Durand Bernarr’s Slow Burn to a GRAMMY Win

Summary

Podcast Summary – Baby, This Is Keke Palmer Episode: Durand Bernarr’s Slow Burn to a GRAMMY Win
Release Date: March 10, 2026
Host: Keke Palmer
Guest: Durand Bernarr

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Episode Overview

This vibrant, laughter-filled episode features Durand Bernarr — genre-bending R&B artist, internet original, and recent Grammy winner. Keke Palmer guides a deep-dive conversation spanning Durand’s artistic journey, industry breakthroughs, identity, the enduring power of friendship and family, and the creative freedom that comes with being independent. Packed with comedic improv, personal wisdom, and meme-worthy moments, it’s a love letter to authenticity, creative perseverance, and the communities that sustain us.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Celebrating the Grammy Win: Reality and Reflection

• Durand’s Grammy win (Best Progressive R&B Album for Bloom) is a fresh “pinch-me” moment, but the fast pace of the industry can obscure the joy:
  • “I keep having these moments of realization that it’s a thing... because 48 hours after I won, I’m jumping right back into work…So it kind of feels like, okay, great, you won your little Grammy, what you about to do now?...I just want us to be able to revel in our accomplishments when they happen.” — Durand (08:24)
• Viral Moment: Durand’s meme-able “run to the stage” and reaction to social media aftermath (12:22).

2. The “Slow Burn” and Artistic Identity

• Durand’s path is a “slow burn”—gradual, steady, and rooted in authenticity:
  • “Of course you’re a slow burn. You’re the sun, not a match…All this stuff revolves around the sun but try to act like she don’t matter.” — (Dr. Wilson by way of Durand, 06:46)
• On industry recognition:
  • “...it’s always been burning. It’s a matter of how much material has been put into that flame…y’all are starting to feel the heat now. I’ve been hot.” — Durand (21:49)
• Navigating “Rising Star” labels and the tension between underground acclaim and mainstream acceptance.

3. Family, Upbringing & Musical Roots

• Durand’s musical household: father was a legendary sound engineer; mother, a vocal coach/musical director. Cousin Yanni is a notable producer.
  • “It was a loud house…the only time it was quiet is when we were not there.” — Durand (16:12)
• Value of parental support:
  • “My peak of life has been my parents, the support, the love that I have with them, how we have nurtured one another…Everything else that’s happened in life is a perk.” — Durand (14:43)
  • “How children treat their parents when they become adults is their report card.” — Durand (67:34)

4. Artistic Process & Integrity: Not Compromising for Success

• Staying true while commercial: Durand’s formula came via trial/error and mentorship, realizing catchiness doesn’t preclude depth.
  • “There is absolutely a way for you to be commercial and still be yourself…Once I got my own formula, that’s when we came up with Duran, with Stuck and Company.” — Durand (25:16)
• The role of jam sessions, church, theater, and collaboration in shaping his artistry (27:31).

5. Independence, Validation & Industry Realities

• Reflects on what being independent truly means—it’s not about rejecting support, but about building with what’s available and staying true at the core (31:15).
  • “As my creative director Mel says, we from the church will make it enough. Period. We be really making it enough.” — Durand (31:15)
• Importance of creative control vs. the real barriers of access and capital (32:01).

6. Queer Identity, Labels, and Openness

• Durand on reclaiming space for fluid identity in the industry:
  • “I say not straight because I don’t want to say gay because that would exclusifies me…That’s a word now. All these words is made up. Exclusifies.” — Durand (33:32)
  • Brings up gynosexual/androsexual as attraction to energy, not just gender (34:23).
• Sex positivity, ethical non-monogamy, and the need to shape one’s own definitions of love and connection (36:16).

7. Friendship, Love, and the Village

• Friendships as chosen family — and as inspiration for the Grammy-winning album Bloom:
  • “It is my open love letter to my friends that have become my family…Decenter the romantic love and talk about our support system, our tribe.” — Durand (11:12)
• The realness of Waiting to Exhale as an allegory for friendship and exhaling together (43:44).

8. Commentary on Gender, Masculinity & Community Healing

• On masculinity’s failings:
  • “Men aren’t necessarily taught how to be men. They’re just taught how not to be like girls.” — Durand (52:37)
  • “Straightness is actually some of the gayest shit you could ever participate in…” — Durand (53:31)
• Keke and Durand dream about building more real-life, supportive, IRL community and destigmatizing “cringe” vulnerability (54:17).

9. The Internet Era, Erykah Badu, and Evolving Performance

• Durand’s OG YouTube days—using the platform for covers/comedy and how that led to connecting with Erykah Badu (56:04).
• Working with Badu:
  • “She’s been a mentor and a big sister. I’ve been able to accumulate things and take notes…studio is about perfecting a moment. Live is when you’re creating the moment moment.” — Durand (61:04)

10. Humor, Multidisciplinarity & Future Projects

• The role of comedy in music and live performance; festival appearances (Netflix is a Joke); plans to push creative boundaries with storytelling and character work (65:31).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments by Timestamp

• On Identity & Freedom:
  • “I woke up still Black and not straight. Glory.” - Durand (02:57)
• On Success:
  • “Me counting myself out is the reason why I ran down that aisle…” - Durand on his viral Grammy moment (09:40)
• On Friendships:
  • “My friends are tired. Their shoulders have seen so many different versions of tears.” - Keke (11:28)
• On Creativity:
  • “Music took me serious before I did.” - Durand (17:24)
• On Growth:
  • “I’m a recovering perfectionist.” - Durand (02:10)
• On Love:
  • “I love who loves me.” - Keke (33:04)
• On Industry Reception:
  • “Better late than never… y'all are about to get cooked.” - Durand (22:14)
• On Internet Breakthroughs:
  • “Let’s see what the Internet got to say about this, ‘cause they don’t care about your feelings.” - Durand (56:38)
• On Legacy:
  • “I needed people to see. This is the result of your parents loving your children, not trying to write their story, but read their story.” - Durand (67:34)
• On Joy as Resistance:
  • “Do you know that your joy is feeding people? It is feeding people in the Congo. It’s feeding people in Sudan…your joy within yourself is being a light in a very dark time.” - Durand (Jennifer Lewis, 73:06)
• On Community:
  • “We gotta get IRL. We gotta get off the app.” - Keke (54:17)

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Fun Segments & Improv

• Nursery Rhyme Remix Game (69:02):
  • Keke and Durand improvise nursery rhymes in various styles (pop-punk “Itsy Bitsy Spider”; R&B “Old MacDonald”; operatic “ABC’s”). Hilarious, musically inventive, and brings out their artistry and shared sense of humor.

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Takeaways & Episode Impact

• Durand Bernarr’s story is one of patient growth, creative persistence, and radical authenticity.
• Friendship and family are positioned as foundational, not optional, to his journey.
• The episode models introspective, vulnerable conversation while keeping a light, playful energy.
• Cultural critique: Both Keke and Durand thoughtfully question industry norms, identity politics, and the pressures of public life.
• Listeners are affirmed in their own “slow burns”—invited to resist compromise, to revel in “cringe” joy, and to believe that being themselves is always enough.

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For Fans Old and New: If you haven’t pressed play: listen for the honesty, the affirmations, and the unmatched vocal runs. If you’re an early fan? This is a victory lap—and a reminder that loving loudly, and on your own terms, will eventually change the world.

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Follow Durand Bernarr:
IG: @durandbernarr
Stream Bloom & past projects
Catch him performing live at [Netflix is a Joke Festival]

Follow @kekepalmerpodcast for more, and join the convo!

Transcript

[A]

Today's guest is a true original, an artist with unreal vocals, undeniable presence, and a level of authenticity you can feel. He started on YouTube, caught the attention of the one and only Erykah Badu, and in case you missed it, he just won his first Grammy. It feels like the rest of the world is finally catching up to what the fans have always known for a long time. Duran Bernard. Is it honey? So let's not waste another minute. Cause baby, this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doing in the car, Just chilling pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all, especially the bad. Cause money's always evolved. No matter what it is, we gonna make it make sense. Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and king. So grab you a drink and a snack, you enjoy. And get into the vibe that only ones you know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby. This is Kiki Palma. Yeah. Please welcome Duran Bernard.

[B]

Yes. I got all this ass, child, now I gotta back it up.

[A]

How are you?

[B]

How are you?

[A]

I'm so good. It's so good to see you, boo.

[B]

Listen, I'm trying to get like you when I grow up. You look gorgeous.

[A]

You know what's so funny? When I'm like, oh, my gosh, we're gonna get Duran. I'm so happy. We're basically the same person.

[B]

I know. They're like, we haven't seen them in the same room, so we had to just, you know, clear that up.

[A]

How are you feeling good today? Feeling great.

[B]

I feel awake.

[A]

I know. That's fine.

[B]

I feel rested, actually. Rested?

[A]

Well, I'm happy that you did these pre show pull up questions because now I get to get into your mind just a little bit before we get into our convo. Obviously, your name's Duran. The Bernard zodiac sign. NDA.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Now, what does this mean? You don't tell nobody a zodiac?

[B]

I mean, you know, my birthday's September 16th, but, you know, I don't give a damn about that.

[A]

I thought you a Virgo.

[B]

I don't give a damn about that. All them toe ring heifers, you know, they be trying to figure out, well, what's your birth chart so I can find out why you breathe the way you do? Like, if you don't go out and touch some girls.

[A]

First of all, you are so Virgo. Literally, that makes total sense for everything about how you execute stuff. We are perfectionists. September 16th is one of my best friend's birthdays, by the way. Taylor Parks. Hey.

[B]

Taylor Parks. So I just want to say I'm a recovering perfectionist. I have actually.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Cause it's just. At what point is it ever good enough? Is it ever going to, like, we just keep going at the same thing over and over and we're trying to.

[A]

It's like, what are the standards? That part of it too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That it can drive you crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Do you know your big three. Initial here, signature here, date there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm loving this resistance to the sign thing because it does sometimes, as a person that loves the zodiac, it can sometimes stop the opportunity to just get to know.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

In real time. Like, how did you come up to these conclusions so fast about me?

[B]

You know that part.

[A]

You can do that. I. Okay. So what are you most grateful for today? I woke up still black and not straight.

[B]

Glory,

[A]

period. Not straight.

[B]

See, straight is a construct. Just like, you know, whiteness. See, they're sisters. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I just woke up feeling like myself, you know?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And of course you know. Yes. It's just.

[A]

You do look good. That's what I got from this. Also still fine.

[B]

Still fine.

[A]

Okay. A relationship or friendship, non negotiable for you. Lying and stealing.

[B]

Come on now.

[A]

The stealing is so crazy because. Why would you do that?

[B]

Because if you can lie, you can steal. And if you can steal, you can lie.

[A]

It's so true. Because in order to steal, you had

[B]

to lie that part.

[A]

Okay, what is. What's a question? You wish you were asking more interviews. Okay, actually, I've been asked enough questions. However, I love a that made me think question.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, those are hard to do.

[B]

I know the.

[A]

That made me think. That's when you get like real esoteric or real, like, what do you believe are aliens true?

[B]

Or just get you some open ended question card games? Like, that's. Listen, there's a cheat code.

[A]

Are you one of those you do games with your friends, like have game parties and y' all do like, what is the question game there? Like cards of humanity.

[B]

Cards of humanity. I do cards of humanity. Not spades, though. Spades is.

[A]

So you don't like to argue.

[B]

It's not that I don't like to argue, it's just. I don't know, Cleveland. I don't know.

[A]

How does it like to play spades?

[B]

I don't know how to play spades cause no one taught me. And so now I'm too far, too far ahead. I feel like I was able to get into anime as an adult, but spades, I'm too.

[A]

Do you know Raven Simone personally?

[B]

No. No, I don't.

[A]

You guys would get along so well. She's really killer at spades. I'm seeing me and you at the crib. She's teaching you how to play spades, I'm teaching you how to play spades. And we gonna just be spades fathers.

[B]

I mean, I guess I can, if any. If there was gonna be anyone that could teach me to do anything, I would trust black women to guide me in the right direction.

[A]

We love that. Okay. Who is someone that you met that made you feel starstruck? I really relate to this. I mean, the Jennifer Lewis, I. I

[B]

have not reacted to any other person ever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, even the very first time that I encountered her, I was at Essence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's all this loud music and everything. But I saw her and I'm tapping my publicist like, oh, my God, there's Jennifer. Do something. Do something. So of course, that was not. That was not the.

[A]

Do something. Gave me life.

[B]

Do something.

[A]

That is so true.

[B]

No, we. But we had our actual moment. She surprised me at my. At the closing of my tour. Oh, my God. At the El Rey. And I. When I tell you my inner child popped out.

[A]

What is your first thing that you could remember of Jennifer Lewis? Cause I was thinking about that the other day. Cause I'm a huge fan of hers. But then I was like, I don't know what the first thing I saw of her was, because I just always knew her in my world.

[B]

I think my origins for Jennifer Lewis would have to be what's love got to do with it?

[A]

That's probably the one for all of us. She's that mean ass mama.

[B]

Yes. These pearls is getting a little tight around my neck, girl. That's probably all them chitlins you was eating, baby. That.

[A]

Oh, my God. I love a line game. I love a. What movie is that from? Okay. What's a mantra you live by and why? Of course. You're a slow burn. You're the son. Not a watch.

[B]

Not a match.

[A]

Not a match. Sorry, child, my reading was off. Now. Who is Dr. Wilson? Boo.

[B]

Dr. Wilson is a friend of mine that I've known since my teen years. We're actually on year 20 or 21 of being in each other's lives. So. Yeah, he's a doctor now also. Well, two degrees, so a doctor and a. And a PhD, so. And I have a Grammy, so it's just like we are in our fields really killing it. But that is someone that I absolutely look up to and just value their opinion because.

[A]

And they said this to you when

[B]

this was maybe 2016. Ish. When I was right around before I put out the soundcheck ep and I was wondering, what do I need to do to really get my foot in the door?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Do I need to change myself? Do I? It's being a slow burn. He was like, well, baby, of course you're a slow burn. You're the son, not a. And also, when you think about the makeup of our galaxy, all this stuff revolves around the sun.

[A]

But try to act like she don't matter.

[B]

That part.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That part. Cause she'll set some up in here.

[A]

Okay. Okay. I love that shout out to Dr. Wilson. And you mentioned 2016, and that makes me have to bring up this picture of us. Child. I remember this moment that we had met. I feel like we both was with our moms. I don't know who.

[B]

Yes. I was with my mom.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

That was when I first moved out there. We were at Aroma Cafe in Studio City. You were just so sweet. You was like, of course we could take a picture. And I think that might have been either before or after I did remember that. Remember your television show that you had? And we had the choir come in. I was in the choir.

[A]

Yep. The Just Keke. Was this just Kiki.

[B]

This was in 2016.

[A]

2016. So it must have been. My God.

[B]

They gave you a talk show.

[A]

It was what it was. Yeah. That's crazy, because that's why I was also. When I was looking at this picture, I was thinking to myself, this was also not the first time we met. We had met briefly before then. And then this is when I started being able to put a face to you and being like. And then I started seeing you everywhere, you know, and I was just like, yeah, I like that, dude. And we all do. So we're here today, and I'm so happy to kick back and talk with you, babe, because congratulations are in order. You are a Grammy winner. And this is so obvious. Like, I mean, I don't think that any of us are surprised, but it's always good to just, you know, be able to sit that up on the mantelpiece. How are you feeling? What is the energy giving?

[B]

The energy is. I keep having these moments of realization that it's a thing.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Because 48 hours after I won, I'm jumping right back into work. So it's very little time for me to actually sit and revel in some things that have taken place. Cause we're already moving to. We have to work on this. We have to get that together. And the thing about asking, like, what's next? When it hasn't even been engraved yet, and we're already moving on to the next thing. So it kind of feels like, okay, okay, great. You won your little Grammy. What you about to do now? And I just want us to be able to revel in our accomplishments when they happen so that it's not this vague memory that we have later on down the line.

[A]

Yeah, of course. I mean. So take me to the night. Did you think you were going to. Because you were nominated for En Route in the same category the year prior, and then with Bloom, the album that you won for, we got three nominations. Best progressive R and B album. Three nominations. I mean, did you expect to win any of them? I mean, I know that's a crazy question, but you. You're confident, and, you know, you're you. So, I mean, did you think, hey, I'm about to take it home, or were you kind of nervous and apprehensive? Sis, Sis.

[B]

Me. Me counting myself out is the reason why I ran down that aisle, because I sat all the way in the back. I'm like, let me just be by the exit so when they do not call my name, I can just skedaddle. Because last time I was sitting a little further up toward the stage, so I had to do that long walk, and I was wearing white, so you couldn't miss me. So I was like, mm, y' all gonna get me. Like last time, I'm just gone. So when they called my name, I'm thinking when he said Bloom, I'm thinking he said, blough. So I was like, okay. Oh, geez. He done did some work behind the scenes. Okay.

[A]

Jesus is crazy, ma'.

[B]

Am. And so when they said Blue Duran Bernard, I said, oh, no, that's me, that's me, that's me. And so I had to run down there, and I had a mule on. There was no support on this heel, so I had to. My toes was hanging. All right. Gripping. Please don't.

[A]

But, yeah, I mean, so did you think. I mean, when think about En Route, even just the name of it, and then we have Bloom. I mean, those go perfectly together in the conversation that you were maybe having with yourself. Do you feel like the album, the Bloom, that it matches that win, that it represents this era in your life?

[B]

I think if. I think it's a beautiful project to have gotten this kind of acknowledgement, because it is my open love letter. To my friends that have become my family. And, you know, my publicist was, you know, when we were talking about content for new albums, he was like, I think it's time for the love album.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so. But what is my approach to love? I know everybody wants to talk about relationships. I know you did me wrong. I mean, you coming back and girl, this, that, and the third. But what. But what about the relationship with our friends? They have seen their shoulders, have seen so many different versions of tears.

[A]

Okay. My friends are tired.

[B]

Yes. No, seriously. So I needed to acknowledge that and lift that up decenter, the romantic love and talk about our support system, our tribe. And so the fact that that garnered that kind of attention. Thank y'. All. I just. The support system is so key.

[A]

I love that. I love that. Congratulations again. And let's talk about the category, because we hear a lot of different feedback that artists feel with the Grammys in their categories. You have an eclectic sound. This is progressive R and B. How do you feel like that category defined you, if at all progressive, I

[B]

would say, is right up there with what I'm doing, because it is progressing. It is constantly progressing. I always wanna try new things. I always wanna incorporate all of my influences into the work.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I think being progressive, I feel like that fit perfectly.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That run up to the stage, I mean, it was crazy viral. What were the comments? If you looked at any of them that were gagging you.

[B]

Okay, okay. So the first one was. My publicist was the one that was running after me, by the way, Sean Englund. So I had forgotten where I put my written speech. And so I was just going to my phone to get the notes, and he's like, no, no, no, you wrote this. Like, here, here, get this. So people were saying two things that I was trying to take a selfie from the stage to show everybody that I won. That was the first one. The other one was I was hurrying up trying to change all of my bios to Grammy award winning. So it's just Keith. I'm so glad that I'm on this side of social media when it comes to virality, because you, ma', am, are queen of memeification. So. So for me to be in the number of. Oh, you might have broken Cynthia Rivo's record for the most memeable things in one night. I'm like, oh, I'm up there, Cynthia, with this here, baby.

[A]

This is my lifeline. Or the.

[B]

Or the.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Whoa, whoa.

[A]

That's my lifeline.

[B]

I'm thinking, I'm thinking,

[A]

oh, my God.

[B]

Shout out to Cynthia, we love you.

[A]

Shout out to Cynthia, we love you. She could sing the house down. Okay, so let's talk about the craziest thing that's happened the last few weeks. I know that you said that people are like, what's next? What's happening with you? But let's talk about the congratulations. What dms, what experiences have. Have happened, if any, that you feel like have prompted from people seeing you on this stage because you've been killing it for a while. But it's always different. For whatever reason, when these institutions come out and be like, yo, they the one, Even though you already knew they were the one.

[B]

Yeah. It's one thing to know that you're amazing. It's another thing when the world realizes that that can be a little. Oof. But I think the thing that is the most gratifying out of all of this is the fact that my parents are still here to see this. And my parents are boomers, so they're older parents. My mom was 41 when she had me, so they said it was a geriatric pregnancy. The shade.

[A]

The shade of it.

[B]

All of it all. And I'm her one. I'm her. Her one and only. So I was always curious about what accomplishments or what things in my life would they. Would I be able to share with them in this realm? And so for them to be present,

[A]

I love in this realm, in this realm, I swear, with you there.

[B]

Oh, yeah. For them to be. To physically be there, specifically, like my mother, it's just, I. I've always said that my peak of life has been my parents, the support, the love that I have with them, how we have nurtured one another. We have really been a team. Like, the tripod is a real thing. So I. Everything else that's happened in life is a perk. It is the cherry on top. But they are my. They are my foundation, babe.

[A]

When I tell you I could not relate to you harder. The love of parents, of their support, of them seeing you for who you are, never trying to, but just championing you for being who you are. I hate to say I didn't realize how rare it was to some degree.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Till I got older and I realized, okay, everybody didn't have that with their. And also, we did nothing to necessarily deserve it. Like, it's like I was just born to that.

[B]

I was just born to this.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's just what happened. And so honoring them and always calling that out I think is so huge, because I definitely feel like it's the whole entire reason I am who I am today. Well, let's get into also the fact that your parents are really gifted and talented as well. I mean, your dad was, like, a sound engineer who worked with Earth, Wind and Fire, Whitney Houston, Jill Scott, Eminem, and then your mom's a vocal coach and a music. A church music director. So what was it like growing up and getting the influences of their world?

[B]

It was a loud house. The house was loud. There was never a quiet. The only time it was quiet is when we were not there.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That is the only time that house was.

[A]

That's life.

[B]

And I love that because, you know, dad played bass, you know mom plays piano. We're all like. There's instrumentation, and not just us, but there's other people. Like my cousin Yanni. What up, Yanni? Yes. He produced say Ah by Trey Songz. Yes. That Yann.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Not say Ah. Ah.

[B]

Yes. All the. All the. I mean, shoot, Missy Elliott. He's done stuff with Maya Lil Way. I mean.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. You're talking about Yanni?

[B]

Yes. That's my blood cousin. My father.

[A]

You know that Yanni produced so many songs on my EP. What, back in, like, 2013. I mean, we did a bunch of stuff, him and Aja, who was also on, you know, Issa Rae'. Rap.

[B]

Rap.

[A]

I mean, we was all in the studio for a whole summer. I didn't know that Yanni was your cousin, man.

[B]

My cousin.

[A]

That's crazy. Good people.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. Shout out to Yannick.

[A]

Mm, that's fire. Okay, so looking back growing up, when did you feel that this was also going to be your career? Because also. I mean, just because your parents did it, it didn't mean that you had to follow in their footsteps. Was there a moment where you thought, oh, maybe I'm gonna do something different? Or were you always like, I'm gonna be an entertainer?

[B]

I always say that music took me serious before I did. It was always in the curriculum. Cause not only was my mother a music teacher, but she was like. She taught in public schools. So, okay, 20 years before I came along. So she had a different level of patience. I've heard that people who wait until later on in life to have children, they have a different level of patience.

[A]

Yes. I feel like it makes total sense.

[B]

Cause they're not trying to discover themselves. You know, music has always been implemented even into the lessons, you know, of what I'm doing. She was teaching me how to do the days of the week and months of the year and all that into jingles, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60. I can count by fives. Just little.

[A]

You need the Kids album.

[B]

You need the Kids album.

[A]

You think I'm playing?

[B]

Oh, no, I've been. There are so many things. Maybe I need to do it. It could be an ep.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. For the kids. They need this.

[B]

Yeah. Those are actually children and elders are probably some of my favorite audience members because they have no filter. Like, if they like you, that means they like you.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

So. Yes.

[A]

So, you know, it was always there for you.

[B]

It was always there. It was probably around 12 when I was. When I had a solo. When I had a solo in church. I believe I can fly. That's what I was singing. Lord, listen, we all. At some point. It's an inspirational song, that part. And I had my, you know, I hit my note at the end and the folks was going, you know, crazy in their pews. Somebody ran up and down the aisle.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I was like, okay. I was like this. Because of this. Got it. And then 16 is when my dad brought me on the road with Earth, Wind and Fire as a production assistant.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

So I was able to actually see the process of how the show is put together.

[A]

What was it like looking at Earth Wind and fired him. That's crazy, babe.

[B]

See what's crazy? See, the part is I never got a chance to view them from outside.

[A]

You knew them as fan.

[B]

It's always been my uncles, you know, so. But still, they're amazing.

[A]

Yes, of course.

[B]

But it's like I. The struckness of it is, you know,

[A]

they're family to you. But I mean, it shows those influences, you having those. Not everybody can say that those are their family members, but it makes sense because your music has the. The same sense of soul, integrity and intentionality. But it's just amazing just to imagine a young Duran up on there running through there like that.

[B]

Listen, from seeing folks warming up before the show, stretching, tuning up their instruments. If the show started at 8 o', clock, everybody was in place at 7. 59. 59.

[A]

I love the professionalism.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Now, Tony Bullock ran a tight ship.

[A]

I love that. What is something that you think people wouldn't maybe not even realize, but that is so imperative that you learned back then that you still keep with you now.

[B]

Your work ethic will definitely precede you. How you treat people, how you show up like that. People talk. And so I always pride myself to make sure that I am a conducting an environment where everyone feels safe and seen.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't ever want to feel like nobody can tell me anything. So that's why I trust the people that, you know, we put in place to be the eyes that I, you know, in the back of my head,

[A]

uh, I think I did it.

[B]

You did it. You did it. You gave me the suit.

[A]

I got you the suit. Yes. I love a. Hmm. That made me think.

[B]

Question. Yes. No. We are worth it.

[A]

I nailed it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you've been. You've been working in the industry for 20 plus years. 20 plus 20 plus years. That's a long time. But then recently, February 2026, you were called a rising star at R and B. And whenever I see this with artists such as yourself, I always think about Luther Vandross. And even people said the same thing with me. Wow, this is really your time. And it's like, you know, it happens a lot.

[B]

That statement is quite. It's quite interesting.

[A]

I think about Luther Vandross as. I don't know who he was interviewing with, but they were like, how does it feel? And he was like, well, white America has woken up to me. But, I mean, you know, my folks have always known me. So I pose it back to you. Like, when you see Rising Star, do you feel any way about it? Is it kind of okay, that's just, like, the institution. That's just, like, how it is or, you know, what your feedback when you see that.

[B]

Well, again, going back to the quote, we're a slow burn. Like, it's always been burning. It's a matter of how much material has been put into that flame to make it ignite. But it's always been burning. So it's just a matter of. Y' all are starting to feel the heat now.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Y' all are feeling the heat. I've been hot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Y' all are just now feeling the heat. So it's fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whenever you listen, better late than never.

[A]

Okay. Cause you're about to get cooked. That part so fried like an egg. Okay.

[B]

Baked.

[A]

Was there ever a moment, though, looking back, and you kind of mentioned it now, too, when we were talking about that 2016, and you had that conversation with Dr. Wilson where you did think, okay, what is it gonna take for me to get there and, you know, wrestling with what it could look like to, you know, compromise or change even before you even knew what exactly you were trying to say or be. And even moreover, how did you Stop yourself from leaning into what so many do. Well, baby, this is icy Palma. Yeah, you know your girl loves to travel. Some of my favorite trips have been with my fam to far off places like Rome. But this spring we're eyeing a more local spot like South Carolina because our non negotiables are delicious food and a beach where we can have fun but also get some much needed rnr. And when I'm planning where we're going to stay, I'm not only thinking about logistics like where is everyone going to sleep, but also how can I really experience the place I'm visiting. That's why I book a stay on Airbnb for family trips. We get to stay in neighborhoods where locals actually live and really connect with the city through authentic experiences. Plus, everyone can spread out with separate bedrooms like my son's Bedtime doesn't have to be my bedtime. And we've got a real kitchen to cook some meals together if we end up staying in. It's also way more cost effective than booking multiple hotel rooms. We all get our own space, but still come together to create those genuine memories for that kind of trip. Hotels just don't give us what we need. Find a home for your next family Adventure on Airbnb. Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Okay, so I have a question. Have you been sitting on a dream? You know the impact you want to make, but life keeps getting in the way. Here's the thing. Walden University has been helping people just like you turn those dreams into reality for over 50 years. When I say get the W, I mean getting those wins that move you forward in your career and your community. What really stands out? Walden's tempo? Learning. You move at your speed. No stressing about weekly deadlines or rigid schedules. You're building toward your degree on your timeline, and that's available in select programs. Plus, you're learning from people who've actually done the work. Scholars and practitioners who bring real experience. I'm talking 94% with doctoral degrees ready to share what they know. So if you've been telling yourself maybe someday, let me tell you, today is that day. Head to waldenu. Edu and get started. Walden University set a course for change. Certified to operate by Shev.

[B]

I was having a conversation with a homie who was doing background for Gladys Knight, who I call Bravery. His name is A Vere, and I was just venting to him. He came over to my apartment out in LA at the time and I was just venting him about. Yeah, I think I just gotta. Just not be myself so I can at least get my foot in the door. You know, we gotta feed the beast somehow, some kind of way. And he was like, please do not make me take this part of my hand and go across your face. Cause there's no way that you need to compromise yourself. There is absolutely a way for you to be commercial and still be yourself. And so I'm playing him some songs that I did. Cause, mind you, I was always recording by myself. I would get sent the tracks, I would work on my own, send it back to the producer. Oh, this is tight and everything. Yeah, because I'm singing. But the catchiness, the recipe I hadn't quite got. So when Avere was listening to the stuff, he said, okay, I mean, your voice sounds beautiful, but these melodies, they're just. I don't know what you're trying to do right now. Like, this is just. No. And so we started working together on Fly on the Wall, which was on the Soundcheck ep. And I was about to repeat the hook. He said, no, no, let's go somewhere different. Let's do something like that. And so once I realized, oh, that's what the recipe is. Something catchy, something that everybody can sing along to. Something that is a. You know, that's. That's. That's an earworm. And so once I got my own formula, then that's when we came up with Duran, with Stuck and Company. And, you know, so I. I got it now.

[A]

And I mean, that's. I feel like everybody has to find their own formula on their own way. Yeah, but what are those touch points like? For me, it was. I've always been into diversifying. You know, that's always helped me to a. To sustain, you know, we had to have multiple jobs because we gotta feed the investment, you know, and that would always teach me something new about myself. It would help me to find what made me, Keke Palmer, the one that people know today. For Duran, what was that process? Like? Did it look like going to certain clubs, you know, or going and listening to Mike Knight or going and doing, like, what were those things that helped you to get those creative juices flowing, to be able to concentrate that sound and find that formula?

[B]

So I was definitely going to jam sessions. And also, we can't negate my artist development from church and theater.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

So we have. We have a lot of groundwork that was taking place before we even got to figure out what this looks like and what it sounds like. So jam sessions locally In Cleveland. And then I would go to different places, like out in dc, Shout out to Bohemian Caverns and Lorna Pinckney. I would go there for, you know, just to get your feet wet in these different markets. And also collaborating with other people, like, it's not something that, as I said, if I don't have to do it alone, I don't want to do it alone. Creating and music is like a really vast playground. And while I can rip and run on the monkey bars and go down the slide by myself, it's so much better when you have someone there or other people there that have just as much as imagination as you do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also I would like to shout out to you for not gatekeeping, like, when you were talking about, like, how do I. Someone was asking you in an interview about how did you get certain things, in a way, and you were just breaking it down like, well, actually, this is what I did. I put it into my own production. I did this and that. So I want to thank you for being that, because I like to spread whatever wherewithal I can to help someone, because you never know what that could do. And it's not necessarily saying this is what's going to get you in the door, but this is how I did it. This is my template. Take what works.

[A]

Yeah. And I think it's important for people like us to do that because we do move pretty much independently. Even when I collaborate with major companies, I'm sure you feel the same way. It's still very much, this is me doing that. And I think it's important that people understand that there's a way to sustain and have success. That way you might not always get whatever the attention you think you need, but at the end of the day, the cream rises to the top. What's true is going to always be true. How has your relationship with Validation evolved over the years from what you thought you. You would need or what made sense to having so much of it, you know, and how that impacts what you think of it.

[B]

I think the most validating part right now is the fact that I'm where I am because I'm myself. I've genuinely been able to be myself. And there are updated versions of that, but at the core, I am myself. I feel inside of myself, you know, and again, I just. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just so glad. Like, it doesn't even feel like a 9 to 5. And I'm pretty sure that you can. But our careers are also our children. Yes, baby, it is a whole Child. Sometimes it's a toddler, Sometimes it's a teenager. Sometimes, like, it varies in age. Okay.

[A]

Sometimes it's, like, crazy. Sometimes she's cool. It's a lot. But it's my heart, and I really do. I love that you put it as a child, because it's like. Yeah. Like, it's really what I care about. It's really what drives me and what I love. And just. It brings me so much joy to be able to. I don't know. I guess this is what a typical artist would say and feel, to be able to externalize my inside world in this way. It really is just like, that's freedom. You recently said, not only am I still independent, but I'm black, I'm not straight, I'm not unclockable, and I'm still singing the house down on my worst day. I just live for you. You know what I mean? Because I feel that this is also me.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

I'm also identifying with every single thing you said.

[B]

Agree. Agree. This is me. Yes.

[A]

Yes, agree. I mean, how has being an independent artist been able to solidify that path for you?

[B]

I just want to start out by saying that when I emphasize that I'm independent, that is not me in any way saying, I don't need help. I don't need support. I'm just making sure that, you know, that I've gotten to this point with what I have. We're. As my creative director Mel says, we from the church will make it enough, Period. We be really making it enough. So. So just imagine what. What I could accomplish if I had a little. Just a little change. You know what I'm saying? Just a.

[A]

You know, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, people don't really. I guess we do think about it, but, like, capital is a real thing. Like, money is a real thing. A lot of times it's like. And it's not just, like, what I'm wearing. It's like the push.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's the pr.

[B]

It's the marketing.

[A]

Marketing. It's the venue. It's all of money, essentially. It truly is access in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, I feel you when it comes to independence. Like, I still move like a mom and pop as well. I have a lot of collaborators, different people that work with me, but at the core of what my brand is as well is. And I think the reason why is because it allows for me to make sure that it remains true.

[B]

Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I do think, like, I'm not Trying to shout out to the zodiac. But as Virgos, that's big for us. We, you know, a lot of people want to get in and y' all want to fuss around with it. I want it to, like, I'm not afraid to collaborate and to expand on it, but I have to make sure that the core is being honored.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You know, that's like, so huge. I also love that you say not straight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I remember I did an interview with Wendy Williams. Like, I was like, I don't know, 20.

[B]

Why, girl? Because the gag was. She wasn't there.

[A]

That one too. Me and Wendy have had some moments. Listen, child, she done had. We done had some talks, okay? And she was like, so are you fluid? Are you this? Are you that? And I'm like, I'm just me. You know what I mean?

[B]

You love who loves you.

[A]

I love who.

[B]

You know, I was there. I'm right there. Listen, we on the same team.

[A]

We the same. And so, like, I'm so interested for you. What does. How do people respond to you with that? Because I don't get great responses. Like, not to say that people are like, mad, but people just want to know what's going on. And it's like, me too, babe. I'm just.

[B]

Okay, okay. I'm still learning right along with you. And learning does not mean connection.

[A]

No.

[B]

There's a quote that says that all that who wander are not lost. I'm literally wandering. I'm just taking in the scenery. I'm taking in how I'm reacting to things and what works and what does not. I say not straight because I don't want to say gay because that would exclusifies me. That's a word now.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Exclusifies me. Cause y' all know what it mean. All these words is made up. That would exclusifies. That's true me to one way of expressing myself, one way of intimately communing. And that's not the case because if Tiana tried me,

[A]

anybody's going any.

[B]

Yeah, I'm saying, you know, it's. It's the. It's the energy. I don't know if you're familiar with it.

[A]

It's the energy.

[B]

I don't know if you're familiar with the term. Is it like gynosexual and androsexual?

[A]

No. Please put me on to it.

[B]

So I hope I'm pronouncing the first one right. So gynosexual is when you are attracted to femininity or feminine presenting people. Androsexual is when you are attracted to masculine energy or masculine presenting people. So that could be in the form of anything. It's about the energy.

[A]

Yeah, I definitely feel you on that because I feel like I've always liked that feminine energy. It doesn't matter who it, you know, it doesn't mean that that person is totally flamboyant or not. But it's femininity is by so much more than just like hey girl.

[B]

Yeah. No, it's a softness. It's a earnestness. It's a awareness.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's a consideration. It's the flora and fauna. It's the oxygen that we breathe. That's why it's called mother Nature, okay? Cause what a man finna do be

[A]

up there, hold it to give you some structure. But we still need some softness, child.

[B]

In the most they laughed in the backstructured beings trying to lead somebody somewhere. Men are not meant to lead. Sorry, I not even sorry. They are not meant to lead.

[A]

I'm howling.

[B]

They are not. And as a man, I'm saying we are not meant to lead.

[A]

On the Terray show, you said I'm sex positive, ethically non monogamous. So I still desire to have meaningful experiences with other people from time to time while still leaving room for exclusivity. Also, again, sounds like me. I live for the freedom and the independence and that doesn't mean disrespect or disregard from anybody. I think people gotta know that at the end of the day, every relationship, every combination of love or relationship, it doesn't have to exist a certain set of rules in order to be true and to be loving.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

What does the practice look like for you? I don't even know if you're dating currently or if you closed off now.

[B]

There's someone there.

[A]

Oh, there's someone there.

[B]

There's someone there.

[A]

There's someone.

[B]

But we, you know, we. It's. That's just. That's for me, you know, period. Cause you know, I already give enough of myself, you know, so it's just. And this is. Yeah, I'm enjoying that. So Durant is happy. I'm, you know, in the loving space.

[A]

How did you manage the time in your life? Cause I find it hard, you know, I find it really, really hard. Even as somebody that's single and dating and open, I find it hard to just be like, oh, worked all day, now I have a dinner with you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

No, seriously, after a 10 hour day, you're not trying to do anything. You Know, I don't wanna talk. Why are we talk? We can do body doubling.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

You read a book. I'm gonna check. I'm gonna be over here watching anime. Just be in the same room. But we ain't gotta talk talk.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Sometimes in order to be in a relationship, you have to give, you know, I mean, I think that way. I don't think you should be just taking. And so. Yeah. With our careers, I feel like a lot of times it can be difficult to even save space. To have energy to give to that when we are always giving to our baby.

[B]

Okay. So one thing I will say, it's important for whoever is involved in this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To have an awareness and understanding. Not know why you always on set, why you always sit. Mm, mm, mm, mm. That's. That's. So there has to be an automatic understanding. Um, I'm also okay with you not being even in my world as far as like work. You can do something complete 180 of what I'm doing. And so when we come together, I can hear about, you know, your. The medical stuff that you got going on or the aviation or whatever, you know, saying. And I of kind, I can have my music over here. So it's good to have that. I think when also when you are especially like, let's say if it's distance, you know.

[A]

Yeah, done a couple of those.

[B]

Yeah. You have to find time to, you know, the quality time and the, you know, FaceTime. Whether that just to communicate, just to know like, hey, I'm here or you know, I'm moving from this place to next place, you know, so it's. I think when you at least have the communication, then there's no room for the imagination to kind of start dragging you down the street. Because my imagination is a bright place, but it can also get very dark canted. Oh my goodness. You saw the sale.

[A]

You saw the sale. Crazy.

[B]

So yeah. But it's about. And also I feel like I'm in a space where I do have room to offer that. Cause I'm also sure. Cause I mean, I'm loving my friends, you know, I'm loving my. You know, there's a lot of. And also, also this too. Folks don't understand how they have to share you.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

They have to share you with the world. And they get mad with the world. With your team, with your stylist, which insisted like they.

[A]

With me with. Now that's what it is. Right. Cause people be Mad that you, oh, you. Oh. I'm telling you.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Cause at the end of it all, I want to be with me, too, y'. All. Being with your girl, your girl Wanna be with your girl, too.

[B]

Oh, you just. Ooh, that just.

[A]

It's crazy, ain't it?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you don't even have to, like, the one thing that's been. Especially since the Grammys, mind you. I still have to make a video to let everybody know, like, how I'm actually feeling and what's been going on. Because not only do I have interviews, but it's the folks in my life that want to know individually. So I'm like, I gotta make a video to let everyone know. But it's. It does make me a little sad when the homies wanna hang out. Hey, do you have free time? I actually don't. I actually don't have the time. And then the time that I do have that is not being pulled. I just wanna have a moment to myself because the demand is there, you know, so we have to be focused and just to remind them, like, hey, I'm a tap in when I can. But, like, talking about some. Don't, don't. What did someone say?

[A]

The meat hacking Hollywood. I hate that.

[B]

It's like they, you know, Duran done let this Grammy get to him. I'm gonna tell you what it got to me. The calendar, the schedule has what's gotten to me. You know what I'm saying? We have to do this. You have to do this. You have to be there. That is what has gotten to this.

[A]

It's like that meme of that man. I don't have the capacity.

[B]

I don't have the capacity. I have the video. I don't have the capacity. I doubt. I don't. Yeah.

[A]

It's so true. I just live kicking the feet up and getting into that because it is so true. And anybody out there that's. That's just. Which we all are working, trying to make it happen, trying to get the dream. Like, there's sometimes not enough. And if you don't have enough to give to yourself, that it's not even necessary to even try to give it to anybody else. So, you know, I'm loving that you're having love, but also still maintaining you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's the right there, baby. This is. You know what I love when people show up with genuine intentions, especially when it comes to dating. My girls and I were just talking about how the best connections happen. When someone puts in real effort from the jump and Bumble is definitely onto something because they're making it easy to find people who really want to get to know and date the real you from the beginning. Through features like Bumble compliments, someone can show genuine interest in something on your profile. Like your love of cooking or that cute hiking photo. I see you boo all before you even match. That kind of meaningful connection changes the whole vibe. That's why it's the dating app my girlfriends use and trust. And let's talk about safety, because that matters. Bumble has photo verification and ID verification built right in. You can be at ease knowing the person you're chatting with is actually who they say they are. That peace of mind, it's a non negotiable. Ready to connect with people who bring the same energy as you. Download Bumble now. Dear diary, I have a problem. And the problem is my brain will not let me rest. Like last week I was supposed to be going to sleep and instead I spent two hours trying to figure out why we cringe at our old photos. Like, what is it with that? Is it psychological? Is it ego? I needed to know. So I've been using Claude, which is an AI that actually thinks through stuff with you. It's not giving you some little surface level answer and dipping. It asks questions back. It goes down the rabbit hole with you, which is dangerous for me personally, but I love it. And here's the thing. Anthropic, the company that makes Claude committed to keeping it ad free. So when you're in the middle of your 1am spiral, your conversation stays yours. No random sponsored ads, just you and your thoughts, which for me is a lot. If your brain never shuts up, Claude gets it. Try clawd for free at Claude AI Kikipalmer and see why problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. Waiting to exhale is the inspo for Bloom, which is iconic. I mean, I feel like. Tell me if you feel the same way. The older that I get, the more I realize that waiting to exhale was real as hell.

[B]

Oh no. Very much. I am. What did she say? You wanna know one thing that I just realized about all of us? Not one of us have a man. Baby Bernadine over there holding that cigarette like, baby, it's too soon, Savannah. It's too soon.

[A]

All the different women, the archetypes, the character, the. The storylines, the. The realizing of the. What the exhale represents symbolize, like it's so insane. So I'm curious for you, like when you decided to have that be the inspo, did you have that moment was were you going through that? Is this. Was this the marking of that era for you, why you wanted to dedicate to that, to the album? Or was it a previous thing? Like, how did you come to wanting that to be the inspo for that?

[B]

So, first of all, wait and Exhale, right along with Hostel, I Got a Groove Back, all that stuff. Those are my comfort films. Watch them all. Gotta watch them all the time. One thing that. The core thing that I. That I would sit with, you know, especially watching it in our. In our 30s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No matter what those women went through in their personal lives, they could always come together and lean on one another. And I just really. I love that. One of my favorite parts of the movie, and it's so short, is Tyreek coming in and putting the covers over them. Cause they're all asleep in the living room. It's like, happy birthday, Mom. And they're just. I'm like, I miss sleepovers. I miss that. But folks don't know how to record. People like, why are you playing? Why are you putting my hand in warm water? They doing all on my bladder. We are of age. Stop.

[A]

First of all, why I got a mustache, girl.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, if we could just. Just get some seriousness going on, we could actually probably have some adult sleepovers again. But, you know, f. Also, folks be snoring.

[A]

The snoring is bad, baby.

[B]

And who.

[A]

You need to see a doctor.

[B]

And who going to be sleeping on the floor. You better get me a pull out this couch.

[A]

Okay. People be having sleep apnea. You got to get it checked out.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

You got to get it checked out. Okay, so are you. What type of friend are you? Are you a voice note person? Are you an essay tech star?

[B]

Are you.

[A]

Are you a texter or are you a facetimer? Don't call me.

[B]

Well, first and foremost, when you said, are you a voice note person? I just. I just got sent back to a place because there is. There is a voice note that is sitting in my messages right now that is 13 minutes long.

[A]

Aw, now they should have called.

[B]

And I'm like. I'm like, baby as me trying to respond back to everybody. You are the headliner, okay? You are absolutely be going last 13 minutes. Just start your audiobook. Just start the audiobook.

[A]

No, because voice note. Voice note, baby note. Not voice. Essay.

[B]

Essay. Voice. Dissertation.

[A]

Yeah, like 13.

[B]

Like, this is a podcast. This is a podcast. And they had the nerve to send me a text after that. Cause you know who I'm talking to. Talking about some. I'm starting a book club. Last night I said, you are? Book club. Enough, dear. I have yet to get through the essay you sent me.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

I'm a Facetimer.

[A]

Oh, you are.

[B]

I FaceTime. Like, just FaceTime. But the thing is, I'll just say my mom. It's like she be having. She be FaceTiming me, trying to tell my. Look who I'm with. Like, lady, I'm on the toilet.

[A]

Look who I'm with. Gave me life, right?

[B]

Like, look who I'm with, ma', am, I'm in the bathroom. So let me know who's with you before you FaceTime me.

[A]

I feel like I'm really the annoying friend that only wants to text. Yeah, I'm so bad. It gets to the point where my friends are like, you gave me anxiety because I am sending essays, but at least space it. I do. They're gorgeously formatted, but gorgeously. I even have a subject line. Like, I even have a bowl.

[B]

Oh, you got the subject line, too. Oh, babe.

[A]

So, like, yeah, I'm definitely like, yeah, crazy.

[B]

I'm a facetimer. But if I. If I absolutely can't call, then we'll text. If it's something important that you need to talk to me, just call.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, just call. You speak about your friends teaching you, like, you know, setting the tone for what it looks like to have romantic, platonic, for, you know, relationships. Non romantic. I feel the same way about my friendships. Whether it's us learning how to, you know, take each other on dates. And we're going to eat, we're going to watch the new movie. How does that look for you? What. What do you and your friends do together?

[B]

We cook for one another.

[A]

What you be cooking?

[B]

Like, I mean, whatever's there.

[A]

Whatever's there is crazy.

[B]

I'm not. So first and foremost, not.

[A]

Vienna sausage.

[B]

No. A little Spam? No. No. I'm not a. Mind you, I'm not a chef. Okay. Just because you throw things on the skillet does not make you a chef. You can prepare a meal. So I can do a nice, cute breakfast. Okay. French toast. I'll do some salmon. Love a Brussels sprout or some broccoli, you know?

[A]

Yes, broccoli, Broccoli.

[B]

No relation to the late, great Darryl Coley. I'll do some. Just some grilled chicken. I love a. You know.

[A]

You're healthy.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't really do beef and steak and stuff like that. My mom didn't Even eat that when I was growing. When I was younger, growing up.

[A]

Growing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like to cook more. I would like to cook more. But I am, I think, with me and my friends, I love to do the hosting thing.

[B]

I do like the host. A little hosty host.

[A]

I love to make sure you guys have liquid and something to eat. I love to make sure we got games. We doing tug of war. We doing the limbo.

[B]

Oh, you a gamer.

[A]

Gamer.

[B]

He said, we are gathering.

[A]

I'm very much cookout. Yeah, I do love that. Like my son, we're getting ready to do his birthday party.

[B]

How old is he turning?

[A]

Three.

[B]

Our nephew is about to be three. Child Otis. Wait, no. Le Otis.

[A]

Le Otis. That's it.

[B]

That baby. That ain't the most elderly name you can give.

[A]

And he is so mean. He's changed.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

He used to be so sweet, and now he's like, you the bad mama, and you need to go out of my room.

[B]

Oh, not out of your room.

[A]

Oh, this is my house.

[B]

I mean, but it's his room,

[A]

so I'm loving being a mom. Needless to say, he has a great personality. I'm happy. For his birthday, we're gonna do a big little, you know, just at the house party. And it's just family and friends. There's nothing that means more to me than.

[B]

Oh, wait, the other thing that I do, I take out the trash for my homegirls.

[A]

Fabulous.

[B]

If I've ever taken one of their cars, they actually want me to take their cars because they know I'm gonna fill it up. Yes. That's why the guys in their lives, they be having a really. Because I already came in. Doing what you think is doing the most is my bare minimum.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is the bare minimum.

[A]

What is that about? What is that they want coochie is that changes everything.

[B]

That's all they doing.

[A]

Wanting it changes everything. But if they want it, why wouldn't they do more? I don't get that. Like, when I want some tell, I don't do less for the man. I'm like, what do you need? I turn into Loretta Devine.

[B]

Come on now, little candy ass. Bon Francis. Okay.

[A]

I don't act like. Come on.

[B]

You know, this is another thing. I will say this because my mother was my first friend. I don't view. I don't have a disdain for women. That is why a lot of men, their first bullies were their mothers. Really. And so that's why they. That's why they have a disdain for Women. Yeah, we gotta, the, the pipeline of where this anger and stuff like that comes from towards y'. All. We just have to talk about where it began.

[A]

Do you think a lot of it is just the cause I used? Cause I thought a lot about that, right. And I thought about it in terms of like single motherhood, mothers being stressed. I am a single mother, you know, so I like, is that where the, the, the, the, the viewpoint of that dynamic started? But then I also started thinking about like some of the relationships that I have with guys. The ones that are very close to their fathers have a different vibe, meaning they have this emotional capacity that I've also started to look at too where it's like, yeah, like cuz you talk so positively about your relationship with your dad and other guys that I know that have the ability to love, love are like this with their dads, where it's like they could cry today.

[B]

Dad. Yeah.

[A]

You know one of my best friends, Matt Shout Out Matthew Kugler. Him and his dad are like this. And he's the sweetest guy ever. And so I also also think about like just like the emotional capacity reflected and mirrored in another man too. I think sometimes again, I don't know people's lives and their upbringing, but I do think growing up like, yes, the relationship with your mom, like you know, how you view women, that's. And then also how you, you feel you can operate as a man. And if you don't have anybody that's mirroring something that is nuanced, then you become.

[B]

Well again, men aren't necessarily taught how to be men. They're just taught how not to be like girls.

[A]

And that's just so unfair.

[B]

So you have a lot of open air vagueness to kind of operate in and it's just, there's no focus. So I would like to say that I'm a middle ground because there have been homies in my life where I call them the non straight practicing heterosexuals. Because like I said, like whiteness and straightness, they're sisters. Okay, so it's a construct. But when you just say, no, I'm just attracted to the opposite sex, you're not performing. Straightness is a performance and it's for the edification and validation of other men. Straightness is actually some of the gayest you could ever participate in. Matter of fact, some dudes are so straight they go to jail because see, you're around all those men.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And being told what to do every moment of the day, that is how straight some of them are.

[A]

It does get confusing to all of us around in regards to, like, sometimes it's like you don't even want to be around us. Damn.

[B]

They wanna. They wanna.

[A]

Your homeboy.

[B]

They want to fellowship with y', all, but they don't like y'. All.

[A]

Isn't that crazy? I really want us to. As a co, I'm happy that we had this brief moment of that, because this is more. There's more to even say up on that. And I'm excited to see what people are going to be saying in the comments and stuff like that, because I feel like there needs to be a whole panel where I do some type of discussion on this, because I really want us all to get together and get along and just vibe out. You know what I mean? I really want more love in our thing. We got to get off the app. We gotta get irl. We gotta have, like, let's come out.

[B]

Come on, irl.

[A]

We gotta get irl. Right? I'm bringing the digital talk into the real world. I got a problem.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But, you know, like, I care about that. Like, I want us to. It's too lonely. Everybody is too lonely. Whether you. I don't care. Relationships, friendships, lonely all around. Family. Some people ain't got no family. They're trying to figure out how to find a family. Like, we just have to get real. We're getting too over that.

[B]

This.

[A]

I don't care about looking cringe. I want us to have vibes.

[B]

That is what.

[A]

Get up here and make some babies.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Or drop some.

[B]

And that's the issue. People are afraid of looking cringe. They're afraid. When you see videos of folks dancing back in the 80s, and they be talking about, ooh, that was some strong cocaine. First of all, that was not cocaine.

[A]

It was obviously Quaaludes. I'm kidding.

[B]

But it's the awareness of I'm being watched, so I don't want to look. Look crazy. This is gonna be that. If we could just get out. That's why when Tyler was doing the Don't Tap the Glass album, he had the release party was like, everybody's phones. Yeah.

[A]

Very huge fan of his.

[B]

Everybody love him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everybody's phones need to be gone. Like, let's dance. You're focused on the wrong thing. Y' all trying to. Somebody up in the middle of the dance floor, and you trying to capture. No. Get your ass down there on the floor with him.

[A]

Yes. Seriously. Seriously. I miss that. I really do mean, like on Soul Train, if you look at some way, some of the people was dancing, you knew they thought nobody was watching.

[B]

They would have not. Not been able to take my hips nor shoulders.

[A]

Come on, Shakira.

[B]

All shoulders. Okay. But these hips tell no fallacies. Okay.

[A]

I really feel the same way. I really want. You know I'm gonna be thinking on this.

[B]

Yes. Let me know. I'll be down for the panel.

[A]

Okay. Cause we gotta talk and we get. The folks gotta talk to us. We gotta talk to each other.

[B]

We gotta talk to our people.

[A]

Come on. Let the congregation say amen.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Now we gotta throw it Back to your YouTube Daves. We're not. We weren't gonna have this conversation and not talk about, like, how so many of us first met you. That's Coray Cray. You are one of the OG YouTube singers, Sangas. I mean, your content blended musical covers, comedy and dance, which I love because I think comedy has more of a place in art than people often get it credit for. And you do a great job at that. So what was the goal when you started? Were you like, I'm trying to get signed or, you know, I'm just trying to, you know, get a fan base going kind of. I mean, this was like so early on, I don't think people even knew the impact of YouTube that much. So what did you go in through?

[B]

So I signed up for YouTube July 20, 2006 and then posted my first video December of 2007, strictly off of. Everybody in my circle has been saying that I can sing and I can do X, Y and Z. Let's see what the Internet got to say about this. Cause they don't care about your feelings. They will let you have it.

[A]

Especially on YouTube.

[B]

Especially so. My first video was a song of original of mine called Paranoid. And I mixed in dollar or more by J. Davey at the end. And then it was just flashing lights. Then it was slow dancing in the burning room. We had Erica covers, Amy Winehouse, like all of that. The flashing lights cover was my first video that racked up a thousand views. I remember that. And then I recorded a couple studio versions of those songs that I did the popular covers and put it out as a mixtape. Alcohol, harmony mixtape. Shout out to the OGs and my play aunt. Well, I didn't know her at the time, but she's my play aunt now. Frances JJ, she's a DJ. She got ahold of my Flashing lights cover, sent it to Rickey Smiley.

[A]

I love Rickey. Hey, Ricky.

[B]

Shout out to Ricky. And then he starts playing it on his radio show like every Morning to the point where I forgot that the song wasn't even mine. And then from there, Erica found me. She reached out, Ms. Badu, Ms. Baidu. Cause can't nobody do Badu like you do. And from there, she reached out personally, like, look, I love what you're doing. I need you in my band. And it'll be 15 years in April since we've been together. Cause I had to hit her up. Cause she called me something awesome. You know, I'm so proud of. You know, gave me the. You know, I'm so proud of you. And you know, I know I've done my job. When my babies don't need me anymore. I said, I don't know what you're talking about now. What are you talking about, ma'?

[A]

Am?

[B]

Because I'm still on tenor. Don't get no bright ideas, okay? I will see you at the next gig. Oh, yes. That was one of the main reasons why I wanted that Grammy, is so that I can continue supporting. Cause it's no ego with me when you genuinely enjoy what it is that you are doing. On top of that, I'm singing songs that I like with artists that I with, with people that I genuinely love, and I'm getting compensated for. What's the issue?

[A]

None.

[B]

Whitney Houston was doing background for BB and cece Wine when one of her songs was at the top of the charts. This was back during, like, how well I Know or Saving All My Love, Whichever one. But her label was hot. Cause. What do you mean? Our artist, who is a huge act doing background right in the middle. I'm lost without you. Yes. Baby. Wait, wait. I'm gonna tell you one thing. She was disappointed. Chewing. Chewing that gum.

[A]

I miss Whitney so much.

[B]

That woman ain't got no business being dead.

[A]

No business. It pisses me so off between, like,

[B]

between her, Nate Dogg, Luther. It's like.

[A]

It's really annoying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Rest in peace, though. We love y'. All.

[B]

We love y'. All. And we are continuation of. Of that energy for sure.

[A]

What is it like being on tour with Erykah Badu? How is she? She chill. She fun. I mean, I met her a few times, and she's so awesome. And her daughter, Puma, so cute.

[B]

Puma. I mean, shoot. I realized early on that I had a very unique relationship with her. Because first of all, she's very personable. So like I said, the first time that we ever spoke, she reached out, sent me her number, like, hit me up. And so I was learning that how other people were being reached out to. Or certain things that were going on that camp. That wasn't a thing that was handled by management or things like that. I'm like, oh, well, she reached out to us personally. You know, it's. It's very much a family gathering. She's been a mentor and a big sister. I mean, just a therapist. You know, a lot of things all in one. And I've been able to accumulate things and take notes of enjoy yourself. Like, know your shit, but enjoy yourself. Okay, so you fail or you hit this note. Okay, like, you can sing.

[A]

That's big.

[B]

This is all live. As she said, Studio is about perfecting a moment. Live is when you're creating the moment moment. So also being on your toes, because not every show is the same. We could literally be in the middle of the set, and then she'll be like, let's do that one song. You mean that one song that we did in rehearsal five years ago?

[A]

She seemed like, what's my now?

[B]

So, yeah, no, it's.

[A]

It's. Cause she knows she got the best people with her.

[B]

Absolutely. She.

[A]

She.

[B]

She trusts us. So when you can have that kind of synergy, like, there's nothing to wear. We're literally just going out there like,

[A]

law, let's j. Oh, I live also. You bite your lips like me.

[B]

Okay, so. So what's so funny? I be stimming. I guess that's one of my. My stems. But I think I do it because I feel like my lips are dry. So I just.

[A]

Do I. Am I stimming?

[B]

I think that's what stimming. There was another thing where I was like. I was singing. I was like, doing this, and they were like, okay, stim. I'm like, wait, what is that? I'm. We're all learning the stud in the film.

[A]

Okay, catch it. So wait a minute. What does that mean about me if I've been stimming all my life?

[B]

It's just little things that we do when we're kind of like. It's like this, like if you're the

[A]

boy from the Blind side, right?

[B]

Or like, if I'm speaking to you and I'm. You know, I'm talking. And then once you start talking, I'm like, mm. It's like, I don't know. We're trying to fill in the space of the being still or something. And I swear, when I did a Tamron haul and I told myself, I said, okay, Duran, don't fidget. So I didn't do this. And then I go back and I Look, and I'm doing this. I'm like, huh?

[A]

I do it a lot. Yes. So what I love.

[B]

What's your reason behind?

[A]

You know, it's. I don't know, I think it's a form of, like, comfort, you know, it's just like. It's something to do.

[B]

Yes. Okay. So I don't feel bad. This is why. This is why I feel so scene.

[A]

So I feel so scene. That took me out. You're back in the studio and sing. You're back in the studio working on your next album. Anything you could tell me about it? I ain't trying to press you like everybody else is, but I just wanted to know if there's a mood or vibe you're taking into it.

[B]

It's a continuation of Bloom, and I want it to be a bit more upbeat. Cause like, half of the album is kind of mid tempo slow for Bloom. So I wanted to get a bit more upbeat and also talk about some of the other things that surround being in close proximity with people, you know, that you have a relationship with, a bond with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So just little ins and outs. Trying to do some spicy songs now. Because I didn't want to have any songs about heated fellowship on the album where we're trying to talk about platonic friends. Amen. So now that we are branching, we can get. We can get a little spicy.

[A]

So, yeah, I love spicy.

[B]

I was trying to. It was funny. Cause I was in the studio the other day and they were talking about some. You ain't wrote no songs about sex. I'm like, okay, well then let's get vulgar. And then I got vulgar. They're like, well, okay, now it's too much. And then my team is like, well, as a woman, I was like, well, this song ain't about you. This is about gay doing gay.

[A]

Okay, period.

[B]

But yeah, you can sing along, but this ain't about you. Yeah, so. But it was more so because we were repeating one section, trying to get it right. And it was very much this word, this word, this word. But then once we actually got it all together, it was like, okay, it's not that bad.

[A]

Okay, period. Cause sometimes you have to see it all together.

[B]

That part we cooking, you in the kitchen talking about some. Well, if you just put. I'm like, well, I don't be over there talking about, you need to put some old rouge on somebody's cheeks, ma'. Am.

[A]

I'm howling at the rouge. That is such an OG term for the blush. Come on, rouge. You are so funny. And I love this is the thing again. I always feel this way about comedy. People don't give comedy enough credit for being, like, difficult in an art form, and a lot of times they think it's just being silly. But you are so seriously talented and so seriously funny. I know some of your inspirations are like, Jim Carrey, you know, who's a big inspo of mine as well, with all the physical comedy. But you're performing at the Netflix as a joke festival in May, and I'm excited about that because you're infusing your love for comedy with your love of music, and I just love what you do with that. Even when you did the tiny desk and you was dressed as Uncle Bobby, like, I just love that you're not afraid to do that. So what are you looking forward to with the festival and just what it's gonna allow you to do?

[B]

So my ne, which, by the way, is sold out now. She is sold out.

[A]

That's fabulous.

[B]

So it's my variety show. So there will be music and there'll also be. I like to call it story time. Not necessarily stand up. Cause I've told so many stories about just things that have happened in my life, and I just get a kick out of the room. So the moment that the whole room ignites, I'm like, put that in the material very much. Dion Cole.

[A]

I love Deon Cole.

[B]

Yes. No, that's not. My mother loves him. I took her to go see him. She loves. Yeah, I want to just start flexing that and seeing what. So I'm getting with, like, Kev on stage.

[A]

Kev is amazing.

[B]

I'm getting with Dwayne Perkins. There's a few other folks that I want to reach out. Kid Fury, who I just. I respect their content, and just to get feedback. I have a few filters, but I'm really excited.

[A]

I have an hour, babe. This is going to be. And again, for me, we're in this time now, especially for me, starting 20 years ago in more of the traditional landscape, we didn't have none of the social media, none of the digital stuff. I'm really happy that it's no longer like that, where you have to be a certain way to be an artist. You have to be a certain way to be a performer. Like, you have to be separate. If you could sing, you could dance. You got to pick one. You know what I mean? Like, it's no longer. You could just be an artist and build a brand. And so I think, you know, you are, you know, one of my favorites. And you were able to. Yeah. Usher in that next stage of what it looks like to be an artist. And it doesn't take just mean one thing. This niche little thing. It's like, no, no, no. This is Duran.

[B]

Bernard. Bernard. Yeah. No, it's

[A]

me.

[B]

Getting this honor with the Grammys has opened up so many doors that we don't even realize are. Are here.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Because we. It's. And I don't. And I also have to say the word butch queen has never been said on that stage on that platform before.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I had to make sure I give a shout out to us because. And also my father being there specifically. I know my mom was there for the last time. Sure. But it was imperative that my father be there because I needed people to see. This is the result of your parents loving your children, not trying to write their story, but read their story. And how children treat their parents when they become adults is their report card. That's a report card. So when I said that I wouldn't want to be bothered being reincarnated because I would risk not having my parents and their support and love has lasted me the next 10,000 lifetimes. Folks are like, I want my children to speak about me like that, or, I want to come out to my family so that we can. And, you know, it's. It is just. I say it's a global timeline cleanse. It was just a global timeline cleanse. And I'm grateful that that is stamped in time.

[A]

Me too. And I just love everything that you say. God bless your parents. It's such a beautiful thing. And I. I feel the same about mine.

[B]

Shout out to y', all, mama. Shout out to. Cause she didn't play.

[A]

She didn't.

[B]

She did not play.

[A]

Okay. Okay, well, we're now gonna play a game. I love playing a game with all my guests. And I thought this would really be fun because, you know, you're always going viral, not just with the Grammys, but also one of your early remixes of do you know the Muffin Man? Yeah, yeah, we know about that.

[B]

If you don't know, Shout out to my girls.

[A]

Okay, so we're taking that energy and turning it into a game. We're gonna take turns where we're giving each other nursery rhymes, plus a style or a vibe, and we just have to remix it on the spot. Just a little improv. No rules. Let's go. Okay, so let's see. We'll have you start. Unless you want me to start. Do you want me to start? I Can start.

[B]

You can start. You start.

[A]

Okay, cool. So it's gonna be itsy bitsy spire. And I'm gonna do it as a pop punk anthem.

[B]

Pop punk anthem. Okay.

[A]

Itsy bitsy spider went off the water spout down came the rain on the wash the spider out out came the sun in dried of all the rain There's a. She smiled when Dumbo spies again.

[B]

I was creating a mosh pit over here.

[A]

I loved it. You was like on that meme with that white dude in the back, like.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Other dude rapping. Exactly, exactly. I love that meme.

[B]

Yes. Okay, so we gotta be there for Halloween. Oh my.

[A]

That would give life.

[B]

Okay, Period.

[A]

Okay, let's do old McDonald 90s R B slow jam.

[B]

Ah, yes.

[A]

He said ah, yes.

[B]

You knew old MacDonald had a farm. E I E I O. And on that farm he had a cow E I E I O. And the cow goes moo moo moo moo moo moo moo moo. Yes. E I E I. Oh my God. Was that 280s? Was that Luther? That was Luther.

[A]

That was so good. I don't know how your ass do that. Okay, let me see. I'm a little teapot Disney villain ballad. Hmm. I'm a little teapot short and spout Tipped me over and poured me out. What is the rest of the song?

[B]

Down came the sun.

[A]

Down came the sun and dried up all the rain in the itsy bitsy spider. I didn't change. I'm supposed to be doing our little teapot, But y' all got the gist.

[B]

Wait. And I ain't say nothing.

[A]

I see a medley. That's what we did, right? We did a medley.

[B]

Listen, I wouldn't have noticed if you didn't say nothing. She said I'm a little teapot. Yes, the itsy bitsy baby. The itsy bitsy teapot.

[A]

I follow directions. Cause you started telling me and I started going.

[B]

That is funny.

[A]

Woo. Okay, the last one will be. So we have two. I'm gonna give you two. We could do ABC's Opera Diva. Or we could do you are my sunshine monologue.

[B]

Oh, what was the first one?

[A]

ABC's Opera Diva.

[B]

Q r e, tv, w x y z. Now I know my abcs. Next time, won't you sing. With me? Thank you.

[A]

Oh my gosh. That is the Duran Bernard.

[B]

The Grammy award winning baby.

[A]

You are so much joy, so much life, so much.

[B]

Speaking of joy, I just say this. I spoke to Jennifer Lewis the night that I. I won the Grammy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she said, do you know that your joy is feeding people? It is feeding people in the Congo. It's feeding people in Sudan. You know, she love Africa.

[A]

Yes. Period.

[B]

But it's just my joy within myself is being a light in a very dark time. Not that it hasn't been dark in the States, but right now, the darkness is prevalent. It's palpable. So to have that, like I said, a timeline cleanse, and to hear that validation, to say that your joy that you have within yourself is helping others,

[A]

that's impact. That's real impact. And I. And I agree with Jennifer 100%. We need more of that. Sometimes there's not enough that we can do. And if that's what. Knowing that I can at least put a smile on someone's face.

[B]

And that's what it is. Because you sometimes feel like, am I doing enough? Am I. Is this. Is this effective?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is my voice. Does it have any weight? Is anyone listening genuinely so.

[A]

So that Mother Teresa says or said, there can be no great things done, only small things with great love. And whenever I feel down, I always hold on to that because it's like, look, I maybe can't save the world, but in this moment, I'm doing something. Absolutely. And so thank you so much, Sharan. I hope people have laughter and joy and entertainment while watching our conversation. Cause I know I had a laugh.

[B]

I did. Okay. Thank you for. Of course.

[A]

Thanks. This conversation was everything at once. Deep, funny, affirming, and real. If you're new to his work, this is your sign to tap in. And if you've been rocking with him since the early days, I hope his authenticity keeps reminding you that being yourself is always a flex. That's all from me, baby. This is Keke Palmer.