Walton Goggins

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Featuring Walton Goggins

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, host Dax Shepard engages in an in-depth conversation with the versatile and accomplished actor Walton Goggins. Released on February 17, 2025, the episode delves into Goggins's multifaceted career, his personal experiences, and his philosophical outlook on life and acting. Through honest and heartfelt dialogue, Shepard and Goggins explore the complexities of being human, overcoming stereotypes, and the dedication required to sustain a successful acting career.

1. Walton Goggins’s Early Life and Upbringing

Walton Goggins opens up about his tumultuous childhood, marked by instability and vivid memories that shaped his resilience and work ethic. Born in Birmingham, Alabama, Goggins spent his formative years moving between various locations, including Decatur, Georgia, and Lithia Springs. He recounts a particularly terrifying memory from his early childhood:

[18:35] Walton Goggins: "I saw someone crawl in front of my window… I couldn’t scream."

Goggins describes his mother as a central figure who maintained sanity amidst a household filled with eccentric relatives. He emphasizes the importance of dependable relationships, citing his neighbors Ken and Carol as pillars of support during his youth.

2. Breaking Stereotypes in Acting

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Goggins’s deliberate choice to avoid typecasting in his early career. He shares his experience with the pilot for Justified, explaining why he initially turned it down:

[14:02] Walton Goggins: "I felt that it was so one-dimensional… I couldn’t perpetuate this stereotype."

Goggins highlights his commitment to authenticity and cultural representation, insisting on roles that offer depth and complexity rather than adhering to reductive stereotypes. This decision underscored his dedication to meaningful storytelling and respect for diverse backgrounds.

3. Navigating a Diverse Acting Portfolio

Goggins’s career is celebrated for its diversity, spanning genres from drama to comedy to action. Shepard praises Goggins for his ability to excel across different types of roles:

[01:09] Dax Shepard: "Best actor and I think Walton would be the shoe in."

Goggins discusses his standout performances in projects like The Shield, Justified, Righteous Gemstones, The Hateful Eight, and White Lotus. He explains how each role allowed him to explore different facets of his acting abilities and contribute uniquely to each narrative.

4. Memorable Roles and Collaborations

The conversation delves into Goggins’s experiences working with prominent directors and actors. Notably, Goggins shares an inspiring anecdote about his collaboration with Quentin Tarantino:

[46:11] Walton Goggins: "Mike White wants me to do White Lotus Season three… I felt like I know how to tell his story."

He recounts auditioning for Tarantino’s projects and the pivotal moment when Tarantino personally invited him to join the Hateful Eight, leading to a significant breakthrough in his career. Goggins emphasizes the importance of genuine connections and mutual respect in the acting community.

5. Personal Relationships and Influence

Goggins discusses his long-standing friendship with Dax Shepard and their dynamic interactions. He attributes much of his personal growth to these relationships:

[28:32] Walton Goggins: "My wife is often the smartest person in any room I walk into… She makes me presuming the very best version of myself."

Their dialogue explores how having intellectually stimulating and challenging relationships fosters personal and professional development. Goggins also touches on the impact of his wife’s intellectual prowess on his approach to life and work.

6. Overcoming Personal Challenges and Growth

Walton Goggins candidly shares his struggles with insecurity and the chip on his shoulder stemming from a challenging upbringing. He reflects on how his experiences have fueled his passion for acting and his desire to create authentic characters:

[25:08] Walton Goggins: "I had to generate my own structure. It helped me. It served me my entire life."

Goggins emphasizes the significance of self-love, setting boundaries, and continuous personal evolution. He discusses how these elements are integral to his performance, particularly in complex roles like those in White Lotus.

7. Commitment to Craft and Future Projects

Looking ahead, Goggins expresses his enthusiasm for upcoming projects and his dedication to the craft of storytelling. He remains committed to roles that challenge him and allow him to explore new dimensions of his acting:

[55:56] Walton Goggins: "I feel like I have to tell his story… This is one of them that I walked outside and called my wife."

Goggins anticipates his continued collaboration with acclaimed writers and directors, striving to contribute meaningfully to the narratives that resonate with audiences.

Conclusion

This episode of Armchair Expert offers a profound glimpse into Walton Goggins’s life, both personally and professionally. Through honest dialogue and insightful reflections, Goggins reveals the layers behind his acclaimed performances and the personal experiences that drive his dedication to acting. Dax Shepard’s engaging interviewing style, combined with Goggins’s vulnerability and honesty, makes this episode a must-listen for fans and those interested in the intricate journey of a celebrated actor.

Notable Quotes:

• [14:02] Walton Goggins: "I felt that it was so one-dimensional… I couldn’t perpetuate this stereotype."
• [28:32] Walton Goggins: "My wife is often the smartest person in any room I walk into… She makes me presuming the very best version of myself."
• [25:08] Walton Goggins: "I had to generate my own structure. It helped me. It served me my entire life."
• [55:56] Walton Goggins: "I feel like I have to tell his story… This is one of them that I walked outside and called my wife."

These quotes encapsulate Goggins's commitment to authenticity, personal growth, and the influence of meaningful relationships on his career.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondri in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Leslie Stahl.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

She comes up occasionally. Back in the old days she would pop up a lot.

[Monica Padman]

That is high praise.

[Dax Shepard]

Very high praise. I love Leslie Stahl.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, she's great.

[Dax Shepard]

She's a firecracker. Okay. Long time coming. Number one current obsession as an actor going on three years now, probably Walton Goggins. Walton Goggins goggle glasses. Uncle Baby Billy's Bible. Bonkers. This guy's an alliteration wet dream.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I love Walton Goggins.

[Monica Padman]

I mean he's an incredible actor, but he was also a beautiful person.

[Dax Shepard]

Such an interesting, colorful person. There should be award for just best across the board actor. It's not on a single project and it's just, it's like best dramatic, best comedy, whatever. There's just best actor and I think Walton would be the shoe in.

[Monica Padman]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Because there's nobody doing comedy better and there's nobody doing drama better. Fallout Justified. Righteous Gemstones. Vice principals, the Hateful eight. He stole the Hateful Eight, which is hard to do. That's a hell of a cast. Season three of the White Lotus. It wasn't enough he was in my favorite comedy show, Righteous Gemstone. Or that he was in my favorite action show, Fallout. Now he had to join my favorite dramedy, White Lotus.

[Monica Padman]

It's all the genres.

[Dax Shepard]

What a dick. Also, Walton Goggins goggle glasses. Learn more@goggins goggles.com you'll hear us in.

[Monica Padman]

The goggles at the top of the show.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we'll be fully. If you're watching, we're adorned in the goggles. Goggins goggle glasses.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we are.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now this is a big merch update.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, huge update.

[Dax Shepard]

So we were unable to do our own merch. We have to do our merch through Amazon Wondery. We have asked them if we can just do it while getting that sorted and we have a one month window where we've got a bunch of really cool, well thought out merch. You can go to www.armchair expert pod.com. bunch of cool designs. A lot of things that were on the limited edition sweatshirts are now making their way to T shirts with some.

[Monica Padman]

Additional designs and some sweats and it's a really cool little collection.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And this is not calculated into a pressure cooker. But it will be about a month long that we're allowed to do this.

[Monica Padman]

I mean there's a chance we might be able to continue it. We don't know yet.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Just letting you guys know it's up.

[Dax Shepard]

We know we have the month, so order now. There'll be a delay because we have to make it all and ship it. So if you need it overnight, that's.

[Monica Padman]

Probably not going to.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a pre sale. But go there and order all the stuff you want and then it'll get to you at some time. Go to www.get your merch, get your merch. Please enjoy Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. We are supported by Nordic Naturals. I love that name. Let's just start with the name. Nordic Naturals.

[Monica Padman]

Great name. I also love these products.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in love with them?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. I already went through an entire magnesium.

[Dax Shepard]

You did. You blasted through.

[Monica Padman]

Blasted through. And a vitamin C. Well, did you.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

And it functions, it's pretty, it's effective.

[Dax Shepard]

It'S efficient, and highly functional.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to get started, go to squarespace.comdax to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com Dax to get started today. He's an upchurcher. He's an observance.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, hey, whoa, wait a minute. Whoa. Is there a guest?

[Dax Shepard]

Go ahead.

[Walton Goggins]

I think we have the star of the show. I'm just the guest star.

[Dax Shepard]

Monty, you want to slide yours on? I put them there for you.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, I would.

[Dax Shepard]

I figured we could start in them.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

He brought you specifically. Blue, honey, sit on the couch for half a second. You're not even Mike, but pop your product. This can move product.

[Walton Goggins]

Pickleball, skydiving, Wear it on the boat. Scuba diving.

[Dax Shepard]

You ever cut onions in these bad boys?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, I've cut onions in them, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Way to cut onions. Very comfortable.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, they're comfortable.

[Dax Shepard]

This feels like we're having an interview on a chairlift on the way up the mountain.

[Monica Padman]

It does.

[Dax Shepard]

Which kind of happens. You know, you're sitting on that chairlift for minutes and minutes and you have been talking about some stuff.

[Monica Padman]

I feel like this is such a good product for you. You know how sometimes people have brands that you're like, I don't get the A to B. This is an A.

[Dax Shepard]

Why does Tom Cruise have lawn care equipment?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Walton Goggins]

It makes sense. But does he have lawn care? But does he?

[Monica Padman]

Does he?

[Dax Shepard]

The Top Gun Mower.

[Monica Padman]

Say the name out loud.

[Walton Goggins]

Walton Goggins. Goggle glasses.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, that's as close as you can get to Uncle Baby Billy's Bible bunkers.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, there's some similarities there.

[Dax Shepard]

Bit of a nod as well.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it's just a. No, Just a little thing. It worked out for Baby Billy. Maybe it'll work out for me. I'm a good athlete. I'm not a great athlete at all. But really, the thing that I got out of playing sports more than anything else was I just love the equipment, man. I just love putting on the football pads. I love the gloves. I mean, I love pep rallies. Let me ask. Wearing Them right now. Do you think that you would go for a pickleball shot that you might otherwise not go for since you have a strap on your head?

[Monica Padman]

Hunter P. I feel very cool in these, honey.

[Dax Shepard]

If you walk straight out of here and get in my Z wagon and Dr. Drive the stick shift like you're Mario fucking Andretti because of those, I won't be shocked at all.

[Monica Padman]

I've never driven a stick shift.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Walton Goggins]

We live 15 minutes from a ski resort where we are now in the Hudson Valley. This isn't like Aspen, Colorado, but it's got a vibe. It's a super cool place. And I drop my kid off at school and like any good dad, I'll.

[Dax Shepard]

Go skiing like most American dads.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, like 10 runs and then I'll have a beer.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, what a nice.

[Walton Goggins]

Sit outside and there's a fire pit kind of out there. And then go home and take a nap and sober up everyone, I promise. And go pick up my kid. But one particular day, I was just sitting out and it's cold and I got these goggles on, whatever the Oakley cool glasses are, just sitting there having a beer. I said, I never want to take these glasses off.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Walton Goggins]

Where are we all when it comes to reading glasses? Do you need them? Do you not need them? And go.

[Monica Padman]

A year and a half ago, my eyes died. Yeah, I don't know what happened, but it was overnight. And Now I'm at a 1, I guess is my prescription. I don't think they're very strong, but when my kids put them on, they make quite a bit of fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, they get a headache instantly.

[Monica Padman]

I do have to wear them a.

[Walton Goggins]

Lot with my wife, who's older than I am. Just a couple of years. Baby, I'm so sorry.

[Monica Padman]

Shout out.

[Walton Goggins]

I wasn't gonna say two years and two days. November 8th. She's a Scorpio. I won't say the year. Baby, you couldn't even see me wink, can you? Because you don't really know what's going on in my thoughts. But she said, it's coming for you. And I said, I don't think so. And then literally she said, it'll happen overnight. And it did. And then the next night, you know, blind laid down to read and blind.

[Dax Shepard]

Your representatives, your publicists. I bet in their best case scenario, they hoped we would talk about these glasses for 30 seconds. Yeah, I'm guessing when they're talking about it, they're like. I pray they bring them up and I hope they do 30 seconds on them. And we've done legit a good 15.

[Walton Goggins]

We've done 15 minutes on these things.

[Monica Padman]

It's time to talk about your life. I'll get out of your hair. You guys have fun.

[Walton Goggins]

It's so good to see you.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to tell you sincerely. 850 guests. She's asked to come meet, I think, four people. Where she said, what time are you recording? I'm going to make sure I'm not doing anything. I must meet this person. And you're one of four.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, we've worked together.

[Dax Shepard]

Oopsie.

[Walton Goggins]

Way to go, Dax. Fucking. Not only did we work together, so.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry, but Dax's point stands. People are in and out of this yard all the time. People that I know, people that I don't know, people that I respect, people that I'm fans of. And I've come in to say hi to maybe four or five people, and you were definitely one of them. How do you even say it? You're number one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have the evidence. I have on this show numerous times said, you are my number one number. So hard.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I gotta put these all down. I get, like, emotional.

[Dax Shepard]

They're great to mask public crying, too. We left that out. There isn't anyone I've ever seen that is apex drama and apex comedy the way you are. It seems impossible, to be honest, to go from Righteous to Fallout in one year. It's staggering.

[Monica Padman]

And the fact that you were in that disgusting mask on Fallout and every woman in America was still like, I want that sexy radiation cowboy in my bedroom once a week. You got the rhythm. We love you. I'm glad I got to see you.

[Walton Goggins]

It's really. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You don't really have the body of a beer drinker. When you said that, I was like, I don't buy it.

[Dax Shepard]

He's one of these guys, though. We're gonna get into it. He's one of these charms. Those are yours.

[Walton Goggins]

They're yours.

[Dax Shepard]

And yours look great as a hairband.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I love it as a hairband. Very exciting names.

[Walton Goggins]

And then we'll just kind of move on to something. El. The white ones are cumulonimbus, which is a cloud formation. Yes, they are. I think they're the coolest. It's like, fuck, he's rocking some white goggle glasses with a red, white and blue band.

[Monica Padman]

It's confidence.

[Walton Goggins]

It's very cool. And then we have a noir pair, a black pair called Mama Skillet, named after my mama's skillet.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. We're pinning Mama's Skillet.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. These are tortuga. You got to have a tortoise shell, man.

[Dax Shepard]

So what is the word tortuga? Where does it come from?

[Walton Goggins]

It. It means black and brown pattern.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. It's not like.

[Walton Goggins]

No, it's a turtle.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a type of turtle.

[Walton Goggins]

I think it's a turtle. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Spanish.

[Walton Goggins]

In Spanish.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Spanish.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes. And then we have limoncello.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh, that's.

[Walton Goggins]

Which is yellow. And then we have the color that you're wearing, which is, guess what? Blue.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. Decided to go real conventional for just one.

[Walton Goggins]

That's so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is comical, because if any color deserved a adjective before it, it would be blue. There's so many kinds. But you're. No, there's only one blue. And this is it.

[Monica Padman]

You're thinking differently.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, he's just questions. Okay, here we go.

[Dax Shepard]

We're going to get serious now.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Walton Goggins]

Let's get so serious. So.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you get it. I love you so much. I have been wanting this to happen for very, very long. And I was working with Rob Cordry for a period, who I adore, and then I found out you guys are close and you would vacation together in Europe, which sounds exactly what I'd imagine you do.

[Walton Goggins]

Hey. Always so elegant.

[Dax Shepard]

And maybe I want to jump to one thing to then come to where you're from, because I was watching an interview with you, and you were discussing having been offered Justified to be in the pilot. You were going to die in Justified, and that was going to be it. You read it and you turned it down twice. For a very specific reason. And I want you to tell me why. Because I really liked it.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm a huge Elmore Leonard fan, for one thing, but I felt that it was so one dimensional, and because I can afford not to do this anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

For much of your early career, all of us, we got to play what they offer us.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely. I mean, if you're Italian and you're from New York, chances are you're gonna shoot somebody. Yeah, absolutely. You're gonna be eating some fucking pasta.

[Dax Shepard]

You're eating some pasta. You're gonna dig a hole in the basket.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're gonna smile while you're doing it.

[Walton Goggins]

But we all look for boxes to kind of fit in when we're starting out. And it just so happened to be at that point in my life that I had gotten out of a number of those boxes, and this was one box that I just felt like, I can't perpetuate this stereotype and sell out my culture anymore. From an Outsider's perspective. Like a lot of different cultures in America, they're reducible to one impersonation. And it's like, okay, well, if I can speak a little like this, you know, when I come down here, I'm from the South. What does that even fucking mean? I mean, the south represents a third of this country. Each region and each state and each part of every state is very unique. Like the state of New York. The state of New York isn't just New Yorkers. I live in the state of New York now.

[Dax Shepard]

Two dramatically different cultures, actually. You live in dramatically.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Manhattan and Hudson Valley.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right. But it just felt like I was at a place in my life where I just was unwilling to do that.

[Dax Shepard]

To participate in the perpetuation of this.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And I think everybody, you know, at some point, whenever you can kind of step out, you don't need the money morally. You just don't think that it's right. And you don't want to feel shame whenever you're visiting those places that you're just another part of the problem. This is where the conversation ends. And I wanted it to be where the conversation began. And so on the third conversation we had after I had turned it down twice, and I say that I'm not proud of it. There's no ego involved in that whatsoever. Because I'm such a huge fan of Tim Oliphant and Michael Dinner, who was directing it and wrote a good bit of it. But Graham Yost, who wrote the pilot on the third time, I said, okay, I'll do it. Two things. I'm the smartest person in the room. Always after I say this very long speech in the pilot.

[Dax Shepard]

It was kind of crazy racist rant.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right. That you say this one line which is. I know you don't believe half the things that you're saying. You just need an audience. I just needed a version of that line for him to see through that. Which is true.

[Dax Shepard]

It's crazy having watched it not knowing that story and how important that weird detail was because it also built this rapport with you two, which makes it so much more compelling. You have a past and that little line that you were wanting, wanting to not perpetuate ends up also being this other layer.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, it also allows the audience to kind of come into the experience. No one has tolerance for intolerance. Really. I don't. It just gave the audience the opportunity to experience this person and really to go forward. I asked for those things. Not with a six year contract. This Was just the pilot and die will do this thing and just give me that, and then I can sleep better at night.

[Dax Shepard]

And, you know, he was so fucking incredible. After they tested it, every single person like, well, no, no, he can't die.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It just adds a third dimension to a person.

[Dax Shepard]

We had a guest that so beautifully articulated this. Do you know the author Barbara Kingsolver, by chance, she wrote the Pulitzer Prize winning book last year, Demon Copperhead.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

The most beautiful book. I read it. My whole family's from Kentucky. She said in that book she was trying to explain how it feels to be in the south and especially in Appalachia. She described it as is. We're in the bathroom stall in high school. We hear the popular kids making fun of us. We get these TV shows, we get these songs. We can hear you. It's so fucking offensive and hurtful and you don't even care. I just had a whole renewed compassion for one of the great stereotypes that.

[Walton Goggins]

Kind of persists in some ways. I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but it's permissible in urban culture, certainly on both coasts.

[Dax Shepard]

It's low hanging fruit. It's always there.

[Walton Goggins]

You can always go to it and you can always get a laugh from your constituents. And they're part of it. They're also in the audience.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hurtful. So you were born in Birmingham, Alabama, but you grew up in Georgia, where Monica grew up as well.

[Monica Padman]

I'm from Georgia.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

I know you're talking about Kentucky, but I'm from Georgia.

[Walton Goggins]

A little peach.

[Monica Padman]

That's right, A little peach.

[Walton Goggins]

Atl.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Duluth. Where in Georgia?

[Walton Goggins]

We lived in a fucking trailer in Birmingham, Alabama. First year of my life. My mom's sisters lived, I think it was like, I don't know, five or six people. My parents got divorced pretty early. What, three, maybe two and a half. But my earliest memories are with my mom in Decatur, Georgia, which is right downtown.

[Monica Padman]

It's very cool now.

[Walton Goggins]

There's so many great places in Atlanta now, like so many cities in America, had this whole new generation just kind of come in and give me some third wave coffee and fucking. Some great sourdough bread. What's coming next? Ooh, Mediterranean food, fantastic.

[Dax Shepard]

But Lithia. Do you know Lithia?

[Walton Goggins]

Lithia Springs. We moved out, which is west side. My mom and I lived in Decatur three years. One of my earliest memories, I couldn't have been more than four. I have a lot of memories from that house that we lived in this duplex. But one is One of the scariest memories of my childhood, of my life, really. My mom's bedroom was in the front. My bedroom was in the back. She's a young woman. She was a beautiful woman. She had a super cool boyfriend. And I slept in my bed alone.

[Dax Shepard]

You were only child at that point.

[Walton Goggins]

Only child. And I went to sleep. My little twin bed was right up against the wall. My upper torso was next to the wall. From my knees down was in front of a window. Just as I was about to fall asleep, there was a light in the backyard, and I had whatever. The fucking house came with these shades that were kind of pulled down, an opaque shade so you could see through it. And just as I was falling asleep, I saw someone crawl in front of my window because there was a roof right outside of it was two stories. I don't know if it was a man or a woman. I have no idea.

[Dax Shepard]

I think we can assume it's a.

[Monica Padman]

Man if I'm betting on this or a woman escaping.

[Walton Goggins]

It was a man. He was on his knees, and he was just sitting there, like, perfectly outlined in my window, his whole body. And I couldn't scream.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

And he had his hands on the window, and he was trying to see if it would open. And then eventually he just went past the window. And as soon as he was out of sight, I got my voice back and I started screaming.

[Dax Shepard]

Did Mom's boyfriend run to the scene?

[Walton Goggins]

I don't know if he was there that night. That's kind of the end of that memory, really. I remember my mom coming in or something, but it was terrifying. And then we moved out to Lithia Springs when I was five years old, and we found an 1850s farmhouse, and it was two bedrooms. You had to walk through my room to get to the bathroom. And it was fucking cold in the winter. It was like, well, I'm going to go to sleep this glass of water on the edge of my bed, and I know I'm going to wake up and it's going to be frozen.

[Monica Padman]

Yay.

[Walton Goggins]

Look, there's no more water in my glass.

[Dax Shepard]

Mama, get me out of here.

[Walton Goggins]

What the wrong with us?

[Dax Shepard]

Were there stepdads in the mix?

[Walton Goggins]

I did not have a stepdad. My mom never got remarried, but she had some boyfriends, and I loved all of them. You did? Some of them were a little hard, and a couple of them were younger than they probably should have been.

[Dax Shepard]

Good for her.

[Walton Goggins]

So hot.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. We need a picture of your mom.

[Dax Shepard]

My mom?

[Walton Goggins]

She's so cool. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Who do you get your swagger from. Because I have been lucky enough to see photos of your dad and Monica. I can't wait to describe his father to you. But you showed some pictures on Seth Meyers of him. He is a one of a fucking kind.

[Walton Goggins]

He texted me a photo yesterday. Dad, if you ever see this. I can't believe you made this fucking coffee mug. But it was a picture of me in these glasses. A part of the campaign. And he made himself a coffee mug. He's a narcissist, my dad. Yeah, yeah. Clinical, sure. He knows it, don't you, dad?

[Monica Padman]

He's listening to me.

[Walton Goggins]

This thing, when he said, congratulations, and he loves me and I love him. It has this logo fucking all over the bottom of it. And then at the top that's facing out, where people would be seeing it, is a picture of me in these glasses. And underneath it, in big letters, there is no him without me.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what it says on the mug.

[Walton Goggins]

On the fucking mug, man. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Perfect. I could almost guess that caption. My father and I wonder if you this. As I got famous, he loved telling people I wanted to take in how proud he was of me. And he was deeply proud of me. But I couldn't trust that it wasn't maybe more about him getting attention.

[Walton Goggins]

Of course, man.

[Monica Padman]

You're an extension of him.

[Dax Shepard]

Which makes more sense now that I have kids. You're right. There is a very tiny line between you. But can you relate to that?

[Walton Goggins]

I had a lifetime of that. We're not the only people that have had this kind of experience. My father was married six times, but one was annulled.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, well, we'll still count it.

[Monica Padman]

I'm gonna count that. Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

A shotgun kind of annulment. The running joke, kind of, in my household was inevitably, everybody has a bumper sticker that says, honk if you've ever been married to Sandy Goggins. Fucking who hasn't he married? But my mom never remarried. She had some wonderful men come through, and then we had a cast of characters in my life. It was kind of this way station for people. My mom was the most sane of her three sisters who were and are insane clinically. But it was really colorful. And I was raised kind of by real Steel Magnolias.

[Dax Shepard]

You got to meet characters. It sounds like not only did I.

[Walton Goggins]

Get to meet them, they fucking lived with us.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they raised you.

[Dax Shepard]

Upon reflection, though, are you grateful for it?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, I'm so grateful for it. Whenever you would meet someone, even someone who was relatively authentic, even Someone who was just a farmer across the street, Kermit and his wife. Everyone in my life was eccentric. I mean, except for the Hearst family. My neighbors Holly and David were my best friends, and Ken and Carol were like my mom and dad. They actually fed me regularly. They had a bed that I could always sleep in, and they would actually take me to practice, but they would also pick me up.

[Dax Shepard]

They were dependable.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, they were about as good as Americans can get. They were just wonderful people. But God damn, I'm glad that I wasn't raised solely by them. I just absolutely love lunatics. Yes, I love crazy people, but just enough crazy. I don't see enough people seeking out those conversations or taking the time with people like that. Am I wrong about that?

[Monica Padman]

You think people dismiss, I think that.

[Walton Goggins]

Eccentricity if the conversation can't be had in about three minutes. If you're only checking one of the 10 boxes required for me to have a conversation, I'm not fucking having it. Right. I mean, because people are busy and there's a phone. Do you think that's true or no?

[Monica Padman]

Gosh. I think it's complicated because I also think because of social media, people also lean deeply into their eccentricity, almost in an inauthentic way, in a performative way. It's performative. So authenticity has gotten very complicated and public and confusing.

[Walton Goggins]

And you are interfacing with people that have either real or faux eccentricities and you are engaging with them in that platform. I didn't even think about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, also, you can get that itch scratch, which is you can go watch someone that's batshit nuts on Instagram. Whereas when we were kids, Kristen will hear me say this all the time. Is like we're at an airport and I just lock on to somebody and I'll say out loud, gotta find out what this guy's up to, and I'll go check. People catch my eye all the time, and I'm, like, dying to find out what's cracking, what's going on outside of this airport. What kind of kid were you in school?

[Walton Goggins]

I was alone a lot as a kid. Single mom, babysitters, houses. I felt like I spent most of my life waiting to be picked up. At times I felt like an inconvenience, even though that wasn't their intention. I remember seeing the Bridges of Madison county, county and Burbank whenever that movie came out in the early 90s. And then calling my mom from a payphone in the lobby, walking out, apologizing for being bored. But not just like so sorry I held you back from doing some of these things. And she still had a fucking great life.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it sounds like it's cause I'm younger suitors.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. But she was like, no, son, you are the gift. You are it. But at the time I didn't feel that in school. I think I was popular, kind. I think I could charm people. I always felt different. I always knew that I'm not going to be here fore. I had a lot of friends. My senior superlative, even though I didn't win it. But I was the first runner up for most friendliest. I thought it would be best dressed. They took that out that year because poor kids, they don't have the same opportunity.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm poor motherfucker. But I figured it out.

[Walton Goggins]

But I figured it out. I got a job. I worked at riches.

[Dax Shepard]

Two dollar scarf with this $3 shirt.

[Walton Goggins]

You see this shit? I bought this shit. But I was a great student.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no kidding.

[Walton Goggins]

I had no structure in my life. I don't think I slept in the same bed for more than seven days straight until like 15. So I had to generate my own structure. It helped me. It served me my entire life because okay, well, I got to work harder than everybody in this room.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it makes you a self starter because no one's going to start it for you.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right. I remember writing a poem. That was the class assignment. And so I picked it about divorce, you know, I came to turn it in and she gave it back to me. It was like an F. Whoa. I said, I'm so sorry. I think this is pretty good. And she said, it's great, but you didn't write it. And I said, what?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so it's the ultimate compliment.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it's like, yes, I did. I'm like that guy. It's from my heart.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I just showed you my. You just shit on it.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Call me a fraud.

[Walton Goggins]

And then my mom kind of came to school, said, no, no, no, it was him. It all worked out.

[Dax Shepard]

I've never wanted to read a poem in my entire life until right now. I'm dying to read it.

[Monica Padman]

Do you know it? Do you know it by heart?

[Walton Goggins]

No. I remember a couple raps I wrote in high school. We'll get to that later.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So you went to Southern Georgia University for a year and a half.

[Monica Padman]

Georgia Southern, Georgia Southern.

[Walton Goggins]

Did you go to.

[Monica Padman]

I went to Georgia.

[Walton Goggins]

You went to uga?

[Monica Padman]

I did go to Georgia.

[Dax Shepard]

She too was a great student.

[Walton Goggins]

You're from Georgia, man.

[Monica Padman]

I know I am. I sure am. We got in a big fight because I went to the Texas game with Dax in Austin.

[Walton Goggins]

Are you a big Texas?

[Monica Padman]

No, he's not.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm a big Austin fan.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I'm a big Austin fan. That's a great city.

[Monica Padman]

Well, they were playing Georgia, and I.

[Dax Shepard]

Refused, and we were the guests.

[Monica Padman]

We were guests of some Texas McConaughey.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, yeah, dude.

[Dax Shepard]

Fucking religion. We gotta hook em.

[Monica Padman]

No, we don't.

[Walton Goggins]

You wear, like, a Georgia hat.

[Monica Padman]

I wore a bulldog shirt and a red sweater.

[Walton Goggins]

Were you on the field?

[Monica Padman]

No, we were in the. But surrounded by a bunch of orange, and I was like, absolutely not.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She was so mad that I wanted the Longhorn swing. It put our friendship to the test.

[Monica Padman]

It really did.

[Dax Shepard]

We barely navigated that one.

[Walton Goggins]

We don't have to talk about it now, but I want to know the history of this friendship.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, it's an odd pairing.

[Dax Shepard]

We're best friends. We fight nonstop. We think about the world so differently. So often it works big time.

[Monica Padman]

Circling back a little bit, I do think we are very volatile, and I think that's somewhat of a result. His upbringing and potentially mine. And we were talking about chaos and relationships. Do you seek that out? I think we subconsciously seek it out.

[Walton Goggins]

You mean conflict with each other or do you think in your own lives.

[Monica Padman]

Like, if I'm being honest, I think that's part of the draw. There's something always that could blow up.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, that's right. And part of the attraction to this?

[Monica Padman]

I think so, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I crave novelty. I crave a challenge. I crave being engaged. And because she's so smart and has such a strong point of view, and it's so often different from mine, it's very ripe for very engaged, very heartfelt debate. And we love each other, so we would like to have the same opinion. So the stakes are high.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Now that makes for a great show. It's been going on for seven years.

[Walton Goggins]

Going on a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

We have to really navigate it quite often, but I think that's the best kind of relationship.

[Walton Goggins]

I agree with you.

[Dax Shepard]

I could never be with a fan. I have friends. I know people who are very successful, and then they get a very beautiful person who's just along for the ride and they're a fan. I would be so bored out of my mind. My wife is hard as a. Yeah. Super smart, super talented, very driven, very ambitious. Going to get her way. I need that.

[Walton Goggins]

I have that in my life. My wife is more often than not the smartest person in any room that I walk in, for sure. She's a intellectual baller. She understands the world in a very nuanced, complex way and is able to walk with kings. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you got to have your straight before you enter into a fray with her. Like, she makes you presuming the very best version of yourself.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, I mean, I don't know. Or the worst version, too. And the thing that I say often is I'm Zen 99% of the time. And she says, well, it's the 1% where you should be fucking Zen, man. You know, it's the 1% when you're challenged to that place, and that's your lesson. I said, or maybe it's fucking not my lesson, but that's kind of that thing. I mean, I think I'm cool. I'm cool. I'm cool to. Hey, man, fuck you. I'm not cool. That level of volatility is present in my work, and maybe you feel that way in your work, and that is the same with my wife and all of my friends. I look for that in other people.

[Dax Shepard]

I need 10% crazy in the mix.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

And Monica's 26% crazy, and I'm 35% crazy, so.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I would go up a little bit on that.

[Walton Goggins]

Is Kristen crazy?

[Dax Shepard]

That's a great question.

[Monica Padman]

Less and less.

[Dax Shepard]

Less and less and less.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Both of us, by the way, have gotten way milder. It can exist so much easier. It's 17 years. You're 19 years.

[Walton Goggins]

20. I've been married for that long. Long. But we met on a blind date 20 years ago, January 11th.

[Dax Shepard]

The volume comes down on a lot of stuff.

[Walton Goggins]

It has. And we've gone through a lot, and like every relationship, ups and downs and peaks and valleys. But there's this thing that has eluded us for so long, and we see it coming. It's like, oh, I fucking know exactly how this is going to go down, and I don't want to. Okay, let's step off this train right now. There's an off ramp right here, man. You could just turn around. Oh, she's not letting you leave. Oh, you're not letting her.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, hey, you know what?

[Dax Shepard]

Now we're due.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm out, man. The little switch flips of here.

[Dax Shepard]

And a little burst of euphoria comes. We go, oh, I'm gonna burn the house down. Here we go.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's a little bit intoxicating.

[Walton Goggins]

It is intoxicating. But, you know, who in my family doesn't have Any of that is our child. He is so calm and so wise and so measured and extremely passionate. A deep, deep, deep thinker.

[Dax Shepard]

What could be more fun?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, here's the limb I wanted to go out on.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, let's go out.

[Dax Shepard]

But I was just curious, given the similar background, is it hard for you when someone's in a bad mood? Like, my things with my wife are generally. And I have this with Monica, too. I have this with everyone in my life. If someone's in a really bad mood, I have this unreasonable desire there to fix that for them and to regulate them. And if I can't do it, I'm very uncomfortable.

[Walton Goggins]

Right. Because you spend a lifetime doing that, regulating kind of other people's.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that was my guess. I'm wondering, single mom. It's like, normally dad would be in charge of that. If mom's got an emotional issue, she.

[Walton Goggins]

Never fit that box. Right. She never fit that stereotype. Smoked a lot of weed. Had a really good time. Very passionate woman. Loved to have sex.

[Dax Shepard]

Mine too. My mom's an admitted love addict.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, absolutely. And started studying Paramsa Yogananda and Joel Goldsmith and the Urantia and the I Am. And went on this spiritual journey. Started when I was about 10 or 11 years old and had me reading all of those texts. So much so that I just kind of missed out on the classics because I felt like it was a waste of time. If you weren't doing something that was expanding kind of your consciousness, then why would you do it? I didn't realize until I was in a car with some friends that I had made in la. When I first moved out here, coming back from San Diego and hearing these people talk about him and Way and Somerset mom and Faulkner and, you know, they had the opportunity to be in school. They had a college education. And hearing them cross reference these authors and how it was applicable to cinema or a song that they were listening to. And I just was in the backseat, wasn't saying anything. I was just listening to all of this. And I just thought, I want that kind of in my life to circle back to what you said. I had to please a lot of people. I had to please my father. I wasn't around him that much, but when I was, I desperately had to do that. That's not our problem. Early in my life, my problem was profound insecurity based on poverty and not having those things to the point where in high school or middle school, girlfriend's parents were coming to pick me up and I would give them an address that wasn't my address. And right before they were supposed to get me, I said, okay, Mom, I gotta go. My mom had no structure, no boundaries. No boundaries whatsoever. My mom. Mom was like, I trust you. And so I would just slip out of the house and I would go to Ken and Carol's house with the nicer home and just hide in the ditch or out by their bushes and I would see the headlights kind of pulling and I would just run out in the driveway and it's like, okay. And then the lights would come on and this is that your. I was like, ah, they're fine. Bye, Mom.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by All State. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know to check your sunroof first before driving through the car wash. Like, you know to put the leash on your dog first before you open the door to go for a walk. Not that I've ever made that mistake and had my dog run outside without me or scream his name repeatedly over and over and over again until I found him. Or, you know, to check that the guy who asked you out is an armchair first before you agree to go on a date with him. Sage advice essential Checking first is smart, so check all State first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US Only. Savings vary Terms apply Allstate Fire & Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates, Northbrook, IL we are supported by the Allnew Galaxy S25 Ultra from Samsung. This phone is a true AI companion that evolves with you to do more for you, like handling multiple tasks with just one ask. For example, you can tell it to find a restaurant nearby and text it to my friends. Or look up my favorite basketball team schedule and add it to my calendar. And it does it just like that. You just speak the request naturally and the new Galaxy S25 Ultra takes care of the rest. Okay, this is what AI was meant for. That is seamless plus. Now brief with Galaxy AI gives you personalized daily briefings that keep you a step ahead. It'll show you your appointments, the weather, your energy, score and more all in one place, ready to let AI do more for you so you can do you then get your Galaxy S25 Ultra now at samsung.compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy. Now Brief with Galaxy AI displays daily select information from select apps may require Internet connection. Galaxy AI features by Samsung free through 2025 and require Samsung account login. We are supported by Skims. You know, I was just in my Skims tank top last night taking a.

[Monica Padman]

Little snooze, wasn't it? So cozy. Everything is so soft and so comfortable and so cute. You know, I have a bunch of their products I've, I've acquired over the years and I love them all. All for different occasions. The bras are really something special because it's really hard to find a good comfortable bra that's also chic and they have a really good one. The Fits Everybody T shirt bra. It really does fit everybody. I have gifted this and big hit. It's a big hit and I wear.

[Dax Shepard]

The tank tops when I go to sleep. I couldn't be happier. Shop Skims Best intimates including Fits Everybody collection and [e-mail] and skim stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop down menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gift for your valentine or for yourself, Skims just launched their best Valentine shop ever. Available in sizes for women, men, kids and even pets. Poverty is humiliating when you're young like that.

[Walton Goggins]

You just don't fit in. We never filled up our gas tank ever. I never remember my mom or an aunt or one of these crazy people I was with. No one had the money to put more than like three to five bucks in your gas tank. And so I had a lot of that. It's like a chip on your shoulder, but it's not. And then you allow for judging until he gets to a certain point and then you react to that judging. It's like, well, wait a minute, I'm just as good as you. I had a lot of that shit early on, especially in relationships. I was left a lot like a lot of people, abandonment issues and just thinking, everyone leaves, everyone's going to leave. So please don't love me or love me and please don't let me go. Yeah, I think that's a journey for a lot of people in my own journey, in my own spiritual walk, which is a part of this whole experience of the White Lotus. Falling in love with yourself. God damn. If you can get to that point where you're okay with you, even though once you find it, it will very quickly disappear.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's transient.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely. And once you have that realization and once you have a degree of Self love. At least this is what my experience was. That also came with real boundaries. I've gotten better about. This is no man's land right now. We're okay, but this is not okay with me. And I'm not poor anymore. But I don't think that ever fully leaves you.

[Dax Shepard]

I wrestle a lot with. I hated rich people. If there were a bad guy in the world, it was rich people because I felt less than around them. I didn't like how I fel. It's not at their fault. I now know that. But, you know, I had this chip on my shoulder and then trying to come to terms with the reality of, oh, I'm one of those people that's a little discombobulating and there's shame around that.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You feel survivor's guilt. It's complicated.

[Walton Goggins]

The thing that I had and something you kind of brought up earlier and experiencing it in the back of this car came up from San Diego. My envy wasn't around the acquisition of things. Even though I just wish we had some things. Heat, you know what I mean? Like. Like these are just bare minimum.

[Monica Padman]

The water would stay.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes. I wish we had some yogurt.

[Dax Shepard]

Wish I didn't have to cut off half of this block of cheese to get to the good cheese.

[Walton Goggins]

That's exactly right. But it was time to think. I was jealous and envious of these people. Went to college and they were in college, even though they worked or whatever, but they had an opportunity to just sit and learn or read and then go talk about things that they had just learned. I never had this space to do that. I would have been good at it. I left school after a year and a half.

[Monica Padman]

We do forget. We take for granted that going to school and being able to be there and think critically is a privilege.

[Walton Goggins]

It is a privilege.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We just do it. We think we have to do it. We go. We try to get through it. And it should be rethought of just.

[Walton Goggins]

Like a daily reminder of this is a privilege. It's not a right. And what do you do with the time that you have at microphone? What is it that you want to say? While I didn't have that in college, I have been able to, even without money, give myself those opportunities through travel and being alone, giving myself permission to be on the road for a very long period of time. Understanding culture. I've talked about this in other interviews, so this isn't revelatory. But in addition to that, I feel that way about work. I feel that way about the Time I am now afforded to give myself, myself to live in my imagination in preparation to start a job and to stay in that world over the course of telling that story. So I feel like I have that now. Like, that's my education. That's time to ask those existential questions or listen to that music this person would listen to or watch those movies.

[Dax Shepard]

That are applicable to just experience your imagination.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dax Shepard]

You have time and space.

[Walton Goggins]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Fucking indulge this part of your brain that's so special.

[Walton Goggins]

And I don't take that for granted.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm with you. Yeah. I'm never interested in why someone wanted to become an actor, but with you, I am. How do we go from that tiny town in a year and a half in college? When do you go, oh, I'm going to be a performer?

[Walton Goggins]

I feel like I was always a performer. I was raised around some very performative people. Interesting, funny people. They were great storytellers.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. If you're going to take up time at the dinner table, it better fucking land.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And even if you couldn't, because there were five stories going at once. Do you know what I mean? But more often than not, people would pass the baton in my household. And it wasn't a lot of talking over each other. It was depending on the level of inebriation, how fucking short or how long the story is. These were very eccentric people. When it was my turn to talk, you know, like little Walt, it was the great love of the women and my family. I knew that that, again, was a privilege and not a right to be given the microphone around this group of really great stories, storytellers. And I would tell my storytelling. I think that was always kind of a part of it, but I really kind of stumbled into it.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, when you moved to la, did you move here specifically to try to act?

[Walton Goggins]

I did. I wanted a great experience. I got an American Express in college my freshman year. As soon as I got there, God damn, I got mail. Who knows I'm going to school here?

[Dax Shepard]

How do you guys know it's happening?

[Walton Goggins]

I got a mailbox and it was four or five pieces of mail. And first thing that I opened was an offer to join American Express. And with this offer, in 1989 were two round trip tickets for $99 east of the Mississippi or $199 west of the Mississippi.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Walton Goggins]

Plane tickets were like $1,000 from Atlanta to fucking Los Angeles, 1989. I mean, they were not cheap. And I just saw it and I thought this experience is over. I want to do my year in the school. I'm never going to spend a dollar on this card. I'll just have it and then I'm going to use both of these vouchers. And it's exactly what I did a year later.

[Monica Padman]

And who went. Went with you?

[Walton Goggins]

Nobody. Oh, I went on my own.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you had two vouchers?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. Oh, because I had two.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I didn't.

[Walton Goggins]

No, no. I used both of them. My dad came with me when I drove across country because he wanted to.

[Dax Shepard]

Get his eyes on the big.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Big city.

[Dax Shepard]

I wish you could have seen this photo. His dad is adorned head to toe in black leather, turquoise on every single finger. He has photos of himself. People do ask him for photos everywhere he goes. He's a very interesting person. He's visiting Walton in New York and people are asking for photos and he's. Oh, well, I have one signed. He has signed photos of himself. He has signed photos of Walton that he has signed.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my. You need to make a mug with his picture of that. And it needs to say, there's no this without me. Because that's all so true.

[Walton Goggins]

And that's the end of the interview.

[Dax Shepard]

Tit for tat. Yeah, the ride, really. So I'm going to blow through a couple because I want to get to three things. Things.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

The Shield is the first. From the outside, seems like you're now in the big leagues. You have a steady paycheck. You're one of the season regulars. Is that the big.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I think so. I moved here when I was 19. I had $300 in my pocket and I lived the way that I lived and worked how I worked. And then what gave me permission not to feel like I needed to work anymore, even though I did for a little while afterwards was the Apostle with Robert Duvall.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Walton Goggins]

And that was the. Wow. Okay. That's my hero. And so that was really. Even though I was working, I think I made $21,000 over three months for the next Karate Kid. For me, that was a lot of money.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, clearly, yeah. From 19 to 30, you are. When you get on the shield.

[Walton Goggins]

29. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

29.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You make it work. You're on Beverly Hills 90210.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I did a fair amount of films, but then I felt like Shanghai Noon was going to be the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I had a pretty big role in Bourne Identity that ultimately they decided to go with Gabriel man instead. And they just offered me another thing people didn't know what the fuck to do me. No one was paying attention. And I had some extraordinary experiences on location over that first 10 years. And then the shield happened. Yeah. When I was 29. And nobody knew that it was going.

[Dax Shepard]

To be what it became, 86 episodes or something?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, 86. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So I think this is so fascinating. You had auditioned for Eastbound and Down and you didn't get it.

[Walton Goggins]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

And the feedback was David Gordon Green.

[Walton Goggins]

Who'S a friend of mine from the independent film circuit. I just called and said, you know, Danny absolutely loves you, but just, it might be a little too dangerous for what we're doing.

[Monica Padman]

Little too chaotic.

[Walton Goggins]

Not even chaotic. It's just a little scary. I said to Danny, look, man, I think you need somebody to go toe.

[Dax Shepard]

To toe with you.

[Walton Goggins]

You know what I mean? Something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we have some friends in common. Leslie Bibb actually had a New Year's Eve party, and Danny and David were there, and I was there. She's one of my best friends with Sam then that was kind of the beginning of a conversation.

[Dax Shepard]

I remember watching an interview with Todd Phillips and I thought he said the coolest thing. He said, you know, for me, comedy that is good, has to be very dangerous. Oh, it's not comedy to me. If you, like, look at his work, you're like, oh, yeah, it's kind of high stakes. Everything's a little scary. You look at, you know, the hangover. Any of these, they go wild when they're going to jump a van. They're going to jump a fucking van.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are real stakes.

[Dax Shepard]

So then you get to come in and do vice principals.

[Walton Goggins]

They offered it. I was doing the Hateful Eight. We were in Colorado, and I read it and he talked about it at this party. And I read it and thought, okay, this I know what to do with. And so I just kind of did that. And it was three lines into it where I think he was like, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You'Re outrageously good in that. I couldn't believe the story of Hateful Eight. And if you would just indulge me and Monica, I think the audition for Hateful Eight is one of my favorite audition stories I've heard.

[Walton Goggins]

If it's the story that I think you're talking about, that was for Django.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Duh. But you get.

[Walton Goggins]

Which led to. Yeah, the Hateful Eight.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm sorry. That's easy.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's easy. I can't believe. Believe. You know what? You fucking know Honestly.

[Dax Shepard]

But it starts with the call to Rodriguez.

[Walton Goggins]

I get this script like everybody else in town, and I read it on the plane to New York and staying with a friend, and it's one of the best things I've ever read in my life. He's only made nine, you know, so it's the repeat cast. It's the golden ticket. It's a very small group of people. I just feel that way about Mike White and the White Lotus. There are a number of filmmakers that have that stable of actors, and if you can kind of get in that. Christopher Guest. I mean, unbelievable. But Quentin is probably by far the most in my book. But I read it, and it's like, I don't have to get this. I just want to fucking read these words in front of this man. And so I called Robert Rodriguez, who's a friend of mine, and they're obviously really good friends. And I said, man, I've never asked you for anything. Could you please text Quentin for me and just say that I have this guy, like, to read? Ten minutes later, he texted back the text from Quentin, which was, I love Goggins. I love his work. You know? And it was like, fuck. Okay, well, then that's.

[Monica Padman]

Did you print it out and frame it?

[Walton Goggins]

Unbelievable.

[Dax Shepard]

That's enough. It's more than I wanted.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. We could ever expect, right? It's always nice to live your life as if you should be surprised if anyone has seen any fucking thing you've done.

[Dax Shepard]

But to be seen by a hero just feels really crazy.

[Monica Padman]

And then liked.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, that's true.

[Monica Padman]

Not to see. Liked and appreciated.

[Walton Goggins]

And then it just happened to coincide with. A really good friend of Quentin's was one of my wife's dear friends, and she called and she said, I just read the script, and you gotta be in this movie, man. You're in this movie.

[Dax Shepard]

You're one of these guys.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And she said, let's have a dinner with Quentin. I'm the guy that's like, no, no, no, I don't want to do that. I don't ask anyone. I'm not that gross guy, out of his dinner, talk about everything but the script until the very end. And I said, I think this is what you're saying and how I felt. A thousand people have probably said. He said, well, I want you to come in and just pick a few roles. And so I did. Started kind of reading them, and there it was. And he was like, that's fucking great, man. I'll be speaking to you. And I said, well, I'm not leaving. I said, well, I didn't come here just to read. Read these three roles. I don't give a fuck if I get this job, man. I just want to read your words in front of you. I want to read all of these roles.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to read Leo. I want to read Sam, Kurt Russell.

[Walton Goggins]

It's like, I just want to read this shit. He's like, really? And he said, okay, let's do it. And then he read everyone else in the scenes.

[Monica Padman]

You did the whole movie?

[Walton Goggins]

Basically, we worked for like an hour, hour and a half. We did a lot. How fucking big seminal scenes. Just the unadulterated enthusiasm and love for what he puts out in the world and his words. And at the end of it, it was like, fucking really good to see. Can't wait for the next time.

[Dax Shepard]

This will cross my mind on my deathbed. Thank you.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you, man.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, how cool.

[Walton Goggins]

And then, yeah, you get the call. A couple of months went by. It's like, okay, buddy, come down to New Orleans and play with us.

[Monica Padman]

What if you're like, I can't. I don't want it. I just came to just do that one thing. I don't really want to be in the movie.

[Dax Shepard]

It was top what happened.

[Walton Goggins]

But thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

I imagine you deal with this. The characters are so fucking different. I may have seen Vice principals, but if I don't follow show business, I don't realize that's the guy from hateful8. They're so different. And if I fell in love with Uncle Baby Billy, I'm not putting that together with the shield. It's almost probably a bit of an Achilles, which is. I think you deserve to be the biggest star in the world. But I think the work is so unique and different. I don't know. People are connecting the dots because now I'm a hyper fan and I didn't even think, oh, right, I got to go and watch. I went and watched Justified. I had never seen it, but I'm like, I'll go up for Goggins. God damn, he's great in that again. But I watch hateful8 a couple months months ago in a sea of the most talented people. That's the performance in the movie. It's incredible. I can't believe you went from a smaller role in Django and then got called to the big leagues and did what you did in that movie is fucking nuts, dude.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God, it's so impressive. I'm so happy for you. That you got to go into Tarantino's world and have him trust you with that much. And then to score touchdown after touchdown.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, look, maybe you feel this way. A lot of people in this business and outside of this business listen to your podcast, and I think for so many of us kind of coming up, I mean, we're from a different generation, but the barriers to entry, the gatekeepers to this experience, it's like every day, you're not even trying to fucking get to Base Camp one on Mount Everest. You're just trying to get up that Nepal to the airport hill that you're going to fall down.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Walton Goggins]

You're just running in a flight of the airport, Nepal.

[Dax Shepard]

At that point, it's as far as you could have gone. If you feel like I do about Tarantino, that's exactly how I feel.

[Walton Goggins]

But whenever you see someone that's been around for a long time, like Rockwell or Crude Up, I mean, even Garrett Dillahunt, all of these fucking people that have been around for a really long time, and we've been around for a long time, and you just see consistently good work over a long time, and it's like, oh, wow. I mean, Pedro Pascal's been doing great work for such a long time. And it's like, wow, okay, there's one for the good guys. Yes. There is no limit on their staying power.

[Dax Shepard]

They're inoculated by talent and wisdom and choices.

[Walton Goggins]

And so the guys I'm also a fan of, I won't name any names, but we know them. The people that, if you were an envious person, which I'm really not, accept other people's careers. I really don't look in other lanes. But the people in my twenties, for a moment was like, I wish I could, you know, but I wouldn't trade my walk for, oh, those three years. And I think you probably wouldn't either. I've been walking the road that I've been walking for a very long time.

[Dax Shepard]

I would argue it's preferred.

[Walton Goggins]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

When you're young, if you come out and you drop right into the World Series, it's hard to appreciate, it's hard to conceptualize, it's hard to integrate, and it's hard to process. It's hard to stay and to kind of just keep walking in the back door and then you leave and you're like, who was that guy that was at. You know, it's so preferred for your life story, your own narrative self. It's such the way to do it.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. I think so. You don't. I don't remember this, but very first time I met you, it was nothing more of like a hey. But it was really just me across the room silently thinking like, you fuck this fucking guy.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Walton Goggins]

What is this True story? Because it was for an audition and it was just the two of us in this room and I walked in and I looked at you and you were sitting behind this desk and it was like a room with chairs. They had us kind of waiting in. Maybe it was a second call back or something, I don't know. But I walked in and was like, oh, this fucking guy. I just felt like it ain't my day.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know this well.

[Walton Goggins]

It was scared? No. Employee of the month.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Walton Goggins]

With Dane.

[Dax Shepard]

Dane.

[Walton Goggins]

And Dane came in. I don't know if you knew him. I don't remember. But there was some interaction that it was just like this easy. Oh, these guys.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that is so funny.

[Dax Shepard]

To believe the story.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't remember where it was was. But I remember the room and I remember where you were sitting. No way. And then seeing the movie kind of when it came out, I was like, wow, you know what? Yeah, it was his for sure.

[Monica Padman]

That's an ego boost for you. Should be.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And yeah, if I were you, I would hate me. No. Yes. Like what? This was on Punk when you kind.

[Walton Goggins]

Of walk in one and it's like, oh, well, you know what? I'm still going to have fun. And I did.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to see the version of the movie with you. I don't know, man. Oh, my God, that's crazy. That just blew my mind. Okay, last thing before White Lotus is of course Righteous Gemstones. Uncle Baby Billy.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, I see all your out of order. So I first saw Righteous and I was like, who the fuck is this guy putting Uncle Baby Billy and Chris. I just obsessed with the show. I'm writing emails to Danny, who I barely know, but I have to tell him after every episode. The piece. I'm like, did Scorsese fucking direct this pilot? This is a comedy. Look at these shots. We fall so in love with you. Well, he was in vice principals. We learned. We go back. I watch vice principals just because I'm now on my Walton Goggins train. And I'm like, oh, my God. And he's this and this. I don't really have a question.

[Walton Goggins]

We just finished the fourth season. It's really good. I can't tell you anything that it's about, but the first episode of season Four. And I'm gonna go on record saying this as a piece of writing. If I had read that in the Atlantic, I think the motherfucker would be nominated for a Pulitzer.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Walton Goggins]

You know, really what he's saying at this stage of his exploration in that world. And everybody obviously has a great arc and a great story, but baby Billy will have the summer 2025 fucking hit. I'm going to tell you right now, whatever your wearing right now, come June or whatever, when you're a bathing suit, you will be singing this song, I promise.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Walton Goggins]

Good, y'all.

[Monica Padman]

I can't wait.

[Walton Goggins]

And it says a lot about a lot. It's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess my one question about vice principals and Righteous is if you had to guess at a percentage, what percentage is you guys riffing? And what percentage is on the page? It feels impossibly organic.

[Walton Goggins]

98% is on the page.

[Dax Shepard]

No shit.

[Walton Goggins]

No shit.

[Monica Padman]

He's so brilliant.

[Dax Shepard]

That's some writing.

[Walton Goggins]

Edie Patterson.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She can let her rip.

[Walton Goggins]

Do fucking anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

Adam can fucking do that. Michaela Watkins can do that. Cordry. It's not my thing, but I understand where the story is and I understand. Okay, these are five or six tangents that I can go down. Turn yourself over to that and see kind of where that takes you. But he realized that about me very early on, that it's the words on the page that is liberating to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right.

[Walton Goggins]

And then we carried that into Righteous gemstones. I think I'll work with him for the rest of my life.

[Dax Shepard]

If there was a career to envy, it'd be yours because you're in the Tarantino stuff. But I would say of the television shows, my favorite comedy is definitely Righteous gemstones. I think my favorite big huge action thing is Fallout. I love that show.

[Walton Goggins]

Thanks, man.

[Dax Shepard]

And then my very favorite both of ours kind of social commentary, character y deliciousness is White Lotus. You're in the three show. My favorite. The two previous seasons have been so good. I think we all had so much anxiety when season two came around. Cuz I'm like, how on earth that hotel manager in season one, like, who's going to pick up that slack? And then it delivered.

[Monica Padman]

They did it.

[Dax Shepard]

His social commentary, what he's able to tackle, which I feel like you're not allowed to. And he does perfectly. Just the notion. Last season you had these two couples and these two cheat. They're shitty. And this is the good one. And then as you're playing with it, you're like, well, I'm not sure which one I'd rather be a part of.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, here's the perfect guy who says all the right things. Why isn't she horny for him? We got to deal with that. That's a real thing. It's so brave and awesome.

[Walton Goggins]

It is. And no one writes an existential crisis the way that he does. Wealth gives him permission, I think, to parody these people and to make them real simultaneously, because these situations do happen to people outside of this very specific economic kind of section of society that he explores. This is his work, not mine. If first season was about money, the second season was about sex. This season is about religion. It was everything that I had hoped it would be. And there are so many things that happen over the course of this experience that I'm not at liberty to really talk about.

[Dax Shepard]

Tough project to promote, actually.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it is with a lot of projects, but that one in particular, I think they do actually kill you. There's a body floating somewhere. But I felt like I had my own Apocalypse now, that I was Willard in a boat going upstream to meet Captain Kurtz, which was also me.

[Dax Shepard]

Because of the real life or the story?

[Walton Goggins]

Because of the story that I was telling.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it help that you're in Thailand for six months living at the actual hotel you're working in?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, living at the hotel. And sometimes the hotel was completely bought out, so it was just us. And then other times, you know, they weren't able to do that. So you're literally checking in as an actor next to guests that are actually there on vacation.

[Dax Shepard]

You're, like, peeking at the hotel pool, going like, oh, wow, that's that character.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's a weird fourth wall being broken, in a way.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. But I've seen two episodes, and it's really fucking good.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I cannot wait.

[Walton Goggins]

And it's similar, but it's different. And I can say that my journey in this world, it's something that hasn't been seen or explored by Mike in other seasons, but everyone just kills it.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it hard being there, though, for six months? No.

[Walton Goggins]

Fuck, yeah, man. I mean, I haven't been home 11 days this year. And in success, it becomes harder, you know? And that's the thing. I don't think people realize because you're.

[Dax Shepard]

Having to turn down now really great opportunities.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, I mean, you're just away from home for a long time. It's lonely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't think people anticipate that. It's like, oh, my God, I'm Getting all these opportunities, and it's incredible. But at the end of the day, you go back to a house or your hotel room and you're alone, which I'm good at. And if I'm having a problem with it, I know other people are. Everyone went through. Through their own crisis over the course.

[Monica Padman]

Of this experience, which is maybe helpful for the project.

[Walton Goggins]

It's a story that can induce that experience.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Walton Goggins]

Certainly for me, the way that I approach this way of storytelling, it was a fucking incredible experience. It had everything in it, soup to nuts. And I can't wait for you to see it. And I can't wait to hear what you think about when you do see it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. I'm so excited.

[Walton Goggins]

Maybe we'll come back on at the end of this thing when you get.

[Dax Shepard]

The call to join that cast.

[Walton Goggins]

It was interesting because they were doing season two, and I didn't know m. We had friends in common, like we all do at this point. And I remember my agent saying, well, you should write a letter to Mike. It's like, no, man, I ain't that guy. I ain't doing that. They didn't tell me that conversations were even happening or that it was getting close and then was out here. We were doing early press for Fallout and went out to dinner with my agents, which I hadn't seen in a while, and they said, listen, congratulations. I said, for what? And then they said, mike wants you to do White Lotus Season three. And I just started bawling, started shaking at the table, really, because I felt like it's a world I could help him tell his story.

[Dax Shepard]

For White, you really were.

[Walton Goggins]

I suppose I would have felt that way if any other show or movie you're excited about or filmmaker, but it's when you understand, like, Quentin, I felt like I know how to tell his story. I felt that way with Mike and a few of the filmmakers that I've gotten an opportunity to work with over the course of my career. This is one of them that I walked outside and called my wife.

[Monica Padman]

That's amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

My last question to land the plane is, I also follow you on Instagram. I also know Cordrey goes with you to, like, Greece or Italy. You guys will do a proper summer in another country. It seems like you're putting as much effort into your actual life being as artistic as your work life.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'd imagine some people might think that just happens, but I imagine you got to actually approach your life just like you do a. Wow.

[Walton Goggins]

Never had anyone say that. Yeah. I think that it's with intention. And so this just happens to be a very long stretch. We sold our home in Los Angeles and we moved across the country and we bit off maybe a little bit more than we could chew. And it's like, okay, I got to go to work. Even though I've never really done anything just for the money or that I'm not proud of or that I didn't want to do. But I got offered a movie right when the strikes were being talked about. I had this trip planned, and they said, we'll offer you this amount of money. And I said, thank you, but no thank you. And they said, okay, well, what about this amount of money? And I said, thank you, but no thank you. He said, what would it take? I said, there is no amount of money. I'm sorry. And your listeners or other actors may say, fuck that guy. You know what? I hadn't seen my kid in a long time, and I had seen my friends. And that fucking time with my kid, it means more to me than anything. We're going to do that again this year with intention. Whatever you can afford. My mom did it in Panama City Beach, Florida, in a fucking tent. That is time, and it's far too precious at this stage of the game. And it is something that you can never get back. And I have shame and remorse and regret. Regret about the time that I have been away like anyone does with their children. It's with intention. And we're gonna live the out of life. Strap yourself in, strap yourself up.

[Monica Padman]

Let's all end on this.

[Walton Goggins]

Strap in.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's strap in.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you so much, Godaddy Arrow.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, you got a Super bowl commercial. Let's just add that.

[Walton Goggins]

Hey, man, this is gonna come out after. Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Monica Padman]

Go back and Watch it on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

Goggles.

[Walton Goggins]

Goggles.

[Dax Shepard]

Super bowl commercial.

[Walton Goggins]

Well deserved, Godaddy Arrow.

[Dax Shepard]

And hopefully people will be watching the commercial. God, you look great.

[Monica Padman]

He looks so. Everyone looks cheap.

[Walton Goggins]

You know what? If you can imagine every day just feeling like apres ski, I love it.

[Monica Padman]

I'm gonna wear them out.

[Dax Shepard]

What I'm thinking, Monica, is our long standing debate about whether or not I could fly an airplane if the pilot went down.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

You with those goggles on, you think I could? I'm not sure who should be flying the airplane, you or me.

[Monica Padman]

That is quite the compliment.

[Walton Goggins]

You look like a professional in any field with those guys. Hey, you know, what an honor, man.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I'm so glad you're for us. Yeah, we've been trying to get you in for years.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you. You're so generous of yourselves and so giving of your time and such great listeners. And thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

What a pleasure, man. Just loving you from afar. So the fact that we're sitting together is such a blast for me. I adore you, Walton. This has been my blast. Thank you.

[Walton Goggins]

What a joy. Joy. What a joy.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Acorns. You know, investing's so important. If you can just commit, you know, you just tighten your belt a little bit, you'd be shocked at how it can grow and compound future.

[Monica Padman]

You will be happy.

[Dax Shepard]

Very delighted. Acorns is a financial wellness app that helps make it easy to start saving and investing for your future. And while we love experts here on the pod, you don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and join the 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Plus Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment offer [e-mail] that's a C O N S.comDAX to get your 20 bonus investment today paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] DAX we are supported by Quints. You know, Kristen's been ordering a ton from Quints.

[Monica Padman]

Quince is amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I told her, I go, you know, they're a sponsor. And she, she couldn't believe it. Being stylish and comfortable allows you to feel your best, making you ready to tackle anything that comes your way. That's where Quince comes in.

[Monica Padman]

I was just in the house and our friend Anna, she had borrowed a sweater from me. It's blue and it's from Quince. It's gorgeous and it fits so well. And when she was wearing it, I was like, I want it back.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Look for the positive positivity.

[Dax Shepard]

Whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or just working on yourself, it's time to form relationships that love you back. And if you're not sure what green flags you should look for, therapy can help you. You identify them, actively practice finding them, and even help you bring that green flag energy into your relationship with yourself. BetterHelp is fully online, which helps make therapy affordable and convenient. Serving over 5 million people worldwide. Access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comdax today to get 10% off off your first month. That's betterhelphe lp.comdax.

[Monica Padman]

He is an arm.

[Dax Shepard]

Care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the packs.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, look at our trophy.

[Dax Shepard]

Look at our trophy.

[Monica Padman]

That's a cool trophy. Very space age.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's meant to be hung.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It has this at the bottom. I guess it looks like a quotation above someone's head.

[Monica Padman]

It does.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm holding up a square armchair expert with ax Shepherd Spotify 500 million streams plaque. We were awarded gold status. I was gold status. I need to start this fact check by saying my most deepest thank you. I've never been my more grateful than last night. I was asked to be one of Bill's 10 or 11 stops on his book tour.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was at a live event. The Carmere. I don't know, some beautiful theater. Ooh, where in San Francisco.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry if you already said that.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I don't think I did. Okay, for the listener. I didn't say that. Okay. It's not. Not our show. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not handheld mics. I can't go out and ahead of time and warm everything up and then bring Bill out. There's like a whole thing. You know, it's their show.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And there'll be a video and another woman introduce us for a while, and then we sit down. I'm in the wrong side. Suffice to say, it just wasn't like one of our shows.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

So I guess they gave me not a ton. I'm not going to exaggerate. Maybe like 20% nerves.

[Monica Padman]

Of course it's different.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's like. I don't know if it's all people there to see Bill Gates, and they're learning who I am and they don't understand I'm gonna have a sense of humor, whatever. All this to say. Soon as we sat down, I said, are there any arm cherries here? And Moni, the whole place was arm cherries.

[Walton Goggins]

Aww.

[Monica Padman]

That's so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

And I immediately felt so comfortable and confident and relaxed.

[Monica Padman]

That's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was so grateful. I couldn't believe how grateful I was. I was like, fucking armchairs. Show up.

[Monica Padman]

They really do show up. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you know, I had my whole family.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Your original family.

[Dax Shepard]

The of.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. Your sister, your brother and your mom.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. The original crew. The original four. Yeah, the Fab four.

[Monica Padman]

Was that lovely?

[Dax Shepard]

It was lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they got to meet Bill for a while. While.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And my brother has been obsessed with Bill since he was a kid.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Because my brother is very into computers.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't know that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, how special.

[Dax Shepard]

Obsessed with Bill Gates his whole life.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Even when I was talking to him before the event, I was saying, like, oh, my God, you got to read the book. It's so funny. There are so many funny stories in this book about him being 13 and showing up places with a brief case and business suits on and making products, and the whole thing is so. It sounds like a cartoon.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was like, oh, yeah. My favorite thing is that his mom said, what are you doing in here in his bedroom? And he said, I'm thinking you should try it. And my brother just knew all this stuff I had just learned in the book that he somehow had already known. Anywho, they got to chat for quite a long time, and it was a very special experience for my brother.

[Monica Padman]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

And, yeah, it was sweet. And then yesterday we gave it to San Francisco, straight up the hiney. We. In four hours, we saw that whole city market.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

We saw Alcatraz. We saw the Golden Gate Bridge, the Bay Bridge. We went through Chinatown. We went through North Beach. We went to Lombard Street. We got on the trolley and rode the full loop of the trolley, hanging out the Monica.

[Monica Padman]

So is that something you do with your original family? Because I don't think you do that with your family.

[Dax Shepard]

No. My brother had never been to San Francisco, shockingly. But so, yeah, seeing Alcatraz and all that stuff. The Golden Gate Bridge is all very exciting. Trolley Rice a Roni. The San Francisco tree.

[Monica Padman]

Full house. Ding, ding, ding. Olsen's.

[Dax Shepard]

Lombard Street. Do you know Lombard Street?

[Monica Padman]

I've heard. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the one that's really twisty, that goes down the extreme. Extremely steep. And when my brother and I were children, there was a show called you'd can't do this on television. No, that's Nickelodeon. It was called that's Incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh.

[Dax Shepard]

Doug Demokis, the wheelie king. Rode a dirt bike, a wheelie, down Lombard Street.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Never putting it down. Rode over cars on a wheelie.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that sounds bad.

[Dax Shepard]

It was a very memorable seminal moment on television for us. And so to be on Lumbar, where our hero, Doug Demokis had done the. That sweet wheelie. And then some arm cherries were in a 1960s VW microbus coming down Lombard street and started hollering out the window.

[Monica Padman]

Sometimes people shout out the window in their arm cherries.

[Dax Shepard]

This happens.

[Monica Padman]

And I just want to say to anyone who does that to me, it just happened a few times.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Don't think I'm a bitch if you.

[Dax Shepard]

Get shook a little bit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Or my first reaction is like, really twist eye rolly. Not. I really like. Don't.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't hurt me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, don't hurt me. Don't hurt me.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't hurt me, please.

[Monica Padman]

I look scared and angry. That's just my reaction.

[Dax Shepard]

But then you let. You let it in.

[Monica Padman]

But then they say, like, I'm listening or I listen or I'm whatever. And then I. I stopped listening. I don't like it anymore. What happened? Should have never done video. Yeah. Recently a guy did that. He honked and then he. I looked over with a mean face. And then he pointed. He was listening at that moment. He, like, raised the volume. Oh, that was exciting. But I got scared. When you thought.

[Dax Shepard]

When you just pointed, it looked like he was pointing at his crotch, but it was obvious. It was the.

[Monica Padman]

An armchair would never do That I know he wouldn't.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm saying it was clear that he was pointing to his stereo.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. Because when you just did it, it wasn't clear.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. All okay. Anyway, so go on, continue in Lombard.

[Dax Shepard]

Street, Chinatown, Italy, Alcatraz. That fucking trolley made us so happy. The cable card. Because that's really classic. I just said the cable card. The cable card.

[Monica Padman]

It didn't read.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, I just think it's nuts. There's a cable running under the street.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

That they put in in 1870.

[Monica Padman]

Still going.

[Dax Shepard]

Going in a circle. Also had some great meals.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh.

[Dax Shepard]

Really great meals.

[Monica Padman]

San Francisco has great cuisine.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my goodness. In fact, one of these places, if you're there, I insist you go. Called Cavalier. It's done up. It's a bar, restaurant, tavern. And it's done as an English hunting lodge. And the decor was. Decor really works for me, for everyone.

[Monica Padman]

It does work for everyone. Right. Aesthetics are important. I guess I should admit something really gross.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Distasteful.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Just bad. But since we are honest here.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

When you. When you started your fact check about wanting to say thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I thought you were saying thank you to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I can thank you as well.

[Monica Padman]

Because I thought where the story was.

[Dax Shepard]

Going was that it's so much easier together.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I mean, that's true. That's totally true. Should have said that. I'm sad I didn't say that.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I always walk out with you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I mean, if we eat a big turd together, it'll be together.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I thought maybe that's what was coming. And then I thought, oh, it's not. Maybe it's a different. Thank you. Also to me, because guess what, guess.

[Dax Shepard]

What was the second reason? I'll probably agree with it too.

[Monica Padman]

Because you were gone. And you, as you said, you took your sweet sister who runs this household. Keeps it in check.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And Kristen was at a table read yesterday. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I think it came out. Yeah. It's been announced for the show. Yeah. Season two.

[Dax Shepard]

A bill inquired about it.

[Monica Padman]

Cuz he's a dad.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a dad. I tried to explain that to him. He didn't understand that. Why that. That's why he liked it.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard to explain that to people. But anyway, he. So she was at Tipper. So she was at Fox. She was far away. And Anna was with her.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And Lincoln had a tummy ache.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no. So did you have to Rescue her.

[Monica Padman]

So I went to pick her up.

[Dax Shepard]

Was that your first time at that school?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And isn't it beautiful? First of all, it's beautiful. We won't say what it is.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Even though you probably already have on here.

[Dax Shepard]

I have.

[Monica Padman]

It's beautiful. But I was lost.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

It's, like, big.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like a mini ucla.

[Monica Padman]

There's a campus. And I was lost. And I kept having to ask, like.

[Dax Shepard]

Teens, they're so confident. So I think the first thing is you're like, wow, this is a really pretty campus. That quickly pales in comparison to how palpable the confidence is of all those gals running around.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, they're.

[Dax Shepard]

They're on. They're living out loud.

[Monica Padman]

But, yeah. So I kept having to ask all these teens. One teen really was like, the middle school's over there. Like, she was bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Middle school. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, I'm cool. Like, I have a podcast. Do you listen. Listen to podcasts? I must have stopped three different people, and I could not figure it out. But I. I eventually. Eventually.

[Dax Shepard]

I never got her.

[Monica Padman]

She's still there.

[Dax Shepard]

Did she get home?

[Monica Padman]

And then, you know, she picked me up or she grabbed.

[Dax Shepard]

Swung by on her motorcycle and grabbed me because I was lost.

[Monica Padman]

But it was so cute. And she said, oh, I thought you would be in San Francisco or whatever. I thought you'd. I thought you'd be with dad. And I said, oh, no, it's just dad. And he. She was like, he. He kicked you out?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Oh, Jesus.

[Monica Padman]

And I said, no, that's not really how it works.

[Dax Shepard]

No benefit of the doubt there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She went straight to. I kicked you out.

[Monica Padman]

She did. I said, yeah, you should punch him. I didn't want to tell her that her appendix might explode. And that's what was. Go. Mid. Maybe going on.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, sure. That was your first, though.

[Monica Padman]

That was my instinct. So I stuck around in case it didn't explode.

[Dax Shepard]

It didn't. It didn't she have a poop? And then feeling.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't ask.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'll find out tonight. Okay, my friend.

[Monica Padman]

First question involved about the poops.

[Dax Shepard]

You get that thing out. You get it. I have one really special moment before the show. They said, we want to do a viral video with them. And I was like, of course. So we played this game.

[Monica Padman]

Heads up.

[Dax Shepard]

And then what's funny is it was tests on things from the book, but they put in Catcher in the Rye, which wasn't in the book.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But he said something, and then I got it. I was. It Was on my head.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he goes, was that on the book? And I go, I don't think that was in the book. Is that one of your favorite books? And he goes, oh, yeah. And I go, oh, it's my absolute favorite book. And then we're like, we talk for two seconds. And I go, is that why you named your daughter Phoebe? And he goes, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cute.

[Dax Shepard]

And I go, I. From the second I read that book, I was like, if I have a daughter, it's going to be Phoebe. And it felt very connected. I really liked it. I had had the same exact wow. Kadems. And I had that bonding moment too. I think a handful of men have named their daughters Phoebe because they fell in love with that character.

[Monica Padman]

You know you didn't do that, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Is that not my firstborn's name?

[Monica Padman]

So sorry to tell you.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe.

[Monica Padman]

So sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, that's because we thought we were having a boy, if you recall.

[Monica Padman]

Sure. Now you know you have another Delta.

[Dax Shepard]

Could have ended up being a fe.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. She would have been such a good Phoebe.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, she would have.

[Monica Padman]

That name. Really would have her.

[Dax Shepard]

It would. Although Delta really works pretty good for her. Of course. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I can't im. Yeah. Maybe if I have one, I'll name it Phoebe.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a ding ding, ding. People have been pointing out in the comments that my new over indexing is delta.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is 100% true.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Not Delta. My daughter.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

The distance between two things. The gap. Yeah. Yeah. When I talk about. I'll say delta and people are really noticing it. And I. Guilty as charged.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I love it. It's very. It's very efficient.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

Instead of saying the difference between or a gap between.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, actually. Yeah, I guess you do do that.

[Dax Shepard]

I do it a lot. Yeah. I really got it from Formula one. They. They. They use Delta a lot in Formula one. What did you do while I was gone? Other than get lost?

[Monica Padman]

Lincoln's on campus. There's just something about being in school.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I like it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I went to In N Out this weekend.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You got animal style fries and a. And a what?

[Monica Padman]

And I got. No, I got.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm gonna blow my nose.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry.

[Monica Padman]

That's okay. Have you blown today?

[Dax Shepard]

I've lost some progress.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, all right.

[Dax Shepard]

It hasn't returned to the insanity, but it's also okay.

[Monica Padman]

Did you slip up on your trip with blowing?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Hotel room.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I bring tissues over to the bed every night to have them ready. And then when they're there, then I kind of got to use them. But I can't risk that I will make it without blowing my nose and have to get up. It's. There's a lot of stuff to consider.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Did anything else interesting happen? This. Oh, my God. Super Bowl.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, D. Crazy. What was your favorite commercial?

[Monica Padman]

The Nike women's commercial.

[Dax Shepard]

That was awesome. I love playing Led Zeppelin.

[Monica Padman]

I bought the shirt.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God. That was very cool commercial. That was probably the best. But, man, I love Willem Dafoe.

[Monica Padman]

I do. I do, too. I mean, he's Catherine O'Hara.

[Dax Shepard]

I know.

[Monica Padman]

That was a good pairing, but he's just the pod. Go check out his episode.

[Dax Shepard]

He's so unique. What a gift. He is.

[Monica Padman]

He is a blessing. Love him. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I loved that he's a plastic.

[Monica Padman]

He is. Yeah. That was good.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like in a Wes Anderson movie, even if he's in a commercial.

[Monica Padman]

That was great. I couldn't hear. Hear all of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I didn't see most of them. I started at an hour and a half late.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you did?

[Dax Shepard]

I did.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And then fast forwarded through everything to catch up.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Not needing to catch up, as it turned out, because nothing changed.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But the only thing I cared about really, really delivered, which was the halftime show.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, the halftime show.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I loved it. But I definitely thought his mic was too low. I was having the hardest time hear hearing him, like, the first four songs.

[Monica Padman]

Well, we couldn't hear, but it was.

[Dax Shepard]

It was a bad mix.

[Monica Padman]

It was the TV. No, because when I watched it on YouTube, I could hear everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You should watch it on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder if on YouTube they cleaned that up.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, maybe.

[Dax Shepard]

But on the broadcast, I was like, his vocals need to be way up.

[Monica Padman]

Barely hearing the words on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I thought it was so good and so well done and so smart as he is, all of those things. I don't know. I just thought it was so powerful. I loved it. And there's all these, like, hid. I love hidden things.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. What were some of the. The hidey clues? What was in there?

[Monica Padman]

Well, did you realize you probably. These probably aren't clues. They're probably obvious. But Stage was a PlayStation because the whole thing is like, the game. He's like, playing this game with Drake. Also, when Samuel Jackson is out there, it's kind of.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought he was incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Uncle Sam.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my go. He was so incred. That's. That's a hard lift. He's got to pop in and out. Perfect timing.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Finish before he's got to start. That was complicated.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was great.

[Monica Padman]

He was perfect, but, yeah, he was.

[Dax Shepard]

Almost more Kendall Kar than Kendrick Lamar.

[Monica Padman]

No, don't say cut that.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. No.

[Dax Shepard]

Sam Jackson's like, the original Kendrick Lamar. Well, I'm sure that's why he was there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He, of course, is iconic, but they.

[Dax Shepard]

Have the same vibe and spirit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, but the. Just the message.

[Dax Shepard]

No tap dancing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We're not playing this game. Yeah. That was great, Serena.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't. You didn't see that? You have to rewatch this. Serena Williams.

[Dax Shepard]

She sang.

[Monica Padman]

She came out and was dancing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I didn't see that.

[Monica Padman]

You got you.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought you were saying the female singer was Serena.

[Monica Padman]

No, that's. She's huge.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, I don't think. I think you got close, but I. I don't think it's.

[Monica Padman]

I know what I'm talking about.

[Walton Goggins]

You do know.

[Dax Shepard]

You know more than I do. For sure. I didn't see Serena crib.

[Monica Padman]

Definitely need to rewatch. It's.

[Dax Shepard]

I had it very loud, and I got. I got goosebumps. Many times.

[Monica Padman]

Several times when it's the American flag and he's standing in the middle of it and they're all. All of the dancers in the arena management are black.

[Dax Shepard]

Huh.

[Monica Padman]

Just so powerful. It really was. I love him. I. He. I want him to come on this show so badly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Me too. I had to get brought up to speed by Tim Lovestead about the beef. About the beef.

[Monica Padman]

I. I try. I told you a little bit about the beef.

[Dax Shepard]

I know about the pedophile part.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I know about the lawsuits.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't. I didn't know that he called Drake a colonizer. I didn't know that whole aspect.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And that Drake had called him, accused him of making slave music. Did you know that part?

[Monica Padman]

No, but I know Drake, so I guess there was this huge, like.

[Dax Shepard]

And Drake is rich.

[Monica Padman]

I heard Drake is rich.

[Dax Shepard]

Drake was, like, grew up rich. I heard.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. He's from Canada. You know. You know, Drake is.

[Dax Shepard]

I have zero opinion on Drake. I just want to say that out loud. I have zero, zero feelings.

[Monica Padman]

I have zero feelings about Drake. Except apparently. And there's a daily on this. Oh, there is. Okay. Drake likes these beefs. Like, he starts them. It's part of.

[Dax Shepard]

They're good for business.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But this one really got out from her. Huh. And Kendrick isn't really ever the type to get involved in these types of things. He's kind of like. Which Drake also calls out.

[Dax Shepard]

He's involved with this.

[Monica Padman]

Think you're. So a few beefs. Kendrick.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's also in a beef with Andrew Schultz. Oh, did you not see that?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

And Andrew did not at all kowtow. He just went straight to war with them.

[Monica Padman]

What is that?

[Dax Shepard]

You'll. We'll have to watch all the videos. He has a line about don't let a white comedian make fun of our women or something. And then. And so. And it's believed that he's referencing Andrew. And Andrew then comes out and says he's just not terribly worried about Kendrick. And. Oh, you. Then he. His. His attack back is like, oh, here's the dude you've supported who have raped women and who have beaten women. I don't think I'm your dude. So that was his pushback. And yeah. Got saucy. Well, I thought, boy, Andrew, you're pissing off.

[Monica Padman]

That's so stupid of him.

[Dax Shepard]

Very, very die hard fan base. But yeah, he's got at least those two going. But back to Drake.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, okay. But in the hip hop world. Yeah, he doesn't really do this because he kind of is. Drake says it too. Like, you put your. You think you're so great. You think you're this like, poet.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Which is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Any who. Drake is rich and very popular and like, you know, blends. He's not. Straight up. Straight up hip pop.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

More poppy mix. Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Club music.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So people think he's a phony.

[Dax Shepard]

I found myself with that tension of loving a good you song and then knowing the better part of myself doesn't like this.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, me too. But I. In this case, I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

You went for it. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm getting charged up by this.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And obviously that's not my aim in life is to like be pumped when someone else is telling another person to off me either, effectively.

[Monica Padman]

Well, the pro. Okay, I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Unless there's a huge class distinction, of course, then I do enjoy it. But regardless.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I am with you. I don't like enjoy a beef diss track or a beef. I've never. I've never been into a beef before.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. This is your first beef.

[Monica Padman]

This is my first. My first foray into the world of beefs. But now that I listen to the Daily and I know how many. So it was like this big weekend, I guess, where they were like back and forth. They were. They kept putting out songs in retaliation to one another at the end, in the audience after the halftime show, it says game over.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Because he won.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And, you know, he did win that song. That. His diss track won five Grammys.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Like, sorry, I feel bad. I actually do feel kind of bad for Drake. But he did start it.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't even know he started it.

[Monica Padman]

According to the Daily.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, all right. I'm nervous. I don't want to be on either side of a.

[Monica Padman]

Why? Because I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't ever want to. I don't want to join a team when the half the other people hate the team. I don't. I don't want to be on a team that's hated by half of people. It's not my desire in life. I know if I care deeply about this feud between Drake and Kendrick. Yeah, I might. But I. I don't care at all. These are both very rich, talented dudes. I don't think there's an oppressed vers.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think. Yeah. I mean, they did come from very different backgrounds. Like, I don't. It'd be like, you who came from a certain background, you probably feel like you have more of an entitlement to talk about that and rap.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

About that. Than somebody who didn't experience it.

[Dax Shepard]

But again, I don't even know enough about Drake. Is he rapping about the hood?

[Monica Padman]

He raps about bling.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Oh. Since we're talking about pop culture, which we rarely do, and I to, for whatever reason, be allergic to. Do you know the Kanye thing?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So step one was arriving at the Grammys uninvited with the wife who was then naked. Okay. That was event number one. And then he had a. He paid for his own super bowl commercial. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Which directed people to go to his.

[Dax Shepard]

To go to yeezy.com.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And if you went to yeezy.com, there was a single item for sale, and it was a shirt with a swastika on it.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, this is. Is absolutely mad. As conceivable.

[Monica Padman]

This horrible.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm dying to know.

[Monica Padman]

Is so bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm dying to hear his thought process. I'm just dying to understand how he got himself to a point where he paid for a Super bowl commercial.

[Monica Padman]

It's Jewish people. He says it. It's not. We don't have to read through the lines. The fact that that's not illegal. I don't like. I don't. Although now I guess there's talk about the NFL maybe suing him, because when he did the Commercial that wasn't up. He had real items on his site until the next day he changed it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I guess there is some conversation about him being sued for that. But I, I, I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

It's what I want to know.

[Monica Padman]

Embarrassing.

[Dax Shepard]

What I want to know, to be clear, is the same thing I wanted to talk to Roseanne about. He knows this is a very damaging move. I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know what it's like.

[Dax Shepard]

Passing a point of no return.

[Monica Padman]

It's been like that, though. He keeps doing stuff like this.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, they're escalating in severity. He wasn't previously, to my knowledge, selling swastika shirts.

[Monica Padman]

No, but he was, he was saying, oh, openly he hates Jewish people.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's like, he's getting close to being a neo Nazi. He's a neo. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Right. He's 100%.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a black neo Nazi.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, he is.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, how does a rational, at one time, seemingly savvy and rational person end up here other than just the obvious? Bipolar.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he is. He's bipolar. But yes, as I was reading something today, like, that's that for people who are like, well, he's just, he's bipolar, which he is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

95% of bipolar people don't, aren't hate filled. They're not using it to hurt people.

[Dax Shepard]

And, and if you found out Hitler was bipolar, you wouldn't go like, oh, that makes sense.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I have a whole theory I'm not entitled to have about Roseanne, which is, I think the racism aside, it was racist. I agree. Acknowledge it. But that's just one of many historic things she has done at the height of her popularity to really alienate everyone and test whether they love her. Like the, the famous.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's you. That, that's you deciding. And test what? Like, that's you being very introspective and saying you think it's because deep down she's testing whether.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think, like when she sang the national anthem intentionally poorly and annoyingly and she pissed everyone off and it's like the patriotism flared up and she's brilliant. So she's too smart to not know that wasn't a good move. So then I wonder, what story is she confirming by doing this thing? Like, well, how could she, as smart as she was, convince herself that I'm going to do this? And I think it's this. You don't believe all these people that love you, really love you, and then your brain comes up with this bizarre test of that, yeah, to find out, to confirm you're right basically that no one really loves you. They love this fake version of you they see on TV or hearing music. I have to believe that's going on with Kanye.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think so. I don't think so. I, I, I appreciate that you really give people and I don't think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt. But like I, I think, I think.

[Dax Shepard]

A bunch of things have gone terribly wrong in his life that he's the author of. No question.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He's, he creates chaos. And I think you and probably many people feel like there's a empathetic reason behind that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I just think there's a reason other than that Kanye west was born evil and now we're seeing it and he hid it for 40 years.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think and, but you don't think anyone's born evil and I don't either. But I think people become, I do think there are a, there are people in this world who become irredeemable. They become so, so driven to chaos and destruction and.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, and I'm not making an argument that he should be redeemed.

[Monica Padman]

No. I would hope.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, no, I'm not making an argument that people who have committed crime should not go sit in prison. But I am working with an assumption that some, something happened to them that now resulted in this. I think there are serial killers and I think there's narcissists and I think there's sociopaths who enjoy and there's, there are sadists who like to hurt things. I, I know those people exist.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I think a lot of non mental pathology people do really weird stuff that I'm quite curious why they would ruined their lives this, in this way. Like this is a person who's ruined their lives.

[Monica Padman]

Oh yeah. But over and over, like it's not, keeps doing it, he keeps causing harm.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it seem like a tragedy to you? Because it seems like a tragedy to me.

[Monica Padman]

It seems like a waste to me. But I don't, I don't think of it as a tragedy. I think what he's doing to people, I think causing this kind of fear and instability and across the board, even when he like goes up and steals a thing from Taylor, it's all, it's all, it's mean, it's bad. I'm also of the belief that a lot of that type specifically thrives off oxygen. And so I don't like, I don't really want to give him any ever. Like I I think he's disgusting and I, I, I, I don't want to talk about him really. I mean this is a fine conversation but you know, everyone's of course like posting about it and there was an another shirt made in retaliation which I think is awesome. That is what he wants. He wants chaos, he wants a reaction. He wants people to be scared and be angry. And I'm, I don't want to play right like bye. Just go away.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Macy's. Planning a winter getaway. Before you hit the slopes or chase the sun, make Macy's your first destination. At Macy's you'll find everything you need for your vacation at incredible prices. If you're planning a cold weather vacay, head to Macy's for great deals on coats, earmuffs, hats and gloves, boots and outdoor activewear from brands like the North Face, Ugg and Columbia. And if you're booking a sunny destination, Macy's is still the place to get everything you need. They've got stylish resort wear, shorts, dresses, sandals, swimwear and more from brands like Nike, Steve Madden and Levi's. I get my Levi's at Macy's. I just love Levi's. Head to Macy's to find all your travel must haves at affordable prices and spend your next vacation in style. Shop now@macy's.com or visit your local local Macy's store. Do you think he's sold any?

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. Well, it's gone now.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it is?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Shopify took it down.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Let's just say it's a historic public meltdown for the ages. I mean this is one of the most bizarre things, but.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but it's, it's not that bizarre because it's been such a long, he's been escalating to this for so long.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, there was a period where he was just writing incredible music a long time ago. Came up with some of the greatest Jay Z songs with him. There was some period where he was just a volcano of incredible creativity.

[Monica Padman]

He was. But we also don't know who he was back then.

[Dax Shepard]

No. When I watched the doc about him before he got really crazy, what I saw as a guy who had some very deep social challenges his whole life. I think he's very, very atypical as a person.

[Monica Padman]

I think so too.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what part of the problem is, I can admit I so can't relate to hating Jewish people. It seems like the dumbest thing to me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so it's so cuckoo that I wonder, how does one get themselves there?

[Monica Padman]

I hear you. And that's me too. I'm like, I don't even understand. Understand this.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

But 6 million of them were killed because someone didn't like them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

One person who created such a massive revolution that caught like 6 million of them were killed. So it's, it sounds cuckoo. And then that is also a huge history of it.

[Dax Shepard]

Even before they killed them, they weren't allowed to participate in most of the economy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think, like they've been very poorly treated for hundreds and hundreds of years.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. There's an underestimation of making a group the scapegoat of a problem.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And how really bad that can get.

[Dax Shepard]

When you have poor white people living in the same city with poor black people and poor Latinos. I. We see the lack of resources in the competition. That's definitely going to file into these in group. It's kind of. Of quite predictable. Like it's a bunch of people in scarcity blaming one another for their scarcity. Makes a lot of sense. I'm not even sure where you're interacting in that circle. Like, you're not thinking Jewish people have taken your jobs. You're not thinking like all these other things that perpetuate that kind of inner city poor stereotyping and racism.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's just like they're not going to jail a lot. There's nothing. I'm not even sure they're, you know.

[Monica Padman]

They control the media.

[Dax Shepard]

They.

[Monica Padman]

There's, there's narratives. I mean, they're ridiculous, but there are narratives that get built about. That's why I'm so allergic to any stereotype, whether it's good or bad. Because you don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Not the good ones.

[Monica Padman]

No. Because it's a. As soon as you start doing massive generalizations.

[Dax Shepard]

Indians have really great hair. No.

[Monica Padman]

Only me. Yeah. It's just, it's. It is. I mean, I've been not really paying on purpose too much attention to what has been going on in the world. It does feel a little irresponsible. Like I'm trying to figure out the line of complete ignoring and keeping my sanity. Yeah. I haven't really found it yet, so I'm. I'm sort of not partaking at all. But yeah, things make your way to you and it is scary. I mean, it's just that. Well, that. And then to circle back to a little bit is. Oh, my God, it's so crazy. He put this T shirt up. It's not that crazy because permission has been granted by our most elite in charge to say whatever the fuck you want to say. To do whatever the fuck you want to do. Elon is doing a Hail Hitler. That was at our United States inauguration. So, you know, I'm just saying, like it's not out of nowhere that someone crazy like that is going to feel like, well, now is the time. I can put my T shirt up. Okay. Well, speaking of stereotypes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Walton.

[Dax Shepard]

Walton Goggins.

[Monica Padman]

Shout out to Georgia Southern. A school nearby where I grew up.

[Dax Shepard]

How far? 60 miles.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you know, I don't know about.

[Dax Shepard]

Miles further because Atlanta is really in the middle. So if it's called Southern, I gotta. It's gotta be closer to Florida.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

It's in, it's in the Georgia, the Atlanta area.

[Monica Padman]

Well, it's in Georgia.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, but is it in southern Georgia?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Closer to Florida, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

I would imagine.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I. I've never thought of it as closer to Florida, but yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It'S to the south of you.

[Monica Padman]

Let's find out how far it is from my parents house.

[Dax Shepard]

Great.

[Monica Padman]

I'm going to use maps for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Good.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. It's three hours and 28 minutes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So for more than 60 miles. 150. 160.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's 231 miles.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa. That's very far from my parents. From your parents. So it must really be on that border.

[Monica Padman]

It's. It's here. It's here. And that's Savannah on the coast there.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's a bit east and south from Atlanta, but yeah, it's pretty close to Jacksonville.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah. Not too far.

[Dax Shepard]

Not too bad.

[Monica Padman]

Not too far.

[Dax Shepard]

You could be there for a lunch appointment if you had to.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Get some fresh oranges.

[Monica Padman]

I had a lot of friends who went there.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you guys. You guys would drive to Disney World, obviously, right? You're very close.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we would.

[Dax Shepard]

Or we.

[Monica Padman]

About six hours.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. The speed your father drove, it was eight hours.

[Monica Padman]

Let me put it in Disney World. Six hours 55 minutes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

472 miles.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I'm sure you guys had to stop. I know what it's like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we had to stop.

[Dax Shepard]

We couldn't go more than 60 damn miles this summer in Europe.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Tortuga. Yes. Spanish word for turtle.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's a great word.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

His earliest memories are in Decatur. My mom worked at Decatur Federal Bank. That was one of her first jobs.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. How long did she serve? I thank her for her service too.

[Monica Padman]

Me Too. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. An annulment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. How does an annulment work?

[Monica Padman]

Okay. An annulment is a legal ruling that ends a marriage by declaring it invalid. It makes the marriage null and void as if it never happened. Here are the criteria.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Fraud, if one spouse tricked the other into marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Coercion, if one spouse was forced into the marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Mental incapacity. That's really bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Hard to prove.

[Monica Padman]

Ding, ding, ding. Kanye's wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

They could get an annulment if one spouse was not mentally capable of marrying. Physical inability if one spouse is unable to. Kanye. Consummate the marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

This is interesting.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You were against this, and I was for this.

[Monica Padman]

I know I'm against it.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you can't. If someone marries you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And they can't perform sex with you, you needed to say that ahead of time. Because you can't just surprise someone and say, guess what? Sex won't be a part of this marriage. You can go, well, then that's obviously the understanding was there would be sex.

[Monica Padman]

But what if you are married, you're having sex.

[Dax Shepard]

Ye. And then it's been consummated.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It has been consummated.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, is consummate just the first time?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, so it's not like then in two months, so you get married in.

[Dax Shepard]

A year later, you still haven't had sex.

[Monica Padman]

Well, what if you have sex and then you stop being able to. Some men have that issue.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

So then can you annul after, like, a year?

[Dax Shepard]

It sounds like consummated is a very operative word.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So it sounds like never had sex.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, that's fair.

[Dax Shepard]

You need to tell someone up front.

[Monica Padman]

What if you don't know? What if you've had sex with other people and then for some reason with this person, you just can't.

[Dax Shepard]

You should get your marriage annulled and find a partner you can have sex with. That's my suggestion there for both parties.

[Monica Padman]

What about if fraud?

[Dax Shepard]

There was fraud. Fraud was listed in the divorce, in the annulment with Kenny Chesney, Renee Zellwinger and Renee Zellweger.

[Monica Padman]

But what happened?

[Dax Shepard]

I know. That's the great curiosity. What was fraudulent about what he was promising or her? I think she cited fraud. Oh. If memory serves me. Okay, this has been a very gossipy extra. Extra. Inside Hollywood Edition.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Incest. If the marriage between people who are too closely related by blood. I agree with that one.

[Dax Shepard]

Cousins, though.

[Monica Padman]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, you don't think cousins can get Married?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you don't. That one's very loosey goosey.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, we had an expert on that. Had a whole chapter about incest and has gone through the world and it's very rare for a culture to have forbid cousins to get married. It's very common at everywhere.

[Monica Padman]

No cousins. You mean like second and third and fourth?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want to marry any of my cousins.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

But I can also imagine never even meeting your cousin.

[Monica Padman]

I haven't met some of mine, but I don't want to marry them.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you met them in there? You meet them for the first time at 37.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're gorgeous.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's get married.

[Monica Padman]

Great. Meet me at the chapel.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

No, that's.

[Dax Shepard]

So this is a Jonathan.

[Monica Padman]

I think cyclops is.

[Dax Shepard]

No. So that's a little exaggerated. Not between siblings, but it still can.

[Monica Padman]

When it's too close it's not good. Yeah, but that's science.

[Dax Shepard]

This was a part of the book you can't remember. I want to say it might have been Paul Bloom. The last time I read his thing. I think it's. It's been a little exaggerated. The genetic risk of cousins. I'm not. I don't want to be with my cousins, but I don't. I don't think I care if other cousins are together.

[Monica Padman]

Really.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think I do. I have to make myself care. I don't.

[Monica Padman]

I guess. I guess people can do what they want.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean it's very common throughout the world.

[Monica Padman]

As you.

[Dax Shepard]

Someone's preferred.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. A lot of places it's preferred.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's not. Okay. Bigamy. If one spouse was already married to someone else, that feels okay. Bigamy is the only one we can come together on, you and I. Yeah. Well, no mental incapacity. Right. And physical.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we don't. And coercion. Well one, don't we. It's just consummation.

[Monica Padman]

Incest.

[Dax Shepard]

I.

[Monica Padman]

Well, consummation because. Oh, consummation is physical. Yeah, I know. I'm on the fence about that.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't believe you're on the fence about that. Why get married? Be friends. Friends.

[Monica Padman]

What if you're in? Because love is not just love is more than sex and friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Sexual love is romantic love. And you get married and then you have friendships that are loving and supportive. You could be roommates. That's great. But entering into the romantic bond of marriage with no attraction to the person or interest in it being sexual with them. I think thinks it's A deal breaker. It's a total deal breaker. No, hold on. I want to be very clear. If you're asexual, I honor that. And you said to the person, I'm asexual. I don't ever want to have sex.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. And that person's like, cool. I don't either. Go crazy.

[Monica Padman]

Right. But.

[Dax Shepard]

No, but you really need to declare that. That can't be a surprise.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, I want to pivot this a little bit. You put sexual love and romantic love in this. The same bucket. You. You call that the same bucket? Those are synonymous for you? Those are synonymous?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, is it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You think that's.

[Monica Padman]

I think there are three buckets. I think there's sexual attraction.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Romantic love and then friendship love.

[Dax Shepard]

Why would romantic love be different than the sexual bar? Because who would you be romantically in love with that you didn't want to have sex with? You would just be in friends. Love with them as a friend. No.

[Monica Padman]

Like, I think maybe this is gendered, but I think for a lot of women, not me, because I'm not married, but I could see this. I could see over time being less sexually. I mean, this happens in every marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

You become, like, less sexually attracted to your married marriage partner.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But you're still romantically in love with them. You love them a way. You don't love your friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. But you had a sexual relationship that has slowed down as opposed to you were never intending to have a sexual relationship and sex was never going to be part of this.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I'm just saying, to me, those are. They're three buckets. They're not like loving someone romantically or loving a partner.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

Apart from sex is a different kind of love. Love and care and. And then a love for a friend for me, for. You know. This is kind of interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think I'm. Either I want a romantic love with a woman or I want a friendship love with them. I. There's no third bucket for me. And considering love. L. Sure there's people I would love to have sex with that I would not want to hang out with, which is kind of gender, generally speaking. But. Yeah. There's no one that I would want a romantic relationship with that I wouldn't want to have sex with. Wouldn't happen.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Then they would just be a friend and I wouldn't marry them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You want to marry a friend.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

And have no sex.

[Monica Padman]

No. I.

[Dax Shepard]

No. And not justify an annulment if they ask for.

[Monica Padman]

I did not say that. I didn't say that. I just, I. I just think romantic love is different than sexual attraction. Obviously you want both in your, in your husband.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, romantic love is wanting to kiss the person's lips.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's the same thing as sexual attraction. But those aren't different things to me.

[Monica Padman]

But over time, like there's no one.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to kiss really bad, but then don't want to have sex with if I want to kiss them and I love them.

[Monica Padman]

But, but like over, over time in the m. Not to get too personal, but like every time you kiss Kristen, you want to have sex with her? Like. No. Like that's a, that it's. No.

[Dax Shepard]

But I would like to have sex with Kristen.

[Monica Padman]

Well, yeah, yeah. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And if I didn't want to have sex with her, that would be an issue.

[Monica Padman]

But if you didn't want to have sex, let's say like now, after so many years, you stopped really wanting to have sex with her, but you would still love her romantically in a way that is different than how you love.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I just, I think comparing something 20 years out and week one, no one's getting a marriage annulled after 20 years. I'm talking you marry someone is revealed to you. They have no intention to have a sexual relationship with you. I think you're definitely entitled to get out of that marriage.

[Monica Padman]

No problem. I mean, I guess I, I agree it's false advertising. Well, also, it's on you. Why haven't you, why, why haven't you asked about their sexual appetites before you married them?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think you have said, I can't wait to be married. I can't wait for our first night. I can't.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure. Fraud.

[Dax Shepard]

And then the person didn't go. There's not going to be a first night, just so you know. Because I don't want to have sex with you because I'm not romantically attracted to you.

[Monica Padman]

What if they want to? Really? They just can't.

[Dax Shepard]

Meaning they can get an erection.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, if you are not able to ever get an erection and have sex with your wife, then I think your wife's entitled to be with someone who can. I am sorry. It's already a bummer for you. It shouldn't also be a bummer for that person.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. What if a couple was waiting to have sex until they got married?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then they both were really horny? He could get it up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

She could get it in.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And. But then on the night of the wedding, his dick gets cut off by a stranger. Someone comes, a robber comes in and he starts attacking and the robber cuts his dick off and leaves.

[Dax Shepard]

It's still not fraud because you didn't false advertise.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You just. Someone cut your dick off. Yeah, that per. Someone cuts my dick off. I'm still going to put a lot of energy into making sure Kristen's still having lots of sex. Sexual experiences.

[Monica Padman]

But not sexual intercourse with my penis.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Because it's consummate.

[Dax Shepard]

It's gone.

[Monica Padman]

That's called consummate.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so it's on the actual day of the wedding. Yeah. I mean, that's quite complicated. And I don't know if we have a single case of that ever happening. Okay, well, but if that happened, that would be up to the gal to decide if she wanted to never have sex the rest of her life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Or if she decided she does want to have sex, then what arrangement could they work out where she could still have sex and they could still be married?

[Monica Padman]

Most men would allow her to.

[Dax Shepard]

No, most men are very jealous. Terrified.

[Monica Padman]

That's the thing. They would not allow her to go have sex.

[Dax Shepard]

I would for sure. I would almost insist on it. I would. She probably might even want to stop. Yeah, I know. It would probably be a thing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like you cannot, can't go your whole life. It's not your fault that my dick got cut off at the ceremony.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Little did you know, she hired that robber.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. Because she was asexual the whole time. Time.

[Monica Padman]

All right, that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

But again, someone asexual is going to be upset. I'm not judging you. I'm not talking about you two asexual people want to get married and have a non sex marriage or that's an.

[Monica Padman]

Asexual person with the sexual person. If that sexual person decides, it's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Good luck to them.

[Monica Padman]

That's up to them.

[Walton Goggins]

They get.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone gets to make their own.

[Dax Shepard]

But everyone's got to be honest.

[Monica Padman]

Unless it's incest.

[Dax Shepard]

Then you just got to be honest.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone has to be honest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're not honest, I think you're. You should be able to get out of that.

[Monica Padman]

Sure, I. I understand that. I also just think it's stupid. Like annulment to me isn't less than a divorce. Just get a divorce.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, but it is in that there's no splitting of communal property. There's. It just never happened. There's no bunch of legal fees. There's no.

[Monica Padman]

But it Says the marriage records remain on file.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but you no longer have to say I was married in divorce. Because you weren't.

[Monica Padman]

Now that to me is fraudulent. If I married someone and then later and I found out that they had an annulment, they didn't tell me.

[Dax Shepard]

All I'm saying is you're not a divorce. Say, who cares?

[Monica Padman]

To me the same thing if I marry a divorce.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, yeah, someone should tell somebody if they had an annulment, but I definitely see why if someone coerced you into wedding, you shouldn't have to go get a divorce and have that be your ex husband and all these things. No, I think it should be like it never happened.

[Monica Padman]

Interesting. You're very religious.

[Dax Shepard]

I am very. In his name we pray under his eye.

[Monica Padman]

Under his eye. All right.

[Dax Shepard]

That was it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

God, I don't want you to get an annulment, but it's very fun.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, just because we just talked about it and there's. I'm wondering, you know, like, what avenue.

[Monica Padman]

I don't have to go through any of these.

[Dax Shepard]

What avenue are you gonna pursue?

[Monica Padman]

That is so mean.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you have a. You have a menu of options. Like, I want this annulled. Which one's?

[Monica Padman]

Let's hope it's not incest. H. So sad.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Walton Goggins]

Foreign.

[Dax Shepard]

Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.

[Monica Padman]

Hey, everyone, it's your girl, Keke Palmer. Did you know I host a podcast called Baby this is Kiki Palmer.

[Walton Goggins]

And you're not going to believe the conversations I've had.

[Monica Padman]

Like, is only fans, only bad. How has dating changed in the digital age? What's the deal with Disney adults?

[Walton Goggins]

I've talked to John Stamos, the VP, Kamala Hearst, to Jordan Peele, Raven Simone.

[Monica Padman]

And yes, the one and only Jamila Jamil. And just wait until you hear our conversation. We talk Twitter drama, bad dates, and then time. How the hell do you actually get sexy? Like, what the hell does that mean? Like, I know how to be funny. I know how to be like. You know what I'm saying?

[Walton Goggins]

Exactly.

[Monica Padman]

Like, I don't really know how to be like. And take your cl. I'm not robbing fucking givens. You know, it's like, how do people do that? I've been in this situation too many times and not not felt any of those things. The dull eyes, the quiet.

[Dax Shepard]

Like I've never been quiet a moment.

[Monica Padman]

In my fucking life.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes on Baby this is Keke Palmer. No topic is off limits. Follow Baby this is Keke Palmer on.

[Monica Padman]

The Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery.