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Art + Audience
Ep. 27: Carrie Cantwell on Building Confidence, Facing Rejection, and Finding Your Voice
00:29:57
In this inspiring episode, Stacie chats with Carrie Cantwell, a graphic designer turned licensed artist, Skillshare top teacher, podcast host, and creative coach. Carrie opens up about her transformative journey from the high-pressure world of film...
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.
- [00:03]
B
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- [00:20]
A
I was in demand on paper. Very glamorous job. I was designing graphics for movie props, but I was burning out. So I made this intentional decision to leave that career to do this. So then when something didn't go well, I was really cranky about it. I was mad that they had ghosted me.
- [00:38]
B
Yeah.
- [00:39]
A
And then the worst part was that I got mad at myself for being cranky. You left that job that made you cranky to do this. So why are you cranky, Carrie?
- [00:50]
B
Wouldn't it be nice if your art business loved you back? Hi, I'm Stacey Bloomfield. After years of trial and error and late night doodling, I went from being a coffee shop manager to running a vibrant seven figure art business that I love. And now I'm on a mission to help more artists create an art business that they love too. So I invite you to find a cozy spot, pull out your favorite sketchbook, and listen in. It's never too late to chase your creative dreams. Welcome to the Art plus audience podcast. Hello. Hello, Carrie. It's so good to see you.
- [01:24]
A
Stacy, it is wonderful to see you again and thank you so much for inviting me to join you today.
- [01:32]
B
Well, I'm really happy you're here. We saw each other in January and Atlanta. And real quick, tell everyone a little bit about yourself, your backstory, and what you're doing right now, and then let's dive in.
- [01:43]
A
So I started as a web designer at the dawn of the Internet. Really weird, but late 90s, early 2000s, I started out as a designer. I actually had an English degree, but I've always been a creative person. Then I kind of started discovering graphic design. So I went back to school and got another degree in graphic design, and I ended up working in the film industry as a graphic designer from 2005 until 2021, when I quote, unquote, retired from that industry. And it was really fulfilling and rewarding. And I'm a huge movie nerd, so I was very happy doing that. It is very exciting to go to a movie and see your name and your. Your art on a giant screen. But the thing with that industry is it's extremely demanding and the hours are very long and the stress is it's incredible. So I was getting older and I thought, I'm gonna burn out. I watched my colleagues burn out. And I thought, you know what if I'm not ever gonna take the time in my life to start making the art that I want to make and finding a way to make that be my income, I'm going to be on my deathbed and I am going to regret not doing it. And I am a brave person, I guess, and I am always willing to take risks. So I had actually already been on like spoon flower and stuff for a little bit. Just kind of testing the waters and redbubble. But in 2021, I was like, I am going to do this. And then I discovered you in 2022. And the thing is, so I was kind of all over the place. I was throwing spaghetti at the wall and I was doing all kinds of different styles like everyone does, which is totally normal. And I also didn't have a big picture plan for myself. Like, what am I going to do? Who am I as an artist? Somebody else had been defining who I was as an artist for so long. And then when I took leverage youe art, it really helped me kind of solidify. Obviously you did not ask me to be a walking billboard. I'm just doing it naturally because it does come naturally. But it helped me kind of do basically the business side of it. To look at myself as a business artist, art entrepreneur. That was what really was the game changer for me. So then afterwards I started really pitching and, you know, trying new things. And now I am an award winning licensed artist, illustrator and surface designer. I should say. I'm a skillshare top teacher. I am a podcast host because you also gave me the courage to start a podcast. Yeah. And I'm an Etsy star seller, which was of a recent development. And I'm also. I coach people because I believe in giving back. So that's where I am now.
- [04:24]
B
That's incredible. I think that, you know, you kind of attract people who are similar to you sometimes. I think you and I have this in common. When I have a great experience, I talk about it all the time. What's interesting about that is there's a lot of trust that comes from it when it comes from an honest place. So thank you for letting me be a little part of your world. But also I love the fact that like you have just hit the ground running. The thing is, to do what we do sometimes we got to get out of our own way. And I think what you've done is you have become the person in your life, you can see the opportunities, and you're just not afraid to just jump in there and try it, even if it doesn't work, even if it's disappointing, even if you have to let something go and pick something else up. But, like, I wouldn't have my life any other way, and I doubt you would either.
- [05:06]
A
Definitely not. And, you know, I have to say, for anybody who feels like, you know, wow, how is she so brave? Or how. Because people say that to me, I don't know how you're able to. To just go and try these things or do these things. And my courage came with age. I mean, I'm not saying that if you're in your 20s, you can't have that same courage, but when I started getting a little older and I'd kind of been around the block a few times, work wise, I was like, look, life is short. You know, you only have so much time. Why not just try this? If it fails, I care a lot less now that I'm over 50 than I did when I was in my 20s, what people think of me. I just don't care if I look silly or goofy or weird or I put some art out there that people don't like. I'm like, okay, well, whatever, that's cool. I'll move on to the next thing. Because, you know, people's attention spans are short. People's memories are short. Okay, so there's a failure. Big deal. No one's gonna remember. And dwelling on it isn't gonna help me or anyone else. I'm just gonna do something else, dude.
- [06:16]
B
Exactly. My daughter Lucy and my daughter Violet, they're artists and they're starting to create. And Violet is 16 now, and she asked if she could get Instagram for the first time. She's never had social media. She's 16. I was like, okay, we can try it. And she's following all these artists, and all of a sudden she's a great artist. All of a sudden she's like, I'm not good enough. There's so many people better out there. What should I do? I just. And she was like, obsessing. And she stayed up to like 2am drawing because she's like, I have to prove that I can do this. And then the next day, though, what I loved about this is the next day she just kind of dusted herself off and she's like, you know what? I'm falling down that rabbit hole that I never wanted to. Mom. She's such a responsible teenager. She's Like, I didn't want to be this person, and I'm becoming this person, so. So I'm taking a break from Instagram, and I'm just gonna make more work. And then today, she's, like, sewed this gorgeous little top out of my fabric for Moda fabrics, and she just taught herself how to do it. And I'm like, you don't understand. I'm like, the things that come easy to you are the things that you're taking for granted. And I think that, like, that's actually the biggest gift, is to lean into that. And bravery is really just figuring out the thing that you probably don't realize you're killer at and leaning into it instead of trying to regurgitate who you are and. You know what I mean? Into something else that you think is, like, picture perfect. Right?
- [07:32]
A
Yeah. Your daughter is incredibly insightful, because it took me decades to get there. But, you know, there is. I'm sure there's a wisdom that comes from people that age because they already have social media. I look back and I'm like, I can't even imagine if social media had been around when I was in high school, oh, my goodness, I would be a mess right now.
- [07:52]
B
Oh, you know what? Real quick, I need to give a psa. Stop trying to follow my daughter on Instagram. My. My students, she doesn't like it. She's a private account, so if you see her, don't try to follow her. She's getting a little freaked out. So just love out of love, don't follow her. P.S. thank you for following me. Okay, go ahead, Carrie.
- [08:12]
A
So, you know, the thing is, bravery and courage and whatever is not something that is innate in anyone. It's not innate in me either. I struggle with depression and anxiety. I cannot tell you. Even now, as somebody who is stable and takes very good care of myself, I still have doubts all the time. I still get on Instagram sometimes and feel like I'm not good enough. It is a thing. It is real. But it's how you talk to yourself. And also, my mom is a psychotherapist, and she has a sticker on her car, and it is kind of her mantra, and it is also mine. Don't believe everything you think. Just because you think that these people on Instagram are shiny and perfect and better than you and you think that they whipped out that illustration in an hour, that does not mean that it is true. Your feelings are not necessarily reality. Now, I'm not saying to not pay attention to your feelings, but, you know Taking things with a grain of salt is very important. And comparing yourself to anyone but yourself and tracking your progress is just a recipe for disaster. Because we're never going to live up to, you know, any standard that we see someone else setting. And also, you said something, Stacy, that I quote all the time. It is. You should trademark this. You said, at some point along my journey don't compare to your beginning to someone else's middle.
- [09:46]
B
Yep.
- [09:46]
A
And you know, that is so true. When you said that, I dropped everything. And you would think, like, after years of experience and not being, you know, I was already an adult. I already had life experience and work experience. You think I would know that, but I didn't. So being brave and trying new things and putting yourself out there is not something that comes naturally to anybody. But you just. You have to push yourself into it and be willing to be like, look, if it doesn't go well, I'm going to be okay. It's not gonna be the end of the world. And I can move on and do something else.
- [10:23]
B
You know what? Two things. This is so funny. Literally, you won't be able to see it. Cause it'll blur it out. But the book I'm listening to right now is Don't Believe Everything. You think I'll share the link in the notes of the episode. But I'm literally listening to it right now. And I wanna say something that's interesting. I found out that there are some people who don't think like this, who are not unkind to themselves. You know why? My sister is one of them. And I literally growing up. I think there's something about creative, specifically now she's creative, but not like. Like, I would say the people are. Who are, like, trying to build this visual career, you know, she said, I always grew up, and if anyone didn't like me, I thought, hmm, I wonder what's wrong with them.
- [11:01]
A
I'm amazing.
- [11:02]
B
Like, that's how confident she is. And I never had that confidence. And I was with her last Wednesday and we were talking about manifestation. If it's real, we were talking about the science behind it. Alex Hormozi doesn't think it's real. It's just about what you make it to be. And I was like, let me say something. I was like, angie, here's. And she understood what I meant when I said it. I was like, I didn't grow up like you. I grew up with the most negative thought life you can ever imagine. And so for me to be able to actually, like, sit down and like, write down what I wanted. And then to create a vision board to look at. I was like. It was like the only time the noise was quiet for me sometimes where it wasn't like, you fraud. You know, it's scary out there because, like, I, I like so many creatives. Like, that was the, the normal, the abnormal was this visionary thing, which is like, it is possible and I have to flex that. And so, like, I think everything is very related, whatever I'm calling manifestation, which may be the result of my hard work, because I'm focused on something and building towards it and I can see the opportunity. That same thing could have been standing right in front of me, but 10 years ago, that version of me couldn't hear it or see it because the negative self talk was so big. And so I only know because it's been years and years of growth. But I remember being the little girl who I never thought if someone didn't like me because they had a problem, I'm happy. That's what it is for my sister. Like, seriously, she's the most confident person I know and she inspires me every day. But I don't think in our neck of the woods, that's the norm.
- [12:31]
A
Yeah, I, I mean, I agree. And you know, growing up, if someone didn't like me, of course, I said, well, what's wrong with me? And like, what can I do to change so they'll like me? You know, I mean, so that is really amazing for her. And of course, you know, here's the thing too. Those are often the people that end up being the entrepreneurs, because you have to be a certain level of confident, almost sociopathic level of confident to become, you know, to start your own business. Like, look at big tech guru, you know, entrepreneurs we see out there today. And, you know, so there's a weird disconnect as artists between the idea of being confident and being this, you know, go getter business person and then also being somebody who draws pictures and they come from your heart. There's not a lot of overlap there.
- [13:24]
B
No, it's a lot of learning skills. It is a learned skill. And I learned how to become the confident, ish version of myself. Literally this last week I was on social media and I was thinking, ah, crap, it's changing again. And so you know what I did, though? I just decided to be weird. Maybe this is just the default we should go into, like, when it starts to creep in, like, maybe we need to double down on whatever the thing that makes you weird. I think my gift Is that I'm a little delusional, Carrie. I think I'm just a little bit, like, healthy amount of delusional. I'm not optimistic. I'm delusional. I just figure, like, what's going to hurt me here? So our family just went through something recently, and I'm talking about on the podcast. My husband lost his job two months ago. Then he went through the process of applying for jobs, and it was really drawn out. He had four interviews with one place and a project. And our worst fear was that we'd wait all that time and lose that time and he wouldn't get it, and he didn't get the job in the end. But I remember we were sitting there together, and I was like, you know, now that the worst thing that could happen has happened and we have felt it and we're still here, like, we're untouchable now. Easy to say that, but, like, truly, when the worst thing you imagine happens, the rejection, the failure, the bad investment, whatever it is, and you're still okay, so to speak, not unscathed, but okay, that's, like, actually a powerful place to be, right?
- [14:44]
A
Yeah, exactly. And then it puts everything in perspective, because things in your head, or at least things in my head, are always worse. You know, I bet when you were imagining it before that happened, it was worse in your head than it really was when it actually happened.
- [15:02]
B
That's exactly it. I think everyone should think about this, because everyone's worst fear doesn't matter. If you're at the beginning stages of, like, our career, you know, we are talking to people like, just send the pitch. Just send the pitch. What you realize over time is that ends up being, like, the easiest thing you can do because you begin to grow in other ways. But you just have to start doing the scariest thing where you're at right now, because what's the worst thing that's gonna happen on the other side? You know, Worst thing is, okay, we wasted a little time and we keep going, or we let that be the thing that stops us now. That doesn't mean we don't feel like crap in between the thing happening and the moving forward, which is probably skipped over a lot, right? Like, what do you do in between?
- [15:40]
A
Well, the first thing that I do and kind of why I wanted to start my podcast was I was beating myself up for feeling cranky. I had an agency that was courting me. This was a while ago. And they were really looked amazing. I mean, I was like, how are they approaching me? Whoa, this is Going to be the answer to all my problems. So we went back and forth, and then I got the contract from them, and my attorney looked it over and was like, I don't think you should sign this. You know, I could have just jumped the gun and signed it anyway, but I'm really glad I didn't. What I actually did was I said, well, can we make these changes? And then they ghosted me. The thing is. So I made a very intentional decision to quit a career where I was getting pension, not just 401k. I said the word pension. I had. I know I was in demand on paper, very glamorous job. I was making movie prop, designing graphics for movie props, but I was burning out. So I made this intentional decision to leave that career to do this. So then when something didn't go well and this was a big deal, I was really cranky about it. I was mad that they had ghosted me. And then the worst part was that I got mad at myself for being cranky because I thought, but this is supposed to be. You left that job that made you cranky to do this. So why are you cranky? Carrie? Bad Carrie. So I was beating myself up on top of being upset about the disappointment. So what I did was I, first of all, I said, it's okay for me to be cranky. You know what? This sucks. This was not ideal. I felt my feelings. You know, I didn't wallow in them or anything. And then I just picked myself back up again, and I said, all right, I'm just going to move on and keep going. And, you know, by giving myself the grace to accept that it was understandable, reasonable, and normal for me to feel disappointed and frankly, cranky made me feel better about the whole situation. And it also helped me recover faster. So it really built up my resilience. And the more times that happens, the stronger I get. So now when something happens, which it's not like that hasn't happened since then or something similar, it doesn't affect me as much.
- [18:08]
B
If you don't give yourself the time to figure it out, you might just do the thing where you keep yourself productive. And maybe that works for you. But I know some people who never stop and feel it. Maybe that works for some people. Who am I to judge? But I will say it's okay. It's okay to get mad. It's okay to be pissed off. It's okay to be disappointed. It doesn't always have to have the silver lining. Sometimes there is no silver lining. I think I Like to make meaning of things. And so sometimes in retrospect, I can see a through line, and that gives me comfort that maybe everything serves. But in the moment, you don't feel that.
- [18:42]
A
Yeah, and you're not going to. I mean, that's the thing. You're. You're talking about how when you're having a bad day or you had a bad experience and people are trying to make you feel better, you don't have any insight when you're in that place, that's totally normal. But, you know, the thing is, when you, when you kind of push through it. I have not had, and I'm being totally honest here, I have not had any negative experience that has not at least given me one little tidbit of a learning experience. Even if it was just, I don't want to do that again. I don't want to go through that again. Because even that is. Well, what can I do to mitigate the risk of having that happen again? Maybe I shouldn't have put myself in the position where that happened in the first place.
- [19:27]
B
So, Carrie, you talk a lot about, you know, what you do, your past with film, you mentor people. Do you still have your membership?
- [19:36]
A
I do, yeah.
- [19:38]
B
Graphics gang. Like, what do you want to do next? Like, if you could imagine five years from now what you want your life to look like, maybe it's just what you want to have different in your life. What would it be?
- [19:51]
A
So I'm already trying to make that happen. I have been licensing my art for a little while now, and I love it. And I am always excited to have new art licensing partners. In fact, recently I finally cracked the nut of getting my art on apparel. That was my big thing, so. And it is all it's cracked up to be in many ways. But the thing about me is that once I reach what I think is the ultimate end result or pinnacle of success in a certain niche of an industry or a field, I get bored and I want to go do something else. So I was in film. You know, I was like a sought after graphic designer and the only place to go was up. But that was to be an art director. And I didn't want to do that. I had tried being an assistant art director and it was like, first of all, I did not have, I will say for all art directors out there in film, you. You really need an architecture degree to do that job. And I don't have one, nor can I do amazing floor plans. I think me learning sketchup doesn't quite count, but I'm now what I want to do is I want to do editorial illustration because I've been making and there's nothing wrong with pretty pictures. And I am dedicated to making art that makes people laugh so that no matter what kind of day they're having, they can, like, let go of it and just laugh and put, you know, lighten the load for them a little bit. But it is so hard for me right now to live in a bubble and not want to create art that is somewhat reacting to and hopefully making a difference in the world and reacting to what's going on. And I'm not going to say anything political at all, but my goal is I want to create art for news or for current events. That is making high concept art. That is making a statement, reminding us to a, you know, laugh and be happy, but also to, like, love each other and remember that we're all equals. And I feel like I've done. I've gotten where I wanted to be with licensing, and now that I feel pretty confident as an artist, I want to use it to help make the world a better place. And that is sounds so. I don't know what the word is. It sounds so arrogant for me to say that because I can't think that I would do that. But I hope that I can start making art and getting paid to do that and getting it put out there, you know, for everyone to see. That makes people feel happier and be better to one another.
- [22:26]
B
Be better to one another. I gotta tell you, you're gonna find that you will probably grow really, in a way you don't realize when you do that. I. In 2018 and 2019, I feel like I went through a similar moment, you know, where it's like, I want to do something different. I kind of was getting bored. And so that's when I started expressing my opinions and views about how we treat each other and other things. When you start speaking the things that you believe in and your truths and the things you're passionate about, there is someone else out there who's going to meet you there too. And it's going to be what they need to hear. And it could be the call to action they need for the day. I can't tell you how many times something that I thought was like a throwaway thing that I just created and put online ended up being a big part of someone else's story. Does that.
- [23:12]
A
Well, I love the illustration. I know. I think I know exactly what you're talking about because you did these women illustrations with text and they're very inspiring and they're very body positive and I think they're great and they are, they're very meaningful.
- [23:27]
B
I just think that I'm someone who's not afraid of change. Like, I'm not afraid of change. And I think that that's why I get excited sometimes by things that don't excite other people. Because I literally do ask myself, like, what does this make possible? And that is very Pollyanna maybe sounding. But I really do think that, like, what did like, my husband losing his job make possible for us? It changed a lot of things. And if I were to sell Gingerbread, what would be possible for me next? Because I'm not going anywhere, right? Like, I got a whole lot of life to live and I don't know, I enjoy journeys. Let me just. I just like, I love journeys. So that's.
- [24:06]
A
And that's what it is. We're both on a journey. There is no end to the journey. You know, it's. You're always growing and learning and trying new things and the world is changing. So even if you're going to keep doing the same thing, the world is changing around us, as we know. I mean, the thing is, you know, you were saying earlier that you were like, you would do the thing where you're like, what's the worst that could happen? But the flip side of of that is what comes with taking risks and having amazing things happen is you also ask yourself, what's the best thing that could happen?
- [24:37]
B
And like, I'm definitely not as risk averse as other people, like my sister who works with me. So, like, Angie works in the product side of the business. And I think that, like, I'm always wanting to swing big. I'm always want to take these big, giant swings. And she will help me, like, try to take the right swings, which is like the benefit of having someone who can watch me from the outside. But, like, we definitely wouldn't have gotten to where we have with gingerbread if I hadn't been willing to take some big swings when other people might have, like, shied away. I literally am just like, all right, what am I going to do now? And I think I'm just a little bit of a scrappy gal. And I think that in a way I know that there's no perfect roadmap. That'd be pretty boring. I know people think they want the roadmap. I think life is not built that way. You might do everything right on the roadmap and you can't control, like, I Just said when tariff increased, all of a sudden, you know, profit margins change. And then it's like, we have to pause things.
- [25:34]
A
Like, I'm hearing the same thing.
- [25:37]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I didn't do anything to have that happen. But now it's like, okay, well, if I'm not going to sell the business right now, that means I'm going to take a bigger swing while I own it. And so we're. We're playing bigger. We're trying different things. At Gingerbread, I really am excited about what's happening.
- [25:52]
A
I cannot wait to see where this goes, too, because I can tell that you, when I was watching or, you know, looking at your illustrations of the women with the inspiring, you know, motivational text and everything, I'm like, aha. I see where Stacy's heart is with this stuff and your motivation behind making it. So I love the idea of if. If that's not it. But, I mean, I love seeing that. I loved seeing all of that and knowing that, you know, you're. You're really pouring your heart into it and you're thinking about. You're not just. There's nothing wrong with making pretty pictures and pretty products because those serve a purpose, and they're definitely a form of, you know, it's. It makes you feel better to have a nice tea towel. And, you know, I look down sometimes. My nails are not super great right now, but when I'm like, oh, I have nice fingernails, at least, you know, it's like little things that are life's joys that can brighten up any day. But, you know, I can tell that you also kind of are like me, where you're like, well, I also want to spread a positive message through my art. And we have this audience, you know, obviously yours is quite a bit bigger than mine, but we still have eyeballs on our art. And it's like, why not use that opportunity to spread not just happiness, but, you know, real awareness and. And maybe make a difference?
- [27:15]
B
I think so. And, you know, at the end of the day, like, Gingerbread is not who I am. It's something I built and created, and it. A lot of me went into it, but I feel like there's a lot more for us to give and to experience as creative beings, and it. It can manifest in a lot of different ways. So I'm excited for you to take that journey towards editorial because I think that you're, like, just hearing you talk about it, you're gonna have so much fun. You're gonna have.
- [27:41]
A
I hope so. I know it's. The funny thing is, and I knew this, but people like, you know, I keep seeing it's very fast paced and I'm like, oops, what did I do? Well, you know what? I know how that goes. I've done it. I can do it with my eyes closed. But this time it would be me creating things that are more meaningful than just. I mean, I used to tell people what I made in film was the blurry stuff that you didn't see behind the actors. And. And you're not supposed to see it because otherwise the world, if it sticks out, the world isn't believable. So I'm going to make the art that sticks out that isn't the blurry stuff in the background. That's still.
- [28:16]
B
You'll go fast. You'll go fast because it's stuff you typically care about. Like, I can't tell you how many of those illustrations that from that. It's my era. Oh my gosh, I'm like Taylor Swift. So many eras. That era of my life where the inspiration would come and all I could do was like, I have to sit down and create this right now and get it out of my head. And I think that whenever you're doing editorial, design, design like that, I've only had a little bit of opportunity to do editorial. I think that it can actually go flow out of you really quickly. And I think that you only get faster and faster at it the more you do it. Geez Louise. So I'm really excited for you, Carrie. So as we wrap up, where can everyone like hang out with you online? Keep in touch, support your journey, all the things.
- [28:57]
A
So everything is a spider web out from my website, which is caricantwell.com so if you go there, you can find my Etsy shop and the graphics gang and my podcast and my licensing information. The only other thing is that my editorial is on kind of a separate site. But if you want to share that in the show notes, I can give that to you. But caricantwell.com is my main website.
- [29:25]
B
Carrie, thank you for being here and for practically interviewing me at parts I can tell you host a podcast. Okay. Because like, yeah, you get it. Thank you for being here and everyone. I hope that you loved this interview with Carrie. Go show up and support her. Give her a follow and see what happens next.
- [29:43]
A
Thank you so much for having me, Stacey.
- [29:45]
B
Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you subscribe to this podcast and then share it with one of your best art friends. I'd really appreciate it. And then head on over to Instagram and follow me at the leverage your art account account, and you can keep up with all of our future episodes. Thank you so much for your support. It means everything to have you here listening and learning. Bye.