Boundaries, Break Ups, and Comebacks with Law Roach

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Boundaries, Break Ups, and Comebacks with Law Roach"

Released on July 15, 2025

Introduction: Welcoming Law Roach

In this engaging episode of "Baby, This is Keke Palmer," host Keke Palmer sits down with the renowned stylist and image architect, Law Roach. Celebrated for his work with high-profile celebrities like Celine Dion, Ariana Grande, Zendaya, and Law himself being named Top Stylist of the Year by the Hollywood Reporter, Law brings a wealth of experience and insight into the world of fashion and personal branding.

Met Gala Moments and Fashion Influences

The conversation kicks off with a discussion about the recent Met Gala, where both Keke and Law admired Zendaya's stunning look. Law shares an amusing anecdote about his own experience at the gala:

Law Roach [02:13]: "I had drank a whole bottle of champagne... I was talking to Zendaya the entire ride... I was like, why is she down there? ... Oh, you know us, like, you gonna get a real natural gut reaction."

Law elaborates on his admiration for Zendaya's ability to embody her style authentically, highlighting the mutual respect between them and fellow stylist Carla Welch. He emphasizes that this year's Met Gala focused more on paying homage to the theme rather than showcasing the most extravagant gowns.

The Androgynous Influence and Personal Style

Keke transitions the conversation to Law's distinctive hair and style, influenced by Cher and the early 2000s New York club scene:

Law Roach [04:33]: "I feel like I blur those lines sometimes. And it's about... That's why I feel comfortable in that."

Law explains how his inspiration from Andre J., a social and party promoter stylist, helped him develop an androgynous aesthetic that challenges traditional gender norms in fashion.

Fashion as Storytelling and Image Architecture

Delving deeper into his philosophy, Law discusses how fashion serves as a powerful tool for storytelling. He coined the term "image architect" to define his approach to crafting and elevating his clients' public personas:

Law Roach [05:28]: "I wear them all the time. It's like... I really just don't give a... I really am really confident in who I am."

Law stresses the importance of confidence and authenticity in fashion, advocating for clothing that is lived in and reflects one's true self rather than adhering to fleeting trends.

Navigating Retirement and a Powerful Comeback

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Law's unexpected retirement and subsequent return to the fashion scene. Law shares the emotional turmoil that led to his decision:

Law Roach [12:20]: "I felt bombarded and disrespected... I was just like, work, work, work, work... I just started crying... I never thought that people cared about me as much as they did."

He candidly discusses his grieving process, the pressure of public perception, and the necessity of aligning his career with his personal well-being. Law's comeback is marked by a renewed sense of purpose and a commitment to working on his own terms.

Building a Sustainable Fashion Business

Law elaborates on his strategies for creating a sustainable business model post-retirement. He highlights the importance of trust and partnership, especially with his assistant Crystal:

Law Roach [28:13]: "I'm giving her equity in my business and making her a partner."

By empowering his team and decentralizing responsibilities, Law ensures that his business can thrive without compromising his personal boundaries.

"School of Style": Empowering the Next Generation

Passionate about giving back, Law discusses his "School of Style" program designed to open doors for aspiring stylists who lack formal training or industry connections:

Law Roach [23:36]: "We graduated 210 people in our last cohort... One girl just got a job with Vogue."

The program encapsulates Law's desire to democratize the fashion industry, providing resources and education to those eager to make their mark.

Future Projects: Costume Designing and Biopics

Looking ahead, Law expresses his ambition to delve into costume design, particularly for biopics like Zendaya's upcoming portrayal of Ronnie Spector:

Law Roach [25:29]: "If I want to do it and I want to work with her, I want... I want to earn it."

This venture signifies Law's commitment to storytelling through fashion, extending his influence beyond styling celebrities to shaping character narratives in film.

Legacy and Impact on the Fashion Industry

As the conversation nears its end, Law reflects on his legacy and the lasting impact he aims to leave on the fashion world:

Law Roach [28:36]: "My legacy... I want my legacy to be that I help people."

He emphasizes the importance of mentoring and elevating others, ensuring that his contributions continue to resonate within the industry long after he steps away.

Personal Insights: Coping with Grief and Work Ethic

Law opens up about the personal challenges he's faced, including the loss of his nephew, and how it has shaped his perspective on life and work:

Law Roach [18:31]: "It's the grief of knowing that you'll never see him become who he was supposed to be."

He discusses the sacrifices inherent in his career and the ongoing journey of balancing personal loss with professional ambition.

On maintaining a robust work ethic, Law shares his mantra of always pushing forward:

Law Roach [15:30]: "Anything that I manifest that I dream about... will happen for me."

He underscores the importance of resilience and the belief that one's destiny is unstoppable.

Interactive Segment: Thrifted or Shifted

In a fun and lighthearted segment, Keke and Law engage in a fashion game called "Thrifted or Shifted," showcasing their ability to creatively style vintage pieces. This playful interaction highlights their deep understanding of fashion and their comfort in experimenting with different looks.

Conclusion: Embracing Change and Building Legacy

The episode wraps up with reflections on the ever-evolving nature of one's career and the importance of adaptability:

Keke Palmer [58:54]: "He's been killing the game for years. But he's not just building looks. He's building legacy."

Law reiterates the significance of creating meaningful contributions that outlast personal achievements, solidifying his role as a visionary in the fashion industry.

Key Quotes:

• Law Roach [05:28]: "I really just don't give a... I really am really confident in who I am."
• Law Roach [28:13]: "I'm giving her equity in my business and making her a partner."
• Law Roach [15:30]: "Anything that I manifest that I dream about... will happen for me."

Final Thoughts

This episode of "Baby, This is Keke Palmer" offers a deep dive into Law Roach's multifaceted career, personal struggles, and triumphant return to the fashion world. Through candid conversations and insightful anecdotes, Keke and Law explore the intersections of fashion, personal identity, and resilience, providing listeners with both inspiration and practical wisdom.

Whether you're a fashion enthusiast or simply curious about the dynamics of personal branding, this episode delivers a compelling narrative of boundaries, breakups, and powerful comebacks.

Transcript

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, y', all. When we talk about serving looks, no one knows how to shut it down on a carpet quite like my guest today. As the world's only image architect, he's worked with Celine Dion, Ariana Grande, Anne Hathaway, Meg Thee, Stallion, Me, and of course, Zendaya. From his roots in Chicago to hustling his way to the top, becoming the first black stylist named Top Stylist of the Year by the Hollywood Reporter. He's broken down doors and broken the Internet with his insane pools. And when the game stopped serving him, he walked away. Now he's back and on his terms and sharing what's next? Baby, this is Keke Palmer and baby, this is La Roach. No matter what we doin in the car, just chillin pop on Amazon music. Sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, hovering it all, especially the bad. Cause money always evolves. No matter what it is. We gonna make it make sense. Nothing else will do but kick it with the homies and kings. So grab you a drink and a snack. You enj. You get into the vibe that only ones you know it's your girl. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah. This episode is presented in partnership with Airbnb. Baby, summer's calling and she's got one thing on her mind. Your next getaway. My take. Plan your trip by searching guest favorites on Airbnb because these most loved homes are ready for your next adventure. Let's get into it. Welcome to the show, Boo. Yeah. Come on. Walk and stutter step. Hey, Boo. It is so good to see you.

[Law Roach]

Good to be here.

[Keke Palmer]

We always cut up whenever we together, but, you know, I was excited to see what you was gonna wear to the show. Talk to me about this look. You look fabulous.

[Law Roach]

You know what? I did this in honor of you. This is like. This is Jabo. You know, we grew up.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

You know, it's very Chicago. Very Chicago. So. I love that you throw this on. Thank you.

[Keke Palmer]

Have you been I didn't get to catch up with at the Met gala? You looked amazing.

[Law Roach]

Thank you. You too.

[Keke Palmer]

And so did Zendaya.

[Law Roach]

Thank you. Thank you. Not that laugh.

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, we did see the. What were you thinking when you saw that same look from Ana? So I don't want to mispronounce her last name.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. Sw. I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was drunk. I had drank a whole bottle of champagne, cuz, you know, I started working again and so I had. I had six people and I consulted for the Burberry table. So I was, like, running around, you know, making sure everybody was okay. And so I didn't. I forgot to eat. Well, I didn't really forget to eat. I just didn't eat. Cause, you know, you gotta be snatched. So I had drank a bottle of champagne, and I had spoken to Zendaya the entire ride. You know, she had. Cause she had went earlier, and we got caught in a little traffic. And so I was talking to her, and I knew she had already, like, walked through the exhibit, and she was sitting down at her table. And so when I was getting interviewed, I looked down. I was like, why is she down there? And then I looked again. I'm like, oh, and you know us, like, you gonna get a real natural gut reaction. Like, we really can't hold back.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

And I was like, oh, you know, she got on Zendaya's look.

[Keke Palmer]

But Zendaya was first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, what did they say? Did you have a conversation with her? You said Carla Welch.

[Law Roach]

Carla Welch did it. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Did you guys talk afterwards?

[Law Roach]

Yeah, Carla was really cool. I think both of them was really cool about it. They just was paying homage to me and Zendaya, so I thought that was cute.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, wow.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. And it was like they had two different inspirations. The looks was really, really similar. But that's okay. You know what I mean? It wasn't. I feel like this time around, the Met Gala wasn't about the biggest gown or the brightest color. It was about paying homage to the theme. And I think they both did that in a really beautiful way.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Now, one thing that we also love about you, Law, other than your opinions and your looks, is your hair. Yeah, it's so fabulous. Now, I want to talk about the influence, because you said in the New Yorker that your hair is a lot influenced by Cher you really admired.

[Law Roach]

Oh, yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Growing up.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, it was like. Yeah, I guess it was that. And it was just. It was really inspired by this. This guy named Andre J, who was a. He was like, a social, like, party promoter stylist in New York in, like, the club scene in, like, the early 2000s. And he used. I remember seeing him when I started, like, running away to New York, and I remember seeing him, like, at parties, at clubs, and he used to have a beard, but he used to wear, like, long hair. And, like, at that time, it was just. I had never seen that. I never saw a black man do that. You know what I mean? I had never saw somebody present in this way that was very androgynous.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

You know what I mean? Like, we don't use the word androgyny anymore. And I don't think that's a bad word. No, I kind of like. I feel like I blur those lines sometime. And it's about. That's why I feel comfortable in that. And he used to do that. And so I think I just took that note, that snapshot. And when it came around for me to kind of create this Persona, I thought of him. And so that's really where that courage came from to do this.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. Well, shout out to Andre J. Is he still around?

[Law Roach]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Shout out to him. Love that we gave him that spotlight, but, yeah, I love androgyny. It makes me think about Annie Lennox. Yeah, I loved her a lot. You know, I'm very much so. Masculine charm with a feminine tribute.

[Law Roach]

We know, baby.

[Keke Palmer]

So it gives me life. We know. Now fashion, I think I realized it really is a tool to tell stories. And I think you're somebody who has really put that into the forefront. So when you're styling yourself, what is the message or the story that you're telling about law?

[Law Roach]

That I really just don't give a. I really am really confident in who I am, and you know what I mean? And I feel like I'm okay with not getting it right all the time. You know what I mean? And I also think that clothes should be lived in and worn and not put on this pedestal. Like, of course I have pieces that I've. Cause I collect. So I have things that I would never wear or whatever. But the clothes I do wear, like, I wear them all the time. You know what I mean? It's like. And I just really don't really give a. If I get it wrong. Sometimes it's like it's part of life. Like, it's just you gonna make mistakes in fashion, and that should be. Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, quickly, I wanna touch on. You have clothes that you'll never touch. Let's get into that tea. What is that about?

[Law Roach]

Well, I've been collecting for a while, and I have, like, a lot of Andre Leon Talley stuff. I bought a lot of stuff in a few auctions, and I've been collecting his pieces. So some things that I do wear and I will wear, but there's some pieces that I probably would never wear. Like, I have, like, Chanel jackets that Karl made for him. And, you know, I just don't feel like I will have the not the place to wear. But just like, I just feel like it's so sacred.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

Because there's two stories there. You know, it's the story of Karl Lagerfeld and it's also the story of Andre. And I just feel like maybe I will wear, but as of right now, I don't have plans to wear some of those pieces.

[Keke Palmer]

And so somebody might say, well, what made you get it? What was the reason to want that?

[Law Roach]

You know what I think so. Long time ago, you probably remember this, that when Oprah had a sale and she sold a lot of her clothes and shoes and stuff like that, and this one woman bought a pair of her shoes and she bought it for the reason, because she looked up to Oprah and who she was and what she's done. And she said she bought the shoes so that she can see what it feels like to walk in her shoes. Right. And so I think I'm a person that hears things and I kind of catalog things and when they become appropriate for me, I pull it out. And so, you know, to have something that was kind of made by this great designer for this great person that I looked up to gives me this energy to have just in my home and I can go touch and see it and look at it and smell it and all those things, you know, so it's just I have these things in my house that have come from people.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, it's an art piece. A collected. A collected edition that doesn't have to be worn to be appreciated for what it is. I mean, when did you start thinking about fashion like that? Because I'll be honest, some people probably just think about clothes like it's clothes, you know, they don't necessarily tie it to the story of the designer and who I am at this moment in time and where I'm going and what it means to me. Yeah, but you do.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, when did that. Was that as a kid or was that over the course of your love for style and fashion and then finding out the history of it?

[Law Roach]

Yeah, I think it's cause I got. I was born with a little sugar.

[Keke Palmer]

In my tank, period.

[Law Roach]

You know what I mean?

[Keke Palmer]

Some Kool Aid.

[Law Roach]

You know, it's like it's all. It's all I ever. The only talent I've ever had. And the only thing I really was able to appreciate is fashion and style, you know, and so I just grew up with that appreciation. And then it's just I'm self taught, you know what I mean? It's just like I just Learn. And I'm always a student. Even now I'm a student of the game, you know?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Well, I mean, you are the world's only image architect. Rightfully so. You know, looking back on your looks, you've had so many. What would be the one that you think would represent the philosophy that made you coin the phrase, I'm an image architect? Or the many moments or the client.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think what people really know and appreciate me for is Zendaya Celine Dion. Right. And I think that's where you see the most influence and the most presence of that term. Right. Because I remember when I first started working with Celine, like, it was my mission to show people how cool she was and how she was younger than we all thought. We all grew up with her. We thought. When I started working with her, people thought she was 60 already, you know what I mean? Cause we grew up with her our whole lives. Right, exactly. So I had to, you know, create a blueprint and a plan to change people's perception of who she was as an artist, as a woman, as a person. And so that's kind of, you know, what I was able to prove. And, you know, and I think I've done it with other people to kind of like elevate them who they are, you know what I mean? Not change people, just elevate it and change the public's perception of who they are.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. To architect. To be the architect of the image.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

But there's also. There's how people see themselves. There's how you see them, there's how the world sees them. How do you strike the balance between honoring a client's vision but at the same time, staying true to yourself?

[Law Roach]

I don't come to it with any ego at all. Right. You know, we gonna bring up that phone call. When you call me, you know, it's gonna come up. Cause we gotta revisit that. But you know what I mean?

[Keke Palmer]

So the kids were gagged.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. It's because even that when I was working with you and I just couldn't. And, you know, I will say that I just wasn't getting it right for whatever reason. And when you call, like, there's no ego in that. When you called and said that to me, it's like, no, you're right. Maybe this isn't the right time for us to work together. Maybe I wasn't the right stylist for you at the time. So there's no ego with me, it's all about making. And I felt bad and hurtful that, you know, that I couldn't get it right from you for you, because I didn't. I felt like I was adding stress. You were pregnant. You got 17 jobs. You know what I mean? Like, I was, like, going on, and it was like, I feel bad for that. So there's. I never go into a situation with anybody with ego. I am in a service business. It's a service job. And I am no different. I say this all the time. I'm no different than the nanny or the chef or the person that cuts the grass. We all get paid to do a service.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

And I'm trying to do the best I can to make my. My client happy. And I wasn't able to do that for you at that time. So, you know, and I look at every client that. Like that, no matter how big or small or where they are in their career.

[Keke Palmer]

But I think. I think that's a big part of why you're so successful law. And I really hope people understand that about you. Because before I met you, you met Sharon. You and Sharon was talking. I met you on a single lady set. I'll never forget it. We've known each other for years, and I feel like over the course of our time, you changed. You have always been dedicated to the job, dedicated to the hustle, and deeply, truly in love with fashion.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And so it's like, whether it was that moment or the next moment, you know, you. We always gonna have a connection. I just see you as the talented and incredible person you are that came from Chicago and really made the impossible happen.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, I mean, really, what you have done, it's been. It's. You've changed it.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Forever.

[Law Roach]

Thank you.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, you retired.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And that was crazy to all of us.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And we didn't understand why.

[Law Roach]

And you checked in on me too.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Because I was like, baby, you, like.

[Law Roach]

Get me to see what happened. What happened.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, I'm gonna call for that team. Yes. And I'm like, why? And so I wanna talk to you about that initial moment when you said. Not only when you said to yourself, but when you decided to announce it to the world.

[Law Roach]

Well, I did it both simultaneously. It was like I was riding in the car with my publicist, who's here. We had just got off the plane in Miami, and this was the day after the Oscars, and we had gotten in a plane, got off the plane in Miami. And that morning before I got on the plane, I had this call with one of my clients. And she, like, I felt bombarded and disrespected in a way, and somebody who I felt like I had protected wasn't protecting me. And then it was a lot of stuff. I was really overworked, and I was working with people I shouldn't be working with, and I was saying yes to everything. And then, you know, my. My nephew had had, you know, passed away recently, and it was like I was. I had all these things that. That I couldn't. That I wasn't dealing with, and I was just like, work, work, work, work. And then I got off the. And I just started crying. I just. And I found that generic image that said retired, and I posted and wrote the message. I never thought that it would turn into what it turned into. And I didn't know that people cared about me as much as they did.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, yes.

[Law Roach]

Around the world. And so it gave me a different perception. And then once I threw it out there, I felt like I had to stick to it. Right.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

And then I went through this whole grieving process of, you know, figuring out who I was and letting who I thought I was go and all these things. And. Yeah. So I went away and I wrote a book. And I mean.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, the great thing about it is that we didn't really lose you all the way. You know, maybe you weren't styling, but you got a book.

[Law Roach]

You did a. And I was still doing Zendaya, so it was kind of like. I really wasn't.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, you're, like, retired, but not retired. But I'm really just not with the rest of y'. All.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, exactly.

[Keke Palmer]

Type of vibe. But during that time, I mean, my question to you, when it comes to your relationship with fashion, like, you've done incredible things as a stylist, but also just, like, as a creative director over people's brands.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Was there a moment in time where you felt like fashion does not allow you to take that next stage, that next step out of just being a stylist? Like, you know, we look at artists, musicians, becoming creative directors for fashion houses, and, you know, in my mind, is that something that you want? Is that something that you were interested in and that they were not allowing you in?

[Law Roach]

No, no, no, no. I've had offers, an offer on the table to be the creative director of an Italian shoe brand, and when I retired, it scared them, and so they. They kind of, like, pulled the. The offer back.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

But, you know, whatever. I always think, like, things happen exactly when it's supposed to. Exactly. You know, there. There are things that I am, you know, manifesting in conversation to do so. There will be some things happening.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Because, I mean, what you. You know, that's what you do.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, and so I always wonder, because as black people, as, you know, people in the fashion industry or the entertainment industry, any industry really, that we're in, there's always that question of, are these opportunities open for me? And when you're working in this industry, how do you handle that? I know I handle it from my own point of view in the entertainment industry, but how do you go about it?

[Law Roach]

You know what? I just. I think that everything. Any and everything is possible, you know, And I never. I've never had anybody in my life who works for me or work with me to tell me that something's impossible. So I really believe that anything that I manifest that I dream about, that I see myself doing will happen for me.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

And I think that's how I keep all that other out of the way, because I'm like, you can't stop what's meant for me. Nobody can. For what's for me is for me.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

I think that's how I'm able to stay positive all the time and think positive and move in a positive way, is because I really believe that. That no one can stop what's for me.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. And I agree. I mean, I think, again, challenges are real, but that doesn't mean you stop. Yeah, you just keep going.

[Law Roach]

You just keep going.

[Keke Palmer]

At the Fashion Trust Awards, you said that you're officially back open for business, and you introduced us to a new muse of yours.

[Law Roach]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Ryan Destiny.

[Law Roach]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

So tell me about that coming back, why you want to talk about it at the Fashion Trust Awards. And obviously, I know why, Ryan Destiny, because she's my girl. But, I mean, let's talk about why for you.

[Law Roach]

Well, I wanted to announce it because I knew the Met Gala was coming. And, you know, I was like, let me just. I want to be dramatic. You know, I'm like, I'm retired as dramatic. I might as well un. Retire in a dramatic way. But I knew the mat was coming. I knew that I was going to be working with some new people, like a whole new roster of people. And Ryan is somebody who. I just think she's extremely gorgeous and talented. Her mom, you know, who manages her. She and I have been talking, and, yeah, we just decided. I'm like, you know what? Let's try it. Let's see what happens.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

I love her, and I've been Enjoying it?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I love her. I just love the recent look that you guys did. That baby dol look, the little bow. She looks fabulous. You've spoken about burnout. We talk about it all the time. We both be working several jobs. How do you pace yourself? You know, how do you know when to pause and push? I mean, I'm sure the retirement sort of thing helped, but what did you learn in that about your relationship to work?

[Law Roach]

I still don't have a great relationship to it because I'm just like, what I did learn how to do is say no. And I also learned that no is a complete answer. Right. And I don't have to have any explanation behind it. If I say no, it's no. And you know, you know, in this business, like, you say no, and then people will tell you all the reasons why you should say yes. And I think I used to fall for that. And now I'm just like, no is no and don't ask me about it again. But I still, I love to work. And I do thrive in off chaos. You know what I mean? Like, I thrive off being super busy. And, you know, I just love it, you know, I don't have no man or no dog or no kids, so it's like, what else you got, girl? You know what I mean? But I do have a lot of real estate and a lot of other things. You know what I mean? But, you know, it's just like, I like it. I like to work like that.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

You know, but I'm not gonna lie and say, oh, I figured out balance. And I figured out, you know, I figured out how to say no.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I don't really know if there's a whole. I don't know if it was Obama or somebody said that. I think it was Barack Obama that said there's really no such thing as work life balance. Like, it's just like, especially if you do what you're passionate about, you know, And I'm passionate about. People say, aren't you tired? I'm like, yeah, but I'm still up, you know what I mean? Because I love what I do. And so I think it's ebbs and flows. You make it do what it do, you know, you are who you are. I do want to stop for a second and just ask you, how you doing about your nephew who you lost in 2021, and you know, how that's been for you because obviously grief is a lifelong process.

[Law Roach]

I feel for my brother and, and his, you know, his partner, but yeah, it's just like, for me, it's. It's those. We have the same birthday, so that's what makes it hard. But, yeah, it's just like. It's the grief of knowing that you'll never know. I'll never see him become who he was supposed to be, you know? You understand what I mean? Like, when you lose someone and you have memories, like, I really have memories of him too much because only saw him. He was three. Only saw him a few times because I was always working, you know, So I only have one or two memories of him. You know what I mean? So when I think of it that way, that's what makes it tough. And it's like. Then it's the guilt of, like, well, why you didn't make more time. But, you know, it is. It is, you know. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

How do you deal with that? Cause obviously I deal with it, too, since growing up in the industry, where it's like, you miss out on so many moments, pivotal moments. Oh, this person went to college or they went to the family reunion, and, you know, you make do with it. But, like, as time goes on, how do you handle that for yourself?

[Law Roach]

I don't know if there's a right answer to that. You know what I mean? It's just. It is what it is. You sacri. We sacrifice for this business. We sacrifice for our careers. You know? You sacrifice for your child. You know what I mean? Like, I sacrifice so that I'll never have to go to bed hungry again. You know what I mean? Like, when you come from a place you work so that you never have to worry about that again, you know? So the sacrifices you make, they kind of, like, outweigh the things you missed.

[Keke Palmer]

In a way, they do. And I really do feel like that's that Chicago hustle. Like, ain't nothing worth. Ain't nothing too hard for me to make sure that ain't what's happening again. So during your break, I wanna go back to that because, yeah, you were retired somewhat with styling, but you put out your book, which we did that great. Had that great conversation. Thank you again for having me there with you and Imani. It was a ball. I feel like you always plugging me into stuff, and I really love that you think about it.

[Law Roach]

I love you.

[Keke Palmer]

I love you, too.

[Law Roach]

I'm obsessed with you, actually.

[Keke Palmer]

I know. She's like. I love it's energy. Always.

[Law Roach]

I just. We just saw each other on the play. I was waiting for you to turn around. I'm like.

[Keke Palmer]

And you was sleep, you know, I saw you first. You was all sleeping all pretty like snow white. I was like, yes. Hair was still laid. I don't know how you do it.

[Law Roach]

Try to stay, baby.

[Keke Palmer]

This is Icky Palma. Yeah. Summer is here and you know what that means. It's time to live your best life. This couple's trip I took to Turks and Caicos a while back lives rent free in my mind. Okay, let me paint the picture. I stayed in this gorgeous Airbnb. Airbnb right on the beach, waking up to the sound of waves and stepping out onto the pristine white sand. That memory is still giving me summertime magic. Now, whether you're for a beachfront paradise, like I had a cozy cabin in the woods or a chic city apartment, Airbnb's got amazing homes waiting for you. We're talking better locations, more privacy, and the kind of space that'll have you feeling like the star of your own summer blockbuster. So don't let the summer slip away. Book your Airbnb now and get ready to live that main character life. Trust me, you're gonna have a time, baby. I have never, and I mean never, been more devastated than when I found out that some of y' all been sneaking around behind Domino's back just to get your stuffed crust fixed. Now, you know us Virgos are incredibly loyal. Steadfast even. Cheating, especially on something as serious as Parmesan stuffed crust pizza ain't gonna fly in this house. I saw y' all slide into those other pizza spots, drive throughs ordering that cheese filled crust like Domino's, and I wouldn't find out about your little rendezvous. But sweetie, the healing starts today because Domino's just dropped their own stuffed crust. And now y' all got no excuse to keep stepping out on them like this. It's time to put those pizza cheating ways to rest. Domino's new Parmesan stuffed crust is serving pure decadence with that buttery, handmade dough wrapped around a cascading stream of 100% melty goodness. These are the cheese pulls of your dreams. It's very much a goofy movie level of ooey, gooey, cheesy deliciousness. And of course, your girl can't forget about that signature garlic seasoning and Parmesan sprinkle dance on top of that perfectly baked crust, making every single taste taste like it was blessed by the pizza gods themselves. Think about it now. I'm already imagining the Parm stuffed pie I've been plotting on. Next time I'm placing my order. You best believe I'm Having mushrooms, grilled onions and some extra peppers just to, you know, keep the vegetables on top. Now this is the kind of commitment I'm talking about. No more pizza cheating needed when Domino's is bringing this level of excellence to the table. Order Domino's new Parmesan stuffed crust pizza on the Domino's app and use code keke to get any three topping Parmesan Stuffed Crust Pizza for 11.99. Price is higher for some locations. You must ask for this limited time offer. Prices, participation, delivery area and charges may vary. Delivery orders subject to local stores. Delivery charge. Holla at your girl. I wanna talk about your School of Style program that you launched. Because that was incredible. What made you do that, you know, and how was it?

[Law Roach]

Well, I did it so that people will have a easier access into the industry. Right. And because of me, because I didn't have that, I never was an assistant, I never was an intern. I kind of just came to LA and like, I'm gonna do what I can, you know, I'm just gonna hustle, basically. So I developed this course based on the infrastructure that I built for myself and how I, you know, became successful. And so that we packaged that up and so we, we graduated 210 people in our last cohort. And our second cohort is going on right now. And I was just so proud of it because people have been working. One girl just got a job with Vogue. It's like, so it was a way of me doing something to be creative, but also to kind of just. I wouldn't really call it giving back. Cause it's not free, but you know what I mean, like just to give access to people.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, I mean, the industry does have to be democratized to some degree, especially for people like us who have the ideas and all the things, but don't have the resources, don't even have the same language of how to communicate in these spaces because no one's told us. And some of that's systemic, some of that's just like what you're close to. I mean, it's what's available to you. So it's important. And I mean, at this point in your career, you have done so much. I'm sure there's so much more you're going to continue to accomplish. But to now start opening that space, I'm sure gives you so much more, like passion to keep going and drive.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, I'm proud of all those, proud of the team I built. I'm proud of the people that have taken the course. And I'M really super hands on. Like. Yeah, yeah. So it's great. It makes me really happy.

[Keke Palmer]

Congratulations. Now, you've spoken of wanting to costume design, which I think is absolutely incredible. But what was interesting is that you said you want to go through the whole process. This was in a complex media. Please explain series. And you talked about how you want to do the auditioning and you want to show your deck and you want to do. So tell me, did you do it? What's the project or what are the projects?

[Law Roach]

So Zendaya is going to play Ronnie Spector in the biopic whenever it happens. And they're working on it. And I just love period stuff.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Law Roach]

And you know.

[Keke Palmer]

And I know the director, Barry Jenkins.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. And so, you know, I've never actually really wanted to do anything because we always kept it like her TV movie stuff. Like, I've never, never really had a hunger to do that. I did Malcolm and Marie, but that was like, small. And during COVID it was like, you know, a couple looks, but I was like, if I want to do it and I want to work with her, I want. I don't want it to be like, oh, you know, Law Roach wants to. I want to, like, work. I want to earn it, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

So I mean, it's so different. Like, you know, when you said that, it is different, like somebody that styles you on the carpet, a lot of times they're not pulling or thinking or caring about the same things that someone is doing when they're costume designing, which is building the story in a character. So. But I feel like you would obviously be amazing in it, so I can't wait to see if that happens. If that happens.

[Law Roach]

I would love that. We keep talking about we manifesting.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right. That's right, Barry.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. I ain't even asked Zendaya yet, so she probably go ahead and see visually now.

[Keke Palmer]

You said that your business will look different at this time. What does that mean? And this is from Complex Media. Please explain as well. What boundaries have you created to make your career more sustainable, if that's the right word, sustainable.

[Law Roach]

What I'm doing now is that I am. I have an assistant that stayed with me through everything. She really kind of like held me down. When my nephew died, I was. Had became an editor at British Vogue and I was fabulous. And I was doing this huge Hollywood piece where we had like 25 shoots and we were shooting all the biggest stars that were in the run. You know, they do that. That nominated for the award season or whatever. And so she did all the work for me. And, like, she's the only assistant that could ever. I've had probably 100 assistants. She's the only one who could ever say that she did all my work. Like, she did all my. Like, I think out of that we did 25 shoots. I may have done two. Wow. And she just. She let me grieve and she. She answered every email and she. And so she stayed with me. Her name is Crystal.

[Keke Palmer]

Crystal.

[Law Roach]

And she was my assistant in London and she still works with me. And so what I'm doing now is because I built such a big. I had built such a big business, and I'm rebuilding a big business. Like, I'm giving her equity in my business and making her a partner. So, you know, and that's the. Another way that I'm thinking, like, to make the business sustainable. And it's not just me, because my business was global 24. Seven. Seven days a week. I had, you know, four assistants in LA. I had assistant in New York, assistant in London, assistant in Paris. So it just never stopped.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

You know what I mean? And I want to build my business back to that place, but I don't want to do it by myself. So I'm making her a partner in the business and give her equity in the business.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's incredible because people don't understand me. No one can do it without their team.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Now that's me, my assistant, my mom, my partners. It's a big deal. And you've had a. I mean, you've had other successful assistants that you work with. Cardi B's Colin Carter. Colin Carter. Wasn't he your assistant for years? And so now I just love to hear about that. You know what I mean? Because it's important and we want them to grow with us.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. Because what it is, is that you don't want to leave this industry or this world and not have a legacy. Right. And so your legacy should not. For me, it's not I just put a bunch of pretty girls or did this pretty work in fashion. But my legacy. I want my legacy to be that I help people. Right. And that's also the way that you become immortal. Right. Because the people you help will never stop talking about you and you won't be forgotten. You know, there have people who have risen to great heights and we don't even hear their names anymore because they didn't leave a legacy and they didn't elevate anybody else with them. You know, it kind of could seem a little selfish. Like saying you want to be immortal, but I don't want my contributions to this industry and to this world to be gone when I leave.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, people need a blueprint. Also, with what you just said, it sounds like you could be wearing that Andre Leon Talley Chanel coat sooner than you think, because he's one of those people. And I definitely think you are one of those people that we're seeing in real time grow to that place. Because, yes, you should be remembered so that people know a path that they can walk. Even if they derivate from it, they still know it existed.

[Law Roach]

You give them a reference point.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

Like, I love that. I love when people are like, oh, I was able to get more money because you had already done this before. And it's like, I didn't have that. You know, I had to fight for all that. We had to be scrappy and argue with people and walk away from deals and all this type of stuff to get to the place where, you know, I was paid. Right.

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, do you think there are part. I mean, you kind of said it, but maybe even more specifically parts of the industry that were forced to shift because of what you did, because you pushed back against.

[Law Roach]

Oh, absolutely. But it wasn't me alone. It was Zendaya. She fought that fight for me. You know what I mean? Like, we made a promise to each other. Like, I said I would do everything I can that I know how to do, and I will learn everything I can to make sure that you're elevated. And, you know, and she said, every step of the way, I'm gonna take you with me. So when she gained control of her career and found her voice, she made sure that she advocated me in those rooms. Like, and she would literally say, like, even now. I mean, it don't happen as much now, because people know. But she would be like, well, if he's not included or if he can't be the stylist or he can't help me make these decisions, I'm not doing it. And it's like, when you have somebody that's a partner for you and is willing to walk away from sometimes millions of dollars to make sure that you get your share. It's incredible. Like, it's incredible.

[Keke Palmer]

Is it just that Virgo cancer connection? I think so. Or is it just the fact that you guys came up together? I mean, I look at what you guys built. You guys built each other's brand at the same time.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, I said this one time so when I now that I'm doing, like, partnerships and all that, and I'm, you know, I ask for what I want, and I'll be like, yeah, no, I'm not trying to be Zendaya. I know I'm not Zendaya. And somebody said, but you are the Zendaya of what you do.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

And I was like, oh, well, give me more. Give me more money. Give me one thing.

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, you guys are, like opposites of the same coin. You know what I mean? It's beautiful to see anytime you see people that have a shared love in a medium and storytelling and just get to see them grow, it's a beautiful thing to witness.

[Law Roach]

I mean, and it's so real. And it's not perfect. Like, we argue and fight, but I don't think love is perfect. No. And we should not try to pretend it is. And, you know, if she wanted to say. If she say it right now, like, I'm walking away from the industry and, you know, I want you to come to such and such and come with me, I probably would do it.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

I mean, I probably would do it. You know what I mean? It's like, that's how. Because I know. I know that we are gonna take care of each other.

[Keke Palmer]

I think that relationship is important. It makes me. Every time everything you're saying is making me think about Sergio Hudson. He was that person for me that said, I see it for you, and that taught me. And I continuously learn every day. And I definitely do argue with him. He get on my nerves. But he tell me the truth.

[Law Roach]

He has such a. Such a great Met Gala. Such a great Met Gala. So good.

[Keke Palmer]

It was just incredible.

[Law Roach]

So good.

[Keke Palmer]

It was just.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. Anyway, really proud of him.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm very proud of him, too. It's a blessing. I'm very blessed for the relationship that we have now. You said that you could take somebody from Chicago and put them anywhere and not only will they survive, but they will thrive. And I couldn't agree more. I want to know from you what, from your Chicago roots and upbringing that you feel you directly took into your fashion career that helped you to survive and thrive.

[Law Roach]

I took everything. I took, you know, that little boy that went to bed hungry, crying, you know? Cause it wasn't enough for me and my four siblings and basically raising myself since I was 14 and surviving off the kindness of others and learning how to code switch and becoming what I need to become, you know what I mean? To get to survive. And I think when you come From a place like that, you can drop me anywhere. Like I always say, like, if I was a. When I was a bartender, I was one of the most successful bartenders in Chicago, you know what I mean? Like, I made more money than my manager used to do this on purpose. He would go get the prettiest girls. He would go try to find the prettiest girls. They would be there, out, fat, long hair, exotic, light skinned. And at the end of the night, we would all count our money and I would ring more than them and I would make more tips than that. He pulled me to something. He's like, I don't understand how you do it. I said, they only appealing to one thing.

[Keke Palmer]

It's that mouthpiece.

[Law Roach]

They only appealing one thing. I could talk to anybody, you know what I mean? Like, and so that I just brought. When I jumped over the bar and said, I'm not doing this no more. I'm going to LA to be a stylist, I took all that with me.

[Keke Palmer]

Why do you think Chicago is like that? You know, I don't wanna be biased, you know what I'm saying? But it's like, why are we all so ready to get in? Like, what is that energy?

[Law Roach]

I think it's just the city. It's just, I don't know, was it.

[Keke Palmer]

The great migration people that did the.

[Law Roach]

Great migration, the mob stuff, still fighting, you know what I mean? The mob, we had it all, you know what I mean?

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, the list go common, you know what I mean? Me, you, Dwyane Wade. I mean, it's like there's a hustle there that won't quit.

[Law Roach]

So just don't stop. Don't stop.

[Keke Palmer]

No. Now, you started your career with the vintage store. Deliciously vintage. And what was it in Pilsen and Pilsen. In Pilsen now, no formal training or internships or connection to designers. What made you and how did you think, yeah, I'm about to do this vintage store and was it something that was okay?

[Law Roach]

It was a hustle.

[Keke Palmer]

It was all a hustle.

[Law Roach]

Everything I do is birthed from a hustle. So my grandmother used to take me thrifting, right? So I just.

[Keke Palmer]

My grandmama loved thrifting too.

[Law Roach]

I would just go thrifting with her, so I never forgot that. So I would go and get stuff from the thrift stores or whatever and I'll wear it. And then I just started like buying things. Like I would buy like a purse here and there, like these long clutches from the 50s. And I just had a Car. A trunk full of it.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

And I remember one day I opened my trunk for something, and one of my girlfriends were like, oh, my God, let me see that bag. That bag looked like that's a John Clayton bag, you know, that was Tracee Ellis Ross. She used to wear these long clutches, and she was like, let me buy that for you. And I paid like $3 for it. I was like, okay, give me 60 bucks for it. And she's like, okay. And then. And so that turned into. I'm like, oh, okay, this is a hustle. So I would go thrifting. I always have a good inventory of stuff. I would throw a hotel, get a hotel room, get some cheap champagne, mix it with some peach juice, have, you know, mimosas and Bellinis, and invite the girls. And they would try on clothes. I would get it dry clean. If it was knee, I would raise it up. I would take the waist in, you know, cheap alterations, and the girls would buy it. And so I just kept doing that and doing that, and then I was able to open the store.

[Keke Palmer]

Would you ever do that again? Or would you ever let people pull from you again? Would you ever do, like, something like this?

[Law Roach]

You know, I sell some stuff. When I think that it should be on somebody, I want to see it live on somebody. I'll sell some stuff. But it has to be. It has to be like, the right and the right thing. You know, if I see a. If I got a dress, I'd be like, keke, you used to buy this dress for me, period. I'll see it for you. You know what I mean? Then I'll do that. But, yeah, I still love that. I love. It's a treasure hunt, because, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

The girls will be on your doorstep.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

What do you got? I mean, I want to talk about the Thierry Mugler robot suit from the Dune II premiere. Because IT generated over 150 million in media impact value. I say that to say, do you think that the industry truly grasped the value of stylists, what they bring to a celebrity's image? Do you think that they do?

[Law Roach]

I think after that Dune run and after challengers. I think so. Right?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

And when I get a chance, I always want to advocate. Because what I did for challengers, I thought was so amazing because Tashi Duncan didn't exist, you know, as opposed to Barbie. And no shade to that. And what that thing was, that was great.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Law Roach]

But Barbie has existed our whole lives. Right. Barbie's been around for 60 years. Right. So to create those looks Based off something that already existed. Was easier for me to create this world of Tashi Duncan. We did like a Faux magazine. Put her on the COVID of the magazine. And mind you, Zendaya never posted any of this. This was all done from my social media channels. To walk into Target and tennis court was at the front of the store. And to see the direct impact from this, this idea that I had to bringing this character to life, I do think that studios started to understand, or should have started to understand the power that stylist have to put assets in those seats to see those movies.

[Keke Palmer]

So what happens? Do you go at that meeting and say, hey, I have a meeting. I have a pitch deck. This is a thing. Or do you just do it as you go?

[Law Roach]

So that was Zendaya's first movie as the leading lady. So I'm like, I'mma go, oh, I'm going crazy for you. You know, while she was, you know, I was in there, you know, Virgos, y' all want everything to be perfect. And she was like, you know, I hope people go see the movie. And she had. And I was like, you do that. You do the work again. Let me play with these clothes. You know what I mean? Like, let me create this world around this character. And so I did that and to see the impact, because then all of a sudden, you saw brands pushing tennis clothes, and, you know, the tennis skirt became trending, and all this stuff was trending. And then. So to see that, you know, like, studios should pay, and I think we should be paid to do that, I.

[Keke Palmer]

Was about to say. Cause that's the reason why I'm asking is that reminds me of Kevin Hart back in the day. What he did with Think Like a Man, he pretty much helped to digitally market the film, created his own company, and now it's hired. Because of that work he did initially, probably for free, it became another side business. And so when I'm hearing you talk, what I'm hearing is marketing strategy through fashion, storytelling. And that makes me say, that's another business.

[Law Roach]

Oh, yeah, that is another business. Let's start it.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. Cause I got movies.

[Law Roach]

I want to be in business with you.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. Cause I'm like, that's three months.

[Law Roach]

Because one thing she gonna do is get a check.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. Now, when stepping into the next generation of creatives and even thinking about the things we're saying, right? Just expanding that space, what advice would you give to them?

[Law Roach]

You know, don't put your phone on. Do not disturb. I can't stand that. I hate it. I hate it if I look down and your phone is on do not disturb. I don't even wanna talk to you no more. It's like they're done like that in a way, because it's like I just can't understand the person that wants to put their phone on do not disturb at 9pm and don't take it off to 9am, especially if you in LA. I'm like, it's already.

[Keke Palmer]

I do think that the work ethic could pick up a bit more.

[Law Roach]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I do think. You know what I mean? I do think that. But look, you're talking to a workaholic at this point. You know what I'm saying?

[Law Roach]

But you might also say that you want to be me or you want to have the career I have or the lifestyle I have, and then put your phone on do not disturb. I don't even know how to do that. I never learned. And I don't care who would call me any. I'm answering. People be calling me, like, you up? Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh, you sound like Sharon. I don't even think my mom sleeps.

[Law Roach]

What she talking about? Hello? And I definitely answer all the numbers. I don't know.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my God.

[Law Roach]

I don't know that number. Oh, I'm answering that.

[Keke Palmer]

That's when your ex is called.

[Law Roach]

I don't know. That might be some money. We answering that.

[Keke Palmer]

I love it for you. Love. Like love life is. No, I don't think I've ever heard you about, heard you talk about going on a date, anything. So your love life, you don't have no ideas for marriage?

[Law Roach]

I don't have aspirations for that. I don't like. I don't have any aspirations for like a romantic love. Like, I want a nice meal. I want to have a nice meal. I want to. I want to go to sleep. And then I want you to leave. I want you to leave. I want you to go back to wherever you came from.

[Keke Palmer]

Whoopi Goldberg has my favorite quote. She's like, no, I don't want anybody in my house.

[Law Roach]

Same.

[Keke Palmer]

And I'm like, I do relate to that. Is that just like when you were like, in love with what you do?

[Law Roach]

Is that I just never, ever had the. I'll tell you a story. So my friend is crazy. One of my friends was crazy about love. He like, oh, I just can't wait to find my love or the love of my life so I could wake up with him and go to sleep with him and call. And he called me and we eat together. All that. And he was like, and I'm praying for you to find somebody else. I say, save your prayers for yourself. Don't pray that prayer for me. Pray that. Don't pray that prayer for me. I don't want it. I don't want it.

[Keke Palmer]

I don't want it. Now what are my kids? That neither.

[Law Roach]

No. I would have loved to have been a parent, but I just don't think now it makes sense for me.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Is what it is.

[Law Roach]

But that. That I don't want it.

[Keke Palmer]

You got plenty of daughters.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Now, you've been a judge on America's Next Top Model. Obviously legendary. Well, we had our legendary moment, Child.

[Law Roach]

You ate that.

[Keke Palmer]

You ate that all day now. I mean, you're about to be on Project Runway. I live for you on these shows because you're always going to give us a gag and a role. And I think sometimes people don't know, like, this is the Persona. This is the entertainment. I'm giving y' all the life that y' all need. But then also, at the end of the day, like, you are actually one of the sweetest people that I know. Ooh.

[Law Roach]

Don't ever say that out loud.

[Keke Palmer]

I know. So how is it when you go on these shows and you decide how to give, you know, how to give these people what they paid for?

[Law Roach]

That's exactly what it is, right? It's. There is. There's a formula to television, and we all know that every show needs a villain, right? And so I'm not a. But I get paid to play a. On television.

[Keke Palmer]

And I love it.

[Law Roach]

Love it. You know what I mean? But it is like, you know, just like you, very quick wit, you know, you out. You quick on your feet. You gonna. You come back with a comeback. You know what I mean? And so it's what I'm good at. And it also gives me a chance to be expressive in a way, outside of being expressive as a stylist.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

You know what I mean?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, baby. This is Icky Palma. Yeah. Summer reading. More like summer listening. I've been living for Emily Henry's Great Big Beautiful Life on Audible, okay? It's got everything. A mysterious heiress, competing biographers, and that slow burn romance that makes you want to just throw your phone across the room. But don't, because how else are you going to keep up listening? That would be crazy. And that's what I love about Audible. You can dive into these amazing stories while doing literally everything else. Working out. Listen. Meal prep. Listen. Pretending to clean. But really just dancing with the vacuum, baby. Listen. With over a million titles and thousands included with membership, Audible's got all the audiobook, podcasts and originals you could want. Your imagination deserves this. Head to audible.com for a free 30 day trial and your first audiobook is on me. Visit audible.comke and sign up today. There's more to imagine when you listen, y'.

[Law Roach]

All.

[Keke Palmer]

In celebration of their 20th anniversary, Apple Podcasts just named our show one of the 20 podcasts they love. Can you believe it? These are the shows they say bring the best stories, the freshest voices, and are changing the game in how we all listen. I mean, what an honor. We are so proud to be a part of this moment and excited to help shape the next 20 years of podcasting. If you're just joining us, go check out some of our favorite episodes. This is what we do on, baby. This is Keke Palmer. Now, when you're on these shows talking to these contestants, what do you wish someone would have said to you coming up, you know, what are you thinking when you're in those moments with them and trying to give it to them real in this quick 20 second moment they have with.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, no, I don't wish any. I think all the good advice I got, I got, you know what I mean? I'm not. I don't feel like I missed anything. You know, some of the best advices, the best advice I ever got, somebody told me just sometimes you gotta be still and whatever that means to you, be still in motion or be still in your thoughts. And for me, it's be still in my thoughts. Like when things get a little bit out of control, I just have to take a minute to, like, be still and it'll come to me. And so, you know, that was some of the best advice I've ever gotten, and I take that with me all the time now.

[Keke Palmer]

I don't think I was surprised when I heard this. Maybe I was initially, but then once it settled in, I was like, no, this sounds right, but you studied psychology in college. I'm wondering how that connects to the way you view fashion, the way you add the storytelling and keep the meta element a part of it. What do you think that you learned from school?

[Law Roach]

I think it learned. It learned me to understand people, you know what I mean? And women, truly women, you know what I mean? It just helped me be able to communicate. Not without using words. Like, I can. I. I can just watch your body language, you know what I mean? Like, and I could tell when something is Making you feel uneasy or angry or when you're happy or when you're sad. Like, I know it's taught me when to speak and when to shut the up and just watch, you know what I mean? Or listen. And so that's what I took from it more than anything else.

[Keke Palmer]

What do you observe about a talent before pulling for them?

[Law Roach]

I do a lot of research. Like, I'll go and look at everything you've ever worn in your entire life if I can, you know, And I look at pictures and I watch interviews. Like, if I see you on an interview and you keep doing, you doing this or you doing this, like something's uncomfortable, like something's too tight or something's not wrong, or you're not confident about the dress, or if you. I can just watch and I'll know. I'll look at something. I can tell you, like, oh, you really didn't like that dress, or you didn't like this look for whatever reason. And you'll probably be like, oh, yeah, I hated my hair or my makeup wasn't right. I can see all that in a picture. You know what I mean? Like, I can see it in somebody's smile. I can see it in the way they talk. But that's just for years of me just studying people's body language. And, you know, like, I just recently dressed John Baptiste, and John Baptiste is such a genius, and you can see that he sees music, right? And so in the fitting with him, he speaks not with words, but he speaks with sounds and he communicates with body language. And so I had to catch on to that quick and watch him move and see, like. And I just. I don't know, it just all came back to me, like, the years of experience. And I was just watching him, and I was like, oh, okay, I see what it is. Like, he doesn't like the hem or the pants. And so I went down and I started to fix it, and he was like, oh, yeah. You know, and it was. He's so brilliant. And the whole time he's listening to jazz, and I feel like he's listening to jazz, but he's creating music at the same time. And so he's making sounds and he's moving his hand and he's dancing, he's swaying, but he's also looking at himself in the mirror, and he's watching you watch him, and he's giving you these signs, but he's not saying anything. So I did a whole fitting with him, with him barely saying anything. Like, I can see the way he. It was. I wish I had got it on camera.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

Just how amazing that was. Cause when I walked away from it and I started to talk to my assistant about it, I'm just like. We just did a whole fitting with somebody not even really talking to us, which is absolutely terrifying.

[Keke Palmer]

And she gave you some jazz.

[Law Roach]

But incredible at the same time that I was able to, like, just go. It was just a motion. And I could tell, like. And he was looking himself. And he'll move his torso and I'm like, oh, okay, you want the jacket to come in a little bit more. And so I step behind him and I'll. And I'll pull the jacket in and call the Taylor over. I was like, we should bring it in. And then he'd be like, oh, yeah, this.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, yeah, is baggage.

[Law Roach]

But you know him. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It's that New Orleans thing. He like. And so when I. So I was working for the. Oh, yeah, right. I was working for him to tell me I was doing something. I was doing it right. I live for that.

[Keke Palmer]

It makes me wonder, like, do you think now. Because, I mean, maybe it was different in the earlier years when you were just getting your name out there, but now it's like, you're law roach. Do you think when people are coming to work with you that they come in with an expectation of how it is to work with you?

[Law Roach]

Yeah, they want the best.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. They're just kind of like watching you do your thing.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, that's the. And that's why I was so disappointed when our situation happened. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's funny. It's funny to tell a story. People laugh at the story. Like, Kiki Palma fired me. But I would never let that go because I feel like, okay, I owe you a look. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, no disrespect to your stylist. You doing a great job, whoever it is. But no shade. That wasn't shady. If you here. But you know what I mean? It's just like, I really. Every time I can look, I know every time I messed up. You know what I mean? I know every person I messed up. I know every person I wasn't able to get it right for. Because when people come to me, they come expecting the best.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Law Roach]

Like, when you go to the best restaurant, you expect the best service, the best food. When you stay in the best hotel, you expect the best service, the best quality, everything. That's what you paying for? And you are disappointed when that's not delivered to you. And I'm disappointed that I wasn't able to give that to you.

[Keke Palmer]

You know that means we owe some Lux.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. And I just got so much integrity about what I do. You know what I mean? Like, that call, although it was funny, it cut deep. You see, I keep talking about it. I need you to say something. Like, what y' all feel? Let me be like, so how did you feel when I couldn't get it right?

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. How I felt was, you know, what if. What does this mean? Because again, we go way back. We go way back to the Gucci dress. That zipper broke, and I ended up wearing that bag on the carpet.

[Law Roach]

People said she was pregnant. And so this was my way to figure it out. That's too funny. Cause people said you were saying you was pregnant in the blogs. And then I came back and you.

[Keke Palmer]

Was pregnant, and it was still worse.

[Law Roach]

It's your fault.

[Keke Palmer]

For the first time for not being pregnant. For the second time for being pregnant.

[Law Roach]

That's your fault.

[Keke Palmer]

I just felt to myself, damn, is it everybody? I could not understand how we could have so much chemistry, like, in real life, and that chemistry would not be shown there. And so I don't. I feel like, yeah, there has to be something else, because we're meant to be together. You know what I mean? In some ways. So I just thought to myself, I don't get what. You know what I mean? Like, was this law sabotaging me?

[Law Roach]

It was. It was.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, what is this? What is this? This is not L. Roche.

[Law Roach]

You know, it was all. Everything was leading up to that retirement. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't too far after that.

[Keke Palmer]

Could be timing, too. But at the end of the day, does that mean anything about who you are? I mean, like, I never thought to myself that you weren't a brilliant star. I know. We.

[Law Roach]

You said. You make that very clear.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, that was very clear. I was just like, damn, is it just not right, the me in law, like, but maybe, you know, hey, we need to. You know, you're not retired anymore.

[Law Roach]

No, I owe you. I definitely owe you. I owe you a free one.

[Keke Palmer]

It's gotta be a good one. Y' all heard it first, kid. I mean, you've built a career out of method dressing, where character, story, and style align. How can everyday people do that? I think it's so. I mean, even though they're in their lives, sometimes it's hard to observe yourself. So how can they put Themselves in that seat and be able to experience the expression of themselves through clothing. Through clothing. Excuse me.

[Law Roach]

Well, I think it's. I think I wrote a really good book about it called how to build a fashion Outlet.

[Keke Palmer]

The book is incredible.

[Law Roach]

Thank you. And it's all about confidence. Like, it is all. All about confidence. And I think we started this conversation with me talking about my own confidence. But you have to. And in the book, I actually give action items to help build confidence. Right. And I think once you hit that. But once you hit that mark, the ultimate confidence is I don't give a. Right? It's like I don't give a. About what you think about what I'm doing, who I'm. What I'm eating, what I'm wearing. You know what I mean? And once you build yourself up to that point, then it's easy. But there's things that, there are things that you need to do to get that point right. It's like you might don't think you. You probably don't think you look good in green because your mama thought she didn't look good on green. In green. Right. So you have to kind of like break some curses.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

Cause a lot of stuff that we don't like about ourselves, we learn from other people. And once you take that back and really start to see yourself for who you are and what you are and the clothes are easy, right? The clothes become easy. You wear whatever the you wanna wear. Like, people always like, what should I'm. This shape. What should I wear? Whatever you feel pretty in. And let it be that. Because the feeling and the emotion that the clothes give you is what's important, right. Not what people on the outside think. And when you learn how to tune that out and dress for yourself and live for yourself, then you become a different type of person.

[Keke Palmer]

It's so interesting how all of it is so intrinsically tied to, you know, healing, processing, and being able to really just self express through self growth. I feel that personally for myself, my relationship with fashion changed so much after my baby. After everything that I processed, went through and understood about myself with my baby, the confidence that I got from having my son, it made it so much more fun and playful to express myself without giving any.

[Law Roach]

You don't give a.

[Keke Palmer]

So true.

[Law Roach]

And it's. And even like I said earlier, you not. We not always gonna get it right. Yeah, we're not always gonna get it right.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right. And having confidence in that, like it's a part. What did you say earlier? It's a part of the process.

[Law Roach]

It's part of the process. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, you know, I can't have the law roach on the show and not getting into a little style bag. So we're gonna play a game. I'm very excited.

[Law Roach]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

It's called. It's kind of throwing it back to your vintage days. It's called thrifted or shifted. And here's how it works. We're each gonna take turns pulling from a box, okay. And if we're filling it, we'll say thrift it and style it on ourselves. If it's not the vibe, we'll say shift it and give it to the other person to figure it out, which is so Shady boots.

[Law Roach]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Now, when we're out of pieces, we'll do a little fit check and shade each other's looks. Ready to go?

[Law Roach]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Are you ready, boo?

[Law Roach]

Yeah, let's go. Okay, Shift it.

[Keke Palmer]

This. Shift it.

[Law Roach]

I actually like this one better.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, it was a setup. Okay, here we go. What else we got? Ooh. Okay. This has a little pizzazz to it. This is a little pizzazz, chef. You see what's happening, girl, Y' all is playing games. This is definitely seeing this. This as well.

[Law Roach]

Okay, honestly, who put this box together? Your Silas?

[Keke Palmer]

Actually, this is all you had for me when we did our stylist. Ooh. This is all on the rack.

[Law Roach]

Yes, ma'. Am. Okay. Thrift it. Okay, so we'll keep those.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. I don't know about this. I'm gonna just make a pile of.

[Law Roach]

I hate she quick, ain't she? She came back to that response quick. That's kind of cute.

[Keke Palmer]

You keep me on my toes. That's not bad.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, I like that. I like it. I like it.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, well. Well, there's a couple of different ways I can go. You know what I'm saying?

[Law Roach]

Let me get that one.

[Keke Palmer]

I have options now. Okay? So the funny thing is, I know exactly the look I'm gonna make. I could make a look that feels very, like, upscale and kitschy, but actually, I'm gonna go something that feels very, like, chill, like mom on the day with her boo. Little boo boo baby.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

So I'm gonna take this T shirt, okay? This is like this little old vintage 2023 Arizona shirt, nice graphic tee. Feels like, you know, some hipster dips somebody in Brooklyn.

[Law Roach]

It says gay rodeo. That should be mine.

[Keke Palmer]

No, it's mine. I'm gay too, okay? You already know that law. So I have this. It's big, it's fly, and then Honestly, like I said, I'm going to give you, like, a niche vibe. I'm gonna take these big overalls.

[Law Roach]

It's very blossom.

[Keke Palmer]

It's very. You know what I mean? Very cute. The big hair with it. You know what I'm saying? It has these little flowers, colorful flowers on the bottom. I can cuff the little bottom, and I can even still keep the heel with it.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Then I'm going to add, just for kicks. Whoa. Okay, easy, easy. Just to give it a little more girlish flair, I have three bags here. I have one that's like a little, you know, big pocketbook. It's kind of cute. It could work with something. I like the little stuff on it. It's like, oh, my gosh. I got it from a trinket market, but it's a no for now. Then I have another, like, oh, it's Brandy Melville. I'm just hanging. I'm a teen.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, no, okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Love Brandy Melville, though.

[Law Roach]

She's cute, though. Cute is what she got on. Actually. She's cute. The ghost shoe.

[Keke Palmer]

It actually does go. She works very cool. Very. My grandma gave it to me before she passed.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Love this.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

So that's my look. Cross body. I would keep the heel on. This is me going to the pier with Leo.

[Law Roach]

Okay. So my look is. This is very me. So I'm gonna start with the oversized sweatpants. This is very me.

[Keke Palmer]

They're very oversized.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, very me. With the cowboy boots that I'm wearing.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, cute.

[Law Roach]

And I'm gonna put the tank. Right. And so then I'm doing this never drinking again because of my comment at the Met period about that girl in Zendaya's look.

[Keke Palmer]

T shirt.

[Law Roach]

Right. And then I'm going to.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, this is cute.

[Law Roach]

Put this little kind of like African kente clothes, something. Yes, I'm gonna put that with that. So you see the colors, guys? You see the colors?

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. So it's black tee, the tan collared shirt with the.

[Law Roach]

And then I'm. Put that on. You see how I'm playing in these colors? You see?

[Keke Palmer]

I really like that.

[Law Roach]

See, you see that?

[Keke Palmer]

Then we got the, like, zebra type chinchilla. Fake chinchilla.

[Law Roach]

See, look at the two patterns together. But they all in the same family. They're in these very warm. I mean, cool. I forgot one of them tones, the.

[Keke Palmer]

Ones that are nice to the eyes.

[Law Roach]

Right, right. So that's a look. And this, actually, I would definitely wear this and this for sure in my real life.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm not mad. I think we did pretty good.

[Law Roach]

I think we did pretty good too. Like, this is very chic.

[Keke Palmer]

Ooh, is this the show? Are we gonna go around town and shop vintage and put looks together with models and.

[Law Roach]

Let's do that.

[Keke Palmer]

Get into that. Is it thrifted or shifted? Stay tuned.

[Law Roach]

Listen.

[Keke Palmer]

It's the LA Kiki Show.

[Law Roach]

It's the LA Kiki show.

[Keke Palmer]

La. I love you so much.

[Law Roach]

It's the Leaky Show.

[Keke Palmer]

It's the Leaky Show.

[Law Roach]

I love you so much.

[Keke Palmer]

Thank you for coming.

[Law Roach]

Thanks for having me.

[Keke Palmer]

You're amazing. And I'm so glad you no longer retired. That was stressful.

[Law Roach]

Thank you.

[Keke Palmer]

That was LA Roach, y'.

[Law Roach]

All.

[Keke Palmer]

He's been killing the game for years. But he's not just building looks. He's building legacy. Beyond his undeniable talent and. And vision. He's a reminder that nothing in life has to be final. In fact, stepping away can be just as powerful as stepping up. It doesn't mean you're done. It just means you gotta do things your way. When the systems around you don't fit, build new ones. There is simply no one else on this planet who will fight for you the way you can. Whether you're on a red carpet or running errands, believe in yourself. Don't forget it. See you next week. Cause, baby, this is Keke Palmer. Baby. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah.