Podcast Summary: "Ask Haviv Anything"

Episode 45: 48 hours in Syria, with David Horovitz

Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Haviv Rettig Gur
Guest: David Horovitz, Editor-in-Chief, Times of Israel

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In this special episode, Haviv Rettig Gur hosts his mentor and longtime journalistic colleague, David Horovitz, to discuss Horovitz's unprecedented visit as an Israeli journalist to the newly reconstituted Syria. The conversation navigates Horovitz’s impressions from two days in Damascus, the surreal access he had, the broader implications for Syria-Israel relations, the preservation of Jewish heritage in Syria, and the wider question of whether “the new Syria” is genuine or an elaborate diplomatic rebranding.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Nature and Uniqueness of the Visit

• Horovitz as a Trailblazer: David notes he's likely the first Israeli journalist living in Israel to be officially allowed into Syria, under the auspices of the new Syrian leadership.

  "My trip was not risky...I think what is fair to say, as far as I know, is that I’m the first Israeli journalist living in Israel who was allowed into Syria. It was not a sneaky thing, on a visit that was sanctioned by the new Syrian leadership." (04:21, David Horovitz)

• Surreal VIP Treatment: The group, outwardly, obviously Jewish, received VIP-level hospitality, underscoring the new Syrian regime's attempt to rebrand itself.

  "We were in this sort of little bubble of Damascus...I don't claim profound understanding of anything on the basis of 48 hours." (10:45, David Horovitz)

2. Jewish Heritage in Syria: Preservation and Symbolism

• Dura Europos Synagogue Visit: The highlight was entering a protected, climate-controlled room in the Damascus National Museum containing the 2,000-year-old Dura Europos synagogue wall paintings, preserved even under the old Assad regime, an act in stark contrast to the fate of Jewish heritage in other Middle Eastern countries.

  "It was, I don't want to keep saying surreal, but you're in this room and you're overcome by the art because the art is incredibly powerful. And there it is, 2,000 years old..." (17:56, David Horovitz)

• Artifacts and Sifrei Torah: The group was shown rescued, albeit damaged, Torah scrolls and other Jewish artifacts from bombed synagogues. The museum curator insisted on their restoration and eventual public display.

  "She was very adamant... 'please, you know, make clear that we're showing you this because we're trying to preserve them so that they can be restored and exhibited.'" (18:39, David Horovitz)

• Significance of Preservation: Haviv notes the contrast with the destruction of Jewish artifacts elsewhere:

  "I was amazed that the Syria of Assad would protect this ancient Jewish artifact just because. What did I miss? Saddam Hussein’s Iraq threw ancient Jewish texts and parchments into basically basement dungeons that were flooded and destroyed..." (12:06, Haviv Rettig Gur)

3. Syria’s Jewish Past and New Government Messaging

• Official Outreach: Syria’s Foreign Ministry now has a department specifically for Jewish and diaspora affairs, an unprecedented move.
• Syria’s Emptying of Jews: Haviv contextualizes the historical exodus, noting the systematic oppression and eventual near-total emigration of Syria's 30,000 Jews over the 20th century, culminating in a vanishing community of only about six today.

  "The whole story of the Syrian Jewish community is a story of abuse by the Assad regime. And now everything that they were trying to tell you was, that’s not us. This is different." (21:00, Haviv Rettig Gur)

• Invitation for Return: Syrian officials, notably the head of American Affairs, are now voicing a wish for Syrian Jews to return, primarily targeting the Brooklyn diaspora.

  "We want to build relationships with Syrian Jews. We want them to come back. We want to encourage them to come back." (22:19, David Horovitz)

4. Interactions with the New Syrian Leadership

• Profile of Officials: The leadership includes Western-educated, opposition-background ministers, not former militia or hardline Islamist figures, signaling a real personnel shift in governance.

  "These are not people who’ve come from the battlefield...I don’t think they were necessarily natural ministers you would think would be filling key roles in a jihadist government." (30:12, David Horovitz)

• Perception of Urgency: The officials pressed the need for stabilization, economic revival, and forging new international relationships, conceding that failure could mean the collapse of the new Syria.

  "We got the sense that certainly some of the people that we met feel that this is a kind of make or break moment for Syria and they're not playing around if it doesn't work." (33:16, David Horovitz)

5. Skepticism and the “New Syria” Narrative

• Realism about Political Change: Both Haviv and David stress skepticism given the new president’s previous history (radical Sunni Islamism, forced conversions, links to al-Qaeda).

  "Some of the points that were made in the piece were so extraordinary...And yet Ashara, when he ruled Idlib during the civil war period, forcibly converted a village of Christians to his brand of radical Sunnism..." (26:55, Haviv Rettig Gur)

• Signals and Cautions: Haviv points out that these apparent policy shifts and public relations efforts could be calculated moves to regain international acceptance, sanctions relief, and economic lifelines, particularly through positive signals to the Trump administration.

  "Ashara seems to be wanting to avoid becoming Yemen, and that seems to be the priority..." (34:06, Haviv Rettig Gur)

• David’s Skeptical Optimism: While urging caution, David is struck by the rapid assembly of a governing cohort and genuine economic urgency, seeing “reasons for optimism” yet underlining the risks of relapse or insincerity.

  "Are they going to succeed? Are his intentions radically different from the mindset of not so long ago? We'll see." (32:25, David Horovitz)

6. Regional Security, Israel, and New Syrian Policy

• Security Calculus: The Syrian Foreign Ministry official insisted that they have kept Iran and Hezbollah out of the south since the regime change, arguing stability on the Syrian-Israeli border is mutually beneficial.

  "They, the Syrians...managed to prevent Iran and Hezbollah getting established in southern Syria near the Israeli border." (39:30, David Horovitz)

• Israeli Policy Debate: Both discuss Israel’s recent, sometimes aggressive, military responses to perceived threats in Syria, and whether Israel's instinct for preemptive bombing risks further destabilization and inadvertently empowers other hostile forces.

  "Are we overstepping? Was your impression in Syria that really the Israelis now look a little bit like the deranged militant Iranian in the region?" (38:55, Haviv Rettig Gur)

• Emerging Diplomacy: Netanyahu’s cautious openness to engagement with the new Syrian leadership is highlighted, reflecting a possible calculation that a cold, stable border is preferable to chaos.

  "He sees potential for some kind of agreement, even at a limited level, about security arrangements at the border." (28:56, David Horovitz)

• Atmosphere for Jews: Horovitz’s group, very visibly Jewish, walked freely in Damascus neighborhoods, davened in a long-unused shul, and mixed with locals, encountering no hostility—an anecdote both striking and deeply suggestive.

  "In unremarkable, unscripted interactions, a group of us Jews walked around Damascus...and they felt that it was not...it was really the opposite by definition. And we felt safe." (45:22, David Horovitz)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On the Georgian Nature of the Trip:

  "Surreal. That’s the word I used in my piece." (05:40, David Horovitz)

• On Preservation of the Dura Europos Synagogue:

  "And in 1932 it was excavated and yielded this extraordinary find...They built a facility in the National Museum in Damascus, as you say. And indeed it was protected during the Assad era..." (14:12, David Horovitz)

• On Meeting the Syrian Government:

  "We want to build relationships with Syrian Jews. We want them to come back. We want to encourage them to come back." (22:19, David Horovitz)

• On Political Skepticism:

  "Are his intentions radically different from the mindset of not so long ago? We’ll see. But the people we met certainly gave that sense of urgency." (32:25, David Horovitz)

• On Jews in Damascus:

  "In unremarkable, unscripted interactions, a group of us Jews walked around Damascus...and they felt that it was not...it was really the opposite by definition. And we felt safe." (45:22, David Horovitz)

• On Unintended Optimism:

  "There’s something extraordinary about a country that is so eager to get itself put together again it doesn’t even care about Jews. That to me is a very good sign." (46:35, Haviv Rettig Gur)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:04] Guest introduction and reflection on shared journalistic history
• [04:21] David Horovitz describes the uniqueness and official nature of his visit
• [07:53] The surreal VIP arrival and logistics of entering Damascus
• [11:46] On the Dura Europos synagogue and Jewish historical artifacts
• [19:43] The new Syrian regime’s official for Jewish affairs and outreach to diaspora Jews
• [22:19] Only six Jews left in Syria; official claims of wanting Jews to return
• [26:55] Haviv voices skepticism over regime change and outreach sincerity
• [28:56] Assessing the new Syrian government—who are they and are they credible?
• [34:06] The role (and skepticism) of economic priorities in the new Syria
• [38:55] Regional security calculus, Israel’s approach, and Syrian arguments
• [44:00] Experiences walking freely as Jews in Damascus
• [46:35] Outro, optimistic signals and reflection

Tone and Language

Throughout, the tone is candid, reflective, and sometimes astonished, with both participants oscillating between a journalist’s skepticism and a historian's sense of the extraordinary. The language is accessible yet precise, peppered with humor, wariness, and a shared depth of historical context—conveying both the weirdness and potential significance of the events discussed.

Final Thoughts

This detailed firsthand account stands out for its rare access, the visible shift in Syrian diplomatic rhetoric (including toward Jews), and its timely engagement with the big questions of Middle Eastern transformation. The episode balances the hope for a Syria pivoting away from its catastrophic past with an acknowledgment of the deep wounds and self-serving motives that may still lie beneath its surface.

[Link to David Horovitz’s original article in the Times of Israel — see show notes for more]