#28: Discussing the marketing jobs market with Sue Keith, Landrum Talent Solutions

Summary

Podcast Summary: B2B Agility™ with Greg Kihlström – Episode #28: Discussing the Marketing Jobs Market with Sue Keith

Episode Details:

• Title: B2B Agility™ with Greg Kihlström
• Host: Greg Kihlström
• Guest: Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions
• Release Date: November 5, 2024

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1. Introduction

Greg Kilstrom welcomes listeners to episode #28 of B2B Agility™, introducing Sue Keith from Landrum Talent Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in marketing and HR positions.

2. Current State of the Job Market

Sue Keith provides an overview of the current economic landscape:

• Contrasting Indicators: While indicators like corporate profits, stock market performance, consumer spending, and declining inflation rates show positive trends, companies remain cautious due to prolonged recession fears over the past two years.

  Sue Keith [02:44]: “Despite all the positive indicators... companies effectively retreated... in response to all these predictions and this constant drumbeat of warning calls about an impending recession.”

• Economic Shifts: The initial surge in hiring post-COVID-19 around 2020-2021 was followed by a significant pullback in late 2022, leading to cautious investment and hiring strategies.

3. Impact on Hiring Climate

The uncertainty in the economy has deeply influenced hiring practices:

• Hiring Slowdown: Companies have frozen headcounts and initiated layoffs, particularly impacting marketing teams.

  Sue Keith [04:23]: “Marketing teams have been particularly impacted. We probably talk to a dozen marketers every week at every level who've been laid off.”

• Rise of Interim Contractors: To maintain productivity without committing to full-time hires, companies are increasingly hiring interim contractors for specific projects or to fill temporary gaps.

  Sue Keith [06:04]: “Marketing leaders still need to get the work done and if they can't hire, they bring on interim support.”

4. The Role of AI in Hiring and Marketing

Greg shifts the conversation to the influence of AI on hiring and marketing strategies.

• Current Use of AI: Marketing teams are leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude to enhance productivity by generating content and graphics more efficiently.

  Sue Keith [10:44]: “What we're seeing is marketing teams are using AI tools to be more productive... producing more content, more stuff.”

• Future Impact: While AI hasn't yet led to significant job eliminations in marketing, there's anticipation it might influence hiring decisions in the near future.

  Sue Keith [10:43]: “We don't see AI or the threat of AI significantly impacting hiring decisions for next year, but I do think there's a good chance it will start to impact hiring in the near future.”

5. Advice for Hiring Managers

Sue Keith offers strategic advice for hiring managers navigating the current market:

• Utilizing Contractors as Proof of Concept: Hiring managers are using contractors to demonstrate the necessity of certain roles, potentially leading to future full-time positions.

  Sue Keith [09:21]: “They're bringing on the contractor as kind of a proof of concept for the role.”

• Balancing Budgets: CMOs are tasked with allocating budgets between program investments and hiring interim support to meet aggressive expectations without increasing headcount.

  Sue Keith [08:17]: “They're finding a balance between using that money to invest in programs and then investing in bringing on people to help execute those programs.”

• Focus on Retention: With teams operating under tight conditions, retaining current employees becomes crucial. Strategies include appreciating team efforts, recognizing contributions, and fostering connections within the organization.

  Sue Keith [15:51]: “Be paying attention to your teams right now, get in front of retention... make sure the work they're doing is they feel like it's being noticed and appreciated.”

6. Insights for Job Seekers

Sue Keith provides guidance for job seekers in the competitive market:

• Honesty in Applications: Candidates are encouraged to be truthful in their applications, especially when responding to screening questions. Dishonesty can lead to disqualification and missed opportunities for other roles.

  Sue Keith [21:14]: “Be honest when applying for jobs... there's a reason to question their integrity and we're probably not going to talk to them.”

• Flexibility with Location: With a shift towards hybrid work models, job seekers may need to be more flexible regarding location requirements to remain competitive.

  Sue Keith [23:12]: “Start figuring out, okay, if you haven't, you've been working remotely... these are some of the things you have to start thinking about.”

7. Importance of Candidate Experience

The quality of the candidate experience has significant implications for company branding and future business prospects:

• Impact on Brand Perception: A poor candidate experience can deter potential customers and harm the company's reputation.

  Sue Keith [18:40]: “Bad candidate experience with your company could actually hurt your company's brand.”

• Strategic Collaboration: Marketing teams should collaborate with HR to enhance candidate experiences, leveraging marketing strategies to improve recruitment processes.

  Sue Keith [20:40]: “Maybe this is where marketing needs to also maybe partner with HR and bring those experience skills that we're used to deploying to the candidate side.”

8. Staying Agile

Both Greg and Sue emphasize the importance of agility in their roles:

• Continuous Learning: Sue stays current by engaging daily with CMOs and marketing professionals, gaining insights that inform her strategies and client advice.

  Sue Keith [24:44]: “I get to talk about marketing strategy, org structures, martech, platforms, stuff with really smart people... that's how I stay really current on things.”

• Benefits of Conversation: Engaging in regular conversations allows for the exchange of valuable information and the identification of gaps or opportunities within the marketing landscape.

  Sue Keith [24:44]: “We can identify what that true skill set looks like... that will be best able to meet the needs of their team.”

9. Conclusion

Greg concludes the episode by thanking Sue for her valuable insights into the marketing jobs market. He encourages listeners to subscribe, leave ratings, and explore additional resources available on the B2B Agility website.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sue Keith [02:44]: “Despite all the positive indicators... companies effectively retreated... in response to all these predictions and this constant drumbeat of warning calls about an impending recession.”

• Sue Keith [09:21]: “They're bringing on the contractor as kind of a proof of concept for the role.”

• Sue Keith [15:51]: “Be paying attention to your teams right now, get in front of retention... make sure the work they're doing is they feel like it's being noticed and appreciated.”

• Sue Keith [21:14]: “Be honest when applying for jobs... there's a reason to question their integrity and we're probably not going to talk to them.”

• Sue Keith [20:40]: “Maybe this is where marketing needs to also maybe partner with HR and bring those experience skills that we're used to deploying to the candidate side.”

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This episode offers a comprehensive look into the current marketing jobs market, highlighting the balancing act companies perform between economic uncertainty and maintaining operational efficiency. Sue Keith's expertise provides actionable strategies for both hiring managers and job seekers to navigate these challenging times effectively.

Transcript

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[Sue Keith]

The Agile Brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to the B2B Agility Podcast where we look at the factors that drive success in B2B marketing with a focus on the people, processes, data and platforms that make B2B brands stand out and thrive in a competitive marketplace. I'm your host, Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, marketing operations and CX, bestselling author and speaker. Now let's get on to the show. In this special episode brought to you by Landrum Talent Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in marketing and HR positions. We're going to talk about a few things today including the state of the job market and how elections, the economy and AI are affecting the plans that hiring managers and job seekers are making for 2025. Joining me today is Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions. Sue, welcome back to the show.

[Sue Keith]

Hi Greg. It's nice to be back.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, always love talking about this stuff with you. So for those that didn't catch the last episode where we talked, could you tell us a little bit about your role at Landrum Talent Solutions?

[Sue Keith]

Sure. As you mentioned, Landrum Talent is a national recruiting firm that specializes in two functional areas, marketing and hr. I. I lead our marketing practice. We help our clients place full time contract and fractional positions on their teams. Everyone on our team, myself included, spent the majority of our careers in marketing roles. So we like to say we speak the language. I think our clients would agree that we're pretty good matchmakers.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Great, Great. So start by talking about just the overall climate right now. I mean, you know, we're approaching the end of the year and lots of stuff in play. You know, elections are in a matter of days, you know, so things are a little in flux and you know, in some ways it can be a little incongruous. Right. So there's positive numbers like jobs numbers, inflation, interest rates down. So it's not all bad news. Certainly there's, there's some not so great news as well. Yet it seems like companies are still behaving as if it's all bad news all the time. Is this what you're saying?

[Sue Keith]

Absolutely. I think I've been saying this for a while, but it feels like it's been opposite day for almost two years now. In fact, I read a stat the other day that in October of 22. So two years ago, economists predicted there was 100% chance of a recession. And I think they're just finally now saying they may have been wrong. So despite all the positive indicators, the last two years have been tough. So you've got corporate profits at record highs. Side note, Goldman Sachs just beat estimates by a billion dollars on the top line. They reported earlier this week and reported a $3 billion profit. That was just for Q3 alone. The stock market has been at record levels. Consumers are still spending, seems like mostly on flights to Europe. Inflation, which to your point, has come down since and you know, houses are still selling for over list with multiple offers. I mean, and that's despite interest rates being at, you know, maybe not record highs, but in recent times record highs. So despite all this positive news, companies effectively retreated, or you might want to say retracted over the past two years, you know, in response to all these predictions and this constant drumbeat of warning calls about an impending recession. And as you mentioned, of course, the upcoming election has some companies on pause before they commit to investing again. It certainly adds some additional uncertainty into the market.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. So what does this do to the hiring climate? I mean, obviously with uncertainty and all this, you know, again, it's not like this is just happening as you said, and I've been experiencing as well, this has been for a couple years. But you know, what is this, what does this do to the hiring climate?

[Sue Keith]

It does a lot and as you mentioned, you know, so it's been about two years since we started. Not to go back too far, but you know, we had Covid in 2020 21, hiring exploded. I've, I've been known to say maybe a little bit recklessly. And then there was just this seismic shift the other direction late 2022. And that's where we still find ourselves, you know, and it was, it really was reaction to the recession fears that I just talked about. Companies pulled back on investments, you know, investments in new technology. So I know a lot of folks who run, you know, startup SaaS, companies who, they, they just can't. No, none of their clients are willing to take the risk on investing in something new. Or haven't been willing to strategic consulting projects. You know, the big, the big consulting firms are really struggling, at least on the commercial side of their businesses. And then, you know, notably in hiring. And you know, and not just hiring. You know, the concern about the economy has meant not just frozen headcounts, but many, many layoffs. And unfortunately, marketing teams have been particularly impacted. You know, we probably talk to a dozen marketers every week at every level who've been laid off. You know, many of them have been looking for several months. So these can be really tough conversations. And on the flip side, this means that marketing teams are running really lean right now. And so what we've seen from a hiring perspective is a market increase in demand for interim contractors. So someone to come in on an interim basis, either fill a gap on your team, help launch a new campaign or a product, or help with a big upcoming event. And it makes sense. Marketing leaders still need to get the work done and if they can't hire, they bring on interim support.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, again, there's some short term things like again, this episode's airing a few days before elections, so there's a lot of talk about that. We're towards the end of a calendar year. There's probably, you know, there's lots of other factors at play here. Do you think it's likely to settle down anytime soon? And I, I mean the job market, not necessarily the political landscape, because we're going to steer a bit clear of that right now.

[Sue Keith]

Yes, we are. So, you know, to answer your question, yes to the settling down, I do think it will, or maybe better said is I'm, we're, you know, we're cautiously optimistic. So there are a few positive signs we're seeing. So first, to the point I made earlier, all those, the recession is coming. The recession is coming. Which are now likely wrong. I think most economists agree at this point that we may have accomplished a soft landing that we've been shooting for, maybe hoping for. So this should make organizations more comfortable with stepping up their investments. Hopefully that means in hiring as well. Secondly, as I mentioned, we specialize in positions in marketing and hr. And our HR practice has seen an increase in, in our clients building their talent acquisitions teams back, meaning companies are hiring internal recruiters again. So that means, you know, it's a great leading indicator that companies are gearing up to hire either later this year or probably more in 2025. And then the third thing we're seeing, well, and this is definitely less scientific, but it's Just as encouraging, we're seeing a lot more marketers post on LinkedIn recently. They've got to do jobs. You know, that, that, that badge that LinkedIn puts up there, there's a lot of those going by in my feed right now. So that's another good sign.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. So given all that we've got the context here, let's talk more specifically about hiring managers and what they should be keeping in mind just given all this and even if uncertainty may be reduced in the short term, what are you hearing from hiring managers as far as their priorities and you know how they're approaching hiring.

[Sue Keith]

Right. So as I mentioned mentioned, marketing teams are running really lean right now. But the expectation, excuse me, the expectations on what they're supposed to deliver haven't changed and in some cases have gotten even more aggressive. But they don't have headcount. So they're getting creative and they're bringing on, like I mentioned, interim contractors to augment their teams. And so typically the budget for contractors comes out of marketing's program budget, not out of the headcount bucket. So CMOs are, you know, they're working on finding a balance between using that money to invest in programs and then investing in bringing on people to help execute those programs. You know, there's also this interesting thing that's going on too that, you know, we've had several clients tell us one of the reasons they're bringing on a contractor with us is they actually have an ulterior motive. What they're doing is by they don't have headcount. Right. So they're bringing on a contractor to help them make the case to their management team that they really do need to have this position, a full time position on their team for the work the contractor is doing. You know, basically they're bringing on the contractor as kind of a proof of concept for the role.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sue Keith]

One of my favorite stories related to this is we place one of our best event contractors, I guess it was a couple of years ago with one of our clients who had wanted to hire a full time employee but couldn't get the headcount approved. And that client called me a few months later and she's like, get this, our contractor is doing such an amazing job and kind of demonstrating the need for that role that her CEO gave her approval to actually hire for the full time position.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Nice. Nice. Yeah, no, I mean that's, I mean I've, I've, I've seen that work as well and I think I've even done that, you know, from a strategic position as well. So it, there's lots of work to be done. As much as we talk about AI taking part jobs or whatever, there's, there's too much work to be done. As you were saying, you know, teams running, running lean and stuff like this. So speaking of AI, how are hiring managers thinking about this and what effect is all this talk and potentially planning around AI and affecting hiring plans and decisions?

[Sue Keith]

That's a really interesting question and really a timely one because for most companies we're about to head into budget season.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Sue Keith]

You know, there's so much buzz right now about AI and how it's going to potentially replace humans, especially marketing humans.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right.

[Sue Keith]

What I'd say is as of now, what we're seeing is marketing teams are using AI tools to be more productive. So typical use case is using ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, insert AI tool to generate content and, or graphics faster. So they're producing more content, more stuff. What we're not seeing yet, and I stress yet, is positions being eliminated due to AI or org charts changing due to AI. So what we're thinking for next year, 2025, we don't see AI or the, the, the threat of AI significantly impacting hiring decisions for next year, but I do think there's a good chance it will start to impact hiring in the near future. And there's also, you know, we stress that every marketing leader needs to be prepared now, especially like I mentioned, if you're heading into budgeting season, just be ready for your CEO or CFO to challenge the size of your current marketing team or your hiring request for next year by suggesting that with AI, maybe the marketing team should be smaller. So even if that's not going to be the case, be prepared to respond and hopefully refute that question.

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[Greg Kilstrom]

So I mean given and you've certainly given some some advice along the way here. But you know, what would you your advice be to hiring managers right now? And you know, also keeping in mind, are there any missed opportunities right now that hiring managers should keep in mind?

[Sue Keith]

Sure. So you know, I've mentioned that marketing leaders are turning to contractors since they can't bring on full time employees, but we've been seeing a lot lately is what I'll call a disconnect between the job description and the required years of experience of the person they want to bring on. And what I mean by this is often the job responsibilities say they more likely align with someone with say 10 or 15 years of experience. But then the job description says two to three.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Sue Keith]

And the reason for this is budget. So the hiring manager really does need a more experienced marketer, but their budget can only support a more junior person at a lower hourly rate. So in these cases we can certainly find more junior level candidates. That's not always the case, but in this environment there are earlier career folks who are not employed and are willing to take on a contract role and hopefully maybe even a contract to permit. But we also consider encourage our clients to consider more seasoned people. So in that case it's a win win. There are, as I mentioned, there are a lot of experienced marketers who are in between jobs right now and for some of them they've been in between jobs for quite a while. So they are more than happy to do tactical work on a contract basis. Maybe not a job they would be wanted for a full time role. It may be too junior for them, but to just get in there, you, you know, they, they're willing, they're looking to get back to doing some work, keeping their brains active, you know, close, keep the gap on their resume, make new connections and you know, they're often willing to take a lower hourly rate than what they normally would have because of the environment and you know, and for some of them they just simply want a break from job searching. I mean, I've been doing this for 12 years and I've yet to find somebody who says this is fun, you know, so.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right, right.

[Sue Keith]

And in fact, when our, one of our recruiters likes to tell like especially this time of year because we have a lot of these going on, she likes to tell her more senior candidates that look at contracting as like a holiday gift from us. So and then on the hiring manager side, so you get, you get someone who needs to work or wants to work and is willing to do a more tactical role at a lower rate than they would be able to normally command in a stronger market. But for the hiring manager, you get the level experience you actually really need to do effective job in the role and someone who has the experience to jump right in and make a difference and doesn't need to be coach mentored like a more junior level person, but you're getting that person at a rate that aligns with your budget. So it's a pretty good deal right now.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Sue Keith]

The second thing I'd like to mention that I think is really important for hiring managers to consider is actually the opposite of hiring. It's retention. So as I mentioned, the teams, marketing teams are running really tight right now and people, we talk to a lot of people who are employed and are really burned out. So what we're telling marketing leaders is be paying attention to your teams right now, get in front of retention. You know, make sure your people feel appreciated even if you can't do it with phrases or bonuses. But make sure the work they're doing is they feel like it's being noticed and appreciated and maybe think about career pathing plans for your people. So even though I'm working really hard right now and I haven't had a raise for a year, may, you know, maybe my manager has told me, well, there's, you know, that's just the career path I'm heading towards. So there's a reason to stay and stick it out because the job market is going to turn. I mean it has to turn at some point and as soon as it does, your people are going to be tempted to see what's out there. So making sure they feel valued and really importantly connected to the organization. You know, with everyone still mostly working remotely, it's hard to, we've lost that, what I call that connective tissue with, amongst the people who work for a company, not just in marketing, but across the organization. So do what you can now to make sure people feel really connected to the company and to the team before the job market does turn and companies like mine start reaching out to them.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. Well, and to look then a little bit from the job seeker perspective. I mean, you mentioned a few things already that relate. But you know, I just want to highlight the, you know, that from a strategic standpoint as a job seeker, much like the strategic aspect of a, of a hiring manager, you know, get a contract, kind of get the, get the foot in the door, so to speak. Certainly, you know, I think that that really resonates and it is a way to, for job seekers to think, you know, what are you seeing from the candidates that you're talking with? Are there, are there any themes that you're seeing from those job seekers?

[Sue Keith]

Unfortunately, not much has changed from our last conversation and probably last couple of conversations. It's still really tough for job seekers at all levels of experience. You know, the market is super competitive. There are hundreds of applications for every job and unfortunately, oftentimes the candidate experience is pretty awful. And you know, I've talked about this before, maybe I should say I've preached about this before, but I really encourage companies to review their candidate experience from application to offer, you know, and especially how they handle candidate rejections. You know, not only treating people kindly is the right thing to do, but you, you really should keep in mind that a candidate is a potential future consumer of your product or buyer of your product. So bad candidate experience with your company could actually hurt your, your company's brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. And, and this is, I, I know I've shared this anecdote on the show before, but I had somebody from Kimberly Clark on a few, this was years ago at this point, but they, they literally calculated the, basically the, the potential loss of revenue from a, a customer of their, you know, they do all kinds of like paper products and, and all that kind of consumer products. They actually calculated the, the potential loss if they gave their, you know, candidates a bad experience and they just chose to choose their competitor on the, you know, on the shelf next door next to it. So it's like this is, you know, this is not just a theoretical thing, right? This is a, this is a real, you know, it's a real thing. And you know, maybe not every, every organization can calculate it in that way, but that just highlighted to me, you know, exactly what you're saying, which is there, there is a cost and you know, there, there's a long term effect of, of all of these things.

[Sue Keith]

That's amazing. I think it's brilliant that she did that. They did that because I find that especially on the consumer product side, right, that's this is, or any consumer business or product that's really important. But it's just, you know, that same even if you're talking about B2B like let's say it's a SaaS company that that candidate just had a really bad experience, could eventually be a future buyer, potential buyer of your software at wherever they land. And I think there's, you know, we put we as mar. And this is where maybe marketing needs to get more involved. We as marketers think very every day about the customer experience, you know, from starting on the, when they land on your website to conversion and beyond. But I don't think a lot of companies, we haven't been seeing a lot of companies are really thinking about the candidate experience. And like I said, maybe this is where marketing needs to also maybe partner with HR and bring those experience skills that we're used to deploying to the candidate side.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's you know, and, and if, if nothing else drives this point home of, you know, how important the, the Canada experience is, you know, let's, let's put some dollars to it and you know and, and illustrate that and you know, hopefully that that moves the needle and, and you know, kind of nudges, nudges people in one direction over the other.

[Sue Keith]

I would love to see that or more of that.

[Greg Kilstrom]

I'll say absolutely. What, what other advice would you give to job seekers in the, in the months ahead?

[Sue Keith]

So, two thoughts. The first one is going to sound really weird and honest or obvious I should say, but be honest when applying for jobs. Like I said, sounds really obvious but we're seeing some bad behavior. And what I mean by this is. So where we see it most often is, you know, a lot of times when you apply for a job, not only do you submit your resume but the company or we have put in some screening questions to really like just make sure we're some of the must haves. You know, in our case questions may be something like do you have at least five years of product marketing experience or do you have people management experience or are you able to commute to the company's Washington D.C. office two days a week? And we find fairly often that people aren't truthful when answering these questions because they want their resume to get through. But what happens is that's really short sighted because we're going to take look at their resume and very quickly determine that they don't have five years of product marketing experience or they live in Chicago and, you know, it's not that.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Hard to find that out, right?

[Sue Keith]

No, it's pretty quick. And what that does is not only does that mean we're not going to talk to you for the position you applied for, but it also means, you know, there's always a possibility that person could be a good fit for another role we're working on. So for example, just this morning someone referred somebody to me for one of the positions we had and I was like, you know what, she's not qualified for that, but she actually is qualified for this other one. And we're, I think one of our teammates is talking to her today. That won't happen. If we see someone who could looks like a good fit for a different role we have, but is just, let's just say, not been truthful in those questions, they've given us a reason to question their integrity and we're probably not going to talk to them. So that's a big one. Even though, and I will not disclose where, but you'd be interesting to know that we see this a regional thing where different regions of the country people tend to answer those questions more honestly than others.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Interesting.

[Sue Keith]

Fun fact. The second thing I'd like to suggest to job seekers is recognize that you may need to be more flexible with your location requirements. So even though most people are still, well, I don't even know if you can say most people, but a good number of people are still working remotely, more and more companies are requiring hybrid work schedules. You see this everywhere. Dell just got a lot of press because they're requiring their salespeople to be back in the office with, you know, two seconds notice. And it's. But more and more companies, leaders are really thinking that some productivity innovation, a lot of things are lost if everyone's 100% remote. So if you're locked in as a candidate, if you're locked in only considering remote only roles, you're really going to be taking yourself out of contention for many jobs. And it may be time to start figuring out, okay, if you haven't, you've been working remotely and haven't been paying for child care or worrying about childcare, these are some of the things you have to start thinking about.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, sue, thanks again for all your insights and, and ideas and definitely love to check in with you on this stuff. I mean, I know there's a lot of people out there you know, this affects people's jobs, this affects people's hiring, and, and just the way companies are able to get work done. So always appreciate checking in with you on, on these things. One last question before we wrap up. I, I like to ask everybody, what do you do to stay agile in your role? And, and how do you find a way to do that consistently?

[Sue Keith]

I love this question. Um, I think my best answer is, so I talk to CMOs and marketing candidates every day, and that's really the best part of my job. You know, I may not be doing marketing anymore, but I get to talk about marketing strategy, org structures, martech, platforms, stuff with really smart people. And not only do I enjoy this, but it also has a benefit. And I'm able to bring these insights to bear when I'm talking to our clients and advising them on, you know, maybe how to shape their teams or really digging into a gap on their team they're trying to fill. And, you know, because we find that oftentimes the initial job description is really not an accurate depiction of what the hiring manager is really looking for. So by having these informed conversations where, you know, I bring all the, the intel I've gotten from all the other marketers I've been talking to, you know, we can. When we're talking to the hiring managers about what they really need, we're able to identify what that true skill set looks like, you know, both quantitative and qualitative, that will be best able to meet the needs of their team. So I think just my job requires me to talk to people day in, day out, and that's how I, I just stay really current on things.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, I, I love that. I feel the same way about having, you know, the opportunity to have a podcast like this because I get to talk to people like you and, you know, like, three times a week. It's. I think it's just, you know, it's amazing what you learn by having conversations and talking through and, you know, even, you know, listen. Listening to conversations. It's amazing what you hear kind of even in between the details. Right, right.

[Sue Keith]

You know, I sometimes think, you know, after I've had a really good conversation with somebody and I've learned something that, you know, is really important in some way, whether it be personal, professional, and I think, what conversations have I missed? Right, right. What don't I know because I didn't talk to someone.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, totally.

[Sue Keith]

Bit of an existential question, but I sometimes wonder.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Well, I love that. And yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll leave everyone with that then. So again, I'd like to thank Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions, for joining the show. You can learn more about sue and Landrum Talent Solutions by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the B2B Agility podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at www.b2bagility.com. That's B2B agility.com while you're there, check out my series of best selling agile brand guides covering a wide variety of marketing technology topics. Or you can search for Greg Kilstrom on Amazon. Until next time, stay focused and stay agile.

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