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- [00:01]
Massage Envy Announcer
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- [00:46]
Ella Cressman
Hello and welcome to ASEP SD Talk. I'm Ella Cressman, licensed esthetician, Reiki Master, forever student of the skin and content contributor for Associated Skincare Professionals.
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Maggie Stasik
I am Maggie Stasik, licensed esthetician and ASCP's program director.
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Ella Cressman
I have a shout out just to help brighten the day was kind of a question. Do you watch Love on the Spectrum?
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Maggie Stasik
No.
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Ella Cressman
You have to. It is the most joy infusion television that you will watch. I love that show. I love everybody on it. I know this is coming a little late since they released a new season in April, but oh my gosh, I could not help but smile and have tears of joy and I think right now we need more of that. So it's more of an encouragement shout out to the producers of that show and then, hey, everybody, go check it out. It's so, so good. Not that this is related to today's podcast or the story I'm going to tell you, but it reminded me of it because I was watching it with my husband. Not that my husband's on the Spectrum. I love him, even if he was, but he's not. I did want to talk today about something that's very interesting, very prevalent and growing. Okay, let's start with the topic. The topic today we're gonna talk about are research peptides. Have you heard of these?
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Maggie Stasik
Okay, no. What do you mean, research peptides?
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Ella Cressman
We're gonna get into that part of it, but I wanna introduce that as the term research peptides. Very, very important thing. I first heard about this about two years ago in like a, you know. Have you ever had one of those married moments where it's just like wa wa. The people on Charlie Brown, the adults. But sometimes what I hear when my husband talks, he had hurt his shoulder and he goes to one of those super duper weightlifting gyms where like Mr. Olympia works out and stuff. And so while he was there, somebody said to use something for his shoulder. And this is what I tuned out. Couple weeks later, something comes in the mail and then on my kitchen counter is like two vials and some syringes. I'm like, what are you doing? Are you doing steroids? He's like, no, it's gonna help. It's called BP 157. Like, okay, cool, whatever. Didn't hear anything of it. And then about maybe a year after that, my brother was like, oh, I'm doing BP157 because of my knee. So then I started to peek. Oh, I think that's what Gil was using. And then a little bit after that, I had a client who came in who was a trainer. So it's like all this little gym speak stuff and maybe the podcasts that are in that world, they're talking about these peptides. So I had a client who said her husband was in a motorcycle wreck peptide. He also works at that big weightlifter gym. And so he was doing that plus something else. I'm like, tell me more about it. She goes, oh, you can get it online. You order it. Like, nobody really talked about it, but they all knew how to get it. You have to reconstitute it. You have to use X amount of units. I was like, what? This sounds a lot of work. And then I heard it from another client that she was using it plus copper peptide injections and injections, you guys. So, you know, Maggie's looking at me completely perplexed.
- [03:47]
Maggie Stasik
I. Yeah, I mean, I have. I'm concerned.
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Ella Cressman
Okay, so first, let's pause for a second and talk about peptides. How we know them, really. Peptides. In skincare, we have basically four different categories. We have signaling peptides like skin firming or wanting a specific result. We have carrier peptides like copper. Those encourage skin strengthening. We have neurotransmitting or inhibiting peptides that give us that Botox like effect. And then we have enzyme inhibiting peptides that can contribute to a lot of things, especially skin brightening. That's a context that we know. This is for topical, right? So the biggest difference between cosmetic peptides and these research or bioactive peptides is that cosmetic peptides ask the skin to respond, asking for permission. Okay. Bioactive peptides are designed to make the body respond interesting. Like forcing it to do something. So the word research matters legally because there's this loophole, for research purposes only or not approved for human use. This verbiage is what allows some of these websites to. To sell legally because they're not labeled as supplements or drugs. So they're widely available to the public. And I know that sounds freaky, but this is what they call the gray market, not the black market. Cause it's out there, but it's gray market. And this is a gray area between regulated and unregulated medicine. Are you freaked out? Yeah, it's kind of crazy. So this cocktail of peptides that my husband and my brother and two of my clients were using is called Wolverine because it powers through regeneration and lets you get back to lifting heavy or doing whatever you needed to do. In my one client's husband's case, he was able to recover from his motorcycle accident faster.
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Maggie Stasik
Did he really recover?
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Ella Cressman
Well, he. He's walking, I guess. I mean, that's a fantastic question because you don't really understand it. So let's talk about the legal landscape in plain language. Legitimate medical peptides are insulin, certain growth hormones, and These are all FDA approved, like GLP1s. Even. So you hear a lot about this research. Peptides, they're sold without prescription, they don't have oversight, you're not getting tested, and they're often manufactured overseas. Not a big problem, because unless you were in one of these gyms or in this, like, clandestine club, you probably weren't hearing much about them or you are working in a lab and you were legitimately researching with them. Right. But the research only disclaimer is really now more of a regulatory workaround. It isn't the same as a supplement or a skincare ingredient. You're injecting a whole different response from the body, and it's something that you should be aware of. And I have my opinions on what really is catapulting this. I wanted to talk about it because I was playing a game on my tablet and I'm literally seeing ads pop up in between for these things. And I don't know if those are my algorithms or what. So I was talking to Kira about it. She goes, I'm seeing this a lot on TikTok and in social media. More and more people talking about it. I'm like, oh, this is kind of interesting. And then with the rise of people telling me about it in the treatment room, like, oh, we need to talk about this because there is some serious complications. Or you need to be aware. Not that we have to tell people, don't, don't order your injectables online without a doctor. That's none of my business, even though I feel that way. But you need to be aware of it because think of it this way, if you've ever recommended a peptide serum, you know that those peptides have been through safety and stability testing. But what we're talking about today is no such process. It's Just a vial, a website and a disclaimer. That's it.
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Maggie Stasik
Yeah. And it's not like you're applying this topically like we do with skin care. You're actually injecting it into your body.
- [07:49]
Ella Cressman
Yeah, I did it. I have to tell you guys.
- [07:53]
Maggie Stasik
Of course.
- [07:54]
Massage Envy Announcer
Out of the bag.
- [07:54]
Ella Cressman
I tried it. Let me tell you. What, What.
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Maggie Stasik
What happened?
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Ella Cressman
It wasn't great.
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Maggie Stasik
Were you at the gym pumping iron afterward?
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Ella Cressman
No, I was doing other. I couldn't.
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Maggie Stasik
You were doing other things. What were those other things?
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Ella Cressman
Limping. Oh, so the Wolverine didn't work? No, it was more like panicking online. And how do I metabolize this out faster? With $400 worth of peptides in my fridge.
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Maggie Stasik
Oh, I thought you were going to say in your body.
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Ella Cressman
No, no, because it's crazy. I. I'll get there. So let's disclaim this. We're. I'm not endorsing this. ASCP is not endorsing this. I'm going to tell you what I had happen. I watched Gilbert. Actually, Gil didn't even do it. My husband, he bought it. He never used it. And then he put it to the side because he didn't have the right thing to reconstitute it. Oh, but my brother didn't. He's like, oh, it was great. And then my client's husband, I'm like, oh, he's better and he's fit and okay. And then my other client, who was like, yeah, I'm doing copper peptides, injecting it, something called Glow Cocktail, which had the BP 1 57. Something else and something else, bunch of letters and numbers and copper peptide. I'm like, well, you look fantastic. But there's more to that story too, so hold tight.
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Maggie Stasik
I see, you know what's coming to mind is like the Lance Armstrong controversy.
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Ella Cressman
What was that when he had.
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Maggie Stasik
He was injecting himself with illegal substances. I don't. Steroids and whatnot. I don't know, maybe this BLP150, blah, blah, blah.
- [09:20]
Ella Cressman
Well, I think it works for some people, but I think that it's scary. I think it's freaky. So how do we get here? Peptides began in legitimate academic and pharmaceutical research. That's what we're talking about. Let's see really how this works. They entered mainstream through the bodybuilding and performance communities, really, in the early 2000s. So they've just had this like. Like whis. I'm imagining them whispering over their, you know, gloves, hands going, hey, try this. Or whatever. Um, but it expanded with online suppliers selling these research compounds directly to consumer. It was accelerated by the biohacking movement in the mid 2010s, which I think that's what I was alluding to a lot of these podcasters, because my client did mention. Check out this podcast to hear more. And then you have to do this, you have to do that. But it really exploded with demand driven by the GLP1 weight loss drugs 2022-2024. That's when you had people becoming more aware of GLP1s. But the price tag was ridiculous. So some of these compounding pharmacies were providing it at a significantly less price by altering it just a little bit from the Eli Lilly formulation. So they were able to have this compounding one. And then I think these other peptide companies are like, oh, we have it too.
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Maggie Stasik
Interesting.
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Ella Cressman
So now you can go online and you can get the BP1 girl. There is so many of them, it's crazy. We'll talk about that in just a little bit. This increase, what the data shows is there was a 300% increase in problematic peptide advertising. That's what I was telling you that Kira said she saw an uptick on social media. We see a lot of that. It's almost like DIY medicine or DIY Transformers. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. Social media is now the primary access point for people becoming aware of these peptides. But there is this lab that tests for accuracy that people send it into. And there's a high volume of testing requests, which indicates massive unregulated distribution. So there's a lab called Janoschik Janusik, seeing high test demands and then high distribution with low trust and no oversight. So they're getting them and going. Probably what I should have done too was like, does this really real? Is this really going to work? And then saying, does this really work? The supply chain reality is that they're manufactured primarily overseas, often in China. They're sold through websites using research only disclaimers with little to no quality control or oversight. So when you go to these websites, it shows you this full catalog of potential. Doesn't say what they do, what it's for, how to use it, how to reconstitute it, what titration means. You order it and then you get an email that says, okay, cool, now that you ordered it, here's some instructions. But it's all really secretive. One of them, you have to say you're 21 years or older and you absolutely have to sign off on that. You understand what this means. So the disclaimer that I had to sign off on literally said research use only acknowledgement. And I had to acknowledge that I confirmed that all products in this order are being purchased strictly for research use only and not for human consumption, medical, veterinarian, or household use. Even though I got an email right after that. This is. Here's how you do it. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.
- [12:48]
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- [13:34]
Ella Cressman
Okay, here we go. Let's get back to the podcast. So the ones that I got were the BP 157 because I've, you know, I broke my leg and I wanted to feel stronger in that area also. I wanted to just feel fit and feel energetic and I wanted to look as good as my client who had come in and had it done. So I got that and CLO K L O W which was an enhancement of another compound called Glow whatever, but it's the one that had the copper peptide in there. I was like, oh, this is supposed to make you feel great. This is what all the podcasters are saying. I got the little email that figured out how to do it. I had to inject myself like twice a day for X amount of days, take two days off, then do it for five days. It was like this whole mathematic consumed me for one week and I was supposed to take it for six weeks and then you do something and they call a washout. But what happened to me because I have IIH is that it went to where it needed to go to to repair my ankle, felt better where I broke it. But then something else happened and I started having severe back pain and then a reignition of the symptoms I was having for my ih. And so what I understand now is it was almost like growth, like it was encouraging good things in my body. But for me, had I gone to a doctor and asked them about this, they would have said, probably not a good idea for you because I create too much cerebral spinal fluid. That's what gives pressure in My brain and it was doing that again. So I was having that representation of symptoms. It wasn't good for me. It might've been good for my brother, it might've been good for my client's husband, but it did not work for me. And it could have been really bad had I gone through that whole circumstance. So what happened with my client, my other client, that looks so good? She was in this high stress environment for two years. Homegirl, if you're listening, we both acknowledge you looked ratchet. She looked ragged. She looked like it had taken a toll on her. So when she came in about six weeks after the previous appointment, like, dang, you look so good. What's going on? She had reported that she was doing. That was about three months later, well, two months before that. So about a month after our appointment, she said, I'm having these bumps on my chin right here, Right here. So it was these weird bumps. She was getting them biopsied. And so walking through the whole process with her just being a sounding board, basically she was having a response to filler that she had injected years prior, but it was now a problem.
- [16:04]
Maggie Stasik
Like it was coming out.
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Ella Cressman
No, it was having a reaction to the filler in her face. A delayed reaction, which come to find out is not that uncommon. But it was because she had this injection of like things moving around that it, in my opinion, looked at that and goes, what's this? It's a foreign object. Let's respond to it and let's push it out.
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Maggie Stasik
Yeah, yeah.
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Ella Cressman
It was pushing out was like resolving itself. It was like attacking it and making these little nodules on her. So she looked good for a couple months and then it just wasn't a good idea. And I think that's the thing is you don't know what this is going to do. If you have like for me, what if it was going to have attack the metal that's in my body, in my leg, in my foot, you know?
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Maggie Stasik
Yeah.
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Ella Cressman
Or in this case, it was filler. It's things they don't know yet because they're being researched. Yeah. So there is another GLP one. Right. We have semaglutide, which is the GLP one. One thing, tirzepatide, which is the GLP one, and something else. Two things. And now they're coming out or they're waiting for FDA approval for Retro, True Tide or Retatrutide. I don't. It always is a tongue twister for me. And it's supposed to have three things. You can get it on These sites but it's not FDA approved yet.
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Maggie Stasik
Do these sites, since it's quote unquote research, ever follow up and say you completed the course, what happened to you?
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Ella Cressman
No. Yeah, no, they say 25% off coupon. Yeah, we're having a special 25% off. You know, order some more. But let's talk about what there are there. Right, so this is what you can find. I mean hundreds, I don't know, I didn't count em all but like 10 pages like click through, click through. There must have been 20 per page of letters and numbers and I don't know what the heck this says but let's just talk about a few of them. GLP1 derivatives. I mentioned semaglutide and tirzepatide and they have em in different concentrations depending on what your dose is. So I think somebody could say oh I'll figure this out. But having been on semaglutide previously with a doctor, you start low and you grow and there are some serious health side effects. Like I couldn't tolerate it, I didn't tolerate it very well at all. But I needed to be walked through that with a medical professional. This is not. You can jump on there and get them. These are weight loss compounds. The gray market is appealing because they cost a lot less. But also you have to go through the hoops of getting a prescription and paying someone. There's. I mean they're very plentiful now but I think if you're thinking about it please don't like go through a medical professional that can answer questions should something come up. But also you need to be aware of that. What if your client's coming in and they have this accelerated aging? Maybe they look more, you know, obviously deflated. What if they have a compromised skin barrier or impaired healing? Again not to wag fingers at them and tell em what not to do but you need to be aware that this could be a possibility cuz maybe they're over treating themselves or something. Being a sounding board is really good. And then the BPC 157 or the other one was TB 500 so one's Wolverine and one is. I don't remember what the other one was called. Oh, the Hulk. There's the Hulk and the Wolverine which sounds cool. These are the healing peptides. They're marketed as injury repair, tissue regeneration and anti inflammatory and they're frequently injected by fitness or biohacking communities. And what could happen theoretically is there could be accelerated wound healing and an inflammation response. For me it was pain so then I had dryness in my skin and rashes because I'm like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? It was crazy. The clinical uncertainty of these is that you really don't know the impact on treatment outcomes that you're gonna perform. If these are a heightened, oh, I need to repair. If these are meant to turn up the repair process, and you're so used to providing this controlled wounding service, whether it's ablative or non ablative or chemical peel, you have this response. You really need to know what's gonna happen. And these are so unpredictable. Here's some other ones that was on there that I thought was interesting. Have you ever heard of Melanitan one and two?
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Maggie Stasik
No.
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Ella Cressman
These are injectables to help you look tan.
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Maggie Stasik
Yeah, I could see that people would want that.
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Ella Cressman
So it's sun tanning without the exposure, but you're still encouraging melanocyte or melanin activity. Yeah, melanin reactivity, which I could see
- [20:20]
Maggie Stasik
would have a lot of side effects.
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Ella Cressman
Good. Yeah, because they're like stimulating melanin with sun exposure to protect, and they're injecting this stimulating melanin distribution to protect. So something's still signaling melanin. Hey, let's go in there. It's very interesting. The skin relevance here is absolutely direct because you could have uneven hyperpigmentation or atypical mole changes. And let's not forget that neuromelanin is a thing. So you could be encouraging neuromelanin and that could have a chance to promote melanoma, which is another interesting thing that I learned from another client. So this could affect laser services, be it IPL or even hair removal. And it's just a safety red flag. So it doesn't, it doesn't come without consequence of just maybe wanting to look tan. You can also have nausea, facial flushing, and in some cases, increased melanoma risk, obviously, because if you're proliferating, you could be proliferating malefic cells too. So if a client comes in with unusual or sudden pigmentation changes, maybe it's something you could ask for. There's a lot of different opportunities. There's one called Selenac and cmax, which are cognitive enhancers anti anxiety, mood stabilization. So be aware if this is something they're adding to their chart, but it could change the inflammatory response in the skin one way or the other. So maybe you're not getting the same response you were before, or maybe you're getting an exaggerated response. So very, very great to Be aware of this can come in a nasal spray, which really, I did a lot of research on this in the last couple of days to try to find it. It sounded interesting, like, oh, can I get this without my doctor? But the nasal sprays, you really can't. You can get it. The injection one, no problem. And then some other ones that were on there that were really, really weird or interesting is there's like the knockoff Kybella, you know Kybella, like melting fat. Yeah. I feel like these can be super dangerous because you don't know what you're doing or where you're injecting. And specifically with Kybella, you're doing that grid pattern. Can you imagine doing that on yourself or asking your spouse or somebody else to do that for you? It just. I get it, you wanna have a solution and a quick fix, but there's just so much that could go wrong with these, as I experienced, as my client experienced. And so much that could go right, really, as I've also witnessed secondhand, too. But it's an interesting subject.
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Maggie Stasik
Yeah, really fascinating. And. And I certainly wouldn't dabble with this and reading the potential side effects. Side effects that are not even necessarily related to what the thing is intending to treat. Yeah, it's. I don't know, it is very interesting.
- [23:19]
Ella Cressman
I expected when I ordered them, I wanted to have better sleep, I wanted to feel better, I wanted to be more energized, and I wanted to not be what I felt was held back anymore. And I can empathize. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling those things. That's what other people are seeking out. I would just encourage discernment of it. And then for practitioners that may be coming across this in their treatment rooms, understand that that is the motivation behind it. So maybe approaching with grace. I would encourage that too. Approaching with grace, but just being aware. And if they are, and if they're doing their own, It's a lot of math, I'm gonna tell you, because you had to figure how much of this certain kind of water to inject, and then once it was injected in ccs, how many units did that translate to? And then how do you draw it out of an XCC insulin syringe? It's too much math for me. I can't do it anymore. But it's a lot of effort is what I'm going for. And the cadence of what you do, it really is consuming and such, all for the intention of creating a solution. And so being aware of that and then shifting your treatment plan for it or being a safe place that your clients can be honest and tell you what they're doing. So what really started out as a conversation that I was tuning out of with my husband, remember? Yeah, it really is something that I want you and our listeners to tune into, to be aware of what's out there. First of all, it's fascinating, it's very interesting, and I have that geeky side of me, that sciency side that wants to experiment on myself. But there are regulations for a reason, because it breeds dosing suggestions and such and so on. You really kind of left to a podcast or a clandestine email with this kind of a situation and no real yeah, but why? Or what are some other interactions? So again with a disclaimer, don't try this at home if you will, but I think it's something that you would really want to be aware of. Awareness is good. Now, listeners, we really want to hear from you. Are your clients biohacking with these gray market peptides? Reach out via Instagram, Facebook, or send us an email@getconnectedscpskincare.com we want to know all the details. In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCPS Talk. For more information on this episode, or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself, or to learn more about ascp, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of ascp. Esti talk.