Podcast Summary: At Work with The Ready

Episode 43: "Dual Transformation Is The Future...And Nobody's Prepared"
Hosts: Rodney Evans & Sam Spurlin
Date: February 9, 2026

Episode Overview

Theme:
This episode centers on the concept of "dual transformation"—the challenge and necessity for organizations to simultaneously reinvent their core business (Transformation A) while also incubating new growth engines (Transformation B). Drawing from the seminal book Dual Transformation, Rodney and Sam explore why this is so difficult, how most organizations are unprepared, and what practical steps teams and leaders can take to navigate this complex terrain. With witty banter and expert insight, they unpack why most companies struggle with transformative change and what it actually takes at every level (from individual contributor to CEO) to embrace the inevitable cycles of growth, decline, and reinvention in today’s rapidly-shifting world of work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Dual Transformation Framework (04:26–10:02)

• Definition:
  • Transformation A: Repositioning today’s business to maximize its resilience.
  • Transformation B: Creating a new, separate growth engine.
  • Capabilities Link: Leveraging hard-to-replicate assets without letting the old business "suck in" the new.
• Challenge:
  Most organizations are "perfectly designed to get the results that they do," making it extremely hard to innovate while still operating the legacy business.
• Why now?
  Accelerating disruption—especially due to AI—demands this dual focus more than ever.
• Notable Quote:

  "Trying to do two transformations at once is one to two more transformations than most CEOs can lead at one time." —Rodney (09:38)

Disruption & The Innovator's Dilemma (10:02–12:06)

• Clayton Christensen’s Theory:
  Disruption comes from cheaper, simpler products that appeal to non-core customers and slowly overtake incumbents.
• Business Myopia:
  Companies make all the ‘right’ decisions for short-term success, but miss the long-term threat.
• Notable Quote:

  "The thing that makes a company really good at what it is currently doing makes it susceptible to disruption." —Sam (11:15)

Why Dual Transformation Is So Hard (13:25–18:37)

• Lack of Clear Vision:
  Few leaders really know what the next growth engine is; most are preoccupied with operational chaos.
  • "Most leadership teams are so consumed with the chaos of their own organization that they are just not doing that work." —Rodney (15:33)
• Budget & Resource Constraints:
  Budgets are structured for the core business, rarely for true incubation.
  • "Budgets are mostly not built for incubating a separate new business." —Rodney (15:59)
• Board Pressures:
  Boards tend to hire CEOs skilled at running the existing business, not at birthing the new one. M&A is often used as a shortcut—usually unsuccessfully (18:37).

The Messy Middle & Overlap (19:15–24:44)

• Short-termism:
  “Urgent and important” issues of the core business crowd out investment in longer-term bets.
• Crises in Dual Transformation
  • Crisis of Commitment: People don’t want to be left on the “sinking ship”—Transformation A lacks inspiration.
  • Crisis of Conflict: The tension between defending the core and nurturing the new causes organizational friction.
• Notable Quote:

  "The messiness of this is inevitable, which is probably why this book wasn’t more popular... it’s really fucking hard." —Rodney (24:02)

Emotional Side & Leadership Reality (25:44–29:33)

• Polarity Thinking:
  Leaders and teams must hold two competing truths—that both the legacy and the new are vital, even if the old is fading.
• Nothing lasts forever:
  Success in the old business is not failure, decline is inevitable—and emotionally difficult for founders and leaders.
  • "You didn’t fuck this up... it’s just now you’re confronted with the inevitability of death." —Rodney (26:07)
• Employee Perspective:
  Many employees are more focused on their own jobs than overall strategy, and may be insulated from the big picture.

Internal Transparency & Organizational Health (29:33–32:09)

• Communication:
  Open conversation about what's happening—and why—helps avoid surprises and deepens buy-in, even among those not at the top.
• Culture:
  Each "business" (old and new) may require a distinct operating system; fairness here doesn’t mean “same for everyone.”

Concrete Practices for Change (39:27–47:24)

Rodney’s Tips:

• Customer Discovery (39:27–42:50):
  Build discipline around both incremental improvement (core) and exploratory discovery (new).
  • Don’t just ask “Did you like what we did?” Seek deeper understanding and signals for potential avenues.
• Written Narratives (45:57–47:24):
  Document what the current business is and what the future business could be—clarity enables action.

Sam’s Tips:

• Tailored Operating System (OS) (32:09–34:24):
  Define, and explicitly differentiate, the processes for core and new businesses. Fairness means appropriateness for stage and purpose.
• Protect the New from the Old (43:01–44:16):
  Shield the new business from being smothered by the bureaucracy and process of the old—strip away what doesn’t fit.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "All companies are built to do what they do. The really uncomfortable truth of complex systems is that they die and from within them you have to build the new thing or go down with the ship." —Rodney (05:37)
• "Disruption and the dying off of anything does feel so inevitable." —Rodney (12:06)
• "The crisis of commitment...nobody likes being in the business that's the sinking ship...it's a hard place to ask people to stay." —Rodney (22:44)
• "There is no path forward where everybody is stoked...it’s actually speaking to something true in the complexity of how this shit actually works." —Sam (24:44)
• "You didn't fuck this up. It's just that now you're confronted with the inevitability of death." —Rodney (26:07)
• "Our ability to hold two truths at the same time is very difficult and dual transformation requires that on every level." —Rodney (25:01)
• "Care can look like a lot of different ways of doing new shit that people really underestimate." —Sam (38:28)

Practical Takeaways & Advice

For Leaders & Change Agents:

• Allocate dedicated time for customer discovery—both to refine the core and imagine the new.
• Make clear distinctions: Write out and discuss what’s core, what’s emerging. Don’t rely on ambiguity.
• Prevent the accidental import of legacy bureaucracy into the new venture—build for the needs of each stage.
• Instill expectations of transparency: share the state of both the core and new business with all, not just the C-suite.
• Don’t expect dual transformation to be popular or easy; it will mean managing real conflict and discomfort.

For Individual Contributors:

• Stay aware of broader organizational trends—don’t be blindsided if you’re in a "Business A" that’s fading.
• Ask for, and expect, transparency from leaders.
• Recognize that both maintaining the core and experimenting in the new are “care”—if you’re on one side, neither is “better.”

Suggested Resources

• Main Text:
  Dual Transformation (2017) — Highly recommended by Rodney; includes a practical workbook worth completing (47:27).
• Related Theory:
  Clayton Christensen's The Innovator's Dilemma

Final Word

Embracing dual transformation means acknowledging the inevitable decline of all systems—and humbly, courageously investing simultaneously in both the legacy and the future. Success is not about avoidance of messiness, but about navigating it intentionally and transparently.

If you’re grappling with dual transformation in your team, Rodney and Sam recommend starting with honest conversation, clear differentiation of priorities, and relentless customer insight—then picking up the book for a deeper dive into tools and mindsets that actually work.