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Ask Pastor John
When Your Pastor Feels Distant
00:14:56
How can the pastor of a growing church care for each member? Pastor John encourages shepherds to care tenderly for the flock and depend on God’s mercy.
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- [00:04]
A
Well, it seems to be a very common dilemma for a growing church. Predictable even. The pastor, the guy we all knew so personally, a friend and the shepherd of the flock, slowly begins to feel more distant as the pews get fuller and fuller. As things change, the pastor becomes more of a voice and a microphone rather than a friend who knows your name and everything about your life. This is one of the good problems of a growing church to wrestle with. But how does a leader bridge this gap to the best of his ability? And how does a congregation come to understand that the changes that come in a growing church Today on Ask Pastor John when your pastor feels distant, the question today is from a pastor, an anonymous man. Pastor John, hello to you from a longtime listener and a fairly new pastor of a small but growing church. Paul describes his pastoral ministry with tender imagery like nursing mother caring for her children in 1st Thessalonians 2, verses 7 and 8. And he emphasized a willingness not only to share the gospel, but his very life with the people. In light of this model, how did you approach the work of pastoral care for individuals and families under your shepherding? What principles shaped your ministry to the hurting, the wandering and the grieving, especially as your church began to grow? How did you balance spiritual counsel from the pulpit, practical support and emotional presence?
- [01:25]
B
The first thing to say is that I don't think I ever got this exactly right. I don't even know what exactly right looks like when it comes to every member being known and cared for and held accountable by biblically qualified church leaders in a church, say, like ours that was growing from 300 to 4,000 over 30 years. Like so many things in the New Testament, we're given guidelines but not blueprints. I think the only way a conscientious pastor can survive over decades of ambiguity. And here I guess I'm just speaking out of my own personality or situation. Decades of ambiguity and a sense of inadequacy is to lean on the blood bought forgiving mercy of Christ and try over and over again to do it better. At least that's my autobiography. I feel like I never did much better than B minus or, I don't know, C when it comes to how do you know everybody, how do you care for everybody and not just speak from the pulpit? So let me mention a few biblical texts that I think embody some of these guidelines, and then I'll give my own personal testimony of how I tried over the years to flesh those guidelines out. First Peter 5, 2, 3 Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising Oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you, not for shameful gain, but eagerly. Not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. So the guideline is, by all means, lead the church like a shepherd leads to green pastures and still waters and safety from wolves, but do it for the right motives. Don't do it for money, and don't do it begrudgingly, and do it joyfully. And don't do it with a domineering spirit to puff yourself up, but with a lowly spirit of Christlike incarnation getting down low and coming alongside the people and being an example of what you're trying to preach. So That's Godline number one. Number two, first Thessalonians 2, 7. We were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children. So being affectionately desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God, but our own selves, because you had become very dear to us. Oh, don't you love the Apostle Paul? He just was so theologically rich and so tenderly personal. So the guideline is to love your people with tender affection, not just dutifully, but with heartfelt affection. We open our heart and life to our people. That's what we do do. If we're shepherds. We're not distant or closed or evasive or detached or aloof. That's not the way we do it. If that's the way you are by nature, you need to plead with God that he would change you. There are personality types that probably should not be pastors. So that's number two. Number three, Acts 20:20. Paul says to the elders of Ephesus, I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, teaching you in public and from house to house. So the guideline here is that it is pastorally helpful not only to teach the people in large groups, as from a pulpit, but but in smaller groups in informal settings. I don't think this is a mandate that a pastor must be in every member's house. We don't know how many people gathered in those house meetings. But the guideline is a shepherd is not content to speak from a distance to a crowd, but seeks out other, less formal gatherings for instruction and common life. And then finally, number four. Hebrews 13:17. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls. As those who have to give an account, let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. So the guideline for pastors here is to joyfully keep watch over the souls of their members in the awareness, the weighty awareness, that we will give an account to Christ for how we did this. So that's the list of guidelines. And it could go on and on. Really. It's not just four, but these few are what our friend wrote about. I mean, this is what he asked about, especially the relationship between the public ministry and of the pulpit and the personal ministry among the people. So here's some of the ways that I tried to flesh out both of those kind of both end ministry, public ministry and personal ministry. I always viewed the pulpit as my primary way of shepherding the people, feeding the people, leading the people, protecting the people, strengthening the people, teaching the people, seeking to transform their minds, comforting them, guiding them, encouraging them, correcting them, even being an example to them. All of that I saw that's what you do in the pulpit. Some of those don't go elsewhere. Only I think the pulpit is where emotional health and humility and strength and transparency begin in the local church. If they don't see it there, where are they going to see it? This is what people see over and over again. That's why it's so primary. They see it over and over and over again. This is what visitors see when they come. Does he communicate A genuine, healthy embodiment of biblical truth. That's what they. That's what they look for and that's what they ought to see. It's possible, I think, to be radically God centered and at the same time deeply personal and transparent. He says what I tried to do felt that's the right thing to do. It is possible for the sheep to feel that they really do know their shepherd because of how he communicates his soul, his mind, his heart, his emotions. In the pulpit in the early days when I was the only pastor, or maybe there were two, we hired a number two guy pretty quickly. When I came to a church of about 300 in attendance. I visited people in the hospital, all of them. Anybody got sick, I was there. I was at the side. When someone died, I go to their home and grieve with them. I did all the funerals, I did the weddings. Noel and I opened our home and we invited everyone in the church to open houses at Christmas. We had to do it over more than one weekend. We held new members class in our living room for years. We had a Sunday evening service where I did not wear my dark suit and tie, which I did for very intentionally where on Sunday morning and I could Give a whole rationale for why that was. I came down out of the pulpit on Sunday evening on the level floor with an overhead projector, and I dressed differently, I talked differently, I took questions, I became very personal. We described Sunday morning as the Mount of Transfiguration, where the disciples fell down on their faces before the glory of the Lord. And we described Sunday evening as the Mount of Olives, where Jesus stretched out on the grass on his elbow with his disciples and spoke to them about how things were going. And then there were Wednesdays. We had Wednesdays. And I taught Wednesdays in the same manner. Very open, very personal and relational. So I wanted people to see Piper is a thundering prophet on Sunday morning who could also be very nurse like and tender. But he dresses up, he is reverent, there is dignity, there is awe, and he's another person on Sunday night because that's the way the gospel is and that's the way God is. He's both of those kinds of realities. So I tried to take the people to both theological and practical reality and all of the Christian life brought into the pulpit and the more personal, smaller gatherings. As a church grew, as it grew from 0 elders to 40 elders, we didn't have any. When I came, I had to persuade the church that elders were biblical. Took 10 years to do that. But then eventually we had pastor type elders, and we divided the church into small groups with trained small group leaders and accountable elders. They were accountable to elders. And we tried in that way to see to it that everyone was known and accountable. And as the church became thousands instead of hundreds, the way I made myself available to pray with people was to linger after services as long as they wanted to, to share a burden. I said to them very publicly, I said, this is not a time for extended pastoral counseling. We can't do this for three hours, but I will hear any burden if it leads to prayer. And so that's what I did. And I would typically stay for an hour or more after that second service. First service, you'd only do it for about 20 minutes. But I would stay until they're all gone. I was regularly the last person to walk out of the sanctuary absolutely exhausted, because standing there and praying with people, more taxing than preaching. And yet everybody knew the pastor does that. Anybody in this church can walk right up to him, take his hand, speak in his ear, cry on his shoulder, and get prayer from our preaching pastor. I think the fact that only maybe you can number the people in hundreds who did that instead of thousands all of them knew about it. And that made a huge difference in the way they perceived me and my availability. My shepherd bent. So there's lots more that could be said. But I think the main point, our friend for our friend who's asking this is know the biblical guidelines. Pray them into your heart. And as situations change in your church, just keep trying your very best. Various strategies to mingle. Public and personal ministry.
- [13:17]
A
Yeah. Some great memories of Saturday night, Bethlehem downtown services, talking with friends for 30 or 45 minutes and then leaving and looking back. And there always was a line waiting to meet or talk with Pastor John on Saturday nights. And you'd be there.
- [13:30]
B
Yeah. And I remember making clear too, this is not a time for signatures. We don't do autographs here. This is for prayer. And the people obeyed. They didn't. I mean, even. Even guests felt very self conscious doing more than just praying.
- [13:45]
A
Yeah. Special time. Like so many things in the New Testament, we're given guidelines, not blueprints. Yeah. No perfect blueprint for this. In the New Testament, pastors lead from true care, not for money, not domineering, but with a lowly Christlike affection for their flock, no matter the size of the church, opening their lives to the people in whatever ways are possible. But a hospitality that has begun from behind the microphone and in the pulpit. That's a line that I wrote down. Quote, it is possible for the sheep to feel that they really do know their shepherd because of how he communicates his soul, his mind, his heart, his emotions in the pulpit. Yeah. Thank you for all this, Pastor John. And if you are in the process of trying to find a new local church, what should you look for in that church and its leadership? See the Ask Pastor John book on pages 417 to 428 for more on making that crucial decision. Thank you for joining us today. If you have a question to ask Pastor John, find a link to email us and find our complete episode archive at the same place. Ask Pastor John. God's plan for your prayers. That's next. I'm Tony Reinke. I'll see you on Thursday.