Ascend – The Great Books Podcast

Episode: Q&A on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with Dr. Justin Jackson

Hosts: Deacon Harrison Garlick & Adam Minihan
Guest: Dr. Justin Jackson, Hillsdale College
Date: February 3, 2026

Episode Overview

In this special Q&A episode, hosts Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan sit down with returning guest Dr. Justin Jackson to explore Sir Gawain and the Green Knight in depth. Drawing upon listener questions and their own readings, they examine the poem’s intricate themes of tension, virtue, Christian and chivalric values, and the poet’s sophisticated structuring. Dr. Jackson, an expert in medieval literature and a deacon in the Orthodox Church, offers rich textual analysis, thoughtful responses to theological and moral dilemmas, and places the work in the wider tradition of Arthurian and Western literature.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Poem’s Tension and Reader’s Moral Engagement

• The Central Pedagogy:
  Dr. Jackson emphasizes that Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is intentionally constructed to hold tensions—between Christian and chivalric virtues, between self-preservation and fidelity, and between the roles of paganism and Christianity.

  • “These things are held in tension and we're going to see that tension in characters and acts. ...It's then a moral read that reflects back to us.” (04:20, Harrison summarizing Dr. Jackson’s earlier guidance)

• Temptation of Easy Judgment:
  The hosts and Dr. Jackson discuss the temptation for readers to judge Gawain harshly or simplistically, reflecting on how age and deeper reading change one’s perspective on his failings.

  • “What a failed knight. You failed, look at your sin of untrouth, this infidelity. What a loser. ... Now, you know, 54 years old...I get it. I really wanted to see it black and white.” (04:51, Dr. Jackson)

2. Women in the Poem: Guinevere, Mary, Lady Bertilak, and Morgan le Fay

Guinevere’s Marginal but Pivotal Presence

• Guinevere features at the key moments—beginning and end—but her role is eclipsed by Morgan le Fay’s machinations. Her position stimulates questions about the poem’s courtly values and how women serve as focal points of rivalry and parallelism between Arthur’s and Bertilak’s court (08:45, Dr. Jackson).

Mary and Morgan le Fay as Spiritual and Pagan Poles

• Both “loom large in the margins” yet govern Gawain’s journey as icons of opposing influences—Mary (Christian grace) and Morgan (pagan magic).
  • “You have magic on one side and of course, the Mother of God on the other. One that is hidden on the inside of the shield. One that's somewhat hidden, almost hidden out in the open.” (11:45, Dr. Jackson)
• The poem’s ambiguity reflects the era’s tension between pagan legacies and Christian identity. Ultimately, the hosts and Dr. Jackson suggest the narrative affirms the primacy of divine grace, reflected at the poem's conclusion (13:23).

Parallelisms with Lancelot and Chivalric Legends

• Gawain’s resistance to Lady Bertilak’s temptations invites a comparison to Lancelot’s fall with Guinevere, highlighting the poet's play with courtly love tropes (15:40).

3. The Hunting, Temptation, and “Game” Structure

The Castle as a Stage for Orchestrated Temptation

• Discussion centers on how deeply the court is “in on” Morgan and Bertilak’s scheme—are even the servants or knights complicit? (15:40)
  • “Is it only Bertilac who knows? ... What about the last knight who's escorting him to the Green Chapel... What if that's part of the temptation?” (15:40, Dr. Jackson)

Chivalry Versus Christianity

• Gawain walks a delicate line: resisting lust without offending hospitality, participating in a “game” that increasingly entangles him in sinful situations.
  • “This cult of love is supposed to be nearly platonic in its way, and that's what chivalry tries to take over.” (56:13, Dr. Jackson)

4. Gawain’s Compartmentalization and Confession

Compartmentalization and Moral Evasion

• Gawain manages to separate his fears and obligations—engaging in courtly games while death approaches, finding loopholes in contracts, and rationalizing actions through technicalities (23:08–27:55).
  • “He can read contracts very, very well. He can find loopholes really well.” (27:55, Dr. Jackson)

The Problematic Confession Scene

• A detailed discussion explores whether Gawain’s confession before his encounter at the chapel is genuine, given his secret retention of the girdle.
  • “The poem, though, seems to very much just say, it's a good confession. ... But the problem is, you can't do that. You can't go into confession knowing you're going to sin and be like, I'm sorry for that.” (29:24, Harrison)
  • “There's an incredible moment where the poets, I think he's winking at us...the last...thing you want to do if you're going to get your head cut off is have any sort of false confession.” (30:28, Dr. Jackson)
• Suggests the real moment of contrition comes during the Green Knight’s confrontation, not in the formal confession (37:25–38:41).

5. The Green Knight: Tempter, Judge, and Chivalric Peer

• Is the Green Knight a Christ Figure or a Tempter?
  The episode rejects reading the Green Knight purely as a Christ figure, emphasizing his role as a tester/temptor—yet one who offers Gawain multiple charitable “outs.”
  • “He is the tool of Morgan le Fay...Am I comfortable calling him a Christ figure? No. Am I comfortable calling him a tempter? I am.” (39:59, Dr. Jackson)
• The Green Knight’s contractual honesty and reciprocal mercy contrast with Arthur’s court’s pride and Gawain’s fear-based mistakes.

6. Reciprocity, Kisses, and Courtly Love

Liturgical Resonance of the Kiss

• Explores the tradition of the “kiss of peace” and how chivalric culture appropriates ecclesial forms of reconciliation.
  • “They have what are known as pax baids...they would pass it to each member and they would kiss it. So that slowly started to replace the kiss of peace...Do you know where it actually stood up for the longest time, the kiss of peace? It was in the courtly life.” (52:54, Dr. Jackson)

Are Gawain’s Kisses Erotic?

• The hosts and Dr. Jackson discuss whether the kisses exchanged are platonic, courtly, or erotic—concluding that they are multi-layered, generally non-sexual within chivalric norms (56:05).

7. The Color Symbolism: Green and Red

• Multiple Senses of Green:
  • Green Knight as wild man; as demonic (the Devil is associated with green in medieval iconography); as John the Baptist (decapitation).
  • “It's often associated with St. John the Baptist, St. John the Forerunner, which in a poem about decapitations...makes a good bit of sense as well.” (63:34–66:04, Dr. Jackson)
• Red Symbolism:
  • Linked to Mary and Christ, particularly in iconography and the poem’s intertwining of pagan and Christian motifs.

8. The Ending: Girdle as Shame and Glory

The Court’s Mirth and Misunderstood Lesson

• The host questions: Is Arthur’s court mocking Gawain or misunderstanding his humility/shame by adopting the green girdle as their own livery (81:18)?
  • “Some people read this as like they're mocking him. Some people read this as like they love him and they love how serious he takes things. And so they're joining him in that.” (81:18, Harrison)
• Dr. Jackson argues that the court’s act is more about maintaining “the renown of the Round Table” than sharing in Gawain’s shame—possibly another episode of chivalric values misappropriating Christian ones.
  • “If Gowan's wearing it for his shame...they've changed that. They've changed it to the glory of the Round Table. That may be a little problematic.” (81:43, Dr. Jackson)

Eschatological Hope in the Final Stanza

• The poem ends by invoking the “crown of thorns”—breaking through cycles of blunder to the promise of Christ’s bliss.
  • “All this cyclical stuff from bliss to blunder, there is finally going to be the eschatological breakthrough in which all there is is just bliss. And that's the bliss of Christ.” (86:43, Dr. Jackson)

The Mystery of the French Motto

• On the line “Honi soit qui mal y pense,” Dr. Jackson explains:
  • Originally the motto of the Order of the Garter, perhaps interpolated into the manuscript.
  • May serve as a general warning about projecting evil motives (perhaps echoing the poem’s themes of suspicion and projection).
  • It’s ambiguous whether the motto is meant for Gawain alone, the poem specifically, or all four poems found in the manuscript. (93:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[W]hat really helped me understand [the poem] was that these things are held in tension and we're going to see that tension in characters and acts.” (04:20, Harrison)
• “In some ways, that's one of the pieces of evidence where I'm thinking, boy, these knights at Bertilak's castle sure are laying some things on pretty heavily here, because he doesn't seem to be the world's greatest courtly lover with the lady sitting on his bed.” (18:20, Dr. Jackson)
• “That's what I mean by that compartmentalization. I can show you again, when Lady Bertilak gives him the girdle, what does he do? He hides it. And then he skips merrily off to confession.” (27:55, Dr. Jackson)
• “There's an incredible moment where the poets, I think he's winking at us... as if doomsday should have been appointed in the morning, which, of course, what's going to be appointed in the morning? Doomsday.” (30:28, Dr. Jackson)
• “He is the tool of Morgan le Fay... Am I comfortable calling him a Christ figure? No. Am I comfortable calling him a tempter? I am.” (39:59, Dr. Jackson)
• “I think the poem gives us enough hints to know, yeah, he's got some missteps here as well. And I think...the cock crowing really is supposed to be an echo of Peter's betrayal of Christ.” (30:28, Dr. Jackson)
• “They have what are known as pax baids...they would kiss it. ...Do you know where it actually stood up for the longest time, the kiss of peace? It was in the courtly life.” (52:54, Dr. Jackson)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |:----------:|----------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:13–06:03| Dr. Jackson on Poetic Tension & Temptation for Easy Readings | | 08:45–14:56| Discussion of Women’s Roles (Guinevere, Mary, Morgan le Fay) | | 15:40–21:27| Courtly Games, Hunting Scenes, Comparison to Lancelot Legends | | 23:08–30:28| Gawain’s Compartmentalization and Problematic Confession | | 37:25–39:59| True Contrition—Green Knight as Judge and Priest | | 44:03–48:08| Irony of Chivalric Virtue & Double Binds in Gawain’s Trials | | 52:54–57:14| Kiss as Peace—Liturgical and Chivalric Play | | 63:34–66:04| Color Symbolism: Green, Red, and the Demonic | | 81:18–85:22| Court's Reception of Gawain & Meaning of the Green Girdle | | 86:43–89:18| Final Stanza—Eschatological Hope and The Crown of Thorns | | 93:06–95:44| The French Motto and Its Interpretations |

Recommendations and Further Reading

• Other Gawain Romances: Medieval Institute Press’s Eleven Gawain Romances collection
• Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur / Arthuriad
• The Alliterative Morte Arthure (English, alliterative poetry tradition)
• Chretien de Troyes (for French tradition roots)
• The Mabinogion (Celtic sources)
• Pearl (for a closer experience with the Pearl Poet)
• Don Quixote by Cervantes, as a later development of the chivalric ideal

Dr. Justin Jackson’s Work

• Hillsdale College: Faculty page
• Substack: Bible and Literature
  • Offers literary readings of scriptural books with a focus on narrative and poetics.

Closing Thoughts

The episode frames Sir Gawain and the Green Knight as a poem of deep moral and spiritual complexity—its tensions are reflective both of the Knight’s character and the reader’s own attempts at virtue. The cyclical interplay of “bliss and blunder,” the ambiguous courtly and spiritual symbols, and the poem’s refusal to make easy judgments challenge readers to slow down, attend closely, and carry the conversation forward—messy, beautiful, and ultimately pointing beyond itself to redemption.

Next week: The podcast embarks on Dante’s Purgatorio with Dr. Jason Baxter.