At Work with The Ready, Episode 34: Even More Bad Bosses and How to Defeat Them, Part 2

Hosts: Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin
Release Date: October 6, 2025

Episode Overview

In this follow-up to their popular "Bad Bosses" episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin dig deeper into workplace dysfunction by exploring two additional toxic boss archetypes: "the Ghost" and "the Self-Promoter." They discuss behaviors, motivations, and the organizational systems that allow such bosses to thrive. Most importantly, they provide concrete, actionable advice for listeners who find themselves working with (or as) these boss types, always bringing empathy and humor to the complexities of leadership. The episode closes with reflections on self-preservation, the limits of employee power, and why sometimes walking away is the best option.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Quick Recap and the Big Pattern (04:00–04:44)

• Main Insight: All bad bosses are "perfectly adapted to the system that put them in power."
  Quote (Rodney, 00:57): "Every bad boss is adapted to the system that put them in power. That's why they're everywhere, because bad systems are everywhere."
• The hosts review the archetypes from Part 1: the Micromanager, the Rager, and the Martyr.

2. The Ghost Boss (04:44–10:36)

Who Are They?

• The Ghost is always hard to find, slow to respond, vague in guidance, and refuses to make decisions—but insists they're "empowering" you.
• Their absence leaves team members unsupported and uncertain.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sam (05:01): "The ghost, they're hard to find when you need them. They give really kind of vague guidance. They're slow to respond. Do not ask them to make a decision; they are not going to make it."
• Rodney (05:38): "They're the artful Dodgers of the company... They protect their reputation in the organization by being invisible."

Underlying Patterns

• Ghosts often avoid conflict and accountability, preferring to be uncriticizable by simply not being present.
• Sometimes, their behavior stems from a misunderstanding of what "empowerment" means.

How to Deal with the Ghost

• Make their absence visible by involving them in decisions and asking for input publicly (emails, shared docs, Slack).
• Force them to “show up” by engineering situations where their input is overtly required (09:51).
• If all else fails and you feel empowered, just start making bold decisions yourself and see if that draws them out (10:11–10:24).

3. The Self-Promoter Boss (10:36–20:24)

Who Are They?

• The Self-Promoter takes credit for others' ideas and work, often at the expense of their staff's morale and professional growth.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Rodney (11:05): "The self promoter is... the credit stealer. The person that, like, steals the glory... for outcomes that they were not part of, for people's ideas and work that they did not generate."
• Sam (13:16): "If you shine, I fade... very competitive and I don't think it's particularly strategic honestly."
• Rodney (16:05): "The great thing about working for a credit stealer is if you don't give them shit to steal, they are in big trouble."

Underlying Patterns

• Motivated by insecurity, fear, and zero-sum thinking; they see others’ success as a threat.
• Sometimes they rationalize their behavior with stories about "collaboration" or by claiming "endorsement" equates to authorship (12:44).

How To Deal with the Self-Promoter

• Make your contributions and your team’s work visible by “working in public”: share drafts, use collaborative tools where others can see the progression of ideas (17:01).
• Have 1:1 conversations to clarify contributions and ask for recognition if needed. Most people, once confronted, are embarrassed and will change.
• Leaders should model proper attribution and team-based recognition, steering away from excessive individual awards (18:06–19:35).

4. Organizational Causes and Considerations (20:24–25:51)

What These Bad Bosses Have In Common

• Most don't intend to be bad bosses, but are playing out learned behaviors that were once rewarded.
• Sam (21:46): "Everybody is the hero of their own story. Most people do not set out to be like, I'm going to be a bad boss today."
• Rodney (22:20): "Each of these five archetypes is just trying to protect themselves in some way, and they're overusing some strategy that has been previously rewarded by their current or past organization."

5. Final Reflections: Self-Preservation and When to Leave (23:26–25:51)

• The oft-repeated "people don't leave jobs, they leave managers" is true for a reason.
• Trying to fundamentally change a bad boss is likely to fail; focus on self-preservation.
  • Sam (23:53): "You can't change people. I cannot change my boss. Don't even try."
  • Rodney (24:30): "Self preservation in the context might be the only lever you have... And I also don't think enough people think critically about whether it really is the only lever."
• When possible, leaving a bad boss (not just adapting to them) is a valid and sometimes necessary strategy.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Rodney, 00:57: "Every bad boss is adapted to the system that put them in power. That's why they're everywhere, because bad systems are everywhere."
• Sam, 05:01: "The ghost... They give really kind of vague guidance. They're slow to respond. Do not ask them to make a decision; they are not going to make it."
• Rodney, 05:38: "They're the artful Dodgers of the company... They protect their reputation in the organization by being invisible."
• Rodney, 11:05: "The self promoter is... the credit stealer. The person that takes the glory... for outcomes that they were not part of."
• Sam, 13:16: "If you shine, I fade... There's only a big enough spotlight for one of us and it's gonna be me."
• Rodney, 16:05: "The great thing about working for a credit stealer is if you don't give them shit to steal, they are in big trouble."
• Sam, 21:46: "Everybody is the hero of their own story. Most people do not set out to be like, I'm going to be a bad boss today."
• Rodney, 22:20: "Each of these five archetypes is just trying to protect themselves in some way..."
• Rodney, 24:30: "Self preservation in the context might be the only lever you have..."

Takeaways for Listeners

• Recognize Boss Patterns: Identify if you’re working for a Ghost or Self-Promoter, and remember these patterns result from organizational systems, not individual malice alone.
• Tactics for Survival: Make your boss's absence visible, keep public records of collaborative work, and never hesitate to respectfully claim the credit you deserve.
• You’re Not Alone: These boss types are common. Many have suffered—and survived.
• Self-Preservation is Key: Your power to change your boss is limited; put your own well-being first, and know when to walk away.

Useful Timestamps

• 00:41 – Episode purpose and recap
• 04:44 – Introduction to the “Ghost” boss
• 09:51 – Tactics for dealing with a Ghost boss
• 10:36 – Introduction to the “Self-Promoter” boss
• 17:01 – "Working in public" as a defense against credit-stealing
• 20:24 – Organizational causes and what these archetypes share
• 23:26 – Self-preservation advice and when to leave a bad boss

For feedback or your own stories of bad bosses, reach out to the hosts at podcast@theready.com.