C (2:40)

Yeah, sure. And I agree. It's kind of just swirling around us all the time.

D (2:44)

Right.

C (2:44)

And it changes so quickly, it's tough to stay up. I mean, at Rainfocus, we define agentic AI as this next wave of AI, but the ability to take action.

D (2:54)

Right.

C (2:55)

So that's what sets it apart from generative or predictive, where, you know, those, those are great at output, they're great at consolidating information, analyzing. But it's generally things you need to take and then go do something with. Where agentic takes you to the next step where you actually can take action for you.

D (3:11)

Right.

C (3:11)

It can replace some of the tasks that you would do or others your customers would do. And that's. That's where we draw the line of distinction.

B (3:18)

Yeah, yeah. And I think it is. Yeah. I mean, we're certainly, I think most people are at this point used to the idea of, like, you prompt and then you wait, and then you prompt and then you wait. So, you know, to be able to have AI take some further steps for you besides that, that you're outside of that back and forth can be really powerful. How are you seeing agentic AI in the event experience? You know, whether it's personalizing, doing other things, and, you know, really able to tailor individual attendee needs, preferences, things like that?

C (3:51)

Yeah, I think there's a lot of application in the event space, but specifically on the attendee side, when you think about personalization, you know, even over the last 15 years, you have machine learning and you have recommendations, and then, you know, that's progressed and gotten better, but it really just kind of leads a person to water. You know, it's like, hey, here's some things we think you should do. Here's some suggestions we have for you.

D (4:12)

Right.

C (4:13)

And agentic really takes you to this whole new world where you can create an entirely holistic experience for somebody that's. That's not only personal, but can become more personalized as they interact.

D (4:25)

Right.

C (4:26)

So with recommendations, it's really just responding to behaviors or maybe, you know, some demographics. It didn't have the ability for you to interact specifically with it, take action for you, and then build on that. Right. And agentic really changes your ability to get down to the individual and take them to a much deeper level of personalization than we've ever been able to do.

B (4:46)

Yeah. And so then on the, the, on the back end of that, you know, how, how can it work and help support still support those attendees, but from the organizational standpoint, like, what can agentic AI enable from, you know, customer support or. Or things like that for, you know, kind of behind the scenes?

C (5:06)

Yeah, that's a. That's a great question. Because it's. For us, it's interesting because we don't offer customer support per se.

D (5:12)

Right.

C (5:12)

But we feel like the solutions we're putting out there can play a big role here. Because if you. If you think about, like, going to a grocery store, you're out of town, you go into a grocery store and you know kind of how things are laid out, but you got to go find things, and you go and ask an employee or you look at the signs or whatever. That's kind of the world we sometimes throw an attendee into. And so they end up in the support box and they're asking questions and whatever. Agentic AI is all about a concierge experience, you know, almost white glove at a personal level. Right. So you think of that grocery store. If I walk in and I have a concierge who's just going to walk me around the store, take me to. Directly to the things, it just automatically eliminates a huge amount of questions, problems, things that would end up in the support box. So we kind of view it as, let's. Let's solve the problem before it even becomes a problem. And by doing that, there's a huge percentage of the support questions that just don't even end up there, even though that's not really the core problem we're trying to solve, but it just naturally goes there.

B (6:09)

Yeah, yeah. And so then let's talk a little more specifically about Rainfocus and your core focuses. You know, how is agentic AI playing a role now? And, you know, how do you. How do you kind of see that moving in the months to come?

C (6:23)

Yeah. So let's start with just the attendee facing things, because I think there's a few different areas. Right. That we think about it. And so we're working through attendee agent capability and agentic experiences there. And I think that's a big part of what we want to do.

D (6:37)

Right. That the.

C (6:38)

Our customers. Customers have to have a good time. They have to be led along, and that leads to better data, frankly.

D (6:45)

Right.

C (6:45)

The more engaged an attendee can be, the more that. That fills in their profile and kind of hits at the core value of what Rainfocus is trying to provide. So that. That's a big area of focus for us. So we're also Thinking on the admin side, you know, how do we use agents? How do we help our users get to completion quicker? How do we make sure that what we're doing in our administrative tools are allowing people to create the experiences they need to create?

D (7:08)

Right.

C (7:08)

Every person who runs an event is trying to create the best experience out there. And the, the whole agent model allows you to step into a world that can be very complex and very snowflakey and bring that down into really getting at the heart of what you're trying to accomplish. And so that's an area for us as well. And then the last one is, and you know, maybe, maybe talk more about this. But how does agent work and multi agent capability, interoperability, how is that going to work in the future? I think that's big for Rainfocus. I think we're more the front end of that. But just what are the things we're doing to collect data to understand attendees and how does that extend into the other systems that are being used inside these organizations? How can agents talk to agents to really complete a picture that's been near impossible to understand in the past?

B (7:54)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I definitely want to get to more, more the future things, but first I want to talk a little bit more about what you just touched on, which is the data side of this too, because that's another thing. I mean, any marketer, there's customers moving between channels and all of that, but events have some unique characteristics to them and some unique challenges in data and tracking and all that. So beyond simply gathering the data, you know, how can agentic AI help marketers analyze and interpret event data, knowing that again, it has some unique challenges with it.

C (8:33)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think this is one of the things we get most excited about is that, you know, AI and the ability to consume and process like large amount of data and make it understandable.

D (8:44)

Right.

C (8:44)

And, and I think that holds true with event marketers. Whether you're thinking about what's going on inside this individual event, how am I understanding the data to improve the event, to improve the experience, to improve my program? Like all those things, I think we have tools that we've come out with and that we're improving around agentic capability on just running reports, surfacing insights, leading you down the path to find the right things that are hidden in that data.

D (9:11)

Right.

C (9:12)

I think there's also the capability within this agentic world where I can understand more the impact of the, this person's interest and how does that turn into intent and how does that show me how the people that are coming to my events are progressing? You know, outside of that event, inside of my organization. Right. So all those things are areas that we are doing and working on pretty heavily and see some exciting things there around the data.

B (9:37)

Yeah, yeah. And I know you mentioned a few examples there. But you know, for those marketers that they may be used to kind of their, their go to tool set or whatever of metrics and how they measure things, like what, what should they be thinking about knowing that Agentic may unlock some things that just maybe weren't possible or just weren't accessible before? Like what, what kind of things should they be thinking about measuring?

C (10:02)

Yeah, I think probably the big thing and there's some principle based things here, even though the technology is changing.

D (10:08)

Right.

C (10:08)

And I think for as long as Rainfocus has been in business and we've been focusing on the data, we always just talk with customers to understand and articulate what are the outcomes that you're going for with, you know, your event.

D (10:21)

Right.

C (10:22)

What's, what's your business hoping for? Why are they investing and spending money on these events? Like, let's start at the, at the basic questions, you know, of why things are happening.

D (10:30)

Right.

C (10:31)

I don't think that changes. And I, I think you can get into this fallacy sometimes, like, oh, sweet. This new technology is going to not only give me the right answers, it's going to tell me the right question to ask and.

B (10:42)

Right.

C (10:43)

I think that those, those models and those tools have a harder time with that.

D (10:46)

Right.

C (10:46)

So you still need to hold true to some of these basic principles of just like, why am I running this event? What am I hoping to get out of it? And articulate your questions. But, you know, the answers can come easier. That's, that's just a reality. And I think for some marketers, they've been burned a little bit. Like they've done the work to ask the question and they do the work to work in the data. And then it's just overwhelming and I don't quite get there and I spend a lot of time and I think, you know, maybe forget a little bit of the past, you know, hold true to some of those principles of how you get to the right answers and know that, you know, this new technology is going to help you get there a lot quicker and a lot more efficiently than maybe anything in the past could have.

B (11:24)

Yeah, I mean, I love that because I do think I've seen what you just said, which is we might have great ideas in the Beginning, but then, you know, we get these dashboards thrown in front of us or we just kind of bang our head against the wall and just aren't able to get the things that we want. And so we start become. We. We start becoming biased of, okay, well, if it's in front of me, it must be important, right? Versus to me, you know, some of the unlocks here with being able to tie data better together and to be able to do some things that again, were either not feasible or just way too complicated. Now lets us really do what you're saying, which is, let's start with the basic. We should have done that anyway, you know, but let's start at the basics and really ask the fundamental questions and then use agentic AI, whatever, whatever the technology is to help us solve that. I think that's an amazing opportunity to kind of take that step back. Right?

C (12:20)

Yep. Yeah, exactly. And it's, I think way more than not, there's a little bit of a wall there to just get over to be like, okay, yeah, I'm, I'm on board that this can do something different than what I've done in the past, you know, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it's an awesome opportunity.

B (12:34)

So, yeah, so going to some of the things, looking down the pike, I mean, certainly there's a lot of exciting things today to be, to be able to do. But as you see marketers and event marketers adopting AI, you know, where. What are some of the challenges or what are some of the questions that they should be asking before they, before they start down that path that, you know, so to, to turn a challenge into an opportunity and things like that.

C (13:05)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, I think, you know, if we just pick up a thread from our last topic there, you know, it's. You have to be able to let go of how you've thought about things in the past, you know, even from a solution standpoint.

D (13:17)

Right.

C (13:17)

I think that's one of the biggest challenges we're all facing. You know, I face it with my team and building the software. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, that's really cool, that new agentic thing. But I have this design, I have this plan. You know, I've been talking to customers about this. I'm going to move forward. Even though there might be a totally different way to solve that problem, I think that's probably the number one challenge I see out there is just rewiring a little bit to the possibilities. I've been really surprised at some of the solutions I've seen come out not just by us, but by others. You know, the things that we're able to do with agentic and AI technology. And I think just being open to that and you know, you sometimes have to take a step back to take a step forward because initially it can be a little slow, like, okay, I'm interacting with this thing. You know, it looks like it could be, but there's some work here and you got to get over that hump. But I think these technologies can take us a lot further than what technologies could in the past. And that's a, that's just a challenge that, you know, marketers need to get over. I think one example to think about is you see this trend of moving from campaigns to customer journey based thinking.

D (14:22)

Right.

C (14:22)

And I think that was really hard in the past because the whole journey spanned, you know, four systems and different interaction points. And tying that together was tough. I mean there were a lot of attempts, but it was a hard thing. Especially in these enterprise companies. The systems are deep, the data is rich. Like it's hard. You know, AI and agents operating in these different systems, like you can see it start to come together that like I can be customer journey based. I can think about all these touch points lighting up, you know, and understand where this person's been and the action they should take next. And that's just one example where like I'm sure people have attempted that, they've probably gotten close, but AI and agentic AI specifically is really going to unlock that capability of understanding that customer through the whole journey, progressing them, you know, so that's a, that's an exciting thing, but it's a challenge to get over the mental block that like, can that actually be done?

D (15:13)

Right?

B (15:15)

Yeah. And also to what we were saying earlier, which is we get used to something and you do kind of have to take a step back and rethink. And as amazing as what was built prior may be, AI in this case, you know, it could be, you know, five years from now, it may be something else. But like right now, you know, AI and agentic, like it does require a different way of thinking about the same, same things. In, in some, not in all cases maybe, but like in, in many cases. But once you, once it kind of clicks like I've, I've found, you know, some people take to things quicker than others or just think in different ways or whatever. But you know, once it clicks then all of a sudden they have a million ideas and they, they, you know, so I do think it, it takes a Little bit of. Some people are just may just gravitate towards playing with the new shiny toys and other people are a little more comfortable with the way things were. And you know, it takes all kinds, right? But, but yeah, it's interesting days, but I think it does take, you know, some of those early adopters to kind of mentor and coach some of the others and bring everybody up to speed.

C (16:26)

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. And just, you know, a quick example, you know, with us when we're thinking about the attendee agent, like, we obviously have a lot of plans around the attendee experience and you know, nice design, all this kind of stuff, right? And like, when we took a step back and just said, well, let's talk about the problems we were trying to solve and the outcomes we were trying to help these attendees reach, and you line those up and then you think about the solutions in a whole new context and you're like, oh, yeah, that all those problems line up really nicely to this attendee agent experience. And all these things I was thinking about, you know, maybe don't apply, but, you know, it's hard to let go of that, like you said. But I think if you go through just again, some patterns that are tried and true, right? Like take that step back, understand why you're doing it, define that problem or outcome, and then line up the solution, you, you know, the light bulb can really go on. You know, if you're one of those people that are going to wait and see, you know, how it goes with other people, I think that's fine. But, you know, pay attention to it, you know, see how they're progressing and see what inspiration you can get from that.

B (17:25)

Yeah, well, and also I found even taking the word or the phrase whatever, AI out of the question and asking the question that you asked, which is what's going to make the customer happier? Like, I know and you know, probably AI is going to be involved in it to some degree, maybe to a huge degree. But taking taking that thing out of the equation in the question sometimes lets people think a little more freely and think about actual problems and, and things so that you can get to a solution. And again, if AI and agentic and all that is is part of the solution, then great. It again, it probably is, but it frees people up from like thinking about, oh, well, I use chat GPT for this thing. Like, no, no, no, that's not what we're really talking about. We're talking about something else.

C (18:13)

Yeah, yeah, you know, that's a really good point. That I think we should call out here, you know, as people are, because I, I, I, for my teams, for myself and for everyone who's listening here. I do think it's important to be like it, it doesn't have to be AI. I think with any new technology you just want to broaden your horizons a little bit and make sure you're paying attention to possibilities. But it's, it's totally possible that you rethink that a bit and the solution you already had in mind is right, or a solution that's not necessarily AI driven could be the right, right thing for that customer. I think that's a great point, Greg. As you think through this stuff, right. Don't swing too hard one way or the other.

B (18:47)

Right, Right. It's got, it's got to be really, it's got to really solve the problem. And again, I know the, I know the power of, of the technology. Definitely. It's, you know, I think it can solve so much. And maybe along those lines, you know, what is as, as you're thinking about the future. You know, what, what's, what's your vision for event marketing in this age of, of agentic AI? I mean, agentic is not going anywhere. Like it's, you know, it's already proved its usefulness and, and just how much it can do. What are some of the exciting possibilities that, that you see here?

C (19:22)

Yeah, yeah. I think the big thing for me just is this theme of accelerating people.

D (19:30)

Right.

C (19:31)

You're accelerating the experience people can have, they can get more out of the event. You're accelerating our understanding of the behaviors and things that are going on in the event, being a team's ability to run events that are unique and really hit the mark, you know, and so, and then, and then really the crux of all that is, okay, all this data is being collected and we can really accelerate the connection point between systems. Right. And that's, I think in each of these areas there's some AI or agentic capability that's going to play into it. There's maybe other technologies, but I get really excited about the future and ability for us to bring people together, you know, through these, these tools, these events. I think it's so important to, to how we live and how we work.

D (20:14)

Right.

C (20:15)

And the, the thing that we see that really is different from the past is how we connect to other systems that are inside an organization. From an agent standpoint, you know, that's, I, I don't think going away. I think it actually is a technology that finally Allows you to solve that problem in a holistic way to understand that customer fully. We play a part in that, but it's a bigger picture and the better we can be at. My agent does this thing and it connects to this one and this one, and you have this multi agent. You know, you hear this term multi agent, right? An interoperability. I think that's where things are going and it's moving from experimentation into a results. You know, I think the next year, year and a half, we'll see how it goes. But that's, you know, that's where we get excited. You know, it's the problem we set out to solve when we started. And it's exciting to see technology come along that really can make that possible. You know, it solves some, some significant things for our customers. It helps people who are going to attendees, you know, have a better experience and, and really enjoy and, and get what they're hoping for out of these events.

B (21:19)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Definitely. Definitely exciting stuff.

C (21:22)

Yeah.

B (21:22)

Well, Travis, thank you so much for joining today. Really appreciate your insights. One last question for you. I like to ask everybody, what do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

D (21:34)

Okay.

C (21:35)

Yeah, good question. And you know, before I answer, just want to say thanks for having me on. It's great talking to you today.

B (21:40)

Yeah, of course.

C (21:41)

Really enjoyed it. What do I do? I'm a creature of habit, Greg. So I'm like a morning routine person. My productive time is early, before, you know, around when the sun comes up, when it's. When it's summertime. And I like to have some thinking time. I like to get outdoors. And so I have a regular schedule of listening, reading, and then thinking about those things that really help me stay agile, stay on top of things, stay open to new ideas and what other people are doing. And for me, that works well. I have to dedicate some time when it's quiet, when there's not a million things going on during the day, or when I've worn down a little bit. So that's what works for me. Start early, do that first, and then let other things fall around it. And that's really helped.

B (22:26)

Yeah. Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Travis Cushing, Chief Product Officer at Rainfocus, for joining the show. You can learn more about Travis and Rainfocus by following the links in the show notes.

A (22:38)

Thanks again for listening to the B2B Agility podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rate rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at www.b2bagility.com. That's B2B agility.com while you're there, check out my series of best selling Agile brand guides covering a wide variety of marketing technology topics. Or you can search for Greg Kilstrom on Amazon. Until next time, stay focused and stay agile. The Agile brand.