Podcast
Azeem Azhar's Exponential View
Hosted by Azeem Azhar · EN
How will the future unfold? What is the impact of AI and other exponential technologies on business & society? Join Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, on his quest to demistify the era of exponential change.
39episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Where did all the entry-level jobs go? (With Revelio CEO Ben Zweig)
Nov 1400:47:58Summary readyJunior roles in AI-exposed fields are disappearing fast. The obvious culprit is AI rapidly automating entry-level jobs. And yet, this isn't quite right. What is driving the drop is managers’ expectations about what AI will do, not the work that it's already replacing. I discussed this with Ben Zweig of Revelio Labs, which builds global workforce data from millions of individual profiles to track hiring, separations and job flows. Their data shows how expectation and uncertainty are reshaping the market.Together, we explored the future of work and shared practical advice for new grads. We covered: (01:15) What's happening in the labor market? (05:27) The inherent complexity of the labor market (06:24) How Revelio Labs captures labor market data (08:39) "The Canary in the Coal Mine" (11:52) Who does AI exposure harm the most? (13:01) How AI anticipation is harming the job market (15:15) Testing the expectation mismatch hypothesis (17:30) Could AI be creating more jobs? (20:44) Breaking down jobs into smaller tasks (27:33) Why large companies struggle to reorganize (30:35) Focus on creating adaptive, flexible roles (36:03) Managing AI's increasing capability (39:11) What entry-level workers need to do Where to find me: - Exponential View newsletter: https://www.exponentialview.co/ - Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/ - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar - Twitter/X: https://x.com/azeem Where to find Ben: - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-zweig/ - Twitter/X: https://x.com/BJZweig - Revelio Labs: https://www.reveliolabs.com/ Production by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1 Production and research: Chantal Smith, Hannah Petrovic and Marija Gavrilov. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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The demand for infinite compute
Nov 700:16:52Summary readyThe AI boom isn’t just about chatbots.In this video, I explain why cloud companies and chipmakers are exploding in value: we’re moving into an economy where computation becomes a fundamental input – like steel, electricity or oil.If that’s true, our demand for compute could approach infinity.I also break down new data from Wharton’s 2025 AI Adoption Report, which shows how AI agents and automated workflows are already spreading through major U.S. companies: https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/special-report/2025-ai-adoption-report/Timestamps:(00:00) The economic shift to computation (00:40) The surprising Cloud business boom (02:52) Is the hardware industry growth a bubble? (03:18) What is computing, really? (04:31) Our insatiable appetite for computing (09:15) Our economic dependence on computation (10:54) The rise of agentic workforces (13:05) What does infinite demand actually mean? (15:23) The future of compute demandWhere to find me:Exponential View newsletter: https://www.exponentialview.co/Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azharTwitter/X: https://x.com/azeemProduction by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1Production and research: Chantal Smith, Hannah Petrovic and Marija Gavrilov. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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Inside the US–China decoupling: What’s really at stake (AI, rare earths, Taiwan, trade)
Oct 2300:45:19Summary readyIn this episode, I speak with Jordan Schneider, creator of Chinatalk, to explore the new phase of US–China competition. Both countries are using trade policy, export controls and industrial strategy to shift the balance of global power. Yet, their economies remain tightly bound. We cover: (01:34) The US and China’s decoupling (07:28) Why attempts to control China backfired (08:51) Understanding the Oct. 9th rare Earth rules (11:27) The modern iteration of Chinese communism (14:23) Is decoupling a strategy to avoid weaponization? (16:12) US leadership might be shooting from the hip (19:22) Are system changes inherently messy? (21:27) “Vibe-based” sovereignty (26:03) AI incumbents aren’t entrenched—yet (29:07) Why China remains focused on AI deployment (32:45) The different versions of tech-accelerationism (33:37) How will societies withstand rapid change? (36:54) What the West can learn from China (40:10) Where China is most misunderstood (43:14) Imagining an improved US-China relationship Produced by EPIIPLUS1 Ltd and supermix.io Production and research: Chantal Smith, Hannah Petrovic and Marija Gavrilov. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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Why China builds while America debates, with Dan Wang
Oct 1Tap to summarizeIn this episode, I spoke with Dan Wang, author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future”, shortlisted for the FT & Schroders Business Book of the Year.Dan is one of the most astute observers of China’s technological and industrial development, and his annual letters from Beijing have long been required reading for those seeking to understand the country’s evolving role in the world.We unpacked a bold thesis: China is not merely a competitor in AI and tech, but is re-imagining its entire state apparatus as an engineering state - in contrast to the more “lawyerly” institutions of the US and UK.If you’re interested in AI, energy or geopolitics, this conversation is for you.We covered: (00:47) Why China is an engineering state(03:40) China’s pro-engineering disposition(06:08) The role of market competition in China(08:07) Living through Zero COVID(11:35) What political science terms get wrong(12:58) Characteristics of a lawyerly society(15:23) What Americans misunderstand about China(21:54) Has China produced essential tech?(23:50) The AI divide: China vs. US(27:45) Differences in energy production(32:07) The inherent value of process knowledge(38:34) Is the US developing pro-engineering policies?(44:23) What does it take for countries to compete?Where to find me:Substack: https://www.exponentialview.co/Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azharTwitter/X: https://x.com/azeemWhere to find Dan:Website: https://danwang.co/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danwang15/Twitter/X: https://x.com/danwwangProduction by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1 Ltd, including Chantal Smith, Marija Gavrilov, Nathan Warren and Hannah Petrovic. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Transcribe →What it’s like on the frontlines of Trump’s tariff’s war
Apr 16, 202500:43:19Summary readyIn this episode, Azeem Azhar speaks with Ryan Petersen, CEO and founder of logistics platform Flexport, about the current state of global trade amidst escalating tariffs, geopolitical tensions, and technological disruption. Ryan offers unique insights from the frontlines of the US-China trade war and explores how businesses are adapting to a rapidly changing landscape. (00:00) Episode trailer (01:12) Ryan's overall thoughts and predictions (03:40) Why shipping is crucial to your everyday life (08:07) Why tariffs may actually increase global shipping (11:34) Who’s pausing their China shipments? (14:29) The mindset of Flexport customers right now (16:02) Is this the end of globalization? (21:48) The fragility and resiliency of global trade (25:27) The most underrated story in the world (30:25) How tech has changed global trade (36:31) Who will win in the new trade settings? (41:20) What could a U.S-China trade deal look like? Ryan's links:Flexport https://www.flexport.com/ Twitter/X https://x.com/typesfast LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/rpetersen/Azeem's links: Substack: https://www.exponentialview.co/ Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar Twitter/X: https://x.com/azeem Our new showThis was originally recorded for "Friday with Azeem Azhar", a new show that takes place every Friday at 9am PT and 12pm ET. You can tune in through my Substack linked below. The format is experimental and we'd love your feedback, so feel free to comment or email your thoughts to our team at live@exponentialview.co.Produced by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1 Ltd
SummaryA tour of the tech boom — 5 waves you need to understand
Apr 10, 202500:42:28Summary readyAzeem Azhar welcomes Packy McCormick, founder and investor at Not Boring, to discuss the current tech landscape. In this episode you'll hear: (01:50) What Packy got wrong (and right) about Web3 (10:17) The shift to "know thyself and know thyself-nots" (14:28) Europe just woke up (18:46) Bits and atoms are cool again (21:10) London airport shutdown reveals a deeper challenge (23:32) A new kind of home energy infrastructure (29:28) A theory on Eric Schmidt's new CEO role (34:08) What's the role of nuclear in a solar + battery world? (40:33) The coming tech boom Our new show This was originally recorded for "Friday with Azeem Azhar", a new show that takes place every Friday at 9am PT and 12pm ET. You can tune in through my Substack linked below. The format is experimental and we'd love your feedback, so feel free to comment or email your thoughts to our team at live@exponentialview.co. Packy's links: Substack: https://www.notboring.co/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/packyM Azeem's links: Substack: https://www.exponentialview.co/ Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar Twitter/X: https://x.com/azeem Produced by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1 Ltd
SummaryAre we ready for human-level AI by 2030? Anthropic's co-founder answers
Apr 1, 202500:52:06Summary readyAnthropic's co-founder and chief scientist Jared Kaplan discusses AI's rapid evolution, the shorter-than-expected timeline to human-level AI, and how Claude's "thinking time" feature represents a new frontier in AI reasoning capabilities.In this episode you'll hear:Why Jared believes human-level AI is now likely to arrive in 2-3 years instead of by 2030How AI models are developing the ability to handle increasingly complex tasks that would take humans hours or daysThe importance of constitutional AI and interpretability research as essential guardrails for increasingly powerful systemsOur new show This was originally recorded for "Friday with Azeem Azhar", a new show that takes place every Friday at 9am PT and 12pm ET on Exponential View. You can tune in through my Substack linked below. The format is experimental and we'd love your feedback, so feel free to comment or email your thoughts to our team at live@exponentialview.co.Timestamps:(00:00) Episode trailer(01:27) Jared's updated prediction for reaching human-level intelligence(08:12) What will limit scaling laws?(11:13) How long will we wait between model generations?(16:27) Why test-time scaling is a big deal(21:59) There’s no reason why DeepSeek can’t be competitive algorithmically(25:31) Has Anthropic changed their approach to safety vs speed?(30:08) Managing the paradoxes of AI progress(32:21) Can interpretability and monitoring really keep AI safe?(39:43) Are model incentives misaligned with public interests?(42:36) How should we prepare for electricity-level impact?(51:15) What Jared is most excited about in the next 12 monthsJared's links:Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/Azeem's links: Substack: https://www.exponentialview.co/Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azharTwitter/X: https://x.com/azeemProduced by supermix.io
SummaryThe future of Human-AI coexistence, according to Kevin Kelly (co-founder of Wired, futurist, author)
Mar 19, 202500:44:33Summary readyKevin Kelly is a co-founder of Wired Magazine and a renowned author and futurist. Decades ago, Kevin predicted much of today's technological and cultural landscape. In this discussion, he presents his new bold vision for what’s coming next: The Handoff to Bots.In this episode, you’ll hear:Why declining populations will radically reshape economiesWhat a bot-to-bot economy could look and feel likeWhy people of the future might be paid to read emailsHow AI could help humanity find deeper purposeWhy this future might be closer than you thinkKevin’s links:Website/blog: https://kk.org/Twitter/X: https://x.com/kevin2kellyInstagram: / kevin2kelly Azeem's links:Substack: https://www.exponentialview.co/Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar?ori...Twitter/X: https://x.com/azeemTimestamps:(00:00) Intro(02:17) The baby black hole behind Kevin's theory(10:49) Kevin's thesis: The handoff to bots(15:05) This world is closer than we think(19:32) The role of humans in this new world(21:23) Could monopoly influence pose a problem?(28:33) The nature of “struggle” in this new world(32:42) Could we see countries competing for population?(36:06) How a scarcity of humans might change what we value(42:30) What would 1994 Kevin think of 2025 Kevin's blog? Production:Production by supermix.io
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AI in 2025 – A global perspective, with Kai-Fu Lee
Jan 2, 202500:50:23Summary readyKai-Fu Lee joins me to discuss AI in 2025. Kai-Fu is a storied AI researcher, investor, inventor and entrepreneur based in Taiwan. As one of the leading AI experts based in Asia, I wanted to get his take on this particular market.Key insights:Kai-Fu noted that unlike the singular “ChatGPT moment” that stunned Western audiences, the Chinese market encountered generative AI in a more “incremental and distributed” fashion.A particularly fascinating shift is how Chinese enterprises are adopting generative AI. Without the entrenched SaaS layers common in the US, Chinese companies are “rolling their own” solutions. This deep integration might be tougher and messier, but it encourages thorough, domain-specific implementations.We reflected on a structural shift in how we think about productivity software. With AI “conceptualizing” the document and the user providing strategic nudges, it’s akin to reversing the traditional creative process.We’re moving from a training-centric world to an inference-centric one. Models need to be cheaper, faster and less resource-intensive to run, not just to train. For instance, his team at ZeroOne.ai managed to train a top-tier model on “just” 2,000 H100 GPUs and bring inference costs down to 10 cents per million tokens—a fraction of GPT-4’s early costs.In 2025, Kai-Fu predicts, we’ll see fewer “demos” and more “AI-first” applications deploying text, image and video generation tools into real-world workflows.Connect with us:Exponential View
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AI in 2025 – The great normalisation, with Nathan Benaich
Dec 26, 202400:46:11Summary readyNathan Benaich, Founder and General Partner of Air Street Capital, joins me to discuss AI in 2025. From runaway consumer adoption to evolving enterprise moats, from still-elusive AI-driven drug breakthroughs to the renewed vigour in robotics, several core themes stood out.1. Frontier models & AI at scaleIn 2024, we witnessed the astonishing growth of frontier models and their deployment on a massive scale. OpenAI’s GPT-4 and GPT-4 o1, Anthropic’s Claude and Google’s Gemini have all demonstrated that being “at the frontier” is increasingly the price of admission.2. Consumers, voice and infinite worldsOn the consumer side, we have reason to believe 2025 will be the year of AI-enabled workflows that feel truly natural. Voice, multimodality and integration into daily routines—like transcribing my morning thoughts during a commute—are becoming routine.3. Accelerating science & drug discoveryWhile AI accelerates lab automation and data analysis—improving reproducibility and speeding up processes—the promised “AI-designed blockbuster drug” is still in the pipeline. Clinical timelines and regulatory hurdles do not compress easily.4. Geopolitics, funding and the sovereign questionAs training costs skyrocket and models require unimaginable scale, questions mount… Who funds these massive compute requirements? Will nation-states view these labs as strategic assets, akin to telecoms or chipmakers?5. From explosive capability gains to refined utilityWe’ve grown numb to what was once astonishing—perfect speech synthesis, infinite text generation, zero-shot coding. The capabilities of models now surpass human levels in many benchmarks. The next major shifts may be subtler, or simply less obviously spectacular.Connect with us:Exponential ViewNathan Benaich
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