How Spirituality Can Transform Your Love Life with Pastor Michael Todd

Summary

Summary of "How Spirituality Can Transform Your Love Life with Pastor Michael Todd"

Episode Title: How Spirituality Can Transform Your Love Life with Pastor Michael Todd
Host: Wondery’s Keke Palmer
Release Date: December 24, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of “Baby, This is Keke Palmer”, Keke Palmer delves deep into the intersection of spirituality and romantic relationships with esteemed guest Pastor Michael Todd. Known for his dynamic approach to faith and relationships, Pastor Todd shares invaluable insights on building strong, spiritually grounded partnerships aligned with divine principles.

Guest Introduction

Keke introduces Pastor Michael Todd, the lead pastor of Transformation Church and a New York Times bestselling author. Pastor Todd is renowned for his ability to make faith relatable and actionable, particularly for younger audiences seeking meaningful relationships.

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Building Relationships Rooted in Faith

[16:26] Pastor Michael Todd:
"For me, I believe that all of us are actually spirits having an earthly experience."
Pastor Todd emphasizes the importance of recognizing our spiritual essence in establishing and nurturing romantic relationships. He believes that acknowledging our spiritual selves is crucial for creating connections that transcend the physical realm.

The Power of Spiritual Alignment

[22:30] Pastor Michael Todd:
"People spiritually are unequally yoked."
Pastor Todd unpacks the biblical concept of being "unequally yoked," explaining it through the metaphor of oxen pulling a yoke. He highlights how mismatched spiritual foundations can lead to misalignment and challenges in relationships. This spiritual disparity often results in imbalance and conflict, hindering the relationship's growth and harmony.

Establishing Boundaries in Relationships

[25:15] Pastor Michael Todd:
"Boundaries are a blessing."
Addressing the delicate balance between closeness and personal space, Pastor Todd discusses the significance of setting boundaries. He explains that boundaries are essential for personal growth and maintaining self-respect within relationships. By establishing clear limits, individuals can foster healthier dynamics and prevent emotional depletion.

Embracing Singleness as a Season of Growth

[33:54] Pastor Michael Todd:
"Singleness is not a curse, that's a blessing."
Pastor Todd sheds light on the value of singleness, portraying it as a period of self-discovery and spiritual deepening. He encourages listeners to view singleness as an opportunity to strengthen their relationship with God and themselves, ultimately preparing them for more fulfilling future relationships.

Integrating Entertainment in Religious Practices

[35:02] Pastor Michael Todd:
"Entertainment is about keeping somebody's attention."
Pastor Todd explores the role of entertainment in religious settings, advocating for its use as a tool to engage and retain congregants, especially younger audiences. He argues that incorporating elements of entertainment can make spiritual teachings more accessible and impactful, fostering a vibrant and dynamic church environment.

Interactive Segment: “What Would Pastor Mike Do?”

In a lively segment, Keke engages Pastor Todd in a game where he addresses various relationship scenarios, providing practical and spiritually informed advice.

1. Scenario: Suspecting a Partner of Cheating
   [42:04] Pastor Michael Todd:
   "If we supposed to be doing this thing. I believe in transparency and honesty. Ain't no secrets, ain't no WhatsApp."
   Pastor Todd underscores the importance of honesty and openness in relationships, discouraging secretive behaviors that can erode trust.

2. Scenario: Financial Setbacks in a Relationship
   [44:58] Pastor Michael Todd:
   "Having the right people is more important than having paper."
   He advises prioritizing the strength and compatibility of the relationship over material aspirations, emphasizing that true connections can withstand financial challenges.

3. Scenario: Navigating Gender Roles and Financial Responsibilities
   [46:38] Pastor Michael Todd:
   "People use that as ammunition to defend themselves against their own insecurities."
   Discussing gender roles, Pastor Todd advocates for mutual respect and understanding, highlighting that financial contributions should not be a source of insecurity but rather a component of a balanced partnership.

Key Takeaways

• Spiritual Foundations: Building romantic relationships on a spiritual foundation fosters deeper connections and mutual growth.

• Boundaries and Self-Love: Establishing boundaries is essential for self-respect and the health of the relationship, promoting personal and collective well-being.

• Value of Singleness: Embracing singleness as a period of self-exploration and spiritual strengthening prepares individuals for more meaningful future relationships.

• Role of Entertainment in Faith: Utilizing entertainment in religious practices can enhance engagement and make spiritual teachings more relatable and memorable.

• Transparency and Integrity: Maintaining honesty and openness is crucial for trust and longevity in relationships.

Conclusion

Pastor Michael Todd offers a profound perspective on integrating spirituality into love lives, advocating for relationships grounded in faith, honesty, and mutual growth. His insights provide listeners with practical tools to navigate the complexities of modern relationships while staying true to their spiritual values. Keke Palmer aptly highlights the universal applicability of these principles, encouraging all listeners to seek relationships that elevate and support their personal and spiritual journeys.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the core discussions and insights shared by Keke Palmer and Pastor Michael Todd, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Keke Palmer]

This episode is sponsored by the good old folks over at Airbnb. This holiday season, be sure to check out the most loved homes on Airbnb by taking a look at guest favorites. Take it from me, some trips are better in an Airbnb. Now let's start the show. Hey, it's your girl, Keke Palmer here again. And today I've got someone who's all about to taking relationships to the next level. He's a pastor, an author, and someone who's been helping couples everywhere build strong foundations rooted in faith. Pastor Michael Todd is sitting down with us to talk about what it means to build a spiritual relationship within our romantic relationship and how to align your love life with God's plan. So get ready, because, baby, this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling, pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all Especially the fact as money always evol no matter what it is we gonna make it make sense Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings so grab you a drink and a snack, you enjoy and get into the vibe that only you know it's your girl. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah. So how you doing, Mom?

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I'm good. How are you?

[Keke Palmer]

I'm good, too. Glad to be in the studio with you.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yes. I love those glasses.

[Keke Palmer]

Thank you so much, Zinni. Okay, so let's get right into it. I'm talking to Pastor Michael Todd today. Do you know who that is?

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I did not know.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I didn't know about him or anything. I just, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

So, I mean, he's a pastor. He speaks a lot about relationships. I feel like he really tries to take a very, like, millennial kind of, like, approach to his conversation. Like, he really tries to bring his background and I don't know. I think he went viral for this Easter Sunday production that was like, huge, very much so. Like those big, mega church type vibes where they put on the show and the music and et cetera. I mean, there was aspect to it where he was preaching. He spit in his hand and wiped it on the man's face. And a lot of people were like, oh, hell no.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

And this was online.

[Keke Palmer]

This is like online. It was like, you know how they do it, what's happening in the church? So he got a lot of mixed reviews. Obviously he has a huge support.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Where's he from? The church?

[Keke Palmer]

I think Oklahoma.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

And it's called Transformation Church.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

So, yeah, so that's how I first came to know him. I'm looking forward to talking to him because I feel like he really is, you know, doing his best at trying to keep people's attention. But obviously there's such a big conversation around, like, what is self indulgent, what is self grandiose? And then how much entertainment can be allowed in the church when you preach. And I mean, I'm curious with you, because obviously there's a different kind of attitude when it comes to Catholic church. And when the deacon is up there or the bishop or whatever, or the priest. And then in Baptist church, where sometimes I do think there's a lot more energy in the Baptist church, it can.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Get pretty theatrical in the church, you know, and that used to be one of my main problems. Like, I was a choir member. I was the director of the choir. And it just seems like there are a lot of personalities in there. And sometimes it can feel like you're like in a. Like a R and B situation, you know what I mean? Because it's just very cliquish. It's also very like, if there's a great singer, sometimes that person is treated a certain way. You know, the pastor, kids are treated a certain way. And there's a whole little a level of politics is what you're saying. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a level of politics.

[Keke Palmer]

I will be honest. A lot of people love megachurch vibes. I think that I'm used to more of a smaller church, like a more kind of like, intimate type of vibe. But I can't say one over the other. I think how you feel you could receive faith, the best is the way. So if people like the theatrics, then, hell, you know, enjoy the theatrics.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

That's what I see.

[Keke Palmer]

And if you want something a little bit more docile, then, yeah, then you like that. But I don't know that one is more wrong or whatever. I think it's preference. Right.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I think it's preference. I also think that, you know, if your heart is in the right place and he's trying to motivate the congregation and they're responding to it and he's not doing no harm. You know what I mean? He's not telling anybody to do anything wrong.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Then there's nothing wrong with it. But I remember, like, one of our favorite shows was Greenleaf. Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Greenleaf did have some crooks, though.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yes. It.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. I love Keith David. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

And it was. And it was like Keith Davis character. He Played the dad who was like the lead bishop, the pastor. He was a good and a. You know, he had bad.

[Keke Palmer]

He was nuanced, which I think was.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

The point of the show, too, which.

[Keke Palmer]

I do love when people speak on that, because I do think there's this idea where it's like, if you prayed up, you got to be perfect. And then it's like, you're not perfect. You have no place in the church. And it's like, but nobody on earth. Like, I love the thing when they say, you know, the person who I forget, I'm gonna butcher it. But it's like, whoever's cast the first stone, what is it? What does that have to say?

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Cast whoever. Thee without sin, cast the first stone.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, I butchered it, too.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

But you know what we trying to say. If you ain't got no skeletons, then throw the stone. If you got shit going on, then don't throw the stone. Now that's what I was trying.

[Keke Palmer]

So what I love about that, which I think most of the time we think about, like, oh, yeah, you know, if you ain't perfect. But what I loved about it was even the perfect person in that situation who said that, which was Jesus.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Amen.

[Keke Palmer]

Even he didn't cast the stone.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

So it's like kind of. I don't want to say sarcastic, but it's kind of like that's the whole thing that it's saying unto itself is that actually, even if you can cast a stone, show grace.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

Because as a leader, that's your responsibility, is to lead with grace, kindness, and compassion.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Absolutely.

[Keke Palmer]

Because Jesus could cast the stone.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Absolutely.

[Keke Palmer]

But even he didn't.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

So why are you type? Vibe. Exactly. And I also just feel like if Pastor Todd, if he's trying to reach a younger audience and he's trying to get them engaged, and he's talking about relationships and young relationships. I think it is important to be nuanced. I think it is important that they don't come and see the same old thing. Now, if it's being theatrical and it's over the top and there's no real message to it, and it's just people being performative, then that's another thing.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, but honestly, online, it's easy to get things without the full conte. Sometimes you'll just get one second or one little blip, and then you're making like. I mean, maybe the people that's in there every Sunday with him, they rocking with that. And it's like, feels totally full, like A through line.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Right.

[Keke Palmer]

But if I'm only seeing one clip and you spitting on your hand and slapping somebody on the forehead, well, yeah, that'll take anybody back.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yeah. Well, I just hope the person he did that to was okay with it.

[Keke Palmer]

The man was up there looking happy, in my opinion.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Well, hey, look, if he happy with.

[Keke Palmer]

The spit, so am I. Anyway, so let's get into. I want to talk to you a little bit about relationships in faith. Obviously, dad is a deacon. You grew up in a church. You became Catholic after marrying him, which a lot of times they say is the opposite. You know, the husband goes into whatever the wife religion is. But I just wanted to know, did you build a greater sense of faith with dad? And you might have talked a little bit about it before on the show, but I'm curious.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I've always felt that my relationship with God was strong. Like, I was raised to, you know, pray and to talk directly to God. So the whole go through the priest and confession was kind of very. And to be honest with you, I've never done it. That was a part of Catholicism I totally rejected. It was like, no, you are void. I'm not going to tell this little old white man with a bald head any of my problems. Sorry, I may have murdered, but you will never know. So I rejected that one. The whole concept of going into that little dark box, you know, spilling my guts out. And then Larry would tell me, well, you don't have to, like, tell everything. You could just say something like, I lied today at work, or I did that. That's too much. That's just too damn much too. I'm not gonna tell him anything. So I rejected that part of it. But I think my relationship was good. I think what I wanted to do. And I was a young woman, I was like, maybe 24, 25 years old. What I wanted to do was to find a faith and a church for my children.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, you kind of said it. But I guess what I want to get to is, how did you think about the role that faith could play in not just your marriage, but with your kids? Because I do feel like it was an active thing for you and dad when it came to us and having a faith. Like, I remember when I was really, really little, it was like every Sunday on the dot, to the point where me and Loreal would be literally like, I don't want to go to church. Like, you guys were serious about church. We were always at a church banquet. We was always in a vacation Bible school. We was always doing something in the church. And it was almost like ridiculous, but. And I remember our cousins used to tease us, but they would come every Easter and Christmas and get the baskets, you know. But why was that so important to y'all?

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Well, for us it was so important. Like I said, it put you guys in a structure. One thing about church, because some people argue, should you go to church? Shouldn't you go to church? Why do you go to church? You don't have to go to church. I think it just puts you in a communion, a congregation of people that are like minded, you know what I mean?

[Keke Palmer]

Striving for the same goals.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Striving for the same goals. Having little kids. Wanting your little kids to have a set of values. You want them to know about Christ and religion and faith and discipline and all of those things. And I think that that's, to me was the most important thing about a church. Whatever faith it is, is that it's coming together with like minded people that want the best out of life, you know?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

And no, no, no, everybody's not perfect. You know, I've gone to churches where I, you know, like, oh, this church is something. But for the most part, I would say at least 70% of the people that are in, in most churches are there for a good reason, so.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

You know, they're trying to, you know, like I say, find like minded people, people that have little. Like for us, we had little kids, so we started talking and being friends with other people that had little kids, you know, and then you had a playmate and now you got a playmate. When the parents have values, you know what I mean? Versus you sending your kids to play.

[Keke Palmer]

With people that are, you don't know, maybe their life doesn't mean nothing wrong with them. But you don't have a starting point.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Right? Exactly.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, exactly. I think what you believe in, your faith and your moral compasses, it's not a terrible thing to at least find a common ground in.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Absolutely. And we all know of those homes in everybody's neighborhood where there is no supervision, you know, where the mothers is, you know what I mean? It doesn't have anything to do with going to church and not going to church, but not having a set of values, you know what I mean? And you send. Everybody had their house in the neighborhood. Oh, Mr. So and so house, Mr. Wright house. Or you know, where everybody getting high and the parents are smoking weed with the kids and you know, you're like, what the hell kind of house is this? This is the house of irrebuke. What's going on here? There's no church going on up in here, so. Yeah, but maybe it is.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's the gag.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yeah. And like I said, I'm not gonna be sitting here being, you know, naive into thinking that if you go to church, that means you're a good person. I don't really, you know, I don't really make that judgment. I just think if you make an effort to have faith and go to church on a regular basis, then chances are you are trying to be a good person.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I mean, you're trying.

[Keke Palmer]

I think on a small scale, you're just also speaking to maybe, like, just commitment.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Commitment to something. Discipline.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

And that's. It's funny you said that, because that's why I asked your father, when he said he wanted to be a deacon, I said, why do you want to be a deacon? He said, well, because, you know, I want to feed the homeless. You know, I want to help the people in the church. I want to. He listed all these things that he was already doing. I said, you already come home from work and make chili and take it to the homeless shelter. You already do it. Why do you need a title? I thought it was an ego thing. I was like, why do you need a title? And then he hit me with the. You know, he always got these deep words that make you feel foolish. He goes, because if I become a deacon, it is a commitment that I cannot back out from.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

I was like, ain't just some shit.

[Keke Palmer]

It's funny because I was watching this TV show, Evil, and I know I've been talking about this show so much, but it's so interesting to me, and it speaks about the connection.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

That show scares me.

[Keke Palmer]

It's so scary, but good. But that man, Mike Holter.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

He remind me of dad, but he's a priest in the show.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yes, yes.

[Keke Palmer]

And he said that he was like, with all the things that's going on in this world and things that have no promise, I'm committed to God. And that means something to me. And that is something that I cannot back down from. And that really. I was like, larry.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Like, I just love.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yeah. But that's what he told me. He told me. He said, I want to be a deacon because that means I'm making a commitment that I cannot, you know, back away from.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

And I, you know, I had to respect that. I was like, oh, okay, here we go. Opie Taylor.

[Keke Palmer]

All right, it's time for me to get into this conversation. With Pastor Michael Todd. Thank you, Mom.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

You're welcome.

[Keke Palmer]

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[Pastor Michael Todd]

I'm great. What's going on? My sister, I'm so glad to be here with you. And you look beautiful. Your spirit is radiating, and I'm excited for this amazing conversation we get to have and everybody else gets to have with us.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. I couldn't agree more. Now, New York Times bestseller. I need to get some tips from you because you've already had a New York Times bestselling book. Okay. And then now you have a new book that you just put out called A Cup of Love this year. How are you feeling about that being out here and especially coming out of such a successful previous book?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

So you gotta realize, my journey to being an author is one that is not even something I could have imagined. Like, I barely graduated high school. Okay. So, like, being a three time New York Times bestselling author, like, my baby mama had to help me with my homework in high school. Like, you know, it was.

[Keke Palmer]

Come on, baby mama. That's a good one.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Come on, baby mama. And so to think that God could take something that I felt deficient in and turn it into something that helps so many people is just a blessing. And this last book, A Couple Love, is so special because I actually wrote this with my daughter.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Wow.

[Keke Palmer]

How old is your daughter?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

She's 10 years old. Oh, my gosh. And so this whole book, A Cup of Love, is a story about why me and her mom go on date night every Tuesday. And it's a real story that happened in our lives. And we thought it would be important for people to understand how the relationships that you put a priority on actually give back to you and give you the life that you want. And so me and my daughter wrote this book called A Cup of Love Together. And it's touching families and helping people. And it's a derivative of my first book, Relationship Goals, how to Win in Sex, Marriage and Dating. And we're just trying to make it something that we don't wait till we're 30 plus to figure out how to do relationships right. Like, we teach our kids how to do relationship right, and that would change everything.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I love that because you do have the Subtitle on the new book A Cup of Love Relationship Goals for Kids. And I was wondering what that meant, and you just explained it. What inspired you to write it? Was it simply just now wanting to translate that conversation after the success of the first book for adults, you just wanted to get it started for the kids too?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Well, the truth of the matter is all of us are little kids trying to live in this adult world. And if you don't deal with the issues that you had when you were six, they just follow you till you're 46 and 56 and 66. And so the truth of the matter is, is when people are insecure or feel rejected or not seen at that young age, that's why they do all the things that they do when they get older. And so I thought that what better way to be able to start the process, not just of helping people find relationship goals and get their relationships in order when they're adults, but what if we could just like, actually give a blueprint and a playbook for us to teach our children how to do the same thing? And so for me, I have four kids, and one day they gonna be dating somebody that I might have to kill. And, you know, I want them to know their worth, I want them to know their value. I want them to understand that there is a right way to do relationships and a lot of people out here playing. And I think that if we can start that conversation young, that there would be a foundation on the inside of them that will follow them and they'll know the right way to go. And so for me, I'm a man that thinks generationally, and I want people to be blessed no matter if you're in your 60s, 70s, or you're 6 or 7. And I think that's why we decided to do it like this.

[Keke Palmer]

I love the double entendre, Joe, of the kids and us all being kids, because sometimes we even need to strip it back and bring it down to the simplest form so that we can re engage. So I love that it's literally kids, but then also for the kid in us, that still needs to relearn and unlearn some things that may be holding us back.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

You talking, right?

[Keke Palmer]

So today I want to talk to you about the idea of building spiritual relationship within a romantic relationship, which you talk a lot about. What does spirituality bring to a romantic relationship?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

You would say, well, the truth of the matter, for me, I believe that all of us are actually spirits having an earthly experience.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I totally agree with that.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

The truth of the matter is, like, our bodies are potentially the least form of us. You know what I'm saying?

[Keke Palmer]

I couldn't agree more.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

And so our spirit knows when we walk in a room and something is off. Our spirit knows when somebody's trying to play us. Our spirit knows when we're in the wrong position. Yet we give honestly not enough time paying attention to our spiritual life. And so I think that for me, when you talk about your spirit, that's actually who you are. Like, that's what I believe is going to live beyond the 70, 80, 40, 90 years we get on this earth. And so, for me, I really do believe that it's time for our generation to take more time and intention on feeding, actually building up and actually making sure our spirit is healthy. And that for me, I really believe the adage that healthy things grow. And so if you make sure your spirit is healthy, then you can align with other people whose spirits are healthy. But the truth of the matter is, most people, because they don't think the spiritual is important until it's around death or around, like, a bad situation or around being scared. They never actually are intentional with it. And so for me, I just think your spirit is you.

[Keke Palmer]

And I think to your point, it's also quite difficult when we aren't in a totally spiritual realm. Right? We have to live with the binary aspects of life. Sometimes there's no nuance, especially in today's day. And everything is very this or that, up or down, left or right, black or white. And so I do think it becomes difficult to. How do I pull this spiritual element of myself in something that doesn't really allow it to exist? What are some of the most common ways you see a romantic relationship suffer from not incorporating spirituality into it?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Well, people use this scripture all the time, but I believe there is some real power to it. People spiritually are unequally yoked.

[Keke Palmer]

What does that mean to you? Let's. Let's unpack that. Because, you know, you hear it so much. So what would you describe it as to somebody that doesn't, you know, know what that means or. Oh, that's cliche.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yeah, yeah. No, this is not cliche. This is actually very practical. And this is why I love studying the Bible, studying history, studying all this other stuff because a yoke was actually put on oxen. And so what would end up happening is back in the day that when you would try to pull something or you would be plowing the farm, you would need two very strong oxen on the same thing, and they would be tied around the neck with each other so that when they would move, it would move in synchronicity and it would be at the same level. But if you got one ox that was strong and one ox that was weak, it would start to turn because they were unequally yoked, one was a lot weaker than the other and you weren't able to go straight in a path or be able to reach the end goal because there wasn't equal strength. And I think that's what it comes to sometimes spiritually is that we get or even just relationally or even just maturity wise, that many times we'll get with somebody because they look good, baby is fine, or my man's got the six pack or they're business savvy or whatever the thing is. But you didn't go deeper. You didn't see what their value system looked like. You didn't see what their character actually has produced. You didn't see where their spirit is either fed or neglected. And so you get into this thing, you begin to love these people, you begin to buy houses with these people, have kids with these people, go on vacations with these people. And then one day you wake up and you realize, oh, like I'm stronger in this area that they don't even value or I'm hurting in an area that they don't care about. And a lot of times that's why people go in circles in relationships is because they've never actually either built up the strength to be with somebody that is on the same page and same level. And I'm not saying perfect, but I am saying progressing.

[Keke Palmer]

I love the word that you just said there because I think this is something that everybody wants to know, guys and girls, when it comes to this idea of relationships and understanding, especially when you're a faithful person, you believe in forgiveness, you believe in patience, you believe that people can grow. What are the delineating factors that allow you to know that this person can't get stronger? Right? Like there's an idea, like what do we think about, like we're not equally yoked right now, but maybe eventually, you know, well, how do we deal with that as a Christian person? How do you deal with the realities of not throwing someone totally away but also not bringing them close enough if they are going to make you sick? Like, what are those?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

I love it.

[Keke Palmer]

You know that's tough, right?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yeah, it's a tough thing. But I think one word, it's a B word and it's a four letter word for Some people, but it has more letters in it. It's called boundaries. Boundaries are a blessing. And most people cannot see themselves giving somebody they love or they really like a boundary that would allow them to have the space to grow into who they're supposed to be. And so a lot of times we're playing house, where there actually needs to be a boundary. Like, you don't get to touch all on this. You don't get to have me on speed dial. You don't get to do this until I see some growth in that area, until I know that you can make me a priority, until I know that this is important to you. And so, yes, it is difficult sometimes because we all want to see the best, especially the people that we have memories with and have had time with. But until you set a boundary, sometimes people don't understand the blessing of who they can become after there's a boundary set. And so showing you over and over and over and over again that this is not important to them, growing in these ways are not important to them. Sometimes you're better off stepping back because what you're getting is. You're getting desensitized to what your worth is.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. Yes.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

And so what ends up happening is you start settling for things that are below things you would ever settle for with anybody else, but because of time served or how many moments you have or the children you have with these people.

[Keke Palmer]

And I think, honestly fear which a relationship, whether it's for you or not, it's challenging you also to love yourself more and to be able to say, this is what I need, or this is what I can't do it. It's so important to have those boundaries. But it is difficult when you aren't completely having a strong relationship with yourself and love with yourself inside. To say no to that person, to actually show them the love that you're showing yourself enough to have that boundary. It's really tough, though. It really is.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

It's difficult. It's difficult because. And I actually believe that the only way you can do that is by having a strong relationship with God. So once you have a strong relationship with God, that changes the way you see yourself, which Dean, can change the way you love somebody else.

[Keke Palmer]

So let's break that down. Let's talk about what that looks like, how that looks. Right? Because I think sometimes people hear these things, like, what does that mean? How does that mean? How do you reach that? I remember when I was doing this movie called Joyful Noise. It was about music in the church and family and community, all this stuff. And this man, he was a part of the ensemble of the choir, and he was talking about him and his wife, and he said, being married is the closest you could be to God. And I thought, what is he talking about? What does that mean? I didn't understand. I was 17, but as I've gotten older, I really started to understand what that means, what that looks like, how. What a commitment means in that way. What is the reward at the end of that commitment, what it looks like going through hard times with someone and still choosing them and having that love, the same love that God has for us. So I'm curious for you. How would you explain that journey of internal love with God and being able to share that outwardly, if that's the way you would say it?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

So the beautiful thing about having a relationship with God is there's this book called the Bible, that there is a lot of principles as well as facts as well as historical moments that allow us to look at the love of God in action. So that's the first part of it. The Bible says, for God so loved the world, not because he was bored or because he needed something. He said, because he. He's loved the world. He gave. Well, right there.

[Keke Palmer]

Just. Come on.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Just right there. If you take that principle, extract that principle, that means if you love, you have to give something.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Like. And the truth of the matter is, most of us live selfishly. Like, the only reason I'm trying to do this is so I can get something or I can have sex, or I can be with you, or I can. You know what I'm saying? But like. Like, switch that. How do you define love if there is not some type of exchange, sacrifice, and service? And that's where, for me, I made a decision early on. I was like, the Bible tells me that I cannot love my neighbor, my girlfriend, my wife, except to the level I can love myself. And so I got to figure out how to love myself. And the only way I can love myself is by going to the manufacturer, the one who built me. If my iPhone breaks.

[Keke Palmer]

Come on.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

If my iPhone breaks, I could actually ask my brother or my friend or people who watch a bunch of things like, how can you fix this? But the sure way to know how my iPhone works is to go back to the manufacturer who made it. And I think for me, that's why reading the Bible is important. Prayer and meditation is important. Listening to worship music, listening to sermons and getting different things, because it helps me know more about me, my relationship with God. Which allows me to love myself, myself. And then I can extend that love to somebody else.

[Keke Palmer]

Baby, this is Icky Palma. Yeah. As I was saying earlier, Audible's best of the year picks are in. And, honey, I am set. Every year, Audible puts together a list of the best of the best when it comes to audio entertainment. I'm talking top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals in all your favorite genres. The works. Okay, now my ears are immediately perked up when I saw that they listed Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's memoir, Lovely One, as one of the year's must listen titles. I checked it out and it basically felt like I was having a heart to heart with the first black woman on the Supreme Court. Okay, really powerful stuff, y'all. From memoirs and sci fi to mysteries and thrillers, from romance and well being to fiction, Audible's carefully curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment. Audible. I mean, there's more to imagine. When you listen, go to audible.com bestoftheyear and discover all the year's best waiting for you. You talk about the importance of being single as a time when God reveals to you who you are. I think we often try to skip over that part, and I really would love for us to have a lot more kindness and patience with ourselves that only through lived experiences of what we don't want do we find what we need. Right.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Come on, man.

[Keke Palmer]

And so talk to me about that time in your life where you met your wife when you were 15, but then you guys took a break for a period of time.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

What did you call it?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

The 10 months of insanity? That's what happened for me because I was listening to other people. I was listening to culture. I was listening to people who did not have what I had, thinking I needed something else. And I didn't realize that God had given me the most precious gift I would ever get at a young age. And I had to grow up from a boy to a man to understand how valuable that treasure was. And so through that 10 months of being away and acting up and talking to her and trying to be with her and doing all of these different things, I realized that there were many parts in me that I didn't even know who I was because I had not given myself space in single to actually be silent still and observe it in who I am and what I wanted. And so I could easily allow people to throw in suggestions and opinions, and I would go with that. But I Didn't know what Michael wanted. And I think that we have such a noisy generation right now where there's so many opinions and it's just an.

[Keke Palmer]

Easy access to information and it's hard.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

To access through everything and you can't filter. And so everybody feels like I need to be in a relationship. People holding balloons up in white rooms and popping them, trying to get find somebody you love. That show at times, no, it's actually hilarious. But the truth of the matter is, look at all of the people who, some of them, if they would just take a year to discover who they were. Like, if they would just know. Because when you meet somebody, you're actually reflecting off of them who you are. And the truth of the matter is, most of us don't even know who we all reflect thing. And that's why my prayer for every person out there that is in their singleness season, I need you to know that is not a curse, that's a blessing. Like, singleness is not something that is like, oh, I can't wait to get in that. I'm telling you, there's some things in singleness that, that you'll never get again. When. When you get in a relationship, you don't get to. You don't got to check in with nobody. You don't got to worry about nobody else what they want to eat. You don't got to worry about how your emotions are feeling. You can really learn how to love self. And so I tell people all the time, time like that season of singleness that you're in is actually preparation.

[Keke Palmer's Mom]

Yeah.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

And we know that the best meals are not ones that we get fast. The best meal doesn't happen in 15 and 20 minutes. It's not microwavable. It's something that takes time. And I just think that that singleness season is a time of discovery and a time where you can get closer to God and discover the things that nobody else can tell you. So that when you do get in relationship, it actually prospers.

[Keke Palmer]

And for you, which I think is a really big piece for all of us when we're talking about this, is it also seemed like it was a time for accountability. You know, you can actually sit and think like you said you thought about it and say, okay, wait a minute. How can I readjust? And how can I reflect on the role that I play? Which I'm sure maybe in her own way, she did the same things. You know, they were able to bring you guys together. Now, I do want to talk about all this information Online, trying to filter through the information you're receiving. I mean, you get a lot of attention, specifically in the way that you preach the word and people's expectations of what it should look like for a pastor, how he should be, but the role entertainment has in that. So I want to break this down in a couple of sections. My first question to you is, what do you think the role of entertainment is or can be in religion?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Well, I think that word entertainment, depending on who's saying it, seems bad, but I think that it's about keeping somebody's attention. Like, entertainment is not the way that I would describe anything that I'm doing. I'm trying to make sure that I have somebody's attention. And I'm really preaching to me. I'm preaching to the young black male who doesn't like church. Can't stand what happened in my grandma's church. Really want to be at the game, don't care about what's happening. And I'm trying to smash old girl sitting over there. Like, that's who I was. And so when I come into church and they don't acknowledge me, they don't do any. They just say cliches, and they're not trying to teach me anything. I'm checked out of that. And that's why so many minorities, especially young minorities, are out of church, because it doesn't make any sense, especially in the world that we live in today. Like, the story of the Bible is the most interesting story, the number one sold book in all of history. The principles in it can transform your life. And for me, it transformed my life. And so, Kiki, like, I made a decision. Like, when I went from being a liar, a manipulator, addicted to pornography, a bad person, had all kinds of crazy stuff in my heart. When God changed me, I was like, I'm gonna use everything I have, everything. If it's just for one person to be able to know the love of God, I'm gonna do that. So my natural personality is funny. My natural personality is loud. Like, that's who I am.

[Keke Palmer]

I was just going to say that I'm. Obviously, I'm not a pastor, but I am a storyteller, and I have deep messages that I like to get across as an artist. And I am also Pastor Kiki.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Sounds kind of good, though. Pastor Palmer does sound kind of good, I hear.

[Keke Palmer]

I'll tell you, my dad is a deacon, so we do have Deacon Palmer. We do have Deacon Palmer, to your point. Like, I am flamboyant, big dramatic. I Use humor. Sometimes I use tears to also tell my stories and my messages. And I remember when you did the Easter Sunday thing and people had a lot of responses, and I was like, damn, that is kind of crazy and dramatic. But at the same time, I. I don't know if I was. How I would. If I was a pastor in this day and age, how I would have to think about bringing light and attention to the word in a way that doesn't feel like it is separate from me. So I don't. I. You know, it's easy to, I think, criticize something that you don't have to try to do. So when you are trying to do it and you are trying to reach out, I think you are figuring it out the best way that you know how. What did you think that you learned from that situation and how that affected maybe the way you wanted to do it differently, or how do you speak to people that feel like that was too much?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yeah, I definitely value people's observations. I don't necessarily try to fix their opinions because I have to be me. The only life that I get is the one that God gave me. If I was. I tell people all the time, if I was an Amazon truck driver, I would be loud. I would have a speaker on my clip. I would be talking to the people. This is me. And I believe that's the beautiful thing about God. He gave me my personality. He didn't tell me to be a pastor in spite of it. And so from that easter production, over 3,000 people got saved, gave their life to Christ. Well, nobody's talking about the transformation that's happened to the people that put down drugs, all that other stuff. They're saying, oh, my goodness, there was fire and demons, and they was doing this stuff. And we were. Were making a dramatic play just like anybody would do on any type of platform. That was for the arts. And it was just good. And so I learned a lot of things, Kiki. One thing I learned is that the church and people who criticize the church think that it should fit inside of a box for a day. They don't think that it should be excellent or it should come outside of the moment because they want to live in Monday through Saturday over here. And then I go to church for two hours, and then that's my, like, God box. And I learned, like, oh, wow. And it's not just people who don't know God. I'm talking about, like, people who, like, are. Are. Are in it.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, I mean, I think that people don't Feel like our everyday living can be intertwined. Like it immediately goes secular or righteous, and it's not a place for those lessons to sit in between. And I think it maybe. It maybe could do us some good if we actually start stopped. You know, I don't know if the word would be self loathing, but thinking that who we are as we are is not acceptable in a place of God.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

See, I'm. I. You got a spot at Transformation Church, Pastor Palmer. I'mma just tell you right now, you can come and do fifth Sundays. You hear me?

[Keke Palmer]

You are hilarious.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

The truth of the matter is, if Jesus was on the earth today, what would probably be his profession? He would be a. A movie producer. He told stories. He literally sat down and told parables to huge groups of people. And that word, parable is parabole. That means a story that actually gives a truth. He would have been doing that. But for me to do that, it was just me trying to reach people who ain't never coming to church.

[Keke Palmer]

I got excited when you said it because I think that that's why I am a storyteller. Growing up in a church and hearing those stories and those messages, that is why I love telling stories. So it's. It is. You know, I remember thinking of that and growing up and hearing this story and a prodigal son and. Oh, my gosh. And I love these stories because they made me feel like I was seen, you know?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Which. Which is interesting because that's what you said you're talking about.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

That's me too. And so just grateful for it.

[Keke Palmer]

Wow. Okay.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

I like talking to you, Keke. Pastor Palmer, that. This is all right with me.

[Keke Palmer]

I like talking to you too. I like talking to you too. Almost.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

It almost kind of looks like we cousins. We need to run a DNA check or it feel like we. We missed each other at the family reunions. That's what.

[Keke Palmer]

Where your people from? You know how they say where your people from?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Louisiana and Alabama.

[Keke Palmer]

They're okay.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

I ain't got no people. My folks Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, you know.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

That'S all still Midwest, country, South kind of situation. You never know what's happening. You never know.

[Keke Palmer]

Honestly, I could talk to you all day. I'm so mad. I wanted to get into so much more stuff about relationships and a cup of love and all that. But that means we got to have a part two.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

We got to do it again.

[Keke Palmer]

We'll give you a part two. It has been awesome to talk to you. And before I let you go, I got to do what I always do. I play a game, and if you down for it, we can get into it.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

I'm down.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. This one is called what Would Pastor Mike Do? Okay. So I'm going to give you different relationship scenarios, and you tell me what the right thing to do is. Sound good?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

This could be dangerous. This could be dangerous. I'm down. Okay. This could be dangerous. Let's.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. You suspect your partner is cheating on you. You see they've left their phone out. Do you pick up the phone and read through their messages or. Nah.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Yes. No, that's not. I don't. Listen. Excuse me. Listen. Hey, listen. If we supposed to be doing this thing. I believe in transparency and honesty. Ain't no secrets, ain't no WhatsApp. Why you in WhatsApp? Ain't nobody out the country. Like, we need to be honest.

[Keke Palmer]

What do we say to the people that's gonna say, well, well, Pastor, you was just talking about boundaries. What if that's my boundary not to let nobody in my phone? How does that play into, you know, having nobody?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

I got what you're saying.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, so how do we tie that in?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

So the truth of the matter is, speaking as somebody that comes from secrets, like, that's the life that I used to live, there was nothing on the good on the other side of my secrets. There was something I was always trying to hide, something I was still trying to give life, something that was a backup plan to a backup plan. And so for me, when I see secrets or people getting. Matter of fact, I'm in my office right now, and I have a stack of privacy screens from men's cell phones that were hiding things, and they came to a men's gathering, and I said, if there's any men in here that's been hiding things from your wife, from your kids, from everything, I said, if you have a privacy screen on your phone so the person right next to you, which is probably somebody you love, can't see what you looking at at, I said, you're out of line. I said, you're supposed to be a man of integrity, a man that can be trusted when it's in front of people and when it's behind closed doors. And I said, if you're in here and you a real man or you want to be a real man of integrity, I said, come bring me your privacy screens. I have a stack full of screens because people were holding secrets.

[Keke Palmer]

Interesting.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

And I've gotten testimony after testimony of people. Now, I understand if you in the government or the CIA or all that other stuff, but that don't work.

[Keke Palmer]

To your mama about you got a boil on your booty. I mean, it could be okay.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

That. That could work too. But the truth of the matter is, what's the harm in the person you love seeing that text?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, yeah, there's no problem. They don't seen the boil anyway.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

They done seen your booty and the boil. You hear what I'm saying? So what I'm saying to you is like, I just, for me, I stay away from all secrets because that feeds my lower nature. And if I give it room to breathe, breed, and grow, at some point it will devour me and kill something that I love.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, here we go again.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

I didn't. I'm sorry. I went too deep on that. I know we supposed to be playing the game, but.

[Keke Palmer]

No, no, no. There is no too deep. That's. That's what we want. That's what the people need. Okay? You're dating someone and everything is perfect. Okay.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

You share a strong spiritual connection. You're making plans to get married and buy your dream house together. Then your partner unexpectedly suffers an enormous financial loss. Loss. And you can no longer afford your dream house with that person. You lose your sense of the future you envisioned with them. Do you abandon the dream or abandon the person?

[Pastor Michael Todd]

No, you. You. You abandon the dream. I don't think you abandoned the person. People are living their dream lives without anybody to share it with. And it's one of those really sad situations that you can have the house, the car, the prestige, and then go home in a 5,000 square foot house that's paid for with a Lambo, a G wagon, and still feel completely alone. Like God says in his word that two are better than one. Finding your person, finding the right people, finding community, that's important in this life. Especially when there's a lot of counterfeits out here. And so if you found the right person and it's just money and things that actually are missing temporarily because the truth of the matter, if that person had the ability to get to that status once, they can get to it again. I think that the truth of the matter is having the right people is more important than having paper.

[Keke Palmer]

Our generation speaks a lot about gender roles. 50 50. And I've heard you not say a bunch of gender role stuff, but you do say, as a man or as a woman, what do you think about that in terms of the whole financial load? I'm just curious of how you see that, because it's a lot of he got to take me to Boston the first date or he gotta pay for everything, you know, I mean, and I, and I'll be honest with you, in my opinion, I don't know any man or woman that can really do all that like that, especially in our age group. So I'm curious of how we thinking about what a man's role is, you know, in this economic place.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

The downturn, huh? Like, no, I got you. So I'm old fashioned. I was raised by a man that is like the quintessential gentleman. My father, him and my mom have been married 45 years. He still surprises her with gifts and does everything that he can. But my mother for most of my life was the breadwinner of our house. My dad, now watch this. My dad was the leader of our home, but my mom brought home the bacon. And I think it's a thing of respect and honor. I think no matter who is bringing home the most money, the truth of the matter is people use that as ammunition to defend themselves against their own insecurities. So, yeah, I know. Cause there was a season in my life where I was on the come up where my wife worked a good job and she made more money than me and I was building something and she knew I wasn't lazy and she knew that I was working. And we would go out to eat and I couldn't pay for it, but under the table she would hand me the card and she would honor me by letting me pay for the meal on her debit card. That woman has no need for anything because when God turned the tables and she allowed me to still lead the home and not emasculate me, and it has turned into the greatest blessing of her life. And so that's the thing. No matter who it is and where it is, I do think there is a little sensationalism around. Like, my man gotta come and do this and do this and do this. And it's like, baby, like, that's not even real. Like, unless you are marrying an NBA player who's gonna cheat on you probably a lot. Like, you don't need to pass the mic now. I didn't. I'm just saying, like, the truth is the truth. Like you want a Birkin bag, but you don't want exclusivity. Like he's gonna share it around. So the truth of the matter is I think we need to be looking for character more than we're looking to play a character like, like. And that's where for me, I think it's the person like, you gotta make sure that you're aiming and being the person. And I think some people just missed it. So many people are really obsessed on who they're going to be with instead of who they are being because you only can attract the level of character that you are.

[Keke Palmer]

I couldn't agree more. I could talk to you all day. We might have to do this again, Pastor Mike. We go.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

Let's do it next week. You hear me? Let's do it. Pastor Palmer, my cousin. We got to have faith Fridays or something. Come on. We gonna have to do that.

[Keke Palmer]

You are the bomb. Thank you for coming to the show. God bless you and your family. Love you too, baby. Take care.

[Pastor Michael Todd]

God bless.

[Keke Palmer]

God bless. I enjoyed hearing Pastor Mike Todd's perspective. I think he's really helping us to see a spiritual dimension to relationships that we can often overlook these days. My biggest takeaway is that no matter what your faith is, there's something very universal about the purpose that you have in relationships. And if you don't find yourself elevating each other, maybe it's not worth it. So get out there and find someone to lift you up and I'll see you next week because you know, it's your girl. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah, enjoy. Baby this is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby, this is Keke Palmer early and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Baby this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Seagal is our post producer. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for Team Kiki. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candace Manriquez Wren. Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Le.