Lizzo’s Side of the Story - An Exclusive Interview

Summary

Podcast Summary: Baby, This is Keke Palmer – Episode: Lizzo’s Side of the Story

Introduction

In this exclusive episode of Baby, This is Keke Palmer, hosted by Keke Palmer herself, listeners are treated to an in-depth conversation with Grammy-winning artist Lizzo. The episode delves into the recent controversies surrounding Lizzo, offering her personal insights and responses to allegations that made headlines last year.

Background on Lizzo

Keke Palmer opens the episode by highlighting Lizzo’s impressive achievements in the music industry, including her hit singles like "Juice" and "Truth Hurts," along with multiple Grammy Awards, Billboard Music Awards, BET Awards, and Soul Train Music Awards. Palmer sets the stage for a candid discussion about Lizzo’s journey and the challenges she has faced.

The Controversy and Lawsuit

The core of the episode centers around a lawsuit filed in August 2023 by three former backup dancers against Lizzo, her production company, and her dance captain, Shirlene Quigley. The allegations include sexual harassment, racial harassment, disability discrimination, assault, false imprisonment, and weight shaming, painting a picture of a hostile work environment.

Lizzo’s Response and Defense

Lizzo addresses the lawsuit with clarity and emotion. At [04:38], she states, “I was completely surprised,” emphasizing that she had no prior knowledge of the claims. She expresses deep hurt, especially since the dancers were individuals she respected and gave opportunities to.

When pressed on the specifics, Lizzo explains an incident at the Crazy Horse in Paris, a topless dance review venue, where she invited her dancers to watch the show. She clarifies, “It was a consensual environment,” and refutes the sexual harassment claims by describing the friendly and respectful interactions, including meeting the performers afterward ([08:14]-[09:20]).

Discussion on Boundaries and Workplace Dynamics

Keke Palmer probes into the dynamics between Lizzo as a boss and her team, questioning whether casual relationships may have led to misunderstandings or misperceptions. At [10:00], Lizzo acknowledges the challenges, stating, “I definitely... learned how to set those kinds of boundaries.” She reflects on the blurred lines between friendship and professional relationships in the entertainment industry, leading to her current stance on maintaining clear boundaries to protect both herself and her team.

Impact on Personal and Professional Life

The lawsuit had a significant impact on Lizzo’s personal and professional life. She lost 150,000 followers overnight, a blow she discusses candidly at [25:14]: “I was like, oh, wow. This is the part of fame that you unknowingly sign up for.” Lizzo explains her temporary withdrawal from social media as a necessary step for her mental well-being, highlighting the toxic relationship she developed with the internet during the backlash ([26:18]-[27:33]).

Coping Mechanisms and Mental Health

Throughout the conversation, Lizzo emphasizes the importance of mental health and coping mechanisms. She credits therapy for helping her navigate the emotional turmoil caused by the allegations. At [48:40], she shares, “My therapist helped me find the words to... be able to be more expressive,” underscoring the role of professional support in her healing process.

Upcoming Projects and Future Plans

Despite the challenges, Lizzo remains focused on her creative endeavors. She discusses her upcoming album, describing it as a blend of her personal experiences with themes of anger, sadness, and ultimate positivity. At [45:05], Lizzo notes, “I have a lot of angry songs, a lot of dark songs... but I remember my purpose is to remain true to myself,” signaling a deep emotional journey within her music.

Fun Segment: Holiday Games

Adding a lighthearted touch, Keke Palmer engages Lizzo in a festive game where Lizzo attempts to guess popular Christmas songs played as flute covers. The segment, filled with laughter and playful banter, highlights the rapport between the hosts and provides a glimpse into Lizzo’s fun-loving personality.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Lizzo and Keke Palmer reflecting on resilience and personal growth. Lizzo shares her gratitude for the support of her loyal fans and emphasizes the importance of staying true to oneself despite public scrutiny. Palmer concludes by encouraging listeners to subscribe and enjoy future episodes, leaving the audience with a sense of empowerment and inspiration.

Notable Quotes

• Lizzo at [04:38]: “I was completely surprised.”

• Lizzo at [10:00]: “I definitely... learned how to set those kinds of boundaries.”

• Lizzo at [25:14]: “I was like, oh, wow. This is the part of fame that you unknowingly sign up for.”

• Lizzo at [45:05]: “I have a lot of angry songs, a lot of dark songs... but I remember my purpose is to remain true to myself.”

• Lizzo at [48:40]: “My therapist helped me find the words to... be able to be more expressive.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Baby, This is Keke Palmer offers a comprehensive and honest look into Lizzo’s experiences with fame, controversy, and personal growth. Through thoughtful dialogue and candid revelations, both Keke Palmer and Lizzo provide listeners with valuable insights into handling public scrutiny, maintaining authenticity, and the importance of mental health.

Transcript

[Keke Palmer]

This episode is sponsored by the good old folks over at Airbnb. This holiday season, be sure to check out the most loved homes on Airbnb by taking a look at guest favorites. Take it from me, some trips are better in an Airbnb. Now let's start the show. No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all, especially the bad. Cause money always evolved Matter what it is, we gonna make it make sense. Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings. So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only you know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby. This is Kiki Palma. Yeah, what's up, listeners? Today on the show, we have our very first exclusive interview that you won't hear anywhere else. Our guest today was the center of a big controversial story last year. And today she's here to talk about her side of the story. Now, she is one of the powerful and original voices in pop music. You might know her from her hit singles, Juice My Fave or Truth Hurts. She's truly a self made star who's won our hearts, won four Grammys, Billboard Music Award and a BET Award. I mean, the list goes on. As well as two Soul Train Music Awards.

[Lizzo]

Woo.

[Keke Palmer]

Welcome to the show, Ms. Lizzo and an Emmy. Wait a minute now.

[Lizzo]

Wait a minute.

[Keke Palmer]

What you think? Are you coming for the EGOT?

[Lizzo]

I'm not coming for the EGOT.

[Keke Palmer]

I think the EGOT's coming for you.

[Lizzo]

It's coming for me. I have two of the letters.

[Keke Palmer]

Wait a minute. Speaking of EGOT, would you ever. Cause it's just not. Would you ever do theater? Because at Tony, I feel like you would eat up fast.

[Lizzo]

Absolutely. I was in the. Well, this is. I got kicked out of theater in high school because I chose band. I chose marching band over theater. But I was in a play for like five days.

[Keke Palmer]

You remember what play was?

[Lizzo]

I don't. Hotel something.

[Keke Palmer]

But I could see you eating down on this. When you do Broadway, make sure you give me an extra seat. Comp me some seats.

[Lizzo]

I want to do more like opera. Like a hip hoppera.

[Keke Palmer]

You have such a vast collection of musical abilities, from flute to obviously vocals. Now I'm hearing about opera. The list goes, well, I can't do.

[Lizzo]

Opera, but I like opera. I like. I like Rosine. I'm not Ariana Grande, okay? She is girl.

[Keke Palmer]

Why is the wicked thing going through my mind?

[Lizzo]

Hey, that's my line. Girl, I said worship.

[Keke Palmer]

It was a war cry. Okay. It was a.

[Lizzo]

It was a battle cry. You know, that was in the script, too. It was like battle cry. Like when you play. When you play. Well, that's what it's called. When you play Elphaba. What? Yes, the battle cry. You felt it, but you felt it in your shonda.

[Keke Palmer]

I felt it in my shonda. Whatever that is. Ms. Rhymes. Anyway. Shonda Rhimes, have you been. You look good. I was with your girl sizzle earlier.

[Lizzo]

Yes. Solana.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Lizzo]

You guys go see the movie. Go see one of them days. Just one of them days. Um, yeah. Would you ask me how.

[Keke Palmer]

Just how you been?

[Lizzo]

I feel good. Um, you know, this is my first interview in a long time, so I. Yeah. Now I'm very.

[Keke Palmer]

From what you know, I feel very honored. A, that you, you know, that you came on the show.

[Lizzo]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And B, that you want to talk about what's been going on, because it's been a lot. Miss Girl, I know you've probably been like, what do I want to say? And when do I want to say something? So I guess the first thing I could ask is, why did you want to say something finally now, did anything change?

[Lizzo]

And specifically to you? Because I know that you're not going to hold back. I know that you're going to keep it very real. Don't take it easy on me. I only want to do this interview once, and I feel like this was the best place to do it. So. Yeah, the last year and a half, I needed time to process and grow as a person because, you know, 2023 was an amazing year for me. It was a career high. Like, we got the record of the year at the Grammys for about damn time. I was on my first arena tour, and I got to bring the wonderful big girl dancers from Watch out for the big girls on stage with me every night. Like, I was literally living in my dream. And then the tour ended and three ex dancers just completely, like, blindsided me with a lawsuit.

[Keke Palmer]

So let's talk about that so I can get the exact facts right before we get into it is 2023, they come with a lawsuit and it's a bunch of different claims about harassment, assault. Were you surprised? Did you know about it beforehand? That it was coming before we saw it hit the net, or was it a complete blindside situation?

[Lizzo]

I was completely surprised.

[Keke Palmer]

Really.

[Lizzo]

I was very, deeply hurt because, you know, these were 3x dancers. So they weren't on the tour. They didn't, like, finish the tour out with us. But even regardless of that, these were people that I gave opportunities to. These were people that I. I liked them and appreciated them as dancers. Respected them as dancers. So I was like, what? But then I heard all the other things, like sexual harassment, and I was like, they're trying. Well, I don't know what they're trying to do, but these are the types of things that the media can turn into something that it's not. You know what I mean?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. You posted in a tweet. This may be a random time to say this, but it's on my heart. Cancel culture is appropriation. There was a real outrage from truly marginalized people. And now it's become trendy, misused and miscredited. I hope we can phase out of this and focus on the real outraged problems. Then this was around the same time. Was that a random post or was this just before it hit the.

[Lizzo]

That was so random. I don't know. I don't know how things synchronized.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

But there are a lot of strange synchronicities. I was just, you know me, like everyone knows that I always am very transparent on the Internet. I've used social media to connect with people. I don't hold back. I'm always very, very me. So that was just me ranting or just saying my thoughts on the Internet. All of this came literally out of nowhere. And you can ask me anything about it because I got dismissed from the case.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. That's a big weight off your shoulders, I'm sure.

[Lizzo]

Yes. And we're continuing to fight the other claims until they're all dismissed and not dropped. Dismissed. Which means a judge saw this and in the court of law, he looked at the evidence and said, okay, we can't allow this to go through because the evidence was evidencing against the claims.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

So it is a big victory.

[Keke Palmer]

But so let's get into the details. Obviously, August 2023, three former backup dancers filed a lawsuit against you, your production company and your dance captain, Shirlene Quigley. They all accuse you of sexual relig, racial harassment, disability, discrimination, assault, false imprisonment. I mean, this is a list creating a hostile work environment and weight shaming. So obviously, you know, it was dismissed. They went through it. The judges must didn't think it was real and valid, but there it has to be some connective tissue. So what happened actually that made them pull this from this? I know you dismissed them as dancers, but it was no bad blood. Where do you think they're pulling that from?

[Lizzo]

So when you think about what the media put as a headline. When you see sexual harassment, when you see assault, all of those things, it is like, whoa, that. It's very shocking. But then when you read the claims in the actual lawsuit, it's ridiculous. They're very silly claims. I could go through every single one. The sexual harassment one is really the one that upsets me the most to.

[Keke Palmer]

Hear because about something with a strip club. Is that where that came from?

[Lizzo]

Yeah, we went. So there's a place called Crazy Horse in Paris, France. There's. You heard of it?

[Keke Palmer]

I haven't heard of it, but I be going to strip club.

[Lizzo]

But this isn't a. So this isn't a strip club. Crazy Horse is like, it's a dance review, but it's in Europe. So it's a topless dance review. But think about it. It's like the Rockettes or something. And it's burlesque.

[Keke Palmer]

Sure.

[Lizzo]

And so I've gone for years, and I always invite the performers to like, hey, oh my gosh, you should come through and watch this show, like, and get inspired. And every time I've gone, I've had my performers come and they watch the show, and everything's always been fine. This time I gave, like, an invitation. It wasn't mandatory. It was just, hey, I'm going to Crazy Horse. Everyone's invited. If you want to come, you can come. There were plenty of people who didn't come, but then there were people who did. We watched a show. It was an amazing show. And the Crazy Horse performers, they wanted to meet me afterwards because, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm me and come on the old moon rising.

[Lizzo]

I. I extended that. I was like, who wants to meet the Crazy Horse dancers? And they were all like, me. You know, they all raised their hand. So we all went downstairs, we met the dancers, we laughed, we talked. There's photos and video of the three girls who are the ex dancers who are suing me in a video with them smiling, having a great time, and we all went back to our hotels. And that is one of the claims of sexual harassment.

[Keke Palmer]

Do you feel like. And I'm asking you this because I also often have to think about this. When you are the boss, so to speak, and you're the same age as the people that you're working with. You see them as peers. Even though you're signing the checks, you see these people as people you hang out with, you kick it with. These are your friends. Do you feel that sometimes you were not able to see the way that they perceived you based on you being their boss, Meaning maybe did they feel like they had to go or this is my boss, so I gotta be chill. I don't see her as my friend or my homegirl. I feel like I gotta do this or I feel like I gotta be down with it because I want to keep my job. Do you think that could have ever played a part into them now feeling like what they're feeling or saying now what they've been saying?

[Lizzo]

Well, I can't speak for how they felt because I don't know. But I definitely. The first half of your question, was I able to see that? Yes, because the way that I came up and people who have been following me for a long time know that when I even started as an indie artist, I was hiring my friends.

[Keke Palmer]

Right.

[Lizzo]

And that's how it is in this industry. You hire your friends, and if they're not your friends, when you hire them, they become your friends. And like that boss employee dynamic in the music industry isn't as, like, intense as it is in the corporate world. I literally toured with people that I considered my best friends and sisters for years. And I hear about artists who don't even talk to their dancers, who don't mingle with them at all. And I used to be like, why? It's like that. Like, it don't got to be like that. We can all be family and hang out and have a good time. But now I see why. And I think this experience taught me how to set those kinds of boundaries. Not just to protect them, but to protect myself.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Because to your point, I know personally and you know, they have some stuff in acting, but in our entertainment industry in general, everything is so casual. There is no HR person coming in and always checking on you. Every now and then we have a sad union person coming in, but we don't be telling them the truth all the time. Sorry, I gotta keep good jobs. But my tr. My point is to make with that is that, you know, it is something to be said about that when you are an independent contractor or a boss or an entrepreneur, that you have to implement these things, you know, And I love the accountability you're taking on saying, well, maybe I, you know, could do better next time to make sure that I'm safe and they're safe and just that those lines aren't blurred. Because I think that's. It's tough. Cause you do want to be. I want to be friends with everybody, but how they're perceiving me and how that then can be taken out of context or well.

[Lizzo]

And let's be clear, I did nothing wrong, so I have no regrets. But I do have now this learned experience that is preparing me for the boss that I am becoming. This experience hasn't stopped me from being me. And I think it could have easily done that. It could have easily been like, well, you guys want the villain? I'm like, no, go on, Nikki. But it's like I wasn't even playing the role of the hero, so why would I start playing the role of a villain? I am just me. And I'm gonna continue to be me.

[Keke Palmer]

Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah. Look, we all know the holidays can be stressful, but do they have to be? We all know that some trips are better in an Airbnb, and that includes holiday travel. Picture this. Instead of cramming into Grandma's guest room or fighting over the pullout couch, you could be chilling in a cozy cabin with a fireplace or living it up in a spacious house with room for everyone all within driving distance. So for those moments when you're tired of being reminded of all the pressures of the holidays, check out nearby guest favorites on Airbnb. Find a cute little cottage on the outskirts of town, cook up a family feast in a fully equipped kitchen, play board games in the living room, or have a movie marathon with the babies. And the best part? You get to make memories in a place that feels like home, but with all the excitement of being somewhere new. Remember my Joshua Tree moment I was telling y'all about a couple months ago? I'm trying to tell y'all Airbnb's got you covered for those local getaways that feel like a world away. It truly felt like I was on another planet, but it was only a couple hours away. So this holiday season, why not switch it up with Airbnb? You deserve a relaxing holiday season. Tis the season for year end wrap ups and baby Audible is coming in hot with this year's best in audio entertainment. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here bringing you the year's top audiobooks, podcasts and originals across all your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci fi to mysteries and thrillers, romance and well being to fiction. Audible's carefully curated list is the perfect way to experience 2024's finest audio offering. You can dive into a star studded production of George Orwell's 1984 putting a whole new spin on this grade school classic with cutting edge sound effects and bold dramatic choices. For those who like to indulge in romance, there's Emily Henry's funny Story. Or for those looking to tap into the strength of the American spirit, you can listen to Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's memoir, Lovely One. And for my fiction fans, y'all can immerse yourself in a captivating fiction such as the Woman by Kristin Hannah or Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive James. This holiday season gives yourself the gift of imagination. With Audible, there's more to imagine when you listen. Discover all the year's best waiting for [e-mail] best of the year. I love that you said that. It's not gonna change you because one of the things that we all loved about you was your body positivity. I mean, you really changed the game with that. You know what I'm saying? In terms of the way that. And it shouldn't be so like the game will change from you loving yourself, but it's crazy because sometimes the world tells us for a bunch of different reasons why we shouldn't.

[Lizzo]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And so speaking of that, it was definitely very shocking, I'm sure, for you, just like it was for any of us that are fans of you. When they were saying that you weight shamed them. What was this about? I mean, one specifically said, you know, you told her she seemed less committed to her role after she gained weight. I mean, did you say that? Was that a joke? Was it like, why? What was up with that? So not with you, but with her.

[Lizzo]

Those words never came out of my mouth. I've, I've, I never said that some of these claims, there are so many, like, inconsistencies and things that just never happened. On the contrary, that particular person, I hired them after their weight gain. You know what I mean? It was the opposite. You didn't get fired after that, you got hired. And the world has seen me champion for bigger bodies, champion for smaller bodies, too. Like, you know, I'm not just like, I don't skinny shame people. You know what I mean? Like, I've taken the mission and I've included everybody in it, from television shows to my music, to my personal life, to fans, Everyone has seen me do this. And champion people and platform people. And I think it was funny for the Internet, but the irony is right there, right in front of you.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. And the assumption, I guess, or what they're putting out there is that it's performative, which I could imagine is hurtful to you, especially when you dedicated so much of your career to genuinely, truly supporting who you are and other people like you.

[Lizzo]

How Far have we gotten into all of this where I can perform being a champion for fat people. When I'm fat, I am fat. I'm speaking up for things that I need. I'm getting people jobs who look like me. That wasn't performing. That was real. I never stopped doing that. You know what I mean? I never was like, all right, I'm just gonna hire you for this one thing. Cause it makes me look good.

[Keke Palmer]

But I do think we are in a world now where everybody is questioning everything from every point. Whether it's entertainers, politics, et cetera. The list goes on. Nobody trusts and nobody believes anything. It becomes a question of your character. Constantly you're trying to prove that you are who you say you are to the point where you're like, damn, am I not? You know, it becomes. So you become gaslit by yourself. Because how do I show you more authenticity than just being myself?

[Lizzo]

I think that's why it hurts so much. Because all of these claims are literally the opposite. Like the racial discrimination as a black woman being racist to black women, when I've done nothing but champion black people.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, one of the tried to say to this point, hurt people, hurt people. That there's this idea that based off of you having the experience as a marginalized black woman or as somebody that is plus size, that you've, you know, in some ways have projected that onto others.

[Lizzo]

And I think we gotta remember that these claims are not just against me, but it was against your whole production team. Production team, captain, the other people. And it really. They're all black. We're all black women. Because I believe in giving black women jobs in this industry.

[Keke Palmer]

So what do you think is. What's going on here? When you let them go, was it. Was it a drama scene? Was it like, I need my job. I need my. You know, and it was like, no, you know. Or was it like, we let them go. We never heard from them. Like, what was the tea on why they would go this way far for no reason at all.

[Lizzo]

I'll use their own words. Hurt people. Hurt people.

[Keke Palmer]

Interesting.

[Lizzo]

I. I think. I don't. I actually don't know why they would do something like that. And it wasn't just against me. It was against everyone on this tour. And I hate that there is this idea that this was everyone. Because we had such an amazing tour and these are amazing people. These dancers are incredible dancers. They're hard workers. They're amazing people. My band is incredible. My crew is incredible. We had an incredible time. And I couldn't Tell you why they would do something like this, not just to me, but to everyone.

[Keke Palmer]

Do you think you're tough? I ask because I feel like I'm tough. You know, we both talk about you a Virgo moon, I'm a Virgo sun, and I'm meticulous. I want things a particular way. I expect everybody to be on point. I, you know, want to be able to say, hey, we need to do this, and let's be objective about it. Do you feel that there is a sense of high expectations on your team that, you know, also could have been misconstrued?

[Lizzo]

I'll say this about me. I'm an extremely hard worker. And I. And I am. I'm not a perfectionist, because I don't. I think perfectionism is kind of like the enemy of art sometimes. And being an artist, like, not gonna get it perfect, but I want it to be good, not just for my standards, but for the 20,000 people who are gonna be in this venue tonight. They deserve to see a good show. So, yeah, are we gonna work hard? Yeah. But what artists do you know out here who y'all respect don't work hard? There's a claim that somebody couldn't use the bathroom, but during rehearsal. But in that same rehearsal, there was another dancer who was in the bathroom during a whole run.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's why I asked. What I asked you about your team, because there's also this thing where they're coming at the captain, they're coming at the production. And sometimes you. If you're off and you're doing this and that, maybe you don't know back what they doing at home base, had you. Did you take a look with yourself and say, when all this went down, what's my production company doing? What's my caption doing? Was there a moment in time that you feel you could have maybe checked the people that were working with you handling the dancers? Well, maybe they, you know, effed up on something. Was that ever a thought, you know, that past your mind?

[Lizzo]

If somebody had came to me with an issue with somebody on my team, if that existed, then it would be handled and dealt with. That's it. But everybody. Everybody had a great time, but then they didn't.

[Keke Palmer]

You know what I mean, though? And that is crazy when it happens. Cause you're wondering. I thought we had a great time, and then we didn't. And there's no solve for that. You can't know what you don't know. But, I mean, again, I'm thinking in terms of just Your business. Are you still working with the same production company? Do you have the same dance captain?

[Lizzo]

I've been.

[Keke Palmer]

Have anybody been recycled? Had to let other people.

[Lizzo]

Here's the wild part. This happened on the last day of the special tour we got. The lawsuit hit the media the day after. The stage was still cooling. Okay. And I had already planned after the tour ended to go in and work on my next album. That means that none of these people were employed. After that last day in Japan, there were no more shows. So the people that I hire for my production, they go on to other jobs.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

The dancers go on to other jobs, the band go on to other jobs. And let me just state, all of those people, even though they were not getting paid from me, all came out and have sworn under oath and done testimonies backing me up and being like, hey, none of these things happen. We had a great time on this tour, all of those people. But the news don't talk about that because the media, they don't like to talk about good things. They only like to talk about the negative things.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I mean, it's true. We do have a negative bias. Naturally. Even as human beings, you always want to get in on what went wrong. Of your former employees described an incident where allegedly you balled up your fist and cracked your knuckles talking about some. Oh, you so lucky. And I only bring that up. I don't mean to laugh at that claim at that angle, so please don't make me laugh at that claim. But I wanted to ask you about that because it made me wonder if you could think that, I don't know. You said all your dancers are black. I feel like people be like, oh, you. So that could be a cultural thing. Do you think that things like that were misconstrued or situations where. Even when you were talking about the body shaming, you know, my mom has been plus size all my life, and she'll talk real quick about, honey, I ain't miss no meals. And I always wonder. It's the same thing as. As a black person when you say, nigga, somebody else being offended, and you're the one that's black. Do you feel like your comfortability with your weight, your comfortability with, you know, just your personality? Oh, you know, girl, don't play with me. Do you feel that that becomes now a danger to the environment or that it is misconstrued as that when you're just kind of being comfortable in yourself and sharing your vibe?

[Lizzo]

I think it's a great thing to add to a Salacious headline to make me seem like a person who would commit assault.

[Keke Palmer]

The imagery was crazy.

[Lizzo]

Well, that's. But. But if you think about it like that was. That is. The assault allegation is that I cracked my knuckles and said, ooh, girl, you're so lucky. Like, I don't mean to lift, you know, more things that just never happened.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, you listen like, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

[Lizzo]

I crack my knuckles. By the way, I'm a flute player. I crack my knuckles a lot. I actually do. But I don't go, that's like such a movie, like such a story. Like, you know, that's such a fairy tale. But, like, yeah, I crack my knuckles. Like, I crack my knuckles every morning doing yoga. Like, I like doing it. But to do that, to be. To threat. Let me tell you one thing. I've never been like, I'm sorry.

[Keke Palmer]

That is too.

[Lizzo]

You're going to get it. I. I just don't do that.

[Keke Palmer]

Let's watch a Disney Channel movie.

[Lizzo]

Right?

[Keke Palmer]

That's what they gave.

[Lizzo]

Right. But it's like, you know, assault. That word. That word is so serious. But like I said, the claim is, is I cracked my knuckles.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

So now people think I'm beating people up because that's such an aggressive word. But really, I cracked my knuckles. And you can use that to claim that I was going to assault you.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I mean, when all this went down, you lost 150,000 followers in one day. How did that impact you? That people would believe something without even, you know, another day to even hear if something else came out? Like, it was just like, immediately we heard this and we did this.

[Lizzo]

I was like, oh, wow. This is the part of fame that you unknowingly sign up for. People now will just believe anything bad about you because there's something about being a famous person that it's almost like people want to believe that you're a bad person, and they can't believe that you're actually boring and chill and nice, you know?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

But if you unfollowed me that quickly, were you even a fan? And that's why I'm doing this interview. I'm not doing this interview for the 150,000 people who unfollow me. I'm doing this interview for my fans who care about me, who stuck beside me and the people that I've been wanting to speak to for so long, and now I can finally speak to them.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I mean, you left social media for a little bit.

[Lizzo]

I left it for a Long bit. Yeah. I was off of social media from August 2023 to January 2024. Anything that you saw was either someone on my team posted for me or I posted real quick and through my phone because I had obligations. But other than that, baby, anything that was going on, I. I stayed out of it. I stayed out of the discourse. I didn't even really see the jokes or the memes or the discourse about me because I'm so. I don't want to. I'm not a victim, so I'm not going to use the word traumatized, but I can't find another word for just like when I see things about me now, or if. Even if I see a word that looked like my name, I get physically unwell and I can't take it. So I have a very toxic relationship with the Internet now. So I, I pulled out and it was very healthy for me. I suggest everyone do it. I don't suggest under the circumstances, but everyone should pull out for a minute because.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm sorry, I just. I gotta break it up at times. It truly gotta break it up sometimes.

[Lizzo]

Little jokes, baby, you gotta pull away for a second because I was going to lose myself.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

And I think when you see all these bad things about you see all.

[Keke Palmer]

The bad things about yourself, I've gone through it. I don't know anybody that's been in the public eye, you know, for at least 5, 10 years that have not experienced being talked about, being people this, you're this, you're that. And.

[Lizzo]

But people have caught me, you know, fat people have, you know, said they don't like my music. Whatever, whatever, whatever. That's is fine because that's, that's how your truth. The hardest part about all of this is that none of these things were true.

[Keke Palmer]

Right.

[Lizzo]

And mind you, people know me to take accountability for everything that happens to me online when I get backlash, I take accountability on. In. In front of the public. And in my personal life, I'm big on accountability. When there was a lyric in my song in. In Girls that was offensive to one person, by the way, I saw one tweet and they were like, hey, this word is harmful in this. In the disabled community. I saw that one tweet and say, you know what? I call my producer up. I saw it on Friday, I was in the studio Saturday, it was changed by Sunday, it was over by Monday, and there was still discourse and backlash all week. I didn't do it because of the backlash. I did it because it was the right thing to do.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

In this situation, y'all know that I would take accountability, but I didn't. I didn't do anything wrong. So I'm fighting. Yeah, I mean, I've been fighting behind the scenes, too. My lawyer's been doing the talking. Right. Because I also don't want to perpetuate the negative talk that's surrounding real victims in the world. I still believe women. I still believe victims because this happened to me. It's not going to change that. But people should not be able to just say anything about somebody and put it in the media and ask for money. You shouldn't be able to do those things. So I'm fighting, baby.

[Keke Palmer]

This is Icky Palma. Yeah. As I was saying earlier, Audible's best of the year picks are in. And honey, I am set. Every year, Audible puts together a list of the best of the best when it comes to audio entertainment. I'm talking top audiobooks, podcasts and originals in all your favorite genres. The works. Okay. Now my ears are immediately perked up when I saw that they listed Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's memoir, Lovely One, as one of the year's must listen titles. I checked it out and it basically felt like I was having a heart to heart with the first black woman on the Supreme Court. Okay. Really powerful stuff, y'all. From memoirs and sci fi to mysteries and thrillers, from romance and well being to fiction. Audible's carefully curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment, Audible. I mean, there's more to imagine. When you listen. Go to audible.com bestoftheyear and discover all the year's best waiting for you. How do you feel like that has impacted you creatively? Cause when you. Obviously when we go through things personally, we're dealing with emotional stuff, it affects our art. How soon after this did you feel like you had something you wanted to write about or a song you wanted to create, or even just to sit down and play your flute? Was that on pause or was that a coping magazine? Were you just like with Sasha?

[Lizzo]

Sasha was like, hello, Hello. I. No, I was in the studio immediately.

[Keke Palmer]

Really.

[Lizzo]

I was in. Just to give you a little timeline, I was in Japan for the first time in my life and I was like, I'm staying here for a minute. I had always planned to stay there for a minute. No phone, just in the forest of Kyoto. I landed in la. I went straight to the studio. I've written so many songs that the world will never Hear. Because I was angry.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I was hurt, rightfully so.

[Lizzo]

But music, music saved my life, straight up. Because that period of my life was. I'm not going to cry. I said I wasn't gonna cry because I'm not a fucking victim. We can't just be strong all the time.

[Keke Palmer]

And it's okay when you get your feelings hurt.

[Lizzo]

God, like that time, that period of my life was very dark because of the feeling of betrayal. Not because I was like, oh, my God, like I did something wrong. It was like, no, like the wind was knocked out of me by people that I cared about. And even if it wasn't like, you was my best friend in the whole wide world. I hired you. You know, I believed in you. And. And to feel betrayed on that level was, like, deeply earth shattering. And then the betrayal from the public where they were just like, well, we believe it. You know, we've known you for five years and we've seen, you know, how you stand up for, you know, marginalized people and bigger bodies and black women. But you know what? We don't believe you anymore. I was like, oh, okay. Valid, fair, I get it. And then the betrayal from the media, because the media, all they had to do was read those claims and see, we not gonna do our girl like this. This is ridiculous. But instead, they beefed it up and they made salacious headlines to sell clicks. And that's what's heartbreaking, because I really. I'm such a. Here's this. Here's the silly part about me. I'm such a trusting, naive person. I was talking to my therapist about it and she was like, I'm sorry. She was like, I. You have the assumption of good. Why do you think that if people knew your heart and truly knew who you were, they wouldn't say these things about you anyway? And I had to sit back and go, oh, wow. I just feel like everybody like me. So I had to learn. A little bit of my innocence is gone and a little bit of my free spirit is gone for sure. Because that kind of like mass betrayal is. It's hard for any person to take. I feel like you understand.

[Keke Palmer]

I understand. And I know that a lot of times people see what we do and it feels so far away from you, you know, feels like, oh, you guys are, you know, And I get it. And I'm not trying to say it's not. I don't have a great time doing what I love and being, you know, Kiki Palmer or Lizzo, whatever that means to you. But, you know, We. You give. You give what you have, and it's all you got, you know? And whether that's made you famous or made you money, you know, it's. Your heart's in that girl.

[Lizzo]

I worked so hard to get to this place in my life.

[Keke Palmer]

I know.

[Lizzo]

And it's like, I. Like, I fucking slept out of my car, and I didn't know where I was gonna get my next meal. And I've been through so much pain and loss, and I. And I just try to work through that pain and loss and bring joy to the world. That's it. That's all I try to do. I've never. And that's why for a whole year, I didn't even. I didn't even get on the Internet like that. Mad. I wasn't petty on the Internet, because I don't even want to bring. Even if my pain is valid, that's not my ministry, to bring it to the world like that.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's.

[Lizzo]

So I kept it. I internalized it. I ate that shit.

[Keke Palmer]

You have to just suck it up. Because it's not for me to defend myself. God has to handle my battles for me.

[Lizzo]

And let me tell you something, my God, and that's the capital G. Jehovah, Jireh, Jehovah, Nisi, Jehovah, Shalom. Because they like to front on us famous people. They'd be like, you be praying to lowercase G. No, my God is capital G, y'all.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, okay. Jesus. Jesus got my back.

[Lizzo]

I'm. I'm good. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Mama Kirkwood, my great grandma, she prayed over me. Like, I do feel like I'm gonna be okay. Yes, I feel like I'm gonna be okay. But, you know, this lesson was just massive. And I can't even hold you. I love the version of me that came out of all of this. I really, really do. And I feel like you feel me on that.

[Keke Palmer]

Like, I do, because it changed. These things change you. And again, everybody knows what it's like to be betrayed. Maybe our situation is unique. Whatever. I don't feel like I'm any more. Better than anyone else. This is just my job. This is something I do. It gives it a different platform, a different perspective. But we all know what it's like to be hurt. And for people to not. For us to feel dehumanized, you know? And, oh, my gosh, I'm not. Suddenly, I don't get the opportunity to just be a nuanced person. And that hurts. You can feel it. From being just a black person, from being a woman, from being a queer person, from being an entertainer, whatever that is. Everybody knows what it feels like for people to say, you're not valid, you're void. You are now a one dimensional character. And it hurts.

[Lizzo]

I think that the world put this happy go lucky Persona on me, and I've never gave that. Sure, I have songs that are very positive, but they are about finding the positivity in darkness. It's never just, I'm happy because I'm happy and I feel good as hell. It's no, he don't love you anymore. Walk your fine ass out the door, baby. Do your hair toss, check your nails. How are you feeling now? Oh, I'm good as hell. Like, oh, child, I'm tired of the bullshit. Like, that is what my, my songs are about. That and I've always been so transparent on the Internet where I show you all my different sides, I show you, hey, like, I'm not feeling good today. And I've had interviews where they'd be like, well, why do you choose to share all of that? And it's like, because y'all wouldn't believe. No one believed my joy unless you saw the pain that it came from in the process to get there. So it's like, yeah, am I always smiley and happy go lucky with people every single day? No, I'm not.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, it's not.

[Lizzo]

I'm a human being. Some days I need my space, some days I'm depressed. And if you met me through 2018 to 2021, I was severely depressed and I was working so hard through it all, because becoming famous while being like a super hard worker, like, you work really. I've been working hard since 2000. When did Lizzo Bangers come out? 2013 or whatever. And you take that hard work ethic going from bar to bar, selling your own merch, driving in your own car, being your own tour manager, you do that and then you add fame on top of quadruples. So I was under extreme pressure. A day in my life would be like 6am to 2am that's right. I was doing three separate meet and greets. I had to do rehearsals, I had to do sound checks at my own show, and I had to do interviews all day. And I'm so grateful. Yeah, you have dreams. But does that mean when I interacted with this person once, I wasn't, oh, my God, can we be best friends? Yeah, it means that some days I just needed to be alone. And if you were in my Personal space. And I didn't give you the best friend experience. I'm human. You can't sue somebody because of that. Wow, girl. There's one more thing we need to talk about before we move on. Because let me tell you, like I said, I'm talking about this with you and you only. I'm never talking about it again. This is the least interesting thing about me. It really is. But we gotta talk about the Banana Bar. Cause I've been meaning to get this off my chest.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. The whole banana. Putting it in the mouth. She said, take this now.

[Lizzo]

So Banana Bar is a very popular bar in Amsterdam, and it has exotic performers. I went on my own because I was in Amsterdam, and I was like, man, I'm. I'm finally get to check out Banana Bar. Everybody would talk about it. Yeah, I was chilling. There's one person who. She. She's a dancer. She's also my friend. They were at a birthday dinner, and I was like. For one of the background singers, and I was like, oh. She was like, what y'all doing? I was like, oh, I'm about to go to Banana Bar. What y'all doing? She's like, oh, we had a birthday dinner. And I was like, what y'all doing after? They're like, we don't have. We have nowhere to go. And I was like, what? It's your birthday, you in Amsterdam, you got nowhere to go. Come through. I invited. I did not know who all was coming. They hit me back. They were like, 17 of us. Want to come? I was like, oh, okay. Pull up. That's my nature.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

If I hear people want to have a good time, I'm like, hey, come through. Everybody came through. We had a great time. There were moments because the performer is very consensual, but she's also performing. So she'll ask you. She'll be like, would you like to do this? Would you like to do that? If you say yes, you do it. If you say no, she's like, okay. Moves on. So that was happening all night. And there were moments where there was some wild stuff that happened. But everybody had a great time. Everybody had a great time.

[Keke Palmer]

There was no moment where you was. You know. Because just to be clear, the plaintiffs of the lawsuit claimed that you took them to a strip club in Amsterdam and you began inviting them to take turns touching the new performers, catching dildos launch from the performer's vagina and eating bananas from the performer's vaginas. So was there any moment? Let's set the atmosphere we in air together. Like, girl, you better take that. You better. There was nothing like that.

[Lizzo]

So let's rewind to the first half of this sentence. I took them. I didn't take them anywhere. They came to the club I was at, and it was no mandatory invitation. And I didn't even know that those two particular dancers were coming. Mind you, only two of them came. Even though all three of them said they did it. It was only two. I didn't even know they were coming. But I'm not gonna. I don't know the future, so I'm not gonna be like, hey, you two, get outta here. Like, I was not gonna say, right? Raven, Simone. No, you two gotta go. No, I was like, come through. Like, you know. And was it a fun environment in a bar where everybody's lit and everybody is excited about the things that were happening? Yes. What happens in Banana Bar? We don't stay in Banana Bar. Clearly, it. It comes out for the world to see. But it was one of those experiences where it was very consensual. And I have to stress how consensual it was, because this bar has been like this since 1945. If they were doing things non consensually, they would have been sued.

[Keke Palmer]

Right. Going back to that thing I was saying earlier with the whole, you know, boss, employee scenario, even if you don't see yourself being overly like, I'm the boss, they may see you that way. Do you feel, looking back on the situation, that maybe your casual, like, bar personality could have been misconstrued as, I gotta do this because this is my boss? Just because that's how they're seeing it, honey.

[Lizzo]

The boundaries that I have now are as wide as the ocean. I don't think that people who I employ should even be privy to how I am in a bar at this. You know, I think that this experience taught me healthy boundaries. But to be real with you. It was such a fun night.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

And everyone. And everyone.

[Keke Palmer]

But what you're saying is so important because I think there's a time where there's a difference between having boundaries and professional boundaries and have, you know, thinking you're better than other people. And I think sometimes we've gotten them conflated and it's made us have no boundaries. Where it's like, now I'm just being hella cool in every way, in which way, because I want people to know that I'm not doing too much, but it's like, maybe we should do a little bit more, you know, And I.

[Lizzo]

Think it's nuanced and it's really. It's a new conversation in this industry. But I'm not gonna change the fact that I wrong and in life.

[Keke Palmer]

To any entrepreneur. I think this is an important conversation. If you're starting a business.

[Lizzo]

Bosses.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Bosses. Around that relationship, that professional relationship. Even if these are your friends or these people are your age and you really like them. If you are in a position of a boss. I think it is important to think about it this way because you might find yourself in a situation where you don't even really know that that's how that person feels. Or now maybe that wasn't how they feel, that they're gonna say that's how they feel or which way is which. All cause you was trying to be down and be cool with everybody.

[Lizzo]

I really was. Because that's just the world that I know I was. But I don't think that's gonna change about me. I think that I'm still gonna have a very like family style feel.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

However, there's just things that I know now that will keep me safe and them safe. Like. That's right. Being in bars. And even when I didn't invite you to the bar, if you show up. You know what I mean? What to do in those situations. As a boss.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Lizzo]

Which is important.

[Keke Palmer]

It is. You know, and I'm. I'm learning too.

[Lizzo]

Amen.

[Keke Palmer]

I would love to talk to you about what this new music is.

[Lizzo]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

What is on the new horizon. What else we're going to get from you.

[Lizzo]

Yeah. Exclusive. My album is done. I'm so happy. People thought that I was on a gap year, but Mama was working. Mama was in the studio. Mama was. Hey. Mama was writing lyrics, melodies and limericks.

[Keke Palmer]

So tell me because, like, what is going to be the tone, sonically? Are we still keeping it upbeat? Are the conversations still going to be like what you said Joy. But about the alchemization of hard times. What are the vibes that we're going to get into?

[Lizzo]

I think that's always been my ministry is to just like I'm an alchemist. It's like when there's hard times, how do I turn this into something positive and not toxic? Positivity. Which is this new phrase that's out there. But.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

Which is, I would say, more unrealistic positivity. But it's just more like, hey, what you gonna do? Let's talk this out.

[Keke Palmer]

This is saving my life.

[Lizzo]

So a lot.

[Keke Palmer]

Hello.

[Lizzo]

So a lot of the music is me talking things through, but I kind of had a breakthrough halfway through. I have a lot of angry songs, a lot of dark songs, a lot of moody songs, a lot of sad songs. And then somewhere around February, I had a breakthrough, and I was just like this. I. I remembered. My purpose is to remain true to myself, be who I am, and continue to bring that in my art. So I'm putting everything in the art I always have.

[Keke Palmer]

And I love what you said, too, about. Even though the songs are angry, sad, whatever, and they may not be the version you want the world to. I think in life, those are the steps we have to take in order to get to that other side. Hello. So it's so important, like, if you got to be angry, you know, be angry. If you got to be sad, be sad. I'm the same way. But then when I get out of that, then that's when I get the juice of what I'm really looking for. Come on, Juice.

[Lizzo]

Okay. Yeah. It would be a shame to, like, imagine if last year, all this stuff happened to me, and I walked in the studio and was like, so I'm walking down the street, and I feel good as hell. Part two, Right?

[Keke Palmer]

I'm sorry. I like singing your songs, Kiki. I went too far.

[Lizzo]

But it's like, that is like, that is it. That is how you get through things in life. You have to process. And even if that processing isn't for the world, I still did it. You still have to live it.

[Keke Palmer]

One of your biggest hits is called Truth hurts. And on June 21, 2019, one of your most liked Instagram posts you wrote, I learned in the last 24 hours that being emotionally honest can save your life. To the same point, we're talking about, how do you do it? What is the key to emotional honesty? And not just in. In your music, but in your life? What is the key to that level of authenticity?

[Lizzo]

I forgot that I said that. You be saying stuff, I be spitting. Let her cook. I want to credit my therapist.

[Keke Palmer]

I love the constant talk of the therapist. I feel the same way about my girl. Yep, she is good.

[Lizzo]

Yep. I got a black woman. We'd be sitting on that couch, understanding, listen. And I've had her since 2018, where, you know, the way that I was feeling and was getting in the way of my art and my craft and being an artist, and nothing had ever gotten away of that before. So I was like, oh, it's about to affect the bag. Let me talk to a therapist. But I used to. When I was upset, I used to shut Down. I didn't express myself. I didn't express what bothered me. I didn't stand up for myself. And I'm. I learned how to be more expressive just by talking to her. Because I didn't have anyone in my life that I could sit and say, hey, like I'm real depressed today. Like I don't want to live. And the person wouldn't ring the alarm. And it's nice to sit with someone and be able to say that. And they can be just a listening ear and they don't freak out because when I say that to someone who cares about me, they start crying and stuff. And then I gotta to. Now I got to help them. Yeah, who's helping me? So I always had.

[Keke Palmer]

Who's helping me?

[Lizzo]

Period. So I always had a fear of that and I always had that issue. But I think she helped me find the words to. In. In the mediums, to be able to do it, to do it through my music, to do it on stage, you know, to do it in real time to people when they actually have hurt me. And I used to internalize it or they would disrespect me and I would internalize it. Like being able to be like, hey, that bothered me. And also identifying what bothered me and not just having my triggers be so highly stacked on top of something that happened years ago that now I don't even know why I'm mad. You triggered me with this little thing and I'm like, But when the fifth grade, no one paid attention to me. And now you're. And it's like, girl, like, you know, clear them triggers out, heal that so that you can just identify your problem in real time, you know. So I've been working on that for years and I think that it is life saving because when you're so repressed and you're so bottled up, like I said, one small thing could trigger a very deep emotion and you can get a very deep reaction.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right. I've been in therapy since I was 17. You know, I'm 31 now, so I've been going, you know, had one from when I was a kid and had one as an adult. And I'm huge on it. Dealt with depression, anxiety. We all deal with so much in this world. But I do think it's important whether it's narrative. Edmr. Find out what it is that works for you.

[Lizzo]

I was interested in edmr. Is that where you look around?

[Keke Palmer]

I was like spooked a little bit.

[Lizzo]

I was.

[Keke Palmer]

But it's like, what you gonna tap my ass back to? Cause this is some stuff where they like clapping and tapping and you looking off and then all of a sudden you be like, ah. Like, I don't wanna go. You know, sometimes forgetting is a gift.

[Lizzo]

Oh, God. Blink twice if you entangle.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, I was watching that movie and I thought to myself, this movie, not in the context of this movie. But I do love to forget. Please, I don't wanna remember every detail of my embarrassment. Oh, my God. You also said before in a post something about using sadness as a tool for gratitude. I love the sound of that.

[Lizzo]

I don't know.

[Keke Palmer]

I want to know what it means. You did.

[Lizzo]

Come on, Pastor. I mean, I definitely did that. Now I'm in the clearest space of gratitude that I've ever been in. And I think it's because it's that old saying where it's like you have to go through the rain to appreciate the sunshine. That's right. And it's like these cliches are cliche because they're true.

[Keke Palmer]

They're true. That's how I feel too. I've been learning that as I got older because, you know, you, you we know it's cliche because when we were kids, people like, this is a cliche.

[Lizzo]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

When you get older, like cliche, it.

[Lizzo]

Just means truth be clicking a little bit. It'd be cliche because the sadness can swallow you.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Lizzo]

And you can't see the forest for the trees and you see no way out. And I think using realizing, I've done this before, I can do it again. I've done this before, I could do it again. This is going to lead to something great. I think is. It's hard to say to someone who's going through it, but I can only say it for myself. It works. It works, honey. And I sit in my sadness and I'm like, what about this is molding me into a better person? You know, don't nothing happen to me for no reason. You know what I mean, too?

[Keke Palmer]

What you're speaking, that's going back to our boy God.

[Lizzo]

Come on.

[Keke Palmer]

Because that's faith. And it's true. Especially when you do go through stuff, you have the opportunity to look back and say, I can do this. I mean, I couldn't agree with everything you're saying more because I'm the same way. It'd be sad. I'm in my sadness. But each step I get closer and it's behind me. And I know I could keep going forward for the next time. It's so true.

[Lizzo]

I remember, like, rejection is protection too sometimes. Because when you don't get what you want, sometimes you just be so hung up in the sadness, but you don't even see what you were saved from.

[Keke Palmer]

And the truth is, God doesn't take away gold to give you silver. Hopefully gold is still more meaning in this.

[Lizzo]

It is, it is. But you know what? Oh, wow.

[Keke Palmer]

Diamonds or rubies.

[Lizzo]

You know what I just realized? So when there's gold and there's white gold and that's what be looking. Silver. I just found this out. Cause they'll be like, you want gold? And I was like, no, I want silver. And they'd be like, you mean white gold. I was like, oh, excuse me.

[Keke Palmer]

Just give me the no play.

[Lizzo]

You know what I'm saying?

[Keke Palmer]

Sometimes they get so much and you be like, look, I don't know. New to the money. Okay. The chorus of Juice goes. It ain't my fault that I'm out here getting loose Gotta blame it on the goose Gotta blame it on my juice bag. What were you trying to say at the time? What does it mean for you? Is it simple?

[Lizzo]

That song, I really hate to say this, but it is really about nothing.

[Keke Palmer]

But you know what? Sizzle says that same type of thing to me. When she told me the Weeknd was a complete joke song, I was like, what? Oh, she was like, I was just being funny, like, you know, making a pun.

[Lizzo]

Sizzilations, like, she's a philosopher.

[Keke Palmer]

Y'all both be doing that.

[Lizzo]

Let me tell you, this girl is my favorite songwriter. She actually is my favorite songwriter. She is the. I mean, she got so mad when I said this on Kaisana, but I'm like, you are the artist of our generation. Like, we love you so much.

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, she definitely is really beloved. And when I think about control, you know, just thinking about the. Obviously she's had even greater records after this, but I just think the entrance of that is very representative of what you said, because it really shook us. We all was like somebody saying something and not. I'm not trying to say other people don't say something, but. But it just hit us in a particular way. But I also feel that way about you too. I think you're such a remarkable artist. And I feel like even with this moment in your journey, it's speaking to something bigger. So many themes that we all are feeling, you know, whether it be betrayal, not being seen, having to move forward from difficult times, not allowing other people's perception of you to be your Perception of yourself. I mean, people are dealing with this on a day to day basis, whether they're, you know, as big of a star as you or not. So I think it's just going to continue to propel that story and your ability to empower others forward.

[Lizzo]

I mean, and there's some really deep moments on this album. And I hope that people understand how much I think about these lyrics and put so much into it and obsess over it and obsess over the music to make sure that it's just right. I'm not gonna say perfect, but that is just right. But also, there's a kind of sloppiness to some of these songs that I don't allow myself to do that I hope the listener appreciates and the fans appreciate to feel like they were with me in some of these, like, deeper moments.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm very excited to hear this album. I know you maybe don't. Do you have a date that you can let us know when we get it? I mean, maybe I'm digging too much.

[Lizzo]

Honey, you're gonna have the word and say, Let me just tell you, like, 2024 is. Is. Is. Girl has somewhere to go.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay.

[Lizzo]

2025, we live.

[Keke Palmer]

I love 24. Got somewhere to go. 2025, we live. Yes. And I know the visuals are gonna be amazing because you changed my life with your visuals.

[Lizzo]

Oh. What?

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. I love your visuals and just like, amping up the storyline. Give us a narrative, give us something to follow. So I'm very excited to hear this new album. And I'm really, really, really happy that you came to hang out with me and talk to me. I feel like we gotta do this more offline. I know. I was like, you're a lot of fun.

[Lizzo]

Oh, I'm people. I'm so fun. I'm fun when I'm out, But let me tell you, for the most part, I'll be in the house.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, you sound like you like to drink. Blame it on the good goose. Are you really a goose drinker?

[Lizzo]

Like, not a goose.

[Keke Palmer]

What you be drinking? I'm a tequila girl. I'm a tequila girl, period.

[Lizzo]

Hands down, I'm a Shaquila girl.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, now, what's Shaquille?

[Lizzo]

Champagne and tequila.

[Keke Palmer]

You put me on to something. I feel like that's gonna have me on my ass.

[Lizzo]

It'll take you there.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm ready.

[Lizzo]

It'll take you all the way down there, up there, on the side to side, on your ass, up in the. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. So obviously it's the Christmas season. This is the Christmas edition, and I love to play games with all my guests. So I wanna play with you. Sorry to this man. It's a game where I'm gonna play popular Christmas songs. And because you play the flute, they're gonna be flute covers and you have to guess the name of the song. But the catch is you only get to hear a few seconds of the song. And if you don't name the song, you have to say sorry to this man. Sounds good.

[Lizzo]

Wow. Okay. Sounds good. Oh, these are Christmas songs.

[Keke Palmer]

Christmas songs. Give her another bit.

[Lizzo]

Oh, Jingle bell, jingle bell. But the problem is, is that was the bluesy, jazzy version of it. So it's not this. It wasn't the same exact notes. They used a whole different.

[Keke Palmer]

She's giving you guys a critique, so take it.

[Lizzo]

Jingle bell, jingle bell Jingle bell Rock is the major. That was like a slightly minor.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my God, she's reading.

[Lizzo]

But anyway, keep going.

[Keke Palmer]

I lived for that breed. Okay, next one.

[Lizzo]

Oh, my God. All I want for Christmas.

[Keke Palmer]

I don't know.

[Lizzo]

Can we just make that the national anthem?

[Keke Palmer]

It's become that. Like, it's actually become.

[Lizzo]

I'm tired of playing around with her like, she's the one.

[Keke Palmer]

She's.

[Lizzo]

Give it to Mariah. Give her a thing.

[Keke Palmer]

Give her everything.

[Lizzo]

Yeah, take me.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, next one.

[Lizzo]

No. Dawson's Creek.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, that's what it gave.

[Lizzo]

Wait, but that. Because I got that. That wasn't flute. That was guitar. So let me hear the rest of it. Let me hear the flute part.

[Keke Palmer]

This ain't good to me.

[Lizzo]

That's not a good melody.

[Keke Palmer]

That is this.

[Lizzo]

They're riffing. Wait, keep. I. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

I gave you my heart last Christmas Very first. Oh, he gave it away. See, that one is so melancholy.

[Lizzo]

That's not even her song.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm sad this holiday.

[Lizzo]

They don't even go like that. She don't even go here. She doesn't even go here. Sorry to this, man. Had to.

[Keke Palmer]

Next one.

[Lizzo]

Frosty the Snowman. No. Damn. Rocking around, around the Christmas tree but.

[Keke Palmer]

Why would you sing. I felt like you were singing Frosty with rocking, though. Like it was rocking around with Frosty. She kind of got that. Because I feel like she meant to say rocking, but she said frosting around.

[Lizzo]

Frosting around. Wait, but that was a weird intro.

[Keke Palmer]

I love that. It's always you all.

[Lizzo]

It's her fault.

[Keke Palmer]

She's like. It's actually you guys my fault. Okay, this is the last one.

[Lizzo]

Sorry to this man. I. I lost two.

[Keke Palmer]

This is going to be Good.

[Lizzo]

Gotta wait for the flute. Have yourself a merry little Christmas. Yes. Come on now.

[Keke Palmer]

Stop. My girl knows music.

[Lizzo]

When you give me the melody, I.

[Keke Palmer]

Can the shade to the team. Are you guys receiving this?

[Lizzo]

I'm just kidding.

[Keke Palmer]

Last question. This is just a fun one for me because I love the holiday. What's your favorite Christmas movie, girl?

[Lizzo]

Oh, wow, that's hard. Right O. I love this question. Favorite Christmas movie. Give me a second because I thought it and then I forgot it.

[Keke Palmer]

I'll name a couple of mine. I love Ada's Christmas Carol.

[Lizzo]

Oh, my God. I don't know that one.

[Keke Palmer]

It's Vanessa Williams and she's literally used. She was a diva back in the day. She used to be part of a group. And this. She's like Scrooge. It's a take of Ebenezer Scrooge. And she's so good in it. Very good.

[Lizzo]

Oh, wait a minute. I remember that now. Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

And she be like, oh, my gosh, what's her song? Oh, my gosh, she has a song. Ugh, I forget it. But it is so good. A diva's Christmas carol used to come on Lifetime every year. Me and my sister will watch it down.

[Lizzo]

You just unlocked a memory core. Memory like something back there just went. I have two.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Lizzo]

So the holiday that's with Cameron Diaz and Kate win slits.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, and it's when they swap lives. I'm about to go watch that. I'm missed that one.

[Lizzo]

It's really, really sweet. It's got Jack Black and Love Jack Black. Oh, my God.

[Keke Palmer]

Jello house.

[Lizzo]

What is his name? Jade Law. Oh, and I said, who? Jude Law and then Preacher's Wife.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay.

[Lizzo]

Come on.

[Keke Palmer]

Preacher's Wife. I love that one, too. Oh, my gosh. Our girl Whitney.

[Lizzo]

If there's snow, it's a Christmas movie.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right. I also love Santa Claus. Tim Allen. Come on.

[Lizzo]

Oh, yeah. How's he doing? Is that how you do? I'm so bad. I'm bad under pressure.

[Keke Palmer]

I absolutely cannot. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You're absolutely amazing.

[Lizzo]

I could honestly talk to you for, like, two more hours. Four hours.

[Keke Palmer]

Maybe you should just come often when the album comes out. Will you come and give me the first play?

[Lizzo]

Oh, I would love that.

[Keke Palmer]

I would love that, too.

[Lizzo]

Listen, they want the Joe Rogan of the left, ladies and gentlemen.

[Keke Palmer]

I actually live for this. I actually live for this.

[Lizzo]

Oh, stop the presses. Come on, guys.

[Keke Palmer]

I hope you had a good time hanging out with me and Lizzo. Obviously, she's amazing and I appreciate you for coming on. Happy Holidays everyone. This is gonna be a great time. Hopefully you're enjoying cuddle up with family. Getting you some eggnog. Lactose. That is for people that have that issue. That's me. And keep hanging out and watching the show because I have another episode. You know, it's your girl. Baby this is. This is Kiki. Baby this is Kiki Palmer. Yeah, enjoy. Baby this is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby this is Keke Palmer early and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Baby this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Seagal is our post producer. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for Team Keke. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonti. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candice Manriquez. Ritt. Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Lub.