Episode Summary: "AUA: How Do You Measure the ROI of Org Design?"

Podcast: At Work with The Ready
Hosts: Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin
Date: January 5, 2026

Episode Overview

In this Ask Us Anything (AUA) mini-episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin tackle a listener's complex question: How do you measure the return on investment (ROI) of organization (org) design with a client? The pair dig into why the ROI discussion is often fraught, how The Ready approaches value measurement, and offer practical ways to align org design work with what truly matters to clients. The conversation is candid, revealing, and provides insight into both the challenges and opportunities leaders face when seeking to quantify change initiatives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Awkwardness and Complexity of ROI in Org Design [00:19–01:34]

• Rodney jokes about the impossibility of the question, highlighting how fraught ROI conversations can be.
• They note that ROI discussions can range from energizing explorations of value to "demoralizing" debates about quarterly cost savings.
  • Quote:
    • Sam (00:36): "If the latter is the framing on an ROI conversation around org design, you're just going to have a bad time."
• The duo flags that starting a partnership with ROI as the first and central question can be a red flag, if not necessarily a deal breaker.
  • Quote:
    • Sam (01:26): "It’s not a deal breaker, but it is a bit of a red flag."

2. Aligning with What Matters to the Client [01:35–04:42]

• Sam and Rodney stress that org design ROI should link directly to organizational goals, not treat transformation as a side project.
• Org design’s results should be measured against the very metrics the organization already values—not side metrics or generic engagement scores.
  • Quote:
    • Sam (01:57): "It’s to do the things that you already care about better."
• Rodney describes her user-led approach: let the client establish goals and then use org design so they can better achieve them—even if the consultant wouldn’t choose those priorities.
  • Quote:
    • Rodney (02:22): "You tell me what you’re trying to do and I’ll do the work on the organization so you can do it."
• The ROI of their work is seen in practical improvements: reduced cycle times (e.g., faster menu production, quicker factory output, software release speeds), error reduction, etc.
• Rodney pushes back on measuring org design effectiveness via separate, culture-only metrics (“I’m not doing trust for trust’s sake”), emphasizing shared accountability for what matters to the client.
  • Quote:
    • Rodney (03:57): "I'm not doing trust for trust's sake. We're fixing the org so that it does what you want it to do."

3. Tracking Leading Indicators and Making Value Visible [04:43–06:21]

• Sam suggests org designers can bring creative thinking to ROI by identifying leading indicators (e.g., better meetings, faster decisions) that drive lagging business results.
  • Quote:
    • Sam (05:10): "...having more effective meetings... those are leading indicators that lead to the things that you care about."
• Rodney describes building dashboards that track both org design practices and outcomes. While correlation may not be perfect, teams most engaged in new practices often advance more toward their own metrics.
  • Quote:
    • Rodney (05:50): "...the teams that were furthest along in the moves were seeing more progress against their stated aims. And that, I think that is powerful to a leader because they want impact for their money."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sam (00:36): "If the latter is the framing on an ROI conversation around org design, you're just going to have a bad time."
• Sam (01:26): "It’s not a deal breaker, but it is a bit of a red flag."
• Sam (01:57): "It’s to do the things that you already care about better."
• Rodney (02:22): "You tell me what you’re trying to do and I’ll do the work on the organization so you can do it."
• Rodney (03:57): "I'm not doing trust for trust's sake. We're fixing the org so that it does what you want it to do."
• Sam (05:10): "...having more effective meetings... those are leading indicators that lead to the things that you care about."
• Rodney (05:50): "...the teams that were furthest along in the moves were seeing more progress against their stated aims. And that, I think that is powerful to a leader because they want impact for their money."

Important Timestamps

• 00:19 — Listener question: "How do you talk about ROI of org design?" The challenge of the topic.
• 01:34 — The risk of ROI-first clients and why this can be a warning sign.
• 02:20 — The Ready’s philosophy: tie org design to what the client values and needs.
• 03:57 — Pushback on using generic engagement metrics; re-centering accountability.
• 04:42 — Using leading indicators to support the value case for org design.
• 05:50 — Dashboarding org design practices and their correlation to progress.

Overall Tone and Takeaways

Rodney and Sam keep the tone practical, candid, and a bit irreverent, poking fun at consulting cliches but staying earnest about their impact. Their message is clear: ROI in org design is real and compelling if you look for it over longer time horizons and connect it directly to business metrics that matter—not through contrived or abstract measures. Through this lens, org design isn’t a “soft” investment—it’s the lever for business performance, as long as outcomes are what drive the measurement.