Steve Aoki

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: Steve Aoki (June 22, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman sit down with world-renowned DJ, producer, and record label founder Steve Aoki. The episode explores Aoki’s eclectic upbringing as the son of legendary Benihana founder Rocky Aoki, his journey from straight-edge punk kid to global dance music superstar, and the philosophies and work ethic that have propelled him to become one of the most celebrated figures in electronic music. Steve shares vulnerable insights into family, identity, creativity, the challenges of relentless touring, and how his punk roots continue to shape his outlook. The conversation is full of warmth, laughter, and compelling anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Steve’s Upbringing and Family Legacy

[03:10 – 16:58]

• Early Life Geography: Steve’s path from LA to Newport Beach, then Vegas and Henderson, NV, largely influenced by his DJ residency and touring schedules.
• Rocky Aoki’s Legend: Steve’s father—a Japanese wrestling champion who immigrated to New York in 1961, started Benihana, and led a larger-than-life, thrill-seeking existence.
• Benihana Origin and Innovation: Story of Benihana’s roots as an “American invention” of Japanese cooking as entertainment, blending showmanship with cuisine.
  • “Japanese people won’t adopt this. They want traditional food. Benihana’s is more American than Japanese.” (Steve, 09:24)
• Rocky’s Publicity Stunts: From offshore powerboat racing, starting a magazine (Genesis), to flying a hot-air balloon across the Pacific—often blending personal passions with promotional tactics.
  • “He was the Evel Knievel of restaurateurs, for sure.” (Dax, 06:08)

2. Family Dynamics & Identity

[12:00 – 18:07]

• Complex Family Web: Rocky fathered seven children with multiple women; Steve reflects on the blended family, closeness, and the dramatic moments (e.g., coma revelation).
• Growing Up as an Outsider: Steve breaks down the experience of being Japanese-American in overwhelmingly white Newport Beach, facing racism, and navigating identity.
  • “You get a real experience feeling left out at the loudest levels.” (Steve, 16:33)
• Cultural Shifts: Comparison of the 1970s–90s attitudes toward Japanese and Asian culture in America vs. today’s greater appreciation and normalization of Japanese culture (anime, Benihana, food).

3. Finding a Voice in Punk and Hardcore

[19:38 – 29:01]

• Adolescent Struggles: Steve describes difficulty making friends and fitting in during school, leading to frequent switching of schools and social isolation.
• Punk Community as Salvation: Discovery of the punk and hardcore scenes (skateboarding, straight edge, zines) as a refuge and creative outlet.
  • “That was the start of my music journey… you could just show up, and it was all doable.” (Steve, 25:01)
• DIY Culture: Zine-making, running underground shows, the ethos of accessibility and participation in punk.
• Illegal but Harmless Fun: Steve and Dax swap stories about sneaking into movie theaters—bonding over DIY rule-bending.

4. Academic Track vs. Music Career

[32:55 – 44:33]

• College Life at UCSB: Steve reflects on barely getting into UCSB, joining the vibrant Isla Vista scene, and the crucial role of the local hardcore label Ebullition.
• Dim Mak Label Founding: Inspired by Bruce Lee (Dim Mak = “death touch”), Steve starts his independent label as an extension of his underground activities.
• Sliding Doors Moment: Faced with pursuing a PhD in Academia vs. focusing on music—ultimately choosing music after the opportunity to work with the band The Kills.
  • “Because she gave me the co-sign, I’m just going to do the music thing.” (Steve, 44:34)

5. Rise of Dim Mak and Transition to Electronic Music

[44:33 – 54:44]

• Expanding in LA: Steve’s label grows in prominence, with early success from bands like Pretty Girls Make Graves, The Kills, and Block Party.
• DJ Genesis: Learning to DJ through collecting and spinning vinyl at LA clubs, inspired by James Murphy’s LCD Soundsystem ("Losing My Edge").
  • “When I heard LCD Soundsystem... I'm the artist now." (Steve, 52:27)
• Remix Culture: Remixing as Steve’s entry into the electronic world, leveraging label access to stems, collaborating with early-career Diplo.

6. Major Success, Touring, and The DJ Life

[55:14 – 66:13]

• Breakout Years and Scale: First Coachella gig (2007), building “insane” LA parties (hosting future stars like Lady Gaga, Kid Cudi).
• Insane Tour Schedule: Performing nearly 200-300 shows a year, earning the label “the most traveled musician in a calendar year.”
  • “I was happy to fly eco, middle back seat. This is better than in a van with four sweaty guys…” (Steve, 61:13)
• Punk Roots Influence: Steve credits his punk DIY touring experience for his relentless work ethic and resilience in the high-pressure DJ circuit.
• Signature Stage Antics: Stunts, crowd-surfing, starting the now legendary tradition of caking fans at shows.
  • "The cakes are definitely for people that don't understand it... but it's a signature.” (Steve, 64:55)

7. Personal Growth, Sobriety, and Resilience

[66:09 – 73:16]

• Navigating the Drug-heavy Scene: Steve’s straight edge background made him resistant to the prevalent party culture (“No MDMA, no coke”), with a single negative LSD trip ending his drug experimentation.
  • “That scared me away from all drugs.” (Steve, 66:47)
• Entrepreneurial Curiosity: Ventures into esports, gaming, and innovative business side projects as extensions of his varied interests.
• Father’s Passing and Words of Affirmation: Rocky’s death in 2008—Steve cherishes the validation received before his passing.
  • “I don’t have to worry about you anymore.” (Rocky to Steve, 68:08)

8. Family, Legacy, and Looking Forward

[69:03 – 73:10]

• Becoming a Father: Steve’s excitement for new parenthood, his son Rocky, and how this new responsibility may reshape his life.
• Balancing Touring and Family: Contemplation of the challenges of fatherhood given a nomadic DJ’s schedule.
• Focus on Longevity and Health: Steve’s investment in regenerative brain research and reflections on aging as a touring musician.

9. Philosophy on Creativity and Career

[71:00 – 73:16]

• Creativity as a Lifelong Challenge: Festivals and residencies force Steve to keep evolving, staying current with new music.
  • “That schedule is important to me. That challenge.” (Steve, 71:14)
• Gratitude & Hard Work: Humility about his improbable journey; emphasizing joy and fighting for place in an ever-evolving scene.
  • “The gratitude, when you're fighting for it for so long, and then you finally get there… you gotta remember, the second you don't think it's that important to you, someone else does.” (Steve, 73:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rocky Aoki’s Showmanship:

  • “He was the Mickey Mouse of Benihana.” (Dax, 10:49)
  • “He was like a Colonel Sanders.” (Steve, 10:52)

• DIY Punk Roots:

  • “The cool thing about punk music – you go to a show and think, ‘In a few months, I could do this…’” (Dax, 24:23)
  • “It allows you to feel like you can become something.” (Steve, 25:22)

• On DJing as an Outgrowth of Punk:

  • “Beats have the same appeal that punk did in that… it’s very accessible. It’s all very DIY, kind of weirdly similar.” (Dax, 51:18)

• Career Turning Points:

  • “Because she gave me the co-sign... I’m just going to do the music thing.” (Steve, 44:34)

• On Recognition and the Grammys:

  • “It’s like, how did I get here? I’m not supposed to be here.” (Steve, 63:03)

• On Stage Presence & Joy:

  • “I thrive there. I live for it. I love it.” (Steve, 70:51)

• On Parental Approval:

  • “I don’t have to worry about you anymore.” (Rocky to Steve, 68:08)
  • “That was big for me.” (Steve, 68:15)

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Important Timestamps

• [03:10] – Steve’s home base, travel and residency in Vegas
• [05:34] – Benihana history & Rocky’s colorful life
• [21:26] – Early school struggles and outsider experience
• [25:01] – Punk’s influence, zine culture, and genesis of music career
• [32:55] – Academic aspirations vs. founding Dim Mak
• [47:35] – Record collecting and first DJ gigs
• [52:27] – Electronic music inspiration (LCD Soundsystem)
• [55:14] – Scaling up: Coachella, parties, touring, and crowd size
• [64:55] – Signature cake-throwing at live shows
• [66:13] – Navigating drugs and alcohol in the scene
• [68:08] – Rocky’s last affirmation to Steve
• [71:14] – Creativity, festival culture, and continuous reinvention
• [73:26] – 30th anniversary of Dim Mak

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Episode Tone and Energy

The episode is full of playful banter, laughter, and an authentic, celebratory tone. Both Dax and Steve are candid about their failures, their families, and the weird, often joyous path from outsiderdom to success. There’s a persistent theme of gratitude and humility, but also of creative independence and a punk-rooted suspicion of the mainstream—even as Steve himself becomes a mainstream icon.

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For Listeners

Even if you know little about DJ culture, this episode offers a rich tapestry of personal history, American cultural shifts, and the universality of carving out an identity in creative work. Steve Aoki’s story is as much about reinvention, family legacy, and finding joy in hard work as it is about music, making this a must-listen for fans of resilience, creativity, and the messiness of being human.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Today we have one of the biggest DJs to ever live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Steve Aoki. He is a Grammy nominated DJ and record producer. His albums are Neon Future, Wonderland Colony with a K. Like Krispy Kremes.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Quantum Beats.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

And he's celebrating, as he should, the 30th anniversary of his record label, Dim Mock.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And guys, if you're like me and you think, well, I'm not terribly interested in DJing, it doesn't matter. Steve is such a fascinating guy.

[B]

What an incredible story. He has work ethic. The whole thing is just a fun ride.

[A]

Legendary father. Such a good episode. I really loved him. I think you're going to please enjoy Steve Aoki. We are supported by Quince. Every summer I realize I become a real creature of habit. I end up reaching for the same few things over and over.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

Church.

[A]

From Henderson.

[C]

From Henderson? Yeah.

[A]

My father in law lives in Henderson.

[C]

Oh, yeah. It's surprising how many people I know say they have someone in Henderson. You know, they call it Hender Tucky.

[A]

That was a common thing in Michigan too. Like, people would deride Taylor, Michigan. They called it Taylor Tuckee. There are a lot of, like, you really just gotta feel bad for Kentucky. Kentucky. They're getting used as a punchline in all these other cities.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How long have you lived in Henderson?

[C]

I from la.

[A]

Newport.

[C]

Yeah, Newport. Yeah. Senator Barb in la, then moved to Vegas, moved to Henderson, and I bought the house in 2013.

[A]

Okay, so 13 years there.

[C]

Yeah. Then I moved there in like end of 2015. My residency is in Vegas. Okay, residency as in like my DJ residency. So I was playing there every month.

[B]

That makes sense. I was like, why would you go there? But that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's like if you're always working in Hollywood or L. A and you're going to be in L. A, if you're an actor, you know, if you're a DJ. I mean, I have 50 shows a year there, so.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you could live anywhere. How many days do you think you're home a year?

[C]

I do 200 shows a year. 200? Yeah, 200.

[A]

Then you go on vacations and shit. Right?

[C]

Vacation is kind of tour you'll just

[A]

extend on either end of a show, maybe a day. Okay.

[B]

Sounds like you don't really vacation.

[C]

Honestly, the vacation for me is being home.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

Because there's nothing better. I don't care to be on a deserted island or something.

[A]

Yeah. I gotta tell you about the suspicious timing of you coming today. So a month ago, my daughter turned 13 and I was taking her to Disneyland for like the weekend and I said, is there anything special you want to do? And she said, yeah, I want to eat at Benihana. And I'm like, oh my God, that's great. I love Benihana. I'm not even sure how she knew about Benihana. But anyways, we go to Benihana in Anaheim, right? And I'm looking at the wall inside of Benihana and I'm like, hold on a second. Fucking Benihana was sponsoring offshore race boats.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'M super into boats and all racing. So I was mesmerized by these photos of the Benihana racing boat. And I was like, that's such a weird thing for them to sponsor as a restaurant. And then I'm fucking reading about Steve today. His father is Rocky. Aoki started Benihana and raised. Sorry, I said Aoki. I didn't say your last name. Right.

[C]

Is the American way. Okay. I mean, if you're in Japan is Aoki. If you're in Mexico, it's Aoki. If you're in. In England, it's Aoki.

[B]

Okay, so we can get away with a.

[A]

But we got to do. First of all, what was your relationship with your father? Do you like talking about him?

[C]

I love talking about my father. I mean, he's a legend for me. No, he's a legend, but I love to bring up his name because the people that really knew. Yeah. Are older than us. You have to be like 55 and up. And then you knew, you heard about him because he didn't have an impact in the 80s.

[A]

He's crazy.

[C]

Yeah, he was the Evel Knievel of restaurant tours for sure.

[A]

Okay, so let's start. He's from Japan. Yeah, he's from Japan and he was a wrestler there.

[C]

He was a wrestler. He went to the U.S. i think he was wrestling for the Olympics on the Japanese team or something. You know, he's a high level wrestler, came to the United States and then this is where it gets kind of blurry. He came out there for some reason, I think some wrestling thing. Hurt himself, couldn't wrestle for Japan and then stayed in New York. That part I don't know the exact storyline. But he then came to New York.

[A]

Did he speak any English?

[C]

No, no. This 1961. So 1961 he came to New York. It was difficult for Asian immigrants.

[A]

You're in the least friendly city in America not speaking the language. Yeah, I mean, it's gotta be a jail.

[C]

Yeah. Like his book. He does talk about like living in Harle and being broke and trying to figure things out. He had an ice cream truck. He was like, okay, you know what? I'm a wrestler, so I'm going to paint a Japanese restaurant on the side of this ice cream truck.

[A]

See what we get.

[C]

Driver at Harlem, try sell ice cream. And it just didn't really work out.

[B]

What a cool guy.

[A]

And then he was taking classes for restaurant management at some small college. He also won like a flyweight wrestling division. Like, he also was a really successful wrestler.

[C]

And Then he was like, let's start this restaurant idea. And his father, my grandfather had the original Benihanas was in Japan. Oh, it was, yeah. Benihana means it's a flower. Basically named it after a flower that grew outside of the rubble of post World War II.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Next to his cafe. And it's like this resilient flower, this red flower. It just grows through anything and. Okay, well, it's called. It wasn't a restaurant, the Cafe Benihana.

[A]

And it wasn't like hibachi grilled. No. No cafe.

[C]

Like a small, humble caf? Cafe. And grandfather really helped him. He brought the chefs over. He brought the hibachi grills over.

[A]

It starts with four grills. Right. In a restaurant.

[C]

And the idea to like, cook in front of people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

That's actually, interestingly enough, that's not a Japanese concept.

[A]

They don't do that there.

[C]

They don't do that. So that's very much an American born concept.

[A]

Where did he get that idea?

[C]

I don't know where he got the idea.

[A]

He's a showman of some sort.

[C]

Because no one really did that. There's no invention. It's not like he invented it, but like, definitely founded this idea of entertainment.

[A]

Entertainment already conceptually, out of the gates, there's problems. You cannot have huge turnover in concept. I can see someone going, well, how's this going to work? You only have four tables and they got to cook at the table, so they can't be cooking for other people

[C]

on top of that. Japanese food in the 60s, they only serve Japanese people. Yeah. Like the little, like immigrant cultures. Right. So you. If you want to eat Chinese food, you have to go to Chinatown and you're going to be eating with Chinese people. It's not made for Westerners.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[C]

So when they opened Benihana, they opened in like a western white New York,

[A]

56th street or something like that.

[C]

Yeah, 56. So my father was thinking was like, well, I want to try to break this open. Yeah. To Americans, not to Japanese people. This isn't a Japanese concept. Japanese people won't adopt this.

[A]

They don't.

[C]

They don't like, they want traditional Japanese food. It's not Benihana's.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So it was struggling because it was a completely foreign concept.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it almost didn't work.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

The first phase of it was almost a complete failure up until this one New York Times writer back in the

[A]

days when you could make a restaurant

[C]

with one review from one review. Oh, and she came in and ate there and was blown away. And then she wrote this incredible review. And then business picked up and sustainable. Yeah.

[A]

And when did he start franchising it and building it out?

[C]

This is 1964. He started it, I think in the 70s. It just took off.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

He was privately scaling it out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think it's like late 70s or early 80s is when he went public.

[A]

It was a publicly traded company.

[C]

Yeah. At some point. Went public.

[A]

So he probably got absurdly rich overnight, kind of from that public offering.

[C]

Then he became like an employee of the company. But in the 70s, when it. His company, he's like, okay, I'm gonna do the offshore boat. I'm gonna do all the stuff I want to do.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But I'm just gonna. On the side of the boat.

[A]

So it's all a write up.

[C]

I'm Attack Benny Hana on the side of the hot air balloon.

[A]

His father's the first person to fly a hot air balloon across the Pacific.

[B]

Oh, my God. And it. Did it say Beni Hana on the hot.

[C]

Yeah, it would be like his face on the balloon. Like, the guy was like a marketing mag.

[A]

Yeah, he was the Mickey Mouse of Beni Hana.

[C]

He really. He was. He was like a Colonel Sanders.

[A]

Yeah, Colonel Sanders. Dave Thomas from Wendy's.

[C]

He definitely marketed himself really well. And he was never afraid to be in front of a microphone. Never afraid to talk to people, never afraid to be in an interview. Yeah.

[B]

How inspiring.

[C]

Yeah. And for Japanese people, which are known to be more like, keep your head down, don't make a ruckus, don't make noise. He was a complete opposite. He adopted, like, this American mindset of showmanship. Very incredible story.

[A]

So what he was doing, I mean, he's a thrill seeker. This whole hot air balloon across the Pacific's nuts. The fact that no one had done it. And he does that. And then the offshore racing was serious. Like, he almost died in San Francisco under the Golden Gate Bridge. He started a porno magazine.

[C]

He did. Yeah. So he did. He started a Genesis magazine. Actually sold to Larry Flynt. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. 40 years. This magazine was around.

[C]

Yeah. He had a club.

[A]

He was trying to be like, Japanese. Hugh Hefner.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was married to my mom, but then had a whole other family.

[A]

There's a quote from him saying he had three children from three different women at the exact same time.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Yeah. So there's that story too.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Didn't age right, but in the 70s, that was great.

[B]

That type of person without that type of.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, he kind of did it all. It was like a no rules. I'm just gonna do whatever I want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have like a million brothers and sisters that you do or don't know.

[C]

There's seven siblings from my father's side, and honestly, we're all very close.

[B]

Oh, that's lovely.

[C]

Yeah. So we'll do family get togethers with all of us now we're in our 40s, soon to be 50s.

[A]

Let's figure,

[C]

Thank God, music keeps me young and hard and my longevity and stuff like that is important.

[A]

What a character. And how present was he? I mean, he sounds very busy. He had a lot of going on.

[C]

He was definitely present, though.

[A]

He was. So when they go public, he's got some cash. He's like, let's go live it up in Newport.

[C]

The crazy part of the story is. And this is very public.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Is that he had a major boat accident, came out of a coma, and that's when he woke up. To my mom on one side and to his girlfriend.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I don't know if I was born yet, so I think mom and my older brother and sister and his girlfriend and my brother, my half brother, her son.

[A]

News to your mom or she already listened to this. Oh, shit, dude. This is out of a movie. You wake out of coma and all your secrets are revealed. He's just like, I want to go

[B]

back into my coma now, please.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I would have been like.

[C]

Like, oh, I wish I died.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, this is pre social.

[A]

Everyone's life was a fucking mess, but no one knew.

[C]

Eventually my mom did divorce and then she moved from Miami where I was born.

[A]

Great boat racing down there. You got to be in Miami.

[C]

Yeah. And also Benihana headquarters. Moved to Florida.

[B]

Oh, okay, so you moved.

[C]

I was one. So my mom moved to Newport and then I grew up in Newport, wasn't born there, but really I'm a Newport born and not born. Like, raised there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Until 17.

[A]

Yeah. So did he stay in Florida? Like, how often were you seeing him?

[C]

He had a place in Florida. He was really New York. He could not leave New York. He was a New York guy.

[A]

It sounds like his arousal template. What? He needed to be alive. He could only exist in New York.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Florida's just like, he needs a lot of stimulus.

[C]

He's not a Freudian. He is not a Floridian. He is a New Yorker through and through. He had a brownstone when he was living on 63rd for this last part of his life, but he was in New Jersey 30 minutes outside of New York City. When I was young, that's where I would go visit.

[A]

You would go visit him in the summer in Englewood.

[C]

And that's where you can get acres of land and a big house. I was surprised. I don't think the house was that extraordinarily expensive in the 80s. It's a different price point.

[A]

Probably a $380,000 house.

[C]

It was something ridiculous, like less than a million dollars. And you have all this acres, you have 10 square of big Victorian style house. Kind of creepy. Not something I was excited to be in at night, you know, scary, ghosty.

[A]

Now, I know you love Bruce Lee. There's weird parallels here. Bruce Lee was breaking the mold. He was this sexy dude. He was in San Francisco being cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And in the 60s, right?

[C]

Yeah, I guess so. Right. 60s because he passed away in 77, I think.

[A]

Okay. Your d never met him by chance, did he? Running in these fun circles, you know,

[C]

he met a lot of people. He loved being out, so he's definitely extrovert, socialite guy.

[A]

Is he a drinker?

[C]

Not so much.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[C]

Not so much. Yeah. My grandfather was a drinker, my father wasn't. He had a whole book on sake and stuff like that. You know, it's a connoisseur of Japanese food. But I never actually experienced him drunk, so I never saw him drunk.

[A]

Yeah, from a child of the 70s.

[B]

Well, he was getting high on other things, clearly, like.

[A]

Yeah, 36 foot wave.

[C]

He got his dopamine on life for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He is friends with a lot of people in the art world, the club world.

[A]

He also needs to be said, he visibly looks like a stud. You can tell this is a dude who wrestled like he is a stud.

[C]

I mean, he's stocky, short. He's a perfect wrestler type because he's not tall and lanky and good luck with it. It's hard to take him down.

[A]

Okay, so in Newport 78 onward. I mean, for people who haven't been to Newport, it is like blonde chads who go surfing and skateboarding and it just couldn' be whiter and blonder.

[C]

I always joke about this because my mom, who is through and through a very Japanese immigrant, speaks broken English, moved to the widest neighborhood in Orange county when 10 minutes away, this Irvine, it's like majority is. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

She could have been in Umbra. She could have been, yeah, Numerous, literally nice enclaves away.

[C]

It's like she could be in a Japanese community.

[A]

She could have spoke Japanese all day. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

But she Moved to Newport. We always kind of laugh about that. You know, in the end, I'm glad that she did do that for me, because being a fish out of water in many cases when you're younger, you know, it's just different, you know, being an immigrant, very different life than when you're an adult. You get a real experience racism or you get a real experience feeling left out at the loudest levels.

[A]

Yeah. At your most insecure, you know who you are.

[C]

And then you're also so impressionable. You're so vulnerable, you're so, like, emotional. You're so confused.

[A]

There's multiple factors. A, you've gotten older and you've found success and status. That's going to change what you deal with. But also, just being Japanese in 1978 versus now is a much different thing in the U.S. yeah, definitely.

[C]

You know, with social media is almost like an educational tool for so many kids just to go like, oh, yeah, I shouldn't say that.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like, the social norms are, if I do that, I will get canceled. So therefore I should not do that.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Back then there was like, no. Oh, the social norm to not do this.

[A]

Also, we got a really big education on Japan in the early 90s when Japan was really rising to economic dominance. And there were now movies about it. Some of the culture was coming in this direction. I also just think the general understanding,

[C]

there's the kids now that love anime and manga and Japanese cultural stuff. That's like, cool.

[B]

And the food, everyone eats Japanese food.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Everyone's been to fucking Benihana. Your father is like, your father's weirdly part of that movement.

[C]

Cool. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, he miseducated us. I was like, cool. This is how they cook in Japan, everywhere.

[C]

That's another funny thing, is that Benihana is more American than Japanese and people don't realize it. The cooking, the showmanship, the hats. That's a French style hat, right? Yeah. So there's a lot of interesting things that my grandfather was like, oh, we want the red French style hats because they're louder.

[A]

They catch shrimp better when you flick it in the air.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

But it's smart because he was trying to get Americans in, so he has to visually make it appealing to Americans. You don't want to push them away. If they walk in, they're like, I don't know. I don't recognize anything in here. I'm leaving.

[A]

The only offering was the food, and it was good. I love Beni Hana. But if that was the only offering, it's not becoming some big national sensation.

[C]

Just going back to what you were saying about your daughter's like, it's a birthday thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's like every kid's birthday spot. Okay. It's my birthday. It's new. Betty. It's just kind of like. Like part of normal conversation now when you're a kid.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

It's cool that it's become that. I forgot what the statistic is. I used to work at Beni Hana when I was a teenager. I think it's like 70% birthdays or something. Something really? It's like, I. I don't know what the percentage is, fact check, but it's a large percentage.

[A]

Do you get any fluff off of people knowing you are associated with Benihana? Did that provide anything.

[C]

Cultural capital for me coming up as an artist? No.

[A]

No. I mean, as like a kid on the playground.

[C]

12. No. No, not really. No.

[B]

No.

[C]

I mean, my close friends would be like, oh, can we eat a bananas?

[A]

Is it your birthday?

[C]

Yeah, but not. Not really.

[A]

So how did you do in elementary and in middle school and how'd you find your way?

[C]

Like when I grew up, when I was first through fourth, fifth grade for a period of time, I was one of three boys in my class.

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

Usually that's a good thing. But like, when you're a kid, if the two guys don't like you, you're kind of screwed. Yeah.

[A]

So in your school, there was in your class. Oh, that's so bizarre. Was it a private school?

[C]

I hopped around because I just could not make friends. So my mom would like, okay, let's try this school. Try the school. I had bad socialization. Like, I could not figure it out.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's be fair.

[B]

It wasn't your fault.

[A]

I don't think it was being offered to you to figure out.

[C]

It was really tough to make friends.

[A]

So what was the inroad like for a lot of kids? It's skateboarding or it's smoking weed or, you know, you find a little niche, you can cement yourself.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So the interesting thing that I saw is that I went to Public and Catholic or Christian. The Catholic and Christian. Private were the most difficult. My grades were the worst. My socialization there was horrible. One thing I recognized, when you're an outsider, the teachers all recognize that and you just get sent to the principal's office all the time.

[A]

Oh, really?

[C]

It's like easy to pick on the guy that everyone doesn't like. There's something wrong with this kid. No. One likes this kid. Okay, just go to the prison. And then I would get spanked and like, oh, back then I would get. Oh, man, it was horrible to spank with the big old holes in the paddle. I just ha.

[A]

Oh, that's brutal.

[C]

And my mom would have to pull me out. I was, like, failing in these classes. And I loved being in public schools in Newport because also, public schools in Newport is going to be different than other places too. But it was still pretty brutal.

[A]

Sometimes it's the dude who himself got shit on by another echelon of popular kids that decides he's got to find someone to shit on. So you're just going to be next.

[C]

My mom put me in school early.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[C]

So I was one year younger.

[A]

No, that's the moon.

[C]

Physically smaller. And that doesn't help.

[A]

Would you ever. I was curious when I was learning about your dad, I was thinking of kind of the pressure when you have a dad like that. I don't even know. But if you ever shared with your father the challenges, I would assume his response would be like, yeah, get tough like I did.

[C]

You know, it's interesting. I never, ever shared that stuff with him.

[A]

You didn't?

[C]

Because he's not one to listen to that. He always wants to hear the good things, so I'd always have to tell him the good things. I would never tell him the bad things ever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I would never, like, complain to him. One of the things I learned growing up, let's say, like, got hurt. I think I went to the hospital. The first thing I would hear from my dad when I see him, I had to pay for that. Like, stop getting hurt.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

Okay. Like, why are you always going to the hospital? What's wrong? You're not hurt. You can't really say the bad stuff. I always want to try to impress him. I think with him, he has a lot of kids, so we're always trying to compete for his attention. Even, you know, when we were like, children to adolescent to, like, adults. My late 20s, when I finally was, like, I actually making money on my own.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And I wanted to share that with him immediately.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Of course. Your siblings were older.

[C]

I'm kind of in the middle. But from my mom.

[A]

Yeah, from your mom you were living with.

[C]

I felt like a only child because my Mom's kids, they're 10 and 11. Oh. Years old.

[A]

Way older than you.

[C]

So by the time I was 8, they were already out of the house.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So from 8 to 17, I was like a only Child there who welcomed

[A]

you in in high school, like, what ended up being your niche?

[C]

Like you said, skateboarding and punk and hardcore music.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And that changed my life.

[B]

Saved your life, maybe.

[C]

Yeah. It really was like 13, 14 year old age. That's when the clay gets molded.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

My son's nine months. When he's 10, 11, 12. I'm gonna make sure that, like, we set him in a really good clay molding, because that's a really important age.

[A]

Well, you start becoming aware of, oh, people have identities. I've got to pick one.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And what one feels natural to me. Which one will I be accepted in?

[C]

Most of the time it's sports.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Right.

[A]

If you're not a jock, you're like, all right, Yeah. I tried the sports.

[C]

I tried all that. It wasn't working. And then it's always peers. Peers have so much influence.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

So when I went with these kids to a show, we're skating and going to shows, that's all we did.

[A]

That was my life.

[C]

Yeah. And then you see other kids, like, they're your age, and they're, like, screaming around and, like, thrashing guitars, and they're like, not on a stage. They're right here.

[A]

They also have all been on in school, so there's like a beautiful bonding.

[C]

And they're singing about it. Yes. I relate to all this stuff.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I am that same kid up there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You're like, the barrier of entry to be that kid is actually right there.

[A]

And they're not that good. That's another thing I try to tell. Yes. The great thing about punk music is, like, you go to a show and you're like, I don't know. I think in a few months, I'd be able to play drums as good as this guy. That's what I did.

[C]

Exactly. That's why I love punk. Because then I was like, I don't know how to sing. I don't know how to play any instruments. My friends that we were going were like, we don't know. Let's just figure it out. We know a guy knows how to play drums. That's the most important guy you need because that's the most technically skilled thing that you need to have as a drummer that knows how to keep a beat.

[A]

Deep time. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And we found a drummer. And, hey, we'll bring him to the shows and get him inspired. I'm like, can we try to do this in your garage?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And he lived up the street for me. And then I Would just go there after school every day and practice and learn how to play bass, guitar, drums. And I was, like, singing. I didn't know how to say. I was like, we're just fucking around. That was the start of my music journey. And it's like this rough and tumble. Like, you could just show up. Yeah, yeah. Wake up out of bed and whatever, and then just do it. That's the cool thing.

[A]

To care would be uncool. You're buffeted from any failure.

[C]

It's such a great entry point for creativity. It allows you to. To feel like you can become something. And then when I did that with my friends, we were, like, messing around, and we're, like, playing in living rooms, which was a start. Then everything opened up this idea, like, I think I can do it all. Whatever is exciting to me. Then we started writing in a zine. We go with my friends, the Kinkos, Making a little poetry and cutting up little fun, like, you know, ransom note letters and making poetry out of them. Making zines and passing me out to friends and silkscreen T shirts. Like, everything was like, oh, this is all doable. We could actually make a business doing that kind of stuff.

[A]

Yeah. I think when people. People that were in that culture, they just see a mosh pit, they're like, oh, all these kids are crazy. But it's like, yes, everyone did zines. We all made collages.

[B]

Sorry, what's a zine?

[C]

It's like a handmade magazine that you're making at Kinko's.

[A]

You're like, yeah, you're going up.

[C]

The Kinko's was a spot.

[A]

So, like, you're figuring out how to rip off Kinkos?

[C]

Yeah, I figured that out. I don't know if you remember. Like, they had those big rectangular blocks you stick in there. And the card copy, it's like, 1, 2, 3, right? Yeah, yeah. So you go. You make all your copies, right? So you do, like, a thousand copies, which is a lot of money.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you send a copy, then you take that from the bathroom with it, you smash it, it goes to, like, a million. Then you go to the front, your friend takes, like, the thousand copies, runs out to the store. It's like, I only made, like, 10 coffees. I was doing zines all the way through college. We had a friend, my roommate, he worked there, so he's. I would just bring it to him, and he's like, okay, here's like, five cents.

[A]

We also all had this little device that you would put on a pay phone so you could get free calls. That was like. Everyone in the punk rock world in Detroit had these. When you drop a quarter in there, it makes a noise, and that's actually what puts the credit on the phone. So we all had these little things from Radio Shack, and you'd pick up the thing and you, like, put, like, $3 worth of coins on. Yeah. All kinds of, like, mildly, gently illegal stuff happening. It's so fun.

[C]

Yeah. Another fun illegal activity I did when I was a kid was sneaking in movie theaters. Sure.

[B]

We did all do that.

[C]

That was always fun.

[B]

Yeah. I was always scared.

[C]

That was, like, one of my favorite different.

[A]

Well, you had multiplexes in Newport, so you could probably go in and bang out six movies.

[C]

We love doing that. The way I do it. I don't know if you know if you could talk about this, but it's kind of wholesome.

[A]

It is. Yeah.

[C]

But you go in first of all, in order to get it, you say, like, oh, I left my wallet inside the theater. So they let you in. You go in the theater. Then you go through the back. I had a belt or a shoe. Put the shoe in through the exit door, leave the door open. Then you have to go down a whole flight of stairs. This is at Edward Cinemas in Triangle Square. You go to the bottom where it opens out to the street. And then you let in, like, six of your friends.

[A]

Oh, perfect.

[C]

Then they go. They sit in the seat. Then you go out to the front. They got my wall. Thank you. And then you go around. And then you go around the back. And then. And then once you're in, then you can watch, like, however many moves.

[A]

Just keep it going.

[B]

Okay. Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Let it ride.

[B]

We would just buy one ticket and then see, like, eight. We did pay for one.

[A]

For one. You got buy one, get eight free.

[C]

That would be the solution if you didn't want to pay.

[B]

Yeah. Ex.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Totally. It's less pressure, but more like readiness.

[A]

Yeah. Like you've been sitting on an idea or a project or even just a perspective you care about, and now you're like, maybe this deserves to exist somewhere outside of my own head.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah. And Wabi Wob is not trying to spend 40 hours figuring out web design.

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[C]

I'm surprised, to be honest. I got in. I applied to, like, every UC school. I got rejected to every school.

[A]

You didn't get accepted at UC Santa Cruz cruise?

[C]

Nope. My GPO is 3.1.

[A]

That's pretty good.

[C]

Horrible for UC.

[A]

Well, not for a UC, but in

[C]

general, like UC Santa Barbara. I don't think you can get in now unless you're 4.0 plus plus. Yeah. So I was like, I got in. I think they had to let me into one of the UC schools.

[A]

Just for the listener, I would say. I could imagine. If you're a listener in Milwaukee right now, you're like, the. They wanted diversity, and they wanted you in there. But you should know, in 95 already, all the UCs are already predominantly Asian. They didn't need Asians.

[C]

That's true. In 95, that's still a question in my head, like, how did I get in? I think it's like, it has to be because they had to let me into one UC school because I'm from California.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And they had preferential treatment to California residents.

[A]

You're a little weighted.

[C]

Yeah, I think that's part of it.

[A]

Because I went to UCLA in 98 and at that time it was 39% Asian and 31% white. And there's no way they.

[C]

Yeah, it's not like they needed you.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think that was the case.

[C]

Yeah. I did write in my newspaper thing, I was like, I think affirmative action helped me get into school. But then I was like, but there's so many Asians here.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think so. Here's where you and I could have potentially met in real life, which is. I graduated high school in 93. I went on a road trip for a year with my best friend and we ended up in Isla Vista for like four. For months. Just living in people's dorm rooms and on El Playa at some friend's house, just couch surfing for months. The most mind blowing place imaginable. If you're from Detroit, it's like this college is on an ocean. The first party we went to on our first night there was like these dudes living on a cliff with the ocean in the backyard. An infamous Isla Vista for these insane parties. Right. Halloween is just this enormous party. Tens of thousands of people come. It's a wild, exciting place. I then went back to Detroit and then I moved to Santa Barbara in 95. When you started at UCSB.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

But I was living downtown on Bass street, like right next to the state.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I would go to iv.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Occasionally to get hammered.

[C]

Like there's a house party at every other house. When they designed Isla Vista, I don't think they realized what was coming. Yeah. What kind of chaos.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

You put a bunch of 18 year old kids in bunch of houses on the ocean. Yeah. It's almost like anarchy. You do what you want.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

They're throwing parties every night. I didn't want to leave actually.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[C]

So when I graduated in 2000, I was so embedded in that little world. It's kind of a king of a castle.

[A]

You start this record label.

[C]

Yeah. So I started my label. But really that was a byproduct of being in this hardcore punk world. We would just put on shows in my living room, which was the size of this room here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you were in student housing.

[C]

So the first year I was in student housing and then the next year I lived in a vegan in co op. Typical for a straight edge hardcore kid. Okay, okay, I'm vegan. And you're not drinking yeah, that's another interesting dichotomy because I'm living in Al Visa with the party capital, one of the biggest party schools because of Isle of Vista in the United States. And I'm straight edge, like, no drugs, no drinking. But there's a really small but strong and present Trish hardcore scene in I love this as Santa Barbara that the whole hardcore community knew about.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[C]

Mainly because of this label, zine distribution company called Ebullition Heart Attack. They're publishing their zine from there and they had a record label that was putting out all those kinds of bands from there. So when I went to school there, I was more excited to be close to this label than to be going to school at ucsb. Actually, that was the most excited kid in me. I was like, I want to intern for them. And I ended up writing for the zine for seven years.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Everything for free. And you would never wish to get paid because you care so deeply about this. And I just wanted to contribute, like helping put on the shows and writing reviews for the bands and eventually starting my label, which requires no capital, by the way. That's the interesting thing.

[A]

Most people think it's called Dim Mac.

[C]

Yeah. Dim Mac.

[A]

And how's that related to Bruce Lee? I know it's a nod somehow.

[C]

Yeah. When I was coming up with this label idea, I'm like, what is that thing that represents me in a, like, symbolic way? That's cool. I love Bruce Lee. So I was like, oh, Dim Mock is a child. Chinese death touch. It's like a martial art move where you touch someone. It's like a mysterious thing.

[A]

And they can die, like, two days later.

[C]

Yeah, sometimes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But Bruce Lee is, like, known to harness it, and he mysteriously died of a brain hemorrhage. So some may say he was killed by it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I was like, there's like that mystery. I'm like, that's cool.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

By the way, did you ever buckle? Because I just tell you, my best friend Aaron and I, we lived in a punk house. This band, Current, that was huge in Detroit.

[C]

I love Current.

[A]

You know Current?

[C]

I love Current.

[A]

My cousin Justin was the bass player. I love Current. Yeah. The great, greatest.

[C]

Wow. Council Records.

[A]

Yeah, Council Records.

[C]

Ottawa Jihad.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

That was my world. That's the real screamo. Emo. Yes.

[A]

Pre Emo.

[C]

Yeah. Because people, when they think about emo, they think about, you know, the produced Emo. Yeah. Sunny Day Real Estate.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

But like, yeah. The ordination of Aaron. I don't know if you know.

[A]

Oh, yep. Saw them play many times. All these bands stayed at our house. So we're in Detroit, in Dearborn, and I'm living with half. Half the band.

[C]

I love all those bands.

[A]

Yeah, they're the greatest. Right? I never got a jawbreaker. Jawbreaker.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

We could geek out forever.

[C]

We could go down a music tangent.

[A]

Shutter.

[C]

I love Shutter. To think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, at some point, I would love for you to see my vinyl.

[A]

Yeah, I would love to see you too.

[B]

Thanks for that.

[A]

That's very.

[C]

Absolutely love to. Okay. I pick up these records of Constantine Zancati and that era. I love it.

[A]

Aaron and I move into this house. Half the band lives there. Bands are sleeping at our house every single weekend because they're in town playing shows. So just like every great band. And Aaron and I are drinking 40s and eating steaks and everyone else is straight edge and vegan. But over time, we fucked them up and they started drinking, so I think we won. So I'm wondering, did you ever buckle and when did you start drinking? Because that was a big deal back then.

[C]

Oh, yeah, it was. Yeah. So I was straight ash all the way till about 2002.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Last year, before I left Santa Barbara, I was living in another vegan co op called Biko Co Op. And we would put on shows there. This is Post Pickle Patch, where I had 400 bands play in my little apartment there. So anyways, I moved to that house. Guy got kicked out of that apartment.

[A]

Oh, shockingly. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

This band came in town that I was signed on my label called Kill Sadie. They're from Minnesota. Anyways, they came over and like, I was really close with them and those boys got me into drinking.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[C]

I mean, at that point, I'm like, why am I straight at. I'm 21 now, 22 or whatever age I was. I'm like 22. I'm like, like, what am I doing? Questioning everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm not putting X's on my hands. Like, I'm not going to hardcore shows really anymore. I'm like, okay, let's do this.

[A]

Well, you see how fun it is.

[C]

Yeah. And everyone's drinking. They're all my friends. That's like, you know, you have the nice bonding. Yeah, drinking is a bonding thing. This is fun.

[A]

Yeah. I love these guys.

[B]

Why is straight? Is it like you want to keep your clarity? What is it like, why?

[A]

My understanding of it is basically, you have like, the godfather of all of this, the Michael Jackson of punk is Ian McKay, who had minor Threat.

[C]

Absolutely. Discord Records.

[A]

Yeah, Discord Records, which put out all the greatest punk bands, all dc.

[C]

They were the first.

[A]

Like, they had real good musicianship. You would have heard of Fugazi. That was his next band. Fugazi.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so he was very vocal, locally, progressive. He was like into women's rights. He was into living a clean life and he proselytized. And I think it all fell from him. No.

[C]

Yeah, it really did. So, like in the 80s, when minor throttle was around, this is the early 80s, punk music was the opposite.

[A]

It was skinheads and racists.

[C]

Yeah, there's a lot of that, but there's a lot of nihilism. Like, I don't care. I'm gonna get drunk, I'm gonna do lots of drugs and just say, fuck everyone. And there's like this negative energy of like, fuck the world.

[A]

Yeah. Which is all British. That all comes from London.

[C]

Yeah, it's like kind of like really angry energy. And then Ian's like, hey, we could be punk and rebellious against things that are controlling us, but let's have this attitude of the opposite. Unfuck the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Positive mental attitude.

[A]

Help people at shows, someone falls down, help them up. Community, collect.

[C]

Exactly. Then it's like, oh, you could be punk. You could scream, you could go to shows, but you could actually go, I live a drug free life. I don't drink healthy, I don't have sex.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That feel extreme.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. You know, with everything, there's like the extremes. Yes. And then there's a lot of straight edge people that are really into Hare Krishna.

[A]

You know, like Shelter, Best merch ever. Still have a ton of it.

[C]

And I love those bands too. And I was like, oh, I don't even know what Hare Krishna was. But, like, because of the bands, I was like, you've, like, learn about, like, I'm into it. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

And that leads all the way to Jack Antonoff a couple of weeks ago, who we had, which is like, Ben. He's doing shows. He's eight years younger than us or 10 years. Every show has to have a philanthropic component. So it's like, you know, there's a food drive at everyone's. Like, he started a thing that really just kind of carried on even to when Jack was doing it. It was really cool. Okay, so you leave Santa Barbara. Thank God you're drinking now, and then you go to la.

[C]

Yeah, so I moved to la. There was a fork of the road because I was super into academia.

[A]

Yeah. You double majored Sociology and Women's studies.

[C]

Yes. Right. So when you're a sociology women studies major, it's all critical writing and thinking. And then once you get to that fifth year, I was like in school for five years. I just didn't want to leave school.

[A]

And you started early is perfect. You actually finish right on time.

[B]

True.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, it's true. I kept going. I'm like, how do I stay in it? Because now I found my groove. Now I'm hanging with professors. Now I, like, want to get professors respect and have them talk to me like a colleague almost here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Like, okay, now I'm reading the text. I'm having real thoughtful conversations. And those thoughtful conversations are already being had at these hardcore shows. So there's a lot of crowds cross and we're all reading books and talking. It was just cool to be intellectual to talk about stuff. So I was like, this is great. This is aligning with my academia. And then I was like, okay, well, I guess maybe I'll consider staying academia. I sent off for graduate and PhD programs. I accepted the two. And then that's when I had to make a decision because I was like, okay, do I go down this road? Do I follow music?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

At the time, my band or my band bands. I mean, we were playing to like 30 people. It was fun, but it wasn't, like, sustainable. And then I got a demo from a band that was like, interested to get signed or have me release their music.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The singer of the band played at the Pickle Patch, which was my apartment. She was in this really cool band called Discount.

[A]

Don't know Discount?

[C]

Yeah. Discount was from no Idea Records from Florida. I was like, obsessed with Discount. She was on tour with Hot Water Music. It was Discount Hot Water Music and another band. And she's like, I'm just band called the Kills. It's a rock and roll thing. I couldn't believe what I heard on that demo. And I was more like, wow. She just asked me to put out this record. Yeah, I'm just a little guy, but I put out some other bands that kind of showed proof of concept. So I was like, you know what? Because she gave me the co sign and I, like, so inspired by her. I'm just going to do the music thing.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

I think this is what I need to do.

[A]

And the Kills was probably your first really successful.

[C]

It was the second.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Or potentially the third. It's like the first would be Plaken for Stars. That was like dimock7 and then this band called Pretty Girls Make Graves from Seattle, which was one of the members of Kill Sadie that got me drunk.

[A]

Okay, okay, okay.

[C]

Yeah. That band is the reason why the Kills was like, hey, I saw your success with Pretty Girls. Would you consider putting out this ep? And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, exclamation point, exclamation point. I wish I could find this letter because back then there was, like, handwritten letters. So it's just interesting time. 2002, and then I moved to LA. I said, I'm just going to do the label. I'll do the academic route. Maybe later you can be there waiting for me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you could resume that.

[C]

Yeah. So then I moved to L. A. And then I was like, well, it's definitely the best place for me to start Dimac. This is the music hub of America. I mean, in my mind, well, you

[A]

got Capitol Records, you got Warner Brothers. I mean, you really. Historically, this is where all the big labels are.

[C]

Yeah. And then I moved to L. A and then I already got hit up by major labels. Smart. Major label. A and R scouts are always looking for other ones in the underground that are scouts, which are indie labels.

[A]

Okay. So they're tracking all.

[C]

Yeah. They want to incubate their bands with indie labels. I'm like, free dinners, free lunches, I'm in. And so I started hanging out with Capital Group and Interscope and all the different labels. And I was like, trying to get a swing of things in la. It's already kind of, like, buzzing. And then the next band, once I moved to la, this is even before I was really dj' so probably coincidentally at the same time. But I was just kind of just playing here. And there was a band called Block Party from.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And once again, the same kind of thing happened with Alison from the Kills, the manager. Block Party is like, we saw you doing some really great work with the Kills. We would love for you to consider releasing our in.

[A]

Block Party is way more electronic.

[C]

Yeah. There are British indie rock 2000s, like Franz Ferdinand, pre Arctic Monkeys, that kind of British rock invasion that was happening in the U.S. okay. But they're one of the earlier ones because we got their first demo in 2003. And that's right when I started DJing.

[A]

All right, so how do we start DJing? You're just. You get some equipment because you're bored and you start with it.

[C]

Yeah. So when I moved to la, I was doing the label full on. When I thought of turntables, I had a record player Right, right. People don't realize there's two different things.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Turntables are the ones you like, go backwards and forwards and scratch.

[A]

You need a techniques with magnetic drives.

[C]

Yeah. A record player. Boom. You put the needle down and you play a full side.

[A]

Go make a cocktail.

[C]

I had a record player because that's how I listen to music. And a pretty sick vinyl collection. And when I move to la, there's this bartender that became my friend. He was tatted, he was cool, and he definitely welcomed me to la. I remember he's like, I've seen your band. I was in a band called Esperanza as well, another punk band. I used to play guitar and it's like I saw your band play at Headline Records. But the word on the street is you have the sickest vinyl collection, which I do. Yeah, I definitely.

[A]

The aforementioned vinyl collection.

[C]

I'll tell you why I have it. I'm a collector, so I've been collecting since I. I was a kid. And it's not like I had a lot of records, but I always was a completionist. I wanted all the revelation. I want all the discord. I want all, like, the labels I followed. But the thing is, I'm also a hoarder and I'm a known collector in college. So when my friends would leave college, I remember Koji Botanishi, he used to be in Strictly Ballrooms. This other band he left. He's like, I don't know, do with these records. I'm like, give them to me.

[A]

So you are a dumping ground for other people's collections.

[C]

Yeah. I'm like, you could take them back whenever. I will just be a great, you know, steward of a steward. And they're like, yo, Steve will take all your records. It's not like it's like a valuable thing, like expensive thing. It's just heavy and a lot of space.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I just became like the dumping ground of vinyl and I just amassed this insane collection.

[A]

I imagine your apartment being no room to walk. Oh, my God.

[C]

It was. It was like that.

[A]

Just milk crates everywhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so my friend, the bartender of three of clubs, he's like, come to three clubs and bring your records. I'll show you to how to dj. It's very simple. And play whatever you want. And I'm like, I could play hardcore. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

This is amazing.

[A]

Let me get this straight. Me and the bartender will be happy and all the other people will hate it. I'm in.

[C]

He had a night called Sides. And you just play whole sides of records. You just sit there and you play whatever you want. I was a radio DJ at kcsb. I was K Juice, which is like the platform for just the library.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And for the dorms. I didn't make it to KCSB status. I was never good enough. But I was like, oh, this is cool. I get to play records for 30 people drinking beers. And me and. And my friend, I was like, this is awesome. So I started going there and playing. And then he's like, hey, you know, we should just DJ together. And I'm like, yeah, I'm down. And we'll call ourselves the Crybabies. Because he was always thinking of ideas. I mean, Cali DeWitt, if you look him up, he's got an incredible history of la. He ran with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and then he started his own record label. And now he has an incredible fashion line.

[A]

Oh, really?

[C]

Follow.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Yeah. And he designed for Kanye West's Easy collection. Like, he's just a we well known curator, creative director, street kid. Just awesome burst of creative energy. And I didn't end up DJing with him ever.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But my first gig, I have to find the flyer was under DJ Cry. No one really knows this. It wasn't Steve Aoki and it wasn't Kid Millionaire, which I later used as a name. It was DJ Cry.

[A]

How are you spelling cry?

[C]

C, R, Y.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The connection.

[C]

Yeah. And I opened for my friend, this guy, Sam Spiegel, who was of part a producer. I was always in a studio and he was a big part of my early part of my career. He let me open and stuff like that.

[A]

When do you get bit by the electronic bug?

[C]

So this is like 2002 era. Right? When I moved to LA, I was starting to DJ a little bit. There was a record by James Murphy's LCD sound system. He dropped this record called Losing my edge as 118 beats per minute. And it was this loop of a beat and him talking over the beat and he's just talking about the history of dance music. It was hypnotic. When I got that record, I went to Amoeba or wherever I did to get that record. I'd play it. And that was when I was like, wow, I could produce something like this. It's simple enough, it's hypnotic and it grooves and you stay on track with it for a long time.

[A]

Beats have the same appeal that punk did in that, okay, I get an 808. I get these three pieces of equipment. I don't have to know how to read music if I have rhythm. It's very, again, accessible. And even, like the hip hop revolution is like, oh, I don't need expensive instruments. I have these albums. They already have the music on it. It's all very diy. It's kind of weirdly similar.

[C]

Yeah. I remember the beat because the beats like do, do, to do, to do, to do, to do.

[A]

Yeah, very 70s.

[C]

And the bass line just stays there the whole time. And it grows with the vocal and it gets louder with the live drums and stuff. But I'm like, fuck, I think I could do this. And then I was like, okay. I went on Craigslist and I got this guy that can teach me Pro Tools. I was like, I love the Neptunes. I loved that world of music. And I was like, I kind of want to do that. You know, I was kind of figuring out what I wanted to do. You know, I'm a hardcore punk kid, but I love pop music as well. My sister Devin, she was in Fast and Furious. Oh, yeah. She was Suki and Fast and Furious.

[A]

Very attractive.

[C]

And she. And she had a successful modeling career, which led her into some movies and it opened her up into music. So I was going with her in the studio when she was doing more of an R and B thing. And I was trying to learn to do very quick sample beats and sounds to make hip hop beats for myself. Sister. Really?

[A]

That's adorable.

[C]

And then I heard LCD sound system losing my edge. And then that's when I was like,

[A]

I'm the artist now.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

This is where my heart is going. I want to go faster. I don't want to go 90 to 100 bpm. I want to go 118 to 130 bpm. I want to start playing this out. So I have to give a lot to the LCD sound system. James Murphy, what he was doing in New York at the time in the early 2000s, and the party scene, you know, what I was doing with Dimok and the party scene in la.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a wonderful.

[B]

So fun.

[A]

Yes, that was wonderful.

[C]

I was going back and forth.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

So we took more time at the beginning, which I love. That's my favorite. So we are going to have to kind of fast forward a tiny bit and let me own. So whatever I knew about hardcore, I know nothing about electronic and the dance world.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Just quickly. Remixes. You kind of get known for remixes first.

[C]

Right, right, right.

[A]

So you're just kind of mashing up different things.

[C]

Remixes are rem. Remixing is the best way. And this is why I tell every young producer or someone wants to start producing or that someone wants to become a DJ or once again in the world, start with remixes. Because now there's technology that you don't need to ask for the stems. Let's say you listen to a track, stem would be like bass guitar, isolated instruments, isolated vocals. Exactly. And you need the stems in order to do a remix, you know, or change production back then you need the stems. Luckily for me, I had my label and I had the stems for the bands on Dimok. So my very first remix happened to be Block Party because I had the stems. When I was remixing Helicopter, I also called my friend who was on tour with MIA at the time to also remix the other side of the 12 inch because there was no digital back then. You would press the 12 inch and that's how people would hear this. He was also throwing a cool party and I was throwing my LA party. So it's interesting because all around the world there was these little pubs of communities growing where we're playing indie, electronic, underground, hip hop. And we had this cool little thing happening. I was doing in la, he was doing in Philadelphia, someone's doing London, Japan, and that's where we would end up. If I did a show, I would probably play at these underground little hipster parties. So he did the Other side. I did the Other side with my friend Blake Miller. Science. It was his first remix and now he's a very well known DJ and people know him as Diplo.

[A]

Another ding ding, ding. He was at the fight I was at Saturday and I was seated three seats next to us. And I love his body, so let's just be clear. I love his physique, but he was up and down a lot. We had to get up and let Diplo in and out a lot. And that was my first sighting.

[B]

Oh, he said it was tight in there.

[A]

It was tight. I was sitting next to a linebacker and the Diplo was very social, so he was going back and forth. But again, a great physique, so I didn't hate seeing his biceps.

[C]

Yeah, he does work out a lot. It's fun to go back in time and see who's still in the game, you know, And Wes is still crushing it. So good to see that.

[A]

When do you start going on these massive tours and when do you start getting the big audience? I mean, I know by 2012 you're the highest grossing dance artist in North America. I know by 2010 you've recorded with Will. I am now. When do you make that big leap to where you have an audience.

[C]

2007 was a pivotal year for me. That was the first time I played Coachella.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Yeah. So that was big. It was a horrible show.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[C]

Sometimes, yeah. It was nerve wracking. It's like kind of thing you just want to throw up after a set because it was so bad.

[B]

Just because it went wrong or people didn't like it.

[C]

Oh, many times.

[A]

Oh, technical difficulties or you just weren't on your game.

[C]

I wasn't on my game. I was nervous. The wind blew the needle off the record.

[B]

Wind seems to be an issue.

[A]

They don't tell you about the wind.

[C]

The wind blew the needle and went, oh. And then the music stops. I'm like, sorry, There's a crowd going. Who are you? Like, I don't even know.

[A]

You are.

[C]

You suck.

[A]

I'm on four hits of E and now I'm miserable. How'd you make that happen there?

[C]

They still booked me again. I was surprised, but by 2007, I had the most insane party in LA. We had Lady Gaga's first show. We had a lot of pop artists for a show, a lot of underground hip hop. Like Kid Cudi's first show. Kanye was rolling through at the time.

[A]

What venue are you hosting this at?

[C]

A space right on Hollywood Boulevard, which is very small, but we had the best underground shows. And then at the same time, I formed another elite with one of my best friends at the time, DJ am, and we had another party.

[A]

I was curious. I was friends with Adam as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Sweet. So we were like running LA's hipster underground rock, electronic hip hop. Anyone that was about to blow up, they had to play at one of these DIMAC parties. I was just getting booked because of that. Not necessarily because of my songs. I only had a few songs. I was like the guy that had a cool scene.

[B]

Like your dad.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, it also goes back.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It's similar and different. Yeah. And then 2007, I mean, I. I think I was already doing like 300 shows.

[A]

To how big of audiences at that time?

[C]

I don't know. A thousand, Maybe less. I don't know. It wasn't like, crazy, but I was getting paid, like 500 bucks, so it's easy to, like, spend 500 bucks.

[A]

Especially if there's a record store in that town. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And I was playing everywhere.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

I was exposed to this world a little bit through Adam, DJ Am and knowing what he was making on a weekend to fly two cities and play two cities in one weekend. And it was astronomical.

[C]

If you're making 40 grand in a weekend. Oh yeah, like he was making 20 to 30 grand.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Turning him down sometimes because he's getting that consistently. And I'm getting like maybe $1,000, but I'm happy with the value.

[A]

You're playing music.

[C]

I was at one point making $50 and a bar tab, you know, a few years before that. Now I'm making like 500 to $1,500. And then sometimes on like the get like $5,000. This is crazy.

[A]

And you're probably thinking the whole time this has got to be the ceiling.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Right, like $5,000. Yes.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I remember like in 2007, I got booked in the Philippines and they had billboards up of me everywhere. They give me like five grand at that time. I'm getting like 500, $800 at my own party and sometimes a little bit more. 1500, 2000. I'm getting $5,000 in the Philippines and this movie wanted to book me to be a dj. It was like a scene where I was like a slave DJ in this, this guy's office.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

It was Tropic Thunder. No, so like I didn't know. Cuz they don't say the movie title. They don't say who's going to be in the movie. I have the script. It says DJ Aoki on every, you know, because there's like actual physical scripts.

[A]

They're all watermarked.

[C]

Yeah, it was Todd Phillips. He was the one. I think it was still directed it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So they're like, okay, hey, we want you to be the slave DJ for the scene with Tom Cruise where he plays Get Low. Yeah, yeah, he plays the ipod. Thank God he didn't have booking our dj. I was like, when I saw that he didn't book it or DJ and he's an ipod, I was like, yes. They didn't look at it. But anyways, I had this Philippines offer and I couldn't say no to the Philippines offer. So I passed on the movie. To this day I'm like, I wish. It's like, you know, I wish, Mom. It's like I wish I made it in that movie because that would have been so epic to be part it of like one of the funniest movies at that time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But you had to say yes to yeah.

[C]

Because it's a free thing. It's like you get thousand dollars. It's not like about the money, it's about just being in it.

[A]

You couldn't pass up this year.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So Fast forward to 2012. Five years after that. You're the highest grossing now. You're making millions of dollars. Dj yeah. It gets pretty crazy, right? Imagine some of these festivals you're going to are astronomical.

[C]

Yeah. The other thing that's interesting is that I did become the most traveled musician in a calendar year on the planet. So I was touring the most. I didn't realize that I was. But what got me there was being in the punk bands.

[A]

Right. You're just so used to when you're

[C]

in a punk band. First of all, like every single tour I was on, I toured the US 14 times by the time I was 21. We never stayed in a hotel.

[A]

Right, right, right. You're at the other band's house.

[C]

Yeah. You just stay in like friends houses or you sleep in the van or you just figure it out, but you never stay in a hotel. So when I started stay hotels, I was like, I get a hotel, I'll play for free.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. What are you guys talking about?

[C]

I get like a car to pick me up. This is crazy. Touring. You get that boot camp of being in a band and you go from touring alone. Up until 2011, I didn't tour with anyone. I was touring alone and I was happy to fly eco middle back seat. Like, I was like, this is better than me in a van with four sweaty guys, smelly, we haven't showered in too much.

[A]

Bunch of vegans eating too many beans.

[C]

Touring was a cinch for me at that point.

[A]

So 2012, you put out Wonderland, and that's your first solo album. I'm just thrilled I learned this today. I cannot believe you had John Duncan, the guitarist for Exploited, on this album. That's impossible. I saw Exploited when I was 11 years old with my brother. I was fucking terrified. It was the scariest event of my childhood.

[C]

When I think of Exploit, I always think about the COVID with the spiked mohawk.

[A]

Yeah, I wear that shirt all the time. I still have it.

[C]

It said every butt patch of every pun. He was like, that was cool to have that because I wanted to have some echoes from the punk and hardcore world.

[A]

And you got nominated for a Grammy for that album.

[C]

Yeah, I did.

[A]

Have you been able to look back, obviously, 2012, to get that honor, that distinction of being the highest grossing dj? That's a moment. But being at the Grammys from where you started, were you able to, like, be there and be present and accept that that really had happened?

[C]

Yes. The two times that I've been nominated, I went to the Grammys, and it's definitely that moment. I'm like, is this really happening to.

[A]

You're a shithead. From my level.

[C]

Like, this doesn't make sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

How did I.

[A]

And it was everything we were against.

[C]

Yeah. And all of a sudden. You're so true. Yeah. It is so interesting.

[A]

Yeah. To try to integrate that. Like, oh, I'm at the place I made fun of and guess what? I like it here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like, how did I get here? I'm not supposed to be here. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, mix up.

[C]

Yeah. It's a mix of, like, there's something not supposed to happen. Definitely felt that way. For sure. Yeah. I still feel that way sometimes. I'm like, how am I even here? You know, just doing what I love to do. It is hard work when you're doing the work.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

But when you're on stage and you're having the best time of your life, it's not hard work.

[B]

And you're like, wait, I'm getting paid for this?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is crazy.

[A]

Now, when you play shows, how many people are there?

[C]

Well, depends. So, like, the festivals, like, for example, edc, I just played last weekend.

[A]

Okay. Where's that?

[C]

It's in Las Vegas. So that is the largest. I think it's the largest festival in the world. 200,000 now a day.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Three days, 600,000 people.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. So when you're in the pit and you're looking out, how many people are physically right there? Tens of thousands of people.

[C]

I would say minimum, like 60 to 80,000.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

But it's, like, so massive, at some point, you don't know. It's just a sea of people.

[A]

Yes. You're not sure if it's a hundred or forty. Yeah. Anything beyond probably 30,000, all you're looking

[C]

at is, like, just the flagpoles of signs because it's just like, a lot of heads, a lot of little flashing lights and Flag poles of signs, like far as you can possibly see.

[A]

And you do a bunch of crazy shit at your shows. Or at least you used to, right?

[C]

Yeah, I've toned it down a lot.

[A]

You have, because you're getting older.

[B]

He said, don't bring that up.

[A]

Acrobatic crowd work, surfing stunts, throwing cake at fans.

[C]

Cakes are still present.

[A]

They are, yeah. Yeah.

[C]

I had to get arm surgery at one point. But yeah, the cakes are definitely for people that don't understand it. Yeah, it is a signature.

[B]

How did that start?

[C]

It's funny that you asked that. I just posted on my Instagram the first cake video that I done and that was back in 2011.

[B]

Picked up a piece of cake and threw it.

[C]

Well, no, it does require. I had to go to the bakery. I got a video game. Let's film this. I think this will be a funny, cool idea. I have no idea what to expect. This is going to be confusing to a lot of people. Sure. Maybe no one's going to get caked and I'm just going to be holding the cake going, what the hell do I do with this thing? So there's a lot of those questions that arose in the beginning, but now when you do it consistently and you post it up and you're like, that's what this guy does. I'm gonna show up and I wanna get cake. Cause it's my birthday. Right.

[A]

Birthday. Benihana.

[C]

Benihana.

[B]

We just repeat. We're just repeats of our parents.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, look, you have a real run with Wonderland getting nominated then between 2011, 14. Now your stuff's getting licensed. You're liking the Scion commercials. Budweiser. You're in Step Up. All in the movie. You and Diplo have a song in 22 Jump Street I. I don't know DJs and I know your name. You become ubiquitous and one of the titans of this space. It's a very drug heavy space.

[C]

It is, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. How have you navigated that aspect of it?

[C]

Well, the straight edge lifestyle, it did rub off as we talked about, but I never did drugs after that.

[A]

You never got.

[C]

I never did coke, I never did meth or heroin.

[A]

Just some MDMA when appropriate.

[C]

No MDMA as a D dj. Yeah.

[A]

Because most of the audience is on mdma.

[C]

Yeah. No mdma, no acid, no hallucinogenics. Before I was straight edge, I tried one drug and that was acid.

[A]

Oh, that's not a great starter drug. 13.

[C]

And I did it like by myself, trying to be like ballsy and Then I realized I was like, I can't get out of this. How do I get out?

[A]

It's gonna be forever.

[C]

That scared me away from all drugs

[A]

that can take you out, make you a lifelong friend that took me out.

[C]

I was like, I will never touch this again. And still I never did. Now I'm like, in this place some. If it has a healing or it's like a longevity.

[A]

The Michael Pollen approach.

[C]

If there's like some benefit that I could be more creative or something, then I can baby step towards something. So I'm curious.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're kind of like Machine Gun Kelly and he's a volcano of things he is interested in. And starts like, you had or have an esports company. You're into gaming, you're in different video games.

[C]

Right when esports was taking off in the mid-2010s, 16, 17. Anytime I have this interest or curiosity, then it leads me down into a business and then, yeah, I want to figure out, like, how do I get myself involved, monetize or to help provide another mirror into this world?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I want to be a guy. What year did your dad die in?

[C]

2008. Wow.

[A]

Bummer.

[C]

Yeah. He missed a lot of this stuff that I wanted to.

[A]

I wonder what the moment was, would have been if he a. Would have been able to say, like, holy smokes, I think you're more successful than I was.

[C]

He would never. He would never. He would never say that.

[A]

If he would say it, could he say it? Would he be prouder? Would he have that terrible dad thing where it's like they can't be surpassed by their son or their.

[C]

You know what one of the most important things he said to me before he died was I don't have to worry about you anymore. That was big for me.

[A]

It's the subtext is I'm proud of you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Cuz he didn't overly say anything.

[A]

Not a lot. I love you and stuff.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Not really.

[B]

Not his gym, but he was relieved. Like, that's him saying, like, I'm relieved you've done it.

[C]

Yeah. That's why, like, I was always thinking of, like, how do I get him to say that?

[A]

Yeah, you're going to have to win an offshore race boat race.

[C]

I mean, I do have the adrenaline junkie and that spirit of chasing the edge.

[A]

No, dude, you guys are very similar in a lot of ways. You're just not as crazy, modern version. You're not starting a porno mag or having three babies on the same weekend.

[C]

Well, luckily, he was in the cancel culture. I mean that.

[A]

He wouldn't have made it. Yeah, he wouldn't have made it. Okay, my last question is, you had a baby in July.

[C]

I did, yeah. Boy. Rocky. His name is Rocky.

[A]

Oh, yes. Yeah, he's back. Can't wait to take him to Benny Hanover's birthday. Oh, my God. How fun.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When you think about the future, obviously, I don't even need to ask. I'm sure you're just fucking loving. It's so fun, right, Having a little kid.

[C]

Yeah. Because he's that age now where he's laughing a lot, he's alert, he's not aloof. He's not walking yet, so I'm not sure what that'll be. He's crawling, so it's easier to control. Kid contained.

[A]

Now there's a very rough phase from when they learn how to walk till they actually get good at walking. They just want to walk everywhere.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. My house lost stairs and stuff.

[A]

Yeah. You might be shopping for a ranch in the next little while, but obviously you won't be able to tour 200 days a year once that little boy's in school.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know how we're going to navigate that because my wife travels with me everywhere too.

[A]

Right.

[C]

We have a great nanny, though. We have an incredible nanny.

[A]

Yeah. You can do that for the first five years. Then he'll go to school and he'll want to be with his friends and you'll go, I can't take this kid out of his life all the time.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I don't know how to deal with that. I'll also be like my early 50s at the time. Yeah.

[B]

You'll be 50 in a different headspace.

[C]

It's hard for me to like. I've been touring since I was a teenager. Yeah. It's weird. I've never broken below 200, besides Covid. Really? Yeah. 207 was the lowest last year. So it's strange to me to not have a free weekend, for example.

[B]

You don't have to worry too much about that yet.

[A]

You've played all the shows.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

What you haven't done is the. This chunk. If there's something novel left in life, it's that thing, Right?

[C]

Right. No, I'm excited about that chapter. But, man, I love the stage.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I love playing for people. I thrive. I thrive there. Yeah.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

I live for it. I love it.

[A]

Oh, I'M so happy. Because you've been doing it for a long, long time and you haven't burnt out.

[C]

No. And also thing is, is, like, when you play like, festivals, like EDC or Ultra or Tomorrowlander, these festivals, you have to prepare all this new music.

[A]

It forces you to be creative. It puts you on a schedule.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. That schedule is important to me. That challenge.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To maintain my presence of my current music. It's not about, like your last singles. It's not about all the songs that have impacted the culture. It's about. What about now? Do I have a song now that's going to actually matter?

[A]

Yeah. And you'll get to like a standup. You'll get to evaluate that real time. You'll know if it works or not.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

You'll have real time feedback. Real time.

[C]

I love that. That's why Vegas is like my laboratory.

[A]

So do you have a residency currently?

[C]

I do.

[A]

Where at?

[C]

So in Vegas, I do about 50 shows a year there. You play Omnia Hakusan, Top beach, that whole world. But that's great because I'm in Vegas. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I just drive from home and then 150 on average, like.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You're aging slower. That's the only good news.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Time moves just a fraction slower at altitude. So since you're spending so much time at altitud.

[C]

Okay, I didn't know.

[A]

Yeah. Your clock's a little behind ours at sea level.

[C]

That's a good thing. I definitely think about my biological age a lot more than I. Yeah.

[A]

Because you also give a lot of money to regenerative brain research.

[C]

The brain is who we are.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You know, like, you could change your heart out, your liver, your body parts,

[A]

but your brain, you don't want to transplant of that.

[C]

You can't do that. Really. I mean, you can actually. Now with Parkinson's, patients could take a chunk of your brain out. So you're not having to have the jitters and still be who you are. Because your brain's so neuroplastic. Right. So who you are can just move over this side of the brain.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it's like stroke people. They lose their verbal control. They just relocate it to a different part of your brain.

[C]

Yeah, the brain.

[A]

Wild.

[C]

So interesting.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Steve, this has been a delight. I'm really infected by how much you like it.

[B]

You're so passionate about it.

[A]

You so deserve to be here. The fact that you've loved all this

[C]

since a kid, the gratitude when you're fighting for it for so long, and then you finally get there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You got to remember, like, the second you don't think it's that important to you, someone else does, and someone else will take it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then when you're like, oh, I'm back, guys, they're like, no, we already have someone else. It's like, you better fight for that every single time you have the chance.

[A]

This the 30th anniversary of the label?

[C]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. 96. 2026. We survived 30 years as an independent label.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

That's so impressive.

[C]

It's really wild.

[A]

Well, this has been lovely, man. I'm really glad I got to meet you. Yeah.

[C]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Yeah. You deserve all this. I'm thrilled for you. Yeah. Thanks. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Oh. Sometimes water is so delicious.

[B]

Sometimes. Rarely.

[A]

Never. Almost never. For you. I know at least once a day for me where I haven't, and I just go like, oh, thank God this exists.

[B]

It hits.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I feel it hydrating me. It's got a good taste. I know people say it doesn't have a taste, but it does have a taste. It tastes like water.

[B]

It does. That's true.

[A]

It's unmistakable.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

God. Right.

[A]

When you have a sip of water, you know right away, that's water. Could be good or bad water.

[B]

Huh. But you wouldn't. That's interesting.

[A]

We've filed it under no taste, but. But that's not true.

[B]

Interesting. But it doesn't have any of the properties. Right. That taste has, like, umami, salty, whatever the heck sweet.

[A]

I'm gonna take one of my shoes off. I can't possibly take off the left.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Oh, no shit. Now I can't take off the right.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because of the deformities.

[B]

Oh, well, just a little bit. Just like, who cares?

[A]

You know? I'll keep them under the table. That's how I'll handle that. Because I didn't wear socks. I'm in a special outfit because we had a special guest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I. I tried footies.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

They were visible.

[B]

I hate that.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I struggle with this as well.

[A]

I think it's a common struggle.

[B]

And even if you get the ones that are not visible, then it doesn't go up high enough. And then, well, the odds of it

[A]

falling off in your shoe are, like, 80%.

[B]

I know.

[A]

They need to make make it with, like, an adhesive on back or something. But all to say I. I. Because this person's so fashion forward, I was like, well, I can't have socks hanging out. I'm gonna go socks and shoes. Which I never do because my feet sweat real quick. And that's what happened, so.

[B]

Well, let's just see your feet.

[A]

Well, this one is fine. Ish. No, it's got that crazy toenail. Well, yeah, it has the bris on it and. Yeah. And then that disgusting toenail that I have to use a drum.

[B]

I can't really see, so it's fine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's fine. Wow.

[A]

Well, we went to a momentous event.

[B]

We did. We sure did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We went to a graduation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I'm sorry. A culmination.

[A]

A culmination exiting elementary school.

[B]

You know, I rarely. I'm almost never on the side of like, oh, like, why do we have to have a new word for everything? Like, I'm generally like, sure, who cares? Doesn't bother me. I do think it's crazy that we can't call it a graduation.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

I didn't even interpret it as that, but probably. Maybe you're right.

[B]

Well, I don't know.

[A]

I didn't think they put a lot of thought into it. Like, we're not. We don't use that word as much as just. We're calling it this.

[B]

No, I looked it up. It's. You don't call it that because there's no diploma.

[A]

Oh. A culmination is a graduation without a diploma, basically. Like, by the way, they did give them a diploma.

[B]

I know, I know. A graduation, I guess, only counts if it's like, high school or college.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think that's silly. And we can. They can just all be graduation.

[A]

Well, that's what's fun about the experience of having kids in the modern society, which is. It's so different from when I was a kid.

[B]

And then.

[A]

So your knee jerk is like, this must be crazy and silly. Cause my thing is like, no, you got one graduation. It was hugely meaningful. Cause you only got one of them, and you looked forward to it and it was finally done. And that's what I enter it with, going, like, this is silly and indulgent. Why do they got to step up from every grade?

[B]

Yeah, that part I did.

[A]

It's the whole, like, get a trophy for a everything, you know?

[B]

Yes, I do think that's. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

There's some, like, I have some hesitation against it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And then I'm there witnessing it. And I absolutely love it.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And then I go, why do I care? What is, what is it I care about?

[B]

You care about people getting soft and the world getting soft, which I tend to care a little bit about, but not, you know, whatever. We're all on the spectrum.

[A]

It's probably perfectly proportional to our age and generation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like you guys had a little more of that than I had.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And now they have a lot more of that than you had.

[B]

I still eye roll at a lot of the things that are happening now. But yeah, I had a fifth grade graduation and then I try to step

[A]

back and go, like, there's no right or wrong. It's just, they did it that way when I was a kid. Now they're doing it this way. And then if there is some real obvious problem as a result of it, people will notice and they'll write op EDS about it and we'll probably fix it. So what's the big deal? But I do you just, I just bristle, like, what? There's another thing. It's like you've. I, this is what I'm telling myself when I'm objecting to it is like you're setting them up for massive failure in that the world's not going to celebrate them.

[B]

That's how I feel.

[A]

A mediocre job doesn't get a ribbon. You're not going to get a, a, a, a raise or a promotion at work for just being normal. It's misleading. Right? Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then I guess you could quite easily make the argument of, yeah, exactly. That's how life is. So why not give them during childhood when they're innocent and they're carefree, like, why not let them have this experience since they're never going to have it again?

[B]

Yeah. There's just different schools of thought, like on childhood, like my parents school of thought was childhood is to prepare you for adulthood.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's, it's like, it's not there just to be carefree and fun. It's like to learn lessons, to learn things that once you're an adult and you're on your own and you don't have health from us that you can live.

[A]

But the Japanese, they're, they're kind of the opposite. They, they go like, oh, adulthood is rough. It's sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. So they weirdly really protect the childhood as being way more carefree because they know what they're going to have to take on. So it's like, I don't know, they've been Doing it that way there for a very long time. And it's worked out just fine for them. Other than that they're not having kids. Yeah, no, this is something I learned in college. Not my observation.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I was going to say, I was like, I don't, like. I don't think of Japanese children as, like, being like, so effervescent or like running around or be like, they're pretty contained and mellow.

[A]

Well, the typically. Yeah. I haven't been to Japan to even witness how kids are, but I do remember having a class where they were saying specifically, they're not trying to prepare them.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

They're. They're recognizing this is a once in a while lifetime chapter, which is like, no, this is the time to be all these things because you're not going to be able to be all these things.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which, whatever. They're all available.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. But then the event itself.

[B]

Yeah, it was great. So we went, you and Kristen, obviously, and Lincoln and grandparents and me and Anna and Titi. Yeah, we all went and we're going to talk through the whole thing. Okay. So first of all, you have been given a number beforehand. You didn't know what it was, but you gave you a number on a

[A]

purple piece of paper and the number was 24.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So then at the top of the graduation, the principal says, okay, if you were given a number, if you're in this person's class, you'll go to the left and you'll make a line and the middle aisle. Exactly. And then if you're in this person's class. D. It made no sense.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It didn't make sense what she was saying. It was clear everyone was confused.

[A]

I was muddling around with all the parents holding numbers and no one knew where they were supposed to line up or in what order.

[B]

Yes. And. And then she said it again, also confusing. And then you did have allowed clarification. You said, well, there's.

[A]

I raised my hand for a while and she didn't call, follow me.

[B]

Okay. And then you.

[A]

I was like, okay, I gotta. I just. Yeah. So I loudly said, hey, there's a couple middle aisles. Is it the ones running parallel to the stage or these ones perpendicular? Oh, it's the middle.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And then we got clarification on that.

[B]

So, okay, the middle location on that,

[A]

that's the middle aisle. That's great.

[B]

I do think, because it was an auditorium. Yeah, it was. It was with gust. It wasn't exactly the way you just did it.

[A]

Well, I had to Be heard in the back row. Yeah. It was extreme. Extremely assertive.

[B]

It was.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And I was like, you were certainly nervous.

[B]

I got nervous. I did a little bit of sinking down. Because, you know what happens is they see. They see it's you that they look at the group of. They look at your people, obviously, because that's how life works. That's how people work. They're like, oh. And people are laughing and then they're looking. And I was like, oh, my God. It's a lot of attention. A lot of attention.

[A]

I was thanked by all the parents that were in the confused because we were just trying to comply. But I could. I just got that sense were not moving closer to this being lined up the way it's supposed to be. I stand by that. It needed to be sorted out.

[B]

It needed to be sorted out. I agree with you there.

[A]

And a ton of the parents thanked me like this. Like, oh, thank God. You said, I didn't know where the house was. So I was getting tons of validation there. But then I started getting really self conscious. Like, does that principal feel like I just completely interrupted her thing? And then I was planning to go apologize to her after.

[B]

That's nice.

[A]

And so my full intention was to find her and to say, I'm so sorry if that was just disruptive or rude. But she found me. I was like in the middle of talking to the teacher and she came up. She goes, oh, my gosh, thank you so much for. And I was like, oh, thank God. And I go, thank God. I was coming to say I'm sorry if that was disruptive, but she. She did at least express that she was grateful that I got involved. Yeah.

[B]

Right. So anyway, you guys got lined up appropriately and you were one of the lucky ones that got special flower.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Dante handed me a flower stand there with a fl.

[B]

Yeah. It was so cute. Someone. Yeah. And then you sat back down.

[A]

They sang beautiful song.

[B]

They sang such a cute song. What was it?

[A]

And I just. I just thinking on the last fact check, I've come to terms with the fact that Delta's little, which I didn't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I really don't know how I didn't know that. I think this is because her personality is so big.

[B]

Well, also because she's just the person you see every day.

[A]

It was when she went to the dance and I saw these photos and I was like, oh, she's a head shorter than everyone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then at the big singing thing, I'm like trying to find her and she's kind of buried behind tall people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you can see her teeth from a mile away. That's how you find Delta. Her rabbit teeth.

[B]

She just has the biggest smile.

[A]

She has the cutest rabbit teeth that you can see from so far away.

[B]

Yes. And the song was so, so sweet.

[A]

Cry, cry, cry.

[B]

Yeah, everyone's already crying at that point. It just has just begun. And then they did a really, really beautiful thing where at first, I got anxious.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When this was announced was gonna happen.

[A]

You start doing math immediately.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's. The graduation is just two classrooms of

[A]

fifth graders, but so probably like, 80 kids or 70.

[B]

So many.

[C]

Those.

[B]

I didn't realize, like, how many kids are in these classrooms these days. A lot. And then that made me so, like, God, these teachers, you know.

[A]

Oh, my God, they're nurses. You know, it's them and nurses. Nurses. Oh.

[B]

And so for each kid, a teacher spoke about them, like, wrote a little, like, paragraph about them and said it

[A]

out loud as they came up and got their little diploma. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And yeah. So at first, when I hear this is happening, I was like, oh, I did the math.

[A]

I was like, it's gonna take at least a minute to read each one. Probably more.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Then it's like 75 minutes at the quickest version of this.

[B]

Yep. This is. Yeah. The brain starts doing that. And then I was like, okay, but go to her classes first. Not that it even.

[A]

Well, no, I did too. But then I'm like, wait, can't leave. I'm gonna be a dick. So it's almost worse. There's nothing to look forward to.

[B]

That's true. Yeah. So anyway, they say all these beautiful things about these kids, and it really. After the first couple, I was like, oh, my God, this is just so important that they are doing this, because as we know, what teachers say about you sticks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it really sticks. And I was like, each one of these kids gets a moment where they're being told about their, you know, assets

[A]

and, like, moments throughout the year that happened. Did you have. So first round of anxiety was the time?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Second round of anxiety was like, oh, these teachers have to say something unique about each student. How are they. They gonna do it? I would. How's it not gonna become generic?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But fucking hats off to the teachers. It was. Each one was so specific and thoughtful. No one. No one phoned any one of them.

[B]

Yes. They were all you. They were all unique. And I was like, oh, my God, this great. But then I did. I did have some what's it called? Like, mirror Neuron stuff happening. Yeah. With some of the kids. Because I was like, okay. Some of the kids got the teachers to cry.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Over them.

[A]

But I thought in a great turn of events, it wasn't, like, the most popular kids in class. It wasn't like they got double. Like a. They were already really popular. And the teachers crying over it. To me, that wasn't happening.

[B]

I know, but sometimes it was.

[A]

Sometimes. But sometimes they deserve both, I guess.

[B]

Yeah. No, it just. I just know me.

[A]

And I was like, you would be

[B]

noticing that so bad.

[A]

You want your teacher to cry and

[B]

not be able to keep it together at all when they had to say hi to me.

[A]

That is the high bar.

[B]

I just want them to be so sad, devastated, miss me so much.

[A]

Announce their retirement. I can't possibly go on if you're not in my class.

[B]

Yeah. That's what I would have wanted. It would have been what I was striving for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And some people got it, some people didn't. And there was one that was like, I have no idea what's. You have no idea about these kids, obviously, and what's been going on. But there was one that you. Based on the little speech, you could kind of put some pieces together about this kid. And it was. Everyone was crying. It was so moving.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I did think, this person will hopefully never forget this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And make decisions based on that. Based on. No, I'm a leader. I'm. This. I'm a. You know. Oh, it was just so lovely. And of course, Deltas was so, so wonderful.

[A]

Are full and we're crying. Cry more crying.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I felt. I did feel a little dead inside.

[A]

You did?

[B]

Yeah. Because all of you guys were crying so hard and.

[A]

Oh, you felt judged.

[B]

Well, I know I didn't feel judged.

[A]

I didn't even clock whether you were.

[B]

I know. No one was, but I knew I was like, I'm not. Like, really. I was feeling emotional, but I wasn't. I wasn't emoting. Crying. I wasn't crying tears. And then. And then I was like, like, not these people are pretend. Not you. But I was like, some of these people are just performing.

[A]

You know, I thought it crossed my mind that you thought I was performing.

[B]

No, if it's your kid. I mean, I felt. I was like, oh, my God, I cannot believe she's graduating fifth grade. I can't believe she's this old. Look at her. Oh, my God. I mean, I was definitely, like, I had tears in my eyes.

[A]

Eyes in Your mind.

[B]

In my mind's eyes. No. I had tears, but there was no spillage.

[A]

Right. Right. You know, it didn't break the.

[B]

And some people. Not the parents, obviously, but some other people were crying so hard.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That I was like, this isn't real.

[A]

You were calling bullshit. And then.

[B]

I know it was real. It was real. And everyone's on a spectrum of how easily they cry and what they cry. Cry about it, you know? But I felt a little in my head about that.

[A]

Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. It's so great how you can be having multiple experiences at the same time, because I, too, was having, like. I was having, like, three levels of encounters. Engagement with it. A. It's my sweet spot. Right. We know what I'm going to cry about. It's earnestness. It's like. It's earnestness in the face of a cruel world. That's. That always hits me.

[B]

Of course. Yeah.

[A]

It's vulnerability and sweetness in spite of the fact that everyone's terrible and mean.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then there was this little girl that was. Just brought the house down. This little girl with a lot of different developmental stuff going on who graduated fifth grade. And the way she was celebrating, waving her diploma over her head. I was. That girl made me cry, like, five times. And then I just stared at her in the front row swinging her feet. She's so happy. It made me so happy. It's like it's. It was happiness cry.

[B]

I know. I know.

[A]

She's, like, too happy for her to not be crying about it.

[B]

It was beautiful. Yeah. Okay. I had an experience with that beautiful girl as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where I was like, oh, my God, she's so, like. Yeah, she's so happy. But then I was struggling, and the

[C]

girls were so supportive.

[A]

It was not like was in fifth grade. Those kids were, like, separate.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And they were in a room, and you're like, oh, no, stay away.

[B]

I know. It was so. It was so beautiful. But I did have a moment of, like, I felt sad, and then I felt guilty for feeling sad.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I was like, you can't feel sad about this.

[A]

Or what you probably have is fear, which is like, look at this beautiful human being on earth. And earth's not designed for her. How will she do? I know, but look at her. Fucking crushing it.

[B]

I just hope it stays.

[A]

Yeah. But that's what's going on. It's like you immediately care and want to help and protect, and that's what a wonderful part of us that we all Feel that anxiety.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And that's nice. And then I go, we're kind of nice. Most of the time. I think we're terrible. But then. Oh, we're kind of nice. All of us feel this way about this little girl. Right? And that's so wonderful.

[B]

Yeah. She was so, so cute.

[A]

So I had all that stuff going on and I was like, very present for that stuff, but very, very actively as well. I got crazy aware in a very anthropological way. And this will be so dud to you and to everybody, but it took me a minute to figure out why. But ceremonies are often when we most coalesce around what our group values are. These are kind of the moments where. Where we declare group values interesting and like pro social and antisocial. Like it's these rites of passages where we kind of talk about how you should be in the world. And I just got like hyper aware of like, oh, wow. Yeah. Culture's being passed on to them right now. Like it's so concrete right now. Because it starts with a song about having dreams. Have a million dreams. Go get those dreams.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And I was just like, this is so American. Like, this is how the system works. Everyone in here should be dreaming of being spectacular. Right. Which obviously is not reality. Not everyone's gonna be spectacular. And then I was just thinking about how opposite this is probably from the Japanese graduation. That's more collective society. Right. And finding probably how to be a great family member. Whatever. Whatever virtues are reaffirmed in those moments for their express things. So it was like, have a bazillion, you know, dream to the stars. It's just so interesting. Again, I say it was zero judgment.

[B]

Of course there was a moment. I'll never forget it. And of course argued with him at my brother's high school graduation. You know, the valedictorian comes up and says something and salutatorian and is. And it's like, chase your dream. You know, it's all this dream, work

[A]

hard, chase your dream, not work hard.

[B]

You know, like, that part's not really in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even similar here, right? It's like, just go after it and. And be the best you can be. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[A]

Be great, be great. I mean, be great.

[B]

And my dad was like, squirming in his seat. And after he was like, what is this? He was like, why don't people just strive to be mediocre? Ye. He literally said that. He was like.

[A]

Or strive to be content.

[B]

He said mediocre. Which was. I was like, dad.

[A]

Yeah. That's a pejorative in our society.

[B]

Exactly. But he means strive to be safe. Just strive to get some things. You don't have to get all the things you don't have to be the best. Just have enough to, to live a life.

[A]

Try to get enough.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And he really hated that Oompa Loompa

[A]

or the Swedish thing is the right amount.

[B]

Oh, Lucuma or whatever. Yeah, he really. And I like, I was so eye rolly with him. I was like, dad, that is not like, that's not an inspiring message. That's not what you do. And he was like, it should be. And I of course thought that was silly. As someone who was chasing a dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do, as the older I get, agree a little more with it, I think, I mean, it's not really fair for me to say because I did get a lot of the things, things I wanted to get.

[A]

Yeah. There's a certain reality which is like of these 75 kids, all 75 of them can't be president of the United States. It's not going to work out time wise for them. And they're not going to be CEOs and they're not going to be world famous artists. So on some level I start a little judgmental, like, man, do we not set everyone up for total failure? Like when they're not spectacular, which 99.9% of people are not spectacular, then they're just disappointed in themselves. They didn't fulfill this thing that seems so easily everyone should be achieving.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

So I think about that and then I go like, yeah, this is a little messed up. But then I step back even further and I go forget right or wrong. It's like, this is just how it is here. And what's the result? So we have a system and regardless of what the intentions of the system were, whatever results the system produces are what the system creates.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the result is. Yeah, dude, a person came to this country, country from South, South Africa and became the first trillionaire to ever live because he came here.

[B]

Oh, it's wild.

[A]

And every invention, not every damn near every fucking invention happens here. And so it's just the system by which you get this other thing. You can then decide all the way later is it good or bad to be America versus Japan versus Spain versus whatever. I don't know, I kind of think. No, no, I think, well, they're all,

[B]

I don't know, there's merits.

[A]

Yeah. It's just all trade offs. Yeah.

[B]

There's good Things about all the places.

[A]

So I literally, I didn't leave it going like this, we shouldn't do this. I just like, oh, this is how we get this result. And it's really baked in. And this is a very progressive and very self aware school.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

And even they probably haven't consciously thought, oh, we're passing on this culture. It's just, it's just what you do and you do it innately because it was given to you and then you pass it on.

[B]

I know it's hard though, because even though I agree that it, it might be maybe setting us up to all fall short, I also fully bought into that. Yeah, fully. And like I was like, I'm getting what I want. I'm, I'm chasing this crazy dream, I'm gonna do it. I like, you know when you're like young and you, you need like some so embarrassing design wise now, you know, but like you like get like words from like T.J. max. I would, if there was a dream, I'd always get it. Like that was like such a word for me. And it worked. Yeah, like for me it worked. And I don't know.

[A]

System is, is living and breathing because 1% do break through.

[B]

Yeah. And you need to be motivated.

[A]

And we'd rather live in a place where that's possible even if it's not probable. I would.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly.

[A]

Yes. And a lot of people would and then some people wouldn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just all really interesting. And so, yeah, so there was that thing that was being passed and then even the nature of this thing that was beautiful. Everyone gets something, read about them to identify something special about them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's like, yeah, that we all, like, we all need to be special. We all need to be individual. We all need to be uniquely special.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

And we'll figure it out because that's what we want and what we do. And again, I, I, that's not right or wrong. It's just like, oh, I was aware, I was just noticing, oh, now this bit of culture is being passed on. And this bit of culture.

[B]

Well yeah, no, at first, again she said the thing this is going to happen. And then I was like, oh my God, we're going to be here for so long. And then I was also like, oh, I also was like, jesus, like, where

[A]

can't they just write indulgent?

[B]

Exactly. It felt indulgent. And then a part of me was like, can't they just like write it on a paper and give it to Them or something. I was like, but this. Who, like standing in front of everyone while you're hearing nice things about you felt was a little bit like, oh, my God. But then it was happening and I was like, this is a beautiful thing.

[A]

I love it. Yeah. So this is my culture.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's really. It's just funny. Before I had kids, maybe, I don't know, I just sat through all these things and I never really was aware of what was happening during these things.

[B]

And I was just. I just.

[A]

It's like, I know each one's like, I know you're going to be a star in sixth grade or I know you're going to be a man mathematician.

[B]

It's like one of them was like, going to be run for president.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I was really putting myself in the position of being up there and like, what I would have wanted them to say about me and like, what would they have said about me at that age?

[A]

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. What they would say about.

[B]

I know I felt really. I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

I'm thinking naughty boy. But I bet I would have won them over enough. Like, they would. They would def. They would have talked about me being naughty and then said I was really funny. I think.

[B]

Well, there was one boy that. Before the wom. Before. Before the teacher could speak about him, he said, okay, I gotta. I wanna say something. And I was like, this is Dax. But then it was so sweet.

[A]

He wanted to call out a dude that works in the office.

[B]

Yes, it was so sweet. Cause at first I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, this kid is way too confident. Who's he thinking? He's. Everyone has come up and played their

[B]

part and he has to do something different.

[A]

He's like, no, no, stop, stop. I need to say something. And you're like, well, what's this tall poppy doing?

[B]

Exactly. But.

[A]

And then it was selfless.

[B]

I know, what a gangster. It was great. But it took a turn because I was like, oh, no. And then I was like, this is just like Dax. But then it was sweet. And I was like, I guess it is like him. I guess that is part of it.

[A]

It was neat. I really. I really enjoyed watching and then participate in my culture. Was that the kids crying?

[B]

All the kids were bawling after.

[A]

I was happy to see that because as I told you, when I picked up Lincoln from the fifth grade dance, no one was everyone crying because they realized they weren't gonna see each other. And then When I picked up Delta, they didn't seem to have any awareness of that. But now it seems to have hit them at this.

[B]

No, but that made me sad. And it is sad. Like these, these chapters. You know, was thinking about her little preschool graduation that we did in Covid. Remember it was Covid. So we just like went one by one.

[A]

This is when I had just crashed in the motorcycle.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I was in there in a sling. Yeah.

[B]

Same day. And. And. And like I just. That we were. Said bye to that school and now this school. And it's like, what the fuck is going on? I hate time.

[A]

Yeah. And you really. I think you specifically hate chapters.

[B]

Yeah. Endings. I hate endings. Yeah.

[A]

I think the. I think the, the more you look at life as chapters, the easier it is to handle. Handle the bittersweetness. I don't like that you go like, yeah, this is sad. I'm leaving this chapter and there'll be a different chapter I'll experience and that will be special too. And I'll be sad to say goodbye to that one, but then another one will come.

[B]

I know I said that to her when she was crying. I said it's hard to. It's. It's hard. It's a really big chapter. Yeah. But. Yeah. And my inclination was to say, but there's gonna. But there's. The next one's gonna be fun. But I didn't. Cuz I was like, yeah, it's just. Is hard to end things. It's hard to say goodbye to things and.

[A]

But it also shows you that you cared about things and that they were special and important because you will miss them and long for them. Without that part, we don't get the other part.

[B]

I know.

[A]

If everything's a given, then you just take everything for granted.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's our terrible nature.

[B]

It's. Yeah. It's just hard. But I also. It is funny because I was like, oh my God. Like there's much so. So old and this is like they're in college tomorrow and like I hate this. Then I was thinking back to fifth grade. I was like, oh, that was so long ago. Like I like can't really remember it. So there's a lot. A lot will happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not. It's going to move fast, but it's like things are going to happen in there and. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about that the other day. I was. I don't know what I was journaling about, but I was thinking, oh, in a few birthdays I'll have Been on TV as long as I've not been

[B]

on TV in a few. Oh, I see.

[A]

In my life.

[B]

I see. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

I was 28 when I hit 56. Half of my life I'll have spent having been on TV show business. And what I weirdly liked about. About that was I thought, oh, that. That's so long ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot happens so long ago, and I still have that chunk of time ahead of me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's really comforting.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. I think about that as well. It went by so fast, but also so much happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so much will happen in the next. That next chunk of time. But it's still struggling. Stressful. Anyway. Well, happy graduations to all.

[A]

It's a time to think about life, moving forward, new chapters, next stages.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What we are as a people, how we prepare each other for that, how we. I don't know, you know, ceremonies and. And rites of passages. Maybe because I was into anthro.

[B]

It's just a human thing. Thing.

[A]

Yeah. It's really interesting that we all have developed these.

[B]

Actually, it's an animal thing. I mean, I feel like. Right. Don't even. Animals like elephants do, like a little mourning thing.

[A]

Elephants mourn. Yeah. They have elephant grave sites where they play with the bones and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But their rites of passage are more like. You get kicked out of the. The. The. They call elephants caravans. Right.

[B]

Oh, that sounds right.

[A]

You get kicked out of the caravan because you're an adolescent male and you can't be around anyone, and then you get to come back when you've chilled out. So I guess that's a rite of passage.

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. But yeah.

[A]

Want to do some facts?

[B]

Yeah, let's do some facts.

[A]

Pack of elephants is a memory or a parade. Parade. Oh, wow.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

A memory.

[C]

Memory.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's interesting because they have such good memories. But that's weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why, like, you wouldn't call a pack of cheetahs fast.

[B]

It's a fast cheetah. That'd be great.

[A]

A fast of cheetahs, that'd be great. They also look like they're fasting cheetahs.

[B]

Yeah, well, because they're so. So much energy.

[A]

Yeah. I gotta say, Light and quick.

[B]

Okay, well, this was for Steve.

[A]

Steve Aoki, who I really, really liked.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

You know, I think I even said it in the episode. Have a ton of interest in DJing. So when we're considering a guest like Steve, I go, I got to recognize that this Guy's like a world famous. One of the biggest DJs to ever live. So that's. That's worthy of an exploration. But I personally am not so into DJing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But this whole punk rock thing that happened and to see how enthusiastic this guy is and always has been about music.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I thought, boy, does he deserve all this.

[B]

Yes, I agree.

[A]

Yeah. I like him so much.

[B]

Me too. He was also just very kind and sweet energy.

[A]

Very sweet energy. Almost so sweet. It's amazing he made it. And what a cool counterfactual to his father's approach.

[B]

I know.

[A]

But yet they both were wildly successful.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. Okay, when did Benihana start? Frantic. Wait, iPod. Oh, embarrassing. IPO'd. No, iPod. In 1983. Like, that's not what I asked. In 1983. And started soon after. The exact date is unclear, but by 1970s, there were many locations. First store opened in 1964. I want to go. I want. Want that fried rice. I want it with butter.

[A]

We were just talking about it last night.

[B]

I want that. No info on the percentage of birthdays that are at Benihana, but hard to find out. I think it is 70%.

[A]

I think he would know.

[B]

Yeah. Is Kill Sadie banned from Minnesota? Yes, from Minneapolis and active 1997-2001.

[A]

What?

[B]

Is this a band? Kill Sadie?

[A]

Oh, not. They were banned. Like a book banning?

[B]

No, banned.

[A]

Got it, got it, got it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm like, I. I was. I was having a lot of cognitive dissonance. I'm like, minneapolis is very progressive. They wouldn't ban anything.

[B]

No, they wouldn't. That's true. Okay, Devin, some fun facts. Fast and Furious. Sin City Sister. Yep. Doa Mutant Chronicles modeling career. Walked for Balenciaga. Com de Garcon, Chanel.

[A]

Wow. You know, I am immediately not immediate. It took me three days, weirdly. But I got on the phone with my cousin.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Who was in the band that Steve was obsessed with.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so I wanted to tell him. I'm like, dude, that. That dj, Steve Aoki, he, like, loves Current, you know, I just want to tell him all that and then also pass on the fact that he authenticates records.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For his dad, so.

[B]

Oh, yeah. He was telling us about that after, and we were going to talk about that.

[A]

Yeah. So he has a company that now authenticates records, and. Yeah. Gives them a quality and. And then encases them. And so he had offered to do that to my uncle's record collection, which is kind of famous. And then my cousin said oh, yeah. He was like a Santa Barbara punk rock kid. Huh? Like he kind of knew that he had that origin. And he goes and doesn't he? He's got a super hot sister. And I go, yeah, yeah. She's like crazy hot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Those are the two things he knew about him.

[B]

Well, yeah. She replaced Naomi Campbell as the face of Versace in 98 at the age of 16.

[A]

Dude.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Okay. 2007, Coachella. The headlines were Bjork, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Rage against the Machine. Steve played on Saturday afternoon in the Sahara tent.

[A]

Sahara, Sahara, Sahara.

[B]

What year did esports take off? He guessed 2,010. Yes. Sources cite 2010 is the big surge in popularity, mostly after the launch of Twitch in 2011. In 2013, viewers watched 12 billion minutes. That's on the platform. Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, my heavens.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, there's also like some obviously fun stuff on his dad. Was he wrestling for the Olympics? He came to the US with a spot on Japan's 1960 Olympic team, but never competed. And a scholarship to wrestle in the States at Springfield College in Springfield, Massachusetts. His 1979 offshore powerboat crash near the Golden Gate Bridge resulted in many injuries, including a railway ruptured aorta, a lacerated liver, and multiple broken bones in his arm and leg, leaving him with a 10% chance of survival. Oh, my God.

[A]

Maniac Rocky.

[B]

It is claimed that the hepatitis he had at the time of his death was from a blood transfusion from the crash.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay. He won a bunch of awards. Wrestling and power boating, batgammon, hot air ballooning. Yeah. Won the world leisure class backgammon championship in 19. Dude was 74.

[A]

This guy might have devoured life more than anyone we know.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

He's kind of my new hero.

[B]

Part of the form hot air ballooning. Part of the four man crew that completed the first Trans Pacific balloon flight in 1981, setting a 34 year record for the longest man balloon flight covering 5,208 miles.

[A]

Probably until Richard Branson.

[B]

Oh, he didn't have to do that.

[A]

He traveled the world. He didn't need circumnavigated the earth on a hot air balloon.

[B]

Poor Rocky.

[A]

Well, you got unseen. I think you correct for his level of technology versus the other balloon. I think it's probably more impressive going across the Pacific and the thing they did.

[B]

I agree. Those are the facts.

[A]

Well, Steve, if you're listening, you're so likable, it's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. That was really a lovely interview. A lot.

[A]

All right, love you. You're special, you're great. And you're going to be the president.

[B]

Right back at you, Jam.