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Art + Audience
Ep. 20: Mixing Family & Business: The Story of Gingiber’s Growth with Angie Classen
00:29:47
In this special season finale, Stacie sits down with someone very close to her heart—her sister, Angie Classen. Many people know Stacie as the face of Gingiber and Learn with Stacie Bloomfield, but behind the scenes, Angie is an essential part of...
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- [00:00]
Stacey Bloomfield
Hey there, artists and creatives. Do you have burning questions about growing your art business, building your audience, selling your products, or navigating this creative life? Well, now you can call in and ask me directly.
- [00:13]
Angie Clawson
We've set up a dedicated Art plus.
- [00:15]
Stacey Bloomfield
Audience podcast hotline just for you. Simply call 479-966-9561, leave your question and I'll be answering select questions on future episodes.
- [00:29]
Angie Clawson
So.
- [00:30]
Stacey Bloomfield
So whether you're curious about marketing your art, building your brand, licensing, your portfolio, or anything in between, I'd love to hear from you. That number again is 479-966-9561. I can't wait to hear what you're wondering about and dive into these topics on the show. Let's make this a conversation. Bye.
- [00:53]
Angie Clawson
I just felt like deep in my gut if I allowed jealousy or pride or position to enter into our work relationship that I would miss out on some really awesome opportunities because it would sour and poison like the good thing that we had going. And so I spent a lot of time working through that and asking myself really hard questions about what triggers this in me. Why is it? How can I be genuinely showing up, be able to be true about how I feel and not be lying about. Oh, happy for you.
- [01:29]
Wouldn't it be nice if your art business loved you back? Hi, I'm Stacey Bloomfield. After years of trial and error and late night doodling, I went from being a coffee shop manager to running a vibrant seven figure art business that I love. And now I'm on a mission to help more artists create an art business that they love too. So I invite you to find a cozy spot, pull out your favorite sketchbook and listen in. It's never too late to chase you your creative dreams. Welcome to the Art plus Audience Podcast. Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Art plus Audience Podcast. It's a podcast where I want to help teach creatives all over the world how to build an art business that loves them back. And actually, today's a special episode for two reasons. One, this is season one finale episode. I decided that this podcast is going to have season so that I can take little breaks to put things down while I'm picking up new projects. So I'll be back in a few months with brand new episodes, with new guests, new insights, new lessons learned. So I'm really excited to have you here for episode 20. And this is also extra special because our guest today is someone I like a lot. It is my sister, Angie Clawson. A lot of you don't know this because you all See my face for gingerbread and for learn with Stacy Bloomfield. But I don't run all of these things alone. People are always asking me, how are you balancing everything? And I have a team, and the person on my team who I depend on the most is Angie. So, Angie, say hi to everybody. Hi, everybody.
- [03:07]
Nice to meet you.
- [03:08]
Angie is my big sister. She's four years older than me. She's known me my whole life. But I will say that most people are shocked when they hear that we work with each other. When we were younger, did you ever imagine a future where both of our careers would be working with each other?
- [03:24]
Never. Never even crossed my mind that something like that could happen.
- [03:28]
Me either. I think, first of all, because the idea of family working together is typically like everyone's, no, don't do it. And so I think that we always were just thinking that we'd have two separate independent careers because we actually have really different interests, I'd say. But I think that we accidentally were perfectly primed for what we're doing today.
- [03:48]
Yeah, absolutely. It is funny when you think about it.
- [03:51]
Yeah. So our lives have been just literally steps apart from each other. We both have two girls and a boy, in that order. And I had a baby that was a little bit older than Angie's. And whenever she started working with me, she was in that transition that so many people are in where they're like, I can't work full time. I want to be available for my child. And I think you and I were talking one morning about this and I think I just blurted out, why don't you do some part time work for me? I'm a disaster faster.
- [04:18]
Yeah. So I remember being like drowning in my personal life. It was right after I had my second child, Noel, who just turned 12, and she was getting sick every other week, spiking a high fever, and it was like crazy. I was having to leave work all the time to take her home. And I remember being like in my wits end and I was like bawling, I can't keep working. And then my kids sick all the time. What do I do? And that was, I think, what ended up leading to you being like, here's an opportunity when one thing I'll say that I really love about you, and you were one of the first people to do this. Like you were never afraid to ask for help or to invite other people into your space. And that is something I think is really rare and unique because we see artists all the time. Stacy and I work together with a mastermind and all the time, there are women who. It takes a long time for them to be willing to let go of certain parts of their business and invite other experts in to help. And you are so quick to be like, you just said, I'm a disaster.
- [05:20]
But.
- [05:21]
But, like, you weren't. But the organization was, like, not your strong suit at that time. But it's funny because, like, I was strong in, like, organizational things in general. And I remember this is so funny to me. You're like, I have all these people who I've sent wholesale orders to. And I was like, okay, where's the list? And you're like, I don't have a.
- [05:39]
List in my head.
- [05:41]
I was like, how do we know who we mailed to? And you're like, I don't know. It sits in here somewhere. Yeah, that was, like, really funny.
- [05:51]
No, it was okay. Before my third baby, my recall was really good, and it was weird. Like, I could recall all the information that we needed, but I didn't write it down. And after I had Dexter, literally, my brain just stopped being able to do this. And it was actually for the best that we'd already started getting organized, because now if I don't write it down, it doesn't exist. If it's not on my calendar, it doesn't exist. I will forget. But, yeah, Angie came in. And first of all, I'll say that I trust Angie with my life, in the life of my children. That's how much I trust her. And I don't trust everyone that way. Angie is one of the few people who, 100% I know she has my back and my best interest at heart, and she knows the same for me with her. And neither one of us, I feel, are seeking our own best interest whenever it comes to our relationship with each other. And also how we treat each other other at work. Because it felt risky at first. We made each other a deal in the beginning, and we've had to reassess this several times, like, kind of organically. But we made a joking deal in the beginning, like, all right. And if it doesn't work, just. You gotta let me know, and vice versa. We gotta be completely honest with each other, not be afraid of that, because the last thing we want is for our relationship to sour.
- [07:08]
I think one of the things that's really. This whole process has taught me in our relationship and in working together, and I think it, like, could resonate with people listening is, like, it's so easy sometimes to come up against hard things in relationship, and the tendency is to just run away or avoid the conflict or not push through. And there were plenty of times in the past decade plus when we had opportunities to say, we're going to push through this and get better, or we're going to walk away and go our separate ways and just let it lie. And it's not that we said that overtly, but I know there were very difficult seasons. And what this has taught me is that it was always worth it to push through for the people you love.
- [07:52]
Yeah.
- [07:53]
You care about. And so I think that, like, your strength of being like, no, we're going to dig in has been, like, really helpful for me personally.
- [08:03]
So Angie and I problem solve in some ways were exactly the same, and in other ways we're different. And me being the person who likes to move really fast and I can make decisions very quickly. But something that Angie taught me, because we do process things differently, is there's a way to methodically, like, assess things and make sure that we're using data as the reason why we're making our decisions. And some things need to go slower. And that's not a bad thing. You're not missing an opportunity doing that. So, like, you have taught me how to actually be better with other people because I was young when I started Gingerbread. And sometimes when you are assertive, you can think that you're right all the time. And I have worked the entire time that we've worked with each other to be conscious of that, because yourself, like, people act like they don't know, but we know our flaws and we know the things that we tend to get ruffled about. And Angie is like, I could never imagine my life with without you in it in some capacity. And the last thing I would ever want to do is let my own pride get in the way of being able to listen to you and your point of view, which is I value your opinion now, especially in the business, because you went from just joining me and something that I had started for a couple years by myself to then managing wholesale to then, I guess, 2020 or maybe 2021, I launched into education, and Angie was already working for me kind of full time at that point, but she's always been remote. Angie doesn't live in the same town as me. She lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And education was really starting to take off, and I was really struggling to balance it all. And in my head, I knew I needed to hire someone to help me manage the product side. And some business advisor had been like, it needs to be someone new, blah, Blah, blah. So I don't know why, but I was at a stoplight and all of a sudden it dawned on me. I was like, Angie should just be the person to do this. It doesn't need to be a third party. Angie knows this business inside and out. And the only reason I wouldn't be making her that role was because some business advisor had been like, never have it be a family member whenever it comes to like authority in your business because like their interests will become like the most important thing. And when you founded something, you don't want to share things. And this is where I think I do a good job, is sometimes I will buck what standard advice is and just do what I know on my gut. And I was like, I think it should be Angie. And I like, called her immediately. What did you think? Whenever I asked you to come on to actually run the product side of the business for me, I was like.
- [10:31]
Instantly excited, but also nervous because I knew, like, I had an inkling at the time of how intense it was going to be and like all that it entailed and what was like, tricky is like, obviously I have no experience in running a product based business other than the on the job stuff that I've learned along the way. I would say like one thing that's true about you and my and me as well as we're both learners, we're both problem solvers, and anytime we come up against a challenge, I'm confident. You're confident that we can figure it out?
- [11:06]
Oh, yeah.
- [11:07]
Find somebody who knows more than us, who can teach us or we can resource ourselves. I wasn't doubtful about my ability, but I was nervous about the amount of time and could I do it and what was the learning curve going to be like. But honestly, I was just like, it made total sense because I had been holding myself back for a long time because I was trying to go, okay, no, my role is this. And so I would jump in and I do this and I'd be like, but that's not my job. But I know how to do it real quick. And I think that by releasing me, it actually created opportunity for me to be a better version of myself, to bring more to the company than I was before and to not feel like I was having to hold back since.
- [11:50]
I am like the founder of Gingerbread and I'm the face everyone knows. I also think even whenever you stepped into that role with way more freedom to be like, bring all your giftings and talents to our company, I still think you hold yourself Back a little bit because you never wanted to step on my toes and take too much credit and take anything away from me. And, like, I didn't ask you to do that. That's something that you did on your own. But I always want to shine a light on the people who are, like, making things happen. And I think that for a while you were, like, overly complimenting me on things with the team, which I appreciate, but, like, almost making yourself a little bit smaller to make me seem, like, brighter. And I never wanted to ever dim, like, for lack of a better word, your light to make mine shine brighter. And I think that's been one of the more recent things that you and I, as the business has grown. It's not a secret, like, Gingerbread's like, seven figure product based business. Angie's a huge reason why we have scaled that quickly. She's just been phenomenal. The more her fingers have touched things, the more efficiently they have run and the better our data has been.
- [13:03]
Yeah, I remember, like, a particular season, it was around Thanksgiving many years ago, and we hadn't moved into this new, like, level of partnership yet. But I just felt like deep in my gut, if I allowed jealousy or pride or position to enter into our work relationship, that I would miss out on some really awesome opportunities because it would sour and poison, like, the good thing that we had going. And so I spent a lot of time working through that and asking myself really hard questions about what triggers this in me. Why is it? What would this mean? How can I be genuinely showing up with my sister and with my work and be able to be true about how I feel and not be lying about, oh, I'm happy for you. No, I'm not.
- [13:55]
Yeah.
- [13:56]
And for me, what my conclusion was, like, I want to be a hundred percent. I don't want to look for any, like, glory or credit for myself. I want to elevate the people around me and in a real way, not in a fake way, but, like, in a true way. And that kind of, like, the combat to, like, jealousy or like, subversiveness is to be, like, overtly complimentary of the truth. Shine a light on the truth and it instantly gets rid of the lie. Yeah. So that's been like, my approach for a long time. It wasn't to say I'm not great, but it's truly when you just shine a light on the good happening and the truth happening in the people around you, you, it is more rewarding than spending tons of time focusing on yourself. And that's at least for me, that's how I approach like all of my life. So I approach my marriage. It's how I approach a lot of relationships. And so I find when I'm self focused and worrying about myself, usually there's something sour going on beneath the surface.
- [14:51]
Everyone should listen to that because I think especially in a creative industry where we're all working online and we see each other's work and social media can portray life one way. Like, it's very easy to get caught in that trap. I know I've been there in, in different times of my life. And it's wasted energy to put energy into even the tiniest bit of resentfulness or jealousy. It's a bit of a poison. It keeps you from being focused on like the good that's right in front of you. And I've definitely, everyone else have struggled with that in my life too. And I think that what's really beautiful is that we're 12 years into working with each other. We have no intention of stopping anytime soon. And our parents are just so proud of us. They love that we have this really close relationship. It has been intentional on our parts to make this work. But what's bananas is like we complement each other so beautifully. Yeah.
- [15:51]
One thing that is so true about Stacy, if you've ever met her, is she's just like a creative force and she's an idea factory. What really works well in a relationship is Stacy will oftentimes be like, let's do it, we're gonna do it right now and she'll make it happen. And then my strength is like coming in behind and being like, okay, then how do we make it work day in and day out? And so it's. If I didn't have her pushing me forward into some of the decisions, I would probably take so long to deliberate over them that it would happen. And sometimes if she were to keep starting new things, there'd be no one there to come and like work out the day to day. And so I think that's where we compliment each other, is we really push each other. I think we also view the world differently, but similarly enough to where we have similar values, we have similar motivations. So it's not like we're sitting here on opposite sides of something, like having to pull back and forth. It's like we're heading in the same direction, maybe coming at it from different angles.
- [16:53]
Yeah, absolutely. You've told me before, I take a lot of risks and I'm willing to take a lot of risks that other People wouldn't be able to do. And I take really big swings. And that's often why, like, when people ask, like, how have you been able to swing from thing to thing? It's scary and risky, but whenever you have a solid support system behind you, Angie's never going to let me make a boneheaded move. I will listened to her enough that if she is like, sister, this is a very bad idea. The only times I haven't listened to her, honestly, it's been like regretful. And something else that I've learned to do is sometimes I will have a big idea and I know it's the right thing, but then I will end it at the end and be like. And I know that you're going to need a couple days to wrap your head around this idea and get your questions together about it. So let's talk again next week. And that's something I feel like I've started doing in the past two years, especially because I'm always trying to work on myself in my relationships. Angie and I are always like, maybe chronically so self improvers. But when I look back at our childhood, it's interesting because you're brought up at a time when depending on where you're at, like the idea of empowering young girls to have careers and to not go just this one route, which there's nothing wrong with that route. Like, our mom was a stay at home mom and did a great job with us. But like, like our dad never looked at us as if we were just like these frail little girls. He pushed us. He's like, you can be the absolute best. He believed in us more than any other human in the probably the whole world has ever believed in someone. And when you grow up with that kind of encouragement. Oh, yeah. What's the thing that we always say in our heads, Angie? You're a winner.
- [18:39]
You're a winner.
- [18:41]
That's just what our dad has said to us our whole lives. And so maybe when it comes comes to like why Angie and I are wired a certain way, it just goes to show you, like the way you talk to your children and the way you empower them. Like, we have our different personalities for sure, but it makes a huge difference. And so thanks, dad. It's just so joyful to get to love the work that you do and to get to do it with one of your favorite people in the entire world.
- [19:09]
Yeah.
- [19:10]
And I would say we are infinitely closer now than we were when we were younger.
- [19:15]
Definitely.
- [19:16]
Yeah. And I even.
- [19:17]
Than we were five Years ago. There's just been a huge shift for both of us. It's probably age and the stage we're at in life. But I do remember what's been really cool in such a, like, juxtaposition of, like, our ages is the fact that you had children before me. And so every time I would get to a different phase of life where I'd be like, hitting a wall. Like, Stacy would have just hit that wall like a year and a half before or when she would get to a point where, like, suddenly she's got free more free time because her youngest was older. She'd, like, just hang on, like, you're almost there. I think that's been like a big shift is we've connected on motherhood and life stuff in such a significant way. And so it's just made it really helpful, really encouraging, and nice to know that, yeah, like, I'm gonna be there.
- [20:06]
And another thing is we make space for each other real good. I don't even know how to explain it, but when someone is going through a hard season or patch or whatever it is, the other person has no problem making space for that and not making it about themselves and not forcing someone to go through something faster. And so she's been that for me a lot. Because honestly, growing the business as much as it has since 2020 has taken a lot out of me. I don't regret any of it. But there have been some really low seasons for me. And it's not just that I have an amazing person and Angie to help fill in gaps for me at work, but it's that I have this amazing person. Angie is one of my closest confidants and friends who sees that and has been patient with me when I was so annoyed with myself for not being able to snap myself out of it. And then I think vice versa, too. Angie's a bit more stable than I am, I would say most of the time. But it's been for both of us, right?
- [21:06]
Right, Absolutely. Oh, yeah, definitely. I think I'm just more private about it. And that's just my personality. That doesn't mean that I haven't had significantly difficult times that you've like, completely been there for me, like, during. And yeah, it's been really helpful. And then I think something else is that it does flow out into, like, how you and I manage the separate teams that we manage because we don't do it alone either. There's tons of people who are. They're part time, full time capacity who we're Constantly trying to get ourselves out of the way of so that they can thrive and they can do their work and they can be better and empowering other women. It's really cool because we have all women in our company, which is really cool. And at a time there was a season where I was able to hire a lot of, like, mothers, and that was really meant a lot to me because for me, like, this provided the ability for me to be with my kids and work remotely, which I know is, like, not the case for a lot of people. So we've had a lot of opportunity there. And I really enjoy seeing other people grow in their skill sets.
- [22:13]
I do, too. I think what's so funny to me is, like, when I look at Angie, I always see my big sister, and Angie's so good with people. Angie's always been just like, this. This amazing person to talk to, connects with people. She's amazing at hiring people, seeing people's giftings and developing them. That's one of her things that I've admired watching the most. And I, like, want to be as good as her when it comes to those things, because I would say that I'm like, any. Maybe creative who. I would much rather be doing the creative work than the administrative work. Even though I'm good at it, even though I'm really good at business. When I think about who do I want to emulate whenever it comes to running a team or hiring or this or that, like, it's Angie. And I just. I. I mean it. And I. That doesn't mean it's not hard. That doesn't mean you ever can feel perfect at the job you do, but, like, it matters. So Angie's really brought a lot of that to Gingerbread. Also, the studio was very messy before Angie joined the team. It was. Do you remember how messy it was?
- [23:21]
Thank you. I remember coming in and being like, what?
- [23:26]
What?
- [23:27]
What is happening? We spent that one day just reorganizing the whole studio, and I was just, like, aghast because I was like, how do you even function in this space? Oh, my gosh.
- [23:40]
Organized chaos. Organized chaos. Just chaos.
- [23:43]
But now we have Taylor on our team. He is so good. She's taking it to the next level. And I think that's actually a great principle we should all lean into, which is, like, a cringy phrase now, I'm sure. But one of those principles we should really think about is hiring people who are better than you at the thing that you do.
- [24:03]
Now.
- [24:03]
I actually don't feel like the most skilled person on the team in many areas. I feel like we have actually hired people who are better than us in so many areas that it's takes so much pressure off of you and you feel like you have to be the sole best at everything. That's like such a lie that gets into small business owners is I have to be the best this, not the other, which is really. One, it's prideful and two, it's just unrealistic and it's a burden that no one can carry.
- [24:31]
And I think that maybe I'll. It's going to sound like I'm tooting my horn, but I'm not meaning to, but okay. I found a gingerbread. It was 100. My art for all of the time until about 2023. Was it 2023 or 2022? 2022. And something that I've gotten good at is seeing a Runway for if I want to get to there, I've got to take care of this and this over here so that I have the space and the bandwidth to take care of what needs to. So a lot of people probably think it's strange that like I have hired a full time illustrator to work under gingerbread. Her name's Rebecca. She's very talented. A lot of the artwork that we took to market this year was art that she created for the tea towel. Some of mine was there, but in full honesty, like, she has done a phenomenal job with the tea towel designs. Just really taking direction and finding the way to make it feel gingerbread. But also even better in many ways. And that's not to diss myself. She does flowers so beautifully. It's one of the things that even before she worked for us, I, when I followed her online, I was like, her flowers, they're just romantic and beautiful like that. She is a part of what. What's making Ginger Bear continue to grow. To be the creative to make room for someone else's creativity, I think for a lot of people would be really hard. And I think that once I'm ready to do something, I'm just ready. And that's a privilege to be able to hire someone to do that. But also it's made space for her talents. It's made space for me to explore other things and giftings that I have that whenever I was only making art, I couldn't do. Even if you're great at what you do, maybe there's a time in your business when even if you could keep doing it yourself and even if you want to, you need to make Space for other people to come in and shine and to bring something to the table that you never would have thought, because that's what makes us better. And I'm just so proud of what Gingerbread has become, and that's because of many hands. But I think I'm even more proud of. Love the relationship you and I have, Angie. I am so grateful that this is honest to goodness. What you're seeing here is, like, who we are. Yeah.
- [26:49]
What else is cool? And just to encourage people, because not everybody does have a Stacy or an Angie in their life. That's actually yesterday, I was doing an onboarding call for the Mastermind, and I was saying some of you all are living in. Are in communities where nobody even knows what Shopify is is. Nobody's even heard of what you do, and it might feel really lonely. And I was, like, reminding these ladies that's why we're here, and that's why we have a creative community, and that's why we have a mastermind. And that's why, like, this podcast exists. It's because so many creative people are just. They feel like they're on an island by themselves, trying to bring their vision to life. And you actually don't have to do it alone, because that's what we're here for. That's what this community is here for. For yesterday, we were talking about this. I think a lot of the reason why the Mastermind, our mastermind, feels the way it does is because of the way that we are together, the way that we approach business, the way that we approach being warm, open, and supportive of each other. That translates into what we do, and I think that translates into the entire community of all of the education stuff that you put out there in the podcast and all the things. And so I think that is just a real testimony. It's not. Not that way everywhere. It's not that way in other business groups and other creative communities. Sometimes it's competitive, sometimes it's cutthroat, Sometimes it's just cold. Yeah. And so we all need pacesetters in our worlds, in our business, in our lives, who are going a little ahead of us, a little behind us, who we can stay on track with. And I think that's like, what you get whenever you're in a community like this.
- [28:27]
Yeah. And sometimes your pacesetter is your sister. Sometimes it's someone you wish was your sister. But this is why we get to keep doing what we do, is because we keep trying to create space for other people to experience, like, little Bits of joy like this. It's a real treat to get to run Gingerbread with Angie. And we have so many other dreams and so many other things we want to see happen. And so we're just getting started in many ways. Yep. Until we're old and gray. Angie, thank you so much for being here and being here for the finale of season one. And gosh, I'm just so grateful for you and I'm grateful for this podcast. And it's been such a fun surprise to put this out into the world this year and to see the positive reception, to see it be like a top 10 design podcast on Apple. Like, I didn't expect that. And I just want to encourage people. Even though we're wrapping up this season and I'm making space for some other things for a few months, sometimes the thing that you want to do, like we overthink it, we over complicate it. Even though I'm someone who's like a usual, I'm just gonna make it happen and go. When it came to this podcast, I procrastinated. I made every excuse why it couldn't happen. And then finally I just told my team. I'm like, we just have to put it out. Even if it's not perfect, even if it's a little rough around the edges, we just have to make it happen. And we didn't put a lot of pressure on it, and it has just bloomed into something that has given me a lot of personal joy. And thank you for being a part of it, everybody. So with that, I'll see you for season two in a few months of the Art plus audience podcast. Angie, thank you for being here.
- [30:09]
Thank you for having me.
- [30:11]
Bye, everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you subscribe to this podcast and then share it with one of your best art friends? I'd really appreciate it. And then head on over to Instagram and follow me at theleverage your art account, and you can keep up with all of our future episodes. Thank you so much for your support. It means everything to have you here listening and learning.
- [30:35]
Bye.