Title: Ask Haviv Anything
Host: Haviv Rettig Gur
Episode: 21: Why won’t Haredim serve in the IDF? A deep dive with Shmuel Rosner
Release Date: June 20, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 21 of "Ask Haviv Anything," host Haviv Rettig Gur engages in a profound discussion with Shmuel Rasner, a senior fellow at the Jewish People Policy Institute (JPPI) and editor of The Measure (themad.com). The episode delves into a critical and contentious issue within Israeli society: the Haredi (Ultra-Orthodox) community's minimal participation in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). This decline in military service rates has significant implications for Israel's security, economy, and social fabric.

Understanding the Haredi Community

Haviv begins by painting a comprehensive picture of the Haredi community, emphasizing its diversity and distinct subgroups such as the Lithuanian and Hasidic communities. He underscores the community's coherent identity, unique voting patterns, and differing worldviews compared to secular Israelis.

Haviv (00:05): "The Haredi community is extraordinarily diverse. It doesn't always look at on TV, but it in fact is. The Lithuanian communities, the Hasidic communities, there's a huge gap there in how they learn and how they live, in their mystical theologies and all of that."

Despite their distinct lifestyles and beliefs, Haviv acknowledges the solidarity within the community and its ability to act cohesively on various fronts.

Historical Context of Haredi Military Service

Shmuel Rasner provides a historical overview of the Haredi community's relationship with the IDF. In the decades following Israel's independence, particularly under Prime Minister Menachem Begin in the late 1970s, political coalitions with Haredi parties led to significant exemptions for Haredi youths from military service. This arrangement was initially a pragmatic solution to rebuild the Haredi community post-Holocaust but has long-lasting repercussions.

Shmuel Rasner (13:56): "In the late 70s... he formed the coalition for which he needed the ultra Orthodox parties as part of the coalition... they basically forced all youngsters to say to stay within the yeshivas by having the threat of military service hanging over their heads."

Historically, 60-70% of Haredi men served in the IDF during the 1950s-70s. However, post-coalition agreements saw this number plummet to less than 10%.

Current Military Participation and Its Implications

Haviv highlights the stark decline in military participation among Haredi men, contrasting it with high service rates among secular Israelis.

Haviv (10:33): "Maybe 8% of them do. Very few of them on the margins of Haredi society serve in the IDF. Most of them don't."

The growing Haredi population, now 13% of Israel's total population and projected to reach 25% in three decades, exacerbates the strain on the IDF. With an estimated 80,000 Haredi individuals within the age range eligible for service currently not serving, the military is grappling with unprecedented manpower shortages.

Haviv (20:25): "They're now about 13% of the population... Within 30 years, it will become about a third of the country."

Shmuel elaborates on the operational challenges, noting that the current military infrastructure is unsustainable without increased Haredi participation.

Shmuel Rasner (32:04): "We cannot go on forever with the number of reserve days that people have to serve."

Economic Strain and Fiscal Impact

The economic implications of Haredi non-participation are profound. Haviv and Shmuel discuss how Haredi families receive more in state benefits than they contribute in taxes, creating a fiscal imbalance.

Shmuel Rasner (47:13): "The average Haredi family gets 5,000 shekels from the state more than it gives."

This disparity places a significant burden on other segments of Israeli society, particularly metropolitan areas like Tel Aviv, which subsidize cities with high Haredi populations such as Jerusalem.

Haviv (48:23): "The city of Jerusalem... The only reason that Jerusalem can function is that people in Richon, Litzion and Herzliya and Etania in Tel Aviv and Ranana are paying their taxes."

Such economic strains contribute to broader social tensions, as non-Haredi Israelis increasingly perceive the Haredi community as reliant on state support without equivalent contributions.

Failed Integration Attempts

Attempts to create Haredi-friendly IDF units have largely been unsuccessful. Haviv shares his personal experience with a Haredi Nahal unit designed to accommodate religious needs while serving in the military.

Haviv (35:49): "We actually, the army has already gone through this experiment. It has seen what happens, and the project has utterly failed."

Despite tailored accommodations—such as daily Torah classes and higher kosher standards—the initiative failed to attract significant Haredi participation. Shmuel suggests that the fundamental issue is the Haredi community's preference for isolation and preservation of their distinct cultural and religious identity.

Shmuel Rasner (35:49): "They don't think it needs to be resolved. They are happy with the way it is now."

Cultural Integration and Shifting Norms

There are subtle signs of cultural integration among younger Haredi men, such as adopting common Israeli Hebrew accents and engaging in behaviors typical of secular Israelis. However, Shmuel contends that these superficial changes do not translate into deeper integration, particularly concerning economic participation and military service.

Haviv (43:54): "Their accent has become standard Israeli Hebrew. They're integrating. It's happening."

Yet, Shmuel emphasizes that critical aspects like economic integration and IDF participation remain stagnant, maintaining the community's insular nature.

Potential Solutions and Future Outlook

Haviv expresses a cautiously optimistic view, believing that economic pressures and military necessities will eventually incentivize the Haredi community to integrate more fully. He argues that eliminating state subsidies could force Haredi families to find ways to contribute economically and militarily.

Haviv (54:29): "Somebody needs to stop paying for it and eventually it'll get too expensive."

Conversely, Shmuel remains skeptical, suggesting that without a significant crisis or catastrophic event, the Haredi community may continue to resist integration, leading to sustained economic and security vulnerabilities.

Shmuel Rasner (56:36): "The question is whether before we do it, we have to go through a catastrophe even worse than the one we are having now."

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode, Haviv and Shmuel dissect the intricate dynamics between the Haredi community and the Israeli state, highlighting the intertwined challenges of military participation, economic sustainability, and cultural integration. While Haviv maintains a thread of optimism, believing in the power of economic and security incentives to drive change, Shmuel warns of the persistent structural barriers that may require more drastic measures to overcome.

The discussion underscores the urgency for Israel to address these challenges proactively to ensure its long-term security and economic vitality. As the Haredi population continues to grow, finding a sustainable and equitable solution remains paramount for the cohesion and resilience of Israeli society.

Notable Quotes

• Haviv (00:05): "The Haredi community is extraordinarily diverse... There's a huge gap there in how they learn and how they live..."
• Shmuel Rasner (13:56): "They basically forced all youngsters to say to stay within the yeshivas by having the threat of military service hanging over their heads."
• Shmuel Rasner (32:04): "We cannot go on forever with the number of reserve days that people have to serve."
• Shmuel Rasner (47:13): "The average Haredi family gets 5,000 shekels from the state more than it gives."
• Haviv (54:29): "Somebody needs to stop paying for it and eventually it'll get too expensive."
• Shmuel Rasner (56:36): "The question is whether before we do it, we have to go through a catastrophe even worse than the one we are having now."

Final Thoughts

Episode 21 of "Ask Haviv Anything" offers a critical exploration of the Haredi community's role in Israeli society, particularly focusing on military service and economic participation. Through the insightful dialogue between Haviv and Shmuel, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the historical, cultural, and economic factors at play, as well as the potential paths forward for fostering greater integration and mutual support within the diverse tapestry of Israeli life.