Tom Pelphrey

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: Tom Pelphrey

Release Date: April 20, 2026

Summary by Episode Theme, Key Insights, Notable Quotes, and Timestamps

---

Overview

In this episode of Armchair Expert, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman sit down with Emmy-nominated actor Tom Pelphrey (known for roles in Ozark, Love and Death, Iron Fist, and Task). The conversation dives deeply into Tom’s personal history, mental health journey, philosophy on acting, sobriety, the impact of early family life, his partnership with Kaley Cuoco, and the themes of identity, self-worth, and genuine partnership. The discussion is unguarded, intellectually honest, and at times, moving.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Identity Formation

• Howell Township, New Jersey roots: Tom reflects on growing up close to New York and the Jersey Shore, surrounded by supportive childhood friends and a younger, athletic brother (09:00–09:53).
• Family challenges: Parents divorced young; dad was a traveling salesman, mom a secretary who singlehandedly raised two boys while working full time (11:14–13:48).
• "My mom raised two boys, two wild animals, on her own while she worked full time. I don't know where to put that in my head. I really don't." — Tom Pelphrey (13:15)

2. Mental Health, Anxiety, and Depression

• Tom distinguishes between anxiety and depression—he’s more susceptible to melancholy than chronic anxiety, which Dax relates to subconsciously-driven night anxiety (04:47–06:23).
• Eckhart Tolle’s “Power of Now”: The book’s impact on reframing identity: "instead of, I'm sad, to say I have a sadness… so it’s not who you are… it’s not an identity." (06:23)
• Discussion on reframing depressive states and the importance of seeing emotions as temporary (06:23–06:48)

3. Reading, Introversion, and Childhood Passions

• Tom’s “alcoholic” intensity for reading—Stephen King, Bukowski—and its effect on his worldview (15:14–16:15).
• Self-described “extroverted introvert”—enjoys people but recharges solo; lived alone in the woods before meeting Kaley Cuoco (16:23–17:06).
• "I recharge alone... but I like being around people too." — Tom Pelphrey (16:37)

4. Partnership and Personal Growth

• Insight into his relationship with Kaley Cuoco—polar opposites, helping each other grow, and understanding real partnership for the first time in his late 30s (17:14–20:25).
• "The more I receive from her... the only response... is to reciprocate, to want to give it back. Like, how can I be better?" — Tom Pelphrey (17:14)
• Discussion of secure relationships vs. insecure attachment, and the gifts of mutual support (19:08–20:13).

5. Evolving Identity and the Creative Life

• Acting and attachment to professional identity: Tom and Dax discuss the perils of self-worth through achievement, the illusion of permanence at "the top," and the necessity of letting go (31:06–36:33).
• "What is the identity that I want to build my house on?... for years it was actor, actor, actor. And then, of course, not succeeding, even if you were succeeding, it wasn't succeeding enough." — Tom Pelphrey (32:06)
• Real growth comes from embracing change, not rigidly clinging to identity (20:39–21:12).

6. Sobriety — Spiritual Epiphany & The Program

• Drinking, loss and structure: After success on Guiding Light (winning Daytime Emmys), loss of structure post-soap and the sudden death of his father led to a downward spiral (44:41–48:29).
• Sobriety catalyst: Inspired by a “lightning bolt” moment after reading The Power of Now (49:45–53:08).
• "When we make a big change, especially, you die and are reborn. Because the 'you' that was drinking did die. It's terrifying." — Tom Pelphrey (53:27)
• Process of integrating 12-step concepts, spirituality, and finding relief from addiction (57:41–59:41).

7. Lessons from Acting and Collaborations

• Profound respect for directors who embody authenticity—Fincher vs. Jeremiah Zagar (23:22–23:39).
• The transformative mentorship of his high school teacher Steve Kazakoff and how acting in high school and at Rutgers (Mason Gross) formed his obsessive, all-in work ethic (24:46–25:46).
• Soap opera work as "incredible training," muscle preparation for memorization and technical acting skill (45:44–46:39).

8. Maturity in Craft and Comparison with Peers

• Story about Mark Ruffalo’s evolution from intensity to joy on set (71:05–73:10).
• "I've been doing this so long, if it wasn't going to be fun, I can't keep doing it... it needs to be enjoyable, or it's unsustainable." — Paraphrasing Mark Ruffalo, as retold by Tom Pelphrey (72:06)
• Dax's admiration for the authenticity and physicality in Tom's acting ("not a gym body, but a real body") (73:44–74:33).

9. Sobriety and Success—The Turning Point

• "I live by that. I believe that's true."—discussion of being "given things only as you’re ready" and career revival post-sobriety (68:05–68:48).
• Immediate booking of significant roles after sobriety; gratitude for the timing and its impact on his ability to appreciate success (68:09).

---

Notable Quotes by Topic

On Partnership

• "I never before in life understood what it actually meant to have a partner. What a powerful thing." (17:14)

On Identity & Growth

• "I feel like that's the real knowing who you are — when you know who you are on a deep enough level that you’re allowing yourself to change." (20:39)

On Acting and Mentorship

• "He spoke to all of us like we were paid professionals. So it builds the sense of: we're all here to do something that's bigger than any one of us could do by ourselves." (24:08)

On Sobriety & Facing Change

• "When we make a big change, especially, you die and are reborn...It's terrifying." (53:27)
• "What are you going to do on Thanksgiving? What are you going to do on Christmas? It's your whole life at that point." (54:02–54:30)

On Relapse & Recovery Programs

• "For me, it was God first. And then eventually [the sobriety] program... Those steps are just an articulation of something that is deeper." (58:47–60:48)

---

Important Segments (with Timestamps)

| Segment | Content/Key Quote | |----------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:26–06:48 | Anxiety vs. depression, learning to see feelings as temporary; Eckhart Tolle’s influence | | 09:00–10:10 | Childhood, brother dynamic, and identity (“claiming crazy” as protection) | | 13:15–14:04 | Single mom raising two boys, retrospective admiration | | 16:23–17:06 | Ambivert/extroverted introvert; lifestyle pre-Kaley | | 17:14–20:25 | The nature of partnership, reciprocal love, evolving through relationships | | 31:06–36:33 | The pitfalls of “actor” as sole identity, letting go of achievement-based self-worth | | 44:41–48:29 | Drinking, burnout, father’s death, and hitting the bottom | | 49:45–53:08 | Read The Power of Now, spiritual awakening, realization of addiction, fear of change | | 57:41–59:41 | Sobriety journey, the steps, and the role of spirituality and community | | 68:05–68:48 | Sobriety leading to career breakthroughs, “only get what you’re ready for” | | 71:05–73:10 | Mark Ruffalo’s philosophy: from focus to fun, maturing in craft | | 73:44–74:33 | Body image in acting; Dax’s appreciation for “real” masculinity on screen |

---

Memorable Moments

• Tom and Dax bond over past addictive behaviors, the absurdity of “normal” drinkers leaving half a glass, and the relief found in surrendering to the process of recovery.
• Monica gifts Tom a huge compliment: "You really had that. When I was watching Task, I was like: that's that guy. It was shocking. Such a transformation." (44:22)
• Tom’s deeply emotional, teary response to parenting and the unconditional love from his daughter Matilda (37:22).

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is authentic, self-exposing, and alternately poignant and light. Dax navigates with transparency about his own insecurities and life battles, while Tom responds in a gentle, open way. Monica injects humor and practical perspective, enriching the dialogue about self-worth and relationships.

---

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in:

• The personal journey from chaos to creative clarity
• Processing grief, loss, and big professional transitions
• Sobriety, and the intricacies and revelations of 12-step recovery
• Building healthy adult partnerships
• A behind-the-scenes look at acting, craft, and the emotional labor of show business
• Honest conversation about family, identity, and the lifelong journey of self-discovery

—

Highly Recommended Segments:

• The power of supportive childhood friendships and parental resilience (08:07–13:48)
• Partnership and mature love (17:14–21:12)
• The realities of addiction and the slow, subtle build of “the buzzing” (49:45–50:05)
• Life after hitting rock bottom: career, recovery, and clarity (68:05–69:20)

---

Final Message:
This episode is a thoughtful exploration of messiness, recovery, and transformation—both in craft and as a human being. Tom Pelphrey delivers the kind of honesty that makes Armchair Expert beloved, and Dax and Monica’s supportive, probing chemistry brings the conversation to life.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Today we have for me a revelation of last year. For others, not old news because he's been great so many times, but I was exposed to him in Task last year.

[Monica Padman]

What a show.

[Dax Shepard]

Tom Pelfrey, he's an Emmy nominated actor. He was the bad guy with a heart of gold in Task. He also was mind blowing on Ozark, Love and Death, Iron Fist and Guiding Light at the beginning and won daytime Emmys.

[Monica Padman]

I probably watched him in Guiding Light because I used to watch that with my grandma.

[Dax Shepard]

Was that one of your shows?

[Monica Padman]

It was. It was one of my shows, so I probably watched a young him.

[Dax Shepard]

If you have not seen Task, get on it. It streams on HBO right now and it's just a beautiful show. And then in addition to him, you have Mark Ruffalo, which, geez Louise, such

[Monica Padman]

a good show all around.

[Dax Shepard]

Powerhouse. Please enjoy. Tom Pelfrey. This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work, they actually do it. Start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

[Monica Padman]

They never are.

[Dax Shepard]

To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com we are supported by quints. I'm pretty picky about what I wear. Not in a fashion, way more in a if this bugs me even a little, I'm out way. And this time of year always makes me want to reset a bit, clean things up, keep my closet simple. That's why I keep coming back to quints. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality everyday essentials using premium materials like 100% European linen and their insanely soft flow knit active fabric. Their linen pieces are lightweight, breathable and comfortable. Perfect for spring. And they strike that balance where you look put together without trying too hard. I got their linen pants and honestly, I was surprised how good they feel. Sometimes you think linen could be coarse, but these are so Soft and luxurious and nothing really flows like linen. The best part is the pricing. It's 50 to 60% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories. Refresh your wardrobe with quints. Go to quints.com Dax for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to Q-U-I-N c e.com Dax for free shipping 365 day returns. Quince.com Dax. I feel like this is a very long time coming.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know, brother. We have so many friends in common.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Ziegers for sure. Ziegers, who else?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, I just feel like from that world there must be more.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I guess I missed.

[Dax Shepard]

There's no chance we've ever been in a meeting together, is there? I can't remember, but I did have a panic this morning. Like, oh, my God, what if we were in a meeting together? Where do you have to be at 12:30? I'm so curious. Be honest.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Something for a photo shoot and some kind of interview, but I don't really know what it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

That's just getting carted from place to place.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I just fucking honestly. They tell me where to go. I say, okay, that's right. Do my best to show up.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That's good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Have you had to adopt that strategy? Because I kind of watched my wife operate that way for years. I was like, I need to know everything I'm doing so far out in advance. Like, control freak. And then I'd watch her just kind of wake up and figure out what she's doing that day. And it worked out just fine for her. And so slowly I've been like, oh, yeah, figure out what I'm doing tomorrow. Have you always been this way or did you evolve to this?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No, I've kind of always been this way, but to the extreme that it was not great.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. A little detrimental.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Really.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Just not thinking at all about interviews. Basically just thinking about tomorrow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

But I guess it is a good thing to do to not think too far ahead when you're busy because then you get a little overwhelmed.

[Dax Shepard]

I just produce a bunch of anxiety, obviously, because I'm not in today. I'm focused so much on tomorrow.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Do you feel like you're more prone to have anxiety?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you know, I have zero in my waking hours. Like, if you ask me, do you have anxiety? I don't at night. Clearly I do, because I wake up many, many nights a week and just ruminate on stuff that's coming up in the future for an hour. So clearly I do have a lot of anxiety, but when I'm awake, I'm not fearful of it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It wakes you up from sleep.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Have you ever had young Carl Jung?

[Dax Shepard]

Carl Jung?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No, just so much of it is you use the subconscious so often in a Jungian session. You'll just talk about your dreams. And I wonder if these things are waking you up in the middle of the night that there might be a way in there that you're not consciously experiencing it, but maybe there's something deeper.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I mean, I was just in Nashville for a week where we have a house and I don't work there and I sleep like a baby there. Wow. And I don't ever wake up with anxiety because I had literally nothing to do.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What's your anxiety level?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Not high. Not very high. Again, back to the. Not thinking too much into the future, if anything, in the past, and this is a lot less so recently. But I would feel depression at times. Some people are kind of more one way, some people a little bit more the other.

[Dax Shepard]

So just like melancholy.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, just a kind of sadness sometimes coming out of nowhere, not necessarily attached to anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And then the future is bad. Right. When you're in that state, it's not full of opportunity and hope.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Everything feels bad in that state. Everything just gets kind of gray.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe you're not even thinking about tomorrow or the future. It's just right now is bad or just like feels heavy.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, it just kind of comes on. And that's an interesting thing to observe. You know, Eckhart Tolle, if you guys read Power Now. Yeah. That book really changed my life in a lot of ways. But he sort of says, even the way you talk to yourself about it, even saying instead of, I'm sad to say I have a sadness in me. To acknowledge it's not who you are. And also that it's sort of transit, not an identity.

[Monica Padman]

It's temporary. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So Howell Township, New Jersey. This is a suburb of New York City. Ish.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Central Jersey. Jersey Shore.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Jersey Shore.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Bruce Springsteen.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And then recently we just.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Charlie Puth.

[Dax Shepard]

Charlie Puth.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. A claim to fame.

[Tom Pelphrey]

We have a lot of Jersey boys and gals.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How far to New York from Howell Township?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Hour 15 with decent traffic.

[Dax Shepard]

And how close to the Jersey Shore?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, 10 minute drive.

[Dax Shepard]

So did you grow up hanging around the boardwalk?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And was it similar to what I watched on mtv? There were a lot of Guidos with gold chains.

[Tom Pelphrey]

There is a lot of that. But the problem that we had with. What was that show called?

[Dax Shepard]

Jersey Shore.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Jersey Shore, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Aptly named. Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The problem we had with that show was all the kids on that show, I think minus one, were all from Long Island.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they were very Long Island.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's great.

[Tom Pelphrey]

But no, that is kind of the vibe. That's like a Seaside Heights kind of vibe, which I think is where that show was filmed. Depending on the beach you go to, you get a very different flavored, very different color.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. What was your little click in that world? What kind of dudes did you hang out with? I'm seven years older than you.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I have some idea of what was happening seven years behind me.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I was very fortunate. I just was back in New Jersey for a few weeks. I still have some of my best friends that I've truly been friends with since I was 4 years old.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

So nice.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Life saving.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yes. Such a beautiful thing to be able to have those kind of friends still. And so we were kind of a mixture. There was some who were better at athletics. I eventually, obviously, get into acting, but everybody was very kind and supportive of one another. I had a very wholesome.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good. This isn't one I would have maybe took a guess at.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I went hard left as soon as I went to college.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay.

[Tom Pelphrey]

But before then, it was a pretty nice and peaceful.

[Dax Shepard]

Is your brother older or younger than you?

[Tom Pelphrey]

My brother's younger, almost four years.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he try to pale around like I tried to pale around with my brother?

[Tom Pelphrey]

He did. He followed a lot. Bobby was like the natural athlete. My brother's six foot six.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my goodness.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Star basketball player, played football, wide receiver. He was in a different mold.

[Dax Shepard]

Who looked out for who physically.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, Bobby would always say, even when he was bigger, he would say, I don't mess with Tommy because Tommy's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really vital thing. If you can claim crazy early in your life, it really saves you.

[Monica Padman]

What brand of crazy were you?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Just the kind that if it's going to go there, I don't really care. We'll go all the way.

[Dax Shepard]

When you're a boy and you get a sense that even if I win this fight, I'll be walking at some point, I'm going to get hit with a stick or a shovel, assess that that guy is going to.

[Monica Padman]

But there's different types of crazy. There's like, they're gonna just verbally Fight you on everything. They're going to get in physical fights. They're going to jump off a roof for no reason. They're. You know, there's so many kinds of you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

A lot of brands.

[Monica Padman]

A lot of brands.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I think the root of it is just like a super sensitivity or a fear not for. Maybe in that situation, but for me certainly was realizing with a certain amount of demonstration of anger, the energy would push everybody back and then you'd get some space.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So Bobby is the little brother.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What did mom and dad do?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Mom was a secretary, bookkeeper, and dad was kind of like a traveling salesman.

[Dax Shepard]

Of what variety? What did he sell?

[Tom Pelphrey]

What was. Filters for a while.

[Dax Shepard]

Coffee filters.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I have my coffee here with me. I never leave home without it. So definitely raised a son who's.

[Dax Shepard]

What a niche thing to sell.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

How did he stumble into coffee filters?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I don't know exactly. I just remember sometimes when I was really young, he would come back from overseas. I remember in particular a sweatshirt from New Amsterdam that I tried to wear every day to be worldly. Isn't it wild, the things that are so magic when you're.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's true.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're tiny.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah. And they mean so much.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

It is weird, especially as you get older. It's like these little snapshots you have of these little things, like that sweatshirt or this thing. It's like, why was it so powerful? You almost want to know.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think. I know. It's like your dad was away. He thought of you.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

He got you something. That's what it means, you know, like, oh, my dad was out on his own. I mean, no one's thinking about that consciously, but that's what it means. It's like a connection to him for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

What was your relationship with him?

[Tom Pelphrey]

We got closer when I got older. My parents got divorced when I was still pretty young. We still got to see. My daddy coached my basketball team, God bless him. I played all the sports and I was terrible at all of them. But, you know, he's the coach and I'm a son and he had to play me. I was good at, like, fouling out. But when I got older, we started to get closer. I think that when you sort of become a man or start to. The world takes on much more gray, less black and white. You start to understand a little bit. You start to get a taste a little bit of. You lose this sort of childish simplicity or naivete. And I think I can meet him there on A more even level, and we started to connect. Then, unfortunately, he passed away when I was 25, so 57. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So fucking young.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he die of cancer?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No. Heart attack? He passed away in his sleep.

[Dax Shepard]

Were there signs of it? Was that a complete shocker or was he already struggling with heart disease?

[Tom Pelphrey]

There was no signs, no warnings. He did not take the best care of himself, so I don't think he'd been to a doctor in years.

[Dax Shepard]

Did he have any addictions, though? I mean, who are we to judge? My dad, thank God, identified as an alcoholic and got sober. So it's very easy for me to

[Tom Pelphrey]

say, I don't know. I mean, yes, he liked to drink. He would never touch hard alcohol.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

He was like, wine, only beer.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, beer, not wine.

[Dax Shepard]

It's New Jersey in the 90s. Man didn't drink wine.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. You could have been cultured. He went to Amsterdam. Thank God.

[Dax Shepard]

God knows what he's doing in Amsterdam. Did you have stepdads?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great. Good for you.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. It was my mom, really. Looking back now, being a father now, I always appreciated what she did, but, like, just looking back now, knowing, even just having one kid and I have an amazing partner and we have help and all of that. My mom raised two boys, two wild animals on her. Her own while she worked full time. I don't know where to put that in my head. Yeah, I really don't. I don't even understand how you do that. I know how you do that. And even if you were somehow able to, like, white knuckle that, how it doesn't make you, like, twisted in some way. And it didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm imagining, too, financial stress. Right. It's not like you guys were rich or anything.

[Tom Pelphrey]

My dad made sure that the money thing was fine. We were by no means rich or anything. But we also weren't in any kind of poverty. And there was stress for sure, but it wasn't like, the overwhelming.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I took my daughters, just me a year ago, right now, to Hawaii for spring break, the three of us. In day three of the trip, I called my mom and I was like, I don't know how you took the three of us on trips.

[Monica Padman]

And those are girls, and they're girls, to be fair. Pretty put together girls.

[Dax Shepard]

Not David and Dax.

[Monica Padman]

Right?

[Dax Shepard]

The fighting. Because they're bickering. And, like, after three days of it, I'm like, this is nuts. Why did I do this? I'm like, my mom took us on 20, 30 vacations in cars.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Just sitting in a car for 21 hours with three kids driving to Florida.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know. Would you ever take the train? Oh, I don't know if you would have been able to do that. We took the train down once to Disney World.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, magic.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, tell me.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, it's just an overnight train ride. As a kid it was. Yeah. Recline the seat and there's a dining car and.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That's when I started reading Lord of the Rings. Weird. I haven't thought about this in so long. I wanted to read Lord of the Rings. I went to the library and I didn't understand the order, so I took out the second book first. Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Great place to start.

[Tom Pelphrey]

So I'm reading the Two Towers on the train down the floor. It's one of my happiest memories.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you a reader?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, yeah. Ferocious. Later on in life when I got into certain programs, they would call it alcoholic reading. I loved reading from a young age. Just huge books, getting lost in them. I don't think my mom understood that. Stephen King is kind of like a low key pervert in his books. You know what I mean? It doesn't show up in the movies. So if you just know movies, he's like, oh, it's horror. But then you read the books. I'm like 11 years old reading all these.

[Dax Shepard]

My gateway into reading was Bukowski. So similar. I was just like, no.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, yeah, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because I didn't start reading until like high school. Did you read Bukowski when you're younger?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I mean, when I was in college,

[Dax Shepard]

that's what turned me on to reading. I was like half these stories about this guy taking a shit or getting drunk or fucking some stranger or getting in a bar fight. And at 14, 15, I'm like, oh, this guy's a hero.

[Monica Padman]

These are how powerful books are. You became that if you had read like Anne of Green Gables, you'd be so different.

[Dax Shepard]

We wouldn't be sitting here.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I read other books and I became it too.

[Monica Padman]

So I guess we are.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It doesn't matter.

[Dax Shepard]

Some people are just destined to go somewhere. Were you an introvert or were you super social?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I've heard the term extroverted introvert. Is that getting ambivert?

[Dax Shepard]

I think of people are now saying ambivert. I think that's just both. Like you have periods of both. You can be extrovert and then you got to recharge, right?

[Tom Pelphrey]

They say how you recharge is what you are. I definitely recharge alone. So I don't get energy from being around a ton of people, but I like being around people too.

[Dax Shepard]

But I think Kaylee told us that when you guys met, you were living like in the woods in upstate New York or something.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like you and a dog in the

[Tom Pelphrey]

woods, halfway up a mountain on a dirt road.

[Dax Shepard]

Feels very introverted to me. I would go crazy. I would have to figure out something social.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I'm definitely an introvert, but I've also gotten more balanced in that I enjoy being around people.

[Dax Shepard]

Is she a bit of a gateway for you for that?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, my God. She's like the total opposite of me every way.

[Monica Padman]

That's so fun. What a good team.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, I'll tell you, I never before in life understood what it actually meant to have a partner. What a powerful thing. And the more I receive from her, the more I see that she's sort of gone out of her way to either understand me or love me or both. The only response, and it's quite a naturally occurring response, is to want to reciprocate, to want to give it back. Like, how can I be better? Where can I understand you better and show up a little better and you have that experience. Like, this is wild. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I was thinking a lot this morning. Both times I've interviewed her, I'm like, this gal and Kristen. There is so much overlap in the Venn diagram. There's the obvious stuff, there's like this animal obsession and there's this kind of carefree spirit and things will work out and don't worry, a lot of that stuff. But what I think I really isolated this morning when I was mulling it over is Kristen has insane self esteem and confidence. And the benefit of that self esteem and confidence is kind of mind blowing. I could have never really anticipated what that was. And Kaylee strikes me as that same way, 100%. She'll say what she wants to say. She's not overthinking who thinks what. She's just confident. That's a powerful thing in a partner, isn't it?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No, it's a really powerful thing. When I was first around her, seeing how much she believed in herself and was just fully in her own body, in her own way, confident in what she was doing, there was times I was literally like, are you allowed to do that?

[Dax Shepard]

Where did you get off?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, I'm like tearing myself apart and I'm questioning myself and doubting myself. And she's just like, this is who I am. This is how I do things. And I have no problem with that. And I know what I am, and I know what I'm not, and I have no problem with that either. That was wild. You know, especially in the beginning of coming from a place of trying to heal this sense of, like, how do I be all things to all people? I've gotten over that a lot more recently.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And we just had this expert on that was telling us about different attachment styles and, like, a secure attachment style. And I think when you're really insecure, you're worried the person you're with is going to leave you or you're not worthy of them. And then so because you're afraid of that, you're looking for a lot of data to either confirm or deny that. So they're evaluating the relationship a lot. So maybe if Kaylee was insecure, it wouldn't be easy for her to be generous to you and benevolent the way she's been to you, because she would think, well, I'm giving and he's not reciprocating. And does that mean this as opposed to, like, I'm gray and I'm gonna just pour it on you? I don't think that's a loss of my power or a loss of my leverage or. I don't know. I just think there's so much that grows out of having a partner that's kind of confident, 100%.

[Tom Pelphrey]

But I also think that over time, we've learned that she does have insecurities in other places and where I might be strong and secure. And that's kind of amazing, too, where you realize, like, okay, we're actually kind of balanced here, even though it just shows up in different ways. So where I'm strong, I can help you, and where you're strong, you can help me.

[Monica Padman]

Those are the best.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It's wild. By the time we met, I was 39 years old. I was almost 40 years old. To go that long without really understanding what partnership could mean. Yes. You know, I'm grateful.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you feeling each other's gaps and you make each other better?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. And as much as you've known who you are, how much do you feel like since the really knowing who you are, that you've also changed?

[Monica Padman]

You've changed a ton.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I've changed a ton.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That's beautiful, though.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I feel like that's the real knowing who you are when you know who you are on a deep enough level that you're allowing yourself to change versus this is who I am. And then you're muscling Your identity.

[Dax Shepard]

I totally agree with you, and I think that's a faux belief in yourself. If you think you have to be rigid to protect this identity, it actually comes from insecurity.

[Monica Padman]

If you're 100% attached to your, like, belief on anything, really. If you're just like, this is 100% what it is, and it's very black and white, that actually comes from insecurity because you're afraid, well, what happens if I change my mind on this? Like, who will I be?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you'll be on top.

[Monica Padman]

Your identity. Yeah. Is at stake.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Right, right.

[Dax Shepard]

I also think a strong partnership's very similar to the program, which is like, I'm not good at you telling me what to do. I always buck against that. I'm terrible at asking for mentorship or advice, but if I can watch you navigate a situation and you're sharing about it and I can just be over here watching, and I go, oh, yeah, I have that same character defect. You did what? Oh. And what was the outcome? If I can observe you, I can grow and learn a lot. I do best if I'm just allowed to observe you. So, yeah, to observe Kristen moving through life for the last 19 years, doing it completely different than me and then getting these different results, I think that's helped me enormously grow towards those things.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. Almost like learning or taking advice through the attraction of, like, a good example versus somebody sitting you down and telling

[Dax Shepard]

me what to do. Because my insecurities go like, well, I should know that already. And now I'm going to act like I do know it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Nobody likes being told about that.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know that. I see people like, do you like being directed? I feel like you would.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, that depends.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah. Tell me if the director's good. Yeah. Fincher's directing you.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Fincher brings out the yes, sir in me. You know, he brings out the bring it on. I'll do anything you say. I'll run through the wall for you, all that stuff. And there's a lot of different ways that directors can be beautiful and really good at what they do. I was having this conversation the other day, but I think ultimately. Well, for anybody, probably in all things, but certainly when it comes to what we do is, is that person themselves, do they know who and what they are, and are they coming from that place? Meaning David would direct how David's going to direct. And Jeremiah, who I just worked with on task, will direct how Jeremiah is going to direct. And Jeremiah is just this sweet angel human being.

[Monica Padman]

What a show.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Just beaming love and this gentle, kind of very whispery. But they are both who they are, and their power comes from being in how they are and not trying to do what somebody else would do.

[Dax Shepard]

They know their point of view and they have one.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I mean, probably just in life in general, but when you really encounter that in somebody, you sort of know it on the level of, like, intuition.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And then you respond to it. It feels very safe. There's nothing that's coming from them that feels like a lie or a insecurity being revealed. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's so true.

[Monica Padman]

Very true.

[Dax Shepard]

When did you want to start acting? I know you went to Rutgers.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I had a high school teacher that changed my life.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really? Who was that?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Steve Kazakoff. I auditioned for the play. I couldn't sing or dance. Got a little chorus part and he came in and he was genuinely scarier than the football coaches.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And it was like, who's this? Who is this guy? But he took it dead serious. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Good for him. At high school. Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

What a gift. What a gift. And he spoke to all of us like we were paid professionals. It was incredible. I think if I hadn't had that experience, I don't know if I would have done it, because what that experience gives you is an insane work ethic. If what you're doing is very important, you also drilled into us. You are a part of something greater. So even if you were the lead in the play, you didn't have to rehearse that day. You stayed and helped build the sets. There wasn't a question about that. And so it builds the sense of we're all here to do something that's bigger than any one of us could do by ourselves. And. And you're a team and you support everybody else on the team. Incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

You loved it. I heard you talking with somebody about how all in you were in that the school was 8 to 6. You were also in two different other theater groups. You were doing shit at night class until 6.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And then there'd be a main stage show and then you'd work on that. From 7 to 11, you'd either act in the show or you were running some part of the backstage to learn how to do that. And then from 11pm to 1am we had had two different black box theaters. And at that time, they would give us access to them. So whatever we wanted to do, we could. And we never were not doing something from 11 to 1am so we'd write our own plays, we'd direct them. We'd cast them with our friends, we'd hang the lights, we'd make the music cues, and we'd rehearse them for a month or so. And then we would put on the show on a weekend that we didn't have the main stage show. So we were constantly layers in of working on multiple things simultaneously and also learning how to do everything ourselves.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And never getting fatigued, just being energized by the whole thing, ever.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The things I could get away with back then when I was 20 years old. I mean, it's, like, wild.

[Monica Padman]

What school was it?

[Dax Shepard]

Rutgers.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, Mason Gross. At Rutgers.

[Dax Shepard]

Until today, I didn't even know Rutgers was New Jersey State University.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's a private.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I guess I thought. I mean, it's got a real prestige. It does the name Rutgers.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Does it?

[Monica Padman]

Well, yeah. It's not New Jersey University, which is pretty cool.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Pretty rare.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very rare for a state university to have a name. Aside from Colorado State. Right.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I never thought about that.

[Dax Shepard]

I think. I can't think of any other ones.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Same. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, oh, Rutgers must be like a private.

[Monica Padman]

It's Tulane. Tulane's probably private, actually.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Probably.

[Dax Shepard]

It was just there. And I should know that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you should know that.

[Dax Shepard]

What is that, nicotine?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Would you like some nose?

[Dax Shepard]

Have a spray if you prefer. Lozenges and spray.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Did you ever smoke?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, like a motherfucker.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And you quit?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, 20 years ago. 21 years ago.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I have two cigarettes at night.

[Dax Shepard]

Good for you. That's my dream.

[Monica Padman]

That's your vice.

[Dax Shepard]

Wouldn't you agree, as someone who used to drink, the dream is two Jack and diets a night. If I could do that, that would be.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know that I'm one of us. Because you even say that and I get.

[Dax Shepard]

Not my stomach. Yeah, exactly. It was like, panic.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Because in that regard I could never imagine. It's funny now, like, in retrospect, but when I would be drinking, it used to, like, pain me and genuinely confuse me. Be out with somebody drinking at a bar or whatever, and somebody would, like, leave half their. I used to always be, like.

[Dax Shepard]

It was as crazy to me as someone trying to eat their food anally. Like, what do you. Why did you order it? What? The medicine's still in there. Like, what? No, exactly. What are we doing here?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Is there not a purpose in what we're doing here?

[Dax Shepard]

We're trying to get obliterated.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's the solution. You can't leave half of it. No. That was maddening. And Then having that debate in your head, like, am I gonna be a scumbag and say, like, are you gonna finish that? Which I ultimately always would.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, oh, let's not leave this. I didn't care what the fuck they ordered. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't be left. I said this last night. My family and I have discovered this taco place down the street with hard shell tacos. And we like them so much as I'm eating them, I'm panicked, you know, And I got six last night. Halfway through, I was like, not enough. I didn't get enough. And then other. And there was one person left. One. And I was like, is that going to go? I go, dude, this is just like cocaine. Which is. I stopped doing cocaine when there's no cocaine.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Not. I'll stop now. And these tacos, there would never be a taco left on the table. I don't care how many were ordered. I will have them till they're gone.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Even though they're never gone.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, they were gone.

[Monica Padman]

No, you can get them again tomorrow.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, I literally, anytime you want,

[Monica Padman]

you can get those addicts. I mean, I drink a lot. Well, frequency. I drink a lot, but I'm always leaving half. Sometimes I drink half a martini and I'm like, you know what? I want wine now. And then I'll leave that. I'll drink some of the wine. For me, it's just so social. I mean, you want a little buzz, obviously.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's be real here.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But obliteration is not the goal.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That sort of gives you an insight into the mental illness of it. Because as we're saying this, I know at the time I thought you were the one who actually a problem. Yes. And I really did. I'm not trying to be funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Why are they even doing this?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Like, why are you doing this? Like, are you doing this for a show? Just don't drink at all.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Knock it off. You're not taking this seriously.

[Monica Padman]

Interesting. I kind of agree that there is something weird about that too. Like, well, if you're just going to have a little bit, why do you need it? I get that.

[Dax Shepard]

The rationale.

[Monica Padman]

I get that too. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The other thing I think you can quickly tell how people are is I'll watch a movie like Leaving Las Vegas. And I go, yeah, man, that looks so good. I mean, most people, non addicts are watching that going, that looks terrible.

[Monica Padman]

Scary.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm watching, going, like, yeah, man. To finally throw in the towel and just go, like, I'm going All the way. And I'm not gonna look back. Weirdly is still appealing. I mean, I'm not gonna do it. But I watch it and I can remember just finally going, I don't give a fuck. I mean, so much of the addiction, I think, at least for me, was like medicating this mountain I had on my shoulders. Like, I gotta accomplish this and I gotta accomplish that, and if I don't become this, I'm a fucking loser. And when I would just surrender to a three day bender, I was letting that go, of course. I was like, okay, we're not gonna be a fucking star. We're not gonna be a published author. We're not gonna be a good boyfriend. We're not gonna, you know, we're not gonna drive responsibly. We're just gonna be a piece of shit. And I'm gonna let go of this battle. And there's a lot of relief in that.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And where have you found your relief? Where do you find it now?

[Dax Shepard]

First of all, I don't have it as much. I have children right. You know, now for three years, anything we thought that was important is a fucking joke. I know your movie works or it doesn't, or your show's good or bad, 100%. Oh, okay. Well, you know, it doesn't matter anymore. Which is liberating. But even before that, years of sobriety and just having a partner and building other aspects of my life that weren't me trying to be spectacular or relief from that. Can you relate to that pressure?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Of course. And I had to give that up over time in sobriety, realizing that that was just as detrimental as the drinking was, truly. Because it becomes like, who am I? And if this is my identity, if this is how I'm evaluating myself, then I'm always going to fall short. Be careful what game you're playing. Because depending on the game, there is no way to win. There is no top. And even if you get to the top, you can't stay there.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to sustain now the top, which is even harder probably.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Genuinely. I would imagine so. Seeing how it goes sometimes where you do something and it's good and it comes out at the right time and you sort of. And it goes up. You're like. That's a wild confluence of many things happening at exactly the right time. Coupled with, we did a good enough job and boom, it kind of takes off. You're like, there's no way to control that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't even replicate it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

If we could, people would do it. All the time. Clearly we can't. You have an industry with a bunch of people trying to figure out how to do it, and they can't do it with any consistency. So it is out of your control.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And then you are powerless. And then for me, it was like, okay, well, then what is the identity that I want to build my house on? Because for years it was actor, actor, actor. And then, of course, not succeeding. And even if you were succeeding, it wasn't succeeding enough. How are you anything but a failure if that's the identity? It was just constant failure. Or less of a failure, more of a failure, whatever. It's insanity.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on. So frustrating. Fifteen minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by hp. My mental to do list is already full. Fix something around the house. Refill prescriptions. Remember to text someone back. Keep track of a million little life things. The last thing I want on that list is, oh, don't forget printer ink.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's horrible.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the bane of everyone's existence. What if you could just take that off your list for years?

[Monica Padman]

The dream.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the idea behind the HP Smart Tank printer from America's Most Trusted Printer brand. Instead of those tiny cartridges that always seem to run out at the worst time, the HP Smart Tank uses a refillable ink tank. And it comes with up to three years of ink included. It's built to be simple, the easiest tank printer you'll ever use, with the best print quality, period. It's the last printer you'll ever need. You know right before a trip when you're trying to print out a reservation or itinerary and you realize you haven't touched your printer in months? This is the kind of thing that's just ready when you are if you want to take one more thing off your mental to do list. Search for HP Smart Tank. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. So, we're in March, which means it's a moment to celebrate women. And I want to take a second to Acknowledge some incredible women in my life, my family, of course, and Monica, obviously, who I get to work with every day. The women on our team, the women in this industry who are constantly juggling a million things at once. They carry so much. They're managing work, relationships, family dynamics, and about a thousand invisible responsibilities that nobody sees or acknowledges. And here's what I've learned. Taking care of everyone else is exhausting. Setting boundaries, creating balance, making space for yourself. That's not selfish, that's necessary. And therapy can be a really powerful tool for that. That it's a space to work through the pressures, the expectations, the roles we all play. Betterhelp makes it easier to get started. They match you with a licensed therapist based on your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Dax that's better. H lp.com Dax Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you. And hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Spring's calling.

[Dax Shepard]

Ross, work your magic. And look. I've only gotten to the top of one mountain and it was this one. And the second you get there, there is 10 minutes of elation. And then you go like, oh, right. There's only now one trajectory. There's only one movement left. It's down. And that is almost way scarier than the other thing, than the climbing.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This is mine to lose now. Oh, fuck. New round of. I wasn't prepared for this. I thought I was gonna get here and just feel fucking carefree all the time. No. Now I just know I have something to lose.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And I think that's where. When you can start to visualize or see these things not as concepts, but as the real energy that drives you through your life and decide, do I want to play that? No, that's not where I want to build my house. That's not what I'm putting on the altar. So I will play that. But it won't mean identity. It won't mean who I am. It will not mean my value. I'll do it weirdly. Then you can do it with more freedom.

[Dax Shepard]

It's such a mind fuck, isn't it? It is.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I became a million times better actor when I. I decided I am done identifying myself with being an actor.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think telling people. I mean, we have to tell them and it's good, but you have to get there on your own.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You can't sidestep it.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think you can hear and be like, oh, okay. I just won't care. You care.

[Dax Shepard]

You. It's a hard trick. It's a hard mental trick. Back to the kid. Things like, you receive all this love. They have no clue whether you were good or bad on task. They don't know what HBO is. It doesn't mean anything. And you're experiencing this love because you're you and you're available and you're connected and present. That's all it takes to be worthy of love.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

It's nuts, right?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I'm a crybaby too.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm on a burger. Oh, yeah, I'm on a burger. I'm on a crying phase too. Let's let it rip. It's so crazy.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It is the gift of getting to be a father. To finally understand what unconditional love is both ways. Like, here we go.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

But there's nothing she could ever do where I wouldn't love her with all of my being.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And there's no accomplishment that would make you love her more.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Amen, brother. And I also know, like you said, the feeling when I walk into the room, she is excited to see me. She does not give a. A fuck about anything I did or not do.

[Monica Padman]

He just wants you to be there.

[Tom Pelphrey]

He's here. He's here.

[Monica Padman]

Presence. That's it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, man, what a beautiful gift.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't have kids, so I wish people would be able to have that without it. I mean, that's the goal, Right? The kids are the reason you're able to feel it. But we should all be feeling like that Our presence is enough to be loved and worthy.

[Dax Shepard]

I do too. But there is a certain reality of the marketplace of friendship and partnership. Right. It's like people shop in their echelon. Jocks are friends with jocks. Burnouts are friends with burnouts. So to deny that all this stuff is real is also not true. It's like, status is a real thing. People are attracted to people who other people are attracted to. All these things are real. But the real relationships, the ones with your family, the ones with my childhood friend, he doesn't like me more now that I've gotten successful. Maybe he lies because I'm distracted by. But those ones are the ones you kind of gotta foster or have because the other place is a bit of a marketplace. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

[Monica Padman]

I See what you mean. But I guess I'm saying more in the general sense, not like love from a specific person. It's like, I'm someone worthy of love walking around, not to get someone's approval, but just like, walking around on Earth, like, yeah, I'm a person, so I'm worthy of this.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And, you know, kids give you that. Yeah, but we all should have that. That. It's hard, though.

[Tom Pelphrey]

We all have it inherently, and I think we forget it. And I think we don't show it

[Monica Padman]

to each other, especially nowadays. It's the worst timing for that. I feel like.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, it's interesting because what I experienced with Matilda, my daughter, makes me. And maybe this is the way my brain works, but you probably think it, too. I immediately start applying it out. I start thinking like, that's someone's daughter. That's someone's son. Once you know that and then you see the ripples, you're like, well, if this is me and her, then how sacred this is applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

[Monica Padman]

I love that. I don't think everyone's doing that. I mean, maybe they are.

[Dax Shepard]

I need tricks. Look, I don't start with great intentions, and I don't start with loving kindness and benevolence. So I have tricks. Like, that's one like, yeah, that's someone's kid. A kid's being annoying. You see it all the time. Kids are on other kids when kids are fucking. And then you just go like, I know what the dad feels like. That's the most special little girl in the world. I know. She's picking her nose, she shit her pants, and she just hit someone. And if that's my daughter, I'm like, fuck yeah, girl. Let it rip. You know, my other hack is, this is so indulgent, but armchairs are the nicest fucking human beings. Monica and I constantly do this.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

People listening to the show are just across the board, the nicest fucking people. We've met so many of them that if I'm in traffic and I'm getting mad, I have to go like, imagine that's an armchair. And I just completely immediately dropped the whole thing. But I need tricks. Unfortunately, it's not my nature to be like, yeah, this guy's got good intentions. Let's give him a shot.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Not my nature either, brother. Yeah, that's the thing is we have to work on all this. Like, left to your own just natural devices, it doesn't usually turn out the most beneficial for all involved.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we're trying to get ours and protect ourselves and all those things.

[Monica Padman]

We're trying to not do that. That's just the only thing we can do is try not to. And then you can if you're like, you know what? I want to try to see this in a better light than you can.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, well, the part of the miracle is even being aware of what you're doing in the first place goes back to that Eckhart Tolle book. Reading that and him saying that over half the battle is won the second you're aware that there's even something happening, that there's even something to change, that there's even something you don't like, that there's even something you're battling. Because at least I can relate. When I was drinking and stuff, I could make jokes about, oh, I'm an alcoholic. I didn't understand until I understood. And once I understood, it changed. I didn't really understand until I understood. And that sounds silly. It even sounded silly to me, three weeks sober, looking back, being like, how is this a revelation to you? This is so obvious.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm dying to know if we have the same experience. So my understanding is what? You probably drank through college and it was fun. You were successful. Then you got on the soap and you got two Daytime Emmys. That was two years out of college.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Right out of college.

[Dax Shepard]

Where were we at ego wise? I have two different thoughts. One would be like, if I was 20, I was making money fucking doing this and you were nominating me, I would be on fire. But also, I wasn't a thesis from high school who went to college. And I don't know if you had some like, I need to be doing Broadway. I'm not sure what was that part like?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I did have that. I had the I want to be doing Broadway and blah, blah, blah. But I also thought that I was fantastic and I was being shown all the evidence of how great I was and that the world would be rolling out the red carpet when I left the soap. The great shock to my ego leaving the soap and everyone didn't have a red carpet rolled out for me.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't have 80 scripts lined up being offered to you. They didn't bring a pallet it over of offers.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Not only did I not have any scripts being offered, but the things I was desperately trying to get, I couldn't even get.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you remember what actor you wanted to be at that moment? Who was your love at that point?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Sean Penn. Yeah, I mean, Jack Nicholson's always been my favorite. He'll always be my favorite. He's a Jersey boy. Grew up 15 minutes from where I grew up. I mean, he's the talk about a

[Dax Shepard]

dude who knows himself.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, man. More than any other actor, I think I always watch him with a bit of a smile on my face. Like, it just makes me happy to watch him do almost anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Couldn't agree more.

[Tom Pelphrey]

No. At that, though, it would have been Sean Penn. Like, Sean Penn in college that was like, actor's actor. Wanted to know everything about Sean Penn. Look at Sean Penn and Mystic river and then watch Milk. Even some of the best actors, there's like an essence. And that essence, to me, permeates what they do almost regardless of what they're doing. Even if they do two things that are equally amazing and genius, there's a similarity in Essence. Sean Penn doing Mystic river and then Sean Penn in Milk. I'm like, that's not the same human being. Where's the vibration that, like, even if I close my eyes and my ears, somehow I can feel Daniel Day Lewis is in the room. You can kind of feel that about Sean Penn, too. And then he does something that's like a bit of a sweet and low down.

[Dax Shepard]

You're like, wow.

[Tom Pelphrey]

He, like, changed his own rhythm.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Can I tell you something? You have that.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

You really had that. When I was watching Task, I was like, that's that guy. Like, it was shocking. Such a transformation.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

You've hit the mark you were going for. Okay, so you wanted to be Sean Penn, but you're getting all this love. It has to be related. It coincides as well. That ends right when your dad dies, too. These have to be a kind of a confluence of.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. It was actually wild timing. And this is why sometimes real stories are stranger than fiction in the sense of come off the soap and just really crash into the brick wall. Wall. The drinking was always kind of out of control, but I always had structure. I realized looking back, I'd had structure straight through high school. College. College. Only a few months off into the soap. Now, the soap, I never missed a day. I was never unprepared, regardless of how insane I was. So the soap was amazing structure. It's five days a week.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like the hardest job in acting. Right.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It's labor intensive, for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

You're doing like 20 pages a day or 30 pages a day for the audience. You're doing four pages a day on a normal show.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The soap itself is filming 60 pages a day or 50, because. Commercial break. So you're doing an hour of television every single day.

[Monica Padman]

Crazy.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Every single day.

[Dax Shepard]

Love it. It's impossible.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It's insane. Unless the light fell on your head, you're getting one take. You know what I mean?

[Dax Shepard]

There's just literally not enough different angle on someone else. Maybe they'll keep the take where you got hit in the head with.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, well, and they can, because they have three cameras. At least back then perceived three cameras. And they're live editing in the booth. So out of the corner of your eye you could see if camera one, the red light comes on, you know, now it's on you and all that kind of stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

I feel like this is incredible training in so many ways.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It's amazing. I'd never been in front of a camera before.

[Dax Shepard]

The technical aspect of the job, which is hard to pick up if you've only done theater and stuff. Also just memorizing fucking dialogue, right? You're doing 20 pages a day.

[Tom Pelphrey]

A total muscle. Because when I first got there, it took me two weeks to learn 10 pages. And by the end, just as like a bet, we would do these character episodes where our character would be in the entire episode. So again, 55 pages, whatever. When it got time to be mine, they were like, do you want to do it in one day? I said, yes, and I did. Yeah. And I knew what I was doing. But that's a crazy muscle. But you can exercise it. It is wild though, isn't it? How much your brain will adapt and morph into where you need it to be strong.

[Dax Shepard]

It's shocking. Okay, so all that's going on.

[Tom Pelphrey]

So all that's going on. So I get out of the soap. The red carpet isn't rolled out. It's also suddenly the structure gets pulled, which at the time I wasn't thinking, like, oh, I've had structure. Now I'm going into no structure. Structure. Completely unprepared for no structure.

[Dax Shepard]

This is why all the retired athletes get depressed. They've had this structure for their whole lives.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Totally. So everything goes off the rails. Devastated depression. This sounds so self indulgent, but it's just the truth. This is how I felt. And then about a year of that, and then my dad dies. That really rocked me. I hadn't known anyone who had died that was close to me who wasn't very, very old before my dad. And again, it was a surprise. And he's my father. And that sadness I realized, like, oh, what was I being sad about before?

[Dax Shepard]

Right. You almost felt shame.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Shame. But also it just like shocked me into, like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. There's real things, you know. Oh, my gosh. But that experience was wild and something that no one had talked about before, or at least I hadn't paid attention to or read about or anything. But my dad died. There was grief, but there was just also like this terrible fear. I just felt like I was on the edge of the abyss. Like it brought my own mortality, everything rushing at me in a way. It was also this realization that unfortunately, probably too many people have this realization much younger than I was, but that nothing is guaranteed. And whatever you think is there for sure that makes you feel safe.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not like the anvil of impermanency. You.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yes. I was not in any place mentally, spiritually, physically to grapple with or to understand or to have a practice around. And it really rocked me.

[Dax Shepard]

What year did you get sober?

[Tom Pelphrey]

October 1, 2013. It was six years later, give or take.

[Dax Shepard]

What was your trajectory?

[Tom Pelphrey]

It was like a slow burn. I hadn't worked in over a year. I was in a considerable amount of debt, broke, worried about not being able to pay my rent. All the things. The last thing I was hanging my hat on ego wise, was a relationship I had with a woman who was very successful and beautiful and yeah, yeah, like, well, she chose me.

[Dax Shepard]

I buoyed myself quite a bit that way too.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That's what we're doing before we know how to do anything else is just like, where is my value? There, there. Because those are all falling away now. But that end. And then I just remember being in my apartment in Brooklyn at the time and just being so crushed felt so worthless. And, you know, at that time, I didn't realize what it was until later, but I can articulate it now. Just like the constant level of this fear, anxiety, shame, guilt. It's like a buzzing constant. How do you boil the frog? Slowly. That buzzing builds slowly over time. You don't realize how deafening it had become until you're freed of it, hopefully freed of it. So you're just in this constant state of this anxiety, almost paral fear. It's this shrunken.

[Monica Padman]

And you think that's normal?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Absolutely. That's part of the problem. Again, to the awareness of it. Like, you just think that's normal because that's the way you've been slowly living more and more and more. Like out of the blue, in my apartment in Brooklyn. Still to this day, don't fully understand this. Into my brain, read the power of now.

[Dax Shepard]

Where'd that come from, huh?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, but I was like, okay, I Knew I had to do it. I'm gonna do that, but I don't know where that from.

[Monica Padman]

Came.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Came from you. Very strange. And thank God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. This is before your phone could have heard you.

[Monica Padman]

True. No.

[Dax Shepard]

Algorithm. Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And I didn't even have a smartphone back.

[Dax Shepard]

Universe Smartphone. Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

So I go. I go get the book. I literally read the first four pages, and no exaggeration, I throw the book across the room. Rage.

[Dax Shepard]

Why?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, I didn't know exactly why, but I went on online. Is that cartolian insane? And of course, he's like, the one person you can't find any evidence, right? I've been saying, my buddy Rhett, I called him. I got his voice message. Yo, bro, do you know anything about this Eckhart Tolle? Like, is he supposed to be insane? And for a week, I wouldn't touch that.

[Dax Shepard]

I never left that zone. I read the first two pages of that book, and I go, oh, it's another guy claiming to have another otherworldly experience that I'll never have. And now he's going to share the truth with me that only he received from the heavens. It's religion. It's the same old fucking thing. And fuck this guy. And I never went back and I never called a friend. Isn't he sitting on a bench somewhere and he answers, baby, I'm gonna bring

[Tom Pelphrey]

you a copy of a book.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm like, oh, this guy's a prophet and another guy who received some metaphysical signal.

[Monica Padman]

Can I tell you something? You do that here all the time. Tell me you're not on a bench. You're not saying it came to you via the clouds, but you are on here talking about your experience and lessons you've learned through your experience that not everyone else has had.

[Dax Shepard]

Right? True that.

[Monica Padman]

We hope people will hear and take and live by.

[Dax Shepard]

Great point. Thank you. My delineation is, his was otherworldly. You're right. You're dead right. And this dumb little distinction I'm making is, his was otherworldly, but to some

[Monica Padman]

people, yours is otherworldly. They're like, I don't know what that's like. I don't know what those experiences.

[Dax Shepard]

This is very fair criticism, Monica.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I'm just saying it is a really interesting take, and that's a good point. No, I know, I know. Well, for me, okay, you got there. As crazy as I was and am after a week, I was like, bro, you're gonna throw a book across the room, you need to read that book. I literally threw it, by the way. So like, why is that making you so what triggered you? Well, this is what I realized later, but then I started reading the book again, and I realized very quickly what triggered me was every thing he said was the truth. And that meant everything I was doing was wrong. And I don't like that. Yeah, I still don't like that. But it was painful. It was just too much. Why did I throw the book? Because the higher me knew in that moment that reading that book meant my life would change forever. You were gonna have to change. I didn't want it.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was gonna be uncomfortable. And you're gonna have to grow.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. Because I think on some level, we all understand that being fully, truly exposed to the truth, things are going to change. And that sickness in us, that thing in me, as miserable as I was, like, we don't want to change. Keep things like this.

[Dax Shepard]

It's bad enough and I've got to change. It's scary.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I think how terrifying it is to change needs to be given more prominence to understand why it is difficult for people to do. I think that gets downplayed on a level because to talk in big language sometimes, because I think these things are big and the feelings with them are big. And if we use small language, we kind of downplay it. But I think when we change, when we make a big change, especially you die and you are reborn because the you, the me that was drinking on that day did die. It's terrifying.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The terror is. Well, then who am I?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The terror was, what am I going to do on Thanksgiving? What am I going to do on Christmas? How am I ever going to go on a date again?

[Dax Shepard]

Vacation.

[Tom Pelphrey]

What is a vacation? Yeah, what is a celebration?

[Dax Shepard]

How am I going to last longer than one minute in the sack if I don't have three beers in me? I'll never again.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I guess, bro, I never thought I'd do anything again. How am I going to watch football? Are any of my friends going to want to hang out with me? What am I going to do with my friends if they do hang out with me?

[Dax Shepard]

It's your whole life at that point.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Everything, because it is permeated. It has got its tentacles in every single thing. How am I going to go see a play without a flask in my pocket? All the things. How am I going to grieve? How am I going to mourn? How am I going to celebrate? Celebrate was huge for me. That was more of a trigger than almost anything.

[Dax Shepard]

I'd get a job when I was sober. What do I Do I go, I'm going to eat two pizzas. That became my like, we're going to get up. It's going to be on pizza.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I remember going on vacation with my girlfriend. First year of sobriety. It had been going well. It was the first time I had made it past three months. And I was like, coming up on a year, or maybe I had a year, and we showed up in Mexico and I was like, oh, no, I have not taken a vacation in 12 years.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Where step one isn't drop your bag in the room, go get a drink, and then everything unfolds. Drop my bag and do what? Yeah, God. Go home, I think.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Why am I paying for this?

[Tom Pelphrey]

What did you do?

[Dax Shepard]

I sat at the pool and stared at people. So fucking judgmental. I'm, like, looking at this one guy, and he's just a slob and uncanny. And I was like, this motherfucker can control his drinking and I can't. This guy can drink by the pool. Like, I hated this guy. I just white knuckled it. The hotel fucking Diet Coke was 12 bucks. But when we got into the room, they had given us like, a fifth of tequila that they brewed there. I'm like, oh, of course. The fifth's fucking free. And a Diet Coke's 12. I was just like. I was going to explode. I couldn't get off that vacation quick enough now. I love vacation. Boy, it took a minute.

[Tom Pelphrey]

No, I can relate to that.

[Dax Shepard]

So you read Power now, which, by the way, my father was obsessed with Power Now. That might be in the mix too, for me.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Okay. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He Wore the last 12 years of his life. He had a little charm on his gold necklace that was now the Clock. The Now Clock?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He's obsessed with it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

But you read that. How does that lead to then Sobriety?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I read that over the course of like a month and a half, I would go down to McGorlich park in Brooklyn every evening. I wasn't working at the time. I had plenty of time on my head. It was me and my dog, so we had plenty of time go down when the sun was setting and just read part of the. The book. Kind of watched the sun through the trees and sit and breathe and wasn't exactly meditating because I didn't know how, but just kind of being there and feeling the stillness and then this dawning awareness of like, oh, this feels really good. Everything he's saying is true. Every part of my body is responding to what he's saying in A way that's like, beyond my intellect. Doing yoga on these days. Eating better then have plans. I don't even want to go, go, go drink. Three days. I can't even touch the book. I don't go to the park. I don't do yoga. I don't eat well over the course of a month and a half again, so much of his book is about awareness, being present so you can be aware. The awareness is dawning. Like, whoa. What happens when I drink is very shocking. It's like vibrating out beyond the drinking itself. It's really like, kind of damaging everything. And now I can see it. And then I was walking in an audition one day in the city, and it felt like I got struck in the head with a lightning bolt. And again, this sounds comedic. I guess it is comedic, but just, oh, I have a drinking problem.

[Dax Shepard]

Even though you had been saying to all your friends you were drunk, these

[Tom Pelphrey]

are strange truths that we might only be able to understand.

[Dax Shepard]

And how did you know to go to a meeting?

[Tom Pelphrey]

My experience with that was a little bit different as well. It took me a long time, really. I mean, I went to a meeting early on, but it took me a long time to really understand even what the meetings were with Eckhart. And he was using teachings from the Bible of Jesus, had a relationship with Jesus, what he was, what I felt like he was. When I was a kid that had gone away. And so my sobriety was really in that the obsession was relieved instantly. And it was a God thing. It was a spiritual thing. It was a Jesus thing. And then I went to meetings and I. I was confused. I didn't know if I was supposed to be there. I felt really guilty because I heard people really struggling in the beginning, and I was a mess. And I had a ton of work to do. And I'm still doing, like. I'm not saying that.

[Dax Shepard]

Stop taking the medicine.

[Tom Pelphrey]

But I never wanted to drink again ever. After that. It was just like, boom.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you into drugs as well? Or just drink?

[Tom Pelphrey]

Take it or leave it. If it was there, I would do it. If it wasn't, I didn't care for the most.

[Dax Shepard]

Most part.

[Tom Pelphrey]

So for me, it was God first. And then eventually program was like, oh, I literally didn't understand what it was. At first I thought it was only for people who were scared they were going to drink. And then I'm like, well, then I'm not supposed to go. You know. Eventually I met some guys that were like, we're not thinking we're going to drink.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was program for a living.

[Tom Pelphrey]

What are you doing? And they're like, we're crazy. And I was like, oh, I'm crazy too.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Non crazy people don't go this route.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know. And then I got to see how beautiful it was. I actually think that entire program is perfect. It feels like divinely inspired, those steps. I can't think of a better, more perfect expression of living a spiritual life, like keeping yourself good and strong and useful. And it's so beautiful.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have a favorite step or couple?

[Tom Pelphrey]

It was also interesting, finally going and really understanding what the steps were. I didn't have a sponsor and work the steps until I was seven or eight years sober, but I understood them long before then. But was noticing just through my own experience, looking back on the steps, being like, wow. I did a lot of those things. Not thoroughly, not perfectly, but spontaneously, even without the program. Just after a month or two of sobriety, just thinking and being like, I need to call this person and say, I'm really sorry. That wasn't the best version of me. I let you down. I can't imagine how difficult that was. And kind of naturally just wanting to do that, which to me is the greatest testimony to what the steps are that I could give, which is like, there is something so deeply real about that process. Those steps are just an articulation of something that is deeper. Like it's coming from a deeper place. And we're just going to name what it is and, like, how to do it. I think all of the steps rest upon the steps that come before. Obviously, the first one is that lightning bolt moment I had. But then for me, 2 and 3 were the most important ones I ever did, and they're kind of joined.

[Dax Shepard]

That makes sense, given your ease and comfort with religion or Jesus. It explains to, like, that's hard for me.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So it makes sense that that part of Eckhart story didn't bother you. And that was the thing I got hung up on. If anything ever took me out of the program, it was the higher power stuff. Hard for me.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

What is 2 and 3?

[Dax Shepard]

Came to believe in a power greater than ourselves, turned our life and our will over to that power, came to

[Tom Pelphrey]

believe that we could be restored to sanity by a power greater than ourselves. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Got it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Here's the thing, man. What you're saying right now, I understand completely and fully. I totally get it. And, like, that always breaks my heart because as a kid, that feeling that I have that I'm describing, I hated church. It was very confusing for me, even as a young person, to, like, try and separate out the religion.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Tom Pelphrey]

From what I felt like I was experiencing and. Or reading again, voracious reader. I love to read my Bible, too. I didn't even grow up in a very religious household. I just liked it. So hearing you say that, and I understand there's a million reasons why, and I've heard so many people say that, I totally get it. And then you wish, like, having sponsors over the years, whatever.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, you want someone to have a kid and experience it, you just want

[Tom Pelphrey]

it because you're like. It made it easier.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That's all. And then, like, trying to help other people and they don't even want to say any of those words. And I get it. And I don't need to. We don't need to talk like that. We just talk, however weird. Want to talk. But then you're like, boy, I wish I could give you even a taste of it. Even if we called it something else, because it will help you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes, yes. Now, mind you, I do the things, right? Like, every morning, I do my first three steps. I do the prayers, and I do the 10th step. I do them all because they cost me nothing. And I'd rather do this thing than die drinking in the morning, you know? So it's like, it's very easy for me to cooperate. But for me, the four step is the thing, I think that changed my life entirely. That to me, if there was a single step that they should teach in fucking elementary. It's this notion of making a list of all the people that you have resentments against. Why do you have resentments against them? What are they threatening? Because in your mind, you don't see any pattern. But if you have to write out your four step and you look at that column, that third column, and you go, oh, my God. All of my issues in life are being driven by three of my fears. It's not like I have 50 fears. I hate Margaret, and I hated my teacher. I hated my stepdad. It all threatens one of the same three things. My whole life is being governed by three things I'm afraid of. So I can either try to control 7 billion people to act in accordance to not trigger those three fears, or I can get to work on those three fears and be relieved of all this. That's absolutely proprietary. Novel. Crazy, special.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. I don't know that there was many times in life I was more terrified than when I went to do my fifth step. So the fourth step is what Dax just explained the fifth step is sharing it with another human being. Before God, it says, shaking like a leaf. What a vulnerable place to put oneself.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Getting to the part where I acknowledge all this stuff was my issue was hard then telling someone about it wasn't terribly hard for me. But I know, and I've received many dudes fifth steps, and I've seen the anxiety come to coming in, and I know the experience, which is just, oh, this person's not walking out of the room in horror over who I am. What a gift. I get the gift of it big time. Yeah. I'm not intrinsically flawed and terrible and unlovable. I'm just a dude who did all the same shit all of us other dudes did that got here. Yeah. That's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

But you have to say it in order to feel it. So saying it for the first time, that's horrifying.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Have you seen the drama, the new movie?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I'm obsessed with it. Zendaya Robert Pattinson movie.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Okay. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I think best not to know anything about it when you see it. But a secret is revealed. Basically, the whole movie spirals based on that secret. And I. I just think about it all the time. Like, God, yeah. Are there things that people just shouldn't ever know about you? Because we hear say the opposite. It's like, just share it. People will say, you're not that bad, or I'm like you, or whatever. But then I was like, oh, no. Maybe there are some. Some things that shouldn't be shared.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

It's confusing.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, I think you want to choose carefully who you're sharing what with. That's for sure. I mean, the fifth step isn't like an indiscriminate, like, let me just grab a guy off the street. It's hopefully at that point, the person who you trust the most, the person who's guided you to even get to that place. So it's. It's a very kind of sacred, special, specific point.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I think the problem is often, and this is what you see with the tension in our country is like, we have this technology, which is. I can see the kid in Wisconsin post a video that is totally fine in his town and should be fine in his town. And the dude in Miami who's making this joke, it's good there, but it's being seen by people from other cultures and other populations and other places, and there isn't some unifying. So, no. In A program like this. Yeah. There's no secret you shouldn't share because they've been through it. We speak the same language. And that's not to say that it's for everyone. And it's not to say that everything has to be for everyone. It's cool to find your group and have that trust among you. And it doesn't necessarily have to extend everybody 100%.

[Tom Pelphrey]

You can see, even in the course of this conversation, the amount of seemingly weird things that either I or Dax

[Dax Shepard]

have said where we're like, yeah, yeah, it's great.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, community.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If I'm telling my mother in law, like, no, I say I was a drunk. And then I had this one moment, I was like, oh, jokes on me. You really are. I don't get it. You knew, but you didn't know. But if you've walked that.

[Tom Pelphrey]

No, you can 100% know.

[Dax Shepard]

And not in your body when you say it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

100% percent.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm imagining that plays into your upward trajectory. Professionally.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yes. It was almost immediate. October 1, 2013. That happens the next three days. Craziest detox. And I was a binge drinker. So I'd gone days without drinking before suddenly it was different. The thing was different. Out of my body three nights every night.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa, bro.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The amount of war water that was on Jersey water, the amount of water that was on that bed. I'd wake up always perfectly in the middle of the night. Sasha sleeping next to me and my dog soaking wet. Nightmares. Lucid dream. I didn't even know if I was sleeping or not.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, oh, yeah, where you're falling and

[Tom Pelphrey]

then you're not falling.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I don't think my abs can activate that way other than detox.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And also, what is it so everywhere.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Wake up in the middle of the night. I'd put the blanket back on top so Sasha could go on that side. I'd get on the other side side. Soak the other side of the bed to wake up in the morning. I'm not even sure if I ever even slept because the dreaming. Anyway, three days that Friday, have an audition. Starts the process of an audition, which I end up booking a pilot where they had like five male leads and they read me for four of the male leads and I didn't book any of them, but I booked the fifth one.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, weird.

[Tom Pelphrey]

The one I hadn't read is the one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It seemed like they just wanted me to be there, which was awesome for me. It was wild. I mean, the confirmation and this is not. We do it. And I'm not saying this is going to happen for everybody, and this is just the way it worked out for me. And maybe that's what I needed at that time. But within two or three weeks, all of a sudden, I'd gone from not working in a year and a half to booking a pilot.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, here's where I can touch higher power. As much as I have a hard time with it. I also weirdly believe you're not given things you can't handle yet. So to me, that's a product of that. It's like, your God knew I couldn't give him this role. A week ago. He had fucked the whole fucking thing up.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Dax. I live by that. I believe that's true.

[Monica Padman]

Some people aren't that lucky. They do get put in those positions.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Charlie Shena, you know, I think that all the time I watched that documentary about him, and I just saw it just seemed like he's like, oh, let me try acting. And then a year later, he's like, one of the biggest movie stars in the world. Like, from someone like me and you watching that, I'm sure you felt the. I watched it. I was like, oh, no, that's horrible. Horrible.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a curse, really. Yeah, it is. Platoon and then Wall street, whatever, they just kept coming. You're like, oh, he's dead.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, good luck.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I used to think, with the, like, Marlon Brando of it all, I just wonder if. If it's just so easy for you to do, if you understand it so intrinsically, without any effort, then you're robbed of the appreciation of the discipline it took you to be good at it. Like, if a basketball player could just walk on the floor and wherever they were, throw the ball up and it goes in the net. That basketball player is never going to train a day in their life, and they're not going to have respect for the game because they can do a thing that no one else can do. And they're like, why is this a thing to be proud of?

[Dax Shepard]

I think you see that with a lot of artists, they feel fraudulent because they didn't necessarily work as hard as someone else next to them did. And I think that does fuck people up. I think that's why a lot of comedians go into dramas, because for Jim Carrey to be Jim Carrey is easy, as much as that's crazy. He knows how to do that, which is wild. And I think he felt some guilt of, like, I'm the highest paid actor in the world. World for eight years in a row. And this thing I can just do. You could wake me up in the middle of the night and say, be funny right now. I could do it, no problem. No prep. I mean, I don't know. I have no idea why.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But there is this insatiable desire for a lot of comedians where to me, it seems like it comes very natural to them that they gotta go grind to demonstrate that they deserve it.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's all a mental, like, great. If it's easy for you, let it be easy for you.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I know, but it's hard because sometimes it's the struggle that gives the meaning. Meaning context, or gives you the context to find the meaning.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. So I'm dangerously close to fucking you over for your next thing, but I just need to know this is on task. I thought this was really interesting. So you did a interview magazine with

[Tom Pelphrey]

my hero, Gary Oldman. Oh, wow. How cool.

[Dax Shepard]

So rad. But in that interview, you guys were talking and you said that Ruffalo is super playful and silly and goofy on set to the degree that you finally had to ask him.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah. I'm always so curious. I get to work with so many talented people, and I always want to learn from them. And you always can somebody. They'll always share, and they'll always be something you could take away and try and get better. But, like, with Mark, I was like, wow. And this is an actor who I've admired for years and years and years. And also I started in theater, so I know Mark's theater actor, New York. So all these ways in which I really look up to him and then see him on set, and he's so generous. He's so kind and sweet and goofy. He's like a kid. He's playing and he's joking. He's just so silly and. And it's sweet. And so I was like, man. Because I can't be that way. Not when I'm doing something like Taz. I kind of want to just live in the energy of what we need to be doing, like, somewhere. It's not that literal. I'm not like, method or anything. It's just like, let me live in that energy. But Mark, it didn't matter. And then he would do the scenes, and they're amazing. So I was like, what is going on? I said, have you always been this way? And he goes, nah, nah. I used to be more like you.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm like, what do you mean?

[Tom Pelphrey]

He's like, well, I used to be More intense. He's like, because you're focusing. I was like, yeah, I don't know how to not focus. And that doesn't even come from. And he like, this is how I do it. It comes from, like, I'm being paid to do a job, and it's my responsibility to make sure I do my job for you. And so I know what I need to do to make sure I could do my job for you. That's all it is. But Mark was like, I've been doing this for so long. He's like, at a certain point, if it wasn't going to be fun, I can't keep doing it. Apologies, Mr. Ruffalo, if I'm paraphrasing you wrong, but basically, it needs to be fun. It needs to be enjoyable for me. Or it's unsustain. Was also a relief because I'm definitely less held than I was 10 years ago. So to hear Mark say, no, I used to be like you. And then to see where he's at now, I was like, okay, okay, maybe this is just maturation. Maybe this is just years under your belt. Maybe this is just experience. And eventually you go looser and looser and looser. Wear it like a what? Like a loose fitting garment?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

So it's like, okay, well, then there's something to work towards. This constant knowing that you've done the work that you need to do in a way that you can just be easy, be easy, be easy.

[Monica Padman]

I think you can only get that with so much practice. You can just walk in and be like, I just got it. Yeah, you learn that over time.

[Tom Pelphrey]

You learn it over time, and you build trust in yourself. And I definitely trust all those things a lot more, like I said, than I did 10 years ago.

[Dax Shepard]

I need two hours with you because I got to see the other thing. Okay. So I'm seeing you act, and I'm like, this dude, there is a tenderness to you that is so attractive and appealing. It's just so beautiful. I mean, within five seconds of meeting your character, I'm like, yeah, I want to help this dude figure out whatever needs figuring out. He's like a good boy.

[Monica Padman]

Complex character.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Like, your heart was just so exposed in it. Third thing was, this guy's fucking body's awesome. I then did 10 minutes with male body. I did 10 minutes to my wife on the body. I go, okay, so this guy.

[Tom Pelphrey]

You, bro. Look at you.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to give you the ultimate compliment because this is what I thought. I'm like, this guy's real. And this real dude doesn't go to the gym for an hour a day, but he has this body. And I go, he's one of these dudes I knew in junior high that was for no reason, genetically, was just fucking jacked. And you have those kids in your schools, like you're in gym class, everyone's getting undressed. Yeah. Like, what does this guy lift all day long? Just natural six pack and fucking hex. And I'm like, that's what this guy is. He's just one of these stallions.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I love you, brother. I'm not, I'm not. Yeah. You know, it always is a little distracting to me sometimes when bodies are a little too perfect where you're like, this guy's doing this life. And you look like you're.

[Dax Shepard]

But you're slinging trash cans. I mean, we can.

[Tom Pelphrey]

No, he's active. And also, growing up in Jersey, we're very similar to the boys from Philly and Pennsylvania. Like, we all lift away. Almost everybody lift.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone's got a bench in their garage.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I had a bench in my garage since I was 12 years old. And guess what? If you don't have a bench in your garage, you're doing p. You're doing pull ups. Which is really what I did for Robbie. Cause it's like he's gonna just bang him out when he can't pop some pushups while he's on lunch. Or prison workout.

[Dax Shepard]

You just kind of can't get away from it. Prison workout. Exactly.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Get up against the couch, hit some dips.

[Monica Padman]

He doesn't have a personal trainer?

[Tom Pelphrey]

No.

[Monica Padman]

You know, he should look like he had a personal trainer.

[Dax Shepard]

Tom, I'm so glad we got to meet.

[Monica Padman]

I know. This was great.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't pour enough praise on you on task. This happens to me like once every five years. I can name the people, you know, where it's. I don't know the person. I'm just like, what? What is this? What? Yeah, it's so fun when that happens. It happens once in a while for me, the last couple years. I say you and Timmy Chalamet are just like, what? Wow.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Well, I'm in good company there.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll take it. I gotta give it up to Goggins. Goggins is blowing my fucking mind too.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Goggins is awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he's a monster.

[Monica Padman]

That little boy in the new Game of Thrones show.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you just love him.

[Tom Pelphrey]

How good is that show?

[Monica Padman]

I love him so much.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so good. Did you watch it?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I'm only two episodes in, but I love it.

[Dax Shepard]

It gets better and better and better. It's so good, but delightful to finally meet you. I hope you get all the love and awards that you so rightly deserve. For Task. What are you working on now?

[Tom Pelphrey]

I'm about to go to New York, do a movie with Apple. This really cool, like, action, sci fi, very different vibe from Task.

[Dax Shepard]

I have one last question I would be regretful I didn't ask. When you left, we were both in a similar situation, which is we have partners who are way more famous than us. Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm good with it. And it seems you are too.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I love it. First of all, so badass. So impressive what she's been able to do. It's like, girl, go get them. It's so awesome. And secondly, I would not want that. Truly, truly. Like, I'm so grateful if I get to keep being an actor, get to keep making enough money, get to keep having access to good scripts and just fly like right under that radar. Oh, I'd be thrilled.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That is a serious thing that they both experience, like getting to see it up close. Kaylee's kind of like naturally magnanimous. She can live that fully 247 in a way, without it being a strain. Because it's not a lie, it's just part of who she is. Whereas like I said before, like, I need to retreat to regroup and all that stuff. And I don't think that would be good. Are you getting now, because of the nature of this, that when you're speaking, sometimes somebody whips their head? Cause your voice is what's doing it too.

[Dax Shepard]

The funnest one I had was being at my daughter's school. They had like a kickoff for the new year and then the little field day and there's a hamburger cart thing and I stepped up to get my hamburger and I said, oh, could I get it without a bun? To this like 14 year old girl? And she goes, yeah. And I go, okay, thanks. And she goes, wait, you're not on Armchair Anonymous, are you? Like, never seen me, never seen anything in it that doesn't know I'm an actor. But yeah, 14 year old, that's a

[Monica Padman]

Friday show that's a little different that a lot of kids like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I thought she was just misnaming this show. Okay, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like listeners tell crazy stories and so she Somehow, as a 14 year old girl at this school, loves that show. And that one the most tripped me. I was like, oh, that's so rad. This, like, young girl doesn't even know I'm an actor.

[Tom Pelphrey]

That's so.

[Dax Shepard]

Anything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was great. Well, you're a delight. And I really do hope we can double date or something.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah, brother, I would love that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You're a good boy. I could tell. But you used to be a bad boy, so that's my favorite kind of boy. All right, Good luck with everything. Love you, bro. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts.

[Monica Padman]

Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello. Were you at an event?

[Monica Padman]

I went to an event last night.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, looks like you have makeup on today.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I'm. Yeah. And I'm. I'm going to one after our recording, so I had to put a little bit of.

[Dax Shepard]

God, you're fucking ending all of this with events.

[Monica Padman]

I know. And I am. And I. I'm also dying. Like, I don't. Something's wrong with me. I just made a doctor's appointment. I, like, bit the bullet. I was like. I gotta. I. What's going on? Why are these lingering for so long?

[Dax Shepard]

They shouldn't be lingering, but it's lingering for everyone. Just make you feel safe. Like, again. I had it for three and a half weeks, but.

[Monica Padman]

Me too. And then it went away and then it came back, and then it went away again and then it came back. It's like. It's just in me. Like, I.

[Dax Shepard]

It's dancing.

[Monica Padman]

It's. I know. And I. I hate. I, like, I didn't used to care about antibiotics, but now that I live in la, it's like. And, like, afraid of them.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm on antibiotics. You are in my eyeball.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, it doesn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I have a horrible sty.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. Did you put a hot compress?

[Dax Shepard]

I did. I'm going and I. Everyone's telling me to do.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It's just so funny when you. There's certain things, right? You say it and then every. It's like almost like when someone falls, you say, are you okay? Oh, I have a thing. Hot compress. You know, there's a few. There's a handful of things. And I'm being heavily monitored. I mean, I live with three ladies.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not mad at you.

[Monica Padman]

Be up your butt.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no, no, I'm not mad at you. I'm laughing at the frequency. I get it. Everyone would naturally want to just help me.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone wants to make you feel Better.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a way to help. It's just funny. Each girl that walks through the room like, have you done a hot.

[Monica Padman]

Come on?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's really funny.

[Monica Padman]

They want you to do it and

[Dax Shepard]

then you said it right away. And I was like, this just cracked me up.

[Tom Pelphrey]

It'll go on its own. Don't worry.

[Dax Shepard]

Without that.

[Monica Padman]

See, this is why you need all these women around.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. If it was just all men, they'd be like, throw a rock at it.

[Monica Padman]

Makes me feel better that you're on antibiotics. Like, yeah, maybe I just carpet bomb this system. Let's get rid of it. It's like it's in there and it keeps coming back. It's like, clear. It's just kind of dormant and, like, ready to pop.

[Dax Shepard]

It isn't nice, though. It's like a nice way to get a dose of gratitude and go like, oh, this is what people would like, chronic pain. Like, you know, just sometimes to experience, like, oh, yeah. If you don't feel well for weeks on end, it's really. It really permeates everything you're doing and thinking about. But, yeah, I started feeling it again. I love relearning the same lessons just over and over again. But, you know, I was in Nashville, slept like a little baby to the point where I didn't even wake up to pee, like five of the nights. And I was like, this is crazy. I thought I always have to wake up for pee. For pee pee. And then virtually the second I got home and we had this crazy week, my sleep just went to shit. And I was drinking a ton of caffeine in Nashville, some on vacay, and I was like, oh, yeah, it's all stress. And. And then, yeah, a sty. And Kristin gets styes before she goes to work. Do you ever get them?

[Monica Padman]

I've never had one.

[Dax Shepard]

They are so stress related. It's crazy. Like, it's shocking how immediate and direct it is to stress. What's your stress thing? Do you get. Will you get a rash or.

[Tom Pelphrey]

I don't really.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think anal warts or.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I know. I just always have.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Whether I'm stressed or not, I don't think I present physically with your stress symptoms. Like, sometimes when I, you know, I'll think like, oh, with my face. Like, if I'm like breaking out or something. Like, oh, maybe it's stress, but I don't think it is.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't think it is?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I just think it's just like, I get like anxious and depressed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I don't think I get physical syndrome.

[Dax Shepard]

But, like, even I'm saying this as a rational person, even walk me through the mechanism of how being stressed is going to give me a small infection on the inside of my eyelid. Like, it doesn't even. I don't even understand how it could make sense other than it's just over and over again. I see this as a result of something.

[Monica Padman]

Body keeps the score.

[Dax Shepard]

They said body. Okay. I can't do it. We need Ricky Glassman.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, bkts.

[Dax Shepard]

Bkts.

[Monica Padman]

Pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

Sounds like K Pop band.

[Monica Padman]

Not as good as Ricky.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so I've been having real, for the first time ever, FOMO about Coachella, which I've never had, but I keep watching this clip of Bieber and I, like, wish I was there so bad. Wow. And then I'm so stupid. I didn't know. It's two weekends in a row.

[Monica Padman]

You learned a lot. Yesterday we had a guest on Easter Egg who performed at Coachella and will be performing again next weekend.

[Dax Shepard]

And I didn't want to ask that guest if Bieber was going to perform again. Does he perform again?

[Monica Padman]

You're supposed to. It's supposed to be. Same line.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the same thing.

[Monica Padman]

It's supposed to be, but, I mean, I don't know Bieber.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you know, the moment I'm talking, he's like. I think it's towards the end, he's down, he's like, there's a camera and they start playing. It sounds like a little bit of a remix of one of his old songs, but it's from, you know, he did this mashup of his YouTube stuff

[Monica Padman]

and they play it. Right? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like singing along to little hymn.

[Monica Padman]

Right, right.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm presuming there was some visual component to it as well.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

He's playing again the second weekend.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, I think it's the same. Yeah.

[Tom Pelphrey]

And the Strokes are right before him.

[Dax Shepard]

Saturday night go.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Saturday night he plays at 11:25pm oh, perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I was just thinking Molly's birthday party, I can't go. But now you might as well make. I want to find out if someone fancy, like, is zipping in last minute that I can tag along with. I mean, I might call in a lot of favors for this.

[Monica Padman]

I do think this one, it's like, back, like Coachella. Feels like it, like, kind of was for a minute. I shouldn't say that. I don't care about Coachella. So I'm only, like, on the periphery yeah, yeah. But I think.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have the thoughts I had that I expressed yesterday? Which is like, when I'm seeing the photos from people at Coachella, I'm like, I don't have the outfits for Coachella like you. Everyone's looking like they have a vibe. And even our. Our guest said wardrobe something. It was a phrase about taking pictures of your wardrobe.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, she just said, like, outfit pics.

[Dax Shepard]

But there's another word. Yeah, no, there was another word. I don't want to get bogged down what I do or don't know. I guess you're proving the point I'm trying to make anyways, which is like, I do look at those pictures. I. And I'm like, I don't know if I have any business being there. A lot of people are in, like, bikini, like, very high fashion.

[Monica Padman]

You don't have to wear that.

[Dax Shepard]

Just go.

[Monica Padman]

You do what you want to do. But you can still see the music if you want. I'm not a music

[Dax Shepard]

consumer.

[Monica Padman]

No. What's it called? Music Festival Goer.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That's not for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Too many people, Right?

[Monica Padman]

So many people. Crowds. And then I'm like, I can't see. People are talking. It's dusty.

[Dax Shepard]

Although I did have that incredible experience at Bonnaroo when we were sent there to promote Hit and Run.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause it's just rolling, grassy, green fields, and it was just like, ideal weather. Green, no dust.

[Monica Padman]

That's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Really spread out. So you didn't feel very crowded, even though presumably there are a bazillion people there.

[Monica Padman]

There's one in Napa that I might go to because I like Napa. Yeah. Bottle Rock. That's what Molly got it.

[Dax Shepard]

Molly loves it.

[Monica Padman]

And Erica goes sometimes with Molly. Molly. And you should go to that with them. Yeah. Because then I just won't go to the music and I'll just go shopping.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no. You go there and drink wine and stroll around and stuff, and just whatever way the crowds move and you just move the other way.

[Monica Padman]

I think I'd rather just go to Napa. A different time.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah. You know, speaking of Napa, I keep reading. You know, the wine industry is, like, collapsed.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Well, it's collapsing. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I shouldn't say past tense, but it's in a real rough state.

[Monica Padman]

I know. I need to. I, like, I gotta get there. I gotta help. Help out.

[Dax Shepard]

What I'm proposing to you is that you might want to attend one of these auctions and buy a winery as a distressed asset, because they're auctioning off these wineries that were worth gabillions of dollars. They've also just been trashing tons of yields.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's really depressing.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Because it's so beautiful.

[Dax Shepard]

But then the pig in me is like, should I try to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you should try a big chunk

[Dax Shepard]

of land in a fire sale in Napa.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Because I want to stay there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Of course.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Just pull.

[Dax Shepard]

Pull our money and buy an armchair winery. Yeah, Armchair winery.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

Arm. Cherry. And we have notes. Cherry in there.

[Dax Shepard]

No Cherry.

[Monica Padman]

Listen, that is sim. That you brought that up because I went to an auction last night. Night.

[Dax Shepard]

That was at your event that you.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, that was the event I went to. Friend of the pod. Beautiful, lovely, wonderful friend of the pod. And friend of life, Lake Bell.

[Dax Shepard]

Ah. How was that?

[Monica Padman]

I was hosting it. It was so fun. It was so cool. So it was for Red, the charity Red, Remember? Okay. Red used to be, like, all the rage.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

It was every. We were talking about this, like, millennials knew about the charity Red. It's like, maybe the only charity we knew about.

[Dax Shepard]

The branding collabs with brands you could only get in Red.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. My Nano was Red. I had Nano. Yeah. It was Geni. Anyway, and they did a. Like, they've done a lot of really great work, but unfortunately. And that's why I shouldn't be making fun of AIDS all the time on here. It's like. It's, like, on its way back.

[Dax Shepard]

What?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But goodness.

[Dax Shepard]

We have all this treatment for it.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but. Well, globally, it's on its way back. Yeah. And. But here. But yeah, there's treatments, but that's kind of why it's like, people. People aren't, like, as concerned. But then there's a vaccine.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, there is now.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

For hiv.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

By the way, that brings up measles. There's, like, 200 kids now have passed from measles.

[Monica Padman]

They've died.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Totally preventable. It drives me nuts.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So that's sort of their.

[Dax Shepard]

Thinks they have side effects for the measles vax. Go find me 200 people that have died from the measles vax over the last 25 years. You can't do it.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Exactly. Exactly. So, but yeah, there's holdups for the vaccine right now, but it's like that. So that's kind of their push. That's their push is like, we can end this. It's not like we can slow it down or. Or, like, treat symptoms like. No, it can be done.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

So. Which is very, very Cool. But anyway, so I went to this auction and it was really cool because. So I guess Lake has been doing. Doing this for like 20 years. And her mom started it and she does it at, like, different charities. Four different charities. And it's called Auction for Nothing.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And the way it was presented to me was like last. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

What if when you're at the doctor, you read your symptom? What are your symptoms? I keep dropping a piece of metal on my computer at work.

[Monica Padman]

It's weird. I just, like, have no motor control. Oh, maybe I don't have any motor control. Oh, my God. And I can't talk either.

[Dax Shepard]

But is it falling off your finger or you're doodling with it?

[Monica Padman]

I'm playing with it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. All right.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's kind of like measles. It is avoidable, but tiny bit big.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So it was. It was presented as like, you know, you. You bring some like, kind of like non item item, and people auction for it. And it's super fun. Like she said someone brought like a fake hundred dollar bill from their purse. Someone brought a plane ticket to somewhere, like, old, like, you know, kind of nothing items and just like a fun way to raise money.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so people are bidding on shit that's junk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But like funky and fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, hopefully it's a bit of a bit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So I was like, what should I bring? What should I bring? So I. I was like, oh, I know. I have a key card in my wallet from the Four Seasons, Beverly Hills. It's an 1111 key card that I stayed in on my birthday, as we know. It's lucky. It's. And I was like, this is a sacrifice.

[Dax Shepard]

But it doesn't say 1111 on it does. It does, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because it's in its sleeve.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. So it says it was written with a pen. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like. I felt like, wow. I. I'm.

[Dax Shepard]

This is your party.

[Monica Padman]

Sacrificing something that's important to me, but whatever. So you get there, you write your item on this card and you put its, like your estimated value. And I said, estimated value. $1,000. 100. I mean, yeah, $11. And anyway, put it in. Great. It starts. And actually, actually, who do you think? Who do you think? Who do you think made the first bid?

[Dax Shepard]

You.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

To get it back.

[Monica Padman]

It was me. No, it wasn't for that. So. So she picks out of the hat, reads them all. So the first One was Naomi Scott, actually.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And it was. She said she would curate for you. You give her a year. And she would curate the, like, all the magazines of a. Of a magazine brand.

[Tom Pelphrey]

God.

[Monica Padman]

I took d. I don't know. But. And for that year, and I was

[Dax Shepard]

like, oh, they collect all 12 issues of magazine for you.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Like, off ebay or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I was like, oh, that's kind of fun. I like magazines. I bid first.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great. Got this auction going. And then she threw. You know, she was like, I mean, it's really, like. It's fun for the actual ads. And then I remember. Got milk?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, oh, I can. I can, like, request. Get some of these old got milks. And so then I, you know, I kept bidding and bidding, and I won.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great. How much you spend on that?

[Monica Padman]

400.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great start to the night. And then I was like, oh, I participated. I'm done, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you're not done. You're just getting started.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You were just getting started.

[Monica Padman]

I do not think I should go to auctions.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you got competitive.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Okay. Because boots. There were boots from a. From a boot brand.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

From a fancy brand.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so there is real ones too.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Okay. See, this is where things got tricky, because then things started to get very, like, real. And then I was like, oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

How many people are at this function? And is it in a living room or, like, a big space?

[Monica Padman]

It was at. It wasn't at a huge space. Was at an intimate space. Rented and in, like, Hollywood cool space.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I started to panic because I was like, people are doing real things. And I put in a key card.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're starting to panic.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. And I was like, what do I do now? I look like an idiot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And no one's gonna. And I also want. Then I got competitive on the other end. Like, I want people to want my item.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course.

[Monica Padman]

So she starts to read it, you know? And I was like, oh, my God. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna throw in one night stay.

[Dax Shepard]

You interrupted.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Well, she read it, and I was like, and. And I'll. I'm gonna throw in one night stay at the hotel. That felt like a really good pairing, you know, I was like, I can't guarantee It'll be room 1111, but.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And it went for $1100.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Which is probably what it will kind of cost me to buy that room. So, you know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Push yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was really fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that does sound fun. I want to share that. I. I'm delighted finally kind of can truly relate. You keep hearing this term parasocial relationship, and certainly intellectually, I understand what it means and what the definition is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I don't know that I've ever been able to relate to it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But I am finding myself in a crazy parasocial relationship, yet I also know the person. So this is very.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, these are the trickier ones.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. So it's Sedaris. So, like, you know, we've had him on. I've gone for a walk with him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we've had him on many times.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I get occasional postcards from them, and I've sent one or two, and so I have access to them. But it started with us listening, as I've said before, listening with the girls at night to Sedaris audiobooks. But now it's become. That's what I listen to before bed, period. I don't listen to anything else anymore, and I haven't for months. And I'm re Listening to the same books over and over again. And I already know the stories, and I love them just as much. Much. And it's like every eighth word he chooses, I get a ping of joy. And I'm so now immersed in his life. I think it's the whole parasocial part. The reason it's possible is it's not fictitious. Right. So everything he's writing about is Hugh and his sisters and his dad.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Now you know. You know everything about him. You think?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I'm like, I'm so upset. I can't be at breakfast with he and Amy or out shopping with them. Or he has this friend who he goes on these weird day trips to different countries when he's in France with. And I'm like, I want so bad to be spending all of his time with him and hearing him compute the world.

[Monica Padman]

That is what it is.

[Dax Shepard]

And his breakdown. I was just re listening to his breakdown of COVID and being in New York City and the BLM thing and just the way he so perfectly skewers kind of everybody, but also participates.

[Monica Padman]

But I have a question. Okay. Do you do. So you want to be with him?

[Dax Shepard]

I want to spend a lot of time with him.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but.

[Dax Shepard]

And I want to somehow be creative with him too.

[Monica Padman]

That's not really parasocial. Parasocial is like, you feel like you're like, I know him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I feel way closer to him than he could possibly feel to me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And you're like, oh, my God. Like, Amy would definitely do something like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I just think I would fit in perfectly with those two in my mind. Of course.

[Monica Padman]

Think, like. Like, you, like, you know, their personalities. Like, if someone out in the world did something, you'd be like, that sounds like my buddy.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. I mean, I'm thinking about him many, many times throughout the day.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Every day for months.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. This is. Yeah. Welcome to the club. You know, and pretty fun, actually.

[Dax Shepard]

I love it. And it's frustrating. I can also understand, like, when I hear people will say they have a parasocial relationship with you, and it's like, yeah, I really feel it now. I understand that. And it's frustrating because, like, I love him, you know? Like, I. I just love how his brain works, and I want to, like, be able to real time experience life with him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He's so great.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

[Monica Padman]

But you can see why in the podcast space, why it's extra, Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like, this conversation we're having is so normal. We're not choosing. I mean, we are. We're making choices ultimately as to what people hear and don't hear, but, like, we're just talking off the cuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Me and you, we have no normal plan. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And so if someone's listening to that, of course it tricks their bra.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, they're here with us, and it's real time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

They know us. They know what we think.

[Dax Shepard]

They can predict what you or I will respond to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And, like, it's complicated.

[Dax Shepard]

I understand how genuine it is.

[Monica Padman]

It's very genuine. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very genuine. Sometimes it's not sick. Sometimes you. You. You kind of frame it as, like, it's scary.

[Monica Padman]

Well, it. It can be.

[Dax Shepard]

Not to me. Like. Well, I know how I feel about David. There's nothing he could be. He should be scared of.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, you are talk very specifically, but parasocial relationships can get very slippery and scary. I mean, hello, Beth's dead was 100%. That. That show is about parasocial relationships.

[Dax Shepard]

That's fair.

[Monica Padman]

And it. And that is. And, like, what you're owed, what you're owed by the people you know, you're in a different position, but also.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think Sedaris owes me anything. I think I owe him something. The amount the hours of joy this man has given me is, like, crazy. I paid $13 for the book. It's kind of bonkers.

[Monica Padman]

But, like. Okay. I currently have an app relationship right now with Aaron and Sarah Foster.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

I started listening to their podcast.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I, I, I listen. Part of it. Yes. Is when you're listening. Like, I listen at night. And like, so they're in your head before you're going to bed. And, like, they're just in your. Again with podcasting, specifically, they're in your world when you're doing, like, your intimate things.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And so. But like, you know, my best friend works with them every day. Two of my best friends work with them every day. Like, it's this weird. It's kind of this weird. They're close enough. And like, I was, I was, I was listening to an old episode and I was like, anna, can you ask Aaron.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Monica Padman]

Can you ask Aaron about this doctor thing she was talking about? Because I think I need to go to the doctor, and I kind of am interested in trying this. And she talked about it on the pod. Can you ask her? Anna thinks this is all so weird and funny, Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because Anna works. Sits next to her all day long,

[Monica Padman]

and she thinks it's weird when people have it with me.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I'll tell you what I have to do. And I guess now we're really. We're in a zone that we could guide each other, which is I have to fight the urge. And I have successfully fight. Fought the urge to send him a voice memo almost every day to tell him how much I like this story. Or I like how he said this. This thing. Or I like. And I just know better. Right. I. I just know that even if he loves me to death.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He can only really absorb so much. Of course. That thing.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm sure he feels like there is the literary him and there's the him.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. So again, that's why that's different. He. I mean, it's stories about him, but they're crafted. They're. They're.

[Dax Shepard]

They're perfect.

[Monica Padman]

They're perfect. Yeah. They're not us doing this. Like, where. Then they walk down. We walk down the. Someone says something about Tonka, and it's like, oh, yeah, I forgot I said that. He's not forgetting what he put in his books. It's on purpose. But I think he. You could send him a nice note.

[Dax Shepard]

It takes all my restraint. Well, look, I've read what I know I need to do. And what's insane, because I'm obsessed is I know they need to send him more postcards.

[Monica Padman]

Right? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm not making the time to do that. And. And he gave this great speech. It's in one of his books. He. He gave a speech to one of the. Some college, and he was basically telling them, like, you know, write a letter to your grandmother. Write a letter to. Like, that was his only advice for these graduates. Basically, he's like, take the time to sit down and write so that your grandma can be sitting there and reading this thing and holding it. It's not a fucking text message. And blah, blah, blah.

[Monica Padman]

That's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

And so I heard that. And I'm like, I'm. I can't even. If I'm. If I. If I'm. I want to honor him. I already know what he thinks is disposable.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyways, it's also crazy to have all these feelings about him because I actually,

[Monica Padman]

you know, it's okay. This isn't. And I. I don't mean for him, but there can be a. Don't meet your heroes. I mean, meet your heroes, but don't get so close in parasocial relationships. Right. So. Because, like, you know, I'm like, Well, I like. I'm, like, friends with. I'm like, friends with Aaron and Sarah. Like, we're friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

And. And then. Then I do laugh at myself because I take a step back and I'm like, well, we actually, for real could be friends. We have, like, so many people in common. I could meet them, but I was like, oh, no, that would ruin. Would change. Okay, ruin is maybe not.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know if that's okay, because I. Well, I experienced this with Elizabeth and Andy. I had a full parasocial relationship with them for so long.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And now we're all very, very good friends. And I still love their podcast so much. I listen immediately, but it's not the same listening experience because you don't have

[Dax Shepard]

the yearning to connect to it. You have the connection. So it's like the yearning has been taken away.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I like. And then, yeah, I will text, and it's normal. Just like my friends text about our show. That doesn't feel parasocial. That just feels like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I wonder if the move is for me to protect this very special feeling I have every single night for an. Yeah, I guess we never deserve that. But I've been having these feelings lately, and it's not that I'm looking for inspiration. I just find the thought of this inspiring, which is like, we interviewed a journalist yesterday who's, like, so impressive.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And his mind is so Wonderfully curious. And I've been having these thoughts lately of like, I would like to figure. Put more time into figuring out how to collect, collaborate, Collaborate, collaborate with people. Whether it's writing or it's something I just, I just am like intrigued by the notion of. I haven't written with a human being since the Groundlings, you know.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I used to love that. It's like you. And also you're forced in there. So there was 15 of us in the company and if I had my druthers, me and Josh Nathan would have written together every day because we had the exact same sense of humor. But you write with everybody.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so you're kind of forced to bring these radically different perspectives and you sit in your apartment, your one bedroom apartment until you come up with a three page sketch. And often you came up with really great stuff because you had to.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was a really joyous experience that I long for.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I think you can find that. I also think you could.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, I don't know when I'm doing this, but sure, whatever.

[Monica Padman]

It can be something you want to do and try to do. But also I think it's okay to admire from afar or not even afar, but like, just like I love what that person does. I can let that be something I consume.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I don't have to be like connected to it or a part of it or a part of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Work through that. That's. I mean, I'm on the surface, I agree with, with you, but I'm curious. Like, I guess it's just natural. If you enjoy something, you want to be close to it.

[Monica Padman]

Of course. Of course. It's also because I think you actually, you're in a weird position where you have the ability to.

[Dax Shepard]

If I put a lot of energy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You could do it for so long. I wanted these collaborations with people and you know, it's like, oh, if only I could work with this person or this person and. And I couldn't. Like there was no way to do that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then do. And then not able to. I don't know. I think there is something freeing to just like that person's. That person's just great. Yeah. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

The dangerous part could be I want to somehow work with them and I want to produce something with. With them. And I guess I want them to see me as worthy of that.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

I certainly know I have zero money motives, so that's good. Like I can take that off the table. It's not like, I'm like, oh, we could have a bestseller, you know, I

[Monica Padman]

don't think you like that, but you're worthy. I guess that's sort of how I like. I, I think that's like, you don't need anointment. You don't need somebody else to say,

[Dax Shepard]

like, yeah, but that's the thing.

[Monica Padman]

Like when you love someone from afar,

[Dax Shepard]

you do you hope they would love you.

[Monica Padman]

You. I think you can get to a place where it doesn't really matter. Like, if you find out they like you, it's like, oh my God, that's so flattering.

[Dax Shepard]

But like, I'm there with other actors. Yeah, for sure.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, certainly I'm flattered by that whole Fastbender story, if it even happened.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

But also that Fastbender story would have in the past sent me into another sphere. And then I'm like, I fear how to work with this guy when that's like, just because he likes me doesn't mean he and I are going to be in a movie. So that stuff has all gotten very neutralized in my life. Like, yes, I can just like someone and if they like me, that's great. But I don't. I'm not off to the races with all these fantasies. But of course, more, more and more. And I think maybe I was reminded by it by this journalist we were, we were reminiscing about self submitting stories to journals and publishers and just how demoralizing that is. And you have your little envelopes and your postcards you send with it so they can respond to you. And so I do think, because that was my initial thing I wanted to always do. Yeah, I have a rever for writers.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

In a way that is probably reminiscent of like when I first started acting. I had this crazy reverie for actors. And then all the way around to your point, like, maybe just keep and cherish that. You don't need to infiltrate that and then neutralize that too. Maybe just stay a fan.

[Monica Padman]

You can stay a fan. Maybe it's like confidence or. Which I know you have, but it's weird, I guess too much of. Well, you have a lot intermittent and then you have none. Like, it's weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I guess we all, we all have that pendulum. But I. Oh, you just reminded me something great.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. Something I've been meaning to bring up for three, four weeks.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I feel like if someone comes up and tells someone I really respect, obviously comes up and says they love the podcast or whatever, I. I'm flattered.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But we're not. Not. I'm not doing this for that at all. Like, it's. It. Which is maybe newish for me in the past 10 years of it. I don't feel like I need that approval from people I wanted respect from.

[Dax Shepard]

To confirm for yourself whether.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I'm like, I think it's good. I'm proud of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I don't care, like, what other people say, good or bad. Doesn't have much of an impact.

[Dax Shepard]

Impact. Right.

[Monica Padman]

Because I feel very convicted in. In my feelings about this.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I guess that's sort of what I would hope.

[Dax Shepard]

I feel as a human being.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That you just, like, don't need that. Who we had the other day to like, work with them so that you're like. And I. So I worked with them. Like, they made. So I must be good. Right? It's like. Well, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I just want to live inside of one of his stories as much as I can. And I feel like by being with him, since the stories are about reality, somehow I'd be able to live. Okay. The thing you just reminded me of. Cause it was confidence and domains and we were talking about things, identity markers that are important to me. And the one I said that was troubling to you, as it should be, was I said fighting.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I didn't. It's always irked me since then that I didn't explain why. And I have figured out how to articulate why.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And this is not a boo hoo. I would hate for you to think that this is a boo ho who story. But I think if you grow up with an older brother that's significantly older than you, and you guys fight a lot, you have great fear of that violence. And then you have some stepdads that are like, really, really violent. And. And. And you're scared a lot.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Of that. And then you go to junior high and you date an 8th grader. Now all the 8th graders want to kick your ass and just like older dudes wanting to kick your ass and then just floating through Aaron's neighborhood. And the amount of. The amount of time in my early life that I was so terrified of men and violence to come to a place through fighting where I don't have any of that fear. I walk in the street, any guy I see, I have no fear. I'm not saying I can beat every guy up, but I'm saying I have no fear. I've conquered that fear. And the fear was so all consuming and so, so frequent that it is like a total shackles I broke out of through finally forcing myself to stand up, fight back, do the thing, and overcoming it. So if there's been any one of these identity markers that has given me the most relief, funny enough, yeah, that is, it's way more than driving fast.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's way more than all these other goofy ones I have.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But it's the one that liberated me from this feeling I hated, which was fear.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm being scared.

[Monica Padman]

That makes total sense. I think I meant more like.

[Dax Shepard]

And clearly fighting is just bad and it's not a way to define yourself. So I get all that. But for me, I wanted you to understand why that's an important one. For me, it's like, yeah, yeah, I,

[Monica Padman]

I think I, I think I know that about. I, I don't think you like it because it's you. Makes you scary.

[Dax Shepard]

Like I, or I'm trying, like, I want to beat somebody.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I don't think that. But I guess for me, when I look at the big picture, I'm like, the reason you were put in the position in the first place to be scared is because somebody else is violent because of somebody else who made them. It's like to me, it's this like horrible cycle that makes kids afraid and then they have to build that, you know, defense mechanism. And it's like I would just want the whole thing to stop for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And when you watch the Jack Reacher video of the guy pushing him off his motorcycle and him being the guy up, like it's just all obvious violence and all of it's bad. And all I'm seeing is, oh, yeah, that guy tried to make Jack Reacher terrified.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And tried to hurt him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And Jack was like this, this.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. By the way, I, I like, defend yourself. I'm not. I don't think he did the wrong thing there. I'm just like, like, I hate all this. I hate that guy who sucks violence. And that guy who came out is violent too. Like, I guess that's my. Like, he started with violence, it was reciprocated with violence. This whole thing is just like, I just wish that wasn't like the case, you know, But I mean, it's also reality, so whatever. But that's where I'm coming from when I say, like, I just wish that cycle would stop.

[Dax Shepard]

But you know, I agree it's a terrible reality of life on planet Earth, so I'd rather be someone that wasn't A victim I of it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It's like when women take self defense classes, it's not because they like want to run in the street and start kicking everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

They want to not feel afraid.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, exactly. So I do. I 100%, I get that.

[Dax Shepard]

And. And Cecilina, the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu champ, like if she tells me something I love about myself is I'm. I'm indomitable. Yeah, I love that.

[Monica Padman]

I do too. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I guess just the whole thing makes me sad. It's like. Yeah, it's. It makes me sad that you have to do that because there are people in the world who rape people.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And that makes you have to do this thing, you know, whatever. But anyway, it makes total sense to me that that would be a.

[Dax Shepard]

In my algorithm, unfortunately confirms my worldview that this is still essential.

[Monica Padman]

See, that's what's so funny. I don't have that. You don't have it, Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So like I see so many videos of like just a random, random Joe at a bar doing nothing and some asshole. You know, I see so many of those videos. So for me, I'm also misled. Probably about the frequency. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You want to do some facts?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, let's do some facts.

[Dax Shepard]

Facts are fun. Oh, I really love Tom.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, he delivered.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so state universities that don't have the words like state or university in them because remember he went to Rutgers and we were like, oh, that's weird. It doesn't say university.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So is it private or public? But technically, Rutgers is Rutgers the state university of New Jersey.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I read that. That's how I knew it was the State University of New Jersey. Right. But I again, still, it's weird that it's Rutgers, State University of. Yeah, it's not Bellingham, University of Georgia.

[Monica Padman]

Right. That's true. That's true. That's true, that's true.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, it's not like. Yeah, McAshan, North Carolina State University.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you're right. But I'm not finding a lot of others. Yeah, it's all like College of New Jersey, College of Charleston, suny.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, is Duke. What's Duke? Duke is.

[Monica Padman]

Duke is private.

[Dax Shepard]

It's private. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And Tulane is private. I had brought that up, but that's private too.

[Dax Shepard]

Only private. Very private.

[Monica Padman]

Very, very, very, very private. Okay. I looked up what's happening with. When you're detoxing, when you have this stomach jolts. Cuz he said, what is that? Yeah, the body's reacting to the sudden removal of substances as adapted to causing gastrointestinal distress, muscle spasms from electrolyte shifts or intense nerve adjustments. It's often a sign of toxins leaving the body, resulting in. Yeah. Cramps, gas, diarrhea, muscle spasms.

[Dax Shepard]

I will say we talked about it in the episode. The two most humbling moments in alcohol addiction, which I've talked to many people, is that moment for me in the kitchen where I was like, oh, it's not a joke. And I can't. I'm never gonna quit that moment. But when you have violent dts, you're like, could this really be happening?

[Monica Padman]

So, okay. I feel stressed about not. Not stress, but saying that because it's good, because people need to have expectations. But I'm like, I'm nervous that that's enough to have people just never stop. Sometimes I think that I'm like, oh, my God, if I stop, like, will I.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you have stopped. You've quit for a month here and there.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but like, what if I had that and then I can't handle it and then I'm. I just don't want to see if it happens.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you. You're not. You're not even. I don't think you're anywhere close to having DTS Scared.

[Monica Padman]

Well, anyway, don't let the DTS stop you. They're really like, those were the facts. There were really no facts. I mean, there were those facts. Yeah, that I just gave.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not surprised. I doubt you are either. To find out that he had had a very high status girlfriend.

[Monica Padman]

I'm not surprised. I obviously wanted to know who it was, but you know what? I respected his privacy and I didn't look it up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, this guy's a killer. He's so sexy.

[Monica Padman]

He's so nice.

[Dax Shepard]

He's so sweet.

[Monica Padman]

So sweet and engaged. Like, he's. He's. He seems like a very.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, they have like the X factor kind of attractiveness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

He was lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

Could imagine being pair good pair with dynamite.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Tom Pelphrey]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on. So frustrating. Fifteen minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking for first is smart. So check all state first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.