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Ask Pastor John
Ten Seconds After You Die
00:12:10
Do the souls of believers “sleep” in the grave after death, or do they go to be with the Lord? Pastor John explains the logic of the resurrection.
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On Monday, we looked at how to love a dying unbeliever well, and today we ask what happens when the believer dies. We probably all stood there at a gravesite, looked down at the pile of dirt or the new grass, and we wonder, is he just sleeping there or is he somewhere else entirely? If you've ever wondered whether believers simply sleep in the grave until Christ returns, or do they immediately go to be with Jesus, it's a big question. And to get the answer we need to reconcile 1st Thessalonians 4, verses 16 to 17, the rapture text, with Paul's confidence that the soul is immediately at home with the Lord, as we are about to encounter in our Bible reading in Second Corinthians Chapter five, which is coming up here, I think, late next week. We begin second Corinthians next month today on Ask Pastor John 10 seconds after you die. The question is from Jessica Pastor John, I've been studying 1st Thessalonians 4, and as I do, I'm getting more confused about what happens when believers die. When I read that passage about the dead in Christ rising first and then meeting the Lord in the air, it sounds like believers who have already died don't actually meet Jesus until His second coming. Like maybe their souls are just sleeping or waiting somewhere until the resurrection happens, and that's when they first encounter Christ face to face. But I've always been taught that when a Christian dies, they go immediately to be with Jesus. So which is it? Great question. And here's how Pastor Johnny answered this almost exact question in 2018.
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The reason this is an excellent question is because 1st Thessalonians 4, 16, 17 says that believers who have died are raised from the dead, and in that sense first meet the Lord at His coming rather than immediately meeting him when they die. It sounds like that, but sure, that's not what Paul means there, and I'll try to show why. I think it's really plain from two passages of Scripture that Paul was certain that when he and other believers died, they would go immediately to be with the Lord Jesus and see him in that moment. And Here are those two passages. 2nd Corinthians 5, 6, 9 We are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. We walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. Those are the two alternatives that Paul sees. I'm either here in my body in one sense, away from at homeness with the Lord or I die and I'm at home with the Lord. Now here's verse nine. So whether we are at home or away, whether we're with him or here, we make it our aim to please him. Paul did not conceive of a time when the body dies and we are not at home with the Lord. To die is to lose the body temporarily and go to be at home with the Lord. This is not his first choice. I mean that's one of the things we might correct at funerals is not to give the impression that a disembodied at homeness with the Lord is the first apostolic choice. His first choice is oh, that the Lord Jesus would come before I die and over clothed my body with eternal life. But he says if we die it was better. So his third choice is stay here and work. His second choice is go to be with Jesus without my body. His first choice is come Lord Jesus and give me a new body so that I never have to be bodiless. The other passage is Philippians 1:22 if I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I'm hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Now those are the two possibilities for Paul. And one of them was not to die and have the soul lie in the grave sleeping. That wasn't the choice, die and have the soul lie in the grave sleeping until the second coming. No, the two possibilities were go on living here or go to be with Christ, which is far, far better. So I conclude Paul had no doubts about being united with with conscious joy by faith in this life. And it would never be interrupted by death. And when he left his body when he was martyred, he would go to something far better than even the communion that he enjoyed with Christ. Here now let's say a word about 1 Thessalonians 4. And here you got to put on your thinking cap because I'm sorry the logic of this text is so important. I think it's clear, but it's complicated. It goes like this. Since we believe this is 1 Thessalonians 4, we'll start at verse 14. Since we believe that Christ died and rose again, even so through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. Now that sounds like he means to bring them with him from heaven, where in fact they are. In fact there are souls in heaven. We just Argued for that from 2 Corinthians 5, 8 and Philippians 1. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. Now that too might sound like we are already in our souls, body in the grave, souls with Jesus in the presence of the Lord. Lord. And in that sense, those still on earth have not preceded them into the presence of Christ. But here's the problem. Now comes the argument. The argument for why those who are left who are alive will not precede those who have died goes like this, verse 16:4. Because we won't precede them because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise first. That's why we won't precede them. They rise. They rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up together. Not a first and second together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. So the argument for why those who are alive at the Lord's coming will not precede those who have died is that those who have died will rise first. Then we will all go together. No ranking. Oh, you got to go first together to meet the Lord in the air. No first, no seconds altogether. So here's my conclusion when I put these three passages together. Precede in first, Thessalonians 4:15 does not refer to the dead preceding the living into the presence of the Lord in heaven, which of course, they clearly do. Paul's just not talking about that. Rather, precede refers to preceding with a resurrection body into the glorious experience of the second coming. Let me say that again, because that's what the argument of verses 16 and 17 demands, that precede means precede. We won't precede the dead. Precede where? Preceding them with resurrection bodies into the glorious experience of the second coming. In other words, what Paul is saying in 1st Thessalonians 4, 15 is the living won't have any advantage over the dead when it comes to the fullest enjoyment of that day, that resurrection second coming day, including bodily sight and enjoyment and bodily celebration of the second coming. Because the dead in Christ shall rise first. In other words, before there is any glorious gathering to meet the Lord in the air, the bodies of all believers who have died will be raised from the dead, reunited with their souls. And then the entire Christian church, the living and and the resurrected will together meet the Lord and welcome him to establish his rightful kingdom.
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Complicated. Wow. Paul did not conceive of a time when the body dies and we are not at home with the Lord. That's the key point. So here's the timeline. When the believer dies, the soul goes straight to Jesus. No Napoleon, no sleep, no waiting around. The resurrection of the body happens later. But the moment we die in Christ, the moment we are away from the body, we are at home with him. Ten seconds after we die.
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Home.
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What a precious promise. And if you have not read Pastor John's 2023 book, Come Lord Jesus, I commend it to you. As we wait for his returning. That's a theme in this this episode. It's a the theme of his 2023 book, Come Lord Jesus, I commend it to you. And for more on end of life topics, and there are many of them to think through, see the Ask Pastor John book, that final section on suicide, euthanasia and the will to live on pages 441 to 449. There's a lot that we've covered. Suffering for joy, Suffering for joy. Suffering for greater joy. Eternally. Pastor John rejoins us in the studio on Monday to explain 2 Corinthians 4:17. Because when May begins, we will be reading 2nd Corinthians together and we get a primer on the book next time when Pastor John is in studio with us again. I'll see you on Monday. Thanks for listening.