Ep 373 – Vitamin A Debate

Summary

ASCP Esty Talk – Ep 373: Vitamin A Debate

Date: February 4, 2026
Hosts: Maggie Stasik (ASCP Program Director) & Ella Cressman (Licensed Esthetician, Organic Skincare Formulator)
Podcast: ASCP Esty Talk

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the ongoing debates, myths, and facts surrounding vitamin A in skincare. Maggie and Ella break down the various forms of vitamin A, look at how strength, formulation, and delivery systems impact efficacy, and discuss industry misconceptions, best practices for use, and ways estheticians can best educate themselves and their clients.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Forms of Vitamin A: Complexity & Evolution

• Retinol Esters (e.g., retinyl palmitate, retinyl acetate)

  • Marketed as "gentle" vitamin A but require multiple conversions to become active.
  • Maggie: "They're gentler because they're weaker. What's your feeling about retinol esters?" [03:57]
  • Ella: "Weaker doesn't mean ineffective. They're softer...it's a different communication with the skin." [04:17]

• Classic Retinol

  • The "OG" form with significant evidence backing its efficacy.
  • Often not tolerated well due to irritation and complex incorporation schedules.
  • Ella: "Very effective. But that could be too much for me even...not always easy to incorporate into your daily rhythm." [04:52]
  • Maggie: "People would often stop using it because they couldn't get past that hump with the irritation." [05:45]

• Retinal (Retinaldehyde)

  • Converts to retinoic acid more efficiently; less gets lost "in translation."
  • Often found in innovative encapsulated forms for increased efficacy and reduced irritation.
  • Ella: "Imagine you're translating from Spanish to French to English to Portuguese...your messaging might not be as effective." [06:15]

• Hydroxypinacolone Retinoate (HPR) / Granactive Retinoid

  • Brands claimed it doesn't require conversion, works like tretinoin but without irritation.
  • Hype faded; hosts express skepticism over the claims.
  • Ella: "I don't really care. I don't see...it doesn't make me get excited, I sleep right through that one." [07:44]

• Encapsulated Retinols

  • Delivery science helps shield actives, improve penetration, and reduce irritation.
  • Ella: Encapsulation gives actives a "secret pass" past the skin barrier; "It just gets into the club and then it starts speaking with it...nourishing the skin along the way." [15:14]

• Plant-Based Alternatives (e.g., Bakuchiol)

  • Trending as "retinol alternatives" but don't actually convert to retinoic acid.
  • Useful for sensitive clients or those who fear irritation.
  • Ella: "They're fantastic because they're woven into a formula that has other beneficial ingredients...like a delicious salad." [16:35]

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The Strength vs. Tolerance Debate

• Classic belief: "Strongest form = best results" vs. "Low and slow for skin health."
• Ella: “I really love the analogy of skincare and working out...Going hard in a workout, you’re so sore, but that doesn’t mean you’re having different results than if you did yoga. My favorite one is the one they’re gonna use.” [08:31]
• Maggie: “I have always been low and slow...going hard is not how I approach the skin. And I think it’s too much wounding too often.” [09:44]
• Discussion on client pushback and the importance of meeting them where they are.

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Compliance, Communication, & Formulation

• If clients can't stick with a strong vitamin A product, it's pointless.
• The role of formulation and delivery method (e.g., encapsulation, airless pumps) in effectiveness and tolerability.
• Label confusion: 1% retinol vs. 0.1% prescription—potency doesn’t always match the percentage due to conversion steps and formulation stability.
  • Ella: "People assume a 1% retinol equals 1% retinol...but there’s so many other factors like stability, but also conversions too." [14:07]

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Usage Myths: Modern Practice vs. Old Rules

• The old rules: don't use in summer, only at night, not around the eyes, avoid mixing with acids, etc.
  • Maggie: "We don’t follow those rules anymore. You can find vitamin A specifically for the eyes...The industry has shifted." [16:59]
  • Ella: Highlights advances in formulation; some safety rules are now outdated—look at each product and client individually. [17:59]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Ella (on retinol forms): "I think of that one as retinol, like, wreck it Ralph. You know, he comes in and he just makes a huge mess, gets the job done, but it's what happens in the aftermath." [03:11]
• Ella (on client compliance): "It doesn’t matter how strong it is if clients stop using it, right?" [14:02]
• Maggie (on retinol alternatives): "...Bakuchiol or another plant-based alternative to get their skin used to a keratolytic and then slowly bump them up to a true retinol." [16:59]
• Ella (on formulations): "It was encapsulated in a really cool way that had calcium and other minerals...It was nourishing the skin along the way and helping with communication and hydration which was really cool." [15:14]
• Maggie (on evolving industry knowledge): "Even though I’m saying all this...I can’t let go of my training from 20+ years ago. So my vitamin C is in the morning, my vitamin A is at night." [18:58]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:29 – Podcast proper starts; hosts introduce themselves.
• 02:15 – Overview of common vitamin A types and the evolution of retinoids.
• 03:57 – Strengths and weaknesses of retinyl esters.
• 04:52 – Challenges and protocols around classic retinol, irritation, and compliance.
• 06:15 – Retinaldehyde and importance of conversion efficiency.
• 07:24 – Granactive retinoid (HPR): Sizzle or fizzle?
• 08:14 – “Strength equals results” debate.
• 09:36 – Esthetician philosophies: Low & slow vs. going hard.
• 13:21 – Importance of formulation: stability, encapsulation, delivery systems.
• 14:07 – Label confusion & conversion math explained.
• 15:14 – Encapsulated mineral-based retinol delivery.
• 16:00 – Plant-based and alternative retinols.
• 16:59 – Usage myths: modern protocol vs. tradition.
• 18:58 – Old habits in skincare routines vs. new science.
• 19:50 – Episode takeaway and call for listener feedback.

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Takeaways

• There is no "best" vitamin A; the best choice depends on the client, their preferences, skin health, tolerance, and what they'll consistently use.
• Product efficacy depends on more than just the active ingredient: stability, delivery method, and overall formulation matter greatly.
• Old hard-and-fast "rules" for vitamin A use are increasingly outdated thanks to advances in ingredients and delivery science.
• Effective estheticians balance evidence, innovation, and client education tailored to the individual.

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Call to Action

The hosts encourage listeners to share their own vitamin A stories and questions via social media or email and to continue advancing both their foundational and evolving skincare knowledge.

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For more episode details, connecting with the hosts, or learning about ASCP, check the show notes.

Transcript

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[Maggie Stasik]

Meet Comfort Zone, the Italian science led skincare brand trusted by estheticians and featured in over 7,000 spas worldwide. Founded by pharmacist Dr. Davide Bolati, Comfort Zone is powered by over 60 in house chemists and skin care experts dedicated to skin longevity. Our clinically tested formulas blend advanced botanical and biotechnology research to deliver real results and elevate every treatment experience. Discover more at us.comfortzoneskin.com or follow comfort zoneskinofficial on Instagram

[Ella Cressman]

Foreign.

[Maggie Stasik]

Welcome to ASCP's Bestie Talk. I'm your co host Maggie Stasik, ASCP's program director.

[Ella Cressman]

And I'm Ella Cressman, Licensed esthetician, Certified organic skincare Formulator, Ingredient junkie and Content Contributor for ascp.

[Maggie Stasik]

Ella, do you use vitamin A in your regimen?

[Ella Cressman]

Yes I do. And I do in a lot of different ways. I used to be kind of personally very cautious about this ingredient, but let me tell you, it's an ingredient that everyone should be using. Not just that, but everybody's talking about it. Different forms, retinol, retinal, retinoic acid esters, new generation of retinoids and different carriers and so on and lot. There's like a ton of opinion. Sometimes they don't always line up with the science.

[Maggie Stasik]

I am with you. I used to be really cautious, but now I use it pretty consistently. Some form or another of it. Anyway. So today we're breaking down the biggest debates around vitamin A. What's real, what's marketing, what estheticians actually need to know? According to Maggie and Ella, is there any other source? Exactly, exactly. So let's start with all the forms of vitamin A, because part of the debate is that brands all claim their version is the one. So there's retinal esters like retinol palmitate, retinal acetate, retinol retinal or retinaldehyde retinoic acid as a prescription form. There's HPR or hydroxypinaclone retinoate AKA GRID Active Retinoid retinol retinoate, encapsulated forms. Oh, my gosh. Like, all of these are a mouthful. Some of them you may not have even heard of.

[Ella Cressman]

I have got to be honest with you. I think you can also see the history or the evolution of ingenuity with some of these, for sure. Especially the first two you mentioned. Retinol esters like retinol palmitate and retinol ol very common in our space. But it came in a. I don't want to say like an. A friendlier version than the og, which was like breaking through the skin. Well intended as it was. But I think of that one as retinol, like, wreck it Ralph. You know, he comes in and he just makes a huge mess, gets the job done, but it's what happens in the aftermath. So I love what is happening in the industry now with the rest of them, but it's not like it's super exciting for everyone, right?

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, absolutely. Here's where the controversy starts, starting with retinal esters. They're often marketed as gentle vitamin A, but they convert three times before they become active. So, yes, they're gentler because they're weaker. What's your feeling about retinol esters?

[Ella Cressman]

I feel like it's a tough love conversation. Weaker doesn't mean ineffective. They're softer, I think is a better language. It's a different communication with the skin. So I, I like esters when appropriate, and I'm always going to look at the entirety of the formulation and the intention. And then you have to consider what else they have going on in their regimen or their routine.

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, I'm right there with you. I, I like retinal esters. I use them often. I feel like they work well for my skin. There's a time and a place for all of these ingredients, I think you could argue.

[Ella Cressman]

Right, for sure, absolutely. And then of course, we have retinol, the classic. There's a ton of, ton of evidence. This is again, like the og, Good results, very effective. But some. Here's where I see the problem with this one is you're adjusting the skin to get used to it. So you have to like insert it into a routine, like a Monday, Friday kind of a situation. Then you grow to Monday, Wednesday, Friday, all well and good. Again, very effective. But that could be too much for me even, like, I think, what day is it just happened last week where I had a client who was on a prescription retinol and I told her, let's just start, you know, why get rid of it? If you already have it, let's start this way. She wasn't using it before. Because of that reason, she would forget what day it was, and she's like, well, I'll just catch it the next time I'm supposed to do it. So great, good results, however, not always easy to incorporate into your daily rhythm. Yeah.

[Maggie Stasik]

And retinol, the classic, the og. This is what was available when we first entered the industry as estheticians. And this was the product that you would say to your clients, you need to use this to prep the skin ahead of your chemical peels, or those people that really wanted great results with a topical product, this is what you'd be recommending. And to your point, Ella, people would often stop using it because they couldn't get past that hump with the irritation.

[Ella Cressman]

Yes, for sure. There was a product that came out. Gosh, did it come out seven years ago? Maybe, or six or seven years ago? And it's retinal. So we have OL&AL. So retinal based. But the way that they had it formed, retinol, I'm gonna call it retinal. Like my friend, retinal is marketed as, like, a faster, better retinol, and it converts more efficiently in the skin. And that's really what we have to consider with retinols or vitamin A derivatives is how are they going to communicate in the skin. But this particular formula was awesome because we have this form that is not gonna have to. Let's call it translate. So converting inside of the skin means it has to translate. Imagine you're translating from Spanish to French to English to Portuguese. Let's say along the way, something may get lost in translation or your messaging might not be as effective. And that's the problem, some say. But this particular retin al is super effective because of the way it's encapsulated, which I think was cool, too. Another innovation.

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, cool.

[Ella Cressman]

All right.

[Maggie Stasik]

We then have HPR or hydroxypinacolone retinoid or a granactive retinoid. Some brands claim it doesn't need conversion and works like tretinoin without the irritation. But maybe that's a stretch. Do you have opinions about granactive retinoid? It was kind of a buzzword, I

[Ella Cressman]

feel like for a little while I remember it, but I haven't heard it for so long. And I'm going to be honest with you, I don't really care. I don't see. When you have so many forms that it doesn't make me get excited, I sleep right through that one.

[Maggie Stasik]

And Ella has left the building. Okay. Yeah, you're right. You heard it for a while, and now nothing. And so maybe. Maybe it didn't do quite what it claimed, or people transitioned to other forms of vitamin A.

[Ella Cressman]

There is something else shiny over there. Yeah, exactly.

[Maggie Stasik]

One of the biggest debates in the industry is strength equals results, or no pain, no gain. You know, do you start clients on the strongest form they can tolerate, or do you go low and slow?

[Ella Cressman]

I think, honestly, I really love the analogy of skincare and physical, like, working out and such, because that's what you're doing. So when you have a vitamin A derivative and you go hard in the beginning, you can imagine going hard in a workout, and what happens afterwards is you're so sore, you can't go to the bath, you can't sit down, you go to the bathroom. You're walking around in pain for a few days until it subsides, Then you do it again, and then you do it again. And the theory is the more you go hard in these hard workouts and, you know, give yourself time to rest, do it again, do it again, your body acclimates, and then you can continue going hard. But that doesn't mean that you are having different results than if you did a light workout or yoga. Have you seen Pilates bodies? Holy cannoli. You. Not. Not hard. But it's a different approach, and you're still having good results. So I don't agree or I don't subscribe to the strength equals results. My favorite one is the one they're gonna use.

[Maggie Stasik]

Okay. Yeah. I like how you. I like your twist on that. Ella. For me, I have always been low and slow.

[Ella Cressman]

Nice. Yeah.

[Maggie Stasik]

And there are plenty of clients who have not liked my approach, and they're then not the client for me. I think as. As you put it, going hard is not how I approach the skin. And I think it's too much wounding too often. And yes, to your point, the skin adapts and you can get great results, but it's just not my philosophy.

[Ella Cressman]

I think so too. So how would you approach. How did you approach your clients? Who gave you pushback on that?

[Maggie Stasik]

I did my best in educating them, and I did use that exercise analogy. And they either bought into what I was saying or they didn't. And they weren't my client. Done.

[Ella Cressman]

Room for the next.

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Ella Cressman]

I've had that before. Cause I think it's pretty common, especially in a certain generation. And I would do the same thing. Is like, this is better for you long term. Because it's going to give you longer lasting results. You're going to get there the same time, but your skin is not gonna be red and vulnerable along the way. Yeah, but you get to the destination at the same time. Really?

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, absolutely. Less is more. I always say let's nurture the skin, keep it healthy. It doesn't require chronic wounding all the time.

[Ella Cressman]

Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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[Ella Cressman]

Let's get back to the podcast.

[Maggie Stasik]

Have you had clients who insisted on starting strong because they thought it meant quicker results?

[Ella Cressman]

Yep, but we quickly turned that boat. I kept on, but it's saying, hey, let's think about that or go ahead. You know what, go ahead. And then we adapted. I mean, I'm going to meet my clients where they are. Right. So if that's what you want to do, maybe they have a prescription and it's $10 copay because they get it under their health insurance. Okay, well then let's adjust everything else. So that means changing, adding more antioxidants, adding more soothing ingredients. Definitely adding, you know, hyperpigmentation inhibition into their routine if that's what they want to do for sure. Do I try to talk them out of it? Yeah, because I want them to buy my skin care. But you got to meet them where they are.

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah. I often found this challenge, truly with chemical peeling, less so with topical products. But certainly there are those clients that feel like if they aren't seeing the redness, seeing the peeling, or feeling the burn when they apply the product. Not that retinol burns per se, but that it wasn't then working. And I think that's part of the reason why you have this huge debate around strength equals results. And it's not just strength, it's also how often is your client using it, Whether the product is buffered, how is it formulated, what's the stability, the delivery system you mentioned encapsulation I think.

[Ella Cressman]

Yeah, the encapsulated types are really cool too. Yeah, my favorite.

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah. The delivery system and then also their skin barrier. So to our point here, the clients that are, you know, no pain, no gain and going hard and what is the health of the skin, the barrier health of the skin, if they then use a very strong retinol and have a strong reaction to that retinol, perhaps they may think it's too strong or it's not for them, or they can't tolerate it because the health of the skin has been depleted.

[Ella Cressman]

So do you think that's why pushing it too early is part of why clients don't comply? Because they think they can't tolerate vitamin A's?

[Maggie Stasik]

Could be, yeah, yeah.

[Ella Cressman]

Because if clients stop using it, it doesn't matter how strong it is, right?

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Ella Cressman]

Here's another thing. Formulation is an area where confusion runs wild because people assume a 1% retinol equals 1% retinol. But there's so many other factors like stability but also conversions too. So a 1% retinol or a 3% retinol sounds like more than a.0, 1% prescription, right? Or 0, 3% prescription when they're actually equitable. There's something that happens with chemist formulations to where they can tell this, this is how much is in there and you have to compare it. Ask for, if you're using a, a brand's product, ask for the comparison. And that's an interesting fact also because retinol is, she's, she's a hot mess. She can degrade with heat, with light, with air. So how it's packaged is super important. Does the bottle allow for air exposure? Is it an airless pump? Does it sit in a warm bathroom? Do you take it in your car? Does the product have encapsulated forms in the formulation? So one of my favorite things to talk about, one form that I loved, I was telling you about the Al, it was encapsulated in a really cool way that had calcium and other minerals. And so it's almost like it has a secret pass through the lipid barrier of the skin where other forms will kind of like I was explaining, break through and cause trauma. This one whispers right past it. It's like it has a VIP pass. It doesn't have to wait in line, it doesn't have to cause a commotion. It just gets into the club and then it starts speaking with it. And then along the way, cuz it was in the shell that had these minerals. It was nourishing the skin along the way and helping with communication and hydration which was really cool. So look for that. How is it wrapped, how is it packaged, what is it, what vehicle is it in? Is important too.

[Maggie Stasik]

Another topic and this I think was trending for a while. And just like we were saying with the cranaactive retinoids, this maybe has had its moment in past. But plant based retinols or retinol alternatives like bakuchiol for instance, or other botanical retinol like ingredients that have benefits, um, they're not the same as retinol, they do not convert into retinoic acid. But some clients, they prefer a plant based option. Um, and it has a similar exfoliating properties that a retinol perhaps does.

[Ella Cressman]

I love plant based retinols too. Or retinol mimics retinol. Like alternatives, I think they're fantastic because they're woven into a formula that has other. They should be woven into formulas that have other beneficial ingredients. And it's like a, a, like a delicious salad, sneaky with all these vitamins and minerals inside of it. But so I'm a big fan of those. Yeah.

[Maggie Stasik]

And it's also maybe another way to start someone out slow, someone who's more sensitive or someone who is afraid of the retinols. And you can start them with something like bakuchiol or another plant based alternative to get their skin used to a keratolytic and then slowly bump them up to a true retinol. Um, another controversy is usage rules. And we've touched on this a little bit already. But there used to be these really hard, fast rules about like don't use vitamin A in summer for instance, or don't use it during the day, only use it at night, don't put it around the eyes, don't mix it with your AHAs and BHAs. And I think that most of that is outdated. We don't follow those rules anymore. You can find vitamin A serum specifically for the eyes. It's mixed with your eye cream for instance, and mixing it with AHAs and BHAs. We do that kind of thing all the time now. So those rules were oversimplified and I think the industry really has shifted. I don't know if you have thoughts about that.

[Ella Cressman]

I think so too. But it's interesting because a lot of the education let's talk about with chemical peels, it's still make sure they're off of it for X amount of time, not considering formulations. Then they want you to be off of it for x. Amount of time because you're let's just thought like the top layer is vulnerable, but now with like encapsulations like we talked about or different forms or plant based alternatives, your top layers aren't as vulnerable as before. So is a good rule of thumb. Sure. But I think the assumption of don't use it in the summer doesn't really hold true in Colorado because it's like, oh, because you're out in the sun more often in the summer, but not here. We're always out in the sun. So it's a matter of finding one that's safe. Also with the vitamin A, with AHA's BHA's combo argument, again, that goes to the formulation and formulations are so much more sophisticated than they used to be. It's not a bad idea to hold pause but take that instead as an opportunity to ask questions, right?

[Maggie Stasik]

Yeah, absolutely. And the funny thing is, even though I'm saying all of this and we're having this discussion, I can't let go of my training from 20 plus years ago. So my vitamin C is in the morning, my vitamin A is at night. You know what I mean? It's right. Even though, you know, the industry has evolved and it's not so black and white anymore.

[Ella Cressman]

But your eye cream's still in the cupboard where it was. And I know that you're pushing that retinol, all of them to the lash line. So there's a little gap.

[Maggie Stasik]

It's definitely working for me.

[Ella Cressman]

Yeah. It grows from foundational learning, which is important to see. I happen to know that foundational changing is or excuse me, that foundational education is modernizing, which is exciting. So it's going to be interesting to see.

[Maggie Stasik]

That is exciting. So what's the takeaway here? Vitamin A is powerful, it's good to have in your arsenal, but it's also nuanced. There's no single quote, unquote, best form, only the best fit for each client. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What's your take on vitamin A? Share with us on social media, through Instagram, Facebook or by emailing getconnected scpskincare.com thank you for listening to ASCPSDtalk and as always, for more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Ella and myself or to learn more about ascp, check out the show notes.