Toto Wolff (team principal of Mercedes F1 team)

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Summary: Toto Wolff, Team Principal of Mercedes F1 Team

Released on December 4, 2024

In this riveting episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, host Dax Shepard, alongside co-host Monica Padman, engages in an in-depth conversation with Toto Wolff, the esteemed Team Principal and CEO of the Mercedes-AMG Formula One team. The discussion traverses Toto's personal challenges, his illustrious career in motorsport, and his insights into managing one of the most successful F1 teams in history.

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1. Introduction to Toto Wolff

The episode kicks off with Dax expressing his admiration for Toto Wolff, highlighting Toto's unique ability to balance seriousness in his professional role with a playful and fun demeanor outside work.

Dax Shepard [00:36]: "I'm fascinated by someone that can be as serious as he is to make that team function and then as goddamn playful and fun as he was outside of that."

Monica echoes this sentiment, emphasizing Toto's unexpected and engaging personality.

Monica Padman [00:28]: "He's a worthy crush. Oh my God, he was fantastic. He had such a fun personality."

2. Toto Wolff’s Professional Achievements

Dax provides context about Toto’s role and Mercedes' unprecedented success in Formula One.

Dax Shepard [00:54]: "For context, he is the team principal and CEO of AMG Mercedes, which won eight Constructors Championships in a row, which has never happened. No one's ever come close to F1 for Formula 1."

Monica recommends Toto’s involvement in Matt Wyman’s book, INS Mercedes F1 Life in the Fast Lane, as a resource for understanding the inner workings of the Mercedes F1 team.

3. Personal Struggles and Family Background

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Toto's personal life, particularly the challenges he faced during his childhood.

Toto Wolff [09:28]: "I have no bad memory about the separation, to be honest. They never had a bad word with each other. They kept that away from us."

Toto recounts the impact of his father's battle with brain cancer and the subsequent divorce from his mother, highlighting the emotional turmoil of his teenage years.

Toto Wolff [09:53]: "I saw people coming to him asking basically to empty your pockets. That was tough for a young man."

Dax shares his own experiences with parental loss, fostering a deep connection with Toto over shared feelings of grief and resilience.

Dax Shepard [15:30]: "But not at 15."

4. Mental Health and Vulnerability

The discussion shifts to mental health, with both Toto and Dax emphasizing the importance of vulnerability and speaking openly about struggles.

Dax Shepard [11:37]: "You and I have a blessing. We're big enough and we fit the role enough that it affords us a willingness to be vulnerable in a way men have a hard time doing."

Toto elaborates on his journey towards processing his past traumas and finding peace with his father's death.

Toto Wolff [15:29]: "I probably processed it in the last five years. Only now I have found peace with him dying over so many years."

5. Transition from Racing to Management

Toto discusses his shift from being a racing driver to taking on a managerial and executive role within Mercedes-AMG.

Toto Wolff [17:18]: "I found my niche between business, finance and the love for the stopwatch and the honesty for the stopwatch."

He reflects on the challenge of maintaining motivation without the fear-driven drive that often fuels high-pressure careers.

Toto Wolff [18:25]: "I don't want that. Because you'll have no fuel."

6. Balancing Success and Personal Life

Toto emphasizes the importance of balancing professional success with personal happiness and family life. He shares insights into his relationship with his wife, Suzy, and how they prioritize family over careers.

Toto Wolff [54:27]: "She would say, I want to have my own career, but if I had to compromise on number one and number two, I wouldn't compromise."

Dax and Toto exchange stories about parenting and encouraging children to pursue their passions without undue pressure.

Toto Wolff [45:53]: "Maybe they're too young for loving something. You know, we're putting all this pressure on the young generation."

7. Managing Fame and Authenticity

Addressing the increased media visibility due to the Netflix series Drive to Survive, Toto discusses his approach to maintaining authenticity amidst growing fame.

Toto Wolff [87:32]: "One of the features of myself and what I'm looking up to in other people is authenticity. We kind of feel when somebody's not authentic."

He recounts an amusing interaction with Brad Pitt, illustrating the surreal aspects of newfound celebrity within the motorsport community.

Toto Wolff [89:40]: "I was in a podcast, really fun one. You want to speak? [Brad Pitt arrives]."

8. Reflections on Recent F1 Seasons

Toto provides his perspective on the tumultuous 2024 F1 season, particularly the controversial race outcomes and team dynamics within Mercedes.

Toto Wolff [78:52]: "Both drivers were deserving champions because of the up and down during the season. And probably both of them should have been world champions."

He discusses strategic decisions made by Mercedes and the impact of Liberty Media's influence on the sport's entertainment aspect.

Toto Wolff [87:32]: "We are trying to always be authentic and not act for the cameras."

9. Fitness and Lifestyle

The conversation touches on Toto’s fitness regimen and lifestyle choices that help him cope with the high-pressure environment of F1.

Toto Wolff [61:48]: "I like to be in the gym and go ballistic. So I can't breathe anymore."

He shares his routine for managing sleep during the demanding race schedules, highlighting practical strategies to combat jet lag.

Toto Wolff [65:32]: "I just don't care. I sleep wherever I can. In the plane, I sleep."

10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode winds down, Dax and Monica reflect on the enlightening conversation, expressing gratitude for Toto’s openness and insights.

Dax Shepard [95:03]: "It's been a blast. I hope we get to talk to you again."

Monica lauds Toto’s engaging personality, noting how his presence has shifted her fandom towards Mercedes.

Monica Padman [129:03]: "I love Toto. Absolutely loved him. He was such a... He was so much more playful than I anticipated."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dax Shepard [00:36]: "I'm fascinated by someone that can be as serious as he is to make that team function and then as goddamn playful and fun as he was outside of that."

• Toto Wolff [09:53]: "I saw people coming to him asking basically to empty your pockets. That was tough for a young man."

• Dax Shepard [11:37]: "You and I have a blessing. We're big enough and we fit the role enough that it affords us a willingness to be vulnerable in a way men have a hard time doing."

• Toto Wolff [17:18]: "I found my niche between business, finance and the love for the stopwatch and the honesty for the stopwatch."

• Toto Wolff [54:27]: "She would say, I want to have my own career, but if I had to compromise on number one and number two, I wouldn't compromise."

• Toto Wolff [87:32]: "One of the features of myself and what I'm looking up to in other people is authenticity."

• Toto Wolff [78:52]: "Both drivers were deserving champions because of the up and down during the season. And probably both of them should have been world champions."

• Toto Wolff [65:32]: "I just don't care. I sleep wherever I can. In the plane, I sleep."

Conclusion

This episode offers a profound look into Toto Wolff’s life, showcasing his resilience in the face of personal tragedies, his strategic acumen in managing a top-tier F1 team, and his commitment to authenticity and mental health. Listeners gain valuable insights into the pressures of Formula One management, the importance of balancing professional success with personal well-being, and the enduring impact of early life experiences on one’s career and personal growth.

For those intrigued by the intricate dynamics of Formula One and the human stories behind the sport’s elite, this conversation with Toto Wolff provides both depth and inspiration.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. Experts on Expert. Guys, buckle up. Grab an extra pair of pants.

[Monica Padman]

And a helmet.

[Dax Shepard]

And a helmet. My number one crush this here today, Toto Wolf.

[Monica Padman]

He's a worthy crush. Oh my God, he was fantastic. He had such a fun personality. I was. I was very surprised.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. I'm fascinated by someone that can be as serious as he is to make that team function and then as goddamn playful and fun as he was outside of that. So if you're not into F1, doesn't matter. You'll still love this because we're mostly talking about kind of mental health and the struggles of being a manager and all these things.

[Monica Padman]

His life.

[Dax Shepard]

But for context, he is the team principal and CEO of AMG Mercedes, which won eight Constructors Championships in a row, which has never happened. No one's ever come close to F1 for Formula 1. His accomplishment there will likely never be so cool taken away from it. It's just an unparalleled success as a team principal and a CEO. He's as good as you could be at this job. He is a part of a really interesting new book called INS Mercedes F1 Life in the Fast Lane by Matt Wyman. Great read. If you're interested in the workings of that team, which are really fascinating, that's a great starter. Please enjoy. Toto Wolf. We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. This is the one I am most excited to indulge myself with.

[Monica Padman]

I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Everett that is very, very hot right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's so many good ones on the list.

[Monica Padman]

We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.

[Dax Shepard]

I love Audible. I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Fleas by Autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life every night. Go to audible.comdax and discover all the year's bests waiting for you. That's audible.com Dax we are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. This is the one I most excited to indulge myself with.

[Monica Padman]

I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival effort that is very, very hot right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's so many good ones on the list.

[Monica Padman]

We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.

[Dax Shepard]

I love Audible. I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing fleas by autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life every night. Go to audible.comdax and discover all the year's best wal for you. That's audible.com Dax. Feel free to use that pillow as well if you need it. This sucks. We're getting a new couch.

[Toto Wolff]

Oh, I think it doesn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, you're fine.

[Toto Wolff]

Can I put the feet on?

[Dax Shepard]

Fucking gorgeous in person. Monica. How overwhelming is it?

[Monica Padman]

I'm so handsome. I know. And you're very tall.

[Dax Shepard]

Bit taller than me.

[Toto Wolff]

A tiny bit, but you're a better trained.

[Dax Shepard]

Listen, there's a lot of nerdy things I did today. I was gonna wear bigger shoes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you were?

[Dax Shepard]

Cause I hoped to be as tall as him in the photo. And I even considered putting on my work boots. And I'm like, you can't cheat. What are you wearing?

[Toto Wolff]

No, I'm wearing slates.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good. You're on the floor too. But yeah, that crossed my mind. As you just saw, I opened one of my garage doors hoping you would be interested in my car.

[Monica Padman]

How did that go? You guys were outside for a few minutes. Did you like them?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, I like it a lot because it's a good mix between you. There is a Mercedes, obviously.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, obviously.

[Toto Wolff]

And then I like the bikes. I'm riding bikes as well.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you are?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. What do you ride? Like a tour adventure bike?

[Toto Wolff]

What is it called? It's a vintage bike MV Agusta and MV Agusta have as well. So the story with the MV Agusta is more interesting than the Austrian bike I just mentioned. So one day it rings at the door and we are having scheduled dinner with Luis in Monaco. So he knows Suzy for a long time. There is cars. So he comes for dinner. He rings at the door and says, come down, please. And I'M saying, no, come up. We're up here. No, no, there's really something I'd like to show you. And take Suzy. So we're going down and he's there with his bike and it's an Envy Augusta Lewis Hamilton edition.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Toto Wolff]

So I said, well, it's great, the bike. Is that what you wanted to show me? And he says, it's yours. And I said, how come? He says, you know, you've done so many great things and you and I together and I've never given you a gift. So I want to give you the number one of a 40 edition.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow, that's so cool. That's a very sweet present.

[Toto Wolff]

So the other one is a Triumph Thruxton, which was converted by a German tuner to proper cafe racer. And that's the bike I ride every day.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I don't know if you saw in the garage. Sorry, Monica, I'm going to wrap up the technical stuff.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's okay. I have a sense this is going to be fair enough.

[Dax Shepard]

You had appropriate expertise.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I did, I did, I did. I have a Mercedes too, that we should tell Toto.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm about to defame Lewis.

[Monica Padman]

Uh, oh boy.

[Dax Shepard]

Because okay, Toto, he didn't give him. Lewis earned them. But he got seven championships under Toto's direction. That's right. You and I were working together for three years and I bought you a C43AMG.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I got a present three years.

[Dax Shepard]

In that's much better than an Envy Augusta.

[Toto Wolff]

I got another present which is worse.

[Dax Shepard]

Worse.

[Toto Wolff]

So, you know, drivers are very particular with helmets and Lewis has all of the helmets that he's collected. So giving helmets away for him is a real struggle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Toto Wolff]

So I got a lovely helmets from Valtteri or from Nico in the past, but I knew they are less emotional about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And can I ask quickly, he has a new helmet every race, right?

[Toto Wolff]

No, I wouldn't say every race, but for sure, like every second or third race.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I noticed new paint jobs.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, they change. And I think he's given me his most special one.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he did?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. When Niki Lauda died.

[Dax Shepard]

Who?

[Toto Wolff]

We were very close, both of us. He made a Niki Lauda design helmet for the Monaco race in 2019. And he won it holding on to. I think Daniel was behind him. It was a huge struggle. So he gave me the Nikolaude Memorial helmet Monarch Grace win. And he wrote something nice on it. And I think this is a piece of memory that's priceless.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. New goal in life. We're gonna ride together. At some point, we can. We can be far down, though, when we're retired or something. Okay. Let's start in Austria. First of all, we're both Capricorns. Even though I don't believe in astrology, I can feel your Capricornness.

[Toto Wolff]

What is that?

[Dax Shepard]

Very determined. My feelings are kind of secret. I can't show vulnerability. I'm on schedule. I have to win. I'm gonna beat myself up. I do. I'm managing everything.

[Monica Padman]

Control freak. No bullshit. Tell you the truth.

[Dax Shepard]

Does this sound familiar?

[Toto Wolff]

That sounds familiar. But I don't believe in astrology either.

[Dax Shepard]

Me neither.

[Toto Wolff]

You neither? So there is something that maybe Capricorns have in common is that they are born into cold January.

[Dax Shepard]

Boom.

[Toto Wolff]

Boom.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. The world is a hostile place when you arrive.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in Austria.

[Toto Wolff]

Absolutely. Thinking whether Detroit or Austria is more hostile.

[Dax Shepard]

It depends if we're including homicides, because I think Detroit has.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. And maybe also the freshness of the air.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Toto Wolff]

But that's why you're a car person also. No.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, I was shocked to learn this this morning that you're not Germanic, you're not Austrian, your dad is Romanian and your mother is Polish.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And were they immigrants or had they grown up in Austria?

[Toto Wolff]

My father was born in Bucharest and they immigrated after the war, interestingly. And I think there was a big wave of antisemitism back in the day. So my grandparents were called Rosa and Herschel. And when they moved to Austria, they called themselves Olaf and Maria.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Toto Wolff]

It's like the opposite. We are not Jewish.

[Dax Shepard]

Wearing lederhosen and blowing horns. Really? Saying, I'm Austrian.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. And my mother came to Vienna when she was 18, speaking no word of German, and studied medicine, became a doctor, so that's where they met.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, mom was a physician. What type? Like a family doctor? Anesthesia anesthesiologist.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful. She had all the drugs?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Fantastic.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, she took some herself, but that's a different story. Sure, sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

What did your dad do for a living?

[Toto Wolff]

He had a transport company.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he did.

[Toto Wolff]

And I know what you're referring to. In Austria, back in the day, you had to prepay the VAT for your customers, so that was taking a lot of risks. So that went belly up.

[Dax Shepard]

So he was struggling and mom was succeeding in a pretty dramatic way.

[Toto Wolff]

No, I think my father was very successful at a young age. I was born into money, but then he lost all and had brain cancer.

[Dax Shepard]

You're eight years old.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. And at the beginning, it was benign. And then over the next few years, it got really ugly to a degree that it was incurable. He struggled for so long because he got operated and operated and operated, and he changed his personality. And when a son is in his teenage years, you need your dad. You need your dad to look up to, to love. You need your dad to hate and to fight. He wasn't present anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, because you were 8 when he got diagnosed, and then you were 15 when he died.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Your parents also got divorced when you were 8. That had no relation to the brain cancer diagnosis, did it?

[Toto Wolff]

No, the divorce was that. Sorry. That must be a kid for my wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's see which one. I'd love to say hi to Susie if she's there.

[Toto Wolff]

Susie, I'm right in the podcast. Hello, Susie.

[Dax Shepard]

I love you.

[Toto Wolff]

No, no, I'll pass you over. I'll pass you over. I'll pass you over.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is so exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

Susie. No, listen to me. This is such a delight. If my wife dies and Toto dies, I'm sprinting to you. Okay. I just want to say, what a dynamo. A beautiful race car driver who also runs an academy. What more does someone need? All right, I'm going to turn you back to him, but I'm delighted to hear your voice. Here's Toto.

[Toto Wolff]

Hello.

[Monica Padman]

How fun.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay. Sleep well. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she's going to bed.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, she's in Scotland. And so I have this override in ringtones. It's my wife and my two children.

[Dax Shepard]

You need to show me how to do that.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, like an emergency bypass. So it always rings. Even though I don't have a ringtone, I have the phone number on just when they call.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah, I need to figure out how to do that.

[Toto Wolff]

Apologies.

[Dax Shepard]

Mine just never on. If we become friends, text me.

[Toto Wolff]

I do.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we don't need to talk on the phone.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, but I can give you an emergency override, like a bypass. If there's something that really bothers you, you just call me.

[Dax Shepard]

If I'm in really bad situation, be.

[Monica Padman]

Careful with giving him that. Also, you can't ignore calls. Then if Kristin calls, I'll have no sense. You can't say, oh, I didn't get it.

[Dax Shepard]

No, what I gotta figure out is how to put it on her phone. Cause she doesn't ever, ever answer. But what I think happened is I was asking you about your parents divorce, and Susie was always there, and then she hit a button to call to interrupt that question. Because she's like, oh, Toto's not going to want to talk about this.

[Toto Wolff]

No, I talk openly about it.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. You're wonderful.

[Toto Wolff]

Because this is who I am.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. This is later in the conversation. But I'll say you and I have a blessing. We're big enough and we fit the role enough that it affords us a willingness to be vulnerable in a way men have a hard time doing. And I think it's a luxury.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If I had a different life, it would be much harder for me. So I recognize it is easier for me than someone else.

[Toto Wolff]

And we need to speak up about it because people look up to us and they think we're not vulnerable. I had at these moments where I felt inadequate and I've had somebody telling me back in the day, I have what you have and I suffer, but I'm still successful. That would have given me a lot of hope. And I didn't have hope at times.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, in your teens. And this happens. But mom and dad separated, so that was separate from the diagnosis.

[Toto Wolff]

That was related to the failure of the company. I think my dad made my mother sign some collateral and she got a house, like an apartment building from her dad for the marriage, and that was gone, plus a credit. So that was already. My father was very ill, didn't know anymore what was right and wrong. And then she said, trust is very difficult to build and it's gone. So that's where they separated. But I have no bad memory about the separation, to be honest. They never had a bad word with each other. They kept that away from us. It was more just seeing my mother struggle to make a living for us and my father not having had any money anymore. And that went so bad that I saw people coming to him asking basically to empty your pockets. That was tough for a young man. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Did you have brothers and sisters?

[Toto Wolff]

I have a young sister, but she's not so young anymore. She's two years my junior.

[Dax Shepard]

The thing I thought of, and this is a tricky question, but my dad got diagnosed with small cell carcinoma in August and he was dead on January 1st. So it was like a three month thing. And then my stepdad got prostate cancer and that was like a two and a half, three year thing. And I'll say the stress of having a loved one have a condition that you're not sure when the end is. I found the experience with my dad much easier to. It's like, okay, this is happening. Let's spend the next few months together. I'll clear my schedule, I'll take you to your appointments. I find it very hard. And the notion that your dad had this condition for seven years and you're just kind of like, where are we at? What's going to happen? That feels very stressful. And then a guilt when you feel relieved it's over.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. First of all, sorry to hear about your dad and your stepdad. A terrible guilt because it was at the point that his life was miserable and I saw it. And then you lose the connection, you lose respect. And it came to a point that when he died, I think today, in hindsight, it was better for him, but I thought it's better for all of us. And the guilty feeling that you have was so bad. And it's something that I only processed in the last few years.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you were a kid.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. So you can't in a way analyze the feelings that maybe you could because you were an adult. But for me, that guilty feeling of thinking it's better for my dad to.

[Dax Shepard]

Be gone, well, you kind of wish it be over for them and myself and my sister.

[Toto Wolff]

So I think also we were so close. I remember being on his deathbed and obviously you're not seeing your father anymore. Like the strong personality that people talk about. These memories for a 15 year old and a 13 year old sister. I'm not sure I would do the same, me as a parent.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, you're mourning twice. First you mourn them with the diagnosis, but they're dead, essentially before they're dead. Because they changed completely.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard to deal with. They've been gone for a while.

[Dax Shepard]

But to me that was a huge gift because I had so much resentment. They got divorced when I was three. He had a great life. We lived kind of poorly. I had a lot of judgment of him. And there was the moment where I looked at him and you're right, he was not the big demonstrative alpha male. He was a little boy on a bed. And I thought, oh yeah, he's like a little boy and he's always been a little boy and I'm still a little boy. And you never stop being a little boy. And it actually dissolves so much resentment to see he's just a human that's scared. That was weirdly a gift.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. I think as an adult it's a gift.

[Dax Shepard]

But not at 15.

[Toto Wolff]

Not at 15. No, no, no, no, not at 15. There were certainly memories. Hugely difficult to digest as a kid. And as I said, you know, I'm 52 today. I would say that I probably processed it in the last five years. Only that I look at it, I feel more calm and reassured in my own existence. Only now I have found peace with him dying over so many years. And also with my mother, because my mother wasn't present at all. Because she needed to earn the money and she needed to look after herself and protect herself. So my sister and I were at home, we had Polish housekeeper that was good for the language actually. But she wasn't there. And now she's 79, she's not well. And she said to me I wasn't a good mother. And I say, I forgive you because I know how difficult it was to be at home and see the suffering. But at the end you're also responsible of how I am today. So I'd rather as a kid not having trauma, but I'm 52 years and if you ask me whether I'd rather be who I am today or a white elephant, I'd rather be who I am today.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's the weird piece you have to come to with your past, which is if you're lucky enough to end up somewhere you're happy with as you have and I have, and I have kids I love so much and have a great wife. I go, well, fuck, I wouldn't tinker with anything because I still want to end. So I gotta understand and process that it was hurtful and these things happen and also have a weird gratitude for it and like it too.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. My thoughts and my feelings.

[Dax Shepard]

Did something prompt five years ago? Why five years ago did you start confronting that?

[Toto Wolff]

I think that I was so busy in my life to get things done and I always had that anxiety about failure. I said it jokingly that I'm a half empty glass person. I always stare into the abyss. Everything could be be finished tomorrow. The racing could be ending, the winning ends, the money could be all gone. My wife leaves me for the hairdresser, all of that. I don't believe that anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

By the way, it'll be her trainer, not her hairdresser.

[Toto Wolff]

It will be the fitness trainer. There is always dangers and only in the last few years. I thought if everything was to end today, I could go with a good feeling.

[Dax Shepard]

You're there.

[Toto Wolff]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

If I were you and I set out on this journey first as a race car driver, then pivoting and becoming an investor in teams, then becoming a team principal and a CEO and having all this success five years ago you would have been on your six Constructors Championship in a row. And if I were you, I would go, wow, we did absolutely everything we wanted to do. Where is the elation? Why aren't I whole? Why don't I feel content? Why am I still scared?

[Toto Wolff]

You're absolutely right. But I lost that anxiety. I'm thinking, I have a wonderful relationship with my children. Like you said about your relationships, I have the best wife that I can imagine. I have done what I wanted to do. And that's why I would have peace if I would be dying today. And that would have then, in a way, been destiny. But then there is a certain risk that's coming with that too. Contentment. And that's not good.

[Dax Shepard]

It's scary, right?

[Toto Wolff]

No, I don't want that.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you'll have no fuel.

[Toto Wolff]

I wouldn't say no fuel. But there is this moment where my anger is gone. So I need to proactively condition myself and say, what are my objectives? And in 2020, when the music stopped. For someone that likes the music and doesn't like Cal, I had a year that I was really bad mentally and I had to reflect. Do I want to go back as an investor and look at multiple companies and be on the board, see businesses and technology that interest me and the variety of it, or do I want to consider as a racing person, as a basically a one trick pony? And I came to the conclusion that I found my niche between business, finance and the love for the stopwatch and the honesty for the stopwatch. And at that moment, I really proactively, intellectually decided there is more to do and more to win and more to conquer. But it is more with an emotion that is less anxious about success. But the drive isn't gone, it's channeled in a different way.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. So this is my huge fear, is that my motivation for the last 49 years has been you're lazy, you're a piece of shit, you're a failure, you're an embarrassment, and now get up and do things to disprove that theory. And so the great fear of mine is, can I write from a place of. Of happiness and love? Can I act from a place of happiness and love and not fear? Could I win from a place that's not fear based? And that's a leap of faith. I'm like midway there. I'm not where you're at. I don't fully trust that without some bit of cancerous rumination, I'll actually be motivated.

[Toto Wolff]

But you have two years to get over this. And those two years were important for me. But it's that I think imposter syndrome and all of the characteristics you mentioned, they have software, they haven't completely gone away, but they're conditioned in a healthier way. There's many people that don't want to go to a psychiatrist because they fear that they're losing their ability. Artists, writers, people that have a lot of creativity, that don't want to go to sort out their mental problems, they don't want to go on medication because they believe this is a huge fuel of their creativity. Because how often do we actually spend time in thinking about our objectives? And the analogy we are having in the team is being between the dance floor and the balcony. We are on the dance floor of the time that is in action.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

When are we going actually on the balcony and looking down what's happening on the dance floor and thinking about what's my long term strategy here? What is it that I believe I should recalibrate?

[Dax Shepard]

A lot of these different tech gurus have this built in moment in their schedule. For some people it's like four days a month or it's a week a month. Or it's a month a year.

[Toto Wolff]

Bill Gates is reading week.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Takes that stack of books and he sits in his little cabin and he allows himself to stop staring at the thing in front of him and get that kind of wider perspective. You can't really do that or how would you do that? Because you have 23 races. And then in the off season it's maybe even more work because you have the next iteration of the car coming out next year. So how on earth do you build in that time?

[Toto Wolff]

So I do it actively. For me, for example, flying in an airplane. And I do 600 hours a year for whatever reason. I don't enjoy watching movies, I don't enjoy listening to music. I like like reading. And the reading gives me a stimulation of thinking about those things. So I stay at the ceiling. I do it in the mornings. I take my time in the mornings for myself. And lying in bed for another 20 minutes allows me to do these things. So it's actually activities that run, in a way on autopilot. And I don't know if you know that there is a scientific explanation to that. Why do you have your best ideas in the shower, in the toilets, while shaving in the car? Because your brain is actually active, but it's on autopilot. You're doing all of that. So that is why we have those creative moments. And for me, it's also lying in bed or it's flying in an airplane. I think a lot about those things and I write them down.

[Dax Shepard]

That makes sense, and I relate to that. I need a certain level of distraction where you're right, the subconscious is driving the car. I'm not actually driving the car. It's just happening. And that's the perfect amount of activity that allows me to wander in my head because I'm doing something. So I'm kind of liberated to do that.

[Toto Wolff]

But we're all different, interestingly, because when I'm having an activity, that is where I need to put some force in. For example, you know, going to the gym, you're doing lots of bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you for noticing.

[Toto Wolff]

Or going for a walk to do my 10,000 steps. For me, this is like a meditation in the activity itself. I'm not capable of thinking about anything else. But Suzy, when she goes on her 20,000 steps a day or in the gym, she comes back with lots of stuff that she writes down. So we're all different.

[Dax Shepard]

True.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think the fear of failure being so intense is because you saw your dad lose everything?

[Dax Shepard]

My dad lost. Lost everything too, by the way. My dad, like, was rich, then poor, filed bankruptcy three times before he died.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

There wasn't a consistency there. You saw everything go away. So I can imagine that makes you feel like anything can go away at any moment.

[Toto Wolff]

For sure. That is a scar. There was like a perfect storm because they tried to have me in a private school, in a French school in Vienna. So I saw the rich kids. And you're not a poor kid in a poor environment where everything is pretty normal. But you're seeing the rich kids and you're seeing them going on the fancy holidays. I remember exactly that moment. Christmas holidays, last day of school. And there is this friend of mine that got into the car with one of the dads and they went off skiing, the three of them together. And I don't. The suffering of that very moment is still so much in me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you know what that fucking garage is all about? Is that I wanted the cool BMX bike. Kids had the cool BMX bike, the gt, the horror, the hutch. And I didn't.

[Toto Wolff]

Compensation mechanism.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I wanted that fucking bicycle. And this is the bicycle. I'm still healing the wound of the bicycle.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but the problem is you get the bicycle and then it doesn't work.

[Dax Shepard]

No, exactly. It's the fantasy.

[Monica Padman]

Or you go skiing and it doesn't work. Then you're like, well, now what did it work?

[Toto Wolff]

100% does for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

I'm jealous of that and 100% does for me. You're like, I'm fixed now.

[Toto Wolff]

No, not completely fixed. But I know there was these things I wanted to tick. There is this nice skiing place in Austria where everybody went and it was very expensive and it's actually a small village and there's nothing particular, but having a place. There was a life target and I have now actually there's probably better places then also going through this car and back bike motion. I remember my dad only had a very, very old BMW, 10 years old, and it was damaged, but he didn't have the money to actually repair it. And a friend's dad had. I don't know if you remember, Mercedes AMG560s SEC.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, baby.

[Toto Wolff]

That's exactly down your line. When I look at your garage, the.

[Dax Shepard]

Problem with those cars is impossible to work on. But continue. I love them. That's Miami Vice.

[Toto Wolff]

That's Miami Vice.

[Dax Shepard]

Ground effects.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. And when I showed these cars to Suzio, to my children and said that was my dream, they seriously, it looks awful. Porsche Turbo, you know, the three liters, the early ones.

[Dax Shepard]

How about a ruff 911? Ruff ruf.

[Toto Wolff]

It's a German company.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, sorry.

[Toto Wolff]

Wasn't a big thing back in the day. These tuners didn't exist in that form. But black 911 turbo 3 liter 4 gearbox.

[Dax Shepard]

The Widowmaker 930.

[Toto Wolff]

930.

[Dax Shepard]

That was exactly. Oh, baby. I do think when you don't have a dad around for some of these pivotal rites of passage, you have to go get a lot of these exterior things to comfort yourself that you are becoming a man. Do you relate to any of that stuff? The masculinity portion?

[Toto Wolff]

No, the masculinity portion doesn't relate to me. When my father got ill, I had that feeling. I took so much responsibility on for my sister that I wanted to be an adult. I wanted to be in control of my life. I didn't want to be embarrassed from my parents anymore. And that attitude of being the man in the house happened when I was very young. So I never struggled with that. It was more about the things that I saw from parents of my friends that were successful. This is what I wanted to achieve. Like a Ferrari car collection, for example, or one of my closest friends today. And I love him to bits. His dad was the president of the local football club. There was this famous sport show on Monday evening which was called Sporter Montag, which was sport on Monday. And it was primed time. And only the best people were There. And I remember him being there, and I thought, one day I would like to be in this sports show because that means success.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Toto Wolff]

And then these things happen and you realize they are so nice because you kind of say to yourself, I can't believe it. I'm there now.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Full circle.

[Toto Wolff]

Full circle.

[Dax Shepard]

And for you, it works.

[Toto Wolff]

For me, that works.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's great.

[Monica Padman]

That is great.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's kind of rare.

[Toto Wolff]

Is it? I think so.

[Dax Shepard]

So. And I don't know what part is American and what part is your culture and being European, but I don't know America. You know, it's like, do this, make this, be this, be special, be unique, be individual. And then you do those things and what you kind of feel like is, oh, yeah. And all I've accomplished is I've kind of alienated myself from everyone. It doesn't feel as fun as I thought it was going to feel, like you start questioning the whole promise of it. But I'm delighted that's not happening for you, maybe, because.

[Toto Wolff]

And you will think that's counterintuitive by being in Formula one. I have never felt. Well, that's actually not true. I wanted to say I've never felt surpassing people, but what I felt was anger against all the people that let my dad down. So at the beginning, it was like, I'm going to show you. And there were obviously generations above me, but that was important.

[Dax Shepard]

Really quick, who were you going to show? Was there a list of actual people or is this an idea of people?

[Toto Wolff]

No, there was a list of actual people that didn't respect my father, but that was the early years of my professional life when I started to think about it. I'm actually trying to meet my own expectations. And, you know, that sports show on Monday was my own expectations. I didn't want to be on daily because I wanted to show that I'm there. It was only for me, and it is still today. When I'm not having the success and not achieving the objectives that I set myself, that is where I feel humiliated towards myself, interestingly, not anybody else.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Toto Wolff]

I'm in an absolute competition against myself. Not relative competition to other.

[Dax Shepard]

I completely relate to that. Yeah. As I say, you shouldn't ever compare yourself to someone else. You should only compare yourself to previous versions of yourself. The things I didn't fantasize about, that I've gotten. Because I've gotten a lot of stuff I wasn't even bold enough to fantasize about. And those things are really fun because I didn't have a fantasy and an expectation of how I was going to feel and how much I was going to like myself or what kind of self esteem I would have. I didn't have any built on top of this fantasy. So the things that have happened that were unexpected now those I really can enjoy. I don't want to downplay how much joy I do get out of this crazy privileged existence I've had.

[Toto Wolff]

And it's good because you're 50 years old and you're actively enjoying things, experiences, material things. And there is many people who don't and for them it's just the next thing and the next thing and and they come to the conclusion that it's actually not what they expected. And then you're in a vicious circle of if you can afford to buy more and more and more and seek other relationships, you know, suddenly your marriage is not good anymore because you've seen the next Was about to say blonde, but obviously that's not what I meant.

[Dax Shepard]

If you have 5 foot tall Indian princess, of course.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, no, I know what you mean. Next bombshell.

[Toto Wolff]

Seriously, you have a very attractive person.

[Monica Padman]

Oh thank you. That's so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God, I'm so jealous of you.

[Monica Padman]

That's so nice.

[Toto Wolff]

But always the next thing you know, the grass is always green on the other side and that's not what I have.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Amazon Prime. You might think of prime as your gateway to incredibly fast free shipping on all your Amazon orders, which it definitely is. But prime is so much more than than that. Being a Prime member gives you access to prime video, Amazon music, prime gaming, ultra fast grocery delivery and tons of other benefits.

[Monica Padman]

It's a game changer, especially during the holiday season. Want to get in the holiday spirit while relaxing at home? Press play on a holiday playlist on Amazon Music or stream a festive movie on Prime Video. You've got an instant ticket to holiday cheer.

[Dax Shepard]

Sounds like a great night. Another way prime saves the holidays. Let's say a coworker got you a holiday present and you somehow forgot to get them something, seamlessly shop for their gift on Amazon.com and then use prime to get free one day or same day delivery. So it's like they were on your gift list all along. So what are you waiting for? Become a Prime member today and get more out of whatever passions you're pursuing. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. We are supported by Expedia. Having an adventure on the books gives you somewhere to look forward forward to.

[Monica Padman]

The excitement, the anticipation, just living in.

[Dax Shepard]

The fantasy of it. And that's why Expedia Hotels.com and VRBO have launched Unpacked 2025, an annual report on the trends in travel for the upcoming year. It's a great way to figure out where you want to go on your next adventure. We checked out the Unpacked25 site and it's really, really cool. They have a section called Detour Destinations that highlights lesser known cities near major travel spots. So let's say you're thinking of traveling to Cancun. Why not venture off the beaten path for a couple days to check out Expedia's Detour destination Cozumel. Now Cozumel, Mexico is fantastic. I've been that's a great detour. Hey, maybe you could even make Cozumel your vacation's main destination because there's nothing better than traveling. But having a trip to look forward to is a close second. Book your somewhere to look forward [e-mail] unpack20 we are supported by Amazon Luna Luna is Amazon's cloud gaming service that lets you play video games like you stream shows and movies straight from the cloud, no console required. With Amazon Luna and a high speed Internet connection, you can play games on almost any screen. Play on fire tv, tablets, smartphones and even a browser window. Amazon Luna has hundreds of games from the latest releases to beloved classics. We're talking Star Wars, Outlaws, Batman, Arkham Night, Sonic Mania, and so much more. This is great. If you just got your phone on you and you want to kill some time at the airport, pop over to Amazon Luna and play some of these great games. Prime members can play select games free, including Fortnite and a rotating monthly selection of games from across the Luna library. Go to luna.Amazon.com to get gaming we are supported by 23andMe + Total Health. As the year winds down, we often spend time reflecting on what's important. Well, taking proactive steps to take care of your own health is one of the most loving things we can do for the people who love us. And with 23andMe, you can do just that. With 23andMe plus total health, you'll receive advanced genetic screening, giving you a lifetime of insight into your potential future disease risks. It can help lead to early detection and even prevent prevention. It's a longevity platform that helps you be proactive about your health. With cutting edge genetic testing and biomarker analysis, you can create a health plan that is tailored just for You. As you know, I've been. We're both in this study and I've been going back to 23andMe and ordering different results, which is so cool. It's all sitting there for me to do.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's so cool. Because we've done it before and we really loved what we learned. Also, do it as a family or. Or, like, as a friendship. It's really fun to read to get your results and you can read them together. It's fun.

[Dax Shepard]

It is. Advocate for your health today. Go to 23andMe.com Dax for your limited time offer. That's 23andMe.com Dax now, I do have some questions about how you got to where you ended up. There's a couple gaps in what I can learn about you that are curious to me. Like, one is you go at 18 and you see Formula One or you go to some racing.

[Toto Wolff]

No, not Formula One.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. But you go to some racing and you go, I want to do this now. 18 is too late for you to do that much. We know this. You had to be karting at 6. So how on earth did you end up racing formula Ford without the karting background?

[Toto Wolff]

So I didn't have an interest for motorsport. I had an interest in road cars because of my past. It was quite disappointing to find out that my first car, my mother bought it, obviously I didn't have any money, was a Volkswagen Beetle. It ended against the truck six months later. And I wouldn't say I was disappointed.

[Monica Padman]

You manifested that.

[Toto Wolff]

I manifested that, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They had just enough horsepower to crash into a tree. Barely enough.

[Toto Wolff]

So there is a famous road through the Viennese forest around the city, which is called the Hohnstrasse. And they had, in the 50s, 60s, 70s, a very famous race there because it's cobblestone and when it's wet, that starts to be tricky. So that was my road. It's about, I would say, 10 kilometers, very twisty, very fast. And I raced with my friends there with the Beetle. And one day in the rain, I woke up on a Saturday morning, thought, it's raining, it's great. I'm going to take the Beetle onto the Hohenstrasse, that road, and bang, off I went against the tree. The steering wheel even broke.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Toto Wolff]

So that was crazy stuff, which we did back in the day, friend, at a Porsche, and there was a straight with, I don't know, a kilometer with a huge bump in the middle. And each of us was trying with the others in the passenger seat of the Maximum speed we could achieve before braking for the next corner. Oh, my God, it's like 240 kilometers an hour. Oh, that's crazy. But back to your question.

[Dax Shepard]

I just want you to know I've been in a lot of those passenger seats and I hate it.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. But as a kid, you almost don't realize there is.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in another zone.

[Toto Wolff]

It's like you talking about your daughter. You want her to ride a motocross bike rather than sitting on the back and crashing with somebody who wants to.

[Dax Shepard]

Show off a 16 year old trying to impress her.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, to be masculine.

[Dax Shepard]

Masculine, yes. Masculine in his masculinity journey. Exactly.

[Toto Wolff]

For me it was. I didn't have the sport on my radar. And then I visited a track in Germany, the Nurburgring.

[Dax Shepard]

I've driven it. So fun. You have a record there.

[Toto Wolff]

Record there? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In a 911 RSS.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, it was the big fat 911.

[Dax Shepard]

2009.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes. GT2RS or whatever the racing version was. But the one with the most powerful engine, naturally aspirated engine.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you remember your time?

[Toto Wolff]

It was a 703, but the track was different because it wasn't the new asphalt. So it was much bumpier and riskier. And that record was, I think, 7.05-but-crazy dangerous.

[Dax Shepard]

There's nothing like it.

[Toto Wolff]

No, there's nothing like it. And I was already befriended with Niki Lauda, who had his crash in Formula one there. That's why he burned. And he said, why did he do this? He's so stupid, so dangerous. Nobody cares what you're doing on the neighborhood. It was very pragmatic. I was in a bit of a midlife crisis. And so that was on the preparation lap. The car was already feeling old, the tires were falling apart. And then I said to myself, and that is the amateur approach. I'm going to give it one try. Whilst already knowing that the car had an issue. And that one try, I was up 15 seconds. So it would have been a 640 or 635.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa. Anything? Subscribe? Seven is very today.

[Toto Wolff]

A good time is around six, 20 or so. But that was 15 years ago and the track is a completely different one. As I said before, parts that are flat today were never flat back in the day. So the car felt odd and I thought, I'm just going to finish the lap. And then at a puncture. Oh, in the most dangerous part, you know, the foxhole where it's going down and there's a big compression. 289km. An hour, which is how much? 210.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like 1 7.

[Toto Wolff]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Only 300km is 180 miles an hour.

[Toto Wolff]

179.

[Dax Shepard]

I got that pretty close.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, but you played it down. It's not 175. It was 170.

[Dax Shepard]

I was off by four.

[Toto Wolff]

Is it 175? Divine.

[Dax Shepard]

Four by 175. I don't know what percentage I was off. That's less than 1%.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, but is it 179 straight or is it.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Toto Wolff]

100 is important. You're right.

[Monica Padman]

Two times it.

[Dax Shepard]

So you're right, you're right, you're right. So 180 with the puncture.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes. Right rear puncture went off into the guardrail. Went onto the roof. Didn't go into the forest, into the trees, which was lucky. And I slid 250 meters and stopped. Camera is still on. I'm stopping the car. It was on fumes. And I'm de. Plugging my radio and I'm getting out of the car. And you think everything is normal. Then they found me behind the guardrail with the helmet and the hands on, lying on my back like I was sleeping. And I have no recollection of concussion.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Toto Wolff]

So in the shock with the adrenaline, got myself out of the car.

[Dax Shepard]

No concussion?

[Toto Wolff]

No, a massive concussion. So they found me there unconscious. They put me in the ambulance and they were taking me to the local hospital there, oxygen on. And the worrying bit was that I had an ache in my spine and I started to feel tingling in my legs. And I thought, I can't believe that. I mean, Nikki was right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

And I'm going into the hospital. They put me in an X ray on mri, pulled me up, and there's a nurse and I'm saying, can you just please tell me whether my spine is damaged? And she says, I'm not authorized to give you that information.

[Dax Shepard]

That's not what you want to hear.

[Toto Wolff]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

That means I'm going to go get someone to tell you your spine is injured. Exactly.

[Toto Wolff]

And I'm still having the tingling. But obviously you then make it up.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, right now you're really feeling some tingling.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. Now you're feeling really feeling numbness. Numbness.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God, I can't move it.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. So the doctor comes and he said, you're fine with the spinal cord, but you have some fractures in your vertebrae. Compression fractures.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Toto Wolff]

I'm sorry to say, Mr. Wolf, but one of your eyes is tilting into the inside. So I had a view deviation. So because of the concussion. You know when the eye does this. How do you call it in English? Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Cross eyed.

[Toto Wolff]

Cross eye. It was a concussion. So they got me into the Frankfurt neurology with a helicopter. They checked me again there and said, that is worrying and we gotta keep you here. And I said, no, no, no, I don't wanna go to Vienna. A friend of mine is a neurologist. So they said, well, you can't go to Vienna. The road is too fast in the airplane. You can't because of the pressure. So the doctor that I had in Vienna jumped into a private jet. Oh, wow. Picked me up and we flew at 10,000ft.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so you didn't have to pressurize.

[Toto Wolff]

So I didn't have the pressure.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Toto Wolff]

Came to Vienna and then that was the diagnosis. And I couldn't sleep on my back for two months because of the vertigo. I got spinning like, you're fully drunk.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Toto Wolff]

I lost long pre Covid smelling and tasting. The nerves were damaged. It came back, but everything tastes like cardboard.

[Dax Shepard]

You were not with Suzy? Yeah. 2011. You got married.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So this is two years before.

[Toto Wolff]

That's how I met her. The accident, actually, because she was on a fitness camp with all the other Mercedes drivers. You know, she was an official Mercedes driver in touring cars.

[Dax Shepard]

She was also a development driver for Williams One. That was later. Okay.

[Toto Wolff]

But she was at Mercedes fitness camp. And I was a shareholder in the touring car team back in the day, but we didn't know each other. And there was a rumor between the drivers that Toto had a really bad accident and they decided who would call me in the hospital and they decided Susie would call me.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, but you didn't know each other or you just. In passing.

[Toto Wolff]

In passing. And that's how we started.

[Dax Shepard]

What did she say?

[Toto Wolff]

Well, she said whether I was okay. And she heard about the accident and we started talking. And it was a half an hour phone call. So the accident was.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I paint a picture of how perfectly programmed Susie was to meet Toto? So Susie's dad owned a motorcycle shop in Scotland.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, she's from Scotland.

[Dax Shepard]

She's Scottish. Her mom came in to buy a motor motorcycle, presumably in the 60s or 50s or something. Early for a woman to walk in and buy a motorcycle.

[Monica Padman]

This is cool.

[Dax Shepard]

So then the owner fell in love with her.

[Toto Wolff]

More the 70s. She would be pretty upset if it was the 50s or 60s.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

So sorry. Sorry, Sally.

[Toto Wolff]

He didn't mean it.

[Dax Shepard]

I was selfishly putting her at our age. She's just not. But if Your mom and dad are motorcyclists and the dad races, and then you race all girls. You're like, yeah, I recognize this. This is my dipshit dad. I think I love him.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. And you know, he raced in the Isle of Man. No motorbikes.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

He did. On like a two stroke back in the day.

[Toto Wolff]

I don't know. But it was the Isle of Man.

[Dax Shepard]

Fuck that.

[Toto Wolff]

And that's why they got the kids into karting, because they felt that two wheels were too dangerous.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

But you know Suzy, karting champ, women racer of the year multiple times. One of the only women to ever drive an F1 car development driver at so cool. Driven in practices at F1. She's a bad mfer.

[Monica Padman]

So your kids, there's no question, but they have to try this.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, we were just talking about that.

[Toto Wolff]

None of that for the elder ones. Benedict is 23. He studies in USC in Los Angeles. Oh, amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wait, your kid goes to school here?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, my daughter also.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, we really should be friends then.

[Toto Wolff]

We should be.

[Dax Shepard]

We've got a great guest house.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You saw the cars. You can borrow. I know you're only legally allowed to drive that E63 wagon, but that's fine.

[Toto Wolff]

No, I drive all your vintage cars. The truck would be exactly my car. Okay, that's exactly. So the elder ones weren't interested at all. I remember when Benedict was 5 or 6, I took him to the local car track in Vienna and he said, I don't really want to do it. Can I go in the play park? And I thought, it's just a matter of getting him into the car and then he will love it. So I said, do a few laps. He said, three laps. Okay, three laps. So I was thinking, I'm sure it's going to go well.

[Dax Shepard]

That's two extra laps. He only needs one to pull along.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. He came in after three laps and he said, that's it. Can I go to the play park? And it was clear he had no uppercase.

[Monica Padman]

Good for him.

[Toto Wolff]

But the small one is, I have a seven year old and he's really into it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I had the same experience. I tell my daughter, she already rides a dirt bike. I say to her, look, I'm not pressuring you, but if you want to race carts, I'll race old man class. We have a tour bus. Let's do this. You and I will go to races. And she's like, all right, let me try it. I take her to K1 and she goes out in a group, it's under 12 and there's like five boys older than her and they're way faster than her. And she gets a little intimidated and she comes off and she goes, I don't want to do this. And I go, okay, yeah, because I'm trying to give her the childhood I was dreaming of. And you just have to let it go.

[Toto Wolff]

Maybe it comes back.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, now we're 11. We get into the situation you were in. So we'll resume the story. You're 18, you go to this thing.

[Toto Wolff]

But one second for the 11 year old. Susie and I are of the opinion that that can flip again. So Carlos Saenz, the old man, told me that Carlos had an accident when he was 6 or 7. They stopped racing because they all felt it was too dangerous. And a few years later, the son said, I want to go kart. So I don't think that 11, per se is too late if a kid is really into it. True. They're more conscious, they are more able to learn. You're still building your synapses. So I think.

[Dax Shepard]

But you can at least relate. You go there, you got high hopes. This is gonna be this wonderful thing we share. And they go, this isn't for me. This is your dream.

[Toto Wolff]

And you go, she's a punting now.

[Monica Padman]

She's moved on to her mother's dream. She's doing musical theater.

[Dax Shepard]

She's doing musical theater. I would cry at either. When I watch her sing, I cry. And if she was winning races, I would cry.

[Toto Wolff]

You're cheering now for musical theater and whatever they do, we start to cheer for it.

[Dax Shepard]

You just want them to love something. I want them to love something. I don't care what it is, just love something and chase it. That's all I want for you. I want you to be on the chase.

[Toto Wolff]

But maybe they're too young for loving something. You know, we're putting all this pressure on the young generation. You know, you gotta have a passion and you gotta have a real interest and you gotta perform in school or at sports. I let my kids be and they're looking at Instagram and everybody's perfect. Everybody's a millionaire, has a sensational body.

[Dax Shepard]

They're on a boat all the time.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so they're thinking, I'm inadequate, I'm letting them be. And my son, you know, he's in his senior year, he's thinking about what to do next, and I'm taking all pressure off. I say, you don't need to have a passion at 23, because I didn't. The motor racing was gone by 23, and I seriously didn't know what I was interested in apart from making money.

[Dax Shepard]

Had you gone to college at all?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, I was a dropout. When the racing ended, I also dropped out of college. Said I'm going to start working now and I want to be the youngest guy working. And I didn't care what it was. There wasn't anything like passion. One door open, the other one closed, and another one opened and another one opened. And I'm taking the pressure off by saying, don't look at me. This is my 52nd chapter. You're in the 23rd.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right. I was more lost than you can imagine at your age. Relax. Breathe. Well, then, that's my next mystery. So you pivot again, you race for a while and you're good. You're not good enough to be an F1, and you're likely too big. As I tell everyone, the only reason I'm not racing for AMG is because I'm too tall.

[Toto Wolff]

We would be the ones with the earrings and championships under our belt.

[Dax Shepard]

It's rare you hear a tall guy complain about being tall.

[Monica Padman]

Too tall.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, for us.

[Toto Wolff]

We all try to be small.

[Dax Shepard]

My shoulders are just too wide.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. I'm so sorry.

[Toto Wolff]

Biceps. You know, the biceps would be a real problem.

[Dax Shepard]

But you pivot and you get into business. And as I understand it, and as the lore suggests, you start raising money for startups or tech. Internet. That's kind of new.

[Toto Wolff]

Ish.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a lot of opportunities. And what you start doing is going to companies and saying, I will help raise, raise money for you, but I want some equity.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Why the fuck did they trust you to do that? You didn't have any equity of your own to bring to the table. I can't imagine.

[Toto Wolff]

So my friend and business partner since 30 years, Rene, was saying exactly that to me back in the day. Why the fuck should they give you equity?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you don't deserve it.

[Toto Wolff]

And what do you know about IPOs?

[Monica Padman]

Right?

[Toto Wolff]

So I still went there and for whatever reason, convinced them and said there is no downside for you. If I'm not raising the money for you or we're not IPOs, your company, then you're not giving any shares to me.

[Dax Shepard]

You're like an agent, kind of. If it works out, give me 10%.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. That was my selling story. And it worked.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Have you started to acknowledge the gift you and I were given? This has hit me over the last five Years as things have been explained to me and I've changed my opinions on things. I was brought home to a single white trailer. Ton of violent stepdads, addiction all through the family. It was a rough go. So when I heard white privilege, I was like, what privilege did I have? Sure, some white kids have a lot of privilege, but I didn't have any. I was stuck on that. And then I had this moment of clarity where I was like, well, I was a fully functioning addict for 10 years. I drove around the city all the time with coke in my car. I was drunk half the time. I interacted with police, and I went, oh, that's the privilege. If I were black, I would be in prison for the rest of my life. End of story. I would be shocked. I didn't talk to police with the right amount of respect. You know, there's no way. And I was like, okay, yeah, I do have a ton of privilege. I've just now come to own the fact that being 6:2 is a lot of it. I've directed movies. I've gone into studios and said, give me $30 million. You can trust me. I'll lead this group of 100 people into this end zone. You believe I can do. And a lot of it is I'm just tall.

[Monica Padman]

It looks like confidence.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Toto Wolff]

So first of all, now we know each other for 45 minutes. You have aura, charisma, you're convincing, you're intelligent. That are the USPs, or this is your character. Maybe it gives you credibility of being tall. But I have seen pretty successful men that were tiny.

[Dax Shepard]

Christian Horner.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, he's more square, but I think he's laughing about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Horner, I interviewed him. I had a good time.

[Toto Wolff]

Well, let's not go too far, but I think he can laugh about it. So there is tiny men that I have met who were very powerful and successful. Look at Bernie Ecclestone.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, F1's littered with tiny men who are powerful and successful. The drivers.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, many that have failed drivers and saw the humiliation of not being good enough. There's not many successful drivers that made a success out of a management career.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

I think you're reducing yourself to your height or to your physical.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's in the mix. I think it's one of the gifts I was given.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think it's made you feel confident. It's had that impact. And so then you exude confidence. And that's compelling to people like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Chicken or egg, I guess. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. I will say with the privilege thing though, I think privilege is not the right word. I mean, it's the easy thing that's been spread around, but it's more benefit of the doubt. It's like white benefit of the doubt really is what it is.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm gonna assume this kid's not high on drugs.

[Toto Wolff]

I think if you go back to trailer and you have abuse and alcohol, you had a rough upbringing and that is part of your trauma and your humiliation that's shaped you. Addiction suddenly is a self destruction phenomenon, in my opinion. Or because it's just fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you had any pull towards that? What's your relationship with alcohol?

[Toto Wolff]

Obviously everybody was into alcohol at a certain stage. That worked really well for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it works, it's fun.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. So I was never into drugs in my school. Everybody would smoke joints. I didn't smoke any cigarettes. Everybody smoked cigarettes as well. I felt that it never worked. Obviously you got munchkins and you were giggling a lot. But I felt doesn't work for me. But there was an incident. We were in an apartment of a friend of mine, 16 years old. So the whole purpose of the Saturday night was smoking a water pipe or whatever. So we did all of that. Didn't give me a lot. And then I left the apartment and walked about 10 minutes to the subway station. Down in the subway station. And you know, there's these yellow lines where you wait for the metro to come. And I stood, I realized I didn't have any shoes on.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Toto Wolff]

So I am walking back into the apartment, ringing at the door. This stone friend of mine opens the door and I'm saying, I forgot my shoes. And that made their night. They were laughing it off. So it had an effect. But I was too scared of the rest. I was already mentally fragile and I was scared that it would leave me in a dark place. That's why I never dived into it. But we try it a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. You know, another reason we might not be seeing eye to eye on the height thing is yours came really late, didn't it?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think that's a big distinction. I've been this size since I was 12.

[Toto Wolff]

Ah, okay. No, with me it was catastrophic. You know, I was 180, which is 6 foot, and my weight was 100 pounds. Wow. So that was pretty bad.

[Dax Shepard]

That was me in high school.

[Monica Padman]

String bead.

[Toto Wolff]

We weren't very attractive for the girls.

[Dax Shepard]

No. I had a huge nose, a terrible haircut. I was so skinny and tall. It was rough.

[Toto Wolff]

Same for me. So more humiliation.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you identify with being handsome? Like when people tell you you're handsome, do you accept that that's reality or do you still think, eh, I think you're confused.

[Toto Wolff]

I think you're confused. You do?

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't that wild? Yeah, me too.

[Monica Padman]

Wild.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm like, no, no, I'm an ugly duckling from high school. No one liked me.

[Toto Wolff]

But that's maybe why you're working out. You're trying to compensate it because you're really not believing in that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Toto Wolff]

And then I don't want to look at myself too much because that is vain, anarchistic. But then we still do.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We're a human.

[Dax Shepard]

I look at you enough. I follow Suzie's Instagram and she's really generous. There'll be pictures of you wakeboarding, pictures of you holding the kid over your head on the beach. She's helping us out.

[Toto Wolff]

But she would never post like a swim trunk photo for her. That's ridiculous. And I'm a grown up man and I shouldn't do the Instagram thing of racing drivers showing off.

[Monica Padman]

She's keeping you humble.

[Toto Wolff]

She does. And you know, we have fun at home. When you're in front of the mirror and you're doing some stupid posing and she says, that's really turning me off. Don't do that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she's drunk.

[Monica Padman]

I'm glad you have her.

[Dax Shepard]

That's good.

[Toto Wolff]

We learned pretty early that our family life is only good if our marriage is good. So when you look at the way she talks about herself, number one is wife, number two is being a mother and that's very unusual. And the career comes third. So she would say, I want to have my own career, but if I had to compromise on number one and number two, I wouldn't compromise.

[Dax Shepard]

And nor I, nor me, I wouldn't do it either.

[Toto Wolff]

She's such a good manager or entrepreneur, I think she could do much more and she could base herself in London or so. And she says, I don't want that. And I'm saying to her, you know, if you were to have a career in motorsport and you were conflicted with me, I would step out of an executive role. It's anyway a lot at the moment and become a dormant shareholder. But she says, let's look at the big picture here. I think we gotta rely on.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to be realistic about who can do. There's been moments in our marriage where we should prioritize her career. It's generating much more money. And then there's been times where mine's generating more money, so we got to prioritize mine.

[Toto Wolff]

Absolutely. And I was also put off, you know, when you following this cliche of being with a model or.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm embarrassed for those guys.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, me too.

[Dax Shepard]

I see them and I go, where's the personality? Where's the challenge? This is embarrassing for you, but I.

[Toto Wolff]

Think you need to go through that. First of all, they're never yours alone because they seek recognition as well. If a girl stares at her own pictures on the computer, that's a warning sign for me. Staring too much.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yes. There's a healthy version.

[Monica Padman]

You say that all the time about not wanting models, but you did try it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I attempted to raise my own self esteem through other women, and I didn't like myself anymore when I looked in their mirror and I was over, and I was like, oh, this doesn't work. I can't absorb their high status. I'm trying to, but I can't.

[Toto Wolff]

I'm not following that cliche. And when I see men like you say, what are you thinking? A friend of mine, he got together with this beautiful lady, and he was very famous, and she left him now. And Suzy was very pragmatic to him. He said, what did you expect?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, right, right. What did you think was at the end of this?

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

For people who don't know a lot about F1, and obviously this podcast is largely women and not F1 fans, although we've turned a lot of people into F1 through Danny Ricardo.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we love Danny.

[Dax Shepard]

Daniel and I are really good friends, and he's been on a bunch of times.

[Toto Wolff]

I wear his merchandise. He brings me that stuff.

[Monica Padman]

It's great.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica wears it too.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I love it.

[Toto Wolff]

Super cool.

[Dax Shepard]

He has a very great, great eye. He's a wonderful dude.

[Monica Padman]

Talk about charm.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. And he's always so positive.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Toto Wolff]

How this ended is real shame how they didn't give him the platform because he's done so, so well. But I don't think it's the end of his career. The style that he has with his fashion connection.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, he's gonna be fine.

[Toto Wolff]

He's gonna be fine for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

So for people who don't know, Formula One is 23 races, and it's all over the world. And not only is it all over the world, it is not planned with any seeming logic. So it's like, you'll be in the Middle east one race, and then the very next race, you're in Europe. Then you're in the us Then you're in Asia. You live seven, eight, nine months of the year weekly, adjusting your sleep schedule by 12 hours. Sometimes I don't know how that's manageable. How many miles a year do you fly?

[Toto Wolff]

I don't know miles, but it's about 600 hours.

[Dax Shepard]

How are you managing your sleep? What is your routine? I want to hear about how you exercise. You've got a gorgeous physique.

[Toto Wolff]

Oh, it's gorgeous, but it's not on your level.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's gorgeous. Especially considering your schedule. I've talked about it with my friend Charlie, who owns a CrossFit gym. He is and Adonis and we both go. The other route to go would be Toto, which is like, this guy's clearly an athlete. He's not bulky, but he's lean. It's a look. That's what Monica. That's what everyone likes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's preferred. This is for other guys.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's a man to man thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes. This is still insecurities from junior high.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Toto Wolff]

I think he has a more intellectual anger. If you're not too bulky. Yeah, but you're not bulky.

[Dax Shepard]

What do you do for your physical fitness, for your diet? Anytime I learned something, we did the same thing. I loved it. One was, I eat the exact same meal every single day. But I want to hear about what you eat, how you deal with your sleep, and what's your exercise routine and what is your kind of mental health approach to the highest pressure job someone could have.

[Toto Wolff]

So let's start with the last one because that's most important. I am more at risk of a bore out than a burnout. That sounds like stresses where I'm most comfortable. But it is. But unfortunately, it's only a coping mechanism. I would love to sit on a stool in a coffee shop in Greece or Sicily and not do anything and read a newspaper, but I can't. My mind is too busy. The more pressure I have, the better I feel. That's my real comfort zone. I had to take decisions at the age of eight.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, right.

[Toto Wolff]

I never think about it. I go in a restaurant, I look at the menu, it takes 10 seconds. So I only wear the same clothes. Louis thinks about me. I'm the most boring fashion guy.

[Monica Padman]

Well, he's very fashionable.

[Dax Shepard]

You guys are fun opposites.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they are.

[Toto Wolff]

We are very fun opposites.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it is fun.

[Dax Shepard]

It's an odd couple. It's a great odd couple.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, we are. He hates everything I wear. He hates the most My shoes that are coming from a tailor in Vienna. He doesn't take any more clients. And I'm showing them and he says, this is the ugliest pair of shoes that I have ever seen. But that's part of simplification. I wear the same trousers, the same shoes in every color. Blue, beige, gray suits. It's all the same. So I'm not thinking too much when I'm packing. But in terms of the mental health, I think as long as I have to solve problems, I'm really in a good space. When it's calm and comfortable, I can take it for 10 days, a holiday or so. I start to not feel well at all. It's not like I want to be busy, but it's like I'm going into a darker place because it needs the balance. I realized we took a holiday in Sardinia, which is a beautiful place, for three days in July, mid season. And I remember floating on my back in the sea in the azure water. And I thought, I feel so great. We went to the same place for three weeks, holiday, three weeks. I never felt good. And it got worse and worse.

[Dax Shepard]

I tell my wife, I'm like, I'll go anywhere, I'll do anything, but every other day I gotta get in the car on the island and go explore. I gotta do something novel. I gotta stimulate, I gotta meet some people.

[Toto Wolff]

I don't want to necessarily speak to people, but I want to be in the middle and look at them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. A Piazza Italy. Yeah, I can do that for seven hours, for dinner, a few cappuccini, and.

[Toto Wolff]

Look at them and think about, who are they? What's their life?

[Dax Shepard]

Is it as romantic as it looks?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I don't want to talk with them.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I'll do the talking. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

When you guys go on your buddy.

[Toto Wolff]

Motorcycle trip and I'm listening, I think we're good combo.

[Dax Shepard]

So the mental health. When you're on the road and you are in the middle of the season, do you have a checklist?

[Toto Wolff]

I tried all sorts of meditations. Transcendental meditation, ayurvedic meditation, then with a mantra, mindfulness, breathing. Jacobson. I did all of that. Doesn't work for me because it's too calm. Trying to calm my mind doesn't work. I need the opposite. I need activities that stress me. That's why racing a car is so fine, because there's nothing else you can think about. I like going to the gym and go ballistic. So I can't breathe anymore. I'm into free diving.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you are?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, I do lots of that.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you saw the Deep Blue, the.

[Toto Wolff]

Luc Besson movie, Le Grand Bleu, the long version. Did you see the long version?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, of course. Jean Reno.

[Toto Wolff]

Fantastic. So I do this. I got George and Louis into free driving also.

[Dax Shepard]

Really? What's the farthest you've.

[Toto Wolff]

35.

[Dax Shepard]

35 meters.

[Toto Wolff]

Meters. 115ft. So I'm not using weight. It's just swimming down myself. And Netflix made quite a thing. There's an episode of George in Drive to Survive next. So we went free diving. They had a full camera crew, two boats, divers in the water, scuba divers to look at us and do all of the filming, mainly for George. So I'm the semi pro and we're doing this first dive with the world champion that is coaching us. And the first dive is an accommodation dive. So you go 5, 10 meters, your body gets used to it. So the mind says, okay, we are here in abnoe mode. We need to hold the breath and manage our energy level. So I'm doing my accommodation dive, 25 meters, 75ft, and I'm going down at 10 meters. And that feels so great. So I'm thinking I'm going to go all the way down. It's easier. I feel a little bit of a pressure in my right year. Pang. I do my eardrum first. She did dive. The whole Netflix thing is gone.

[Dax Shepard]

You look like a chump. Like a jump.

[Toto Wolff]

George does his 3 meters, 7 meters, and by the end, he was at 25 as well. So, yeah, that wasn't my greatest moment. But free diving is great because you can't think about anything else.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, the exact same story, but a little different. They wanted to do a story on me for some TV show and they thought, oh, it's.

[Toto Wolff]

Maybe it's a child.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, this is great.

[Toto Wolff]

Benedict, my son.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful. Let's see what he's up to. Tell him you're in Los Feliz.

[Toto Wolff]

Hi. I'm in a podcast, really fun one. You want to speak?

[Dax Shepard]

Ask him if he's heard of it. Armchair expert.

[Toto Wolff]

Armchair expert. He knows that. He looked at it because I said to him, can you check out. You're in the podcast.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Dax, you're getting everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

Benedict. Oh, I'm good. This is Dax. You're going to usc. And what are you making majoring in? In business. You didn't get pulled towards film and television? I did not. I don't know if I like this. I don't know if that was the right move.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy.

[Dax Shepard]

She's Doing comps.

[Monica Padman]

But.

[Dax Shepard]

What's your name?

[Toto Wolff]

I'm Rosie.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi, Rosie. We've got a whole plan laid out. Your dad's gonna start spending a ton of time here in LA at my guest house. So obviously you guys will be in the mix quite a bit. You're living downtown. Benedict, you're doing everything wrong.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, let him be.

[Dax Shepard]

You need to be in Los Feliz to major in film directing. And you need to live in Los Feliz. And we gotta get you straightened out. And I know we're running out of time. This is your senior year. All right? I'm gonna turn you over to your dad. Now your dad's getting frustrated. Cause this is his time and not your time.

[Toto Wolff]

Hey. Nein nich bin kommdeinden from Dax.

[Dax Shepard]

Vival kostedine pulley.

[Monica Padman]

Bye.

[Toto Wolff]

Bye.

[Monica Padman]

That's the one phrase.

[Dax Shepard]

Dax, how much does your shirt cost? Vival kostedine pulley.

[Toto Wolff]

Vivkosted.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, nostalgia.

[Toto Wolff]

I'm sending them the address.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great, great, great. Okay. You need to be stimulated. What about sleep? How on earth do you deal with that?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. So we had a NASA doctor that gave us sleep plans and say, this is how you accommodate for jet lag. Because Obviously astronauts, in 24 hours, I don't know how many times they have a sunset and a sunrise every hour and a half.

[Dax Shepard]

They're going 17,500 miles an hour around a 24,000 mile object.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. So they need to sleep somehow. And the truth is our eyes react to daylight. So we were wearing shades when we took off. Even if it was day in the airplane, we were eating breakfast at 4 o'clock in the afternoon because it was breakfast first time in Japan. But now, after many years in the sport, I changed my thinking and what I do. And that is I just don't care.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't stress about it.

[Toto Wolff]

I don't stress about it. I sleep wherever I can. In the plane, I sleep. Or when I'm awake, I'm not looking at the time zone of arrival. I arrive and it's daylight or night and I try to sleep. And if not, I'm taking a little bit of a melatonin or we have also a sleeping pill if you work the next day. Not the heavy stuff and it's only fall asleep pill. It's not the one that puts you into coma.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right. Or makes you get up a grilled cheese in the middle of the night and not know. Or walk to the subway with your shoes off.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. And when you're like and you can't.

[Dax Shepard]

For my Take a second one of these.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Addie.

[Monica Padman]

I know about Addie. The little pink pill, right?

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Toto Wolff]

I was in Japan with Suzy and we were in this hotel in Tokyo and I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't sleep. So I took half of a sleeping pill. And she gets up and I said, why are you getting up in the middle of the night? And she says, It's 9 o'clock in the morning. And I was, fuck, I just took a sleeping pill.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no.

[Toto Wolff]

She did all the sightseeing. I slept for the whole day. I sleep when I sleep. I'm awake when I'm awake. But I follow my nutrition discipline in a very, very strict way.

[Dax Shepard]

I know breakfast is two pieces of pumpernickel toast, extra crispy, tomato cheese, no.

[Toto Wolff]

Tomato, ham, ham, ham, ham, ham.

[Dax Shepard]

And an espresso and a sparkly water.

[Toto Wolff]

I don't do it anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

What don't you do?

[Toto Wolff]

I don't do breakfast anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's done.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, that's done. I do a cappuccino.

[Dax Shepard]

No breakfast?

[Toto Wolff]

No breakfast. Because I feel like that is useless calories. I'm not hungry anyway. The cappuccino is a treat. It does me feel a little bit sick afterwards. So I'm not hungry.

[Dax Shepard]

The right amount of nausea. Exactly.

[Toto Wolff]

And then I'm having lunch and dinner. And for lunch, wherever I am on the racetrack, I only eat the same. And that is chicken breast, some vegetable, tomato. And I Treat myself to half a glass of full sugar Coca Cola. That's good for digestion.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Half a glass of regular Coca Cola.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. Not your half pregnant diet cook.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right. You're disgusted by that. You're smarter than Bill Gates and I. But continue.

[Toto Wolff]

You got me on that one. Dinner, try to do lean protein. But then I can indulge as well. If I see something really nice on the menu or if the local food is marvelous, then I will have big.

[Dax Shepard]

Plate of pasta when you're at Monza.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, the pasta.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you drink wine?

[Toto Wolff]

I don't drink wine. I don't drink beer because of the gluten. It doesn't do me any. Well, if I'm drinking alcohol, then it's full blast vodka.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's the Romanian in you.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, Polish. You don't drink huge amounts and after like 20 minutes, you're ready already. Having fun?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

The liquid is not huge and you're not mixing, so I don't feel sick. I don't feel bad. Next day, hungover.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I have just a couple of remaining questions. These are just curiosities. March 15, March 16. These are the names of your two companies. Are those people's birthdays?

[Toto Wolff]

No, that was the day I set the company up. So I wasn't very creative. So I said, why don't we do the date today?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Coincidence. In 2004, it happened to be March 16th.

[Toto Wolff]

No, I took the next day.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so it had a reason at the beginning and then it didn't have a reason at the end. Breakfast, we talked about.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, working out. Because you're a gym person. I'm not a cardio person. Are you a cardio person?

[Dax Shepard]

I hike. That's the extent of my cardio. I can't get on a treadmill. I can't jog.

[Toto Wolff]

Psyche.

[Dax Shepard]

Cycling.

[Toto Wolff]

No, we're too tall for bicycles. We're looking like huge gorillas on this tiny little thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Even me on the race motorcycle. I look ridiculous. People comment when I post pictures, I think I look so cool. And they're like, is that a normal sized bike?

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Normal sized wife.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. And we're not good with aerodynamics as well, so we have a deficit against everybody else.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, but under braking, it's good. If I sit up, I pull a lot of drag.

[Toto Wolff]

Like Valentino Rossi. Put your leg out also to balance.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you there the day that Valentino and Lewis swapped?

[Toto Wolff]

No, but I had to give permission, so I gave it. And I think they both enjoyed it a lot. Louis is the Annoying kid in school that does everything right and fast. He.

[Dax Shepard]

He was quite good on the bike.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. So I tell you a story about biking. Secretly, they didn't tell me. They went testing Nijeres with my head of strategy, who is also a keen motorbike guy, and one of the engineers. And I couldn't get hold of him for two days. And then I'm calling Louis, my engineer picks up and he says, it's all good. All is fine. We just finished biking. And just whatever you hear, he's all fine. Oh. I said, what happened? Oh, my God. Whatever fell. But he was four seconds off the motor. GP pros only.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Toto Wolff]

It's unbelievable. The body feeling that he has is what makes him a champion.

[Dax Shepard]

But in that doc, Valentino is my God. I mean, that is number one. People have Jordan. I have Valentino Rossi. The doctor, 46. He's everything. The spirit of him. He's so elegant. Everything's so great. He was not terribly far off, Lewis, in the car. I thought what he did in the car was kind of mind blowing.

[Toto Wolff]

I think for motorbike guys, it's easier to drive a car fast than for car people because it's just so much more complicated with balance on the bike.

[Dax Shepard]

I think the braking on a motorcycle takes some real work.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But my favorite part of that doc is Valentino Rossi. There's this great documentary where these two come together. They're both Monster Energy athletes, so I think it was sponsored by monster. And Valentino gets to drive his F1 car. Slash, Toto's F1 car.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I see, I see, I see.

[Dax Shepard]

And then Lewis rode Valentino's MotoGP bike, which is a fucking handful. This is like a 320.

[Monica Padman]

But he did horsepower.

[Toto Wolff]

One goes much faster than a car, but doesn't brake because obviously you have no contact.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

And the corner speed's lower, but, yeah, they're going 225 miles an hour at every track. It's nuts. But anyways, Valentino Rosso, he's got the cutest personality imaginable, and he is a Formula one nerd. He's been watching, and he loves Lewis, and he loves Bono, Lewis's race engineer, who's always in his ear. So he's been watching for years, and he's hearing Bono say to Lewis, push, push, push. So Valentino Valentino gets in the car, and he goes, hello, Bono. And he goes, yes, Valentino. And he goes, will you tell it to me a push, push, push. Bono says, push, push, push. And he's like, ah.

[Monica Padman]

He's been waiting his whole life for that.

[Dax Shepard]

It was the purest moment. God.

[Monica Padman]

Isn't it funny though. You can be the absolute best at what they do. The towel fields. They're both the best ever speakers and yet they want to be the best at something else. Like, we are not satisfied as people. It is crazy.

[Toto Wolff]

But they are from a special breed. Also never satisfied.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. I mean, I guess that's how you get to be those people.

[Toto Wolff]

I hope I'm not saying anything that would be important for him. Intimate. He asked me once, you'd rather be successful or happy?

[Monica Padman]

We have talked about this too.

[Toto Wolff]

And I said, what is it with you? And he said, successful.

[Dax Shepard]

You want to hear verbatim one of my questions to you?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Are there certain endeavors that are inherently antithetical to mental health? The goal of a healthy human should be to feel worthy of love and affection regardless of their status or accomplishments. But that simply cannot be the goal of a person pursuing victory or perfection. How do we make peace with that? Your human goals are antithetical to almost your career goals as a human. What we would strive for is that I'm worthy of love and affection just because I exist. But in racing and business, it's not that. That's not the rules of the game. So you're balancing what you want as a human and then also. Also what you want is someone engaged in an endeavor.

[Toto Wolff]

But there are people that are really happy with their lives and they don't thrive for being in some kind of record books. Whatever our KPIs are, our various KPIs, yours, of the two of you will be very different in what you want to achieve.

[Monica Padman]

To mine specifically, was your answer happiness or was it success?

[Toto Wolff]

Since a few years they are converging before it was success only.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You're also 16 years older than Lewis.

[Toto Wolff]

12.

[Monica Padman]

That's our guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he's two years older than you.

[Monica Padman]

He's 14.

[Toto Wolff]

January.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh, Capricorn.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, Capricorn.

[Dax Shepard]

Three Capricorns.

[Toto Wolff]

I'm not into birthday. You know, I forgot. I forgot my wife's birthday.

[Monica Padman]

O, that's not a good.

[Toto Wolff]

So we were in a hotel in Stuttgart. We're coming down in the lobby there is my team waiting for us and they're all, happy birthday, Sui. And I was like, oh. So everybody looked at me because they know I'm not good with the States. Every day needs to be a birthday. Why need to celebrate that? You're already older than you are.

[Dax Shepard]

I couldn't agree more. I Think it's embarrassing to have birthday parties. All of it's embarrassing.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Toto Wolff]

But I get that you're celebrating that you're still alive. Maybe that's the reason. She's looking at me and she laughs and said, I had it all prepared for the afternoon.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what you said. Wait till you see what's coming in noon. You're texting someone on your team.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Help.

[Dax Shepard]

Help.

[Toto Wolff]

No, I got a card, but she knows me. So we have a weird age gap of these 12 years. But the gap is more like not a dad and son. It's more like brothers.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not father son.

[Toto Wolff]

No, no, no. We are much more peers, friends than father, son. We can vice versa. Play different roles if the other one needs the support or. Yeah. Difficult periods.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want to ask you this question because I don't think you're going to like it, but it crossed my mind. Was there any part of you that was relieved that Lewis decided to leave and that you never had to make that decision?

[Toto Wolff]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

You couldn't make that decision?

[Toto Wolff]

I couldn't make the decision from a personal standpoint. We owe him so much and I didn't want to do the decision as Mercedes. Letting the greatest champion ever go.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so disrespectful.

[Toto Wolff]

And maybe he felt that also. That's part of it. And he knew that Antonelli is in the pipeline. It was something that I almost had in the back of my mind that that would happen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think it's heartbreaking, but I also think it's the best version of what could have happened.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. It was a curveball thrown at us. And it still feels weird that he's going to wear a Ferrari overall next year and drive the red car. It's just a bit surreal. But we had this 17 year old in the pipeline. I didn't want to miss out on him like I did with Max back in the day. I didn't have a car. So that is all falling into place. Yeah. And I can kind of get where he's coming from. Because we weren't successful. Our car was not quick enough. Certainly had a mega offer on the table. Every Formula one driver wants to drive a Ferrari.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's it for me. Like, as someone who loved someone, even if I wanted them in my life, still, I would understand, like, yeah, that's what Schumacher did. That's what you do.

[Toto Wolff]

I want the best for him. Even though I'm gonna aim to beat him next year, but I want the best for him. Also from a personal side, I had.

[Dax Shepard]

A little fantasy when he left that you were somehow gonna get Adrian Newey and Max. Yeah, me too.

[Monica Padman]

I also have that fantasy.

[Toto Wolff]

So what can I say without saying?

[Dax Shepard]

You can't say shit.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, I. I think on the engineering side, I'm really happy where we are. We are not having the success on track that we would want to. We had three race victories this year, two on merit, but I feel in a really happy space with James Ellison being our technical director. We are reorganizing the team we've hired. We have let some people go. And on drivers, yours, Max and I, we always had a correct relationship. It suffered a bit in 2021 because it got dirty from both sides.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, it sucks. You were on the inside of it, so it's not as pleasurable on the outside. What a year.

[Toto Wolff]

What a year.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, what a fucking year.

[Toto Wolff]

And it's part of a great success we're having today. It was really dramatic. And I remember the topic that nobody wanted to touch on many Christmas tables was Trump, Brexit and Abu Dhabi 2021.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. I've been in many fights on my own. I have a single question about that event.

[Monica Padman]

Can we give some context for people.

[Dax Shepard]

Who don't know, the most improbable thing happened, which is in 2021, Max and Louis entered the final race tied at 235, 5.5 points. Something like this.

[Toto Wolff]

I don't remember the point. Five impulsive, same points and a half.

[Dax Shepard]

Point somehow add up the improbability that he has 2,500 employees making a car. Red Bull has 2,000 employees. You have all those variables. Different designs, two different human beings. Yeah, they're finishing every single qualifying within a hundredth of a second. There's too many variables for it's impossible. Now, you add in through all this dramatic season, there were points taken away, there were laps given, there was judgment calls. They land at 235.5. It's not possible. The race goes on. Max is not going to win. He is behind three cars that have been lapped. There's an accident. The race goes under safety car. So everyone's bunched up. Now, here's my question as I understand it, and I could be totally wrong. They unlap cars that have been passed. So the person between Max and Lewis, they're number one and two. But there's three cars in there. But they're in spots 18, 19, 20. So the rules, as I understand them, is that under a safety car, the cars in between are allowed to unlap themselves. So they're allowed to go out in front of the lead car and join the back of the pack where they belong.

[Monica Padman]

I see.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, but what's really weird is that they don't unlap them right away. That to me is like, this is the problem. It's not like who did what. It's like they should have been unlapped right away. They weren't. So four laps goes by and then they make a decision with one lap left to let the okay. Max is on brand new tires. Lewis is on 13 lap old tires. The safety car pulls up and Max passes him within two turns and he wins the championship. It would have been Lewis 8th championship which would have made him surpass Schumacher. The stakes could not have paused. I mean, the drama of it, it'll never get better. Now my question, and when I've been in arguments with people, I'm like, are you saying that they don't unlap cars or are you saying in that situation they shouldn't have unlapped cars?

[Toto Wolff]

The strict interpretation, the limitation of the rules is you need to unlap the cars and make them join at the back. So take one box. We win the championship. It's clear because there's not enough laps left and the race finishes under safety car. The second version is once you make the cars on lap, you need one more lap before green flag where you win the championship. The third one was more of an outlier against the rules. What we could understand is give it the last lap so you have a green flag lap and not behind a safety car. Then look, would have won because there was a few cars in between.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's questionable.

[Toto Wolff]

Three or four cars in between.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, Max potentially could have got by them. I don't know.

[Toto Wolff]

But I, you know, was anyway not part of the rule. We couldn't have pitted for fresh tires because we were in the lead. We would have given up position.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Toto Wolff]

And then the race would have ended up on the yellow or safety car. So we would have lost the race. So five laps to the end, we are world champions. There is no scenario.

[Dax Shepard]

You've won.

[Toto Wolff]

We've won.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

One I can see in the garage already. And. And then someone decides the rate of world championship should end with a lap. And what you say, unlapping those cars in the middle is unheard of. Both drivers were deserving champions because of the up and down during the season. And probably both of them should have been world champions.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll argue Too. You had a better card than Red Bull that year.

[Toto Wolff]

At the end, not the first half of the year. I think Lewis was the stronger driver in the second half. Max was in the first half. And the same with the cars. They should have both had the trophy. But on that day in that race, the race was decided and it fell the other way.

[Dax Shepard]

This is the most controversial thing in all of F. One of the last.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. And probably in most sports.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Toto Wolff]

That was so clear that the referee decided to do something which was not in the rule book. Not even a judgment call, but just not in the rule book. But having said that, it was more like the madness of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The chaos and the confusion.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. And I felt that the other side. And that's not Max. But, you know, there was not one sentence saying that was a difficult day for Mercedes.

[Dax Shepard]

That could have gone either way. We got lucky.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. They are both deserving champions today. It went against Mercedes. It went against us before. There was not one word from Christian or the other team in acknowledging that. It was like entitlement.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm guessing, though, because it was so disputable that to even say that sentence would have felt like a. Have tipped it. I don't know.

[Toto Wolff]

We would have said it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It would have been the right thing to do. There's humans at the end of all of this.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I entered the sport through Drive to survive.

[Toto Wolff]

Did you?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Toto Wolff]

Really? Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, this is boring. They don't pass each other. What is this racing? Who cares? And then when I learned what's happening technically, I was like, oh, this is way more in depth and interesting than it seems on the surface.

[Toto Wolff]

And I think the drama helped the sport also. Drive to survive happened when everybody was at home. And believe it not, our strongest growing demographic is a young female 15 to 24 year old.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Because there's all these hot boys driving around.

[Toto Wolff]

Is that the reason? We don't know really why.

[Monica Padman]

It's part of it for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

It doesn't hurt.

[Monica Padman]

It's definitely part of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Charles is a supermodel. Danny was the cutest guy in the world.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Lewis is gorgeous.

[Monica Padman]

They're all gorgeous.

[Dax Shepard]

There's only a couple duds in the whole group. Out of 20 guys. That's.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, the women do. They're like, that's my guy. That's my guy.

[Toto Wolff]

There's something for everyone. No.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Also, that show is just so well done.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

They really get you invested now.

[Dax Shepard]

That was one of my questions. I'm keeping you too long.

[Toto Wolff]

No, don't worry, we're on the phone for quite a while.

[Dax Shepard]

So you're a very smart person. You're also very incentivized because you own a third of the team. You're experiencing this from a lot of different viewpoints. You're a team principal. You got to win, but you're also an owner. And so I think you naturally saw that when Liberty Media came in and bought this and they expressed this goal of making the inner entertainment more present and the sport, but bringing the entertainment up. I've heard you talk about it and you're like, initially we were like, that's a little scary. But I think you're a business owner and this worked. I mean, fuck. The first time I went to Cota, the race weekend was 120,000 and it was 440 last weekend.

[Toto Wolff]

Single biggest event in the United States last year. Who would have ever thought that a Formula One race it 4X? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So you. At some point in the first year, Mercedes and Ferrari didn't participate in Drive to Survive.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I remember that.

[Toto Wolff]

Which a blessing in disguise for the sport because so many other personalities were featured.

[Dax Shepard]

It's true.

[Monica Padman]

Definitely.

[Dax Shepard]

We wouldn't have had Danny, we wouldn't have had Gunter, we wouldn't have had. Yeah, it was a blessing. We got to learn a lot about a lot of other drivers. But at some point you're smart enough and incentivized enough that you go, okay, great. So I get it. This entertainment thing's kind of working. And now you too have to assume a character in this soap opera. And I'm wondering a how easy that was for you to take on. I've been to races and been in the paddock and watched you walk around. You're a full blown movie star at that race. You know, you're on your scoot and people are excited having to be a character in the soap opera. How has that been?

[Toto Wolff]

So I think one of the features of myself and what I'm looking up to in other people is authenticity. We kind of feel when somebody's not authentic, you know, and even if you're intellectually not capable, you're not thinking about it. When you watch someone on telly or in a movie or you meet someone instinctively you say, I don't like that person or I like the person. And for me, there's a lot of correlation with being authentic and I don't want to walk away from that. So whatever I do, whether the cameras or the microphone points me, I'm trying to always be authentic and not act for the cameras. Super important.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's hard, though.

[Toto Wolff]

It's super hard.

[Dax Shepard]

It's tempting. It's right there.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. That's why we didn't play it the first season with Ferrari. I didn't want all of my people to be distracted by a camera and then suddenly performing.

[Dax Shepard]

Distracting.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. Of course the camera points on you, so I never do that. But you understand that the show is so successful that there is a lot more visibility of yourself in Formula one. That has happened. For me, the kind of status in terms of media visibility happened very late in my life. I was 45, 46. So I see it with a certain skepticism, Surprise. Why would people wanting to take a selfie with me? And I look at the benefits.

[Dax Shepard]

I could show you right now, exchanges between me and Brad Pitt talking about you. Seriously, I'm going to take full credit for this in front of you. He and I love MotoGP. I watch Drive to Survive. I text him. Watch this documentary. Text me when you've finished. I know It'll be within 24 hours. He texts me within 16 hours. This is incredible. I'm so in. Next is he befriends Louis. I'm learning that he's going and hanging out with Louis. And then I said, yeah, but let's talk about Toto. And he said, listen, I have this text. This is going to kill you. Toto's also a great dancer. He was somewhere and he saw you dancing and he's like, you're not going to believe this. Toto's also a great dancer. I'm like, oh, fuck, this guy's got it all.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Brad Pitt is completely enamored by you. That's a very weird turn of events at 45.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, absolutely. So I generally am not starstruck and I admire people that are really good in what they do independently, whether they are famous or not. But there was this moment when they started the documentary, they were interested in my role. And I think Javier Beardem plays a little bit of a Toto as a team owner and team principal, by the way, a super guy. Curious. Interested. We're talking about this and we are agreeing on dinner at our house in Oxford. It rings at the doorbell. Brad Pitt walks. What, into the house?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

It fucks you up, right?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

He's not human. He's like, it's a deity.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's a deity.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, George Clooney. I mean, there's not many of them. No.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

But even in that group, it's Brad Pitt.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, it's Brad Pitt. And that was a moment where I thought, we've come a long way that Brad Pitt is coming to the house.

[Dax Shepard]

How does Suzy handle Brad Pitt at dinner?

[Toto Wolff]

Well, she obviously says to me that she likes me much more.

[Dax Shepard]

But she has to say that, don't worry.

[Monica Padman]

Don't worry.

[Toto Wolff]

She has to say that. That was such a moment. But I'm looking at it, like I said, with a little bit of curiosity, why all of this is happening. And I haven't found many advantages of being on tv. I mean, you get a better table.

[Monica Padman]

In a restaurant, but yeah, other than that, that's sort of where it ends.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. Because you need to have your own vanity under control. And I'm realizing that I like that. And then I try to dial myself back and say that is just linked to the role. A politician is recognized by everyone. The moment the politician is stopping the activity, nobody cares. And the same is in many other jobs. You're a CEO of a company. Doesn't matter anymore. You stop as an actor or I stop in my role. That's gone. And I think you need to be prepared that if one day you step out of the hamster wheel that this is going to stop. And that's why it shouldn't play a big importance to us.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this has been an insane pleasure. My very last thing is Monica has only liked a single car. I try to get her interested in cars and she does not care. She likes a single car. The Mercedes 300 SL.

[Monica Padman]

It's a beautiful car.

[Dax Shepard]

Toto has one. You do?

[Monica Padman]

What color?

[Toto Wolff]

So I sold all the other cars.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. I had to tick the boxes in terms of what I wanted to have and achieve. And then I sold them all.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they're stressful.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah. Also, I didn't feel like it was authentic anymore, me driving around in an old Ferrari.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Toto Wolff]

So I only kept the Mercedes. And I have two of these. One Roadster convertible and one Gall Wing.

[Monica Padman]

That's the one.

[Dax Shepard]

Although you'd be happy in that convertible. He and Susie look so elegant. I feel like I'm watching like a 60s Italian film.

[Monica Padman]

That's a beautiful car.

[Toto Wolff]

The Gullwing, you know, is great, but it's getting very hot in there. There's no air condition. The engine in the gearbox is right underneath of you. So in la it would be troublesome.

[Monica Padman]

I love the heat. I can tell you love the heat.

[Dax Shepard]

Sinner jeans.

[Monica Padman]

I can.

[Dax Shepard]

Really.

[Toto Wolff]

So when you're next in Europe, tell us. We'll take you out in the car.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll do it.

[Monica Padman]

I will do it.

[Dax Shepard]

You bitch. That was my invite. That'd be like a Matt Damon invited.

[Monica Padman]

I'd be like. If Matt Damon invited me to.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, shit. That happened. Yeah, that happened.

[Monica Padman]

Bring me. Yeah, I wonder. I wonder how that would be.

[Dax Shepard]

I deserve this. Great.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. That's right.

[Toto Wolff]

I treat you, too. We look a little bit like Frankenstein's in the car if they're too tall, guys. So I'm taking the seating pillow out so I'm not looking too stupid.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay. And then I fit under the steering wheel.

[Dax Shepard]

So this was my very last one. So your wife is an incredible driver. I have to imagine she probably could turn better lap times than you at most places.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes, and I'm proud of that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

As you should be.

[Toto Wolff]

She was a professional driver. She says, what do you expect when we are getting this question asked? So we were karting in the past and she's always two seconds faster. And then I thought, I'm going to trick her. Obviously I'm heavier. So I put 25kg of ballast in the car.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great.

[Toto Wolff]

So that's the wife of my children.

[Dax Shepard]

They're maybe here.

[Toto Wolff]

They may be here.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. We're landing the plane.

[Toto Wolff]

So I put the weight in her car. Two seconds. She says the card is actually pretty good. How very stable. I got myself special qualifying tires. Red Vegas. Your finger sticks on them. Two seconds.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love this. Good for her.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, she's really quick.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Toto, this has been as fucking fun as I could have ever imagined for you.

[Toto Wolff]

Monica too.

[Monica Padman]

So fun. It's just Cob St. No, you're a star.

[Dax Shepard]

We kept it pretty. Not terrible.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's great. It's great.

[Toto Wolff]

I saw Monica rolling her eyes a little bit. Oh, no, we're talking.

[Dax Shepard]

I also want to throw this out here before we sign off. You allowed a journalist to write a book about what you're going through right now, which is a lot. And it's called inside Mercedes F1 life in the Fast Lane. And you guys all participate. It's a very good book to learn exactly what's happening on that team.

[Toto Wolff]

I was generally not a book fan because I get asked quite regularly about a biography or autobiography. And my answer is, let's do that when I'm 80. Because now people say I've been successful and let's write about it. But what is if I continue to fail now? So I don't want to have it stop at 50 and then take a nosedive. Exactly. So let's write it when I'm 80.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's make sure we get to the finish line.

[Monica Padman]

You already did, though.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah, or when I'm gone, then you can have a real summary.

[Monica Padman]

Right? That's true.

[Toto Wolff]

Exactly. I mean, we're suddenly over half time, both of us, and I hope so. We're over half time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

But that book is different and special because it gives an insight into how the team operates. It's not an ego story. It is just the operation of the team. So I was a bit skeptical, but the journalist embedded himself really well. It is a little bit of a nerdy book for the operations of a Formula one team, but it seemed very interesting.

[Monica Padman]

That's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very interesting. It's very well written and I recommend people who are interested at all in this to check that out inside. Mercedes F1. It's been a blast. I hope we get to talk to you again. And we will soon be on a twisty road in something.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, please.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you guys will be first in the 300.

[Monica Padman]

I can't wait.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, be well. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, they made some mistakes. Good morning.

[Monica Padman]

Good morning.

[Dax Shepard]

We were both feeling sweatery today.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's officially festive time.

[Dax Shepard]

How awake are you?

[Monica Padman]

I'm 22%.

[Dax Shepard]

22 too. That's pretty low.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Lowest you've ever been a shower.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Monica Padman]

Normally that wakes me up, but. Yeah. It's early for the listener.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's nine. That doesn't feel that. That doesn't sound that early.

[Dax Shepard]

But on a holiday, it feels absurd.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yesterday was Thanksgiving.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In our universe right now, we were.

[Monica Padman]

Out and up late.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What time did you go to slumber?

[Monica Padman]

What time did I leave? Like 10. I think I left around 10. And then I had a little work to do and then I had to work on today's gift guide.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you had to do that at night?

[Monica Padman]

I had to do a lot at night.

[Dax Shepard]

What time did you fall asleep?

[Monica Padman]

I probably fell asleep at like 12:30.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So not horrendous.

[Monica Padman]

No. I made a huge mistake yesterday. So when we were on the group chat, the girls group chat, figuring out timing for things. Thanksgiving.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Kristen wrote, come over around 12 and we'll eat around four.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I read. I don't know what happened. I read that as come at four. Like, I missed the 12 part. So I thought it was arrival time was four, which I did kind of think was late.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't love that choice.

[Dax Shepard]

No. The day's over.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But I thought, oh, she just wants it to be fast. So. Okay. And then I really hold on.

[Dax Shepard]

So I too, am in the intentions judging business. But when I come up with an intention, I do also evaluate. So when you were like, yeah, she wants it over fast. You're like, that sounds right.

[Monica Padman]

It's not that. I was like, oh, it's bad. She wants it over fast. It was just like, oh, maybe. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

She wants it in and out.

[Monica Padman]

Million reasons that a. So I just. I just didn't want to question it. So then I planned my whole day around a 4:00.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So what did that.

[Monica Padman]

I had to make two dishes, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Two beautiful dishes. Potatoes.

[Monica Padman]

Two sets of potatoes. One sweet, one mashed. And I was editing an episode and I had the whole plan. I was gonna, like, wake up leisurely and edit this episode.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Make my thing. Sip up plenty of time.

[Dax Shepard]

Coffee drink.

[Monica Padman]

Laura texted and said, based on Cece, her baby's nap time. She was. She said, she'll probably be around one. And I was like, one, she's gonna come three hours early. What's she thinking? Because of the baby. So then I scrolled up and I saw, and at this point, it was 11:30.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so you were into a panic.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And you were on a course of action at that point.

[Monica Padman]

I got there at 2:30, which was.

[Dax Shepard]

Very late from my perspective. But I didn't know about the erroneous 4pm start. So I was in a position of like, everyone's coming at noon. And then at noon, nobody comes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I hate when that happens.

[Dax Shepard]

At one nobody comes. And then I go to my insecure place of like, oh, wow, no one's coming to our things.

[Monica Padman]

Even though you knew everyone was coming.

[Dax Shepard]

I fast forward to whatever poor sucker does show up semi on time. They're gonna be like, where is everybody? No one wanted to come to this party.

[Monica Padman]

I guess that's funny because, I mean, I guess it's the same thing. You're thinking about me reading Kristin's text. But that feels outrageous to me because the only people there were our friends. So no one would ever. No one thinks like that when it's just the pod. If it was a random party.

[Dax Shepard]

It was starting to get a little embarrassing, though, that the kickoff time was new and we didn't have anyone at 1, I don't know, 30.

[Monica Padman]

This is the problem with the girls only being on the text.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's not great.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And do you think most friend groups, it's like that it's just the women.

[Dax Shepard]

The women chitter chattering yeah, Chatter, chatter, chatter. I do, I do.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I'm trying to. My friend group at home, similar guide.

[Dax Shepard]

Chains are very specific. I'm only on a few of them. I'm on like one with Wobby Wob for Formula One.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, nice.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's just, you know, so and so's getting fired. Yeah, they're fucking. They're gonna rule, you know, it's like.

[Monica Padman]

With Matt and Charlie too.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Matt, Charlie, Jethro Wab, myself. Who else is on it? Wob. Anyway, that's it. That's it. That's from all the boys that had to be in communication.

[Monica Padman]

I love that you're keeping it up.

[Dax Shepard]

If you see something outrageous in the F1 community, that's where you sound off. But there's very little. What? Very little logistics happening in there. Correct. And this is maybe again, I don't know the specific to me or this is common gender wise. But there's a lot of things. And you. And you're not a fan of a lot of these methodologies. I have and I agree they're flawed, but for me, they're most efficient. Like, I don't ever ask when there's 20 people over. I don't say who's in the mood for sushi. It's like, I know this group. I know what people like. A bunch of food will arrive and no one will care as long as there's food there.

[Monica Padman]

You make the decision for the group.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I don't do the hour and 20 minutes, minutes to order thing.

[Monica Padman]

That's fine. There's two ways of being.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, and yeah, exactly. And I'm not angry at the other approach other than when I'm hungry. I'm like, oh, my God, how long is it going to take everyone to decide on this? And then everyone's got. Anyways. So similarly, it's like, here's a time to do a thing if you want to or not. There's never a bunch of haggling over it or fine tuning. Also a window that's. I would have never. All blessings to my wife. That's confusing to me. Starts at noon, dinners at 4.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

It's too gray. Like, if I'm at home, like, what does that mean? When are people. Do people come two hours before dinner?

[Monica Padman]

No, for Thanksgiving.

[Dax Shepard]

I wouldn't even told them when dinner starts. I would just say, be here at 2. A split in the middle.

[Monica Padman]

She has to tell us because we're all cooking stuff. We have to know, like, I cooked.

[Dax Shepard]

The most in my house yesterday.

[Monica Padman]

What'd you cook? Shitty biscuits.

[Dax Shepard]

I made five trays of shitty biscuits. £4, biggest yield ever.

[Monica Padman]

That was. They were fantastic.

[Dax Shepard]

How many did you eat?

[Monica Padman]

Like four probably.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a good amount.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You cook the most in your house. Yeah, but everyone was making a lot of things and you have to plan it time wise because of oven time. Do you need to arrive with it hot? You have to know what time dinner's starting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay, great. I don't know, four hours. Take your pick. Throw a dart at the board. Seems a little. And we got what we reaped what we sowed, which is like you wandered in at 2:30, someone was there at 145, someone came at 3.

[Monica Padman]

It's fine then all.

[Dax Shepard]

It was all fine.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's the way it's supposed to be. Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to open the door like I'm in Sweden. Have you heard this joke about Swedish people? Like if you throw a party and you announce it to your co workers that I'm having a party at 5pm they say in Sweden the doorbell will ring and when you open the door all 52 guests will be there at two minutes before. Yeah, they're all there. It's not like one person's early. The whole group will be there at the exact same time.

[Monica Padman]

Well that's funny because on a previous flightless bird we did talk about like arrival times and being late and parties because David was acknowledging, oh, it looks like in America people arrive late whenever.

[Dax Shepard]

They'Re in the mood to get there, which they give them a nice four hour berth and just land somewhere.

[Monica Padman]

Think about any party, like a Halloween party. You don't go at the time.

[Dax Shepard]

That's my point entirely. Think about a Halloween evening party if there's so much anxiety. They said it starts at 8. No one's probably getting there at 8. You don't want to be the one person there. And then you're like, I guess that really means 10:15 everyone.

[Toto Wolff]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And you have all this anxiety and you can't plan it right. If it was just like forget the eight, forget the early arrival, let's go with when people are really going to come. Let's say this party starts at 9:30.

[Monica Padman]

But then people will come at 11.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think everyone's just responding to this willy nilly broad strokes.

[Monica Padman]

Well I.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a four hour window of arrival time.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well technically I was actually an hour and a half early to dinner. Two and a half Hours late arrival time.

[Dax Shepard]

The hang time.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You're right, though. It was the pod. So I didn't get too insecure. But if that was like, my birthday.

[Monica Padman]

Party, that's what we normally do. We just roll in and roll out.

[Dax Shepard]

By 1:30, I would have canceled the birthday party. Like, if it started at noon. And at 1:30, it was still just my family sitting there. And then my anxiety of who's going to be the first one there to see that I'm a nerd, that no one came. I just canceled it.

[Monica Padman]

Were you sitting on the couch?

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I try to make myself a little busy. I'm like, I'm going to go. I don't want to be sitting at the door when people walk in like, hi. And I'm on the couch in my Thanksgiving best. Anyways. Spectacular Thanksgiving.

[Monica Padman]

Beautiful Thanksgiving, really.

[Dax Shepard]

Another. Another perfect Thanksgiving.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What were your highlights? I'm sure you can guess mine.

[Monica Padman]

I can guess yours. You played volleyball. Okay. That was your Christmas.

[Dax Shepard]

Volleyball.

[Monica Padman]

Thanksgiving.

[Dax Shepard]

When I grew up, we went to a family reunion in Sturgis, Michigan, at the Le Bows. And it was at the motel, and there's a conference room. And you had a big, huge. I don't know how many there were of us. 35. There's six kids and carrying kids. And then you played football in the field. It was cold as hell. All the uncles and stuff. Kind of fun. I can't. The kids couldn't really play football. The adults are running around tearing hamstrings and stuff. And the kids are like, I'm open, you know?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You're just out there running around, I guess.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And acting like you're a part of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And then you're a big boy, like your uncles, throwing a football. So we didn't have a sport contingency out here. And I really like now that volleyball might be an option.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

My favorite was secret turkey. So lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

Secret turkey. And again, we. Everyone already knows how it works. Lily assigns it. But I will say this year I think people try to top themselves from the previous years. It's on a kind of an untenable course.

[Monica Padman]

It is. It's getting out of control.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It was like that present.

[Monica Padman]

Ryan made a knife.

[Dax Shepard]

He forged a knife, and he made the handle out of wood.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm guilty of the thing. I've yelled at you about my do not disturb.

[Monica Padman]

She's changed her all her ways. You say one mean thing, one critical thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Highlights of secret turkey. What do you think were. Oh, God, I'm biased. A Little bit. I'm so impressed with Delta's hot air balloon baseball. What a present.

[Monica Padman]

She made such a cute one.

[Dax Shepard]

One 25 hour man. 25 man hours. @ least.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. These presents took forever.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to talk about. You gave a Advent calendar.

[Monica Padman]

I did. I made no to Amy.

[Dax Shepard]

To Amy. Correct.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, I made one.

[Dax Shepard]

You said Molly is Amy. You gave it to Amy.

[Monica Padman]

So I bought these little boxes.

[Dax Shepard]

You purchased those?

[Monica Padman]

I purchased the cardboard box at a box store.

[Dax Shepard]

Cardboard box store.

[Monica Padman]

Amazon.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Amazon.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you can order them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They come in a sheet and you assemble them. Oh, great.

[Monica Padman]

So I assembled all of them and then I made them into a Christmas tree shape.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that standard Advent calendar?

[Monica Padman]

A lot of them are made into Christmas tree shapes. Not all. Some of them are rectangles, but I wanted to make it festive. And so I drew on each one. I drew like the number and I drew all over each box. And after the third box, I thought, I am not gonna make it. I can't do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, great. I'm glad you brought this up. I wouldn't have said anything, but I looked at it and it was enormously impressive. It was huge. I wanna say it was like 28 inches tall.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it was huge. It didn't fit in a trash bag.

[Dax Shepard]

18 inches wide. Maybe 24 inches wide. 24. Let's say the top boxes were like pictures and drawing. And then I noticed on the bottom, I just noticed it says like 21 20. It seemed like you.

[Monica Padman]

22, 23, 24. That wasn't a cheat. That was. I knew you would think that. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know about Advent calendar.

[Monica Padman]

I actually anticipated Eric was going to say this out loud.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I didn't say anything, of course. I didn't want to humiliate anyone, but you just told me you started phoning it in and I thought.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't lie. You didn't even let me finish. Okay, the reason the bottom is just. The bottom row, 22, 23, 24 was out of brown marker and it just said it. But that's because that's the stump. Oh, that's the stump. The rest is the tree. The top had a star on it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, beautiful. It was hugely impressive. I don't know why you're upset.

[Monica Padman]

Because you're. Oh, my God. You're so gaslighty. You're like, I see you phoned it in. I don't know why you're upset about it.

[Dax Shepard]

No, just at the end, it looked like at the end you were like, that's Enough.

[Monica Padman]

That was the stomp.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so it was supposed to look like wood.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And the. After the third one, I thought, I can't do this anymore. This is.

[Dax Shepard]

This would be a five day project.

[Monica Padman]

And then I thought, this is for Amy. She's an angel. She's a true angel on earth.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay?

[Monica Padman]

So she deserves this. So it was a five day project.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I didn't listen to the end.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you didn't. I did not follow.

[Dax Shepard]

So the bottom was a choice. You can see from the layperson at the end. It just said. Oh, wow. It was written in black.

[Monica Padman]

It wasn't black. It was brown and gold.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it was gold too.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, I glued all the boxes together.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you use a hot glue gun?

[Monica Padman]

I had to.

[Dax Shepard]

Or Elmer's glue gun?

[Monica Padman]

I tried Elmer's. It didn't work. I had to use gorilla and super. Okay, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you get a bunch on your fingers?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And then I glued all of that to a piece of cardboard, and then I had to exacto knife around it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. For structural integrity.

[Monica Padman]

I bought. Bought an X acto knife.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All ordered off of the Internet.

[Monica Padman]

No, some of them were postmates.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you go? Oh, postmates.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But you never went to an arts and crafts store.

[Monica Padman]

Did I go to Blick? No, but I use materials I have purchased from Blick before.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. All right.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, it's really fun. And then I had to fill each.

[Dax Shepard]

Box up, so that's. I. All this was leading up, we got derailed by my observation and my apologies, but I'm dying to know what's inside.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, everyone is.

[Dax Shepard]

I've never owned an Advent calendar. I've only seen them in Christmas vacation.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, and there's chocolates inside, usually, normally, but these are real treats.

[Dax Shepard]

Are there any? You can say that by the time the Sarah show have opened those three days.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay. Amy, if you are listening. No, because this is hers. It goes all the way through December, her calendar. So Amy is listening because she's, as I said in angel, she listens to everything. So please cover your ears. Turn this off.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Right.

[Monica Padman]

Fast forward.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you Ryan too, because he's not a good secret keeper. Remember, he tells Amy. Okay, Ryan, want you to know about Cosby. What about Cosby? No, I don't want you to know. That's a real life thing, by the way.

[Monica Padman]

It is. Okay, so both of you fast forward a couple minutes. So, yeah, there's like. Well, she opened one. We let her open one. It was a sheep ornament.

[Toto Wolff]

All right.

[Dax Shepard]

Beautiful ornament.

[Monica Padman]

I got her like a little lip Cute. Little like lipstick. Some measuring spoons. All cut. Oh, a fine.

[Dax Shepard]

There's like 25 presents in there.

[Monica Padman]

Well, every other one is a real present.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Feels like a really cute wine.

[Dax Shepard]

Me off days is a chocolate.

[Monica Padman]

Two teas. Fancy teas.

[Dax Shepard]

Drinking tea.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. She has a tea drawer, so I figured she could put. Make her tea drawer. Cute.

[Dax Shepard]

That's great. How long do you think it took you to make this present?

[Monica Padman]

It took a really long time. Plus then the purchases. Plus the. Yeah, it was an adventure.

[Dax Shepard]

My family had commandeered the entire dining room table, put plastic over it. And this was going on for three days.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And there were two full days where the three of them all sat at this table doing art projects, competing over the oils and the paint.

[Monica Padman]

They all did paintings.

[Dax Shepard]

There were a lot of meltdowns and blow ups. So God bless. I stayed out of there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I went up to the attic with my new light board to make my present for Matt.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Which was a collage, I guess you'd call it.

[Monica Padman]

It was a collage. It was very, very, very good.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Monica Padman]

You drew a lot of things that were Matt. Matt's favorite things.

[Dax Shepard]

Maple Leaf's logo. He's very into Muay Thai kickboxing right now. So two Muay Thai fighters. Picture of him holding his baby off of Instagram. And then above his head, a sim racing setup, which he loves. And then scissors. Cause he's a hairstylist.

[Monica Padman]

I know. It was very cute. And you framed it.

[Dax Shepard]

I think the sky's the limit with this light board. It's an enormous cheat. But as we talked about, you and I, there's a lot of fun in assembling and then interpreting what your collage is going to be.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And now I have whole new fantasies about being able to use the light board to draw like a downtown cityscape and then put my weird characters in them. So hybrid. Do a little photo realism. And then my weird characters.

[Monica Padman]

I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

I've got a whole fantasy. Oh, my life with this lightboard.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. Wow. That's great. What a good hobby.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Yeah, I love that.

[Dax Shepard]

Pretty fun. Speaking of the lightboard.

[Monica Padman]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

On a previous fact check, I said I couldn't do a crow. That's right. Couldn't do it. But I got this lightboard. And now I got a crow.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And so now the.

[Monica Padman]

The sweatshirt.

[Dax Shepard]

Sweatshirt is complete.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So they're going to go on sale Friday, December 6th. That is in two days. Two days at 9am Pacific. So if you're in New York, that's noon. Dingles. Lunch break. If you're in the mountain areas, I don't know, maybe 11. Maybe.

[Monica Padman]

If you're check your time zones.

[Dax Shepard]

Central, it's 10. I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

I'm having stress for everyone's time zones.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't keep mountain and central straight. Which one's earlier than the other? But Pacific time, 9am and you go to armchair expert pod.com.

[Monica Padman]

It'S a very cute sweatshirt.

[Dax Shepard]

I really like it. Yeah, I think it turned out really, really cute.

[Monica Padman]

It did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's really nice.

[Dax Shepard]

You're mouse is the best part.

[Monica Padman]

And everyone's seen the mouse at this. Well, not everyone, but a lot of people have seen the mouse at this point because it has appeared on my gift guides.

[Dax Shepard]

I read day one of the gift guide.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you did? Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And what are you going to guess? My favorite joke is in it. There's one.

[Monica Padman]

Did you read substack or did you read just Instagram? Oh, you read the whole thing?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

The joke about Kristen on the phone. No, I don't remember. Day one was a while ago. Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think some people might miss that. Maybe not. Maybe that's really obvious. But she only turned one.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You blew out all of her candle.

[Monica Padman]

I did.

[Dax Shepard]

That's really funny. Thanks. Okay, so Secret Turkey was an incredible success. Other call out again. Delta made a hot air balloon with like a structure in a floating balloon.

[Monica Padman]

It was incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

Made the balloon a baseball ace. Loves baseball. Ballast on the side of the basket, like sandbags.

[Monica Padman]

It was so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Light fixture inside that I guess replicated the fire going up. I don't know if that was just.

[Monica Padman]

I think it was festive.

[Dax Shepard]

Festive.

[Monica Padman]

How'd she buy a light thing? She bought it off Amazon.

[Dax Shepard]

I think she went and watched a tutorial on how to make a hot air balloon.

[Monica Padman]

That's so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Laura gave me a beautiful photorealistic. I like saying that word.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Charcoal drawing of little Mr. Texas.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. It should probably go in here.

[Dax Shepard]

It should run her up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, run her up.

[Dax Shepard]

Little Mr. Jackson.

[Monica Padman]

If you missed that episode with Matthew McConaughey, that was the first time he was on.

[Dax Shepard]

So I, you know, I have this very, very arm's distance relationship with him. We've done a few things together and I'm considering. I think I want to take a picture of that and say I received this as a gift.

[Toto Wolff]

Do you.

[Dax Shepard]

Where do you. How do you think that lands? I think that's good.

[Monica Padman]

Idea. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You never know if stuff's flattering or is bordering on weird and obsessed.

[Monica Padman]

Well, yeah. Cause I mean, I guess he'll be like for Thanksgiving. I mean, you might have to explain the who.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a lot to unpack. If you. If I. Let's just reverse this. He sends me a picture that a family member or friend Drew of me gave to him.

[Monica Padman]

You'd love it.

[Dax Shepard]

I'd love it, right? As long as it was a flattering picture.

[Monica Padman]

You would love it. And I think he would love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We're both kind of similar in that way. What do we call that? Attention whores.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

What is it? Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by the thrilling Apple TV plus legal drama Presumed Innocent from the masters of brilliant character driven storytelling, David e. Kelly and J.J. abrams. Have you seen this series yet? It's about a horrific murder investigation that upends the Chicago prosecuting attorney's office when one of its own chief deputy prosecutor Rusty Savage, played by Jake Gyllenhaal. Ding, ding, ding.

[Monica Padman]

Friend of the pod.

[Dax Shepard]

Is suspected of the crime. There are so many twists and turns that will keep you on the edge of your seat right until the very end. Which is probably why Variety rave that it was one of the best legal thrillers in years. If I were you, I'd stream it on Apple tv. Plus, the second this podcast finishes.

[Monica Padman]

Rob, put a box by my.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait. What's going on?

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

You. Oh, my God. You have. There's gifts already.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, what? Oh, my God. Sweet. Stop.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, is that an Emily Burger pretzel bomb.

[Monica Padman]

What in the world? She made this.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my.

[Monica Padman]

Photorealistic celebs on sandwiches. This is so flat flattering.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I get a better look at it?

[Monica Padman]

And it's an Emily Burger.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Figure out what your favorite. How do they find the picture?

[Monica Padman]

You told them that? Yeah. That was perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what's interesting? What do you think I'm going to say about this rendition of you?

[Monica Padman]

That my mouth looks big?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't really ever think you look like your mom, but in this rendition, you look a bit like your mom.

[Monica Padman]

I. I could see that. I actually. I actually think it's pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

It's outrageously good.

[Monica Padman]

Accurate.

[Dax Shepard]

Somehow a bit of NER is in it more than normal.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I look like her.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

This is so flattering. Celebs on sandwiches.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a big moment.

[Monica Padman]

I. This is. I gifted this a few times. To people. It was on my, I think, original gift guide. Celebs on sandwiches. My. My original.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, jeez. Original guide.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. How sweet. Okay, well, that's. That's really flattering. Thank you. Celebs, sandwiches.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what's going to be weird? Okay, so Kristen had you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, she did.

[Dax Shepard]

And she did this beautiful painting she did by hand, of you.

[Monica Padman]

It's incredible. It's gorgeous.

[Dax Shepard]

And all kinds of positive affirmations written along it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it was beautiful.

[Dax Shepard]

But I am starting to think, like, you have an inordinate amount of photos and paintings of yourself now for your house.

[Monica Padman]

I think this should live here.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

With yours.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Mine's right behind your head, so maybe yours should be behind my head. I don't know how that'll work. All to say, you have quite an interesting bank of art now you've accumulated. And I just wonder, like, on a first date, when a guy goes into your house and there's, like, a ton of paintings of yourself.

[Monica Padman]

I think it's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

It's fine, right? It'll be seen as playful.

[Monica Padman]

I have a lot of art.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So it's.

[Dax Shepard]

It'll get lost in the show.

[Monica Padman]

It's not that. The only art I have.

[Dax Shepard]

If you have a whole wall that's just you.

[Monica Padman]

Like you did when I was.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. 20 years ago.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, when you lived alone.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. I didn't know what to do.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you'd be.

[Dax Shepard]

I just printed up photos from movie stills that they send you. It's rough.

[Monica Padman]

It's okay. It happened.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. They know what to do.

[Monica Padman]

I know. So I feel like you're projecting a little bit of your own.

[Dax Shepard]

Probably my own embarrassment from past.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. This is gonna live here. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess we could have unlimited pictures of ourselves here.

[Monica Padman]

And it's not sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's really special. And on an Emily Burger. Pretty jealous about the food item. I mean, I can't complain because I've got a Coney dog from Detroit, which is great, but, boy, that's.

[Monica Padman]

That's really nice. Okay. Well, yeah, Thanksgiving was a big hit. I'm really thankful to our arm cherry. I mean, Thanksgiving is in the past now, but I'm still thankful to our listeners, our beautiful arm cherries.

[Dax Shepard]

Me, too. Me, too.

[Monica Padman]

We're so lucky. And this is for Toto.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to say there's something we.

[Monica Padman]

Earmarked you wanted to talk about. Max Verstappen.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

And I told you to wait till this.

[Dax Shepard]

Toto.

[Monica Padman]

Because Toto.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I just simply want to say he's this. He won his fourth title in a row. It's been a really dicey year for him. Red Bull's finishing third or fourth in the Constructors Championship, so their car is not by any stretch the best. Yet he still managed to win.

[Monica Padman]

Crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

A lot of it. Because of this impossible rain race he had two races ago in Brazil, which when they make the documentary like Senna about him, in 20 years, this race is going to be a good 15 minutes of it. Started in 17th in the rain. Finished first by 20 seconds past 11 people in the first 11 layups drive of his life.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Incredible year.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, so cool. Congratulations to Max. Congratulations to Toto for being.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Toto won Toto, which Mercedes has been struggling so bad. Vegas, they came in first and second.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

So this is good timing also.

[Monica Padman]

I love Toto. Absolutely loved him. He was such a. He was so much more playful than I anticipated.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a rascal. That was a reveal.

[Monica Padman]

I enjoyed him so much. So now I'm for team. Because now that Danny isn't racing. Racing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't have anyone to root for. So now I root for Mercedes because of Toto.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. That's great.

[Monica Padman]

I'm going to buy a hat. It also makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

It's definitely the team you would have wanted to support anyways.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

The classiest team on the grid.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You wouldn't want to support an energy drink.

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't. Okay, now some facts. He brought up Nikki Lauda.

[Toto Wolff]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

It's a hard word to say, a hard name to pronounce. Lauda.

[Dax Shepard]

L, A, U, D, E, D, A.

[Monica Padman]

It's spelled correctly. It's just like it. It seems like you're being pretentious, but you're not.

[Dax Shepard]

Niki Lauda.

[Monica Padman]

Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Niki Lauda. I think that's what you're supposed to say.

[Toto Wolff]

Niki Lauda.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. He is Austrian.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Toto Wolff]

Lauda.

[Dax Shepard]

That's why it's Lauda. Niki Lauda. I love Nikki. He's a mentor.

[Toto Wolff]

Lauda.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, how about this? I'm gonna ask your name.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, boy. How do I do this? Okay, I'm gonna ask your name. You're going to say Nikki Lauda.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

What's your name?

[Monica Padman]

Nikki Lauda.

[Dax Shepard]

What is your name?

[Monica Padman]

Nikki.

[Dax Shepard]

Because louder sounds like louder. It's pretty good. One more time.

[Monica Padman]

No, we already did, but maybe it'll.

[Dax Shepard]

Be fun a second time. What's your name?

[Monica Padman]

Nikki Lauda.

[Dax Shepard]

Why is is your name.

[Monica Padman]

It wasn't better the second time. It was the first time.

[Toto Wolff]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

My timing Got worse.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Okay. Now, he competed in Formula One from 1971 to 1979. And from 1982 to 1985 he won three Formula One Drivers Championship titles and at the time of his retirement held the record for Most podium finishes. 54. He remains the only driver to have won a World Drivers Championship with Both Ferrari and McLaren. And won 25 Grand Prix across 13 seasons.

[Dax Shepard]

And was horribly burnt.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In a mid career crash. And kept at it.

[Monica Padman]

It's amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Didn't care.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He's passed. He passed in 2019. He died in his sleep at 70 where he had been undergoing kidney dialysis. He had experienced a period of ill health exacerbated by his lung injuries from the night 1976 accident. He had a double lug transplant the previous year and kidney transplants in 97 and 2015. His body really went through it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Double lung and double kidney. Now we're get. We're. Now we're like. We're 20% through all the organs being replaced.

[Toto Wolff]

Hmm.

[Monica Padman]

Did you just kiss your hand?

[Dax Shepard]

Did I what?

[Monica Padman]

Did you just kiss your hand?

[Dax Shepard]

Kiss my hand? No, I just went like that.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I thought.

[Dax Shepard]

I always. I neurotically make sure the corners of my mouth. That's a rough one for me.

[Monica Padman]

Will you see people with that?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. A bunch of paste in there. I can't. You don't. You don't have it and you don't ever have it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Yeah, but I know, I know what you mean.

[Dax Shepard]

And it is talking with a really sticky mouth that to me, I'd rather smell something bad. And I already said smells are my worst.

[Monica Padman]

You'd rather smell something bad?

[Dax Shepard]

I can't deal if I'm watching like a TED Talk and someone's mouth gets really, really dry and starts doing that. I'm like, fuck. I can't listen to. Because even if I look away, I can hear it. I don't have misophonia, but I do just.

[Monica Padman]

I, I understand.

[Dax Shepard]

You understand that.

[Monica Padman]

I do. I. I do. It's not. Well, it's funny to me that you'd rather smell it because I think what's gross is I do think it has a smell.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's just so sticky.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. All right.

[Toto Wolff]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

So he was 70 and. But he lived. He lived a life doing what he loved. Oh, when I thought you were kissing, I thought. Thought you were giving him like.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, a send off.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Have you been jealous? In movies when you watch the cat, what is it? Gentle? Flecked? Is that what it's called gentle fleck. I do touch your forehead, then your sternum and then your both sides. Do the cross. Yeah, I. I like that pageantry.

[Monica Padman]

I do too.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I feel really. Can you knock on wood? Because I feel like we shouldn't have just done that a few times.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. And that brings me to one thing that we left out that we need to address. Definitely the best secret turkey of the night was Eric took 30 pounds of candy and somehow made a painting of Lauren. Matt's baby in candy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He made a portrait of CC out of candy.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was at both times very good.

[Monica Padman]

It was.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was absolutely terrifying. It was one of the most horrific photo. It looked like the most evil baby in the world. It look like Michael Myers. Michael Myers. It looked like the baby was wearing a hockey mask.

[Monica Padman]

A goalie's mask because he used white saltwater taffy for the face.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And it was insane looking and there was hair.

[Monica Padman]

But there was also a resemblance to her. It was. It was. It was pretty good.

[Dax Shepard]

Back to knock on wood. I was like that feels like.

[Monica Padman]

That feels like you thought it was a bad omen.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought it was a curse. No, like akin to a. A voodoo doll.

[Monica Padman]

I know. But it wasn't. It was a sweet portrait. No. Sweet portrait made of candy by Eric. And he put a lot of time into it. And.

[Dax Shepard]

And the eyes are just black.

[Monica Padman]

The person has to curse it. Eric didn't curse it.

[Dax Shepard]

That's how he doesn't know his powers as well as he should though. He might accidentally curse. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Speaking of Detroit versus Austria homicides. The city city of Detroit finished 2023 with 252 homicides which is the fewest recorded since 19 1966. We like that. Like that Trajectory.

[Dax Shepard]

Great trajectory.

[Monica Padman]

Now there isn't any information about Austria in 2023, but there is 2017.

[Dax Shepard]

There probably hasn't been a MER since 17.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. There were 54 intentional homicides in Austria.

[Dax Shepard]

In the whole country.

[Monica Padman]

In the whole country in 2017. Although now I'm looking at the word intentional.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, we wouldn't count vehicular homicide side.

[Monica Padman]

What about if you're shooting and hunting? If you're hunting in Detroit and you. Not a lot of I know that would count if you accidentally killed someone.

[Dax Shepard]

Well no, cuz that wouldn't be intentional be accidental.

[Monica Padman]

No, I know but I'm saying in the Detroit one doesn't say intentional. So maybe they're including accidentals. Maybe Isle of Man really quick.

[Dax Shepard]

What's the potential population of Australia?

[Monica Padman]

You mean Austria.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, Austria. 9.13 million. 9.13. So about 10 times the size of Detroit. Detroit's under a million people.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. 10x the people and 1/5 the murders. Yeah, 630,000 in Detroit. So we could say that's actually a 50x.

[Monica Padman]

All right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Isle of man is a self governing British crown dependency in the Irish Sea between England and Ireland. And then, yes, it has this big race that. It's a big deal. Annual cross country motorcycle race.

[Dax Shepard]

They race around the island. It's the most terrifying thing. It is in all of motorsports. The absolute pinnacle of craziness. It's the Mount Everest of motorsports.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's it for Toto. He was lovely and I really, really enjoyed him.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And really quick. This should have been said at the beginning, but now we're here at the end. We are here early on this day because this is one among your most special days of the year.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

You and Kelly are going Black Friday sale shopping, but at places without Black Friday sales. Well, which is really incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Sometimes they have like 20% offs in certain stores. We go to Brentwood country market. It's very, very, very fun. And I'm re. I'm so excited to go do that with.

[Dax Shepard]

How many hours will you spend there?

[Monica Padman]

Just a few. And then we'll come back and then we're going to go to rolling greens the plants and get some Christmasy items. Too.

[Dax Shepard]

Fun. What time will you start drinking at the mart? Right away. When you get there. Mimosas?

[Monica Padman]

No, we don't always drink.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you don't?

[Monica Padman]

No. We'll probably get coffee and then we get lunch. So when we get lunch, sometimes there's wine at lunch, but it's not like. We're not like, carrying around flasks.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you're not? No. Flasks?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Wine silks?

[Monica Padman]

No. But I'm excited for that. And then tomorrow's pig day. I get my Christmas tree.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, It's a very busy three days.

[Monica Padman]

It's my favorite stretch of the year. Yeah, I'm excited. And it's sort of a ding, ding, ding. Cause it's like F1. Oh. F1 race is kind of like this stretch of the year. Final lap.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Also, on my gift guide that I put out today, I included an F1.

[Dax Shepard]

Coffee table book I saw, and it.

[Monica Padman]

Was titled F1 the Impossible Something.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no, the actual.

[Monica Padman]

The little Prince.

[Dax Shepard]

The Little Prince. I thought this was very playful and fun.

[Monica Padman]

My. All of them. Each gift guide this year, there are five of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Are Book themed, correct? Yeah, the first one was about her.

[Monica Padman]

No, the first one was the Time Traveler's Wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, wife.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Then it was Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. My favorite book. Those are more mundane items. Then it was what's Tomorrow Tomorrow Tomorrow About? Well, it's about this. These gamers. But the title to me represents, like it's just day after day after day. Okay, so it's Monday night Ems. Then it was for little fires everywhere. That was a candle theme.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And today was.

[Dax Shepard]

That's another good book too.

[Monica Padman]

Tomorrow, do you want to hear Lord of the Rings?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Oh, Jewel, this is. This might be your peak creative endeavor thus far.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I throw a book out as a challenge? And then you gotta come up with.

[Monica Padman]

Gifts that next year.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay, great.

[Monica Padman]

It was only five days. Well, sure, go ahead. Let's see.

[Dax Shepard]

Of Mice and Men.

[Monica Padman]

It would be armchair themed.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

And it would have our holidays mice and men. So it'd have our holiday sweater on it. It would have celebs on sandwiches.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, this is great. Ember mugs.

[Monica Padman]

It would have ember mugs.

[Toto Wolff]

The Budenoki mugs.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I almost put salty sea dog mugs, but they're sold out. And it felt un. Felt a little.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it was like a waste. No one can get it.

[Monica Padman]

I did put a candle on. That's always sold out too. But I had to.

[Dax Shepard]

You had it.

[Monica Padman]

Best boy statues.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you were just putting stuff in here for sale on your gift guide and you didn't tell us?

[Monica Padman]

And one of the gifts for that will also be Back's cashmere sweater in. That's a long game. It's like they sign up and they get it in 50 years. So I did it.

[Dax Shepard]

And you get updates. Like once a year you get a photo of how big your sample it is getting smaller. I know.

[Monica Padman]

You need to add some.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, we gotta cross do.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Great. Okay. Well, holidays are upon us. I'm so happy. Thanksgiving was a blast. And now onward and upward onto Christmas.

[Monica Padman]

Yay.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's go. Pedal to the metal. I love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] Survey Bombas.

[Toto Wolff]

Presents unsolicited gifting advice.

[Monica Padman]

Number one, if they say not to get them anything. Get them something 2. Underwear is a great gift, just not for your boss.

[Toto Wolff]

And three, those absurdly soft Bombas socks.

[Dax Shepard]

And slippers you've been eyeing for yourself. They'll love those.

[Monica Padman]

And the fact that for every item.

[Toto Wolff]

You purchase, another is donated to someone who needs it. They'll love that even more.

[Dax Shepard]

Go to bombas.com wondery and use code.

[Monica Padman]

Wondery for 20% off your first purchase.

[Toto Wolff]

That's bombas.com wondery code wondery.