Summary of "Ascend - The Great Books Podcast" Episode: Dante's Inferno Ep. 5: Cantos 18-25 with Noah and Gabriel of CLT
Podcast Information:
- Title: Ascend - The Great Books Podcast
- Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan
- Guests: Noah Tyler (CFO, Classic Learning Test) and Gabriel Blanchard (Staff Writer, Classic Learning Test)
- Episode Title: Dante's Inferno Ep. 5: Cantos 18-25 with Noah and Gabriel of CLT
- Release Date: April 1, 2025
Introduction
Deacon Harrison Garlick opens the episode by welcoming listeners to "Ascend," a weekly podcast dedicated to exploring the Great Books that have shaped Western civilization. He introduces the focus of the day: Cantos 18-25 of Dante's Inferno, specifically delving into the first seven pits of the eighth circle of Hell, where souls guilty of simple fraud are punished.
He introduces the guests, Noah Tyler and Gabriel Blanchard from the Classic Learning Test (CLT), commending their work in restoring education in America.
Understanding the Classic Learning Test (CLT)
Noah Tyler explains CLT as a reading, writing, and mathematics test rooted in classical texts, akin to the SAT but with a deeper emphasis on reasoning and understanding great works like Dante and Homer. Gabriel Blanchard adds that CLT offers resources such as blog series on liberal arts topics, author profiles, and practice tests aligned with classical education models.
Notable Quote:
Noah Tyler [02:47]: "The classic learning test is a test of reading and writing and mathematics... rooted in the classics."
Personal Connections to Dante's Inferno
Both Noah and Gabriel share their personal journeys with Dante's Inferno. Noah recounts his initial encounter with Dante during college, his involvement in an Anglo Catholic reading group, and his continued appreciation for the multi-dimensional aspects of Dante's work.
Notable Quote:
Noah Tyler [07:04]: "I ended up in an Anglo Catholic church with Gabriel... love the multi-dimensional aspects of Dante."
Gabriel describes his high school classical education experience, his fascination with Dante despite his earlier skepticism, and how reading Dante contributed to his conversion to Roman Catholicism.
Notable Quote:
Gabriel Blanchard [08:58]: "I went out and bought a copy of Purgatorio, fell in love with that... rarely found another author as profound."
Exploring the Eighth Circle of Hell
Deacon Garlick provides a mapping of Hell's structure, distinguishing between Upper Hell (sins of incontinence like lust and wrath) and Lower Hell (malice, including violence). He emphasizes that the eighth and ninth circles focus on fraud, with the eighth known as "simple fraud."
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [15:28]: "The eighth circle, the fifth ditch, the eighth circle... those condemned for simple fraud."
Noah Tyler and Gabriel Blanchard discuss the severity of fraud in Dante's hierarchy, noting that fraud represents a corruption of intellect, a higher faculty of humanity, making it a profound deviation from divine intent.
Notable Quote:
Noah Tyler [17:47]: "Fraud... is worse than the worst deviation from the highest gift that God has given."
Detailed Analysis of Specific Sins in Cantos 18-25
Canto 18: Seducers and Panderers
The episode delves into the punishment of seducers and panderers, explaining how their corruption of intellect leads them to deceive others for personal gain.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [21:49]: "The contrapasso here is the introduction of specific punishments... reflecting their deceptive nature."
Noah Tyler highlights the difference between crimes of passion versus calculated deceit, emphasizing the malicious intent behind flattery used to manipulate others.
Canto 19: Simony
Simony involves the selling of church offices, a direct corruption of spiritual authority for personal gain.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [29:07]: "Simony... is the sale of church offices... They pocketed coins for church goods."
The discussion touches on historical figures like Pope Boniface VIII, whom Dante condemns for misusing ecclesiastical power.
Canto 20: Sorcerers and Fortune Tellers
The punishment of sorcerers involves grotesque body transformations, symbolizing their twisted manipulation of truth.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [34:19]: "The sorcerers have their heads twisted backwards... reflecting their distorted perception of reality."
Canto 21: Grafters
Grafters are punished by being stuck in tar, symbolizing their "sticky fingers" and inability to let go of corruption.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [85:32]: "They're engaged in corrupt activities... their punishment is being continually stuck in tar."
Canto 22-25: Thieves and Multilayered Punishments
The discussion moves to the punishment of thieves, characterized by serpentine transformations and eternal suffering. The contrapasso here ties theft to the loss of personal integrity, with thieves physically manifesting their moral decay.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [127:39]: "The contrapasso... denies the thief's integrity, mixing their humanity with serpentine forms."
Gabriel Blanchard connects the punishment to Roman concepts of property, where theft is seen as an existential violation beyond mere possession.
Themes and Insights
Contrapasso: Punishment Reflecting Sin
The hosts explore contrapasso, Dante's principle where the punishment mirrors the sin, serving as a moral lesson.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [14:02]: "Each contrapasso is supposed to be pedagogical... teaching us about the sin."
Modern Parallels to Dante's Sins
Noah and Gabriel draw parallels between Dante's depiction of fraud and modern societal issues like political corruption, mutual flattery in workplaces, and the erosion of truth through language manipulation.
Notable Quote:
Noah Tyler [38:30]: "Mutual flattery creates artificial realities that envelop entire communities, leading to incompetency."
The Role of Intellect in Sin
A recurring theme is the corruption of intellect—how fraud deviates from humanity's highest faculty, making it particularly heinous.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [19:22]: "Fraud is a corruption of the intellect... aligning with the divine will is essential."
Virgil as a Guide
The hosts discuss Virgil's role as a symbol of human wisdom guiding Dante through Hell. They ponder Virgil's knowledge limitations, especially regarding Christian theology, and how his pagan perspective influences his interpretations.
Notable Quote:
Deacon Harrison Garlick [80:24]: "Virgil seems aware but doesn't fully grasp the Christian truths, highlighting the tension between pagan wisdom and divine revelation."
Notable Quote:
Gabriel Blanchard [84:21]: "Virgil has a knowledge that is disproportionate to him... he's been commended by an angel to command the gates."
Critical Observations on Sin Placement
A discussion arises regarding the placement of sins within the eighth circle, questioning why certain sins like simony are ranked differently from others such as political graft.
Notable Quote:
Gabriel Blanchard [127:39]: "The contrapasso ties theft to the loss of personal integrity, making it a profound moral lesson."
Deacon contemplates whether the structure aligns logically with the severity of sins, acknowledging that while some placements may seem counterintuitive, they serve deeper theological and moral purposes.
Conclusion
Deacon Garlick wraps up the episode by thanking Noah Tyler and Gabriel Blanchard for their insightful discussions. He previews the next episode, which will cover Cantos 26-31 and conclude the exploration of the eighth circle of Hell, featuring Dr. Donald Prudlow from the University of Tulsa.
Listeners are encouraged to visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for additional resources, including a reader's guide to Dante's Inferno.
Final Thoughts: This episode provides an in-depth analysis of Cantos 18-25 of Dante's Inferno, highlighting the complex nature of fraud as depicted by Dante. Through engaging discussions, the hosts and guests explore the moral theology behind each punishment, drawing connections to modern societal issues and emphasizing the enduring relevance of Dante's work in understanding human vice and virtue.