High Heels

Summary

Podcast Summary: "High Heels" (Articles of Interest, May 15, 2026)

Hosted & Produced by: Avery Trufelman
Guests: Audie Cornish, Colleen Hill, Elizabeth Semmelhack, Emily & Jessica Leung, Martha Davis, Roman Mars
Main Theme:
Avery Trufelman revisits her first-ever fashion story—an exploration of the history and cultural meaning of high heels. With the benefit of 12 years’ hindsight and input from industry experts, she examines how high heels have evolved as objects of fashion, symbols of gender and power, and indicators of social change.

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Episode Overview

This episode reflects on the journey of high-heeled shoes—from their historical origins to their roles in 21st-century fashion and personal choice. Avery Trufelman replays and analyzes her 12-year-old segment on high heels, then dissects what's changed: the rise and fall of heel heights, shifts in comfort and practicality, and the social implications of wearing (or not wearing) heels.

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Key Topics, Discussions, and Insights

1. Revisiting the Past and Fashion's Shifting Landscape

• Avery introduces the episode by confessing her hesitation to revisit high heels because the subject felt already covered in her early career, but acknowledges that changing contexts make fashion worth re-examining.
  Quote [00:00]: “I actually already did a story about high-heeled shoes…back when I was 23 years old.” — Avery Trufelman

• In 2014, the trend was “really, really tall” heels (6 or 7 inches), sharply contrasting with today's more practical, lower, block heels.
  Quote [00:34]: “High heels were in fashion at that time, but are they the leading shoe trend? Not at the moment.” — Colleen Hill

2. Roots of the High Heel: From Pragmatism to Power

• Origins: High heels date back centuries, beginning with men—specifically for horseback riding in Persia, where heels helped keep boots in stirrups. Quote [11:08]: “Many horseback riding cultures wore heels on their boots and on their shoes for riding.” — Elizabeth Semmelhack

• Adoption & Gendering: As heels entered European upper classes, they transitioned from a marker of upper-class masculinity to a signifier of aristocratic femininity by the 18th century. Quote [11:56]: “In all those paintings of Louis XIV and his little kitten heels, he’s dressing like the pillar of normative aristocratic masculinity.” — Roman Mars

3. The Heel's Association with Sex and Power

• Post-French Revolution: Heels fell out of fashion with the rejection of aristocracy. They resurfaced as tools of visual erotica, especially due to photography and pornography, then re-entered general fashion as stilettos in the mid-20th century. Quote [13:09]: “It’s around this time when heels become sex charged.” — Audie Cornish

• Modern Symbolism: Heels acquired meanings tied to professionalism and power, especially for women in the workplace. Quote [21:11]: “The high heel could come to mean simply professional power, or it could come to be that female professionals are the new power brokers.” — Elizabeth Semmelhack

4. The Physics and Challenge of Comfort

• Pain & Hacks: High heels are notoriously uncomfortable. The episode highlights the hacks people use to make them bearable, from taping toes to special insoles. Quote [14:09]: “Put the heel liner in and it will prevent your shoe from, like, flopping off. You know what I mean?” — Avery Trufelman

• Health Costs: Foot specialists and designers detail the toll that heels take—everything from short-term pain to bunions, hammertoe, and Haglund’s deformity. Quote [15:27]: “Because it’s not just your foot pain, it’s your ankle pain. It shortens your calves, it ruins your posture…” — Emily & Jessica Leung

• Designers Respond: Designers like Martha Davis and the Leung sisters discuss fitting, ergonomics, and experimenting with shapes and materials to enhance comfort without losing aesthetics. Quote [17:36]: “A heel can be really successful as long as the shoe fits properly. So it’s not a question of the height, it’s a question of the fit.” — Martha Davis

5. Cultural Shifts: The Rise and Fall of the Heel

• Accessories Arms Race: After handbags became moneymaking “IT” accessories in the 2000s, shoes—especially extravagant heels—became the new battleground for designers. Quote [03:25]: “Designers were seeing these high-end shoes as a way to make these almost sculptures for your feet…really eye catching. That was really in contrast to what people were seeing as much less interesting clothing on the runway at the time.” — Colleen Hill

• Media Influence: “Sex and the City” popularized the idea that sky-high heels could be worn everywhere, cementing the shoe’s status as a fashion must. Quote [04:01]: “I think Sex and the City cannot be underestimated in its influence.” — Colleen Hill

• Pendulum Swings Back: From extreme heights, the trend shifted toward lower heels and comfort post-2015, accelerated by the pandemic's focus on practicality and remote work. Quote [28:44]: “Already by maybe 2015, we start to see a shift to lower heels, things that are a little bit more manageable.” — Colleen Hill

• Zoom & Safety Culture: Recent events (pandemic, safety concerns) make comfort and mobility a priority. Heels now signal formality or traditional roles rather than daily necessity. Quote [29:47]: “I rethought some things. I was like, I can't run for my life in this situation. So that was a clarifying moment for sure…” — Audie Cornish

6. Personal Reflection: Why Heels Persist

• Both Audie and Avery discuss the performative nature of heels: they’re part costume, part self-expression, and are donned (or not) depending on expectations, settings, and personal evolution. Quote [26:18]: “Does affect who you are in the moment and in the world. Right. Maybe 10 or 15 years ago...I actually wore heels in the hallways of Congress to cover lawmakers. It really felt like you had to look a certain way.” — Audie Cornish

  Quote [31:13]: “Ah, it just feels like the thing to do. I’m having a very traditional wedding, and I’m, like, wearing white. I’m doing the thing. It’s the costume.” — Avery Trufelman

• The expectation—the “bit” or “costume”—is both media-driven and self-sustained, suggesting the resilience of certain fashion symbols even amidst generational and societal change.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:29: Avery sets up the episode; reflects on 2014 vs. now in heel fashion.
• 01:34–04:46: Colleen Hill discusses runway vs. street trends and the handbag-to-shoe accessory shift.
• 08:21–21:33: Replay of 2014 99% Invisible episode interweaving the history and engineering of heels from Ancient Persia to the present.
• 21:33–22:01: Avery and Audie re-engage post-episode, reflecting on personal and societal evolution.
• 25:31–31:42: Contemporary reflections from Audie, Colleen, and Avery about current trends, work/life context, and lived experience.
• 29:47–30:48: Safety, fashion, and living in the modern world.
• 31:13–32:10: Personal ritual and tradition: why we still choose heels for milestones.
• 32:10–32:30: “MacGyvering” heels endures; modern hacks for classic problems.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Fashion’s Cyclical Nature:
  “Fashion’s always a pendulum. So with those 6 or 7 inch platform heels...that’s pretty much the most extreme you can go. And so then designers start to think about what else they can do.” — Colleen Hill [28:44]

• On Social Shifts:
  “When fashions change, it’s symptomatic. Of larger societal shifts. Fashion changes are these mass movements dictated by millions of individual realities.” — Avery Trufelman [05:04]

• On Comfort in the Modern Era:
  “The emphasis on comfort, it almost strikes me as a reflection of the tech industry, which is so built around, like, eliminating pain points…our clothes are so supplicant to our needs now.” — Avery Trufelman [29:12]

• On Performing Femininity:
  “There’s sort of like an overly sort of feminized look that you sort of put on. Like you’re sort of dressing like a butterfly even though you are delivering not amazing news.” — Audie Cornish [27:50]

• On the Persistent Allure of Heels:
  “There is something to be said for a well made high heel shoe that kind of makes your calves look amazing and puts that like, inappropriate, probably sexy arch in your back. I like that feeling.” — Audie Cornish [18:49]

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Conclusion: Heels as Costume, Code, and Change Agent

The episode weaves historical research, personal narrative, and social commentary to illustrate high heels not just as footwear, but as loaded cultural artifacts. While towering heels fell from ubiquity, their symbolism endures—shaped by forces as varied as corporate marketing, feminist critique, and public safety. The modern heel is as much about context, persona, and personal negotiation as it is about style or sex appeal.

Final Quote [31:42]: "Why am I wearing heels? It’s in a backyard. It doesn’t make sense. I’m just going to be aerating the lawn.” — Avery Trufelman

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For more: See photos, references, and additional links at articlesofinterest.substack.com.

Transcript

[Avery Trufelman]

A number of you dear listeners have asked if I would ever do a story about high heeled shoes. And I've always demurred because the thing is, I actually already did a story about high heeled shoes. It's just that I did it 12 years ago, back when I was 23 years old, and I sounded like this.

[Audie Cornish]

Heels affect the way you move through the world.

[Avery Trufelman]

Maybe I don't sound different. I feel like I sound really different. But this was actually the first fashion story I ever made. It was back when I was working at the incredible architecture and design podcast, 99% invisible. And this was the first that I was like, what if we considered clothing design? But the interesting thing is, when I made this, it was 2014, and that happened to be a very particular time in shoe fashion. Because at the time in 2014, high heels were really, really tall. They were like six or seven inches tall. And not that high heels that tall don't exist anymore. Obviously they still exist, but these days, when I see heels around, they tend to be a low, thick, thick block heel. So it was really funny listening back to this montage I made of people hacking their shoes to try to make them more comfortable. Like, listen to this. This feels really dated to me.

[Audie Cornish]

YouTube is full of hacks and tips and tricks.

[Avery Trufelman]

Put the heel liner in and it will prevent your shoe from, like, flopping off.

[Audie Cornish]

MacGyver type fixes for the shoe.

All you need is felt and a glue stick and a glue gun. Remember, guys, do not burn yourself.

[Avery Trufelman]

Like, are people still doing that? Are people still MacGyvering their heels? This felt very 2014.

[Colleen Hill]

High heels were in fashion at that time, but are they the leading shoe trend? Not at the moment.

[Avery Trufelman]

I popped over to the Fashion Institute of Technology to talk to Colleen Hill.

[Colleen Hill]

I am senior curator of costume at the museum at FIT. I started thinking about High Heels in about 2012, but it really was this moment in time when extreme heels were the shoe going down the Runway. Really extreme heels, they were absolutely the leading shoe trend.

[Avery Trufelman]

So when there are these, like, massive sculptural heels that are stomping down the Runway, does it actually make its way out into the street? Like, were you seeing people wearing these around?

[Colleen Hill]

I was, believe it or not, and I was wearing some of them too, but obviously I was much younger at the time.

[Avery Trufelman]

So all day, you wore them all day?

[Colleen Hill]

Yeah, I would wear them all day.

[Avery Trufelman]

So why did high heels used to be so tall?

[Colleen Hill]

This trend, this trend for really high shoes that started around maybe 2010 was first viewed as an alternative to the IT bag. This early 21st century, really late 90s IT bag phenomenon.

[Avery Trufelman]

In the 90s, giant corporate groups like LVMH and Kering were buying up fashion houses, and they were encouraging designers to send handbags down the Runway to try to sell more accessories.

[Colleen Hill]

And LVMH is a huge part of that.

[Avery Trufelman]

LVMH had shareholders to please, and the markup on bags is really high, but. But consumers are willing to spend on it.

[Colleen Hill]

When it comes to handbags, you can get a lot of wear out of them.

[Avery Trufelman]

Bags also don't require sizing, which is much easier for both the manufacturer and the buyer.

[Colleen Hill]

Anyone can fit into a handbag.

[Avery Trufelman]

Bags became massive moneymakers. They became these objects of mass obsession. But as more and more fashion houses came out with a rotation of bags, it became harder to stand out from the pack.

[Colleen Hill]

Designers were thinking about what came next. And designers were seeing these high end shoes as a way to make these almost sculptures for your feet. I mean, they were really extreme, both in height, but also lots of color, lots of embellishment, and they were really eye catching. That was really in contrast to what people were seeing as much less interesting clothing on the Runway at the time.

[Avery Trufelman]

During gray sleek 90s minimalism, shoes gave a little permission to play. And then came Carrie Bradshaw.

[Colleen Hill]

I think Sex and the City cannot be underestimated in its influence.

[Avery Trufelman]

It's part of where people got the idea that you could wear high, high heels all day long. Not fathoming that Sarah Jessica Parker or Cynthia Nixon could remove their shoes between takes.

[Colleen Hill]

That's where we start to really know shoe brands and designers, I think, really prompted in part by Sex and the City. But as we get into the 21st century and the idea of fashionable shoes, I think when this becomes more of a thing, there's really this kind of amping up of who's doing great shoes and where they're sold and who's doing the best new thing. And a lot of shoe departments, particularly here in New York, were expanding.

[Avery Trufelman]

In 2007, Saks announced their shoe department was big enough to warrant its own

[Audie Cornish]

zip code, 10022 shoe.

[Avery Trufelman]

In 2008, Barney's and Macy's also announced their devoted SH departments.

[Colleen Hill]

That says a lot about how shoes were becoming much more important in the fashion market.

[Avery Trufelman]

And this gets to where I was when I made that episode about high heels for 99% invisible. And when I listened to this old episode, it really was a missive from another time. When fashions change, it's symptomatic. Of larger societal shifts. Fashion changes are these mass movements dictated by millions of individual realities. And I love nothing more than looking at a recent trend with the benefit of hindsight. Why did high heels used to be so towering? And what changed? What made them lower and squatter? So I'm gonna play that old episode I made. It's short, and then we're gonna pick it apart a little bit and talk about what's happened since after the break.

[Robin from PRX]

Hey there, it's Robin from prx and I'm here to tell you that our fellow Radiotopia show Proxy is back with a new season. Proxy is a show built on the idea that no one is ever alone with their problem. No matter how niche, no matter how weird. Cause somewhere out there is someone who gets it on. Proxy host Yowei Shaw searches for a stranger with the closest possible experience to what someone is going through a Proxy and then she brings them together for a conversation. The cases can get pretty thorny, like a writer who loses the internal narrator in her head. But they can also be funny little weird problems. Like a podcast host not knowing how to speak.

[Avery Trufelman]

Bro.

[Robin from PRX]

The new season of Proxy is out now. A good place to start is Jane doesn't like her dogs about the terrifying moment when the thing you love starts giving you the ick. Listen to Proxy wherever you get your podcasts.

[Avery Trufelman]

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[Roman Mars]

This is 99% invisible. I'm Roman Mars. If you hear these footsteps, you can get some idea about who is walking towards you. She could be a supermodel, a CEO, a drag queen, a bridesmaid, just to name a few. As a fashion object and symbol, the high heel is weighted with meaning.

[Audie Cornish]

It is also weighted with the wearer's entire body weight. The high heeled shoe might be one of the only designs that is physically painful and yet somehow persists.

[Roman Mars]

Avery Trufelman doesn't tend to wear heels.

[Audie Cornish]

I really like the way heels look and I've tried wearing them, but I just cannot do it. So I talk to someone who actually wears them every day.

And I have a standing desk, so I'm even a bigger dummy, right? Like I am in these heels all day and standing.

And when Audie does her job, you

[Avery Trufelman]

can't even tell she's doing it in heels.

[Audie Cornish]

This is ALL Things CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Adi Cornish.

[Roman Mars]

Believe it or not, we radio folk actually bother to get dressed sometimes.

[Audie Cornish]

For Audie Cornish, like a lot of professionals, high heels are strictly for the office.

[Avery Trufelman]

Commuting to work.

[Audie Cornish]

It's flats after work, back in flats.

Because it is impossible, I feel like, to find a shoe that is a high heel that's really gorgeous and fundamentally comfortable.

She's tried high heels that claim to use comfort technology, but it's like a

three and a half inch, four inch pump. Like, it's only going to be so comfortable. They're shoes that are wearable and I can wear them for hours. But I wouldn't call it comfortable, Right? It's just, it's just possible.

And she does not like to complain.

You do it to yourself, right? So it's, it's dumb to walk around being like, these heels hurt because that's basically like saying, I failed at this look.

[Roman Mars]

But people have been failing at this look for a very long time.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I can't tell when the heel was actually invented. I think that history is long buried and dates back centuries and centuries and centuries in the Near East.

[Audie Cornish]

Elizabeth Semmelhack curates a very specialized museum in Toronto.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I'm Elizabeth Semmelhack and I'm the senior curator at the Bata Shoe Museum.

[Avery Trufelman]

I've got to ask, why isn't it the Shoeseum?

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I don't know. You were the first to ask me that question.

[Roman Mars]

The collection at the Bata Shoe Museum or Shoeseum, includes a lot of different kinds of footwear. But high heels are the focus of Elizabeth Similhack's research and the subject of her book Heights of A History of the Elevated Shoe.

[Audie Cornish]

And that history, as it turns out, started with men.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Many horseback riding cultures wore heels on their boots and on their shoes for riding.

[Roman Mars]

Heels help you stay in the stirrups, which is why cowboy boots have heels.

[Audie Cornish]

As early as the 10th century, the Persian cavalry was wearing inch high high heels. And Persia had a really big, really talented mounted military. So this spread the trend.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And so European men have heels, heels added to their riding boots. It's associated with upper class practice because having horses, keeping horses, you know, it's like having a sports car. And so it seems that from there men wore it first and within short order, upper class women added heels to their own outfits. And then heels become a form of upper and middle class dress throughout the 17th century. But it really wasn't yet a strong signifier of gender.

[Roman Mars]

In all those paintings of Louis XIV and his little kitten heels, he's dressing like the pillar of normative aristocratic masculinity. He is nothing effeminate about him at the time.

[Audie Cornish]

But then heels started to get gendered in their designs. Men's heels grew broad and sturdy and women's became tapered and decorative. Finally, men deemed them impractical. And in the 18th century, the high heel is strictly a lady shoe.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

And something really interesting happens at the end of the 18th century, which is the French Revolution. And when the French Revolution happens, high heels, although they were very much associated with femininity, they were also very much associated with aristocratic femininity.

[Roman Mars]

Post French Revolution, aristocracy and frivolity are out of vogue.

[Audie Cornish]

And then heels stay out of style for a really, really long time until, and this is Semmelhack's theory, the invention of the camera. Because with photography came pornography. And with the rise of pornography came the rise of the heel.

[Roman Mars]

Pornography embraced high thin heels before fashion did, because heels work great when you don't have to move and you're just posing for a few minutes.

[Audie Cornish]

It's around this time when heels become sex charged.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

The pinups that are in men's barracks during World War II almost always have high heels on them. When the war is over and the men return home, that is when the stiletto is invented, because the stiletto brings fashion into alignment with men's erotica.

[Audie Cornish]

As heels made their way out of photography and onto the street and into the office, there arose the engineering challenge of trying to make this fundamentally uncomfortable thing comfortable.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

I think the physics of putting the weight of a woman's body basically on the balls of her feet is, you know, that's a lot of pressure to try to mitigate.

[Audie Cornish]

So people try to find ways around the design. There are foldable flat shoes that you can take with you, and you just can't take the pain of a high heel anymore. But if you want to go the whole 9 yards or 9 hours in pumps, YouTube is full of hacks and tips and tricks.

[Avery Trufelman]

Put the heel liner in and it will prevent your shoe from, like, flopping off. You know what I mean?

[Audie Cornish]

MacGyver type fixes for the shoe.

All you need is felt and a glue stick and some glue and some scissors and a glue gun. Remember, guys, do not burn yourself.

[Avery Trufelman]

MacGyver type fixes for the foot.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

All you have to do is tape

[Audie Cornish]

together your third and your fourth toe.

[Avery Trufelman]

I promise this works.

[Audie Cornish]

Classes and tutorials for learning how to walk in heels.

[Colleen Hill]

Practice, practice, practice.

[Avery Trufelman]

And I don't want you girls to

[Colleen Hill]

be afraid about going up and down the stairs in heels.

[Audie Cornish]

It's actually fairly easy in the most extreme cases. People have gotten surgeries to shorten their pinky toes, deaden their nerves, or shoot Botox into their feet, all to circumvent the pain of the high heel.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

You start to feel it at the very bottom of your foot. The ball of your foot has all the nerves. And then it'll start to rub on your heels and rub on the sides, and then suddenly you step down and it's going to be a shooting, stabbing pain. And after that pain, you'll go numb.

[Audie Cornish]

Meet the twins.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

I'm Emily Leung. I'm three minutes older. I'm Jessica Leung. We have a vintage inspired modern comfort

[Roman Mars]

wedding shoe line so that people who are getting married don't have numb feet or aching legs or crooked posture or nerve damage.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

Because it's not just your foot pain, it's your ankle pain. It shortens your calves, it ruins your

[Audie Cornish]

posture, not to mention bunions and hammertoe and Haglund's deformity.

[Roman Mars]

Google these if you want to, but do not. Click image search Some things you just

[Audie Cornish]

can't unsee the Leung twins designed hacks into the shoe and borrowed elements from other kinds of footwear.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

When we actually first started, we Frankensteined the most comfortable aspects of different shoes.

[Audie Cornish]

They started with the toe box, which is basically the very front of the shoe where the toes are. They took the toe box from a salsa dancer's high heel, which tends to be roomier.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

Just to give your foot enough room to be able to swell as you're standing. Every foot will swell throughout the day.

[Audie Cornish]

The whole shoe is really padded and cushioned. And like running shoes, they have arch support built right in.

[Roman Mars]

They're not stilettos for balance purposes. The Liongs made the heel thick where it meets the foot. But for aesthetics, the sturdy heel tapers to a finer point where it meets the floor.

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

You don't want to look at this shoe and think it's a comfort shoe.

[Roman Mars]

Although comfort shoe is relative, we guarantee

[Emily and Jessica Leung]

our shoes are going to be at least an hour more comfortable than all your other shoes.

[Audie Cornish]

For the Leung twins, even the most comfortable high heels still have a time limit. But Martha Davis begs to differ.

[Martha Davis]

I don't have that same feeling. I wear these shoes 12 hours a day, every day, and I know quite a few women who do the same, and I have never had any problems with them.

[Roman Mars]

Although Martha Davis is talking about shoes that she made.

[Martha Davis]

My name is Martha Davis and I'm an industrial designer and I've been working in the footwear industry for the last eight years.

[Roman Mars]

You may be familiar with her industrial design work. Martha Davis designed the round, compact case for the Pill. Like the Leung twins, Davis was wearing high heels before she started designing them. And she couldn't find a high heeled shoe that looked good and didn't cause pain.

[Audie Cornish]

Davis went to Milan to study a process of shoemaking called the Lunati method, which emphasizes measurement and proportionality. And her takeaway is a heel can

[Martha Davis]

be really successful as long as the shoe fits properly. So it's not a question of the height, it's a question of the fit.

[Audie Cornish]

And there's one critical point where the fit really matters.

[Martha Davis]

And it's called the Calzotta Calzata. Calzata.

[Avery Trufelman]

Calzata.

[Martha Davis]

They call it the fitting point. That's the number one critical spot.

[Audie Cornish]

If you look down at your feet, it's kind of right before your foot becomes your toes. So in terms of girth, it's the widest part of your foot. You have to secure that spot and make sure it's not too loose or too tight.

[Roman Mars]

Though Calzada is not the only Significant spot. The toe box could be too shallow and the pitch of the heel could be too steep or not steep enough. There are a number of factors, but it's most important to keep the calzada in proportion to the other numbers for comfort and security.

[Audie Cornish]

The Lunati method allows Martha to play around with sculptural forms and hard materials like steel and gnarled wood. With hardly any padding, though, she keeps

[Roman Mars]

her shoes relatively low.

[Audie Cornish]

But a quote unquote low heel is nothing to scoff at. I wore around 3 inch heels this week just to try it and my

[Roman Mars]

feet are killing me, so why bother?

[Audie Cornish]

Ah, well, it's complicated. I asked Adi Cornish this question too.

The same twinge that makes me feel awkward about discussing high heels is the same thing that makes me think, like, why do I shave my legs? You know what I mean? It's like my whole feminism 101 collegiate self, like, railing at me from the past, being like, you've sold out in every way possible. But there is something to be said for a well made high heel shoe that kind of makes your calves look amazing and puts that like, inappropriate, probably sexy arch in your back. I like that feeling.

[Avery Trufelman]

The heel is so tied up in

[Audie Cornish]

webs of gender and sex and power. Look, I can't speak for everyone, but when it comes to the appeal of the heel, it's actually not very complex psychology. Heels affect the way you move through the world. They change your walk. They make you push your shoulders back, hold your head up and swing your hips. They make you taller, but it's not really about that. I mean, I'm already pretty tall. Actually, in general, height is not as big a factor as you would think.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

People will often say to me, well, women wear high heels today because they want to be as tall as men.

[Roman Mars]

Elizabeth Similhack Again, I counter with that

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

and I say I do understand that reasoning. But there are many, many, many men who would equally benefit from increased height. And so why are they ignoring the potential power of the high heel?

[Roman Mars]

But it wasn't too long ago when heels for guys were kind of cool. Think of the opening scene of Saturday Night Fever. John Travolta is walking through the streets of New York and he's strutting around in high heeled boots. The camera is focused on his shoes. It puts an undeniable swagger in his step.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

Men tried high heels in the 70s and why didn't it stick?

[Audie Cornish]

To condense Elizabeth Semmelhack's research. Men's heels in the 70s were too

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

tied up in subculture, the exoticizing elements kept it on the fringe, and so

[Audie Cornish]

the men's chunky platform went out of style. When power dressing of the 1980s came along, men were in suits and ties. Women were in suits and heels. And they still are.

[Elizabeth Semmelhack]

The high heel could come to mean simply professional power, or it could come to be that female professionals are the new power brokers. But then I would not be surprised if that happens, that men will be as eager to wear high heels as women.

[Roman Mars]

Okay, but only if they can design comfortable ones.

[Avery Trufelman]

Cute, right? It's funny to listen back to, especially because so much has changed in the last dozen years, like for everybody in the world, in profound ways, including, of course, Audie Cornish. So do you remember when we talked about high heels?

[Audie Cornish]

I did, but I did not remember the details of the discussion. So I actually went back and listened to the episodes and I was definitely like, do I still wear heels?

[Avery Trufelman]

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[Audie Cornish]

I still think I see people gravitating towards a heel when the situation calls for it. They just may wear a lower heel. I still wear them even though even on air on TV now.

[Avery Trufelman]

And when you say you do tv, where do you do tv? What are you up to?

[Audie Cornish]

Yes, I am now. My name is Audie Cornish. I am anchor of CNN this Morning morning news show weekdays at 6:00am Eastern and soon to be video podcast with my old friend Ari Shapiro. It's gonna be called Engagement Party.

[Avery Trufelman]

I'm so excited. That's gonna be great.

[Audie Cornish]

I'm excited too so.

[Avery Trufelman]

Well it's interesting that you still had to sit for a second and be like, wait, do I wear heels? Like, it wasn't an immediate knee jerk answer. I mean, how do you think your attitude has changed in the ensuing years?

[Audie Cornish]

I think the difference is, you know, I'm very much about the costume. Does affect who you are in the moment and in the world. Right. Maybe 10 or 15 years ago, when I was covering Congress, I actually wore heels in the hallways of Congress to cover lawmakers. It really felt like you had to look a certain way. Then when I went to npr, I think I still did it because I was trying to be an anchor and I still felt like a little baby reporter. And I was trying to compensate for the fact that I felt not ready for the job that I was in. Now I'm coming into this job, into tv. I don't feel like that. I don't feel like an ingenue. Like, I'm coming pretty fully formed. I'm definitely playing with height more. You know, like, before I'd be like, kitten heel who? Like, why would you do that? And like, now I do have mix it up with heights. I really do think in terms of message, it's like, who am I talking to? What are their expectations? Certain kinds of heels, they're overkill. And for you, I am wearing my slippers. I'm wearing my, like, office flat shoe because I know that you want to have a comfortable conversation. You have a very sort of soothing, calm, like, rich voice. And like, it feels like we're in a private conversation with that voice that you have. And so, like, I'm trying to get myself there, right? And then when it's time to be on, on, especially on tv, where I think there's a little bit of, like, I'll just call it cable news drag. There's sort of like an overly sort of feminized look that you sort of put on. Like you're sort of dressing like a butterfly even though you are delivering not amazing news. You know what I mean? You're usually delivering something that's like, kind of grim. And I think that to get into that headspace, things like heels are helpful.

[Avery Trufelman]

Oh, it's just so interesting to hear that this change in your heel wearing comes from all these changes in your life. From being in multiple mediums and changing to meet the circumstance, from chasing kids. From chasing kids. It's. It's just, it's very interesting. It feels like a perfect case study. And like, this is life intersecting with fashion. And it happens to be in line with this larger trend.

[Audie Cornish]

Yeah.

[Colleen Hill]

Already by maybe 2015, we start to see a shift to lower heels, things that are a little bit more manageable.

[Avery Trufelman]

Colleen Hill of FIT again.

[Colleen Hill]

And I think in general, fashion's always a pendulum. So with those 6 or 7 inch platform heels I was talking about, that's pretty much the most extreme you can go. And so then designers start to think about what else they can do.

[Avery Trufelman]

And of course, the world has changed a lot.

[Audie Cornish]

That's another thing. Since we last talked, I feel like pandemic happens and people got used to their zoom fashion.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah. I'm barefoot.

[Audie Cornish]

People got used to doing comfortable. Shoes are barefoot.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah.

[Audie Cornish]

And that's great.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah. And the other thing is, I do feel like the emphasis on comfort, it almost strikes me as a reflection of the tech industry, which is so built around, like, eliminating pain points, you know, that everything is supposed to be accommodating. Sweat, wicking, full of pockets. Like, our clothes are so supplicant to our needs now. I cannot imagine anyone would go back to it stiletto ever again.

[Colleen Hill]

It does seem unlikely that that will be everyday wear. And also on a darker note, I have a friend who won't wear shoes she cannot run in. And it's really unfortunate, but it actually is a good thing to think about.

[Audie Cornish]

The other day when I was at the White House correspondents dinner and there was an attempted shooting and I was crouched at a table in my gold strap sandal that was a four inch heel, I rethought some things. I was like, I can't run for my life in this situation. So that was a clarifying moment for sure where I, like, berated myself when I got home because I thought, like, oh, who did you think you were wearing those heels? Like, why did you think you were so safe? That was stupid.

[Avery Trufelman]

I mean, do you think this will actually impact your fashion choices going forward?

[Audie Cornish]

Oh, yeah. Do you have to run? But I mean, isn't that living in America? Your brain now has to do all of this gymnastics to compensate for how we are being asked to live and what we are being asked to accept as an inevitable, quote, unquote way of life. And I do think that makes you think differently.

[Avery Trufelman]

Well, it's just so interesting to think about these heel, these like, painful, uncomfortable, precarious shoes as, like, nostalgia for a safer time.

[Audie Cornish]

Well, can I ask you a question before you let me go?

[Avery Trufelman]

Sure.

[Audie Cornish]

Do you wear heels at all or is this just a. What's a scenario where you'd consider it?

[Avery Trufelman]

I'm getting married. I'm Gonna wear heels for my wedding.

[Audie Cornish]

See, that could have been a time that you wore a very cool white sneaker.

[Avery Trufelman]

I could. I could.

[Audie Cornish]

But you're not.

[Avery Trufelman]

I'm not.

[Audie Cornish]

Why?

[Avery Trufelman]

Ah, it just feels like the thing to do. I'm having a very traditional wedding, and I'm, like, wearing white. I'm doing the thing. It's the costume. Like, gotta. I've gotta commit to the bit. Gotta be the bride to see.

[Audie Cornish]

Avery, you're over here asking me all these questions, and here you are making the exact same. Same choice you were committing to the bit. You're like, this is the performance. This is the venue. And not only do other people expect it, but I expect it of myself.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yeah, no, that's a. That's a. Okay. Touche, Audie. It's really. It's really true. And, I mean, that's part of why I wanted to revisit this is. I was like, why am I. Why did I get heels for this? Why am I wearing heels? It's in a backyard. It doesn't make sense. I'm just going to be aerating the lawn.

[Audie Cornish]

You know, you're gonna have to get those little plastic things that go on the heel so they don't sink into the lawn.

[Avery Trufelman]

What? That's a product?

[Audie Cornish]

Yes, Google, that's a product. It's a tiny, flat disc, and it gives the heel this little invisible flat surface for the grass.

[Avery Trufelman]

Okay. I guess people are still MacGyvering their heels after all. Huge thanks to Roman Mars and the whole team at 99% invisible for, you know, giving me my start in radio and basically raising me. I can't believe that story is 12 years old.

[Roman Mars]

Sheesh.

[Avery Trufelman]

Thanks also to Colleen Hill and Audie Cornish. Again, Audie's upcoming video podcast is called Engagement Party. I'm amped for it, and with that, I'm gonna go off and get married now. It's, like, happening this week. I'll have a new episode for you next month. To stay on top of when new episodes come out and to see additional images and links, go to articlesofinterest.substack.com

[Audie Cornish]

Most

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[Roman Mars]

Radiotopia

[Audie Cornish]

from PRX.