#38: The layer cake approach to branding with Allison Capaldi and Robert Wolfe, Zeck

Summary

Summary of Episode #38: The Layer Cake Approach to Branding with Allison Capaldi and Robert Wolfe, Zeck

Introduction

In episode #38 of B2B Agility™ with Greg Kihlström, host Greg Kilstrom explores innovative branding strategies tailored for B2B marketers. This episode features Allison Capaldi, Senior Content Manager, and Robert Wolfe, Founder of Zeck, who discuss their unique "layer cake approach to branding." Drawing from their successful ventures with Moosejaw and Crowdrise, Allison and Robert reveal how Zeck is transforming the traditionally mundane board meeting into an engaging and productive experience through nuanced branding.

Background and Journey to Zeck

Allison and Robert share their extensive collaboration history, beginning in 2002 with Moosejaw, where they focused on making outdoor activities fun and engaging. This approach led to Moosejaw’s successful acquisition by Walmart. Subsequently, they co-founded Crowdrise, a platform aimed at simplifying and enhancing charitable giving, which was later acquired by GoFundMe. Their journey culminates with the creation of Zeck, a company dedicated to revolutionizing board meetings.

Emphasizing Brand Across Ventures

Robert Wolfe highlights the consistent focus on branding across all their ventures:
"The through line from the three companies really is brand," [03:16].
He emphasizes their ability to infuse fun and memorability into serious industries, making their brands stand out in competitive markets.

Revolutionizing Board Meetings

The conversation shifts to the common perception of board meetings as dull and inefficient. Robert explains their motivation to transform this space:
"At our own personal experience... we realized this angst was universal," [05:29].
They recognized the universal frustration with board meetings and aimed to create a tool that makes these meetings more engaging and productive.

Integrating Brand into Board Meetings

Allison details how Zeck integrates branding into board meetings without compromising professionalism:
"We are just normal people on that side of things... Let's talk about that misery together," [09:36].
This approach ensures that the brand is present in every customer interaction, fostering a genuine connection rather than a superficial one.

The Layer Cake Approach to Branding

At [10:59], Allison introduces the "layer cake approach," likening branding to a multi-layered cake where each layer represents different touchpoints and experiences. She explains:
"A lot of people get stuck with branding being very one note... But when you cut open an equally beautiful looking cake, it's so much better when it's layered with all these different touch points," [11:15].
This metaphor underscores the importance of a holistic and nuanced branding strategy that goes beyond simple logos and slogans.

Practical Applications of Layered Branding

Robert and Allison provide concrete examples of their layered branding techniques. One standout example is Zeck’s custom cookies sent to customers celebrating their first board meeting using the platform:
"This cookie is to eat or throw at your least productive board member," [09:36].
These personalized gestures create memorable interactions that reinforce their brand identity.

Allison further elaborates on incorporating hidden elements like movie quotes and trivia in customer communications:
"We throw in a little fun and then you respond... you just had a bright point in your day that otherwise would have just been an email," [12:32].
These layers of interaction make the brand experience more engaging and enjoyable for customers.

Building Brand from the Inside Out

The guests stress the significance of internal culture in shaping the brand. Allison explains that Zeck’s internal culture is infused with their brand values, ensuring authenticity in external interactions:
"Our internal staff is naturally infected with the brand," [21:53].
This alignment between internal culture and external branding ensures consistency and authenticity.

Balancing Brand and Business Priorities

When discussing how to maintain a focus on branding amidst business pressures, Robert advises prioritizing branding deliberately:
"If you're not purposefully deciding to prioritize, it falls off the list," [22:42].
He shares past experiences where solely sales-driven campaigns overlooked branding, leading to missed opportunities, and emphasizes the importance of finding a balance.

Maintaining Agility

In the final segments, Allison and Robert discuss maintaining agility through strong internal systems and a supportive culture. Allison highlights the importance of a collaborative environment where every idea is valued:
"We throw out every idea and you never feel like an idiot for throwing them out," [24:22].
Robert adds that structured systems complement their creative processes, allowing them to stay flexible without sacrificing efficiency:
"The blend of those rules allow everyone to embrace the kind of chaos that we help that we think contributes to the brand," [24:59].

Conclusion

Greg Kilstrom wraps up the episode by thanking Allison and Robert for their insights into the layer cake approach to branding. He encourages listeners to explore more about Zeck through the show's notes.

Notable Quotes

• Robert Wolfe: "The through line from the three companies really is brand," [03:16].
• Allison Capaldi: "We are just normal people on that side of things... Let's talk about that misery together," [09:36].
• Allison Capaldi: "When you cut open an equally beautiful looking cake, it's so much better when it's layered with all these different touch points," [11:15].
• Robert Wolfe: "If you're not purposefully deciding to prioritize, it falls off the list," [22:42].

Key Takeaways

1. Holistic Branding: Adopt a multi-layered branding strategy that touches every aspect of customer interaction, much like the layers of a cake.
2. Internal Culture Alignment: Ensure that internal company culture reflects and supports the external brand, fostering authenticity.
3. Prioritized Branding: Deliberately prioritize branding alongside business operations to create lasting connections and brand loyalty.
4. Innovative Customer Engagement: Use personalized and creative gestures to enhance brand memorability and strengthen customer relationships.
5. Structured Agility: Balance creative flexibility with structured systems to maintain agility and effectiveness as the company grows.

This episode offers valuable insights for B2B marketers looking to build nuanced and engaging brands that resonate deeply with their customers, beyond traditional marketing tactics.

Transcript

[T Mobile Representative]

Breaking news. T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Navy Recruiter]

You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy by the Sea, the agile brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to the B2B Agility podcast, where we look at the factors that drive success in B2B marketing, with a focus on the people, processes, data and platforms that make B2B brands stand out and thrive in a competitive marketplace. I'm your host, Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on MarTech marketing operations and CX, bestselling author and speaker. Now let's get on to the show.

[Host]

In a world of fleeting attention spans and oversaturated markets, how can brands truly stand out and build loyalty that lasts, even when it comes to something as overlooked as board meetings? Today we're joined by Allison Capaldi, senior content manager, and Robert Wolf, founder of Zec. Together, they've built not one, but three successful brands, including Moosejaw, which sold to Walmart, and Crowdrise, which sold to GoFundMe. And now they're revolutionizing the ways companies approach board meetings with Zach while continuing to push the boundaries of what it means to build a memorable and lasting brand. Welcome to the show, Allison and Robert.

[Allison Capaldi]

Hey, thank you.

[Robert Wolf]

Thank you.

[Host]

Yeah, looking forward to talking about all this with you. Before we dive in, though, why don't you both share a little bit more about your backgrounds and what led you to launch Zach?

[Allison Capaldi]

I have worked with Robert for many, many moons now. I think 2002 is when we started working together at Moose Jaw in a corner little tiny office baked into a retail space where we decided to try to make everything about backpacking, climbing, being outdoors fun. And not just a serious going on a hiking trip. It was more about fun. And we grew that. And then that got sold like you said. And then Crowdrise was started for a long longer story. I don't know how if we have time for, but I jumped on the bandwagon with that one as well. And we made giving back less miserable and sad as a way. And it worked. And then now Zach is here to revolutionize the way people think about board meetings and how terrible they are. So that's the very short version, but Robert's the founder, so I, I think.

[Robert Wolf]

Sort of the through line from the three companies really is brand and. And for us, we have, we have found ourselves in spaces that are seemingly miserable. So I'm not sure how familiar you are with backpackers and climbers, but they take themselves very seriously. And at Moose Jaw, we had a different take on that and we were really foolish and crazy and we could tell you about some of the, the notable campaigns we did that so many of them you couldn't do today. That's, that's. We were quite polarizing. And then, then crowd rise. If you think about the giving space in 2010, it was actually tactless to tell people how you give back. No one did that. And our idea was if we can figure out a way to make it fun and people actually enjoyed giving back, then people would raise more money for the causes they cared about. And now you can't scroll on social for more than 10 seconds without seeing how someone gives to cause. And then with Zach, we sort of fell into this place where there is nothing more burdensome and painstaking than the board meeting for any company or nonprofit. So we thought, okay, if we can take some of the lessons that we learned at Moose John Crowdrise, and apply them to this new space and actually make board meetings more interesting and valuable and really eliminate the sort of. The sort of natural antagonism between the leadership teams and the board. Then, then we will have done something special and notable. So that's, that's sort of how we got into all of this.

[Host]

Yeah. And I will confess, I've sat through a few board meetings that, that could probably have served as inspiration for you. So.

[Robert Wolf]

Yeah, the worst.

[Host]

So. And let's, let's start there. So, you know, it's not. Board meetings are. It's one of those necessary, you know, let's call it eye roll kind of thing sometimes. I'm sure, you know, great things have happened in, in some board meetings. But to your point, it's, it's there's a lot of wasted time and potential in them and you know, they're not necessarily associated with innovation or branding or, or any of these things. So you touched a little bit on this. But you know what, what inspired you to, to focus there and revolutionize the.

[Robert Wolf]

Space with Zach, really from our own personal experience. So at both, I mean, at both Moose Shell and Crowdrise, we had real boards, right? So you mentioned Moose Shell was acquired by Walmart. And at Crowdrise we had these very famous board members, right? And our team would spend a hundred hours putting a bad presentation together. We would send it to the board. They couldn't read it on their phone because you can't read a slide deck on your phone. And, and the worst part was everyone would prepare for this grandiose board meeting and we get into the room and quite literally reread our board of deck that they had already read. We genuinely thought we were the only ones who were bad at it. It wasn't until after our companies were acquired and we sort of got out there in the world did we realize this angst was universal. And so we sort of set down the path to try and solve it. The, when we launched, I mean, the board meetings are very serious. Security is table stakes. And we thought, okay, we are in the business of creating really microsites. It's a software for our customers. So we didn't go down the path of making it fun or trying to brand it for Zach from the get go because we thought it was too risky for these very serious meetings. It wasn't until we, after we started having this rapport with customers that we thought, okay, we can start pressing this a little bit. And then AL started last year and that's when we really out owned it and took it to a new level. And again, to your point, board meetings are, is not something you think about as being fun. But if you go to our site, there's a wedding crashers quote above the fold on the homepage. Right? So again, the idea is if people actually look forward to these meetings, they'll be more productive.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, well, and talk a little bit more about the, the branding component here. You know, it's to your point, slide decks for these meetings are, you know, pretty, pretty dry and you know, there's some things that have to get reported on and there's certainly requirements, but it doesn't mean that it has to be the typical, you know, drive PowerPoint or presentation or stuff like that. So how do you, how do you look at injecting brand into a board meeting in maybe unexpected ways for both Crowdrise and Zack.

[Allison Capaldi]

We are talking to our customers, our customers in a, in a certain way. But they're. You're going into your board meeting, you're having your board meeting with your board and you have to present a certain way. So we're not talking to you within that board meeting. We're talking to our customers and having this report with them leading up to their meeting. We're helping them with how they should structure their meeting and maybe making it more conversational so that they are injecting brand into that meeting. But really we think about injecting brand into our relationships with our customers. So it might not be on the actual product. You'll see it on our website when we're trying to get you to choose Zach as your, as the product and helping you to realize like we're just normal people who really had a terrible experience with board meetings and realize that everyone has a terrible experience with board meetings. So we're just talking to you as normal people on that side of things. Once you get into the product, it's your stats, it's your data, it's your problems and your wins and your next steps. But the rapport that we develop with our, with our customers and how we talk about the angst of the board meeting on our website and our socials, every single customer interaction that's really, to us where the brand kind of becomes more of this holistic vision. And I think Sometimes people in B2B, they think that, you know, they can't do that, like it's, it's too serious and they have to stop and sell a serious product for a serious issue. And it's like we're all just humans dealing with the similar pain points. So why not just attack it that way and be super transparent? And how we hated board meetings. We bet you hate board meetings. Let's talk about that misery together. But let's also give you a kick ass product that's actually going to solve it and that's kind of how we attack.

[Robert Wolf]

Can you talk about the cookies though, as an example, tangible example of something that we do?

[Allison Capaldi]

So we decided we want to give our customers a little, you know, hooray. It's your first board meeting using Zack. So we wanted to send them cookies. And the amount of conversations we had about what to send them, I can't even explain it to you. Like it's all I did for weeks was talk about cookies because we are so maniacal about it being something that we can inject a brand into so that we're not just sending flowers to their board meeting. We're not just sending a cheese plate. We're not just sending Jimmy John's. Like, like, we wanted it to reflect how we think of board meetings so that their board is seeing this, like, wider vision. So we decided to send cookies, but the cookies had to be custom. So I found this awesome bakery and we send a dozen cookies to many, many of our customers. And one of the cookies, for example, says this cookie is to eat or throw at your least productive board member. That's on the cookie. It's a little notepad cookie that's written, you know, or death to the board deck. And so it's not just cookies that are chocolate chip. It is cookie. They are cookies that are injected with our brand. We find it really hard to not find a touch point that you can't inject brand into when we're dealing with our customers. Right. So there's all these different layers to it.

[Host]

Well, yeah. And to follow on that. So you have what you call the layer cake approach to branding. Cake cookies. I'm getting hungry already. But can you talk a little bit about, you know, what does that mean? And you know, what, what is, what does that consist of?

[Allison Capaldi]

That's just something I came up with because I'm trying to explain to people that a cake, you know, a cake can be sponge and frosting, sponge and frosting, and then you cover it and it looks like a cake. But then another cake could be sponge, sponge, and like a crunchy layer, a jam, a frosting, a different layer of a different flavor of sponge, a different frosting decorations. And from the outside, they look like two similar cakes. But when you cut into them, there are so many layers. And I think that a lot of people get stuck with branding just being very one note and thinking that you have a fun logo. You say a quirky thing instead of sincerely. You might say something like, have the best day. Like, and branding stuff stops at this very vanilla and chocolate cake. I love baking shows. They relax me. So that's why, that's why I think about it that way. But when you cut open an equally beautiful looking cake, it's so much better when it's layered with all these different touch points. Which is cookies is like one of the layers. Right. So it's not. It's just talking about that just to me explains the difference between kind of one note brand marketing and then a really, like, more holistic approach to marketing.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. And can you Maybe give an example of how have you applied that in, in some of the brands that you've worked on?

[Allison Capaldi]

Well, the layer that I think many people don't think about might be we tend to do hidden movie quotes, we tend to do hidden trivia. And then if you get it, we might send you an invisible medallion just as an example, which is very expensive for us to send. We send these invisible medallions via email all the time. But those are things that you might be a CEO or a. You, you. You're someone who's looking at Zach and we are, we're talking to you within that communication. We're throwing in a movie quote because you're a human living your life at this job and we don't want you to be miserable. So we try to inject a little fun and then you respond to us with the answer to the movie quote, we send you an invisible medallion and you just had a bright point in your day that otherwise would have just been an email conversation with some random customer service agent. So that to us layering on the brand and every single interaction that we do. I mean, if you talk to Robert, Robert gives a cell phone out to every single customer. I mean, you can reach us at all times. I mean, we really, if you look at like our G2 reviews, for example, a theme that I see consistently is our customer service. And it's not just like, we provided you great customer service. No, we provide you with, we ask you about your day. We want to know about you and develop a relationship so that when a new product feature drops or something new happens at Zach, we think of you. We actually reach out to you. Like that's a layer too. It's not just this cut and dry sort of brand marketing. Like we really want you to have a great experience with our product. And I think in all three of the companies that we've worked for, that is a huge through line as well. We're not just in it because we're selling a product. We truly, truly believe in our product. And that's no bs. I don't know if I can say that.

[Amazon Music Representative]

Hey, prime members, are you tired of ads interfering with your favorite podcasts? Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to Amazon.com ADFreePodcasts that's Amazon.com ADFreeP Podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads.

[T Mobile Representative]

Breaking news T Mobile network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualify and unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. So I guess since you've both worked together at three companies, I would imagine there's been plenty of learnings along the way. So in other words, the way that you're approaching things at Zach, not only did it inspire your previous board meetings inspired this company, but you know, how much, how much have you been able to learn and apply from some of those past experiences? And you know, how did they shape a company like, like Zach, you want.

[Robert Wolf]

To take that or you want me to al you the. So it's a, it's a great question because so much of what we've done has really come from total chaos. But as we've grown, the chaos doesn't work if you don't have systems around it. So we are crazy about systems and I think they get a bad rap because people think that that will create bureaucracy. It actually makes everyone's job easier. So whether we're doing branded posts on LinkedIn or communicating with our customers via Slack or via email, there is a system behind everything. And we have learned that the only way to make this kind of craziness effective is if you have some structure to it. So while it may appear like it's totally random, we, we are actually following the roadmap because it's too hard to fly a plane if you don't want to know where it's going to land. So we actually have goals for all of this and we measure it and we grade everything and, and then we go and repeat the A's and the B's and very purposefully not repeat the C's, D's and E's. And it's taken us a long time to develop those best practices, but I think it's something that we're actually pretty good at now.

[Host]

Well, and so how much of that, you know, in your experience do you kind of know, going, you know, so, so going to Zach from the previous two companies, how much of that was okay, well, we've got to do this this and this already is it. Does it start as pure chaos? Does it start with a little bit of chaos? Plus okay, here's, here's what we're bringing from the past. Or, and does it just, or are you just able to quickly organize because you've had two successful past companies, you know.

[Allison Capaldi]

Yeah.

[Robert Wolf]

You know, nothing is easy. I think it's a little, I think it's a little bit of everything. So we, we were, we wanted to make sure that we developed good systems from the get go because it was, we have very few regrets, but that's, that's one of them is we were always trying to catch up. So we actually raised money pre product in order to be able to more efficiently develop those systems. So we had Salesforce and HubSpot from the get go, for example. But then as we grew and we started adding more of our brand, again, I mentioned this previously, but when we launched we really weren't as. We didn't have the vision for being as crazy as we think we are today. And it was really driven by our customers. So as we started communicating with them just more naturally, we realized, okay, this, we don't have to take ourselves so seriously even though we are in a very serious space. And that's, that's definitely resonated. But, but again, as you grow when there's three people at the company, it's fine. You don't need them. When there's 30 and then 300, you have to have those systems in place or it just doesn't work.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and how much. I mean, the, the two of you have been working together, you know, at three different companies. How does you know? A lot of times in my experience, brand and, and stuff is kind of an afterthought. It's like, let's start a company, we have some good tech and then let's slap a logo on it and, and kind of hope for the best or whatever. What does it feel like? Or how do you approach things knowing that it, it seems, at least from what you're describing, the brand is part of the mix from day one. Right. Is that, is that safe to assume?

[Robert Wolf]

Yeah, I think absolutely. I mean, we probably spent more time trying to figure out if the word Zach would look good on a T shirt than any company in history. But I do think there's sort of a spectrum. So while we didn't launch with another, we have a almost famous quote on our homepage. Right. That wasn't live from day one, but when we talk to customers, the idea that call One had to be the top priority was it had to be joyous. Right. There had to be joy on that call because that's the kind of relationship we want to have with our customers. We also recognize it doesn't work for everyone. So our slogan at our prior company, Crowdrise, so you think about, we were in the giving space and our slogan was, if you don't give back, no one will like you. And when we launched, literally, American Cancer Society left us out of the room. Right. But three, four or five years later, when we became the platform for more of a college age audience, American Cancer Society came to us and said, hey, our customer is graying. We. And we became their platform. And I think the same that's happened at Zack also.

[Allison Capaldi]

Yeah, yeah. I also think that branding from the inside out, like Robert and I are, this is us. Like we are. Our every meeting is crazy. We get the giggles, the whole group does. We get the AI summaries. It's talking about nonsense for half of it, most likely. We have slack channels for contests internally. It's not just a stick, a pool table and a room ping pong and get people lunch every now and then type of brand. It's which I think is like the one cake is like ingrained in our culture that we are, that we are like this. And you said joyous. I've never heard you say joyous more joy. So that is a reflection. Our internal staff is naturally infected with the brand and therefore it makes it easier for the brand to then hit the customers because it's not just this hollow brand internally either. So that's just one other, one other aspect of it that we take very seriously.

[Host]

Well, yeah, and I mean it sounds like there's, there's a lot of detail, you know, and, and to your point about the, the layer cake and just building a nuanced brand, let's just say is there's a lot of details in there and, and maybe some of the trivia questions not everybody gets, but the ones that do, it's special to them. You know, kind of to, to reiterate what you were saying, how do you, what would your advice be for those. You know, I'm sure there's people listening to this and being like, I want, I want that kind of brand, but I've got to pay the bills and I've got to do this and, and that. Like, how do you find time? How do you recommend that they stay focused on some of those detail? I mean the business has got to make money. It's got to have customers, product's gotta be great. But how, how, how would you recommend that someone stays focused on some of those details that really make that nuanced brand?

[Robert Wolf]

Yeah, I, I think if you're not purposefully deciding to prioritize, it does, it falls off the list. And, and I, I remember very specifically when we started, when we started grading our email blasts at Moosejaw. We did so based on the sales we were driving and some of the campaigns that we did, they would never drive sales because they were just branding and they were, they were insane. And as we graded those campaigns and they weren't driving sales, we started taking them off the list and that was a mistake. So we had, we had to figure out a different grading system. Right. Because we knew we wanted to do that. So I just think if, if you're not prioritizing it and not putting real systems around it and measuring it usually end up to your point, Greg, Prioritizing sales. And we've, we've had the opposite approach. We know that yes, our business can work if we pay for every sale, but it works a whole lot better if we're notable enough that our customers are telling their friends about it. And so much of that is because of the branding, because they actually like building their board decks and pre Z. It was, it was quite literally the most stressful part of their job. And I think that's the kind of behavior that we're changing.

[Host]

Well, Robert, Alison, thanks so much for joining today. Really appreciate it. One last question for both of you. I like to ask everybody, how do you stay agile in your respective roles and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Allison Capaldi]

That's a good one. I think that I'm lucky because I'm surrounded by people who feed into this every single day. So every day you go to work like it is. I told Robert before this call, I'm like, we should have got on a five minute call beforehand because we feed off of each other and have a really great energy and keep that going. No, I think another thing is, no question thought like we just, the smallest, dumbest thing is okay over here and we throw out every idea and you never feel like an idiot for throwing them out. And creating a culture that allows that is is key.

[Robert Wolf]

Yeah. I think that the culture and the systems, again they encourage us to be agile. So we have the same five rules at all three of our companies. And again, I think the blend of those rules allow everyone to embrace the kind of chaos that we help that we think contributes to the brand.

[Host]

Yeah, love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Allison Capaldi and Robert Wolf from ZEC for joining the show. You can learn more about Allison, Robert and Zach by following the links in the show Notes.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Thanks again for listening to the B2B Agility podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at at www.b2b agility.com that's b2b agility.com While you're there, check out my series of best selling agile brand guides covering a wide variety of marketing technology topics. Or you can search for Greg Kilstrom on Amazon. Until next time, stay focused and stay agile.

[Robert Wolf]

The Agile Brand.

[T Mobile Representative]

Breaking News T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to 800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service report in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.