← At Work with The Ready
At Work with The Ready
25. 1M Downloads and Counting: Looking Back on 2024
00:34:45
Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin look back at the topics they covered in 2024, and celebrate Rodney’s 200th episode!
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- [00:02]
A
What kind of plant would you consider yourself to be?
- [00:05]
B
What is this thing? Is a check in round? Is this a mid episode check in round?
- [00:08]
A
Yeah, man. Do you know any kinds of plants, just out of curiosity? Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I'm Rodney Evans and that guy is my co host, Sam Sperlin.
- [00:22]
B
What up, Rodney Evans. How are you on this fine day?
- [00:25]
A
I am great. I got SAP in my hair. Welcome to our Work with the Ready and it's a podcast about work. It's about modeling modernizing organizations as the future of work tumbles toward us and meets us here in the present.
- [00:38]
B
And as you all know, each episode we turn our attention to one common organizational pattern that we think is worth digging into. And we pull it apart like a couple of kids going ham on some presents on Christmas morning. And we propose solutions for what to do instead. But like I said, we're not actually doing that today because today is a fun retro episode.
- [00:57]
A
It's a kickback, it's a look back. We're going to retro our year as co hosts, making this show and talk about the best and the worst of what we have made here together in 2024.
- [01:09]
B
Hell yeah. Let's check in though first.
- [01:12]
A
Should we? I totally forgot about that part. So number one is Rodney doesn't remember the format of the show. That's the first retrospective point.
- [01:24]
B
This is going to be a good one, I can already tell. Rodney, what is your relationship to New Year resolutions?
- [01:30]
A
Hate them. I hate them. I think they're stupid and I hate them. Okay. I like to have intentions for myself and for the year, maybe. But I do feel like so often New Year's resolutions, when I see how people approach them, don't feel very, like, grounded in the reality of the present. They feel a lot like what like leadership teams do when they make strategy, where they're just like, what if we were different people, people working at a different company in a different world? What would we do then? You know? And it's like, I'm not going to run a marathon next year. I don't even want to. And I feel like that's the problem with resolutions. And so to the extent that like, I have routines that I want to install, et cetera, I'm much more of someone who's like, this month, every day I'm gonna practice the cello before 9am because after that the day gets away from me, which I've been doing. P.S. and it's going great because I have a new teacher and I'm low key, terrified of him. And for me, that works better than, like an annual goal.
- [02:43]
B
Yeah.
- [02:44]
A
And you, Senior Sperlin, similarly, I think.
- [02:48]
B
One kind of evolution of my thinking about New Year resolutions is that I am more on board with the idea that it's cool to get, like, a burst of motivation at the turn of the year. And using that burst of motivation toward a personal development goal of some sort is awesome. And I'm very supportive of that. And I think everything you said about kind of the form that that often takes leaves things to be desired. But in general, I have tried to be less curmudgeonly about New Year resolutions and just like, be happy for people. I don't really do New Year resolutions.
- [03:29]
A
Just let them have their resolutions.
- [03:32]
B
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. One last little bonus here. This is your 200th episode of this podcast and I have a question about that later so we can all.
- [03:43]
A
Me too.
- [03:44]
B
Congratulations. 200 episodes, two and 200 of anything is a lot. And 200, you know, nearly hour long episodes of a podcast, that's. That's a lot.
- [03:56]
A
That's a lot of episodes. Well, thank you and thanks for being on this show with me. And thank you to the people who are listening to it. There's so many of you. It truly blows my mind. It's been really fun. It's been really fun and I'm excited to make. I don't know If I'll make 200 more, but I'm excited to make one more today.
- [04:14]
B
I mean, this isn't going to be the last one as far as I know. This retro goes really off the rails.
- [04:21]
A
It's actually something that I want to talk to you about at the end.
- [04:23]
B
We're actually done.
- [04:26]
A
Just. I want you to really enjoy this one, Sam. I'm just kidding.
- [04:30]
B
Thank you.
- [04:31]
A
No, we have big, big plans for 2025 that Sam and I and Jack are super excited about. So we thought it would be nice to, like, wind this year up with a little bit of reflection so that we can go fucking ham on our 2025 season.
- [04:46]
B
That's right.
- [04:47]
A
I'm going to start with a question about taking over co host duties. You know, when I asked you to do the future of HR arc with me, it was like a little flyer because you and I weren't working together on anything. I felt like you would just be good at it because you like talking and I like talking to you. And we did a test episode and it was like knife through butter. So smooth, so fun, so easy. We made that arc and then you graciously agreed to keep on doing this. What was like hard about taking over and what was easy?
- [05:31]
B
Yeah, I got you good stuff. And the bad stuff, I mean, the glib answer, and I promise I will go deeper than this, is that it's felt actually quite easy across the board, which is probably why, you know, we're still doing it and I think having a lot of fun. That being said, you know, I think there was definitely less so now, but more so early on. You know, you don't replace an Aaron. Like, sure, I have such huge respect for Aaron and, you know, starting this company and writing the book. And for a little bit of the time it was like, it just feels like I'm discount Aaron on the. On the podcast. And if I just discount Aaron, like, this is not going to go great. So I got to like, just figure out my own thing that I'm bringing to it and not worry so much about who used to be in this spot. So that was definitely in my head early on. And then just from like a making of the podcast, I think you and I have really challenged ourselves to not just make generic episodes about topics. Yeah, like, there's so much that we like. We can just take a thing from the OS canvas and talk about it for an hour. We're both very capable of that. But our idea for this run of the podcast is to take a very specific pattern, a very specific slice of something that is happening within organizations and really try to unpack that potentially very narrow, very small thing and just finding those and finding ones that are specific. But there's enough there to actually talk about for 45 minutes. It's been a good intellectual challenge. Talking to you has not been hard. Just showing up and like doing the episodes. Like, I think actually I am surprised that there's more prep involved than maybe I had assumed because all other podcasts that I've done have just been of the flavor where me and my co host, we show up and we shoot the shit for a while and we do that. But we also have a decent amount of prep kind of behind the scenes for what we are going to talk about. And I didn't quite have my mind wrapped around that in the first couple of episodes, but now I feel like we have all the structure in place and the routines around kind of doing that prep ahead of time where it feels complete but not overwhelming.
- [07:52]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [07:53]
B
Let me ask you a question that's not even on here. What has your experience been of me taking over as co host? Same question, I guess. What has been hard or Surprising about having somebody else in this seat. You've done 200 episodes. The vast majority of those were with Aaron. So what has been different for you?
- [08:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, similar to things that you said, I think Aaron and my show was very much about just he and I having a time to kind of catch up and nerd out about something. And we didn't do a lot of prep. It was quite windy and that was like, I think what we both wanted to do at the time. It was like we were very much in the place of a growing company or two and a lot of like sense making and a lot of just exploration. And so I think that you moving into the co host seat was a really good forcing function to be like, let's not make that show. Like, let's not make the show that Aaron and I made because A, it's not gonna be the same and B, like this is an opportunity to think differently about what we're doing. And I think that actually the podcast is a little bit of a microcosm of what's happened at the ready, which is you and I and Jack really run this podcast like a small, cross functional dialed team. And like we have strategy meetings, we have metrics, we have retrospectives, we have feedback loops with our listeners and with our internal members and with our clients. Like, it is not two good friends with microphones vibing anymore. Now it is something that is supposed to do something and we determine that each season what it's supposed to do. And so I think what was hard for me is that initially that felt like it was going to be a lot more work actually, to try to like be thoughtful and disciplined and have a point of view and run this like a team and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Actually over time, because we've built systems, it's easier. So it's like you and I and Jack have a lot of role clarity. I have time in my calendar to do certain things. 90% of our prep is async. Like, the show has performed super, super well with you in this seat. And that was only just like the most visible change. Like we made a lot, a lot of other changes under the hood that people probably weren't really aware of. And so that was the part that was a little bit hard for me to get my head around. I was like, this is a lot of levers to pull at once, right? But now it feels just like easy, easy and smooth. And it feels like we're making the shows that people want to hear. We're like in real conversation with the audience and with the market and with our clients. And so that just feels great.
- [10:57]
B
Cool. Yeah, yeah, that sounds. That sounds good. I do have one kind of variation on that question, which is just with the 200 episodes, what do you feel like has been your growth as a podcaster from episode one, you know, 15 years ago to episode 200 today? That was hyperbolic. It wasn't 15 years. It just felt that way.
- [11:21]
A
I mean, I learned a ton from making this show 200 times. But I think the thing that I would say to people who are doing anything creative or putting anything out into the world, which is like, probably going to sound a little bit trite, but, you know, we get a lot of really lovely notes and comments from listeners, and then we get like the occasional finger wag, blah, blah, blah. I'm just of the perspective that personally, for me to be able to do this show 200 times and however many more times I do it, like, I just have to do it the way that I want to do it. And I understand that that probably has cost opportunities because I say fuck and it probably has been off putting to certain people. I don't like the sort of, like, bluntness with which I view and describe the world and probably a million other things that I don't need to know about because they would make me sad. The point is, I'd rather make a show that is really for some people, even if it alienates other people, than try to make a show that's kind of for everybody. And I just would say for anybody who's doing anything in the world, whether you're making a podcast or you're writing a book or you're making music or you're giving speeches or whatever. Like, first of all, it's way easier for people to sit behind a keyboard and accuse you of whatever the fuck who haven't done shit in front of anybody than it is to actually do something. And second of all, like, be really for a smaller group of people than just palatable to everybody because, like, what's the fun in that?
- [13:10]
B
There's no fun in that.
- [13:11]
A
I would say that noise. I don't want to do that ever.
- [13:14]
B
All right, cool. All right. I was going to say we're stop being so navel gazy, but that's really kind of the theme of the whole episode.
- [13:19]
A
That's a little point of retrospection.
- [13:21]
B
Keep staring into these belly buttons.
- [13:23]
A
Okay, I get to ask you a question now. Stop it.
- [13:26]
B
Okay, okay, I shut up now.
- [13:30]
A
And that's what makes Sam a great Co host, I shut up now. What was your favorite episode this season?
- [13:38]
B
I had a really hard time landing on one. It was a combination of liking basically everything we've made and also having a horrible memory. So what I landed on for this is the episode we did on Races, what I liked about that one. So it's a very specific thing. Right? Like we're doing an episode on not just like decision making in general, but like literally the thing called a racy or its various incarnations. Let's talk about that. And I think we actually approached it in a pretty nuanced way because the glib kind of ham fisted way we could talk about racies is like racies, what are you doing? Like it's the wrong thing. You're not going to get what you want out of it. Like we mostly agree with that, but there's the impulse behind the racy and the desire to make a racy and get clarity on those types of things. I think we both really recognize as incredibly valuable and the type of thing that we can work with. So I just, I just liked that we tackled a very specific thing that lots of people are doing and we gave some really concrete things about what to do instead. When I pictured this podcast and what we're trying to do, that episode for me feels kind of like just a good example of it.
- [14:50]
A
Yeah, I agree. It's also funny, I was talking to Ali yesterday about stuff and one of the best org design lessons that I learned many times from working with Ali because I tend to get very like Beautiful Mindy about systems thinking and be like I need to understand all of the prop blah blah is Ali is very, very good as I'm sure you know at like finding a specific pattern or element of work and being like this is representative of everything. So just we just need to deeply understand this and we can mostly understand the big thing. And the racy episode felt like a really good example of that of just like take this one marker of complication and unpack it and understand it and you'll kind of understand what a complicated answer to a complex problem really is.
- [15:45]
B
Yeah. And I've just started working with Allie on a project, so I think I've always known that about her just conceptually, but now I get to experience it viscerally as her partner on a project. So I'm excited for that. So yeah, I think it's. It's just a fun one. I hope we find more of those things. If you have examples like that where you think there's something in Your organization that everybody does and, like, holds up as this example of, oh, we're doing it really well, and you have a suspicion that it's a complicated solution to a complex problem.
- [16:13]
A
You should send us an email, hit us up. Yeah, we want to hear that.
- [16:16]
B
What was your favorite episode this year?
- [16:19]
A
My favorite episode was Leaders as Org Designers. And it was a really fun episode to make. And it was one of those things where at a point in time, it was coming up a lot in my work, both externally and internally. It felt really good to sort of take a position about it when you and I made that episode and to be in dialogue about it. And then subsequently it has informed so many other things, including like how I think the Future Ready is going to be structured, how I'm thinking about my own role and what about it is really subject matter expertise and what about it is really org design how I'm thinking about. Like, Org design is basically a subsystem in our structure. It was one of those things that was both a summarization and a distillation of what I had learned that actually turned into the seed of learning a bunch more stuff and really informing significant choices in my work. And I love it when that happens. And now that that's happened and now that it's so present, it feels very like red pill to me. Where now I'm looking around and I'm like, this is actually the answer to a bunch of things. To a bunch of things. So I would say that one.
- [17:45]
B
That's cool. It makes me want to go back and listen to the episode. It sounds like it was a good one.
- [17:49]
A
It was, but it was a good one on the other side of things. What episode would you do over if you could have a. What's that called again? A McGulligan? A McGillicuddy Mulligan from the I Love Lucy Show. Yeah, a mulligan.
- [18:09]
B
I wouldn't want it to be a mulligan in the sense that it replaces what we made. Because I think what we made was really good. But it would just be another crack at that same time basic idea. And it's just. It was the all the Small Things episode. So the mundane stuff episode. I think there's a lot more that we could talk about in the category of like the mundane stuff to sweat if you're trying to do this work in an organization. And I think we. That one kind of feels like an introductory sort of episode. And I feel like we could do a deeper level on it because for me, and I get A little bit into this. In the episode, there's, like, this paradox of the really boring, mundane shit where you hear me say something. You're like, like, how does that actually matter? Like, that's just you being very persnickety about a way to do something and that just being like a. A peephole into a larger universe of, like, how we do everything. And I don't know that it was particularly articulate about that aspect of it in the episode, and I'd love to take another crack at kind of the philosophical connection to really caring about the mundane stuff.
- [19:15]
A
Yeah. Also, I mean, I do feel like the mundane is your love language, basically. So I think probably once a season, we should just give you an episode where you can really be comfortable.
- [19:28]
B
Bring my backlog of stuff that I've thought about, and we just kind of.
- [19:33]
A
Rattle through it, and we just let you have your time to shine and just talk about habits and routines and.
- [19:40]
B
Yes.
- [19:41]
A
Technology, passwords, and I don't know, we should just. We should just let. Let the old man have one. You know what I mean?
- [19:49]
B
Like, I mean, if we have. We'll have that in the. In the. In the quiver for, like, if you ever. If you're ever sick or something. You can't make an episode. It's like, all right, just let Sam just let him loose for an hour, and he'll. He'll do his thing.
- [20:01]
A
Yeah, you definitely don't need me there. Also, Jack, I want you to link in wherever you put this to the thing. Jack DM'd me a thing the other night that was from, I think, a podcast where two women are talking, and one of them doesn't use the calendar on her. She uses no digital calendar.
- [20:18]
B
Yeah, I saw that.
- [20:19]
A
And the other one is like, I'm breaking out. Yeah. Because I'm also, like, incredibly organized, but it just. It tickled me.
- [20:33]
B
I mean, there are aspects of that relationship that I think is true for our relationship as well, but maybe not the calendar thing.
- [20:40]
A
Probably not the calendar thing. I'm pretty. I'm pretty wedded to that. Yeah.
- [20:44]
B
All right. What about you? What's your episode that you want to take another crack at?
- [20:47]
A
Well, I mean, I would obviously love to be there for a future Jason Fox episode. He and I got to catch up the other night one on one, because I wasn't there for the recording, and it was just. Just, like, super fun, and I felt like I could talk to him for three more hours and hopefully will someday, but besides that, because I just missed it. Not exactly this season. But, like, I really have a hankering to do a bunch more on future of hr. I mean, now that we have so many future of HR projects, like when you and I made that arc, it was a very well researched and very well validated, like, early body of work. And we had done work with clients that was very related. Like, we had proof of concept.
- [21:34]
B
Yeah.
- [21:35]
A
And we had real market validation of the ideas and we had first projects launched. But now a year later, like, we know so so much that we didn't know then. And now I just feel like there's so much expertise in the ready about what HR is and what it should become and what it is holding it back. And, like, I think if I went back and listened to those episodes now, I'd be like yelling at the speaker to just be like, no, it's. You need to say this thing. This is actually the most important thing. So I would love another crack at that.
- [22:11]
B
Yeah, this. This would be a really good one to bring some of our colleagues in. The folks who have been doing this work for the last year, either they can just take my spot or they can join us as a third or a fourth. But there's a lot of expertise that has been developed over the last year that. That did not show up in our ver of those podcasts because we just hadn't done it yet.
- [22:31]
A
We just hadn't done it like that yet. Yeah. Now I'm just to the point where I like, want every chro in America to meet Sharon and be like, listen to her. Listen to her. Like, listen to what is happening.
- [22:42]
B
I mean, that was true before fohr too, because.
- [22:45]
A
Fair enough.
- [22:45]
B
Now it's super true.
- [22:47]
A
Now it's super true. Super true.
- [22:49]
B
All right.
- [22:51]
A
Okay. Okay, let's do this one. If you had to give 2024, a theme doesn't just have to be podcast related, just life theme. What is the theme of your 2024?
- [23:07]
B
My theme is repotting. So taking a plant from one place and sticking it in another. There's like so many of those things that have happened for me this year. So I've literally moved many states. I moved from Virginia to New York earlier this year after living in Virginia for like six and a half years. There's that whole very literal kind of repotting of myself and my routines and just being in a new place. You know, my client engagements this year where there have been years at the ready where I was just like on one client for the entire year or maybe maybe two. I had several client engagements this year, more than a typical year. And across those engagements, I was playing, in some cases, some different roles, trying to be more focused on kind of like bringing other people along, long at the ready, into the project steward role. So there's just been. It was not a. Just another year of like doing what I've always been doing in some ways, which. Which felt cool. And then obviously we've already talked about it, but doing this podcast and the significant amount of work that has gone into moving into the co host seat is very new this year. And yeah, that's what I'm landing on. Repotting.
- [24:24]
A
Nice. What kind of.
- [24:26]
B
Now I'm thriving. I'm in a bigger pot and my leaves are green and huge and big. And I'm just a happy plant.
- [24:34]
A
Just a happy plant. What kind of plant would you consider yourself to be?
- [24:38]
B
What do you. What is this thing? Is a check in round? Is a mid episode check in round?
- [24:41]
A
Yeah, man. Do you know any kinds of plants? Just out of curiosity, I was gonna.
- [24:48]
B
Have to try to just describe it. Probably, let's say a fern.
- [24:54]
A
Okay. I could see you as a fern.
- [24:56]
B
Are ferns resilient? Yeah, no, I'm kind of spiky. I'm a bit.
- [25:00]
A
You're not a cactus. I don't think you're a cactus. I could see you as a fern. Ferns don't like sun, they like shade.
- [25:08]
B
I kind of like the sun, though.
- [25:09]
A
Oh, I thought you didn't like the sun. I guess because you tell me about, like, staying inside on vacation.
- [25:14]
B
I just didn't like the sun sometimes being inside.
- [25:17]
A
But I don't.
- [25:18]
B
I don't know. We'll have to. We'll have to circle back around. I'm a mighty oak tree.
- [25:23]
A
Okay. That's not a plant.
- [25:26]
B
Well, it absolutely is a plant.
- [25:29]
A
I guess trees. Trees count. I just didn't think in terms of like pots. Like, I don't put a lot of oak trees in pots anyway.
- [25:36]
B
That's a good point.
- [25:37]
A
This is. This has gotten wild.
- [25:39]
B
What's your theme?
- [25:40]
A
I mean, what I wrote in the sticky was like the theme of 2024 is it was roller coaster. This year was like dog years. I feel like I have lived a decade this year, just like it is a year. And I kind of feel like I say this every year, so, like, you know, God help me. But this year, I think at work, we really invented and clarified our identity and a slightly different future for ourselves. And a lot of that work, like a lot of the work that we're. That you're gonna Hear about on this podcast at the beginning of next year. A lot of the work around the future of hr, a lot of the changes that we've made internally, like very much felt wind in the sails, you know, and just felt like, okay, this is a hard business. It is hard to do disruption and resistance work professionally. But like, we are now like tacking towards something that really feels right for us. And the feeling of doing that in a boat that was still a little bit leaky with like a little bit of an anchor on it, which was like core businesses that need to probably be wound down, old ways of working. Lots and lots of things in ROS that needed shedding or reinvention in order to really let us sail. It's just like my brain has been in the tension of looking back and looking forward constantly, non stop for a year. So like, on the one hand, I wouldn't have it any other way because it's really exciting and I think we're in the best spot that we've ever been in. And on the other hand, like, I don't know if I can actually take another year like this. Like, I'm. I might just not make it so like that. On the work front and then on the personal front, I have really reengaged in things outside of work that are very meaningful to me. So, like, I am playing a lot of music. I am studying again with a teacher. I did prioritize, like going, you know, for a week just to play. I'm really engaged in swimming and actually like, like making improvements that like, there's a bunch of things outside of work that I think probably because of the intellectual and emotional challenge of work this year I've been like, I can't just sprint and recover. I have to have other things that I care about and I'm invested in if I'm going to work like this. And a lot of those things are like, really exciting. I'm playing in bands, I'm writing a book. Like, there's just a lot of cool stuff happening. I always like, Sam, you've heard me talk about this. I talk about it at the ready all the time. There's a book from a while back that actually a client pointed me to years and years ago called Dual Transformation. There was an article about it, I think it was a book. There's an article about it in hbr, this great podcast. Anyway, I feel like we are squarely in the middle of dual transformation. And if you read any of that content, you will understand why dual transformations are necessary for any Business, full stop. And also really fucking hard.
- [29:04]
B
Yeah. Cool.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah.
- [29:07]
B
Well, here's to next year not having to be quite as intense. But, you know, you said you feel like you've said this before, so.
- [29:14]
A
I do.
- [29:14]
B
Fingers crossed. I don't know.
- [29:15]
A
Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.
- [29:18]
B
All right.
- [29:19]
A
Okay, so I'm gonna ask you final question. What is your hope for the show in 2025?
- [29:31]
B
So two hopes. One, that we just get a shit ton more listeners. I think this is a good podcast and more people should listen to it, so I hope that happens. And then the other thing, the thing that I wrote down here and back to my point about my hope for this podcast more generally is about the very specific episode topic. So I hope we get so weirdly specific with our episodes that it feels like we've been reading your journal. So I hope everybody who's listening to this podcast right now has one episode from us in the next year where they're like, what the fuck? Like, how did they know? Are they in my house that I was working on? And maybe like, the rest of the episodes, like, yeah, like, that's interesting. I can see where they're coming from, but I want one to be like, what is going on? And that I will consider that a successful.
- [30:17]
A
Oh, my gosh, I love that. That is so creepily exciting.
- [30:23]
B
It's creepily wholesome.
- [30:24]
A
We're in your office. We're in your office posing as janitorial workers.
- [30:33]
B
Exactly.
- [30:35]
A
I don't know. I'm like, I'm really happy with the show. Jack told me that we're almost at a million downloads, which is just, like, wild. So I want to appreciate that and, like, be in gratitude for that, because I am, and I don't want to let that keep us from trying shit. So the depth finding series, you know, we're gonna start recording that in, like, a couple of weeks. We've been talking about it for ages. There are a bunch of reasons that we waited, but I'm super excited about it. And it's like, I hope it fucking slaps. I hope you guys love it, and if not, we're gonna do another thing. Like, we're gonna things. And I'm excited about that, and I would, like, just love to be in more contact with our listeners. Like, you know, we get an email here and there. It's really nice. You're better at responding to them than I am. But, like, could we do a live event where we actually get to meet a bunch of you guys? Like, could we have a community where we, like, Hang out and chat once a month. I don't know, 200 episodes of speaking into this microphone at one other person and knowing that there are thousands of you out there is like, I do sometime want to meet you. So, yeah, hopefully someday.
- [31:53]
B
Yeah, that someday in 2025.
- [31:57]
A
Yeah.
- [31:58]
B
All right.
- [31:59]
A
All right. Sam, do you want to finish the retro? I think we.
- [32:04]
B
We are going to continue the podcast, right? We're continuing. You didn't. You were dropped the bomb. This is when you drop the bomb.
- [32:11]
A
Hit stop record.
- [32:12]
B
Okay, bye, everyone. It was good knowing you. Okay, cool. We're good. Let's wrap this. Let's wrap this up. You know, we're always looking for new topics for the show. So if you have a pattern that you're having trouble changing, especially if it's hyper specific, shoot us a note@podcasttheready.com One other quick thing to know here is that we are doing a listener survey right now and it is at the URL thereaddy.com forward/podcast and there's a button at the top. And it's really important for us to get as many folks as possible to fill out that survey. And if you are all the way at the end of this episode and hearing me say this right now, you are precisely the type of listener we would love to have fill out the survey. So please do that for us. It'll be live through January 12th.
- [33:02]
A
This show, like the last 200 shows, has been engineered by Taylor. Marvin Taylor. Thank you for hanging with us all of this time. Maybe you are also one of the people that I'll get to meet in 2025. We really appreciate all of your behind the scenes work. Same goes for Jack Van Amber. Sam and I could not make this show without our producer. He is the loveliest, kindest, most hardworking and conscientious human being I know. OrkwithReady is created by the ready where we help organizations around the world change the way that they work. Thank you guys for listening. Have a very happy meeting here.