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Ask Pastor John
The God Who Gives You Worth
00:10:28
Is God’s pursuit of his glory and man’s pursuit of our joy a selfish transaction? Pastor John insists on keeping our joy in God connected to God himself.
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Transcript5 lines
- [00:04]
A
Last time we looked at God's God centeredness, that we get the grace, he gets the glory, we get the pleasure, he gets the praise. It's awesome. God does everything for his own glory. And for many people who hear that, they ask, well, if God does everything for his own glory, doesn't that make him selfish? Like we just exist to boost his ego a bit. Maybe we get some joy on the side as a byproduct of what is basically a transaction between us and God. And if that's the case, then what worth do we have in ourselves? Today on Ask Pastor John, the God who gives you worth. About a month ago we were reading 2nd Corinthians 1:24 together, that incredible text where Paul's ministry was set forth as we work with you for your joy. Horizontally, ministry works towards a commutual joy in God, a shared joy among us. Alexi, a young woman writes in who is trying to figure out all of this in her vertical relationship with God. She writes this. Hello Pastor John. I really appreciate all that you do at Desiring God. I grew up in a Christian home and I first encountered the idea of Christian hedonism two years ago. When I first read your book Desiring God, I wanted to understand how God can still be good towards us if he does everything for his own glory. I know and understand that he is supremely valuable and that the best thing he could ever do is give us Himself. So in doing everything for his glory, we also receive the greatest good. It's a win win situation for both of us. He gets the glory, we get the joy. However, I think I'm missing something because this doesn't make me rejoice in how much God loves me. It sounds more like a transaction. We seek our joy and God gets His glory. God seeks his glory and we get joy. As I understand it, both sides act for themselves and it just so happens that the other side benefits. Could you please help me grasp how this reflects our love for God and His love for us rather than selfishness on both sides? Thank you.
- [01:52]
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That is a well put question.
- [01:53]
A
Yeah, it is.
- [01:54]
B
I very much appreciate somebody reading that carefully and asking a question that penetrating. But there's a problem in the very way that Alexei poses the problem. She says we seek our joy, God gets the glory, God seeks His glory. We, we get joy. Both sides act for themselves and it just so happens that the other side benefits. Could you please help me grasp how this reflects our love for God and His love for us rather than selfishness on both sides and the Problem with this is that Alexei omits the very thing that keeps our quest for joy and God's pursuit of glory from being selfish. In fact, she doesn't just omit it, she excludes it with the words. It just so happens that the other side benefits. So the way she has restated Christian hedonism is that I seek my joy, and then it just so happens, as it were randomly, that God is glorified and God seeks his glory. And then it just so happens, as it were randomly, that I am made glad. But you can't expect an argument to work if you treat as random what is in fact purposeful, personal and essential to the argument. So what's been left out? Alexei describes Christian hedonism like, we seek our joy and God gets glory. God seeks his glory and we get joy. Both sides act for themselves. What's missing is this. We seek our joy in God, in the goodness and wisdom and power and grace and beauty of God. And God thus gets glory because we find in God so much satisfaction. And God seeks his glory by saving us, working for us, transforming us, revealing Himself to us, making us beautiful, conforming us to the likeness of His Son to reflect his glory, like His Son reflects his glory, and thus we experience joy in God. You can't just say, we seek joy and God seeks glory, period. It's a transaction and make the argument work. It won't. Lots of joy seeking is selfish. Lots of glory seeking is vain. Christian hedonism is deeply aware of this. We don't just talk in terms of people seeking happiness and God seeking glory. We talk of people seeking happiness in God and we talk of God being glorified in us. When she sets up Christian hedonism like this, I think it's understandable why Alexei would say, this doesn't make me rejoice in how much God loves me. Which is perhaps the same as saying, I don't see why this is not selfishness. Let me see if I can help, because I do feel loved by God, because He is this way. And God wants me to feel loved, and he wants all of his children to feel loved. He wants you, Alexei, to enjoy being loved by the Son and by the Father. So let's consider Jesus prayer in John 17:24, see if we can get at the nub of the problem. He says, jesus prays, I desire that they also, Father, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am to see my glory. Now I wonder if Alexei would feel more loved if Jesus stopped after the words with me, Father. I desire that Alexei, whom you have given me, may be with me. Period. I want you to be with me, Alexei. I certainly feel loved when Jesus says that to me. And my guess is that Alexei does too. We both say Jesus wants us. He wants us. He wants us to be with Him. That's one of the greatest realities of salvation. He died for us so that we could be with him forever. First Thessalonians 5, 10. I say it to myself virtually every night. He died for us so that whether we wake or sleep, we might live with Him. And with him means fullness of joy, pleasures forevermore. According to Psalm 16:11. Ephesians 2, 5, 7 says that the great love. In great love, God made us alive so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness, kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. In other words, Christ died for us. God regenerated us so that he might have us with him and spend immeasurable ages lavishing kindness on us. That's breathtaking. So why would it be that when Jesus adds the words, I want you to be with me to see my glory, or when Paul adds the words in Ephesians 1:6 to the praise of the glory of God's grace, it somehow feels as though we're not being loved anymore. And now God has become selfish by adding the words to see my glory or for the glory of my grace. Now, I don't want to assume the worst here. I really don't. I don't believe Alexei is guilty of what I'm about to say. It's warning. But let me sound a warning to all of us. I have met people who cannot feel loved by God, it seems, unless their own worth as a person is the basis of God's love for them. And therefore my whole theology is anathema to them. Makes me weep. The Bible does not teach that God loves us because of our worth. He loves us by sending his own Son to die for undeserving, ungodly enemies and thus giving us worth. And that worth consists in the beauty of our conformity to his son. Romans 8:29. He loves us at the cost of the life of His Son in order to display the greatness of his grace in our beautification for His Son's bride. This is what it is to be loved for the glory of God.
- [09:02]
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Yes, an alien dignity. The Bible does not teach that God loves us because of our worth. He loves us by sending his own Son to die for undeserving, ungodly enemies. And thus giving us worth. Amen. God loves us so much to transform us and then delights in our transformed selves. By giving us the eyes to see his beauty and by letting us reflect his beauty back to Himself, he gives us worth. It's not selfish. It's really love at its most supreme expression. Eternal shared joy. This episode is right at the heart of what we find most precious here at Desiring God. And of course, this all means that our delight in God is tied to his glory. And of course, there's a small hill of practical questions to work out here because I don't feel joy in God all the time, nor does Pastor John. And so we've kind of picked up on that dilemma over the years. You can see what we've covered in the Ask Pastor John book on deadness, Depression and desertion. That's a section in the book on deadness, Depression and desertion. Specifically that question, isn't God most glorified in us when we most desire him? That's on page 402. It's one of those practical dilemmas to work out. It's very important. See that book on page 402. Thank you, Pastor John, and thanks for joining us today. If you have a question to ask Pastor John, find a link to email us and find our complete episode archive at the same place ask pastorjohn.com I'm Tony Reinke. See you back here on Monday.