#64: Successful AI adoption requires human ingenuity, with Nickole Brown, Cella by Randstad Digital

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: B2B Agility with Greg Kihlström™: MarTech, E-Commerce, & Customer Success
Episode: #64 - Successful AI Adoption Requires Human Ingenuity
Guest: Nicole Brown, Senior Consultant at Cella by Randstad Digital
Date: October 7, 2025

This episode explores the evolving landscape of AI adoption in B2B marketing, focusing on the essential role of human creativity, leadership, and strategy. Host Greg Kihlström and guest Nicole Brown break down insights from the 2025 Cella Intelligence Report, highlighting why human ingenuity and organizational culture are still critical, even as AI capabilities accelerate. The conversation tackles barriers to adoption, the trust gap in AI outputs, the evolution of roles and skills, challenges around data and measurement, and the future operation of in-house creative teams.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current State of AI in Marketing

Timestamps: 02:10 – 04:12

• Adoption is Growing, but Expertise is Rare:
  The Cella Intelligence Report reveals only 5% of creative professionals feel highly proficient with AI.
• Leadership’s Role:
  Nicole emphasizes that leaders must define not just the "what," but also the "how" of AI adoption—setting clear strategies, standards, and expectations.

  “...from our leaders defining what good is. So really what is that AI or innovation strategy for our organization?” – Nicole Brown (02:36)

• Skills & Bandwidth Challenges:
  48% of teams prioritize upskilling current staff over hiring external AI talent due to bandwidth, burnout, and competitive hiring market.
• Change Fatigue:
  Teams are stretched thin and experiencing change fatigue, making AI training hard to prioritize despite its importance.

2. Trust, Accountability, and the Limits of AI

Timestamps: 04:12 – 06:50

• Greater Trust in AI for Ideation than Research:
  AI is valued for brainstorming and rapid idea generation, where creative teams can comfortably “test” but always add human curation.
• Human-AI Collaboration Workflow:
  • Human creates the brief
  • AI generates ideas
  • Human curates and improves
• Lingering Skepticism in Research:
  AI is less trusted for research and insights because it can't be held accountable—humans remain responsible.

  “Will AI ever be accountable? No, it will not. We will be accountable.” – Nicole Brown (05:30)

• Building Trust in AI:
  Trust requires the right tools, training, SME validation, and sometimes even running parallel projects to benchmark AI performance.

3. The Evolving Partnership: Human Ingenuity vs. AI Automation

Timestamps: 06:50 – 09:55

• AI as a "Co-pilot":
  AI augments human creativity but doesn't replace the leadership, accountability, cultural sensitivity, or strategic vision required in creative roles.
• Human Value Adds:
  Inputs, leadership, curation, communication, connection, and accountability will always require a human touch.

  “...cultural sensitivity and again, you know, accountability, I mean, it really is gonna always come back to that. If it won't be accountable, then we will.” – Nicole Brown (08:53)

4. Emerging Roles & Skills in an AI-powered Landscape

Timestamps: 09:55 – 11:44

• Evolution Over Elimination:
  AI isn’t necessarily replacing jobs but morphing roles—expect more strategic and broad channel oversight.
• Rise of Skills-based Organizations:
  Less focus on rigid job titles, more on adaptable skill sets and soft skills like communication and leadership (often undervalued but now critical).
• AI Enables Elevation:
  AI allows professionals to shed non-value-added work, shifting towards strategy and creativity.

  “I don't see AI doing anything in my job that I don't really want to do anyway.” – Nicole Brown (11:22)

5. Persistent Data & Measurement Challenges

Timestamps: 11:44 – 14:25

• Barriers to Data-Driven Culture:
  Lack of in-house analytics expertise and difficulty integrating data remain top hurdles for marketing teams.
• Silos and Integration Problems:
  Data often stuck within teams, not connected to broader company strategy—critical for maximizing AI’s potential.

  “Your data wants to flow and connect and it doesn't want to be introverted to your team.” – Nicole Brown (14:09)

6. Importance of Feedback Loops & Continuous Improvement

Timestamps: 14:25 – 17:03

• Retrospectives are Lacking:
  Only 28% of respondents hold regular project retrospectives, missing chances for iterative improvement.
• Advocacy for Continuous Improvement:
  Nicole champions retrospectives for fueling innovation and cross-functional collaboration. Even small changes compound into major impact over time.

  “Continuous improvement is what will save you… Do not ever discount the power of small changes.” – Nicole Brown (16:28)

7. Impact of AI on In-House Agency Models

Timestamps: 17:03 – 19:49

• Strategic vs. Execution Focus:
  Teams must decide whether to focus on high-value strategy/brand stewardship, or execution (where AI can automate low-value tasks).
• External Agencies & Competition:
  AI may make external agencies more nimble and competitive than cumbersome internal teams unless in-house models adapt quickly.
• Future-proofing the Team:
  Leaders must anticipate change and structure teams for agility, not just present-day needs.

8. Biggest Opportunities and Pitfalls in Preparing for the AI Future

Timestamps: 19:49 – 21:52

• Avoiding Sameness:
  AI-driven content risks bland uniformity—winning teams use AI to elevate creativity, not just productivity.
• Operational Rigor is Essential:
  Laying the groundwork in data, processes, and prioritization is key—many teams ask for AI but lack required foundations.

  “My biggest concern for everyone...is do these teams have the operational rigor in place to set up these tools, to implement them, to change?” – Nicole Brown (20:56)

9. Final Thoughts: Practicing Agility & Staying Ahead

Timestamps: 22:59 – 24:41

• Always Adapt and Look Outside Your Industry:
  Nicole suggests that staying agile means borrowing best practices from other verticals and dedicating time for experimentation—even when it’s uncomfortable.

  “There is some level of just you got to get in there and get your hands dirty and really try to figure it out.” – Nicole Brown (24:05)

• Free Up Time for What Matters:
  Automate non-value work; focus on creativity, strategy, improvement.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI Accountability:
  "Will AI ever be accountable? No, it will not. We will be accountable."
  – Nicole Brown, 05:30

• On Human vs AI Value in Creativity:
  "Cultural sensitivity and again, you know, accountability, I mean, it really is gonna always come back to that. If it won't be accountable, then we will."
  – Nicole Brown, 08:53

• On Role Evolution:
  "I don't see AI doing anything in my job that I don't really want to do anyways."
  – Nicole Brown, 11:22

• On Continuous Improvement:
  "Continuous improvement is what will save you... Do not ever discount the power of small changes."
  – Nicole Brown, 16:28

• On Data Siloes:
  "Your data wants to flow and connect and it doesn't want to be introverted to your team."
  – Nicole Brown, 14:09

• On Operational Foundations for AI:
  "Do these teams have the operational rigor in place to set up these tools, to implement them, to change?"
  – Nicole Brown, 20:56

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Useful Timestamps for Key Segments

• AI Adoption & Organizational Barriers: 02:10 – 04:12
• Trust and Accountability in AI Use: 04:12 – 06:50
• The Human-AI Partnership: 06:50 – 09:55
• Evolving Roles & Essential Skills: 09:55 – 11:44
• Data, KPIs & Measurement Difficulties: 11:44 – 14:25
• Feedback Loops & Project Retrospectives: 14:25 – 17:03
• AI’s Impact on In-House Agency Models: 17:03 – 19:49
• Preparing for the Future—Opportunities & Pitfalls: 19:49 – 21:52
• Remaining Agile & Final Advice: 22:59 – 24:41

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Summary Takeaways

• Human leadership and strategic thinking remain indispensable, even as AI reshapes B2B marketing.
• Trust in AI’s creative potential is growing, but skepticism remains for research, insights, and accountability.
• AI will elevate roles—enabling a shift from tactical execution toward higher-value and more strategic functions.
• Continuous feedback, cross-team data flow, and small, steady improvements are the foundation for sustained success.
• Preparing now—by building operational rigor and focusing on foundational data and processes—sets teams up to leverage AI’s full potential.
• Agility means experimenting, learning from other industries, and always making space for improvement and iteration.

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Transcript

[Greg Kilstrom]

The agile brand.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Welcome to the B2B Agility Podcast where we look at the factors that drive success in B2B marketing, with a focus on the people, processes, data and platforms that make B2B brands stand out and thrive in a competitive marketplace. I'm your host, Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, marketing operations and CX, best selling author and speaker. Now let's get on to the show.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Is the hype around AI and marketing finally starting to match reality or are we still just scratching the surface of its true potential? Agility requires a willingness to experiment with new technologies like AI, but it also demands a deep understanding of your customer and the ability to adapt your strategies based on data and insights. It also requires strong leadership that can champion the changes needed to achieve success with AI. Cella recently released its 2025 intelligence report, finding that while AI adoption is gaining momentum, human ingenuity still leads the way. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Nicole Brown, senior consultant at Cella. Nicole, welcome to the show.

[Nicole Brown]

Hi Greg, thanks for having me.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, looking forward to talking about this topic with you. Before we dive in though, why don't you give a little background on yourself and your role at sala.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Sure.

[Nicole Brown]

Thanks, Greg. I have been at Cella for three and a half years as a senior consultant and we work with marketing and creative in house teams really looking to, I guess the simplest way to explain it is increase their operational maturity on some level. So we're really looking at strategy people, process data and technology as you probably would expect and really looking to either solve a problem or in general, just make sure we're laying that foundation, that strong foundation. Prior to my time Sala, I spent just shy of eight years in global creative operations roles at Amazon and then, you know, back in the day started as a photo producer client facing a commercial photography studio. So very excited to have this conversation.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, let's start. We're going to talk about a few things today, but let's, let's start by talking about the current state of AI and marketing and the report that I mentioned at the top of the show. The Cella Intelligence Report found that only 5% of creative professionals consider themselves highly proficient in using AI. What's holding back wider adoption and deeper expertise and how can organizations overcome these hurdles?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, you kind of hit on this in your intro, right? This, this need for leadership to really champion what needs to be happening across their organizations. You know, it's not one thing, obviously it's multiple things. But I think from our leaders defining what good is. So really what is that AI or innovation strategy for our organization? And then what are those expectations from a skill matrix? Right. So if you're in a specific role, what does good look like in that role? When it comes to defining innovation or strategy, I think that's really critical. I think that the how. Defining the how. So there is a bit of a crisis, if you will, in marketing of the bandwidth and the burnout on the teams.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So I think we saw in our intelligence report that 48% of teams are looking to upskill their current talent in 2024. It was quite the opposite. They were looking to hire in that talent. But we know that these roles that are trained already in AI1, they become very competitive, they are very time consuming to find if you even are competitive enough to attract them. How are we going to do that when our teams are already stretched so thin and we already have change fatigue.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

And all of these type of things, the very things that will save us, we're kind of not able to tap into very concerning.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So I think how, how will we go about giving these teams the bandwidth to get that AI education or skilling? And then of course, you know, just general skepticism around quality.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

Which I think will come and go. But, you know, the real concerns.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. So the report also highlights a gap between AI's use for ideation and research. Why do you think there's more trust in AI for brainstorming than for gathering insights? And how can companies, you know, kind of close that gap, but build confidence in AI's research capabilities?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, I, I think that's such a good question. I, I want to talk a little bit about what I think that creative teams are doing really well. That might be why they're able to embrace the use of, of AI for this ide. I think they are. It is very clear that a space is being set to test. I don't want to use the word play because it's work.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

It's business, but where they're able to test the tools and get comfortable with them. I think creatives are embracing this and making this happen. I also think they're really good of defining when the human comes in, when the AI comes in and when the human comes back in.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So maybe the human is creating the brief, the AI is rapid idea generation, and then the human is coming back in for that curation and improvement.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So I think, think they're Doing a really good job of that. I think why that's not translating maybe to research and places where we would really love to be using these tools and what they were really born to do.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

Is that word trust also comes with accountability. Will AI ever be accountable? No, it will not.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

We will be accountable. So in order for us when we talk about research, we have to have a lot of trust. And how do we get that trust? By subject matter experts validating what they're seeing. So, so many people are looking for AI to improve productivity in the marketing space, but is it really going to? Once somebody has to validate, it's still an incredibly powerful tool in that space, but it can't be left to its own devices and it's not in the creative space either.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

But I think just, you know, first off, we're not going to have trust if we don't have the right tools to allow us to do this research. Right. So one, do we have the right tools and training? Do we have a subject matter expert to validate? Do we need to do things like run parallel projects?

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

Nobody ever wants to do that. It's so it's, you know, oh my gosh, we don't have enough resources to do what's on our plate. And you want to run parallel project? Well, yeah, we need a baseline. How much can we trust this? So I think there are things we can do. I think with Agentix tools we can train them on a curated, vetted group of documents or resources that are relevant and trusted in our industries that will help with that. But, but yeah, I mean, without that accountability piece, what do we have?

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right, right. Yeah. And I think that's part of building that trust. And you're right there. AI in the sense that humans think of it will never be accountable in that way. Building the trust. I think there's, there's something to say. You know, many, a lot of people are touting AI as a co pilot, for instance, and you know this, I think there's a train of thought here where, you know, again, it's more of a partnership or an augmentation or something like that. You know, in, in terms of AI being a co pilot, what specific roles do you see humans playing that AI can't replicate in the creative process? And how do you view this evolving partnership?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, I mean, it's a good question and I guess we're all going to see as we live into it, but I think, you know, things like inputs, I mean, at the end of the day, AI needs to Be fed or trained or whatever the case may be. But you know, a person has to kind of give it those, those guardrails. Certainly. I think, you know, things like leadership, you know, I talked a little bit about curation, communication, connection, you know, all those type of things, which quite frankly is the role that we as humans want to take. Anyways, we get bogged down, right? So I think, you know, we're all just so excited for AI to really take those non value add. Again, non value add doesn't mean they don't need to be done. It means my specific role doesn't need to do that. There's no value in my skill set doing that. So I think, you know, allowing that space for that connection, the communication, the leadership, the strategy, I mean, certainly AI is going to become quite the partner as anybody who's going to be in a strategic role. Right. Like it's going to become an invaluable partner. But there are still those strategic pieces. Like, I'm sure this happens, Greg, with you all the time. I put something into ChatGPT or Gemini and it tells me how wonderful my response is. And then I go think about it and I add three things to it and it's like, oh no, now it's wonderful. And I'm like, well, where were those three things before when it was wonderful? So we know we still have to, right, give it a lot of the juice, if you will, to get that squeeze. But you know, things like cultural sensitivity and again, you know, accountability, I mean, it really is gonna always come back to that. If it won't be accountable, then we will.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I think as you've mentioned and as many are talking, there's a lot of parts of roles that AI is playing already and will continue to play and probably grow in a number of areas. This leads to people talking about AI replacing jobs and roles within, like entire jobs and entire roles within and companies, you know, from, from your research. What are some of the emerging roles and skill sets that are going to be essential for humans to not just keep their jobs, but to actually thrive in this new landscape?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, well, I think, you know, the, the skills that are going to be necessary is what does that partnership look like? What does an efficient, efficient and effective partnership with AI look like? But again, I, I come back, you know, the big word now is strategy. Like we are expecting AI to aid us to be far more strategic than we've ever had a chance to be.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

And so really maybe before we saw channel specialists, maybe there aren't specific channel specialists, but more somebody who overlooks all the channels because they need to see the big picture of everything and because the data is there and readily available that they now have the opportunity to do this. So I do think roles will shift 100%. I do think functions will shift. Does this also get us more to a skills based organization rather than job titles? Maybe. You know, that's still such a big transformation in the way we think. But I think, you know, there's other things at play here as well. Like the World Economics Forum some years back identified a skillset gap with the emerging innovations and technologies. But they very clearly said it's not just in the technologies, these are soft skills as well. And I don't like that term. Nobody likes it because these are very real skills, but things like communication and advanced leadership skills.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So I just think it's really an evolution. Certainly our jobs are all going to change and probably for the better because I don't see AI doing anything in my job that I don't really want to do anyways.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So. Or making me so much better, giving me so much more information than I've ever had to work with. So I think it's, it's less about jobs going away certainly will change the way we probably structure teams, especially like in house agency teams. But I feel like it's less about things going away. I think it's more about a morphing, if you will, into something new.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. And it's, it's elevating a lot of roles from maybe a combination of tactical and strategic to more strategic and ideally purely strategic, you know, at some point. And yet strategy also, as you were saying earlier, requires that we have a really good understanding of setting goals, setting KPIs, even, you know, the, the report also mentions there's challenges not only with defining KPIs but also with data fluency. And you know, I think that's still, I think AI will do a lot with data for us. But still understanding data and, and certainly defining KPIs is, is, is going to be important in a, in a strategic role for those companies investing in AI and Martech, all of these things. Why are these still problematic? You know, we've, we've been talking about data driven decision making and all this for years, of course. What, you know, why, why do these problems still exist and what practical steps can marketing leaders take to improve data literacy?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, that's such a great question. And you know, everyone who knows me knows that I talk about data all the time. But the reason I talk about data all the time is because we, you know, it's just been very clear this point is coming where you will not be able to use these fabulous tools if we don't have the right inputs to actually feed into these tools. So our reports show that a lack of in house expertise is the number one challenge in implementing creative analytics. So again that upskilling of talent, are our teams able to focus on what they need to. The number two challenge was integrating data. So we still see that as problematic. Tracking cross channel performance, identifying the right KPIs. So really what this boils down to, aside from the skillset issue is data, data being siloed. So let's just say I'm an in house creative team and we have our data and we understand it, but if, if it's not connected to the larger marketing organizations, and this is very true of channel specific. Have we looked across marketing and said this is what matters to our larger strategic goals. This is what we're looking at and why this is what it means so that somebody actually can be connecting it. Like you know, your, your data wants to flow and connect and it doesn't want to be introverted to your team.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So I think aside from the very real problems we are investing, but there are still challenges integrating, et cetera. I think even like where we can start is making sure our data is not siloed from even defining what it means and what we look at and why we.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, completely agree. And I think another thing that I know, you know, I talk about quite frequently, your report highlights this as well. Is this idea of the feedback loop too being so not only, you know, sending data from one place to another, team to another, but also, you know, according to the report, 28, only 28% of respondents conduct regular project retrospectives. So, you know, definitely a key part of learning and growing and everything. What are some, what's some advice or some strategies to incorporate this practice of retrospectives more effectively so that these teams are learning from their, you know, successes as well as failures.

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, I, you know, I'm always surprised even though it's been the same for a number of years about retrospectives. I'm always surprised because we've done so much work and now we drop the ball when it matters.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So I think, you know, these retrospectives should have a deep purpose in this creative space. They're going to fuel innovation, they're going to refine execution and probably most importantly, they are going to strengthen cross, cross Functional collaboration and understanding, breaking down those silos. Right. This is our chance to get in a room and talk about what worked, what did it. But don't bother doing that if you are not looking at outcomes. So this is continuous improvement. This is the definition of advocacy agile. Right. What worked, what didn't, what are we going to monitor? What do we already know we have to improve, what's our path and who's accountable and come back around. Right. It will never be seen as a priority if something is not coming from it. So, you know, I'm a big fan of continuous improvement. I think every marketing team, I think every team should have a continuous improvement project. It's that important. But this is really where we see that the teams aren't having that. And when you're challenged to do less is more. Continuous improvement is what will save you.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

I mean those big changes are always going to happen. But do not ever discount the power of small changes. Especially when we look at their impact one year, three year, five years.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

And just the power of those closest to the process being the ones to fix the process.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

That is exactly how it should be. So I think, you know, the project retrospective, if you're not regularly having them, you have to take a really hard look at yourself and really just educate yourself on what it requires. Because for me it's a not, it's not a nice to have, it's not optional, it is the work.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, completely agree. I love, love, love hearing somebody say that stuff. So that's. No, definitely agree. So I want to talk a little bit for our last topic I want to talk about is creative operations and just, you know, I've been in, in the business long enough to see, you know, there's trends that, that go over time and certainly there's a move towards in house agency models. And so you know that's, that's continues to grow. I think the research supports that as well. How does AI impact the structure and operation of these in house teams? And you know what, what are some of the key considerations for leaders that are either, you know, thinking about making the transition midway through or already there, but just trying to be as successful as possible?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, that's, I mean that's a great question. Obviously we get that a lot right now is what should we be now and what should we be concern considering? And this kind of comes back to that first answer I gave around leadership really defining what their position is on AI and innovation. I of course personally think it should be helping our people. Right. It should Be empowering our people to do things, being the solution to the problem. But you know, rather than just implement AI for the sake of saying we did it and we have it. But I, I do think, you know, we have to really think about, you know, you have a team of X size headcount is difficult to get. Are teams better served to be strategic brand creative stewards or, or should they actually be executing tier 2 and tier 3 work? We're also expecting to see really powerful movement in our external vendors whose entire focus is that and applying AI to that.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

Rather than these larger corporations who marketing is a piece of it, the in house creative team and even smaller piece. Will that make these external agencies more competitive? We would expect to see so right from, from pricing, et cetera, but also just how rapidly things are changing. If you've set up this huge social team is social even the flavor now.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

And what do we do with these folks? So how do you set up these teams to really be future proofed for all the changes we're going to see? And by the way, AI is going to be bringing, you know, an even greater layer of change than we've ever seen before. So how can our teams be nimble and are they better suited for that long term strategy, brand versus tier three production, et cetera. So I do think, you know, there's not one clean answer. It really depends on your organization, your goals, what you are working with now. But these are all the things we have to consider and really I think the name of the game there is future proofing your team.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

Because we know change is coming. Yeah, it's here, it's coming, it's never stopping.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right? Change is the only constant, right?

[Nicole Brown]

Exactly.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. And I guess just to build on that, what are you seeing? Certainly you're seeing a lot of great organizations and how they're structuring things and how they're anticipating and certainly to build on what you were just saying, what are some of the biggest opportunities or maybe even just pitfalls that leaders should be aware of as they're preparing for the future of marketing?

[Nicole Brown]

I think, I guess, I guess we're all worried about the same thing, right? Sameness. A sea of just content that we're getting so bored of this, et cetera. But I think we're focused, at least our report tells us we're focused on thinking about AI for productivity. That might not be terribly exciting, but it does feel right for where we are because if we can remove some of that non value add work, then we can let Our teams focus on more creative, strategic innovation.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So that's where we want them. So I do think, even though it might not be the most exciting use of AI, I do think it's the right move for most people to be thinking about that right now. My biggest concern for everyone, and quite frankly, what we see a lot of, is do these teams have the operational rigor in place to set up these tools, to implement them, to change? Do they have the data? Do they have, you know, just. Do you have a prioritization strategy? You know, all of these pieces of information that you need to feed those tools so they can help you are. And we are seeing a lot of folks that really recognize, oh, now is the time. We have to. Or maybe last year or two years ago was the time. But regardless, they're really taking that seriously. They are starting to feel the loss of what, how they cannot move forward with these tools. So a lot of interest. Tell us how to use these tools. Oh, wait, we have to lay that foundation.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, to, to your first point about productivity, you know, I would just say in my own experience as, as a consultant and even in running this podcast and, and automating a lot of things, it's. It's one thing to, you know, there's some people that just, they have, they have big ideas and they're able to see, you know, three steps down the road and, you know, those. I think all of us can consider us, ourselves, strategists and some, to some degree, I think a lot of us at the same time, it's hard to see around some corners. Right. So getting the productivity stuff down unburdens you of whatever that was, you know, exactly. What, you know, what you're saying here is like, it unburdens you of the stuff that's keeping you from thinking bigger and thinking broader, or in some cases, for those less familiar with the stuff that don't play with it all day long to even see the potential in a small capacity so that they can build on it. So, you know, I think it's all, I guess, to make it back to continuous improvement. Right? It's all, it's all one step building on another, right?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Well, Nicole, thanks so much for joining today. Really appreciate you sharing your insights. One last question for you. I like to ask everybody, what do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Nicole Brown]

Yeah, well, you know, you know, being a consultant, you are very agile. You're asked to work with, you know, there is no, you know, best just do best in class. It's best in class isn't right for most everybody.

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right.

[Nicole Brown]

So what's going to be right for you? And, and so I think as a consultant you just naturally bring that agile mindset because you know, you're, you're taking what you have and seeing how you can, can work with it. But I think so much of it too is just like, like don't get stuck in your industry because the one thing, the intelligence report we see is that year over year, you know, people are struggling to get out of certain hole. So I like to look at what other industries are doing right and see like where are they having success and, and could that be applied?

[Interviewer / Greg's Voice]

Right?

[Nicole Brown]

Thinking about using six Sigma in the creative space maybe isn't what everybody's thinking about, but it works really well. And, and, and we've done it and it works great. So I think just kind of seeing what other people, how they're having success and how it work can be really powerful. But I just think also it's just dedicating that time to it, which is so hard for all of us. Like, I have to try this new tool. I didn't like it and then five people tell me they love it. I'm like, oh, it's a me issue now I have to go back and try it again. You know, so it, I mean there is some level of just you got to get in there and get your hands dirty and, and really try to figure it out. Yeah, that, I mean that would be an obviously, you know, anything that isn't value add, try to get it off your plate and use these tools, you know, but we're all just trying to figure it out, me included. So if you have tips for me, let me know.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. Love it, love it. Well, again I'd like to thank Nicole Brown, senior consultant at Cella, for joining the show. You can learn more about Nicole and Cella by following the links in the show notes. You can also get a copy of the Cella Intelligence Report.

[Nicole Brown]

Thanks for having me, Greg.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, thank you so much.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Thanks again for listening to the B2B Agility podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at www.b2b agility.com. that's b2b agility.com. while you're there, check out my series of best selling agile brand guides covering a wide variety of marketing technology topics topics. Or you can search for Greg Kilstrom on Amazon. Until next time, stay focused and stay agile.

[Greg Kilstrom]

The agile brand.