Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Episode Summary: Purgatorio—The Earthly Paradise (Cantos 28–31) with Dr. Michael West

Date: March 24, 2026
Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan
Guest: Dr. Michael West, Assistant Professor of English, University of Dallas

Episode Overview

In this episode, Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan are joined by Dante scholar Dr. Michael West to explore Cantos 28–31 of Dante’s Purgatorio. The discussion focuses on Dante’s arrival in the Earthly Paradise (Eden) at the summit of Mount Purgatory, the mysterious figures of Matilda and Beatrice, the deep symbolism of the rivers Lethe and Eunoe, and the transition from natural to supernatural virtue. Drawing from poetic, theological, and allegorical themes, the hosts and their guest offer a rich analysis of how Dante constructs the drama of spiritual healing and ascent, culminating in the climactic confrontation with Beatrice.

Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Dr. Michael West’s Dante & Shakespeare Scholarship

• [02:55] Dr. West: Shares his research interest in how literature puzzles and transforms its readers, and in the challenges of education—how great texts like Dante’s shape human flourishing.
• Favorite Shakespeare Play: King Lear (tragedy), As You Like It (comedy).
• Dante’s Purgatorio: “It’s about people whose will is maybe mostly oriented in the right direction, but who still feel…something is holding us back—and it’s probably ourselves. The feeling that we want to want God more than we actually do…that’s what Purgatorio is about.” [04:17]

2. The Communal Vision of Dante

• Dante’s focus on the importance of community and common goods as moral/spiritual anchors.
• Garlick: Suggests that the ordering of sins in Inferno makes more sense if you view their severity through the lens of social harm rather than pure theology or natural order. [06:52–09:16]
• Dr. West: “Fraud lowers the level of trust in the community as a whole. Not just an individual thing…all of a sudden we all have reason to suspect each other.” [08:18]

3. The Earthly Paradise: Setting and Symbolism (Canto 28)

• Arrival in Eden:
  • “Everything is great. This is exactly what you want a forest to be—there’s nothing sinister about this forest.” [13:51]
  • The Edenic garden is atop Mount Purgatory, signifying a return not to heaven, but to original innocence.
• Matilda:
  • Mysterious, idyllic woman picking flowers—possibly an allegory for the active life or prefiguration of Beatrice/wisdom.
  • “There’s something pure and beautiful here, but sort of like our dirty minds can’t have a hard time hearing it that way, because that’s what Eden would mean…there’d be nothing untoward about you and a lovely young maiden chit chatting over a stream about flowers.” – Dr. West [14:43]
• Eros and Beauty:
  • Matilda symbolizes “the beginning of [Dante’s journey] about your attraction to the beautiful, independent of the beloved.” [19:12]
  • The encounter is charged with a traditional sense of Eros as natural love, oriented eventually to the Divine.

Notable Quote:

“Your Eros, your erotic appetite for beauty, is actually enkindled in you by God because it’s an infinite desire…you never satiate in finite beauties.”
—Garlick [16:41]

4. The Rivers Lethe and Eunoe: Memory, Sin, and Healing

• Lethe and Eunoe:
  • Lethe erases memory of sin; Eunoe restores memory of the good.
  • Dante’s Christian remix of classical motifs (Lethe in Virgil/Plato and Eunoe, Dante’s innovation).
• Philosophical Challenge:
  • What does it mean to truly “forget” your sin?
  • “Something about the beatific vision or the life with God means you don’t remember your sin. But then he says there’s this other river, the remembering river… What would it be to be sort of healed in your mind?”
    —Dr. West [31:02]

5. The Apocalyptic Procession (Canto 29)

• Procession Imagery:
  • Deeply symbolic, combining Scriptural, theological, and local Italian procession motifs:
    • Seven candelabras (gifts of the Holy Spirit), 24 elders (Old Testament), four beasts (Gospels), chariot (the Church), griffin (Christ’s two natures), dancing virtues (theological and cardinal virtues), etc.
  • “It’s like he meshes all of that imagery with an Italian street parade.” – Dr. West [35:06]
• Allegorical Function:
  • Dante does not explain the procession, affirming its apocalyptic (“unveiling”) quality, resisting simplistic allegorical reduction.
• Prudence with Three Eyes:
  • Explored as the cardinal virtue of vision/leadership, though Dr. West notes its “striking yet bizarre” symbolism for readers not schooled in medieval allegory. [43:28]

Memorable Moment:

“My translation: ‘Full of wonder, I turned to my good Virgil…and he answered with a look no less charged with amazement.’ It’s one of those moments where you look at your teacher…and they look back and say, ‘I have no idea what’s going on.’”
—Dr. West [50:32]

6. The Climax: Beatrice’s Arrival and the Loss of Virgil (Cantos 30–31)

a. The Emotional Break (Canto 30)

• Song of Songs & Eros:
  • Beatrice appears amidst biblical love poetry and heavy eros, signaling the mystical ascent beyond reason and natural virtue.
• Virgil’s Silent Exit:
  • “This was a complete gut punch to me…Virgil is gone. Are you kidding?” —Garlick [60:56]
  • Dr. West likens this to the bittersweet reality of students surpassing their mentors.
• Justice and Providence:
  • “If we pity Virgil, then we’re falling right back into the same trap that Dante the pilgrim fell into with Francesca…Virgil is where he needs to be according to everything that’s true, good and beautiful.” – Garlick [62:00]

Notable Quote:

“You never know when you’re done with your mentor or your guide…we just find ourselves realizing that person is no longer in my head. And it’s not the relationship went bad—it’s just what this relationship is meant for.”
—Dr. West [65:25]

b. Beatrice’s Reproach: The Confession Scene (Cantos 30–31)

• Naming and Accusation:
  • Beatrice is the only character in the entire Divine Comedy to call Dante by name.
  • She chastises Dante for abandoning the true Good for “shadows of false goods,” despite the grace of knowing her.
• Dramatic, Almost Sarcastic Tone:
  • “Don’t cry about [Virgil] yet. You’ll cry, but from a different sword.” [70:27]
  • Even the angels are sympathetic: “Lady, why tear him down?” Yet Beatrice insists on “penitence that shows itself in tears.” [71:54; 88:00]
• Allegory of Eros:
  • Beatrice is both a historical muse and an icon of Divine Beauty—her role is to direct Dante’s erotic longing toward God.
  • “Beatrice now sees herself in her beauty as an icon of God…” – Garlick [78:40]

Key Thematic Point:

• The true “original sin” underlying the seven deadly sins is choosing apparent goods over the authentic Good; Beatrice’s rebuke dramatizes this existential struggle.

• Dante’s Contrition:

  • Only after looking at Beatrice (wisdom) gazing at the griffin (Christ, the two-natured savior) does true remorse and purification occur.
  • Matilda makes Dante drink from Lethe, completing sacramental imagery of confession and forgiveness.
  • “It’s clearly baptismal here; another river crossing…like we had back in hell, but in a new way.” – Dr. West [95:34]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:55] Dr. West’s background and orientation to Dante and Shakespeare
• [06:52] The centrality of community in Dante’s theology
• [13:51] Describing the paradise forest and the introduction of Matilda
• [16:41] Eros, beauty, and Dante as the seeker of the infinite
• [29:06] The rivers Lethe and Eunoe—erasure and memory in spiritual healing
• [35:06] Breakdown of the liturgical/apocalyptic procession
• [43:28] Symbolism of the virtues, especially Prudence with three eyes
• [50:32] Virgil’s own bewilderment as a mentor
• [60:56] Virgil’s departure and the emotional climax
• [70:27] Beatrice’s arrival, first word: “Dante”—and her stern critique
• [78:40] Beatrice as the icon of Divine Beauty and the erotic ascent to God
• [88:00] The necessity of true contrition—Beatrice as examiner/confessor
• [95:34] The final river crossing, sacramental language, and preparation for Paradiso

Notable Quotes

• Dr. West [04:17]: “All of those things seem to me what Purgatorio is about…he knows he’ll be back to the terrace of the prideful. So he knows himself—a poet for people who are striving but tempted to make it all about themselves.”
• Garlick [16:41]: “Your Eros, your erotic appetite for beauty, is enkindled in you by God because it’s an infinite desire…all the beauties around you are finite.”
• Dr. West [31:02]: “What would it mean to be healed in your mind? For Dante, there has to be a kind of forgetting; we can’t carry around our sins with us.”
• Dr. West [50:32]: “You look at your teacher…and he looks back and says ‘I have no idea what’s going on.’ That’s actually a really important moment.”
• Garlick [60:56]: “The first time I read Purgatorio…I stopped reading—I had to think about it. There’s no emotional goodbye.”
• Dr. West [65:25]: “You never know when you’re done with your mentor…we just find ourselves realizing that person is no longer in my head.”
• Garlick [78:40]: “Beatrice was an icon. Her beauty was an icon of beauty itself—God—and Dante was given a phenomenal grace and totally fumbles it.”
• Dr. West [97:13]: “The mystery of Christ’s two persons in one nature—you can’t explain it, he just gives you an image…but I saw it somehow in someone else’s eyes.”

Key Takeaways for First-Time Readers

• Eden as Recovery and Passage:
  Arrival in Eden is not the end of ascent but a waystation—a recovery of innocence, not yet participation in supernatural glory.

• Beauty, Eros, and Spiritual Longing:
  Dante’s journey is sparked by natural love (Matilda), matures in supernatural wisdom (Beatrice), and is consummated in divine union (anticipating Paradiso).

• Sin as Misdirection of Eros:
  The ultimate confession is not a single vice but the soul’s tendency to settle for lesser (apparent) goods, even when graced with clear signs of the divine.

• Role of Guides and Mentors:
  Human reason (Virgil) can guide and even deeply love, but cannot attain the heights of supernatural virtue or vision—hand-off is necessary and bittersweet.

• Sacramental Imagery:
  The end of Purgatorio stages a confession and spiritual cleansing, uniting poetic and theological motifs of healing and self-knowledge.

Suggested Next Listen

The hosts mention that in the next episode, they'll discuss the concluding Cantos of Purgatorio with Joshua Charles and Dr. Frank Grabowski—perfect for listeners eager to complete Dante’s second canticle and continue the ascent into Paradiso.

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