Wearing Hair

Summary

Podcast Summary: Articles of Interest – Episode "Wearing Hair"

Host: Avery Trufelman
Release Date: October 11, 2023
Description: Articles of Interest explores the intricacies of what we wear, delving into materials, trends, and the cultural significance of clothing.

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1. Introduction to the Concept of Wearing Hair

The episode begins with Margot Boyer Dry introducing a controversial idea she encountered: creating garments from human hair. Initially skeptical, Margot questions the social viability of such innovations.

• Margot Boyer Dry [00:01]: “I was like, come on, you know why? Because it's gross. Who's gonna buy a sweater made out of human hair? It's just not socially viable.”

Her unnamed colleague acknowledges the unusual nature of Margot’s writing topics, highlighting her reputable contributions to major publications.

• Unnamed Colleague [00:25]: “That is the kind of thing you would write about.”

2. Human Material Loop: A Sustainable Approach

Margot introduces Human Material Loop, a Dutch company founded by Sophia Kohler, which repurposes human hair into textiles. The company argues that utilizing human hair addresses environmental concerns by reducing waste and avoiding animal farming.

• Margot Boyer Dry [01:04]: “Their argument is that humans are responsible for the climate crisis. We are responsible for the solution.”

• Sophia Kohler [01:43]: “We don't need to degrade any soil. We don't pollute any water. We don't use any toxic chemicals to process hair. It's a natural material.”

Sophia emphasizes the environmental benefits, such as minimizing transport emissions by using locally available materials.

• Sophia Kohler [01:50]: “We use locally available materials, so we also cut off an enormous transport emissions from the entire supply chain.”

Margot expresses fascination with public reactions to these human hair products, noting the initial disgust that gradually gives way to curiosity and acceptance.

• Sophia Kohler [02:27]: “There are People like, yeah, hell, yeah. Shave my hair right now. It's all yours. Take it, baby.”

3. Societal Attitudes Toward Hair and Its Uses

The conversation shifts to societal perceptions of hair, contrasting its beauty on the head with the disgust felt when found in drains or used in unconventional jewelry.

• Margot Boyer Dry [07:36]: “We use it on purpose to attract people. You know, we get it done, we get it braided, it's a sign of vitality.”

Emma Tarlow, an anthropologist, provides insight into the cultural and psychological aspects of using human hair in textiles.

• Emma Tarlow [08:10]: “There's an aspect of fear of reducing humans to a textile form. So we're all right about doing that with sheep's wool. We're actually much more ambiguous about doing that with, say, cat hair or dog hair.”

4. Historical Perspectives: Hair as Relics and Mourning Jewelry

Margot discusses historical uses of human hair, particularly in mourning jewelry during the Victorian era. Deborah Lutz, a professor of Victorian literature, elaborates on how hair was used to symbolize mourning and personal connections.

• Deborah Lutz [10:36]: “There are tons of American examples, and there are tons of British examples and French and German.”

Hair relics served as personal mementos, often intricately woven into jewelry to honor loved ones.

• Deborah Lutz [11:02]: “There are these sort of basket weaves and just really strange shapes that could be worn either as proof that you were mourning or grieving for the person who had died.”

5. Designer Alix Bizet: Modern Applications of Human Hair in Fashion

Alix Bizet, a UK-based designer, is featured for her innovative use of diverse human hair textures in fashion. She aims to challenge the hierarchical valuation of different hair types by incorporating Afro, straight, and various textured hairs into her designs.

• Alix Bizet [19:13]: “We have all this kind of talk about what makes Afro hair special, linked black culture. But in fact, Afro hair is hair.”

Alix emphasizes transparency in sourcing hair and respects cultural significance, ensuring that each piece honors the individual contributors.

• Alix Bizet [20:29]: “I think about how do I actually bring the identity of those people, of those different cultures, next to each other, creating this kind of garment of a neighborhood like London or Peckham.”

6. Ethical Considerations and Comparisons to the Wool Industry

The discussion draws parallels between human hair textiles and traditional wool production. Margot and her colleagues explore ethical concerns, labor practices, and the environmental impact of both industries.

They recount a visit to the Queens County Farm Museum, observing humane sheep shearing practices that starkly contrast with the often inhumane conditions of industrial wool farms.

• Margot Boyer Dry [27:22]: “So shearing is important for the sheep's health and well-being. If a sheep is not shorn for several seasons, that sheep will overheat, suffer from skin conditions and mobility issues.”

The group critiques the global wool industry's ethical shortcomings and highlights sustainable practices as exemplified by the museum's approach.

7. Decline of the Wool Industry and Modern Challenges

The conversation delves into the historical decline of the wool industry in the United States, attributing it to economic shifts, overcompetition from synthetic fibers, and cultural changes.

• Unnamed Colleague [33:01]: “We became cow country and cotton country.”

They discuss how myths about wool's discomfort deter modern consumers and the competition from petrochemical-based materials like polyester and nylon.

• Unnamed Participant [35:02]: “You couldn't wash wool, but now you can.”

8. Future Prospects: Embracing Sustainable and Ethical Textiles

Margot and her team contemplate the potential for human hair textiles to offer a sustainable alternative to traditional materials. They recognize the challenges in scaling such innovations ethically but remain optimistic about consumer-driven changes.

• Unnamed Colleague [37:31]: “Although, of course, it's not entirely about a consumer movement. I mean, that helps, but ultimately the products that are available to us are at the hands of so many larger forces...”

They advocate for individual responsibility in making ethical choices, suggesting starting with conscientious consumption and supporting sustainable brands.

9. Conclusion: Reflecting on Material Use and Human Integrity

The episode concludes with a reflection on the deeper implications of using human hair in textiles. Margot emphasizes the importance of considering our values and the ethical dimensions of material consumption.

• Margot Boyer Dry [38:20]: “My main understanding from this research is that people are really afraid of being reduced. Like, if it feels so bad to us to be used in a way that degrades our integrity.”

The hosts encourage listeners to rethink their relationship with materials and to make informed, ethical choices in their wardrobe selections.

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Notable Quotes:

• Margot Boyer Dry [00:01]: “I was like, come on, you know why? Because it's gross. Who's gonna buy a sweater made out of human hair? It's just not socially viable.”

• Sophia Kohler [01:43]: “We don't need to degrade any soil. We don't pollute any water. We don't use any toxic chemicals to process hair. It's a natural material.”

• Deborah Lutz [11:02]: “There are these sort of basket weaves and just really strange shapes that could be worn either as proof that you were mourning or grieving for the person who had died.”

• Alix Bizet [20:29]: “I think about how do I actually bring the identity of those people, of those different cultures, next to each other, creating this kind of garment of a neighborhood like London or Peckham.”

• Margot Boyer Dry [38:20]: “My main understanding from this research is that people are really afraid of being reduced. Like, if it feels so bad to us to be used in a way that degrades our integrity.”

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Additional Resources:

• Margot Boyer Dry's Newsletter: Lorem Ipsum
• Human Material Loop Website: humanmaterialloop.com
• Designer Alix Bizet's Portfolio: alixbizet.com
• Queens County Farm Museum: queensfarm.org
• Wool Education Resource: thewoolchannel.com

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This episode of Articles of Interest offers a provocative exploration of unconventional materials in fashion, urging listeners to consider the ethical and cultural dimensions of what we wear. By juxtaposing historical practices with modern innovations, the hosts illuminate the complex interplay between material use, sustainability, and human values.

Transcript

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So our conversation started around the sweater. I sent you an article that I had found about an organization trying to make garments out of human hair.

[Unnamed Colleague]

What did you think when you first saw the article?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I was like, come on, you know why? Because it's gross. Who's gonna buy a sweater made out of human hair? It's just not socially viable.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And it should be said that that is like, extremely. You like, that is the kind of thing you would write about.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah. I'm Margot Boyer Dry. I write in a bunch of forums and venues.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Margot is being modest. She writes for, like, the New York Times and New York Magazine, the Wall Street Journal and places like that.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So part of my thing is I publish a newsletter called Lorem Ipsum. It, for the most part, just kind of skewers the culture of capitalism and all the things that we try to do to get each other to buy things and partake. Anyway, so. So I had sent you this article about a company making textiles from human hair. You know, right in the nexus of our mutual interest.

[Unnamed Colleague]

What's the argument that they. Why? Why?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Their argument is that humans are responsible for the climate crisis. We are responsible for the solution. The solution that they are focused on is using human hair, removing it from the waste stream and repurposing it for garments. That touches on 1 million progressive points. Animal mistreatment is 1. Why are we farming animals when we could just use this material from the waste stream that humans already produce to harvest hair?

[Sophia Kohler]

We don't need to degrade any soil. We don't pollute any water. We don't use any toxic chemicals to process hair. It's a natural material.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I reached out to them to just kind of be like, are you serious? And they're so, so serious.

[Sophia Kohler]

We use locally available materials, so we also cut off an enormous transport emissions from the entire supply chain.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Okay. So this company is called Human Material Loop. Sophia Kohler founded this company. They are a Dutch company. They, yes, are making an earnest business out of creating textiles of human hair.

[Sophia Kohler]

It's so logical that we could use our own ways. We are humans, the only species that we use an alien material cover our body.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I was really interested in how people react to their products.

[Sophia Kohler]

There are a few tricks or ways that I like to introduce to people when I'm wearing human hair.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

She gets a lot of excitement in life out of going to a party and having people be like, cool sweater.

[Sophia Kohler]

And then once I already feed them the story that there will be the environmental impact, and then they can really see how it looks. There are People like, yeah, hell, yeah. Shave my hair right now. It's all yours. Take it, baby. I'm like, okay. But I do have a scissor with me. So you were serious, right?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Do you want to see a picture of her wearing one of the prototypes?

[Unnamed Participant]

Yeah.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Oh, that's it.

[Unnamed Colleague]

So it looks well, huh? Okay. It looks like a. It looks like a beautiful sweater. And the other thing, this was a question that I had. It's so obviously blonde.

[Sophia Kohler]

It is dyed to blondes. Because I didn't like to put some humor here and there. I've seen some in the Netherlands. I'm not Dutch, but I live here, not Hungarian.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

She says they can work with any hair color, texture, length. Although human material loop didn't want to share, understandably, their proprietary processing technology. But what I understand is that we shouldn't think of it as individual strands of long hair being woven together. It's like a kind of amalgam having been processed together in some way that ends up getting us to this kind of yarn, like, texture. And they're actually. They're not producing their own garments so much. Their model is to produce the textile, and then they'll partner with other people who create the designs. And so, yeah, the stage they're at is kind of one by one, winning people over with the idea of the benefits. And people initially are really grossed out. Understandably.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Very understandably. And yet it seems part and parcel of this banal alternative future. Like, literally a future made of alternatives, one where we are supposed to eat crickets and tend to our rock gardens and wear human hair. I don't know, man. I really don't know if I can get behind that last one. Like, is this really the way forward or even a way forward? Why don't we wear human hair after the break?

[Jody Avargan]

We're living through a pretty rocky present. Maybe the past can help. Check out Radiotopia's this Day, hosted by Jody Avargan with historians Nicole Hemmer and Kelly Carter Jackson. Three times a week, they take you into one story from that day in U.S. history. From Eisenhower's weird vendetta against squirrels, to the time we accidentally dropped a nuclear bomb on North Carolina, to the women who fought against the right to vote. It's smart, surprising, and actually fun. This is a big moment for history. Next year is America's 250th birthday, and, well, look around. There's lots of history being made. Subscribe to this day for your historical perspective, wherever you get your podcasts, as well as YouTube and Instagram.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Growing out my Hair, which I've been doing since the pandemic, has felt like a long journey. In fact, my buddy Vivian Leigh once teased me that I started growing out my hair because I don't have a pet. And it's true. Sometimes my hair does feel like my pet. What can I say? I love to spoil her. The way that I'm going to treat her this summer is by using Nutrafol. It's the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. Anything truly worthwhile takes time and effort. And with Nutrafol, see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair and less shedding in just three to six months. We all dream of a pet who doesn't shed. While many supplements rely solely on ingredient studies, Nutrafol clinically tests final formulations to ensure their efficacy. In a clinical study, 90% of women saw overall improvement in their hair after taking Nutrafol women's hair growth supplement for six months. And it's not just for women. Everybody can enjoy Nutrafol. For a limited time. Nutrafol is offering listeners of articles of interest $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code articles spelled N U T R a f o l.com promo code articles that's nutrafol.com promo code article Articles of interest is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Why are. Do you know why we're so grossed out by hair? Because we love it on the head.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

We love it on the head. It's beautiful. We. You just came over and the first thing I said was, your hair looks great.

[Alix Bizet]

Thank you.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

We use it on purpose to attract people. You know, we get it done, we get it braided, it's a sign of vitality. But on the other hand, losing hair is a sign of the opposite of vitality. It's decay, it's death. Think about it. When your hair looks great in the mirror and then you wash it and it in the drain and then it's disgusting all of a sudden, right?

[Emma Tarlow]

There's a quite sort of visceral response. Some people are literally can't touch it. They're just all quite freaked out by it. And it's almost like a kind of human droppings you know, because hair is both a body part and at the same time, it becomes this body product.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I found this scholar named Emma Tarlow, who you knew about already. She's an anthropologist focused on material culture and has done some very focused work on ha and the hair trade and how we treat hair.

[Emma Tarlow]

I think there's an aspect of fear of reducing humans to a textile form. So we're all right about doing that with sheep's wool. We're actually much more ambiguous about doing that with, say, cat hair or dog hair. And in fact, in Europe, there's a ban on the sale of products made with cat or dog hair. But not really, but human hair's all right.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So, yeah, people forever have been trading in human hair. Actually, people sell their hair for wigs. And that's not all to make ends meet. For centuries, on many different continents, people have saved their hair from their brushes and collected it over time. And they'll make a hairball over the course of a year that ends up being worth like a dollar. But someone will go door to door and buy it from them.

[Emma Tarlow]

There are people wandering around, and I met many of them both in India, in Myanmar, they're also in China.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Who.

[Emma Tarlow]

Who will go door to door and collect up that hair?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

It's just another. Another thing that people have done to make a little bit of extra money because they need it, because hair is.

[Emma Tarlow]

Incredibly strong and it's sort of heat resistant, so it's an incredibly good material for load bearing and for heat. So, for example, China has been exporting waste hair for use making oil filters so you could crush oil seeds through a filter made from human hair. So, in fact, Chinese waste hair was being imported in the US in the 1940s precisely for this kind of use.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Actually, I learned from Emma Tarlow there was a push in World War I Germany for women to donate their hair to engineering projects, and things like the.

[Emma Tarlow]

Making of rope and filters were quite common.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

But now we're allowed to live in this very, very clean culture. You know, like, hair gets to be dirty to us, not precious or useful.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right, exactly.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

And I think that also reinforces our feeling of aversion toward things like hair in the drain or wearing a hair bracelet or a pendant with some hair in it.

[Deborah Lutz]

Well, hair work in the 19th century, generally human hair could be cut from a corpse or from a living person, and it was turned into a piece of jewelry.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I also spoke to Deborah Lutz, a professor of Victorian literature at University of Louisville in Kentucky. So she spends a lot of time with mourning Jewelry, which is jewelry made out of people's hair.

[Deborah Lutz]

There are tons of American examples, and there are tons of British examples and French and German.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

You might have, like, an intricately braided bracelet or watch band or a pendant.

[Deborah Lutz]

But the best examples are these just strangely woven things, and you don't even know what they are at first. You look at them and you think, what's the this made out of? I mean, there are these sort of basket weaves and just really strange shapes that could be worn either as proof that you were mourning or grieving for the person who had died, if it came from a dead person's body, or as proof that you loved the person whose hair it was.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Avery. People would wear pendants made of their secret lover's hair. So you would have. Hot, right? Disgusting hot.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Oh.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Oh, Lord Byron sent his girlfriend his pubic hair, and she sense, I'm back, totally fine. Not a problem.

[Deborah Lutz]

It's actually kind of a neurotic thing, if you think about it. I mean, you're wearing, like, a piece of body of the one you want to sleep with.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah, it was very fashionable. Big trend at the time.

[Deborah Lutz]

Hair jewelry was so popular that you might not even have someone's hair to wear, and then you're like, oh, my God, what do I do?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

It became so popular, actually, Deborah Lutz told me that things would be made out of horse hair.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Like knockoffs.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah, exactly.

[Deborah Lutz]

It was dyed horsehair. So horsehair was also really popular in the 19th century for jewelry. So, yeah, no, it definitely went in and out of fashion over the last 300 years at least.

[Unnamed Colleague]

What happened? Why were we so okay with hair and now we're so not.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah, so many things happened. So part of why we were so actively into it at the time, there was still this fascination with physical manifestations of miracle.

[Deborah Lutz]

Those are the first relics, like locks of hair. Were the saints relics.

[Emma Tarlow]

Hair relics like the hair of the Virgin Mary or within Islam, a hair from the prophet's beard or hair of the Buddha, or all these very sacred hairs also work on this principle that you can get close to the presence of the being through being close to their hair.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yes. Charlo has a lot to say about this.

[Emma Tarlow]

So this is the principle of sympathetic magic, or contagious magic, as it was called by Victorian anthropologist James Henry Frazer. But that belief seems to be very widespread in many cultures.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

That was a major fixation, and society had recently secularized by the time the Victorian era rolled around. And so that interest in relics transformed to become a more secular interest in relics. Of people that were still around and who they actually had in their lives.

[Deborah Lutz]

That kind of sense of the divinity of things that touch the body past into celebrities, especially with Queen Victoria. There's so much hair and hair jewelry connected to Queen Victoria and her family, and then it passed into just regular people. So you keep things like a cup that your wife drank out of before she died. I mean, that's a kind of. A kind of personal, individualistic relic.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So that's why hair jewelry became popular. But the. So the reason that it was so popular then and we find it so gross now, Deborah Lutz says, is a shift in attitude toward death. So hair can be so many things. Right? On the head, it's vitality. Off the head, it's death and decay. In the Victorian era, and before that, people saw death all the time.

[Deborah Lutz]

Like, your neighbors might just come over and watch you die.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

It was normal to die at home. It was normal to die younger. Yeah. Just having a deeper familiarity with death and therefore with parts of the human body, I think really made hair okay.

[Deborah Lutz]

There was a long period where death was seen as natural, and sometimes it was just seen as a changing of states. If you went to heaven or you went into an afterlife, the moments at.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Which that attitude has really shifted have been world wars, World War I.

[Deborah Lutz]

A lot of people died for what was essentially no reason. I think a lot of people lost their faith. And then there was a sense that death was not natural anymore. Maybe we could keep people alive forever. We can hook them up to machines. We can take them to hospitals. We can try really hard to keep them alive. These days, I think we think of it as a kind of a failure that that person died.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

And now death is sanitized and medicalized, and we just don't see it.

[Deborah Lutz]

Death for us is kind of shameful.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

It's scary, and we're really rattled by it. Yeah, morning jewelry went out of fashion.

[Deborah Lutz]

Something beautiful that was connected to the body became something that connected to decay and death.

[Unnamed Colleague]

So hair gets gross because of our attitude shift towards death.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yes, exactly. I'm just going to repeat this one more time. On the head, it shows us we're alive. Off the head, it shows us we're dead. When hair is taken from one person, it retains their essence, and then in aggregate, it kind of dehumanizes. Right. When we get a bunch of different people's hair together, it reminds us that we are animals. And that's, I think, where the sweater becomes uncomfortable.

[Sophia Kohler]

We are collaborating with hairdressers and hair salons in The Netherlands, and we are also expanding to other European cities. And then hopefully soon enough it will have a global system to collaborate with hair salons.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I was really trying to push human material loop on some of the ethical concerns.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Was she worried about that?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

She. Oh, I mean, she is, yeah, Queen of ethical concerns.

[Sophia Kohler]

We really don't want to see any human hair farms in the future. So that's why we are also setting up a blockchain technology to track the entire supply chain back from the source of the hair salons to the final production facility.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Who's the hair coming from? How are they being paid? Yeah, that concerns me. What stops us from setting up hair farms?

[Emma Tarlow]

To be honest, it's an ethical minefield for various reasons. So there is a, you know, a big market for human hair for making wigs and extensions. So already, in a sense, global commoditization of it already exists.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So Tarlow knows a ton about the modern wig industry.

[Emma Tarlow]

On the whole, the hair trade does rely on two things. One, people having long hair to sell and the other, poverty. Because it generally in situations of poverty that people are more likely to sell their hair.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Tarlow says that's a very slow process that is not going to become anyone's primary source of income.

[Emma Tarlow]

It's a very indirect and long winded way of producing things.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

She says that it is impossible to grow enough hair to satisfy the demand. It simply doesn't grow fast enough. There aren't enough people willing to grow it expressly for that purpose.

[Emma Tarlow]

Obviously synthetic hair is now very sophisticated. So you can buy synthetic hair much cheaper.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Also, when you think about it, what would we do on a hair farm? We would just be like free room and board, you know? Yeah, yeah. You could just as soon start a national program of, you know, feeding people omega 3s and harvesting their hair. But I mean, there's also a lot of trauma associated with that, which many people I spoke to, including Emma Tarlow, noted.

[Emma Tarlow]

The sight of a mass of hair on the ground immediately will evoke the Holocaust because there was a collecting of the hair of people in camps and the opening up of Auschwitz. They found hair that had been used for making textiles.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Prisoners have had their heads compulsorily shaped. Strictures around hair have been used to oppress specifically black people in America and Europe. So yeah, hair has a lot of traumatic charge.

[Alix Bizet]

Hair was a way to remove dignity from people and it's been used for actually talking about people as non human turn into materials, let's be honest about that.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Which brings us to a designer named Alix Bizet. Alix. She is Oui.

[Alix Bizet]

She.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

But she also lives in the uk. All these people live in the uk. So Alix makes one off garments out of also human hair.

[Alix Bizet]

Yes. My mom is from the French Francine Guadeloupe and my dad is from Paris.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So she grew up with the messaging that Afro hair was other.

[Alix Bizet]

We keep talking about Afro hair as is something which is not normal, like shampoo.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

She said shampoo for white people would be labeled normal shampoo, as if other shampoo wasn't.

[Alix Bizet]

We have all this kind of talk about what makes Afro hair special, linked black culture. But in fact, Afro hair is hair.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Afro hair is hair. Everyone's hair is hair. And she uses different hair from different people in order to kind of evoke the togetherness of urban existence.

[Unnamed Colleague]

That's beautiful.

[Alix Bizet]

My whole spectrum is looking at human hair as a diversity material. So not looking at just like Caucasian straight hair, but from its diverse textures.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So there are hierarchies in the hair market.

[Unnamed Colleague]

What's most in demand?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Guess.

[Unnamed Colleague]

White hair.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah, White people's hair for sure. Like straight hair.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Blonde.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Blonde, yeah. Mainly for scarcity, they say. I mean, people love the label of Euro hair.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's called Euro hair.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

And Alix, in her work, she is trying to not place hierarchical value on the different ethnicities of hair.

[Alix Bizet]

Afro curly, it could be also dye. It could be also bleached hair.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It.

[Alix Bizet]

So I think about how do I actually bring the identity of those people, of those different cultures, next to each other, rubbing on each other, creating this kind of garment of a neighborhood like London or Pekham.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah. Alix identifies the people who've donated the hair. So their identity lives on in the piece, which is different from anyone else. Because we like to forget that we're human when we amalgamate hair. And she's saying, no. The whole point is that we're all human and we're honoring our togetherness. So let's name the people who contributed.

[Alix Bizet]

I saw that people often don't really care what happened to the hair. When I was asking hairdressers, and often the hairdressers talk to the clients, say, is it okay if the hair is donated to this designer? People were like, yeah, you can take it. But they were not asking me really what I was doing with it, but talking to Afro barbers or Afro hairdressers, it was another reaction. Because hair, it's really linked to the dignity of the person. But also there is an aspect of voodoo that in certain communities you could actually bring bad Luck to the person or bring what I say bad juju to someone. I try the best I can. I try. But it's really important to, I think, to bring transparency about this idea of where the hair is from.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

How long does hair have to be to work with? Could you work with, like, beard clippings? Yeah, I could.

[Alix Bizet]

I work with, like, a barber, and he gave me really short hair, men's hair, really short. And I worked with it well.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So she adapts her technique to the kind of hair she has, rather than selecting kinds of hair for the garments that she wants to make.

[Alix Bizet]

But I use also a different technique. So I've done jacket. I've done hoodies. I've done underwear. I've done socks.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

But then look at these things. Whoa. Yeah. And some of it is hanging loose. Like, we've got curls hanging off of this felted vest.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's really intense.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

It's really intense.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Does she think it's, like, a viable way we could dress ourselves in the future?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Alix is making no arguments for replacing our current textile industry with human hair garments. She's not necessarily making her pieces to be worn. She's using hair to make us think about society.

[Alix Bizet]

Because when you look at it from it's been on someone's head, I treat it a bit differently. So, for example, I could think about treatment, which is force the hair into this kind of production line, the same way we manufactured wool. But if we think about wood and how it's been today, like, disposable, like, you can just buy a wood jumper, and if it doesn't, well, you don't like it anymore, you can just dispose it. But there's an animal life, and this same idea when it comes to human bring even more attention because it's human. What kind of value do we give.

[Unnamed Colleague]

To this material after, like, doing all this research? How did it make you feel about the Human Material Loop project?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I think it's important for us to have this extreme example so that we have to actually think about how we feel in response so that we can think about our values and pursue them accordingly. Right.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Well, one of the interesting things that was fascinating about this is you got me thinking, and human material loop got me thinking of, like, well, what are we actually trying to replace? Why is this better than wool after the break? What is really so different about wearing another animal's hair? The main question for all of this is the extraction question that everyone keeps coming back to is, like, how can you do this ethically if you're going to harvest Hair. How do you do it ethically? And so we were like, well, then how do you do this with wool? Are we even doing this well with animals? And we reached out to all these farms, even alpaca farms, and we were like, can we watch how you do this? And they were like, no. So for lack of other options, can you say where we went?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

The Queen's Farm Museum. Real field trippy.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's like, I can't believe we're in Queens right now.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

They've got shelter, They've got vegetables. It's still got, like, the old Dutch farmhouse on it. And they have all kinds of wonderful educational programming, including the annual sheep shearing festival, which you and I attended together this year.

[Unnamed Colleague]

We're, like, the only childless people here.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I've never seen a sheep being shorn before, have you?

[Unnamed Colleague]

I don't think I have either. What did you think watching the sheep get sheared?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

What an experience. Avery.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Oh, my God, Margo. Look how fluffy they are. Oh, my God.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

The sheep were visibly nervous in advance because they were being penned and brought to a man who was going to do things to them.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah, there's a struggle.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Oh, the sheep is getting fully dragged by its collar. Some wrestling. Okay. Sheep is down.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Sheep down. Once the initial cut was made, it was really interesting how the sheep would just be like. And relax.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Okay. And now it's just like a floppy polar bear. Look at it. Belly out, legs splayed, Just this really, really relaxed posture.

[Unnamed Participant]

There's this spot on the sheep's butt. And if you sit them, like, you could even have the most rambunctious ram. But if you sit them on this spot on their butt, they just go into a trance. It's the coolest thing.

[Unnamed Colleague]

This author, Clara Parks, she's sort of like a God in wool circles, and so skilled shearer.

[Unnamed Participant]

Part of their training is, like, how you position the animal to get them on that spot so that they can calm down and relax.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

So this very masterful man would go segment by segment.

[Unnamed Colleague]

He's, like, bending the sheep over his knee.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Like, the sheep is like putty removing this wool.

[Unnamed Colleague]

He's working so fast.

[Unnamed Participant]

The goal is to do it as quickly as possible. The longer you protract the process, the more stressful it is for them.

[Unnamed Colleague]

There he is.

[Unnamed Participant]

Oh, so cute.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

And then the sheep would just be so free. It really does just look reborn. It would get up and, like, bolt around. Bye. And feel fresh and just be relieved. Be like, thank you. Thank you. Whoa.

[Unnamed Colleague]

1012 pounds of wool. That make two sweaters. So sheep used to be able to shed on their own and now they.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Can'T because we bred them out of it.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah, well, does that mean, like, we.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Shouldn'T fucking have sheep then?

[Unnamed Colleague]

I mean, should we have pets? It's the same with any animal.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

I don't know. Let me give you an extreme example. The bulldog, right? They can't give birth on their own.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah, exactly. But then, like, should they not exist? Like, they're here. So the thing we need to shave them, it's almost like human hair where it has to be cut anyway.

[Unnamed Participant]

So I think it's a moral responsibility to find good uses for this material that sheep just willingly grow and need to have removed.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Okay, why shear sheep? Shearing is important for the sheep's health and well being. If a sheep is not shorn for several seasons, that sheep will overheat, suffer from skin conditions and mobility issues, and be weighed down by excess pounds of wool.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Something that Clara said is, she was like, I hate when vegans say they don't wear wool.

[Unnamed Participant]

It's more cruel not to use this material.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Like we have bred them to the point where, like, this is already a byproduct being made.

[Unnamed Participant]

Many long years ago, the really primitive sheep would shed in the spring and humans would pull the wool off as they were shedding and they would use it to make clothing. And then you have the industrial revolution and you have this desire to scale that production. So over time they started selectively breeding sheep. It all started with Robert Bakewell's experiments.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Bakewell was an agriculturalist who sort of created the idea of livestock breeding. And didn't you say Darwin was inspired by Bakewell? Yeah, yeah.

[Unnamed Participant]

See, everything comes back to sheep. And so over time we bred, they call them improved breeds. And that's basically where merino came from or Rambouillet or any of these contemporary breeds that we use for clothing or even for carpets. So that's where now most modern sheep, we have to remove their wool for them. And it's really kind of cool. You think about all the things that we have figured out, how to automate and yet removing wool from sheep is still a completely manual process. Any sweater that you see, any wool insulation, that wool was removed by human hands.

[Unnamed Colleague]

I think it's. So all these questions that we have about hair and like, how can we be sure that it was made in a way that was fair and good? Like if you apply all the questions that we had about human hair to sheep, all the same questions apply. We saw the answers, we saw a Man shear the sheep. The sheep were happy. Everyone was happy in this, like, local farm. It was all great and it produced this the of part product. It's like, oh, well, you can do it.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Yeah, it was really lovely. It was also pretty dark to hear that that is so far from the norm because very few people know how to do it like this anymore.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's true. This idyllic scenario that Margot and I witnessed on the farm is, in fact, so rare. This is not what most industrial scale wool production looks like now. In fact, that is often incredibly brutal and bloody and very inhumane, which is probably why no other farms would let us watch them on shearing day. It's usually not like this.

[Unnamed Participant]

I know I get uptight watching shearings.

[Unnamed Colleague]

But looking at this very special case study, it proved that it could be done. That the yarn that the Queens County Farm Museum sold at the gift shop was made in a way that was mutually beneficial. It could be done.

[Unnamed Participant]

I think people don't give sheep enough credit because they very early on figured out, if I stay close to these strange tall things, they're going to feed me, they're going to make sure that I always have water and they're going to protect me from predators. They're prey animals and they've always been prey animals. Humans had nothing to do with that. They've always been prey animals.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And they are actually so conducive to the factory model because they are herd animals. They love to be in a flock. You know, they love being put together. They don't need all this space.

[Unnamed Participant]

And so I feel like people are assuming a far greater naivete and ignorance on the behalf of the sheep. They figured out this symbiotic relationship that we've had for thousands of years. Like, hey, this is actually a pretty decent deal. And so, like, at this point, it's kind of a moral responsibility to keep up our end of the deal.

[Unnamed Colleague]

My main takeaway is like, consider the sheep. No, they're amazing. I mean, yes, I do think there's a world where we can learn to embrace human hair and use the material that we're already making. But in another way, wool. Seems we already did that. You know, we already changed this animal fundamentally to have this mutually beneficial relationship with us.

[Unnamed Participant]

They were, of course, the second animal that humans domesticated after dogs, really, but we're not.

[Unnamed Colleague]

We're not using it.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Hmm.

[Unnamed Participant]

The state of the American wool industry. It is a fraction of what it was. It's tiny.

[Unnamed Colleague]

There are a few remaining wool farms in the US but very, very Very, very, very, very, very.

[Unnamed Participant]

A couple of things happened. There were the range wars in which the cattlemen managed to head off the shepherds or farmers, wool producers, from having access to the federal lands.

[Unnamed Colleague]

The grazing, we chose the cow. We chose the cowboy, not the shepherd. Isn't that fascinating? And so we love the idea of the cowboy.

[Unnamed Participant]

The cowboys, it was multiple men kind of roaming together with their cows and sitting around at night. But the shepherd, there would be one and a guard dog for like 5,000 sheep. And they would be alone up in the mountains for months.

[Unnamed Colleague]

We became cow country and cotton country.

[Unnamed Participant]

But it really, right before 1910, 1920, New Mexico could not produce enough wool to meet the demand. The demand was so high, but they couldn't because they were fighting over the rangelands with the kettle people. And they had more economic clout and power. And they managed to create all this incredible mythology that's still out there about how sheep are the worst grazers, but sheep are actually selective grazers. They don't wipe everything clear. But the cattlemen won. There's a whole kind of economic thing going on. But it was also racism at play because a lot of the shepherds at that point were coming from Spain, Portugal, a lot of Portuguese shepherds. And so it became, you know, these.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Foreigners are coming, but the place where wool survives. Actually, the one thing that's sort of keeping the American wool industry more or less afloat is Major League baseball.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Huh.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Do you want to guess how I guess?

[Margot Boyer Dry]

The uniforms. No. Wool. Do we stuff baseballs?

[Unnamed Participant]

Yes, because inside every Major League baseball, the core is wool. Why?

[Unnamed Colleague]

They're full of American made wool. And that was a contract that was actively made to keep the wool industry alive.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

And we never see it.

[Unnamed Colleague]

America, it's not like people don't want wool or don't wear wool. Right.

[Unnamed Participant]

Well, I think we've done an extremely good job of making them think that wool is old, it's heavy, it's musty, it's scratchy, it's impossible to care for. Wool can't be washed. In the old original first washing machines.

[Unnamed Colleague]

You couldn't wash wool, but now you can.

[Unnamed Participant]

Oh, you totally can. But the strings that are pulling a lot of the anti wool movement, it actually goes back to the petrochemical industry. So post World War II, where you have this military industrial complex, that's where acrylic and nylon and polyester kind of all evolved. So you have that selling point, this garment that you can throw in that machine over there. And the sweaters were so inexpensive because it was Just from an oil drum. To compete economically, companies started using cheaper grades of wool. And those cheaper grades tend to be of a thicker diameter that has the greater likelihood of producing a prickle.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

Ah, yeah, yeah. Like, old wool is scratchy and feels gross.

[Unnamed Participant]

And that's another myth that we have to break through. There's some merino that's softer than cashmere. One of the coolest things about sheep is that they grow different types of fibers, so there's different breeds for different needs.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Everything that we talked about with human hair is so applicable to sheep hair. And these sheep came from somewhere and from a lineage, and they're. Wool is a certain way. And the shearer even said, like, you have to shear different sheep in different.

[Unnamed Participant]

Ways and you need to understand the family that it comes from.

[Unnamed Colleague]

That is not to say that you have to go out and replace your whole wardrobe with wool and understand all the differences between merino sheep and Corydale sheep. No. Especially because for all the aforementioned barriers, wool can be expensive. But Clara Parks would like you to just know that there are lots of different versions of wool out there and that it's surprisingly versatile, and maybe you can just give it a try.

[Unnamed Participant]

Start with one article of clothing, like a nice super fine merino T shirt or undershirt or something like that, and just wear it for a couple days and see how you feel.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And if you'd like to know where to start and where you can get some ethically shorn wool, Claire's got you.

[Unnamed Participant]

Go to thewoolchannel.com yeah, I try to highlight who is doing cool stuff. But bigger businesses are not going to invest in wool unless they know people will buy it. And so there needs to be a bigger consumer movement.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Although, of course, it's not entirely about a consumer movement. I mean, that helps, but ultimately the products that are available to us are at the hands of so many larger forces, from world wars to the petrochemical industry, to the cattle industry, to land use agreements that were made centuries ago. And so it makes sense to me that we'd turn to ourselves, that people would be like, fuck it. I am so tired of being so connected to this entirely messed up world and to this entirely messed up supply chain and to all the history and all the politics. And I just want to use hair from my own species. And maybe we will. Who knows? Maybe we will. But it wouldn't take us away from a lot of the same decisions we already face.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

My main understanding from this research is that people are really afraid of being reduced. Like, if. If it feels so bad to us to be used in a way that degrades our integrity. That's maybe something to keep in mind when we use other resources to produce the things that we need.

[Unnamed Colleague]

So might as well start now. Start by considering each sweater as though it were made with the hair of your beloved.

[Margot Boyer Dry]

There's a portrait painted on the things we love.

[Unnamed Colleague]

This episode of Articles of Interest was reported by Margot Boyerdry. Her newsletter can be found at Lorem Ipsum wtf? It was produced mixed by me. And if you want to find out more about companies that are doing wools really well and see some pictures pictures of some of the human hair garments, there are some more that we didn't even get to mention on the show. Check out articlesofinterest. Substack. Com.

[Deborah Lutz]

Radiotopia.

[Unnamed Participant]

From PRX.