Summary of "Ask Haviv Anything" Episode 14: Should Israel Give Up on International Law? A Conversation with a Former IDF Lawyer

Release Date: May 18, 2025

In Episode 14 of "Ask Haviv Anything," host Haviv Rettig Gur engages in a profound discussion with Ben Wallhouse, a former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) lawyer, about the role and challenges of international law in the context of the ongoing conflict in Gaza. The conversation delves into the complexities of adhering to international humanitarian law while combating organizations like Hamas, which deliberately exploit these laws to their advantage.

1. Introduction to the Debate on International Law and Warfare

Haviv opens the episode by highlighting the pressing questions surrounding international law amid the war in Gaza. He emphasizes the moral dilemmas faced when combating an enemy that not only poses a significant threat but also manipulates international law to delegitimize Israel's actions.

"How do you fight a war in the most moral way possible, with the least damage possible?" ([00:05])

2. Israel's Commitment to International Law

Ben Wallhouse responds by affirming Israel's steadfast commitment to international law. He explains that this adherence is deeply ingrained within the IDF's operations, from training and education to operational planning and legal advice.

"The simple fact is that Israel sees it as important to abide by international law. Successive chiefs of staff of the army have publicly and repeatedly expressed that commitment." ([09:19])

Wallhouse elaborates on the integration of legal advisors within the IDF, ensuring that military actions comply with international humanitarian standards. This system aims to balance military necessity with the imperative to minimize civilian harm.

3. Challenges and Misapplications of International Law

Haviv raises concerns about the perceived misuse and misapplication of international law by adversaries like Hamas, who intentionally cause civilian casualties to provoke international condemnation of Israel.

"Hamas' fundamental war fighting strategy was the mass sacrifice of its own civilian population... This is the purpose of this kind of war." ([36:56])

Wallhouse acknowledges these challenges but argues that abandoning international law is not a viable solution. Instead, he emphasizes the importance of correctly applying and upholding these laws to maintain moral and legal integrity.

4. Criticisms of International Legal Institutions

The conversation shifts to the criticisms Israel faces from international legal bodies such as the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ). Haviv questions the fairness and impartiality of these institutions, citing instances like the ICC's arrest warrants against Israeli leaders and biased judicial appointments.

"Is international law going to be harmed? Or can you just abuse the Jews? ... can we trust in international law?" ([22:55])

Wallhouse counters by highlighting flaws within these institutions, including procedural issues and potential biases that undermine their credibility. He points out specific cases where the ICC's actions appear unjustified and influenced by political agendas.

"The prosecutor deemed all that irrelevant and said, Israel is not sufficiently dealing with these things. I'm getting involved." ([19:51])

5. Upholding Legal Standards Amid Adversity

Ben underscores the necessity for Israel to maintain its commitment to international law despite external pressures and adversarial strategies aimed at undermining it. He argues that Israel's adherence not only reflects its values but also strengthens its global standing and alliances.

"As long as we retain that commitment and show our expression to that commitment, both in our deeds and in our words, I'd like to hope that at the end of the day that will keep us protected." ([41:19])

He also references the Australian investigation into a tragic airstrike, which supported Israel's internal findings, demonstrating the effectiveness and reliability of Israel's legal processes.

6. The Strategic Use of International Law by Adversaries

The discussion highlights how groups like Hamas and Hezbollah exploit international law to legitimize their actions and inflict strategic civilian harm, thereby forcing Israel into a morally and legally precarious position.

"Hamas strategically needed many more Gazan civilian dead... We are testing whether a democracy that does want to obey these laws... can fight an enemy whose fundamental strategy is the violation and undermining of these laws." ([36:56])

7. The Future of International Law and Israel's Role

Wallhouse remains optimistic about the potential reforms and strengthening of international law. He advocates for continued adherence and active participation in the international legal framework to address its current shortcomings and ensure its effectiveness.

"The promise of international law is a good promise... we need to ensure our continued commitment to international law." ([24:50])

8. Personal Reflections and Conclusion

In the concluding segments, Ben shares his personal experiences and the emotional toll of witnessing Israel face accusations of genocide, juxtaposed against his family's history during the Holocaust. Despite these challenges, he expresses pride in Israel's legal resilience and the professionalism of its legal institutions.

"To sit there on that bench and think of that history and then listen to these spurious and baseless claims is something that's quite challenging." ([34:26])

Haviv thanks Ben for his insightful contributions, wrapping up an episode that offers a nuanced perspective on the interplay between warfare, morality, and international law.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "How do you fight a war in the most moral way possible, with the least damage possible?" — Haviv Rettig Gur ([00:05])

• "The simple fact is that Israel sees it as important to abide by international law. Successive chiefs of staff of the army have publicly and repeatedly expressed that commitment." — Ben Wallhouse ([09:19])

• "Hamas strategically needed many more Gazan civilian dead... We are testing whether a democracy that does want to obey these laws... can fight an enemy whose fundamental strategy is the violation and undermining of these laws." — Haviv Rettig Gur ([36:56])

• "As long as we retain that commitment and show our expression to that commitment, both in our deeds and in our words, I'd like to hope that at the end of the day that will keep us protected." — Ben Wallhouse ([41:19])

• "To sit there on that bench and think of that history and then listen to these spurious and baseless claims is something that's quite challenging." — Ben Wallhouse ([34:26])

Conclusion

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the tensions between adhering to international law and addressing existential threats. Through the expertise of Ben Wallhouse, listeners gain valuable insights into Israel's legal strategies, the pitfalls of international legal institutions, and the broader implications for global humanitarian standards in modern warfare.