#52: Navigating the effect of AI on marketing jobs and the job market with Sue Keith, Landrum Talent Solutions

Summary

B2B Agility Podcast Summary: Navigating the Effect of AI on Marketing Jobs and the Job Market with Sue Keith

Podcast Information

• Title: B2B Agility with Greg Kihlström™: MarTech, E-Commerce, & Customer Success
• Host: Greg Kihlström, The Agile Brand
• Episode: #52
• Release Date: July 15, 2025
• Guest: Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions

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Introduction

In episode #52 of the B2B Agility podcast, host Greg Kihlström engages in a profound discussion with Sue Keith, the Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions. The episode delves into the dynamic landscape of B2B marketing, focusing on how Artificial Intelligence (AI) is reshaping marketing jobs and the broader job market. The conversation offers valuable insights for marketing leaders, hiring managers, and job seekers navigating these transformative times.

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Guest Background and Role at Landrum Talent Solutions

At [02:14], Sue Keith introduces her professional journey, highlighting her diverse educational background in accounting and French, and her transition from auditing at Deloitte to a reporting role in marketing at a large telecom company, MCI. Over the past twelve years, Sue has been instrumental at Landrum Talent Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in HR and marketing positions. She oversees the marketing division, which encompasses four key areas: marketing, communications, product, and creative. This comprehensive oversight allows Landrum Talent Solutions to effectively place full-time, contract, and fractional roles across these domains.

Notable Quote:
"I'm actually on career number three, and I like to say only the first one was intentional." [02:22]

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Current State of Hiring for Marketers

Discussing the present hiring climate at [03:22], Sue Keith emphasizes the challenges marketers face amid ongoing political and economic uncertainties. Companies are hesitant to make significant investments, including in hiring, leading to a stagnant job market for marketing professionals. Marketing functions have been particularly affected, with federal agencies and government contractors experiencing preemptive layoffs due to anticipated program cuts.

Moreover, Sue points out a significant trend where employees are less likely to leave their jobs voluntarily, even if dissatisfied. This reluctance exacerbates the difficulty for marketing leaders to fill vacancies, as the usual turnover that facilitates new hiring is minimal.

Notable Quote:
"People simply aren't leaving their jobs. So if you think about how voluntary attrition is usually a normal part of any hiring cycle... people are really spooked right now." [03:22]

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Adapting Hiring Strategies Amidst Uncertainty

At [04:40], Greg Kihlström inquires about how marketing leaders are adjusting their hiring strategies in response to these challenges. Sue highlights the prevalent mantra of "doing more with less," where marketing teams are stretched thin due to layoffs and hiring freezes. To cope, marketing executives are increasingly turning to contractors to fill gaps without the need for headcount approval. This approach allows teams to continue their work by utilizing their own budgets, effectively balancing investments between programs and execution support.

Additionally, Sue introduces the concept of "proof of concept," where contractors are brought in to demonstrate the value of specific roles. Successfully showcasing the impact of contractors can eventually justify the need for permanent headcount increases.

Notable Quote:
"Marketing execs are turning to contractors, to help fill the gaps when they can't get headcount approval to hire full time positions." [04:49]

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The Impact of AI on Marketing Jobs

A significant portion of the discussion, starting at [06:33], centers on the role of AI in the future of marketing jobs. Sue addresses the prevailing narrative that AI might replace marketing roles entirely. Referencing a survey by the AI Marketing Institute, she notes that over half of the respondents believe AI will eliminate more marketing jobs than create them by 2025.

However, Sue contends that while AI will undoubtedly automate certain tasks, it won't wholly replace the marketing function. Instead, she advocates for leveraging AI to enhance marketing efforts. She urges marketing leaders to shift the narrative from AI as a threat to AI as a tool for efficiency and effectiveness.

Notable Quote:
"Do I believe the entire marketing function will be replaced by robots? No. But I do think it's important for all of us to acknowledge that certain responsibilities will likely be replaced by AI." [07:01]

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Strategic Integration of AI

Sue offers strategic recommendations for marketing leaders to integrate AI effectively:

1. Develop an AI Strategy or Roadmap: Outlining clear use cases for AI, such as pipeline acceleration, enhanced customer profiling, hyper-personalization, and streamlined campaign execution.

2. Participate in AI Councils: Encouraging marketing leaders to take on leadership roles within cross-functional AI groups to influence and oversee AI strategy implementation across the organization.

3. Focus on Strategic Use Cases: Move beyond using AI for content generation to leveraging it for high-impact areas that demonstrate measurable contributions to the business.

Notable Quote:
"Boards, CEOs, CFOs, are all asking their functional leaders... to show how they're incorporating AI in order to run their teams more efficiently and, or more effectively." [07:51]

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AI and Entry-Level Marketing Roles

The conversation also touches on the potential displacement of entry-level marketing positions due to AI automation. Sue analyzes the role of a Marketing Coordinator, which involves a variety of discrete tasks that AI could potentially handle. She expresses concern over how new marketers develop strategic skills without hands-on entry-level experience, posing a challenge for sustainable growth within marketing teams.

Notable Quote:
"If your company doesn't have an AI council... start one. So position yourself, the marketing leader... as the leader in your company who's going to help oversee the strategic imperative for the organization." [09:21]

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Advice for Job Seekers in a Challenging Market

Transitioning to [15:58], Sue provides actionable advice for job seekers navigating the tough job market exacerbated by AI advancements:

1. Network Intensively: Emphasizes that most jobs are secured through networking rather than online applications. Joining professional associations can provide built-in networking opportunities and job leads.

2. Volunteer: Engaging in volunteer work not only fills time productively but also expands one's network and can lead to unexpected job opportunities.

3. Create Networking Groups: For those uncomfortable with traditional networking, forming groups with fellow job seekers can offer mutual support and collective opportunities.

4. Maintain Professionalism on LinkedIn: Advises keeping political opinions off LinkedIn to avoid alienating potential employers and connections.

Notable Quote:
"It's to feel like you've passed some time in the day and importantly you never know who might, who you might meet during those volunteer opportunities who might be connected to someone who could help you." [16:42]

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Staying Current Amidst AI and Market Challenges

In the concluding segments, Sue shares her personal strategies for staying relevant in the rapidly evolving marketing landscape influenced by AI. She actively participates in virtual CMO roundtables, continuously educates herself on emerging AI use cases, and advocates for strategic AI implementation within marketing teams. Sue underscores the importance of a collaborative approach, emphasizing that effectively leveraging AI requires collective effort and ongoing education.

Notable Quote:
"AI is creating an existential crisis for marketing. So I am doing everything I can to stay current on AI... it really takes a village when it comes to AI." [18:38]

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Conclusion

Episode #52 of the B2B Agility podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of the intersection between AI and marketing roles. Sue Keith provides a balanced perspective, acknowledging the disruptive potential of AI while advocating for its strategic integration to enhance marketing effectiveness. The episode serves as a valuable resource for marketing professionals seeking to navigate the complexities of AI-driven transformations and for job seekers aiming to thrive in an evolving job market.

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Key Takeaways:

• AI as an Enhancer, Not a Replacement: While AI will automate certain marketing tasks, it presents opportunities for marketers to leverage technology to drive greater business value.
• Strategic AI Integration: Developing clear AI strategies and participating in cross-functional AI initiatives are crucial for marketing leaders.
• Adaptable Hiring Practices: Utilizing contractors and demonstrating their value can help maintain marketing operations during hiring freezes.
• Proactive Networking for Job Seekers: Building and maintaining a robust professional network is essential for securing job opportunities in a competitive market.

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For more insights and episodes, visit www.b2bagility.com.

Transcript

[Sue Keith]

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[Sue Keith]

The Agile Brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to the B2B Agility Podcast where we look at the factors that drive success in B2B marketing, with a focus on the people, processes, data and platforms that make B2B brands stand out and thrive in a competitive marketplace. I'm your host, Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, marketing operations and CX, bestselling author and speaker. Now let's get on to the show. This episode is brought to you by Landrum Talent Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in marketing and HR positions. My guest today has been keeping us up to date with the current state of hiring for marketers on a quarterly basis, which has taken us on quite a rollercoaster ride. Today we're going to look at how marketing and communication execs are responding to the latest developments in the world while still needing to get their work done. To take a look at the latest here, I'd like to welcome back to the show Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions. Sue, welcome back to the show.

[Sue Keith]

Thanks Craig. Always great to talk to you. I'm laughing a little bit about the roller coaster because that is very true.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yep, yep. Maybe there's other metaphors as well, but we'll stick with an amusement park for now.

[Sue Keith]

That works.

[Greg Kilstrom]

So for those that haven't caught you on the show before, why don't we start with you giving a little background on yourself and your role at Landrum Talent Solutions.

[Sue Keith]

Sure. Well, I'm actually on career number three, and I like to say only the first one was intentional. I have a dual degree in accounting and French, which I know is a weird combination, and I started my career in audit at Deloitte and then I stumbled into a reporting job in the marketing department of mci, which was a large telecom company that certain people of a certain age may remember. And that kickstarted my marketing career. And then for the last 12 years, I've been with Landrum Talent, as you said, a national recruiting firm that specializes in two functional areas, HR and marketing. Marketing is the practice that I lead. And marketing is a big category. So we see it as four buckets. Marketing, communications, product and creative. And then we place full time, contract and fractional positions within those areas.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Great, great. So, yeah, let's as, as we've done, you know, as I mentioned, you know, as we, as we do on a, on a quarterly basis here, let's check in and, you know, talk about state of hiring for marketers today. Where do things stand and you know, what's changed from a marketing hiring manager or a leader's perspective since we spoke a few months ago?

[Sue Keith]

Not much has changed, unfortunately, given the political and economic uncertainty that we continue to operate under. Companies are still sitting on the sidelines, meaning. And what I mean by that is they're holding off and making investments, which includes hiring. As we talked about on past shows, marketing, unfortunately, marketing, the marketing function, I'd say, has been hit particularly hard. And as you know, being here in Washington with me, the doge cuts to federal agencies have been pretty brutal. And we're also seeing government contractors. You know, there's companies that sell products or services to the federal government doing preemptive layoffs with the expectation that some of their major programs may be cut. And there's another contributing factor at the macro level, People simply aren't leaving their jobs. So if you think about how voluntary attrition is usually a normal part of any hiring cycle. People come and go from jobs throughout the year, but people are really spooked right now. So if you're in a steady job, you're staying put, even if you're really unhappy. That all said, I hope I'm not jinxing this by saying that the uncertainty seems to be slowing down a little bit. The administration has backed off on some of the more extreme tariffs and policies. The market has mostly recovered, although it could be down 1,000 points right now. As I'm saying this, honestly, some of the administration's actions are becoming normalized. So we're cautiously optimistic about the second half of this year when it comes to a pickup in hiring.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. So how are you marketing leaders adapting hiring strategies in response to some of these things that you just mentioned?

[Sue Keith]

We've talked about this before. So many marketing leaders are being asked to do more with less. It's become a bit of a mantra in the marketing world, when someone says that phrase, everyone nods knowingly. Marketing teams are being stretched really thin. They've had layoffs or they've had people leave. Although I just got done saying no one's leaving. But occasionally someone does. And they haven't been able to backfill those positions. But the expectations of what marketing's supposed to deliver are, are just as high or sometimes higher than ever before. So to get the work done, marketing execs are turning to contractors, help fill the gaps when they can't get headcount approval to hire full time positions. So what does that mean? They're using their own budgets to bring out a contractor, thus avoiding any tricky negotiations with hr, which means they're dipping into their own program dollars and striking a balance between investing in programs and investing in people to help execute those campaigns. The other interesting thing we're seeing is what I call a proof of concept. So this situation, the hiring manager, like I said, can't get approval to hire for a position they really need on their team. So they bring in a contractor to demonstrate to their leadership team, to their management team, the value of having someone in that position and then use that proof, if you will, to eventually secure the headcount. And we've seen the strategy be effective numerous times with our clients. And what's really interesting in a perverse way is that this spike in demand for contractors is very similar to what we experienced during the first year of COVID where companies put all hiring like fully on hold. But our clients came to us because they still needed to get the work done. So they brought in contractors because that was the most effective way to have enough people to get their jobs done without being allowed to hire full time employees. So it's a bit of deja vu for our team right now.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. You know, on this show we talk quite a bit about AI and you know, I would consider myself generally an optimist when it comes to things like that. But there, you know, there are many that have been saying, you know, AI is going to kill marketing. Some slightly less extreme things, but still kind of towards the same ends. You know, first is, is that hyperbole or is there truth to it? And you know, how soon is soon?

[Sue Keith]

So this is a hot button issue for me. You're right, there's a narrative out there that AI is going to eventually replace the marketing function. In fact, the AI Marketing Institute just published their 2025 survey where more than half of the response believe that more marketing jobs will be eliminated by AI. Than created by AI. Do I believe the entire marketing function will be replaced by robots? No. But I do think it's important for all of us to acknowledge that certain responsibilities will likely be replaced by AI or agentic technology. However, and this is where the hot button comes in, I think it's also really important that we, as marketing leaders, or former marketing leader in my case, step up and start to reframe that narrative to one that says we're going to leverage AI to do our jobs better. This may be oversimplifying, but I've been saying we need to demonstrate that AI will help marketers do marketing better.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, definitely. And so, you know, to, to that point, how should marketing leaders respond to this and do what you're talking about there?

[Sue Keith]

So boards, CEOs, CFOs, are all asking their functional leaders, all functional leaders, whether it be marketing, finance, HR ops, to show how they're incorporating AI in order to run their teams more efficiently and, or more effectively. And the unspoken part of that question is, can you use AI to do your jobs with fewer people? The majority of the marketing leaders I talk with, we host a CMO roundtable every month, are still talking about using AI to generate more content, faster content and or imagery. That's not the answer your CFO is looking for and it's not going to protect your team. So that's why I'm encouraging all the marketing leaders I talk with to start talking more about what I call strategic use cases for AI. So whether it's pipeline acceleration, better icp, intel, hyper personalization, streamlining your overall campaign execution process. So these are use cases that demonstrate that AI will help marketing contribute even more to the company than ever before. I'd also say your marketing team should have an AI. Call it an AI strategy, call it a roadmap, call it a plan that lays out the AI use cases in your projects for the next one or two years. Now, of course, this is best you can, knowing that this technology is changing, getting more intelligent every second. But according to that same marketing AI Institute report I mentioned something like, I think it was around 75% of marketing leaders who responded to, they don't have a plan for incorporating AI into their, you know, their daily lives, if you will. Yeah, I also have another recommendation and I can't take credit for this. I was listening to CMO Huddles podcast and I, I think this is a really good idea. So if your company has an AI council, so, and a lot of companies are doing this, they're, they're Establishing a cross functional group that's overseeing AI strategy implementation and governance across the entire company, across the enterprise. Make sure you're a part of that group. In fact, make sure you take on a leadership role in that group. And even better, if your company doesn't have an I AI counselor, whatever you want to call it, in place, start one. So position yourself, the marketing leader for the organization, as the leader in your company who's going to help oversee the strategic imperative for the organization. And it's smart for a lot of reasons, but if you think about it, if you're a key member of the overall company's AI team, you'll be a part of, and more importantly, you can get ahead of any conversations about AI technology that could affect the people on your team.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great, great idea. I mean, you know, be, be part of the solution, so to speak. Right, Exactly.

[Sue Keith]

Not the problem.

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[Greg Kilstrom]

In terms of planning out, and I agree with you, it's good to plan out knowing that you know, the, the world's gonna keep evolving and changing, but it's good to at least have a plan and understand potential implications. One of the things, and there's been a few high profile articles about this topic as well. One of the particular threats that's been talked about is just AI being a threat to entry level jobs, whether it's in marketing or otherwise. And so those recent or soon to be college grads out there, you know, potentially not even getting an opportunity to, to get into the workforce because AI is doing some of those, those jobs. What should leaders be doing about this as they're planning, you know, doing some of the planning that you've already talked about.

[Sue Keith]

I have to admit I'm not sure I would land on this, this topic. I struggle to see how it plays out, but I also understand, I think it's going to play out. So I was thinking about this. So let's take an entry level marketing coordinator as an example. So you know, this person is really a jack of all trades. One day they might be working on the logistics for an event, the next day they might Be pulling zoom lists or zoom, excuse me, zoom info lists.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right.

[Sue Keith]

And then the next day they, they might be updating pages on the website. So these are all discrete and, and unrelated tasks. So the coordinator is obviously managed by someone who directs their work. So I guess how it would play out with AI then instead of hiring a human, that manager would use AI agents to do those various tasks that I mentioned. So I guess that's how this plays out. So my, originally I reacted to, when we were talking about this question, I reacted to say, thinking, well, that can't work, you need a human. But I could see a world where that would happen. But the other thing you and I briefly talked about, how do you become a seasoned strategic marketer if you haven't done the stuff, if you haven't done the entry level stuff and grown into that role? I think someone would have an argument for me with that. But that's what I, I struggle a little bit. But to answer the question about what leaders should be doing, I say be prepared for your cfo, your cf CEO, your board, basically to challenge you on every headcount request you make.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Sue Keith]

And honestly to challenge you on the headcount you currently have. So their default response is probably going to be why can't AI do that role? So I say just make sure you have a good answer. Ready?

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, to, to the point, I think there's lots of things to be uncovered here and discovered as well. But you know, I think to your point about how do you grow, not only grow as an individual in marketing, as to be strategic, but, but also how do you grow and sustain a sophisticated marketing operation if you don't know how it's being done? Right, exactly. Those are two sides of the same coin really. I think to me this speaks to at the very least the AI agents and the agentic approach and all that stuff. It needs to be very transparent and it needs to teach its managers whether that's a marketing manager, director, vp, cmo, at whatever level it is. But it needs to be able to talk about what it's doing so that, I mean, A, the CMO can make sure that the right things are being done, but also B, to educate those that aren't familiar with some of the details. In other words, I think AI becomes a teacher and an intern or entry level marketer all at the same time if it's done successfully.

[Sue Keith]

Right.

[Greg Kilstrom]

But that's just a hypothesis. Right. So yeah, more to come on all of that, but it's definitely something to Consider and it's something where again those that are being pressured for reducing headcount make sure that you have a sustainable plan for the Org. If you are replacing with AI, it doesn't mean it can't be done. You could come back three years later and realize that you don't actually know how your marketing work is being done.

[Sue Keith]

It could be, yeah.

[Greg Kilstrom]

So you know we've been talking a lot from the leader and the manager perspective here. What about the job seekers out there? You know, how can job seekers best navigate what continues to be a challenging job market?

[Sue Keith]

It certainly continues to be. So let's lift up from the AI conversation and go back to the overall hiring market. My first piece of advice and my probably only piece of if I had to pick one piece of advice, it's not revolutionary, it's not brilliant. It's to network as hard as you can because chances are you are not going to get a job from applying online. It happens. But for applying online for a job with you and 300 of your other marketing friends. So there's a couple of things you can do and I know networking just sounds really awful to everybody but it's particularly challenging for certain people who just really aren't comfortable with it. So couple ideas. Join professional associations. Whatever your functional area is, join those associations. So they create these built in networking groups for you and they, they're also can be a good source of job leads. Volunteer. So I have yet in 12 years to meet somebody who likes looking for a job. So it's, it can be isolating, it can be frustrating, it can be demoralizing. So if you get out there and volunteer, first of all, get out of the house, get you out of the house and away from, you know, scrolling LinkedIn it's a really good way about feeling how you've passed some time in the day and importantly you never know who might, who you might meet during those volunteer opportunities who might be connected to someone who could help you. It's, it opens a network that you normally you chances are would never have and then you know, to the point about certain people really uncomfortable in networking. Create your own networking group with other job seekers. I know from a few years ago a group about 10 or 12 people who did this and they all found it to be really helpful. In fact I think they've all, you know, they all landed jobs and they're still in touch. So especially if what I call cold call networking is really challenging for you with people you don't know well makes you, you know, those people that doing all that makes you uncomfortable. This is a nice way to bring together people you know and have some camaraderie as you go through this process. And then my last piece of somewhat random but I think is important advice I said this last time we talked about I strongly recommend you keep politics out of your LinkedIn posts. So it's important to be active on LinkedIn if you're especially if you're looking for a job. That is important. But try to do your best to keep politics out of it. It's really important to remember that about half the audience on LinkedIn will be on the other side of wherever you stand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, Great, great advice. Well, sue, thanks as always for joining here. One last question. I know I've asked you this before, since you've been on before, but how are you staying in your role amidst the roller coaster we mentioned earlier?

[Sue Keith]

Well, apologies to you and our listeners. I'm going back to talking about AI, and I say that facetiously, but I am doing everything I can to stay current on AI. I mean, it could be a 24.7job if you wanted it to be, but AI is having a significant impact on marketing. I'm hearing it, I'm seeing it, I'm living it. And I really don't think it's too dramatic to say that AI is creating an existential crisis for marketing. So as I mentioned, we host virtual CMO roundtables every month, and I'm constantly quizzing our participants on how they're using AI. I'm also sharing with them what I've learned about new AI use cases. As I said, I want to talk about more strategic use cases, not Hey, I spit out seven blog posts this week which would have taken me three weeks earlier prior, but ultimately I'm using I'm going to use a borrow a trite term, but it really takes a village when it comes to AI.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Sue Keith, Corporate Vice President at Landrum Talent Solutions, for coming back to the show. And thanks to our sponsor, Landrum Talent Solutions, a national recruiting firm specializing in marketing and HR positions. You can learn more about sue and Landrum Talent Solutions by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the B2B Agility podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at www.b2b agility.com. that's b2b agility.com while you're there, check out my series of best selling agile brand guides covering a wide variety of marketing technology topics. Or you can search for Greg Kilstrom on Amazon. Until next time, stay focused and stay agile.

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