Keke Palmer (1:57)

Well, you did the pre show pull up and I'm excited again. Yet again. Guys, I've been having some, like, good handwriting.

Ella Mai (2:02)

No, I can actually, I was going to say please excuse my handwriting on there because I was doing it really quick and it's really big. And I don't know why I was writing in capital. It looked good. Thank you.

Keke Palmer (2:09)

Okay. Zodiac sign. I already knew this because you. Lily, I was listening to the album, you know, I'm so very good, by the way. And you do the whole breakdown with the Scorpio piece.

Ella Mai (2:17)

I just had to put it in there.

Keke Palmer (2:19)

Very Scorpio of you.

Ella Mai (2:20)

Very Scorpio.

Keke Palmer (2:21)

But then you're double Scorpio, so it's your sun and your moon, but then your rising is a cancer. Really love a girl.

Ella Mai (2:27)

Yes.

Keke Palmer (2:28)

You call yourself a lover girl. And this. Nothing proves it more than this.

Ella Mai (2:31)

Yep. It's very. It's obviously all. Both water signs. So very amazing. Emotional. But like, the Scorpio obviously comes off. Not emotional at all. But we really are inside. Once you break the wall down, definitely sensitive. And cancers are just sensitive anyway, so there's. Yeah, it's a lot of emotion, a lot of water in there.

Keke Palmer (2:47)

I'm a cancer rising, so trust me, I get it.

Ella Mai (2:49)

Yes, yes, yes.

Keke Palmer (2:50)

What are you most grateful for today? My son. And the love I have around me on my journey. Amen. I feel the same way, girl.

Ella Mai (2:56)

My son.

Keke Palmer (2:57)

We're gonna get into the babies, but, like, it's too much with them.

Ella Mai (3:00)

Why?

Keke Palmer (3:01)

They just so the ones.

Ella Mai (3:02)

It's crazy. Cause I feel like. And I know you said we're going to get into it, but I just feel like people always say it before you have kids, like, oh, you know, your kids just become your world. And, like, you just don't really understand it until you have your own.

Keke Palmer (3:13)

Yeah, no, you don't. And how old your boo?

Ella Mai (3:15)

Your little boo? He's one and a half.

Keke Palmer (3:16)

One and a half.

Ella Mai (3:16)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (3:17)

Okay. A relationship or friendship, non negotiable. For you. Communication.

Ella Mai (3:22)

I should have written good communication. Because all communication is not the communication that I'm looking for. But, yeah, good communication. Even, like, I just. Even when I send my friends memes, like, on social media, a lot of my friends will reply, won't reply to the memes I've sent and then send me memes. And I'm like, I'm not watching this until you. Until you watch what I've sent you. So, yeah, definitely communication.

Keke Palmer (3:44)

I love that she's a communicator. What's a question you wish you were asked more in interviews? My love for soccer. In parentheses. Football. Because she's from London.

Ella Mai (3:53)

Come on.

Keke Palmer (3:54)

So you like football?

Ella Mai (3:55)

Love it. I used to play. I played for, like eight or nine years, which is probably something that a lot of people don't really Know about

Keke Palmer (4:00)

me, but, yeah, you know one of my homeboys. My girl. Shout out to Candace Leroy Sonny. He played for Manchester. Are you familiar with him as a football player?

Ella Mai (4:08)

No.

Keke Palmer (4:08)

Damn, Leroy.

Ella Mai (4:09)

I'm not a. No, but I'm not a Manchester United fan or Man City. It depends on yourself. I'm an Arsenal fan. My brother is a Man United fan. So that's like. That's the ops a little bit.

Keke Palmer (4:17)

Okay. Shout out to Leroy Sonny. I don't know much, but I knew him. Who is someone you've met that made you feel starstruck? These names are incredible. Beyonce. Stevie Wonder.

Ella Mai (4:26)

It's always going to be Beyonce, for one. Because I just like, yeah, but Stevie Wonder. I was just like, it didn't feel real. Like, it didn't feel like I was actually meeting him. And I got to sing with him at his annual. He does, like, an annual show for Christmas for his foundation, and I got to sing with him, and I was just like, this is just not even happening right now.

Keke Palmer (4:44)

What did y' all sing?

Ella Mai (4:45)

Superstition.

Keke Palmer (4:46)

Such a good Stevie song, too. And fun. I mean, all his songs are fun, but that one is, like, very.

Ella Mai (4:51)

Yeah, yeah. It was really fun, and he was really sweet, and, like, it was just. It was a dream come true. Honestly, I love that.

Keke Palmer (4:57)

I hear really good things. I've met, I think, maybe Stevie once before, but I hear that he's very encouraging to the next generation, which I

Ella Mai (5:03)

think is super open, really nice. Like, I feel like if I. I never actually asked him anything in terms of advice when I was there, but it was. He was very warm, and I know that if I did, he would have.

Keke Palmer (5:12)

Yeah, yeah, that's dope. That's dope. Okay, last one. What's a mantra you live by and why? Always show up as yourself? As cliche as it is, no one fills a space the way you do. We are all built different for a reason. I mean, it don't get no better than that.

Ella Mai (5:27)

It is cliche. I know people are probably, like, rolling their eyes, like, yeah, that's what everybody says. But it really is true.

Keke Palmer (5:32)

But I started to realize that the whole point of something being cliche is because it's true. Like, it got so redundant that everybody was just like, okay. But it's like, guys hold on to it, though.

Ella Mai (5:41)

I agree.

Keke Palmer (5:41)

A lot of times we forget.

Ella Mai (5:42)

Mm.

Keke Palmer (5:44)

Okay. Thanks for doing the pre show. Pull up. How are you feeling? I'm so happy to have you on the show.

Ella Mai (5:48)

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Keke Palmer (5:50)

How is this new era of your life. I mean, we're so excited we have this album from you. You also have a baby. I mean, so much has happened since we first met. Ms. Ell.

Ella Mai (5:58)

Yes.

Keke Palmer (5:59)

So how would you describe your current vibe?

Ella Mai (6:01)

Oh, my gosh. When I think about, like, how the world met me, I'm. I feel like I'm, like, a completely different person. And you probably feel like that even more so. But, like, yeah, it's. It's. It's crazy. I feel like I've stepped into this new era of motherhood. And, like, I'm over 30 now, and I always say, like, I feel like when women hit their 30s, it's just, like, there's just a different vibe. There's a different energy that is, like, hard to explain. But anybody, any woman that's over 30 knows exactly what I'm talking about, girl. Yes. Yes, exactly. And just, like, just waking up and being present in the moment and trying to appreciate things as they happen and just being surrounded by the people that I want to be surrounded by, you know, like, not having to deal with stuff that I don't really want to deal with. That's where I'm at. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (6:41)

I do think the baby helped with that.

Ella Mai (6:42)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (6:42)

Like, for whatever reason, the patience for things that we didn't even know we were outsourcing, it's gone.

Ella Mai (6:47)

It's because you just don't even have the time for it. No, like, you now. Now your schedule is kind of on your baby, especially in the start of it. Like, you just really don't have time for any. Anything outside of what is, like, the priority at that moment. So I think. Yeah, I just. Yeah, I'm just. I'm enjoying life.

Keke Palmer (7:04)

So what does your day look like? And I feel like you do something good that a lot of artists maybe can't do or don't know how to do. Where we don't always know what's going on in Ella life. You know what I mean? But it doesn't seem like you're being weird about it. It's just kind of like Ella living her life. You know, we gonna see her when we see it. She gonna show us what she wanna show us. So, like, what does it look like for you? Like, are you just, you know, always with the baby? Do y' all go out? Are you traveling?

Ella Mai (7:24)

You know, it really depends. Like, right now, obviously, I'm doing. I released the album, so right now, I haven't been around him as much. This is probably, like, the longest it's been that I haven't like consecutively been with him, but it's been great because I know that he's taken care of and, you know, I don't have to worry about him. So I'm really grateful for my village. But like, typically on the days where I'm not working and I'm just at home, it would really just be. We wake up, he has a nanny, so she'd give him his breakfast because I. I don't play about my shout

Keke Palmer (7:50)

out to the nannies.

Ella Mai (7:51)

Yes, absolutely. But I don't play about my sleep. I have to. I have to make sure I have a good nine. At least nine. Which people think is why you look so good. Thank you. I try. But that sleep. That sleep. Yeah. The newborn phase for me was really rough because waking up every two hours was. Yeah. Anywho. Yeah. So he'll be with his nanny for the morning and she'll give him breakfast and do activities, you know, all the things. And then once I get him, we really just chill. It depends on. Depends on the day. Like, we'll. We can go outside, we'll go for a walk. We might stay inside and play. He's like really obsessed. I'm not an anti screen time mom. So he's like really obsessed with sing right now, the movie sing. Which makes me really excited. Cause I feel like, ooh, you might be a musical baby. So I'm like, yeah, let's watch that again and again and again. And he recently, the last time I watched it with him, he actually started singing one of the songs. Just like the little. Just a tiny little part. But I was like, ha, I see what this is. We're gonna run with it. So. Yeah. Really just spending as much time with him as I can do and whatever it is that he wants to do. Like, I got him a kitchen for Christmas. So he's been obsessed with playing in his little kitchen and acting like he's making me food and stuff like that. So he's one and a half. So there's only, you know, there's. But so much. Yeah. Other than stuff like the children's museum or, you know, taking him out for activity stuff. But.

Keke Palmer (9:06)

Are you a movie person? Are you at home binging shows? Do you cook?

Ella Mai (9:10)

I'm not a huge movie person. It's like, I am. Yeah. I'm not a huge movie person. I don't cook. I'm not selling. I'm not really selling myself right now. Damn. I don't cook. No. I like, was not made to be in the kitchen. That's One thing I always say, like, I'll clean. I absolutely.

Keke Palmer (9:26)

I like cleaning, too.

Ella Mai (9:27)

Yeah. But cooking, I just like, three hours of all the prep and cooking, and then I'm gonna eat for five minutes. I'm just like. And then you have to clean after that. It's just like a whole thing. I'm like, eh. And I'm like, I think if I put my mind to it, I would be able to cook, but I just, like, don't really have the energy in my mind.

Keke Palmer (9:44)

I also imagine you maybe, like, by a window. Like, are you writing?

Ella Mai (9:46)

Are you journaling? I mean, yes, I do love to journal. I love to journal, and I love to put pen to paper. I was just speaking about this the other day. Like, I'm getting lazy and just doing stuff on my phone, but I really. Which is probably why my handwriting was the way it. Cause I need to pick up a pen. But do you cook?

Keke Palmer (10:00)

Yeah, I cook, but I'm like, you like, I want to cook more. I like whenever I do it, and I have the time. I actually love to get lost in it. It's a great time for album, you know, Listen to, oh, what new song? What new thing? Or even a podcast like this one. You know, I love, like, just, like, how I can curate a vibe while I cook. And it's always good when you can also do it with somebody, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, my. Like, my son will be in there or his cousins, you know, so I like that vibe. But, girl, you know, we don't be having time.

Ella Mai (10:29)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (10:29)

So it's like, time in order to cook. So I want to create more time for myself to just, like, live in between the working. That's been big for me this year.

Ella Mai (10:37)

Yeah, girl, that's. It's hard.

Keke Palmer (10:39)

Yeah. It is. So big on your Scorpio identity.

Ella Mai (10:42)

Yes.

Keke Palmer (10:42)

I have to know, like, when I think about Scorpio, I'm thinking assertive. I'm thinking, like, spicy. You know, some little stereotypical things. But is there an un Scorpio trait of yours that you think you could identify?

Ella Mai (10:53)

Oh, I don't know, because I. As I said, as we said, I am sun and moon, Scorpio. So it's very much Scorpio over here. It really is. But that's a great question. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that question since my identity really is Scorpio. I don't know.

Keke Palmer (11:09)

Yeah. Okay, we come back to this. She said I'm Scorpio to the bone.

Ella Mai (11:13)

I really am. I do Feel like there are a few misconceptions with Scorpios, but I think it's just also Scorpio men and Scorpio women very different. I think that's all signs, though.

Keke Palmer (11:21)

All signs. But wait, let's talk about the misconception

Ella Mai (11:23)

real quick, because I like that. I feel like people tend to think that Scorpios are, like, super, super jealous. Like, we're super jealous in relationships.

Keke Palmer (11:30)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ella Mai (11:31)

I don't. I. I would like to. I would like to spin it and say I think we are more so territorial than jealous, and those. There's a thin line. But I do think those are two different things. I think it gets misconstrued for jealousy.

Keke Palmer (11:44)

I've actually never seen in a friend or in, like, I dated one Scorpio when I was a teenager. I've never thought jealous.

Ella Mai (11:52)

Okay.

Keke Palmer (11:52)

She thought sometimes that y' all could be a little detached.

Ella Mai (11:55)

Really?

Keke Palmer (11:56)

Not like, detached detached, like. Like, in, like, not a loving way, but very kind of, like, cool, calm and collective. You guys have always given me cool comic.

Ella Mai (12:02)

I will say we are cool.

Keke Palmer (12:04)

Yeah. And very kind of, like, get it together because you'll lose it. Like, that's what I always feel like I get from. From a Scorpio.

Ella Mai (12:10)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (12:10)

Virgos. I feel like we have misconceptions. Misconceptions with Virgos, where people think we're just like, know it alls, or we're, like, very, like.

Ella Mai (12:16)

And by the way, actually, my brother's a Virgo, and he's definitely like that. People think Virgos are actually ass.

Keke Palmer (12:24)

So I don't know. I. I'm not. You know, I feel like I just be wanting people to know the information.

Ella Mai (12:29)

Yeah. I think burgers are just. I think the better word for it is particular, I think. And I think that's a good word. I think you should be particular, especially about things that you're passionate about and. And stuff like that. So. Yeah, I wouldn't say. Yeah, I wouldn't. I think I have a lot of Virgos in my life, and I wouldn't say they think they're know it alls. I just think that they're very particular, and I'm okay with that because I'm a particular person, too, so.

Keke Palmer (12:48)

And that's why Virgos and Scorpios go together. Okay, well, let's go back to the beginning. First of all, your mom named you Ella after Ella Fitzgerald. She sounds kind of like you with your son. She did she always see this singing future. Like, was she a singer?

Ella Mai (13:02)

No. No, no. My mom is tone deaf. Okay. And she won't even be mad at me saying that, because she really is. But I will say I always grew up around music. My auntie was a singer, and I grew up in church. My grandma's a minister, so there was always. Yeah, there was always music around. But she did say my mom loved jazz music as I'm called Ella. My brother is called Miles, after Miles Davis. So, yeah, she's. She's always been a big jazz music lover. And I. She did tell me that she did wish when she named me, she's like, oh, maybe, maybe she'll be a singer. But she never really, like, she just said it. She just put out into the atmosphere and then just like, never really thought anything of it until I started to grow. And she realized because I did perform in arts, like from when I was little, so she kind of realized, like, oh, maybe. Maybe this will be a thing. But, yeah, she's not. She's. She cannot sing.

Keke Palmer (13:49)

What is it like? And I just thought about this. What is it like in a London church? Like, do you, like. Did you grow up like that? Like, is it like. Like, is it like the American churches?

Ella Mai (13:56)

Yeah. I will say, I feel like you American churches are a bit more like. I don't know if extravagant is the right word, but like, everything. Everything is bigger, I feel like in America. Do you know what I mean? So my grandma. We're Pentecostal.

Keke Palmer (14:11)

Okay.

Ella Mai (14:11)

So it was definitely still. It was. But it was still, like, quite. Yeah, yeah. Jumping. Yeah, it was. It was definitely jumping. But my grandma's also Jamaican, so a lot of the people in the church are of Jamaican heritage too, so that brings a different vibe also. But, yeah, American churches, I think, are a lot more. They're just. Everything is bigger in America.

Keke Palmer (14:30)

My grandma's church was literally called New Candyland. Why would your church be called that?

Ella Mai (14:33)

Yeah, that's great. That's crazy.

Keke Palmer (14:35)

And it was like three hours. Like, we had an intermission.

Ella Mai (14:38)

Oh, yeah.

Keke Palmer (14:38)

It was one of them.

Ella Mai (14:39)

You spend the whole day at church.

Keke Palmer (14:40)

Spend the whole day at church. But really good. Good singing.

Ella Mai (14:43)

Yeah. Yeah, really good.

Keke Palmer (14:45)

Okay. What was the first song that you remember writing, like, back in your early days of becoming, you know, a musician? Like, what do you remember being like?

Ella Mai (14:55)

Actually, when I think about it now, probably it was actually not that great.

Keke Palmer (14:58)

Baby, this is Icky Palma. Yeah.

Ella Mai (15:05)

Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner those sandals that can keep up with you and hang some string lights

Keke Palmer (15:13)

to give your patio a glow up.

Ella Mai (15:15)

Spring's calling, Ross.

Keke Palmer (15:18)

Work your magic. There is a very specific kind of joy that happens when you get three generations of your family all under one roof. And if you know, you know. I'm talking about mom teaching the grandkids something in the backyard, Daddy on the grill doing what he does best, the cousins running around being feral in the best way possible. And let me tell you, that kind of moment, you're not really getting that in a hotel. In a hotel, everybody ends up in their own room, doors closed, doing their own thing. Starts to feel more like a logistics exercise than a family memory. But when I book a stay on Airbnb, like when I went to Big Bear, it's a whole different vibe. You get a real home in a real neighborhood with enough space so nobody's on top of each other, but still close enough that everybody's part of the same story. And that's what makes it special. Spring is the perfect time to do it, before summer gets hectic and everybody's schedules take over. Find a home on Airbnb and get your whole family under one roof. Trust me, that's where the magic is.

Ella Mai (16:22)

But I didn't pick up songwriting until quite later on in my. So I went to school for music, and songwriting was a class that we did. And I always used to think I had. I don't know why, but I always used to think that you had to be like, this. This crazy poet or this crazy writer in order to be a songwriter. Yes. And just because I thought it was, like, an incredible skill, which it is, but I didn't realize. And although I grew up listening to music where it felt like people were, you know, really just explaining their lives, I didn't realize that, like, I could just explain my life or what I was going through and make it into a song. Until I did the songwriting class in school. And once I started to explore that, I was like, wow, I. I can do this. It's not something that, like, is super far fetched. So I was practicing it more, and I got in the studio. This was. I was still living in London, and I wrote a bunch of songs. I had a friend who was a producer, and I just kind of just wrote out whatever I was feeling. It wasn't even really, like, what was going on in my life. Yeah. But there was, like, a group of songs I wrote. I can't remember which one was first, but it was about a relationship, and I was kind of just, like, making it up almost honestly. But they were like A little bit darker than the lover girl that I am now. And I don't know if that was just. Yeah, I don't know if that was just. I felt like it was easier to write about heartbreak at that time. But yeah, I. I had put it on Soundcloud, like early, early, early, early days, but they were like, really short and really, if I listen to them now, I'm gonna be embarrassed. But like, that was. Yeah, I was probably about 17.

Keke Palmer (17:48)

As teenagers, I was always like, going through something. It's like, but what are you going? Yeah, but that's really dope. I like what you said about songwriting because I think in general that's how it can feel about the arts. But I feel that way especially about writing. And, you know, when people first get started and even when I first started getting writing, I always fel be some like, type of big ass thing or.

Ella Mai (18:07)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (18:07)

You know what I mean? When it's just like. It's just.

Ella Mai (18:09)

You just write whatever you feel. And even just in terms of like, depending on the genre, even if we're taking genres out of it, just like, okay, a chorus, a pre chorus, an outro, an intro. Like, how do we do? We do a B, a B? Like, you know, I just always felt like there was this whole thing when it's really just like, just go in there and do what you feel.

Keke Palmer (18:26)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (18:26)

Which I've learned obviously over my journey. But at the start, it was like a terrifying thing for me. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (18:30)

When I was looking at. When we're getting ready to do this interview, I was like, how did I miss the fact that you was on X Factor?

Ella Mai (18:35)

I was. Yeah. It's because it was the English.

Keke Palmer (18:37)

Yeah. You was on X Factor with a girl group. Arise. Yeah. So tell me about that experience and where that was in your, like, professional career. Like, you know, at what point were you when you did that and then obviously you guys didn't make it.

Ella Mai (18:49)

Yeah, I was. This was probably like the year after I started songwriting. So this. I was around 18, I think, if I'm remembering correctly. And I went to school for music and one of the girls I was in class with was my really good friend. She told me, like, oh, there's this producer that like, wants to put together a girl group now. I never wanted to be in a girl group. I was just like.

Keke Palmer (19:07)

She said main characters.

Ella Mai (19:09)

Did you. Not even. But I was just like, that just sounds like a headache. Like, I just. Yeah, it wasn't anything that I ever wanted to do, but I was like, you know what I'M in school for music. I'm not really, like, I'm songwriting, but I'm not really doing loads. Like, let me just see how it goes. So we go to the studio with this producer, we meet another girl, and that's how we end up as a three in the girl group Arise. So the school that I went to, X Factor holds, they almost, like, scout at music schools.

Keke Palmer (19:36)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (19:36)

Yeah. So they were scouting, and we were like, should we try this? Like, what do we have to lose? We don't have anything to lose. So we were like, okay, cool. We're gonna try it. And we. We went through a couple auditions. There's, like, a couple of auditions before you actually get to the TV part. And we got through all of them, and everything seemed like it was going. So I was like, oh, my God. We're, like, about to win this competition. We didn't even get to. We didn't even get to the TV stage yet. But it just felt like it was going so well. I was like, okay, cool. This. We might have something here. We get to the t. The first TV round. They loved us. Four yeses. Like, oh, you guys are just bringing something new, like, blah. Yeah. And we're like, ah. You know, everything was really exciting. This was also my first time experiencing anything that was on tv. So that was definitely a different experience.

Keke Palmer (20:17)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (20:18)

We get to the next round, and we got four no's. They completely changed.

Keke Palmer (20:23)

Ain't there only four judges?

Ella Mai (20:24)

All four that said yes turned around and said no, and I was like, dang. Like, we. We must have been really bad this time. Like, I don't know. And I didn't feel like we were, but I was like, oh, okay. And then, like, we didn't really take it to heart because this was something that we did just kind of off the whim and like, oh, we don't have anything to lose. It definitely did, like, show me more into how TV works, for sure. So that I'm grateful for. But then after that, not because of X Factor, but just because we kind of just decided, cool, we're gonna all kind of do our own thing. And then we dismantled, and then. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (20:53)

Yeah. Have you seen any of those girls?

Ella Mai (20:55)

I just saw the one that I went to school with who was like, my really good friend. I literally just saw her just after Christmas. We used to practice at her mom's house. Like, me in her mom's kitchen, and her mom would cook for us, and we would be practicing our harmonies and stuff. So I went to their house to see the whole family. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (21:09)

I love that. I love that. I mean, well, I remember when you were discovered. I. Most of anybody that was online, what, 2016 in that era, we remember seeing your videos because they were, like, going

Ella Mai (21:18)

viral after a while.

Keke Palmer (21:19)

Like, it was like you would do something and then like, oh, who's that girl again? And then DJ Mustard, he reached out to you. He obviously signed you.

Ella Mai (21:26)

Yes.

Keke Palmer (21:26)

Tell me what that was like and if there was any, like, apprehension or concern, because I don't know if you've been to. Had been to America yet or.

Ella Mai (21:33)

You know, I actually lived in New York for high school.

Keke Palmer (21:36)

Okay.

Ella Mai (21:36)

Yeah. So I had been. I'd been back and forth. I also have family out here, but I will say New York and L. A are two completely different things. So I first, When I was doing my covers, like, the very first one that I did, I obviously, again, I was just doing on a whim. I'm like, I don't have anything to lose. We had just broken up the girl group. So I'm like, cool. What can I do to try and put myself out there? This was when Instagram only allowed you to post 15 seconds. That's OG this was the very start of Instagram video. Like, no reels, no nothing like that. So. So I was like, okay, Well, I have 15 seconds, and I kind of need to make the 15 seconds count. So I was like, cool, I'll do. Had this whole plan of, like, whatever songs were popping at the moment. Like, let me do those. Because that's, you know, what smart. You know, used to hearing. Yeah. So I'm doing all of this not realizing, like, what it would be or knowing what it would be, but I was just like, let me try. So a couple videos in, as you said, they started to go viral, and I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I should probably keep doing it. Like. So I just kept doing a whole bunch of different covers. Mustard found me.

Keke Palmer (22:35)

Me.

Ella Mai (22:35)

And I happened to be in New York visiting my friends from high school, and he was doing Made in America festival.

Keke Palmer (22:42)

Okay.

Ella Mai (22:43)

Which is in Philadelphia. So he was like. You know, he had. When he first hit me up, he was like, what's your situation? Like, you know, I really love what you do. And I had no situation, no management, no nothing. I was literally singing into my phone in my bedroom in my mom's house with a YouTube backing track. I didn't even have a mic. Like, didn't have anything. Literally, just. Yeah, look, looked anyhow, I was just like, whatever. So I was like, I don't have a situation. Like, I'm just, you know, I'm an aspiring artist, blah, blah, blah. So he was like, okay, cool. I would love to work with you. So I told him, oh, I'm gonna be in New York X, Y and Zed. And so we made it happen. When he was in Philly and I was in New York, we do this first studio session in New York. I take my friends with me because, again, I didn't have management. And I was like, I don't want to show up by myself. You know, I don't know what I'm walking into. But genuinely, I could have walked in there by myself. Like, it was just such a warm environment. Like, he literally just said to me, I just want to see how you work. I'd never been in a studio this size. This was like a big studio.

Keke Palmer (23:42)

Wow.

Ella Mai (23:42)

I'm used to, like, makeshift studios or little studios, and. Which were fine. Both work. But, like, I was just like, damn, this is, like, a little bit intimidating. This is obviously. This is mustard.

Keke Palmer (23:51)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (23:51)

Had hits or, like, loads of hits already. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm just gonna give it my best shot.

Keke Palmer (23:56)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (23:56)

And we recorded three songs that night, I remember, and, like, I left the studio not really knowing. Like, he was. He gave me creative control. He was like, I just want to see what you do. I'll give you whatever you want to pick from this pack. You do what you do. And let's see. So I did that and. And I thought it was really cool that he wasn't kind of like, over my shoulder saying, do this, do that. And from there he was like, oh, I want to get you out to la. But I'd also been in situations too, where, like, people would say, oh, I want to get you here, I want to get you there. And, you know, it doesn't work. So I'm like, I didn't know what was happening with those songs. I could have demo artist, whatever.

Keke Palmer (24:29)

Right? True.

Ella Mai (24:30)

That happens. Right? So I left and I was just like, well, I gave it my best shot. We'll see what happens. And then he followed up and he was like, I want to get you to la. What's your schedule? Blah, blah, blah. So we got in contact with, like, his management, and I still, again, didn't have management, but we made it work. And I came to LA three times within a year, which is when we made all of the songs that are on the first EPS that we put out. And that was 20. Yeah, that was 10 years ago now, which is insane. I think I'm just like, where does time go?

Keke Palmer (24:57)

But I love what you were saying because I think all producers are different. Like, but Mustard does have this vibe where. And I think again, when you think about his tracks and how he can trans or his beats, how he can transform a song, it does very. Give, do your thing and then let me do my thing, and then it becomes this big piece. You know what I mean?

Ella Mai (25:13)

And the beautiful part about it, people always ask me, like, you know, in this. In this 10 year relationship that me and Mustard have had, like, what has changed? And honestly, our process is still exactly that same way. And that's something that I've always really appreciated because I've never felt, don't get me wrong, he will always tell me the truth. He'll always be like, I don't know if this works. I don't know if that works, whatever. And I've also, like, I'm a lot. I'm signed to him, but I'm allowed to work with any producer that I want to work with. It's never like, oh, you just only have to work with me. He's always been very, very open, but it's always been like that. And I. And I think that really, really helped me gain my own confidence because I could also trust myself without feeling like, okay, whatever Mustard says goes. And, you know, and even if he disagreed with me or something, if I was like, really strong and like, I really like this song, and he was like, I don't think it's the best, but if this is what you want, then we'll do that. He's always been a very, very amazing mentor and really honest and. And I'm just really grateful for that relationship because I know everybody's situation is not like that.

Keke Palmer (26:10)

Yeah, yeah. No, it's not. And definitely I was interested. It was interesting hearing you say this because I was thinking when I was listening to the album, it was a different vibe than usual, that he would usually give us some, you know, what we know, a Mustard on a bee hole.

Ella Mai (26:22)

And I think that's really what's really interesting also about our musical relationship is crazy in the timing that he met me, he said he wanted to venture into rb. You know, he was definitely just like a hip hop producer. And I think it's amazing when you look at my catalog and just the stuff that he's done, even like with Rihanna or, you know, he is definitely not what you would expect, expect Mustard to produce. And I think that is. It's really cool to be a part of that in his story also because he's very much a main part of my story, but to also be a part of that in his story is really cool.

Keke Palmer (26:54)

What would you say to other people about your story? Because it is so interesting. I look at people like yourself, and even if we think about like, og, like, you know, back in. Back, back in. Or the YouTube days with Soulja Boy or Justin Bieber, like, we've had a lot of talent, Talent over the course of time come from social media. How much of that? Because now it's overloaded.

Ella Mai (27:11)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (27:11)

And I think it's really hard to be seen. So, like, some of it is like, like, obviously you're talented as hell, but then some of it is timing, timing and just, you know, things happen at the right. Like, what would you say to that? You know, for artists? Yeah. Because it's like.

Ella Mai (27:24)

Yeah, I, I literally in, in my case, I would say really timing because it's funny because I think a lot of the time when I was doing my Instagram videos or even like when I first started releasing music, people kind of still knew me as the girl who sings covers on Instagram.

Keke Palmer (27:38)

Sure.

Ella Mai (27:38)

Yeah. I, I didn't really get to like, like LMA until Boot up happened. And even, even at the start of Boot Up Happening, people were still like, who is this? Like, people didn't know I was English. You know, like, as you said, when I sing, you can't hear my accent. So I think, like, timing. And that time, like you said too, back in the day, YouTube, like, it was like Vine Days. It was all of those things. It definitely was very different and now it is very oversaturated. But I think if I was to give anyone advice in this day and age and, and it's very different now. So I don't know if this would be great advice best, honestly, but if I, if I was to try and give someone advice, I would kind of like the mantra that I, I said to you just kind of. You always kind of have to show up as yourself. I think it's easy with social media to have imposter syndrome because you see so much of what everybody else is doing. So, I mean, like, you can look at it, even take out music and just look at content creation and, and whatever goes viral, then like 50, 000 other people do that same trend. And it's just like, it's kind of the lock of the draw because it can work for some people, but it doesn't always work, work, you know, for Everyone, but I think just trying to find things that make you an individual.

Keke Palmer (28:43)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (28:44)

In a world where everything is so much the same.

Keke Palmer (28:46)

Because really what I'm hearing you say, if we even just go and compress it further. Brand.

Ella Mai (28:50)

Yes.

Keke Palmer (28:51)

You need a brand. People got to figure out how to find their brand.

Ella Mai (28:54)

And it's. That's tough.

Keke Palmer (28:55)

It's very tough. It's literally something that I focus on always trying to teach and help even with myself, like with my platform key tv. That's kind of like one of the main messages of it is like how to build a brand and find a way to make people want to come to you for what only you can do. And that's like, that is not difficult. And most of the time it takes money, trial and error, a bunch of practice, which is very expensive. But it's like, you know, if you can find a way like every little moment to invest in yourself, it's worth it because that's how you find your voice. Well, obviously your voice is amazing. And I agree with you that when boot up happened, I mean that's when everybody knew, you know, that okay, lma, she is, she's coming through, you know, she's somebody that you need to pay attention to. It's a Grammy winning record. I mean 2018, you won a Grammy. This must have been quite crazy because it was like I was just, you know, over there in London at the church and now I done won a Grammy on my first essentially project. I mean I feel like this was from your first project.

Ella Mai (29:51)

Yeah, these were from my first eps. It was my first ever Grammy nominations. It was my first Grammys. Going like going to the Grammy, everything was just happening so quickly. I was just kind of like what is going on right now?

Keke Palmer (30:02)

Did you feel any pressure after that moment? Like. Cause when everything happens it's like woo. And then it comes down and then it's like like so now do. What does it mean to do it again? What does it mean to have continued success? Are people going to think I'm a one hit one? You know, like what were. How are you dealing with all those questions?

Ella Mai (30:17)

To be honest, I think being as young as I was, I mean I wasn't super young. I was 24, I think if I'm remembering correctly. But I think being like so new in the industry, I was like a little bit naive to what was actually happening. And I honestly when I look back now, I think that actually helped me deal with the pressure of it because now I'm very much aware of how the Industry works how? You know, like I, I see the ins else I've been in it for 10 years now. So I'm very aware at that time I had kind of just got here like you know, I was, it was my first maybe year or two, maybe my second year, but definitely my first year on like this grand scale. So having mustard by my side obviously helped because he had been in the industry for a lot longer so he could like kind of steer me in which direction to go. But I think when it came now to making my sophomore album, I, I was happy with obviously I'm forever indebted to boudup. And then we followed up with Trip which was like a great follow up. And I think that. Thank you. That kind of relieved me of the one hit wonder thing because that I was like, okay, cool. I think we're good. And even if I never do anything ever, ever again in my life, I don't think you can call me a one hit wonder. Okay. And that was very important to me because I. But even so, I think that people saying one hit wonderful is like looked at as a bad thing. Do you know how hard it is to get that one hit?

Keke Palmer (31:38)

Yeah, I agree with you. And what does it mean really when people say one hit wonder? They just mean like something that's not a massive hit. Because half the people that be caught, they be calling one hit wonders have full on albums, full blown discographies. Yeah, you know what I mean? All that type of stuff. So I agree with you. It's really faking in any regard. I mean unless there's maybe like, maybe like one.

Ella Mai (31:55)

But even, even, even if somebody is a one hit one, let's just say we take out all of that and they really just had one song that hit. Like some people don't get that in their whole career.

Keke Palmer (32:03)

It's true.

Ella Mai (32:04)

So it's just like I feel like it's looked at so negatively. But it's you, you're lucky if you get that. So I was really, really grateful one for that for it to happen so early in my career. Also then my, the success of my debut album was also just huge. I was like, when I went to record my sophomore album, I'm like, oh, so where do we even begin? Because like I was really like, like I know there's a sophomore curse. That's one thing already. My debut album was so successful. Boot up Trip, like it was so successful. I'm like, do I need to make another boot up? Like, do I need to make another trip? Like is My sophomore album, supposed to sound exactly like my debut album, you know, I mean, it was very. I was very confused and a little bit conflicted, and I think I over. I. I was overthinking it for sure. And Mustard, I remember Mustard, sat me down kind of at the start of the process and was just like, look, just do what you do. Like, all of the rest of it we will figure out once we get to the end of the process of recording. But while you're recording, if you think about all this stuff, you're not going to produce what you want to produce. And then Covid hit, so it was even more time to overthink because we were just really just, like, sitting at home.

Keke Palmer (33:13)

Covid was like lifetime. Like, it really. We all went into a time warp. I don't. I think we're still in the wormhole of that, because it was. Yeah, it changed everything.

Ella Mai (33:21)

Wow.

Keke Palmer (33:22)

Yeah. So during that time, you were just in a hot. You. Were you writing or.

Ella Mai (33:24)

I was writing. I was recording. And I was just kind of just like, trying to figure it out. Halfway through, studios opened back up, but it was like, you only had, like, a limited amount of people that were allowed to be in there. Everybody was wearing masks unless I was recording. Like, it was just a very different vibe. So that also played on. Yeah, what am I supposed to do? Because we didn't even know if people were ever gonna tour again. So it was just like, a very weird time. And I recorded 88. 0 songs in my sophomore album process, which is the most that I've ever in. I mean, I'm only three albums in, but even so, like, it was just excessive because I was just overthinking it, and the timing of it was just. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (34:03)

So in my mind, because I. I'm. I'm obviously, you know, getting your music. You know, I'm hearing it, and it. There's a very clear sense of self. There's a very clear through line. I don't know what you going on in your world when you're making it, but it seems like you know who you are and we know what to expect from you.

Ella Mai (34:19)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (34:19)

But I don't know, maybe it was there a moment where you were compromising or thought that you should. Or I gotta flip the sound up or. Or change my conversation.

Ella Mai (34:27)

No, I think. I think every time I step into the booth or into the studio, I have, like. I am a confident person. I'm definitely an assertive person. Like, very much Scorpio, as we said. And as I record, as I was Recording and writing, I didn't have the doubt.

Keke Palmer (34:42)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (34:43)

Even though. Even if some sessions weren't as great as the others and I was like, oh, I don't really love this. I'm just like, whatever, okay, cool, we'll come back tomorrow. It was really the. After I left the studio and thought about the whole process and like, looked at it as a whole piece where I was like, oh, am I doing, you know, am I doing this right? But I will say the people around me throughout my whole journey have always really, really helped keep me grounded and helped keep me up where I want to be. And I think that's really important.

Keke Palmer (35:12)

Who would those people be? You'd say, actually, oh my gosh, your mom.

Ella Mai (35:15)

I'm sure my mom, 1000%. She's always been like, like my strongest supporter, like in anything. My brother, my grandma, my friends. Like, I still have, most of my friends are still my friends I had before any of this even happened. So they definitely will keep me grounded. Like, I remember when we were going to Wendy's and we only had $5 and we were sharing a meal. They absolutely will keep me grounded. But yeah, I think I've just always had a really good support system and I think that's really helped because I can. I being in it now, especially for 10 years, I can see if you don't have that. How it's very easy. How it's very easy to get lost.

Keke Palmer (35:48)

Yeah, very. But we gotta get into the numerology of it all because, girl, you're born on November 3rd.

Ella Mai (35:52)

Yes, I am.

Keke Palmer (35:53)

But then you released a trilogy of EPs as your first project after getting signed. Then you released a three track EP titled Three on your 30th birthday.

Ella Mai (36:02)

Yes, I did.

Keke Palmer (36:02)

You have a tattoo of a three track.

Ella Mai (36:04)

I do.

Keke Palmer (36:04)

So what is this three called?

Ella Mai (36:06)

I just love that number. I love that number. I think three is a great number. Obviously I'm born on the third, which always, I don't know, it just always held a, like, really special place to me in my heart. Like, I feel like. I don't know, I feel like 1 and 2 are also very special numbers. Don't get me wrong. But there's just something about a three. Like, and I think I've always. When I think about my friendship groups, even we. I've always kind of traveled in threes. The girl group I was in was a three piece. Like, I.3 has just always been a very nugget. Yeah. A very, A very prominent number in my life. So. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (36:38)

Wow, that's so Cool. Yeah. Because I wanted to know what else it meant to you. I have numbers that feel that way to me, but I'm like. I loved how you really lined it up. I'm like, she on that left thigh.

Ella Mai (36:46)

Yeah. Low key a little bit. And this is now my third album that I just released, and obviously I'm gonna release more, but, like, so far, this is my favorite album.

Keke Palmer (36:55)

Bye bye.

Ella Mai (36:55)

No, no. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I've done three. Maybe. No, no, no.

Keke Palmer (36:59)

We definitely need more now. I thought this was also cool for your did you miss me tour. In 2025, you revisited some of your first venues. You're very sentimental.

Ella Mai (37:08)

Very.

Keke Palmer (37:08)

I'm learning about.

Ella Mai (37:10)

Extremely. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (37:10)

So, like, what was it like being back in those spaces again?

Ella Mai (37:13)

It was like a time warp, honestly. Because it had been. I did it in. 2017, was my very first time. I headlined my own shows. So going back to these venues, two of them. I did six shows. Two of the venues that I originally did don't exist anymore. So I had. We had to kind of pivot and find a venue that was a similar size and a similar area, so that was fine. So. But even so. So just being able to. It'd been a while since I was on stage, so I said to my agent, like, I just kind of want to do something to end the year. We knew obviously the album was dropping start of the year, so I was like, what can we do? That's, like, special and makes me feel like I'm giving back to my fans also for just being always so patient with me because I take long breaks in between my albums. But also for me, like, I haven't been on stage in a while. I just kind of want to feel that energy again.

Keke Palmer (37:58)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (37:59)

And I was like, what if we redid what we did in 2017? And she loved it. She was like, I think that's an amazing idea. It's like, you know, really intimate shows, and I can kind of feel like I'm having a conversation with people as opposed to it being, you know, just like, okay, we did this whole production, which is great in itself too, but I just wanted something to feel like how it used to feel when it. When everything first started. Because I feel like I don't feel like you ever get that feeling back. And I think a lot of the time we're chasing that feeling almost. Even though things progress and you want them to progress and they become great in their own way, in the new way, I just kind of wanted to feel that feeling again. And that's exactly what it did. I. I was so grateful to be able to do that and kind of get my feet wet again before we released this album and. And, you know, do a whole bunch of other shows. But it was great. I was, like, so close to everyone. People were like, I was doing old songs, like, my old set list that I don't really do anymore. People were screaming out, like, oh, can you do this? Can you do that? And it was just. And we would just kind of improvise. And it was. It was honestly everything I wanted it to be. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (38:58)

What do you contribute to your breaks in between your projects? Because I think that's, like. That, to me, makes me think about, like, TLC or even, like, a lot of the OG 90s groups and stuff like that, where. Or early 2000s, like, especially with R B, where people really did take a lot of time in between. And. Yeah, I know that there's maybe more people that do that in these days, but I do feel it's rare. I feel like most of the time, everybody's like, seven years, seven albums, boom. And it's like, you know, that's great, great. But it is. It. I do think there's something special to what we used to have where it's like, people like, five albums. This is what happened in those five years. Well, so what does it just happen for you? Is it intentional?

Ella Mai (39:34)

Yeah, it's never, like, extremely intentional. I will say that. It's never, like, right. I'm taking off four years, and my next album will come out in four years. It's never that. It just kind of has been how it's gone, really, for me. And I think in the same way you said, like, one thing that's big for you this year is making time to live. Live. I'm very big on the fact that, like, I have to go and live my life in order to be able to create. Like, I need something to speak about, like, if I'm. If I'm. And I'm always writing in between and having ideas and writing stuff down. But, like, I feel like I need to live and really experience things and, like, feel like, okay, cool, I'm ready to put this on a record before. I mean, instead of just going in the studio, to just go in the studio and be like, oh, yeah, I'm in the studio today. Yeah, I feel like I need. Yeah, I want. I want to have something to speak about. And it just so happened that each of my albums have been four years apart, and it. Yeah, it wasn't super Intentional first one being that, obviously, like I said, Covid in between. Covert also happened. This one in between. I had a baby, so, like, it kind of just happened that way. But I'm also not. I don't like oversaturation. I would. I much prefer quality over quantity, so. Which is also why I said I'm really grateful to my fans. They give me the space to be able to do that and not feel like, oh, my God, I'm going to be forgotten if I take too long. But, yeah, I just. I really feel like I need to feel proud of what it is that I'm putting out. And if that takes a little bit longer, I would much rather it take longer and put out something that I'm really proud of as opposed to, like, oh, I just need to put this out, because everybody's putting something out. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (41:02)

Yeah. But to that point, you do make songs that live, even when you're not making new songs. You know what I mean?

Ella Mai (41:07)

I try.

Keke Palmer (41:08)

It's like four years could go by, and we're still listening to what happened, you know, at the beginning of those four years, which I think is great. It's very hard to do.

Ella Mai (41:14)

Thank you.

Keke Palmer (41:15)

So let's talk about do you still love me?

Ella Mai (41:16)

Yes.

Keke Palmer (41:16)

Released February 6th, this third album. I mean, just like. So when did you know you was done with it? And when did you know that this was the album?

Ella Mai (41:25)

So we went through, like, different. Different versions of this album. I will say we knew we were done with it. Probably, like, really, really done with it. Probably, like, fall of last year, so. Or like, end of summer last year. Okay. So not that long ago. But we just wanted to. You know, we also wanted to do a complete rollout this time and kind of make it it. I wanted. I really wanted to, like, bring people into my world a little bit more. So, yeah, we wanted to create a real. I don't know, like a. Yeah. A world really, that you feel kind of immersed when you listen to. To the album. And that, again, goes back to the albums I feel like that I grew up listening to. They really created a world that you felt like you were, like, in when you listen in. So we. Yeah, we knew we were done around summertime. Ish. And I don't know, it was weird because we. We don't have any features on the album, but every time we listen to it, we kind of just, like, didn't feel like anything was missing. And it wasn't even like, oh, I'm doing an album with no features because I wanted to just be Me, it just kind of happened that way, but it was kind of. I was like, wow. Nobody feels like anything is missing, so this is the album. And it was, like. It was fun. It was probably the most fun I've had recording. As I said with my sophomore album, I was like, really in my head, said my debut album, I was, like, present, but so much was happening that I just feel like I was just, like, going with the flow. This one. I was like, I just want to go in the studio and have fun. Like, I want to remember why I love music, remember why I love making music, and just whatever comes out comes out. And if we love it today, we love it today. Hopefully, we love it tomorrow. And if we don't, then we'll. We'll try again, you know, I just didn't want to put any pressure on myself. I was also pregnant and postpartum recording this album, so that was another. That. And that was another reason why I didn't want to stress at all. I was like, I cannot be in here. Like, my sophomore album, because that's. It's also, you know, that's dangerous.

Keke Palmer (43:11)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (43:12)

So we kind of just created a space where I was with, like, the people that I'm most comfortable with. And, like, yeah, we just did it. Like, that was very few people around and just had fun. I didn't want anything to feel super, super pressured. And I love what you said about that.

Keke Palmer (43:28)

It feels very, like, immersed in my world, and you. And you opened up to us because I did feel like, you know, obviously, this is your music, and I feel like, again, this is an extension of that. But you did go really deep. I wasn't sure if these are, like, just stories that, you know, you're making up or if this is really your life, because it was really. It was. It was vulnerable.

Ella Mai (43:46)

Yeah, it was definitely vulnerable. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (43:48)

Like, was you scared at any point? Because, I mean, like, again, you're private. So it's like, we don't know. We just know. You had a baby. You popped up. It was like, damn. The baby was. She was doing something, you know? But then when we hear that album, it's like, you really. There's. There's love. And I think that is such a sweet thing to hear, because, again, this is no shade to what's going on, because whether people are in love or not, you know, we do hear a lot on the radio where it's like, get them out of here. We don't want to do. You know, and that's fine. We'd be there for that too. But you weren't afraid to be like, it's me and you, baby.

Ella Mai (44:17)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (44:17)

I was like, okay.

Ella Mai (44:18)

I think I honestly, I think that's just me as a person also, like, so I was like, you know, as I was recording this album, I don't. I don't think I even actually realized how vulnerable I was being at the time. But also, when you're pregnant, I feel like your hormones are just going all over the place. So when I look back on it, in hindsight, like, I wasn't even thinking about it, like, oh, do I let people in? Or whatever. It was just. I was just making the music that I felt, and it felt good. So before we released, I was like, yeah, this is more. Definitely more personal than my previous two albums. But, like, I feel like the music that I grew up listening to, people kind of did let you into their world a little bit more as the journey progressed. So. So I'm still in control of what I. What I'm putting out there, and I was fine with it. And I was just like, yeah, I kind of want to dig a little bit deeper into my world and the way that my brain works and the type of person I am while still holding things very close to me and that being okay. So, yeah. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (45:12)

What did people very close to you, like, your mom say or even your. Your partner?

Ella Mai (45:15)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (45:16)

Hearing you, you about to split this

Ella Mai (45:18)

out, like, you know. You know what's so funny? There's one song. There's one song on the album that we recorded on Valentine's Day last year, and I remember playing it for my best friend, and he was like, this has been my best friend from high school. Like, known him for 15 plus years. He was like, there is no way that you're putting that out. And I was like, what do you mean, like? And he's like, I just know you. Like, there's just no way. And so when I showed him the final track list, he was like, I'm proud of you. Like, I never thought that you would, you know, you would open up that much. And he was like, I'm really like, you should be proud of yourself. Because the person that I've known for 15 plus years would definitely be like, nope. But I don't know, as I get older, and definitely, like you said, becoming a mom, I just felt like it was, you know, it was. It was one of those things. And everybody around me really, I think, love to see that I, you know, that this is the way I feel and. And I feel comfortable enough to share that. I feel safe enough to share that.

Keke Palmer (46:12)

And would you say he was the baby that, like. Because I feel like this for me when I had my son again, we all are. Like, I'm 100%, but something happens that you realize there was a whole other 100% you had not even tapped into. So you would say it's the. For you that that's why you were like, oh, I didn't even know. I felt like giving this. And that's kind of how that.

Ella Mai (46:30)

Yeah, I feel like your perspective when you become a mom just changes completely. Like it's just. It's actually kind of wild. Cuz even while you're pregnant, you're still like, you know that a baby is coming, but you still don't know exactly what to expect. You can prepare yourself, you can say, right, I'm going to do this, this, and this. And then when the baby comes, it's like it's whatever the baby wants. So that can go completely out the window. But yeah, I think he's just made me. My son has really made me look at life very differently. I used to be a very black and white person. I used to be like, it's this or it's this and there's no gray area. He's just completely changed my perspective and how I look at things. And I know that like, I literally cannot control everything. Some things are just gonna happen and it's not even a big deal to not be in control as much as I used to. Like, you know, sometimes I kind of want to embrace the beauty of just spontaneity. So yeah, he definitely. I would say it's because of him. I'm thankful for that.

Keke Palmer (47:18)

So walk me through some of the song. Maybe like the top three or you know, four or five. How many you felt that most to you on the album and why?

Ella Mai (47:33)

I think the very first one, There Goes My Heart is really special to me. I think just because it was really just like allowing myself to feel. Even if, like I have felt other things before, I. I feel like if, you know, you go through heartbreak and you're like, I'm not doing this again and whatever else, but really just kind of opening yourself back up and allowing that to. To happen again was what There Goes My Heart is about. Just really kind of like, because I'm also a very independent person. I think you're, you're. You definitely give me. Yeah. So I'm just kind of like, I could do it by myself if I want to. Do you know what I mean? But then, you know, just being. Having a space where you feel safe enough to. To let your guard down and. And just kind of be you. In the chaos of all of what's going on in our careers, our work life, that's really special. So that's really what that song is about.

Keke Palmer (48:23)

And it's also beautiful because when you are a public figure, like, as a woman, maybe it's different for guys, but as a woman, when you're so obviously independent and also private but still so deeply loving, it can be hard for. For people to understand that, you know, and they want you to prove it. They always want you to come on Front street and be like, and this is where we did.

Ella Mai (48:42)

Which is crazy.

Keke Palmer (48:43)

It's too. And it's unfair because you're actually showing that love. Love by keeping it private.

Ella Mai (48:48)

Right.

Keke Palmer (48:49)

You know what I mean? And still keeping something, too. So I really get that, because a lot of times people would think that the way that I'm saying or how I am, that I'm, like, being cold, but it's like, actually, no, like, I'm the most loving ever, but I. I'm protecting my love by not being too much.

Ella Mai (49:03)

And I don't think that people who are not in it could understand it because you. You don't. You don't do, like, you know, this is not your world. So it's. And I think that things look. Look very different all the time. So they see. They see the music industry or they see the entertainment industry, and they think, okay, this is how it goes. And it's actually, like, completely different. So it's easy to obviously judge from the outside and say, oh, I would do this or I would do that or whatever, but it's like. It's just a completely different thing once you're in it. So, yeah, I think it's important to keep some stuff to yourself. I think it's important to protect, you know, what it is that you love. And. And I think we give so much of ourselves anyway just. Just in terms of us sitting down and having this conversation. You showing up to work every day, me showing up to work every day, showing up to the studio, you know, like, it. You give so much of yourself anyway, that you should feel like I have some stuff to myself. I think that's very. That's an important balance.

Keke Palmer (49:54)

And I don't want to perform love.

Ella Mai (49:56)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (49:56)

For you. You know what I mean? I don't. You know, I think that I got to be. Now we got to be. You know, that's.

Ella Mai (50:01)

And I think it's hard enough relationships in general, whether that be platonic, like with your family or whatever, or love loving relationships, it's just like they're hard enough to navigate, create outside of the public eye. Like even just everyday people who are not famous have hardships and it's just life. That's just life. So to want somebody to do that like in front of everybody, to be under a microscope and have everybody saying a whole bunch of things is just like I would prefer not to. Yeah. Yeah. So. And that's, you know, and that's that. But yeah, there goes my heart was really kind of just like opening myself back up again. So that's one that's really special to me. Little Things is a very special song to me. Me and I was really. When we. It obviously originally came out on my three piece EP called three and we put it on the album because it flowed so well with the story, but we didn't. When we put that EP out, it was really was my 30th birthday. So I was just like, you know, I've been gone for a while, let me just give them a little something. And it was. Those songs are from this album process. So it was kind of just like we hadn't even picked the track list yet. But this is what we put together and like to see the response that it got and. And how many people loved it and. And again, it's like a true lover girl, like very lovey dovey song. I was like, this is really co. Because it means that people are still out there looking for love songs. And like you said, in a world where a lot of it is like, you know, get out of here type of thing. So that really also gave me the confidence more so with my album too. Because my album is such like a lover go album. I'm like, oh, there is space for this.

Keke Palmer (51:27)

Absolutely.

Ella Mai (51:27)

There is absolutely space for this. So yeah, I don't even have nobody

Keke Palmer (51:30)

and it was good to just be like. And that would be the vibe if I did. You know what I mean?

Ella Mai (51:33)

Like to imagine to put you in the era.

Keke Palmer (51:36)

So it's. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

Ella Mai (51:38)

So yeah, Little Things is a. Is a special song for me also. And then I would say say number three. I would say I have a bunch of different favorites on a different day. It like depends on whatever day it is. But Chasing Circles, which is towards the end of the album is really special to me. It has. My son is laughing at the end of it. And that was the. That was one of the Ones that I was like, do I put this on there or do I not? Because I think it was. It was really reflective of postpartum for me, I think. And that's a whole thing in itself. And I will say I. I was quite lucky. I didn't. I didn't suffer with postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety, but, like, I can. I can absolutely see how easy it is to get really, really, like, lost in that time period, because there's a lot going on. And that's why, again, I come back to, like, the village that I have around me and all the help. Because if you don't have that, I can't even imagine how difficult that time period is. Even though you have, you know, you have something that is, like, one of the best things that's ever happened to you, but you're going through so much hormonally, like your whole world has just changed. And that song really is kind of like. Like, it just indicates the part of it where. Even on the days where I felt just like a tiny bit lost, I know I have my village, but I know in my heart of hearts, I have myself. I'm always going to find. So it's really about self, love, but, like, knowing how to find myself again, that.

Keke Palmer (52:54)

Again that. Knowing that I'm going to have myself and I'm going to have myself again. I love those two things because that's really what happens as a mom. You lose that self, the self that you knew. She's not coming back. It's okay. She's gone on. But I. I still have a self. And this is now a new self.

Ella Mai (53:12)

It just looks a little bit different.

Keke Palmer (53:12)

She honestly, like, a really A bad. Because she.

Ella Mai (53:15)

She absolutely. You know what I mean?

Keke Palmer (53:16)

Like, she actually no more than the last one, you know, but that is. That's the hurdle. I feel like for me, it was. And I definitely did have, like, anxiety. Just about you talk about, there goes my heart. There goes my heart.

Ella Mai (53:28)

Yes. Outside of your body. That. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (53:30)

You know, that shook me up a bit because I was ready to fight everybody.

Ella Mai (53:34)

Even my.

Keke Palmer (53:35)

I remember when I first came over the hospital, my mom was holding a baby and was like, go lay down. You go. She was just being loving. I went into my room and I'm

Ella Mai (53:41)

like, what do I do? Where's my child?

Keke Palmer (53:44)

It's like, girl, your mama got the back. So that is so I relate so much.

Ella Mai (53:48)

Yeah, it's. It's definitely like. It's. It's a tough time period also, because you don't know what to expect. Like, like I was saying before, like you can plan, you can put all of your ducks in a row, honestly. And it could be completely different when the baby gets here. So yeah, it's, it's just interesting because you don't know what type of person you're going to be after you have a child. You don't even know what type of person your child is going to be. So there's beauty in it. Of course. It's amazing. It's probably the best thing I've ever done in my life, honestly.

Keke Palmer (54:14)

Yeah.

Ella Mai (54:14)

But yeah, just kind of finding myself again and, and knowing that even though I might feel like this today, tomorrow can be way better and in six months. And you know, once they get now he's one and a half, I'm like, it's completely different to the newborn stage and you know, like it just feels. He's not even super self sufficient yet. He can do things obviously but like I can only imagine how it feels once you have like a five year old you can, you know, and you have three year old.

Keke Palmer (54:37)

So yeah, about say like this the three year old that you don't even know what's coming. When they get to that age they be like really talking back. My son will be like, no, I'm gonna get you, you the bad mama. And I'm like, what the hell? He turns into like a WWE wrestler. No, get out of my room.

Ella Mai (54:52)

But it's so funny to watch their personality like girl develop. Yes.

Keke Palmer (54:56)

I was gonna ask you, you don't have to answer this but did you do any of the breastfeeding? Were you into any of that?

Ella Mai (55:00)

Yeah, I, I wasn't into it. I will say that if I'm being truthfully on honest, I really wasn't into it. I did do it and I tried but I had like I was over producing and okay, but it, but I was struggling to get it out his life. Yeah, it was getting to that and I, that I said to my doctor, listen, of all of all the other things that we have to deal with postpartum, one thing I do not want to deal with is an infection in my breast. Like that's just not. So I was like stop, stop this please. Yeah, just end it here. He's, he's absolutely fine. He's huge. He looks like a three year old and he's one and a half. So like obviously if your journey is easier and, and that's what you want to do, I'm all here for it. But for me personally, good Regardless. Yeah.

Keke Palmer (55:43)

The baby getting fed.

Ella Mai (55:44)

Yeah, that's, that's, there's a reason, there's a reason that formula is. Is there? Do you know what I mean?

Keke Palmer (55:48)

Absolutely.

Ella Mai (55:50)

But yeah, I did do it for. Not for long. I did try and once I tried and I was like, I gave it my best shot. I was like, no. Did you breastfeed?

Keke Palmer (55:58)

I did, I did breastfeed for a while and it was cool. But I mean, I agree with you. It's like a full time job on

Ella Mai (56:03)

top of the full time job that you already.

Keke Palmer (56:06)

And then I was gotten into the pumping and now I got, I'm walking around with a whole like, you know, device. I got like a damn Mary Poppins bag that shit. And then sometimes people would lose my milk that I. And at that point you're dead.

Ella Mai (56:17)

Yeah. Because I worked really, really hard on this for 4 ounces.

Keke Palmer (56:20)

You know how hard for. And I mean, it was. And then you get online and you have these people with these big jugs talking about, this is what I did just in 15 minutes. And it's this big. And it's like. And you're dead too.

Ella Mai (56:30)

Like you.

Keke Palmer (56:31)

It's so stressful. I was really stressed, babe, and I was doing everything I could, but I think what really, like, honestly, what helped me to also, like, do it. And this is like a vanity piece, but I'm sure you can as you know, after mom, you're trying to get yourself back, right? It really did help me get back. Like my body.

Ella Mai (56:45)

Oh, yes, yes. It makes you lose weight.

Keke Palmer (56:47)

It made me look so I was like, I felt like. It also was like, I was like,

Ella Mai (56:50)

just, just hold on, I'm almost there. I'm almost there.

Keke Palmer (56:53)

This is for me and this is for you, you know, so, but yeah, I agree with you though. At the end of the day, the baby got fed regardless. It was like, you know, I was

Ella Mai (57:00)

like, I did my part, I tried my hardest. And as long as he's not starving, which he absolutely wasn't, I was like, cool. I'm, I'm good.

Keke Palmer (57:06)

Literally. Were there any, Were you into like working out or anything or just like hiking? Was that a concern for you?

Ella Mai (57:13)

I, I, I worked out my whole pregnancy. I stayed working out my whole pregnancy because for some reason in my mind I felt like I was like not going to carry weight. Well, sure, sure. So I was just like, let me just try and be proactive. And I actually was all belly when I was pregnant. You look so cute. Thank you. I saw the pics and it's Funny, because I was like, in my head, I was like, I guess, like, when you find out that you're pregnant, you. You have all these ideas of, like, especially your first time. I'm sure maybe it's different, like, once you have multiple kids, but your first time, you're like, oh, I wonder what I'm going to look like five months, six months, when the bump starts to show? Or like, oh, my bump's not showing yet. Like, it's just. It's a very, very. It's like a whole bunch of new things, and you don't really know what to expect. And as I was going along in my pregnancy, I was like, wow. I thought I was gonna be, like, not carry well at all. I thought, like, I don't know. I. I just felt. I don't know if it was also because my pregnancy. I tried to, like I said, stay the least stress as possible. I had so much love around me. Like, it was such a great pregnancy. I felt like I would. When I look back on my pictures, I'm like, I was glowing. My hair was, like, luscious. And, like, I just. Just, like, really appreciate that time. Looking back now because it is one of the most vulnerable times in a woman's life, and I think it's reflective also in my son because he's just like a loving. Such a loving little being. But, yeah, it was. It was. I did work out during my pregnancy. Now, after postpartum, not as much, but like you said, I was. I really was seeing the breastfeeding helping, so I was like, I'm gonna hold on for as long as I can.

Keke Palmer (58:44)

Okay.

Ella Mai (58:45)

And I've tried to do things here and there.

Keke Palmer (58:47)

We do Pilates together just for fun.

Ella Mai (58:50)

I'm terrible at Pilates. Are you? Good girl.

Keke Palmer (58:52)

I love it.

Ella Mai (58:52)

Oh, my gosh.

Keke Palmer (58:53)

Becoming an instructor, it's like my favorite.

Ella Mai (58:55)

You would probably laugh at me then. No, it's so hard.

Keke Palmer (58:58)

And honestly, sometimes people are always doing on a reformer, it's good on the mat, too, right? You know what I mean? Because sometimes a reformer could have you busting your ass. But if you're doing on the floor, it's like, we still getting the workout.

Ella Mai (59:07)

Okay. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. Cause I definitely need to get. I need to find a routine again for sure.

Keke Palmer (59:12)

Oh, that's so fun.

Ella Mai (59:13)

So, yeah, postpartum, it's definitely been a lot more challenging to find the time and just find the energy, honestly, even if I do have the time. But I know I need to get back into it. So, yeah, I'm gonna take you up on that regardless. Thank you.

Keke Palmer (59:23)

Okay. Yes. So obviously, you're into astrology. I'm into astrology, and I love.

Ella Mai (59:29)

Exactly.

Keke Palmer (59:29)

I love playing games with my guests. So we're gonna get into the zodiac of it all.

Ella Mai (59:33)

Okay.

Keke Palmer (59:33)

We're playing best and worst Zodiac edition.

Ella Mai (59:36)

Okay.

Keke Palmer (59:37)

Now, I'll read a scenario, and you're gonna tell me which sign fits best. Strictly based on vibes and lived experience. No textbooks, you know, no apologies, lots of shades. Okay. Best sign to share an Airbnb with. Ooh.

Ella Mai (59:53)

I need somebody that's gonna be clean and, like, I might say a Virgo. Cause you guys are particular, so I already know you have everything.

Keke Palmer (60:00)

Oh, it's gonna be tidy. We gonna clean up your stuff. That's how.

Ella Mai (60:03)

Yeah. Yes. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say a Virgo.

Keke Palmer (60:06)

Okay. Best sign to calm you down during a spiral.

Ella Mai (60:12)

Mm. That is a great question. I will say. Which is probably not what most people would say, but in my own experience, I would say a Leo. No, no.

Keke Palmer (60:25)

I agree with y'. All.

Ella Mai (60:26)

Which I think people. Most. Mostly people think that Leos are really, like, in your face and whatever else,

Keke Palmer (60:32)

they're wrong about them.

Ella Mai (60:33)

Yeah, I think so, too. There's a lot of misconceptions about.

Keke Palmer (60:35)

Leos are absolutely. So loyal, so kind, so. So fiercely protective of the people in their life.

Ella Mai (60:42)

Very true.

Keke Palmer (60:42)

You know, the only thing with Leo's is they're crazy when it comes to love. Yeah.

Ella Mai (60:46)

Hello. They're a little crazy.

Keke Palmer (60:48)

They gonna get rid of somebody.

Ella Mai (60:49)

But Aaliyah. Friend is, I think, a friend. A lifetime friend. Yeah. So I would say. Aaliyah.

Keke Palmer (60:54)

Yeah. Love Leo. Okay. Worst sign to call when you're already overthinking

Ella Mai (61:00)

an Aries because they be going to the summit.

Keke Palmer (61:05)

What's wrong with them? I love y' all Aries so bad, but honestly, I have a lot of, like, very close Aries, and they. And I think really what it is is because they'll send you over the edge because they just say hardcore.

Ella Mai (61:17)

The funniest thing is I have one of my best friends is Aries. So she's definitely gonna be like. But it's funny just because if you're spiraling already, they're gonna spiral with you, and they're gonna be like. But they'll try and reel it in. But she's for sure gonna spiral with me, so.

Keke Palmer (61:32)

And they're blunt and plain about it. He'd be like. And that's why I don't think he doesn't love me. And that's the thing. He probably don't.

Ella Mai (61:37)

It's very.

Keke Palmer (61:38)

Yes.

Ella Mai (61:38)

Yes. Huh?

Keke Palmer (61:39)

How did we get. You supposed to say, no, we don't. You too busy agreeing with me anyway. Best sign to give honest advice without hurting your feelings. This is a. I wonder who's going to get this.

Ella Mai (61:51)

I'm going to say a Virgo again. And I just say that. I say that specifically because of my brother. My brother will always.

Keke Palmer (61:57)

I love your brother now, too. Wait, August or September.

Ella Mai (62:00)

He's late August, basically. Right end of August 30th.

Keke Palmer (62:03)

I'm the 26th. We neck and neck.

Ella Mai (62:05)

Yeah. He's very, very honest with me. Extremely honest with. But he never. He's. He's my older brother, so he's always been protective and stuff, but he never wants to hurt my feelings. But he'll say it in a way that, like, the message translates. That's fire. But yeah. Yeah. A.

Keke Palmer (62:20)

Okay. Worst sign to ask for brutal honesty.

Ella Mai (62:26)

Scorpio.

Keke Palmer (62:26)

Yeah. Because y' all also will cut deep.

Ella Mai (62:29)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (62:30)

Because you guys just give it so plain and so just like. And it's like, guys, really. I think.

Ella Mai (62:37)

I think a lot of my friends have learned, like, if they really want the brutal honest truth to come to me, but, like, if you're not in the slightest quite ready for it, go to someone else. Don't come over here, because I'm definitely gonna give you the brutal honest truth.

Keke Palmer (62:50)

That is too funny. Okay. Best sign to trust with making group plans. I know who this could be in my mind.

Ella Mai (62:56)

Mm. Group plans is definitely not a Libra. I will say that one of my best friends is a Libra, and he. Mm, mm, mm.

Keke Palmer (63:03)

The shade of it all.

Ella Mai (63:04)

I mean, I would say a Scorpio is really good. I. At having everything together. I would say a Virgo also, because you guys have all of your Capricorns.

Keke Palmer (63:12)

Don't get a lot of love here, but they're pretty good.

Ella Mai (63:14)

Really?

Keke Palmer (63:14)

You don't think that I don't have

Ella Mai (63:16)

a lot of Capricorns around me. And the ones that I do, I don't think I would go to them for group plan. Sorry, Capricorns.

Keke Palmer (63:23)

I tried to get you both up in there. Worst sign to have as your assistant.

Ella Mai (63:28)

Ooh, a Libra. Mm.

Keke Palmer (63:31)

I had that once.

Ella Mai (63:33)

How'd it go? They're just too indecisive. They are so indecisive. My best friend will go to the shop, and it will be as simple as picking a cereal, and he will be in there for 15 minutes, I'm like, it's not rocket science. Just pick something. It's like, well, what if I don't feel like eating this tomorrow? Then you don't eat the vibe. Yeah, it's two in the vibe.

Keke Palmer (63:54)

Get out the vibe and get in the real. Yeah, like, best sign to read the room.

Ella Mai (64:00)

That's a good question. There's a couple. There's a couple signs. I think who best sign to read the room. This is probably going to be biased again, but I'm gonna say a Scorpio. I think we read the read rooms pretty well.

Keke Palmer (64:15)

I think that Scorpios do read rooms pretty well. If there was somebody else that I would say read the room, I would say an Aquarius.

Ella Mai (64:22)

Really?

Keke Palmer (64:22)

They always being sneaky somewhere.

Ella Mai (64:24)

Oh, for sure.

Keke Palmer (64:25)

You know they always. Yeah, we know y' all know we now we know y'.

Ella Mai (64:29)

All.

Keke Palmer (64:29)

Everybody know. That's what y' all be on.

Ella Mai (64:31)

They definitely are sneaky. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keke Palmer (64:33)

They love doing that. Okay. Oh, worst sign to have in your corner during a fight.

Ella Mai (64:40)

Worst sign.

Keke Palmer (64:41)

Worst sign. It depends on what kind of fight. Like physical or.

Ella Mai (64:46)

It does depend. Maybe a cancer. Just because they are so. They are loyal. Don't get me wrong. They are loyal, but I just feel like they're so loving and so, so, like peacemaker. Ish.

Keke Palmer (65:00)

The reason why I would actually say they be good is because they. With that mouthpiece.

Ella Mai (65:04)

You think so they are lethal. Okay.

Keke Palmer (65:06)

They're like a Lazarus tongue. They will literally cut you to the qua.

Ella Mai (65:10)

Okay.

Keke Palmer (65:10)

But if it's a fist fight.

Ella Mai (65:11)

Yeah, that's what I might want.

Keke Palmer (65:13)

Aries up in there.

Ella Mai (65:14)

That's what I was thinking more of. Yeah. Aries.

Keke Palmer (65:16)

You know they up.

Ella Mai (65:17)

Yeah. Why is this the move?

Keke Palmer (65:20)

Okay, just two more.

Ella Mai (65:21)

Okay.

Keke Palmer (65:22)

So sign most likely to survive a zombie apocalypse.

Ella Mai (65:26)

Oh, it's definitely not a Scorpio. I'll tell you that might not be a Virgo either because you guys are maybe a Sagittarius.

Keke Palmer (65:36)

Excellent.

Ella Mai (65:37)

Yeah, yeah, I think it's Sagittarius because

Keke Palmer (65:40)

they're going to use everything they have to get it done. They're going to be strong when they need to be. They're going to be funny when they need to be. They're going to go internal with it. Like they have a lot of range.

Ella Mai (65:48)

Yeah, they're very land. I will say that both of my parents. So a Sagittarius.

Keke Palmer (65:52)

I'm a Sag moon.

Ella Mai (65:53)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (65:55)

So last one. Sign most likely to get killed first.

Ella Mai (65:59)

I know exactly who this is in the Apocalypse.

Keke Palmer (66:02)

In the apocalypse. I know exactly. It's on the tip of. I'm a wager.

Ella Mai (66:05)

I'm scared now, girl.

Keke Palmer (66:06)

I know exactly who this is.

Ella Mai (66:07)

Ooh.

Keke Palmer (66:08)

Because they just walking around somewhere being cute.

Ella Mai (66:10)

What sign is that?

Keke Palmer (66:12)

Taurus. You see what they're doing? Walking around somewhere looking sexy and cute without even trying, y'. All.

Ella Mai (66:21)

That's funny. That's funny.

Keke Palmer (66:22)

That's what them Tauruses think about. Every Taurus, you know, they somewhere being cute.

Ella Mai (66:25)

Yeah.

Keke Palmer (66:26)

And they ain't saying too much. They just like.

Ella Mai (66:30)

And they're out of here in an apocalypse. I don't know. I think I know a few Tauruses that might. They might not be the first to go. They definitely won't be the last. They definitely won't be the last one standing, but I don't know. I feel like. I feel like I would go more with a Libra.

Keke Palmer (66:43)

The Libras? Yeah, the Libras. Because they over there with the scales somewhere.

Ella Mai (66:46)

Yeah. They can't decide what to do next thing you know. Done. Wow. Yeah, this was good. That was a. Yeah, that was a fun game.

Keke Palmer (66:54)

Well, thank you so much, Ella. Seriously, I've had a ball with you, and it's so great to have you on the show.

Ella Mai (66:59)

Thank you.

Keke Palmer (67:05)

All right, y'. All, that conversation with Ella was everything. She is such a good time. Hearing her talk about her music, her family, and the choices she's making right now felt real in the best way. Way grounded, honest, and intentional. She's never compromising herself for anyone, and none of us should. So wherever you are in your own life, make decisions that feel true to you and ignore the rest. I know I do. See y' all next time. Baby, this is Keke Palmer. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. Yeah.