At Work with The Ready

Episode 35: Fighting Burnout At Work

Hosts: Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin
Release date: October 20, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin dive deep into the current epidemic of burnout in the workplace. Drawing on their extensive experience helping organizations adopt modern work practices, they challenge the dominant narrative that positions burnout as an individual failure—and instead frame it as a systemic organizational issue. The discussion explores how burnout actually manifests in teams (not just individuals), why today’s organizations seem "perfectly designed" to burn people out, and practical, evidence-based ways teams can address burnout at the source.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Systemic Roots of Burnout

• Burnout is largely a product of organizational systems, not individual weakness.

  • Many companies operate in ways that systematically induce overwhelm, a lack of control, and continuous overwork. ([04:59])
  • Attempts to "solve" burnout usually target the individual (e.g., setting boundaries, personal wellness) and ignore the bigger picture.
  • Quote:
    • “You're telling individual people basically that it is their fault that they're burnt out…when actually they're acting perfectly rationally for the environment that they're in.” — Rodney ([05:16])

• Capitalist Incentives & The Prisoner's Dilemma of Overwork

  • Organizations reward those visibly grinding the hardest, pushing everyone into unhealthy work patterns. ([06:34]-[07:29])
  • Burnout “spreads like a virus” in cultures that valorize busyness and productivity at any cost.

2. How Burnout Shows Up in Teams

• Burnout isn’t always obvious at the team level—sometimes the symptoms in group behavior are misinterpreted, ignored, or even rewarded. ([08:21]-[09:56])
• Less Obvious Symptoms Include:
  • Over-helpfulness: Team members become everywhere-at-once “heroes,” losing focus and agency.
    • Quote: "They're just the people who are, like, in everybody's DMs…doing weird hero behaviors and they're not saying no to anything." — Rodney ([09:21])
  • Defeatism & Cynicism: Cynics may actually be exhausted, not merely negative.
    • Quote: "I often find the people who show up as cynics...are actually just really tired and they're imagining trying to take the hill and not wanting to." — Rodney ([12:22])
  • Procrastination: Repeated inability to ship work, misunderstood as laziness; often, it's simply cognitive overload.
    • Quote: “When you're super burnt out…it just feels sort of like being in a fog. Your memory is impacted, your cognition is impacted, your ability to focus…It’s like having a real cognitive impairment.” — Rodney ([15:18])
  • Busyness for its Own Sake: Filling calendars with low-value work to mask a lack of focus, validated by workplace norms.
    • “Organizations really hold up fullness and busyness and like a double-booked calendar as being signals that you're important…” — Rodney ([17:16])
  • Impatience and Hurry: Team members push to "just make a decision" and avoid process, not because it’s best, but because they can’t mentally handle work ambiguity. ([21:02])

3. Why Burnout Persists: Fear, Bureaucracy, and Broken Social Contracts

• Widespread existential fear: Economic uncertainty, job market pressures, AI disruption, and lack of a social safety net escalate stress. ([25:09]-[25:52])
  • “Most organizations are built on a level of fear. And especially right now…there is still this existential fear at work.” — Rodney ([25:52])
• Bureaucracy multiplies futility: Organizations squeeze every drop of energy from employees, but much of it is wasted on bureaucracy and senseless process.
  • “You're getting everything wrung out of you to go fill out the same form 10 different times…There’s this deep futility…” — Sam ([27:27])
• Cognitive dissonance and gaslighting: Companies preach "we're a family" while burning people out.
  • “The working world writ large is just gaslighting most of its workers all the time.” — Rodney ([28:11])

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the myth of individual blame:

  • “Bro, shut the fuck up. Like, you're telling individual people basically that it is their fault that they're burnt out because they don't have control over their behavior…when actually they're acting perfectly rationally for the environment that they're in.” — Rodney ([05:16])

• On busyness as a coping mechanism:

  • “All of the projects that come to mind to me are little micro reorganizing projects…I do them for the dopamine hit that I am missing in my day job.” — Sam ([02:28])
  • “The pencil arranging can keep the demon dogs at bay…it can keep things quieter in your brain, even if you quote, unquote, hate it.” — Sam ([18:07])

• On culture as a driver of burnout:

  • “Are any companies making whatever they sell as efficiently and productively as they are making burnt out employees?” — Rodney ([24:30])

• On physical symptoms signaling burnout:

  • “Now I often consider first, like, what is actually going on with me emotionally. When was the last time I had a break from work? How much am I thinking about work when I’m not there?” — Rodney ([41:19])

Solutions: What Can We Do About Burnout?

(Segment begins ~[29:36])

1. Audit Workloads and Lower the Bar for Effort

• Review “Sunshine Zone” work: Ruthlessly audit what work actually needs to be done, and design for outcomes that require less effort, not more. ([31:48])
  • Even at smaller team levels, ask “What can we stop doing?”
  • Tip: Fully step back from tasks when delegating—don’t linger in channels or keep passive tabs.

2. Increase Structure and Clarify Rules

• Ask for clear guardrails:
  • Who has the final say?
  • What is the real deadline & budget?
  • Why is this work being done?
  • Clarity reduces the fatigue of "fog of war." ([32:47])
• Model strict but supportive policies: (For leaders)
  • Minimum vacation requirements
  • Enforced quiet hours and meeting-free periods
  • Post-launch recovery buffers
  • "Walk the talk": Leaders must model these behaviors for them to stick.

3. Recognize & Catch Burnout Early

• Know the stages: Reference Herbert Freudenberger’s “12 Stages of Burnout” ([36:20])
  • Notice telltale habits: excessive phone scrolling, sleeping too much, withdrawing, losing sense of humor, physical symptoms
  • Create recurring reminders to check in with yourself

4. Limit Work in Progress (WIP)

• Use Kanban boards or simple lists to cap the number of projects or tasks in flight
• Limiting WIP calms the psychological experience of work: “This is the work in progress and here’s all the stuff we’re not doing right now, and that is okay.” — Sam ([42:38])
• Four-day workweek experiments show that less "bullshit work" leads to less burnout

5. Run Low-Risk Experiments to Set Boundaries

• Try simple, non-permission experiments: e.g., not responding to early-morning emails for a week and monitor outcomes ([44:05])
  • “The experiment was: I’m just going to do it and see how it goes.” — Sam ([45:39])
• Focus less on policy, more on creating functional, adaptive personal boundaries

6. Culture Change Starts with Small Wins

• Change what you can, even if you’re not in charge
• Every team has control over at least some portion of its “sunshine zone” and norms

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to the topic & the individual vs. systemic causes of burnout: [04:33] - [06:22]
• Symptoms of burnout in team behaviors: [08:21] - [22:09]
• Why burnout is so prevalent (systemic drivers): [23:22] - [29:00]
• Practical solutions and experiments to fight burnout: [29:36] - [45:47]

Tone & Language

Rodney and Sam maintain a conversational, frank, and sometimes irreverent tone. Their discussion is peppered with humor (“All right, y’all. Today…it's burnout. Did I forget to talk about the topic before? Doesn't matter. It’s burnout.” — Rodney, [03:13]), candor, and personal anecdotes, which make the advice feel grounded and actionable.

For Listeners: Concrete Takeaways

• Recognize organizational burnout as a system problem, not a personal failing.
• Become aware of subtle burnout symptoms in teams—don’t mistake cynicism, over-helpfulness, or impatience for “bad attitude” or “leadership.”
• Experiment bravely with boundaries, workload audits, and work-in-progress limits.
• Leaders: Your behavior sets the bar. Model what you want to see.
• Remember: The problem isn’t usually working hard. It’s working hard on bullshit.

[End of summary]