Oprah Winfrey on Knowing Your Worth

Summary

Baby, This Is Keke Palmer

Episode: Oprah Winfrey on Knowing Your Worth

Host: Keke Palmer
Guest: Oprah Winfrey
Release Date: July 21, 2026

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode is a full-circle, deeply personal, and insightful conversation between Keke Palmer and Oprah Winfrey, focusing on self-worth, purpose, growth, and the journey of becoming. Keke explores the sustaining motivations behind Oprah's enduring impact, the lessons learned from hardship, the value of ownership, faith, intentionality in work and life, and what it means to be a Black woman in the public eye. The episode is packed with wisdom, vulnerability, humor, and memorable stories—making it a masterclass in self-knowledge and authentic living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Names, Identity & Full Circle Moments

• Oprah explains her birth name "Orpah," its biblical origins, and how it morphed to "Oprah" due to frequent misspellings ([02:37]-[03:25]).
  • "I was a kid and nobody knew how to spell it... Once they started with Oprah, that's it." — Oprah ([02:58])
• Keke reveals her real name is Lauren Kiana, and Oprah recognizes her from a TED Talk ([03:31]-[03:44]).
• They reminisce about their first meeting and Keke’s childhood appearance on "The Oprah Winfrey Show," giving their conversation a nostalgic, full-circle feeling ([00:00], [74:14]-[75:33]).

2. The Joy & Intimacy of Podcasting

• Oprah shares that her current obsession is the intimacy of podcasting, contrasting it with the rushed nature of daytime television ([04:56]-[05:26]).
  • "I love it because it's just like this. It's so intimate..." — Oprah ([04:56])
• Oprah confesses she’s “terrible at cutting to commercial break” when deep conversations need space ([05:28]).

3. On Home as Sanctuary & Life’s Pleasures

• Oprah’s favorite place: Italy, but she also treasures her home sanctuary ([05:49]-[06:46]).
  • "My home is a sanctuary... look no further than your own backyard." — Oprah ([06:46])
• Favorite guilty pleasure: "Doing absolutely nothing"—savoring rest, reading, rainy days, and solitude ([15:14]-[16:35]).
  • "My perfect day ... day has gone and I say, what have I accomplished? Not one damn thing." — Oprah ([15:14])

4. Notable Guests & Inspirations

• Most surprising guest: Author Alan Levi, who embodied kindness and genuine curiosity ([07:13]-[08:49]).
• Powerful story of being surprised by Mary Tyler Moore on-air and realizing the impact of representation and ownership ([08:49]-[11:57]).
  • "It was her own production company... first time that I realized, oh, you could own yourself, your product..." — Oprah ([11:23])

5. Self-Worth, Ownership & Taking Risks

• Journey to owning "The Oprah Winfrey Show" and learning to value ownership, catalyzed by a pivotal contract negotiation ([12:28]-[14:59]).
  • "Owning that show was the transition into me owning myself in so many ways." — Oprah ([12:28])
• Early resistance she faced as a Black woman with ambition ([11:57]).
  • "How dare you use that language?" — About being called arrogant for claiming she wanted to be a mogul.

6. Mentorship, Survival & Spiritual Anchors

• Mentors: Maya Angelou, Sidney Poitier, Quincy Jones, Coretta Scott King ([17:36]).
• Sagely advice from Maya Angelou in dealing with tabloid cruelty and online hate ([17:54]-[20:44]):
  • "Those people can’t hold a candle to the light that God already has shining on your face." — Maya Angelou, as quoted by Oprah ([20:03])
• Oprah’s faith as foundational (“sunrise faith”), seeing life’s challenges as lessons for consciousness growth ([23:18]-[24:58], [53:16]-[57:52]).

7. Gratitude, Reflection & Seeing Your Growth

• Practicing gratitude and periodically “turning around to see how far you’ve come” ([21:12]-[22:26]).
  • "Before you know it, you're halfway there ... and if you came all that way, you can get to the top." — Oprah ([21:12]-[22:06])

8. Intentionality in Work

• "Seed of the Soul" by Gary Zukav and implementing intention as the axis for her team and programming ([25:22]-[27:22]).
  • "Before there’s a cause, there’s an intention ... that intention is going to always determine the effect." — Oprah ([26:00]-[26:26])

9. Aligning with Purpose & Recognizing Your Calling

• Living "your best life" is about freedom—making choices rooted in authentic desire, but you have to earn your way there ([29:15]-[30:30]).
  • "You have to do what you need to do until you can do what you want to do." — Oprah ([29:53])
• The importance of real self-inquiry: "Is what you want what you want, or what you always thought you were supposed to want?" ([32:18])

10. Love, Shame, and Self-Esteem

• Oprah recounts unhealthy early relationships, self-abandonment, and breaking generational cycles ([35:29]-[38:41]).
• Realizes relationships that diminish you are about your own self-worth, not the other person (“Thank your worst relationships, they’re your best teachers”) ([37:34]-[38:41]).
  • "It's not about him. Now I thank him." — Oprah ([37:34])
• The danger of shrinking to make others comfortable, and the journey to embracing your own extraordinariness ([39:14]-[40:33]).

11. On Being a Black Woman in the Spotlight

• They discuss how perceptions, expectations, and “imposter syndrome” affect Black women, but faith and sense of purpose provide resilience ([45:12]-[53:16]).
  • "No weapon formed against you shall prosper because you are in alignment with that thing, that force that makes the sun come up every morning." — Oprah ([56:43])
• Oprah: “It never occurred to me that I couldn’t do what I’ve done. I always saw myself as a little black girl who was truly God’s child.” ([50:49])

12. Scaling Philosophy Into Business

• Oprah clarifies her “brand” is an outgrowth of living her truth and being of service ([57:52]-[60:02]).
  • "I wanted to be whole. I wanted to fulfill the mission of my calling. I wanted to honor God's dream for me." — Oprah ([58:23])

13. Knowing When You’re in Alignment

• The difference between being led by outcomes versus being led by inner truth ([60:10]-[61:44]).
  • "It means you listened to something beyond the voice in your head ... Every decision that has brought you success ... has come from that space." — Oprah ([61:44])

14. On Solitude, Loneliness & Community

• Oprah has never experienced loneliness as an adult, finding deep comfort in her own company (“I am the best company I could ever keep for myself.”) ([68:55])
• Early loneliness was rooted more in feeling unwhole rather than being physically alone ([69:14]-[69:59]).

15. Generational Shifts in Black Women’s Self-Image

• Today's young women display more independence and self-possession; Oprah’s mentorship toward self-acceptance and relationships ([70:24]-[73:24]).

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Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | [04:56] | "Favorite thing I'm obsessed with right now is actually doing my podcast. I love it because it's just like this. It's so intimate." | Oprah | | [06:46] | "My home is a sanctuary...look no further than your own backyard." | Oprah | | [11:23] | "You could own yourself, you could own your product, you could own what you're putting out into the world." | Oprah | | [12:28] | "Owning that show was the transition into me owning myself in so many ways." | Oprah | | [15:14] | "Doing absolutely nothing...Not one damn thing. That's my favorite guilty pleasure." | Oprah | | [20:03] | "Those people can’t hold a candle to the light that God already has shining on your face." | Maya Angelou (via Oprah) | | [21:12] | "If you start out looking at how far you have to go, you will be thwarted...stop and turn around and look. Wow." | Oprah | | [22:07] | "If you just stop and look at how far you have already come, how you weren't even supposed to be where you are right now. Nobody. You didn't even think you could make it through some things, but you did." | Oprah | | [25:22] | "Shows with intention...You have to tell me at the top of the idea what the intention is." | Oprah | | [29:53] | "You have to do what you have to do until you can do what you want to do." | Oprah | | [37:34] | "It’s not about him. Now I thank him. I realized all the bad relationships were my best teachers." | Oprah | | [40:33] | "We all are special. I truly believe this." | Keke Palmer | | [50:49] | "It never occurred to me that I couldn't do what I've done...I always saw myself as a little black girl who was truly God's child." | Oprah | | [56:43] | "No weapon formed against you shall prosper because you are in alignment with that thing, that force that makes the sun come up every morning." | Oprah | | [68:55] | "I'm always with myself. And I am the best company I could ever keep for myself." | Oprah |

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Noteworthy Segments & Timestamps

• Origins & Names: [02:37]–[03:44]
• Oprah’s Podcasting Joy: [04:56]–[05:25]
• Mary Tyler Moore Surprise/Ownership Inspiration: [08:49]–[11:57]
• Lessons from Maya Angelou about Criticism & Faith: [17:54]–[23:04]
• Intentionality & Seed of the Soul: [25:22]–[27:22]
• Freedom, Work, and Living Your Best Life: [29:15]–[30:30]
• Love, Relationships, Generational Trauma: [35:29]–[38:41]
• Scaling Purpose-Driven Business: [57:52]–[60:02]
• Solitude & Never Feeling Lonely: [68:55]–[69:14]
• Generational Changes in Women’s Self-Worth: [70:24]–[73:24]
• Full-Circle Clip: Keke on Oprah as a Child: [74:14]–[75:36]

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Tone & Language

Throughout the episode, Keke and Oprah’s tone is honest, warm, candid, and rich with storytelling. Both celebrate vulnerability; Oprah remains nurturing yet challenging, while Keke brings humor, curiosity, and relatable energy.

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For Listeners New & Old

This episode serves both as a riveting masterclass in self-knowledge and as an intimate peek into the personal philosophies and stories that have shaped Oprah Winfrey’s legendary career. It’s ideal for anyone seeking inspiration to live more intentionally, especially those wrestling with issues of worth, purpose, faith, ambition, and authenticity.

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Recommended for reflective listening, note-taking, and sharing with anyone seeking to own their journey—no matter the mountain or the rainbow ahead.

Transcript

[A]

I'm sitting down with Oprah Winfrey. Yes, Oprah. Or as I know her, Orpah, the Emmy winning host, producer, actor, author, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and media icon who changed daytime television, built her own network, created one of the most influential book clubs ever, and made millions of people feel like their story mattered. I was 12 years old when I first sat with Oprah on her show. So this moment is full circle in ways I am still processing. She's helped generations ask bigger questions about who they are and what they came here to do. But my question is, when you've been Oprah for this long, what still surprises you about yourself or about life? We're getting into joy, love, purpose, friendship. And what happens when the woman who gave everybody else aha moments is still having a few of her own? Baby, this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling, pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all, especially the bad. Cause money's always evolved. No matter what it is. We gonna make it make sense. Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings. So grab you a drink and a snack, you enjoy. And get into the vibe that only you know it's your girl. This is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Seventh Generation. I know I'm extra. They know I'm extra. We've made peace with it. But my cleaning products don't get to be extra. They get to work. 7th generation keeps it simple so I don't have to pretend otherwise. Let's get into today's show. Baby, this is Keke Palmer. And, baby, this is Oprah Winfrey. Come on out.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I didn't know you were wearing white.

[A]

Wait a minute. This outfit is everything.

[B]

No, yours is. I should have to wear black and white and almost.

[A]

You look so good. Why would you keep me up on my show like this? This is crazy. Now, wait, I have to ask. Should I call you Ms. Winfrey? Oprah, can I call you Oprah?

[B]

Everybody calls me Oprah. You can also call me O.

[A]

Yes. Okay. Oh, I'm so happy to be with you.

[B]

I'm so happy to be with you.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. It's always good time to see you. And now this time, I get to actually talk with you.

[B]

I know we've been in many things where we're, like, listening to other people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

All of those summits.

[A]

Yep. Conferences, conferences and things. I'm in the Conference era.

[B]

I know.

[A]

You know, I'm at the right one and Orpah's there.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Now wait a minute.

[B]

Sitting right next to you, I found

[A]

out that your name was originally Orpah.

[B]

It was Orpah from the Bible. Ruth, first chapter 14 verse. You know, it's that whole Ruth and Naomi story. And, you know, Ruth said, wherever thy goest, I will go. And then Orpah said, I'm going back. I'm sorry, I can't. Too long. Road's too long now.

[A]

What made you go to Oprah?

[B]

It is not what made me. I was a kid and nobody knew how to spell it. So it turned out on my birth certificate, it's or pa. And then people started calling me Oprah. And so it's just a difference between the P being before the R or after the R. Yeah. So once they started with Oprah, that's it. I didn't learn until I was like, probably 20 or something that, oh, this isn't really my name.

[A]

And is it still on your birth certificate? As Orpah.

[B]

As Orpah.

[A]

Wow. We have so much in common. Because I'm actually Iki.

[B]

Iki. I thought you were Lauren Kiana. Okay.

[A]

Yes, I am. You know my name.

[B]

Lauren. That's your real name.

[A]

That is. I'm so happy that you knew that. Yes, Lauren, that is very cool.

[B]

You know how I know that? Because I watched your TED Talk.

[A]

Well, I have a lot to ask you about that TED Talk because I feel like there's so much I've never done. One insight that you have given me. Really?

[B]

No, I've never done one. Tell me what did you did one.

[A]

Do you think? Do you know what you want to talk about?

[B]

Oh, I don't. You know, the reason I've never done one. I don't know how I can get it all in like. Is it like 14 minutes? Yours was like 12 minutes and something.

[A]

Yes, 12 minutes. Shout out to Chi. I mean, they put you with great coaches. She was with me along the process. I didn't know how I was going to arrive at where I arrived, but through the conversations, I slowly started writing and then I had to scrap couple of them. Like, I had maybe like two or three speeches before I got to that one.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And are you just talking? It sounds like it's just coming outta your head. You're not reading from a prompter. You're not. Wow, that was beautifully done.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Beautifully done, beautifully done.

[A]

Thank you. Some people do go up there with paper, but they really prefer you to know the whole bit.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, well, I do know the whole bit, but I just. I don't know how to do it in 14 minutes. But I could. I guess I could.

[A]

Yes, without a doubt. Well, you know, I always do a pre show pull up with my guests, but I made yours specially for you, of course, because it's.

[B]

Okay. Let's see what it is.

[A]

Okay. Favorite thing you're obsessed with right now?

[B]

Favorite thing I'm obsessed with right now is actually doing my podcast. I love it because it's just like this. It's so intimate. You know, I've done the talking thing forever and ever, but I love the intimacy of being one on one and having a conversation with people that you really are motivated to talk to. Because just like you, it's so fun. You talk to who you want to

[A]

talk to and there's not a time limit. Like, I think often with daytime talk, you know, it's like five minutes.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

You cannot say much in that quick time.

[B]

I mean. And the thing that I was always so terrible at is cutting to commercial break. I was always, always, always over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so hard to interrupt somebody, especially if you're doing something really serious. Excuse me, I gotta take a commercial break. You know, so it was always challenging.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Favorite place in the world?

[B]

Italy.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Any place in Italy.

[A]

Tell me about it. I've never. Have I been to Italy. I've been to Italy once. I don't think I've done enough traveling. So what makes Italy so special?

[B]

The food. The people that always do it. Yeah, the food and the people and the sense of family, camaraderie, community. I like the idea of, like, walking down a cobblestone little street and going to get your bread at the end of the.

[A]

Come on. That meme when you said, I love bread.

[B]

I love bread. I still love bread, and I still love bread. That's so good. So that's one of my favorite places in the world to be. But I will actually tell you this. I have created such a beautiful, blessed life for myself that it's hard to get me to leave the front gate. I mean, really many times that means

[A]

the home is a sanctuary.

[B]

Yeah, my home is a sanctuary.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, I love the view.

[B]

Every time I look out in my backyard, I say, I understand what Glinda the Good Witch meant when she said, look no further than your own backyard. Yes.

[A]

Now that is really something special.

[B]

It is very special.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I love that so much. Please invite me some time.

[B]

I will.

[A]

You will love my love. I need to come up with my backyard.

[B]

You will love my backyard. Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Favorite guest who surprised you. Now, this could be somebody that's on your current podcast, or it could be somebody from the past or people in the box.

[B]

Okay. Favorite guest who surprised me recently was. I'm so excited to hear. Was a guy named Alan Levi who's written this book called Theo of Golden. Lots of people are reading it. I know you've read it. And here's the thing. That guy who wrote the book, Alan Levi, is really Theo of Golden. So Theo of Golden is this guy who comes into a town, he goes to a coffee shop. He sees all these pictures on the wall that have been drawn by a local artist. And then he decides to take each picture, buy it, and then meet with each person. And the whole idea is that everybody has a special life story and that to be able to look at people's lives. So this guy who came on my show, Alan Levi, best guest I've ever had. And I've had some guests. I've literally Talked to over 3,500 people, one on one. Okay.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Okay. And that's why when I'm talking to my girls, all these girls I mentor from South Africa, I go, you ought to listen to me. Cause I have had 3,500 conversations. So anyway, Alan Levi, when he was done, went and introduced himself to every crew member. Not just introduced himself to every crew member, but wanted to hear every crew member's story, which, you know, takes up a lot of time. And every single guest that we had that was asking him a question, he had a question for them. So his interest in other people. I love it when people show kindness. Real, real goodness toward other people. That's number one favorite surprise guest. Okay. The other was. Honey. I think it was 90s or something. 1990s something. There was a show called the Mary Tyler Moore Show.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Come on. You're gonna make it after all. Yes, yes.

[B]

And throwing up the hat. I had done that whole little skit where I went out and I put on the hat and the clothes and the huh, huh. And the Mary and throwing it up thing. And so we were doing this show on Mary Memories, on all of us who love Mary. And I'm talking about Mary Tyler Moore and out walks Mary Tyler Moore. I think I've seen out walks Mary Tyler Moore.

[A]

Too much.

[B]

Too much. And you know what? I lost it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I lost it. I Lost it. I lost everything. I went into the headache. Ugly cry.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, you ugly cry. And then you ugly cry so much. Now you have a headache, and now your nose is running and the whole thing. Oh, my God. And I said to my producers after that, that's it. I can never be surprised again. Oh, my gosh, Never. Never. And not until the last show, which, you know, we did from the United center, where there were all these surprises, including Beyonce, that they were like, please, please, please, we just need to be able to surprise you. Because during that show, I, like, wanted to pee on myself. I was like, nose was running all the things over that with Mary Tyler Moore. And I was like, do you understand what this means to me? And she was like, I kind of do. I think I do. So I. You know why she said, I think I do. I think I do. Because when I was growing, when I was first started in news, Mary was it. There was no dating on Saturday night. I would watch the Mary Tyler Moore show, wash my hair, roller set under the dryer, with the blow dryer with the whole thing with the rollers, and then followed by the Bob Newhart show.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

That was my routine. Mary. So getting surprised by Mary.

[A]

Yeah, that is. That's. It's something so special about people being in their home with you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, I mean, I'm sure you know it obviously, personally, because people have that same. We all have that same affinity for you. So.

[B]

But no, but listen to this. This is. This is also. You never know who you've inspired. Actually, I run into people all the time to say, you inspired me. I ran into a girl in the bathroom yesterday who said, I'm a journalist because of you. And I went, that makes me so proud. But I. Part of the reason I am who I am is because I was watching the Mary Tyler Moore show. And at the end of the Mary Tyler Moore show, remember this? There's a little MTM and a little cat that comes out that goes meow. And it was her own production company, mtm. It's the first time that I realized, oh, you could own yourself, you could own your product, you could own what you're putting out into the world. And MTM is what gave me the vision to believe that could happen. And I remember when I started in Chicago and I said to one of the, you know, suits, I said, you know, one of the things I want is to one day become a mogul. And the next day he was like, how dare you use that language? How dare you Say that. Yes. That's what he said to me in 1983. How dare you use it. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I wanted to be. I want to be a mogul like Mary Telling.

[A]

I don't think that he said that. Why do you.

[B]

He said it was so arrogant, and it was so. Yeah, yeah. I was, like, so full of myself to think that I could become a mogul.

[A]

Our greatest fear is not that we're inadequate. Our greatest fear is that we're powerful beyond measure.

[B]

Okay, come on. Marianne Williamson quote to me. That was so good, girl.

[A]

When I saw you had your own frozen food product.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When I saw you had your own network, it was that same thing. I said, this is next level what Oprah Winfrey is like.

[B]

Let me just tell you. Owning that show was the transition into me owning myself in so many ways. And that came about because I had nothing I wanted more in this world than being in the Color Purple.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I went away to do the Color Purple, my bosses at the time said, you know, you only have two weeks vacation. And I needed two months. And I ended up giving all of my vacation for the entire contract. If you would just let me finish this movie. I said, this is in 1985. If you just let me finish this movie, I'll give up all of my vacation. All of my vacation. And then when it came time to renew that contract, my lawyer said, you never want to be in a position where you have to give up everything in order to sacrifice to do what you really want to do. What if you owned part of the show? This was Jeff Jacobs who said this to me.

[A]

Shout out to Jeff Jacobs.

[B]

Shout out to Jeff Jacobs who said. What if you owned yourself? It means you'd have to take the risk yourself that maybe it wouldn't do as well. But you don't have to take a salary. You would get whatever the show was gonna make. This is when.

[A]

This is like advertising.

[B]

This is when we went syndicating. Yeah. When we were syndicated. And I said, sure. Cause I believed in myself. And that is the reason why I am where I am. Because I believed that ownership was the way for me. And you know what? At the time, you know, local stations couldn't even syndicate you, so they. Nobody. Nobody believed that the Oprah show was gonna be as big as it was. And the reason why I got the greatest percentage, the percentage that I did is. Cause none of those guys thought it was gonna be that successful. If they thought it was that successful, they would have never given me 50%

[A]

did you feel that sacrifice in the immediate meaning when you took. No. So it felt all the same.

[B]

It felt all the same to me. It felt like I knew that the show would be successful because it was successful in Chicago, and Chicago was, I thought, the Mecca. Yes, it represented the country, for sure. It wasn't like it was New York, east coast thinking or west coast thinking. I thought, this is America. And if Chicago loves it, Rhode island will love it. Memphis will love it. Arkansas is going to love it. Come on, Nashville's going to love it, too. Everybody's going to love it because Chicago loves it. And I could watch the faces of those women every day. And I realized that what we're saying, what we're doing here, is connecting to them in a way that what they're feeling is what I'm feeling. What they're feeling is what everybody else is feeling. And so I never believed that it would not work.

[A]

I can't wait to get into more of that with you. Cause, I mean, it's so incredible what you've been able to do. Favorite guilty pleasure.

[B]

Oh, my favorite guilty pleasure.

[A]

Guilty pleasure is

[B]

doing absolutely nothing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. When the day has gone and I say, what have I accomplished? Not one damn thing. That's my favorite guilty pleasure.

[A]

Couch potato.

[B]

Yeah. When I was like, what have I done? But no, what have I done? The perfect day for me. People will be so shocked because my friend Gayle is. I realize the older we get, I'm saying, I don't know how we've remained friends for 50 years because we're so opposite. She is right now on her way to the Obama event, and she did something last night and did something the night before.

[A]

She do be outside.

[B]

She do be outside. I love that about girl.

[A]

I love that I see her out.

[B]

I'm like, girl, whoa, my gosh. And I am. And she'll call me sometimes and say, what are you. What are you doing sitting with your thoughts? And I go, exactly. That's exactly what I'm doing. Sitting with my thoughts. So my perfect day is it's raining. There's some fog. You can hear the rain on the roof. Because I grew up in Mississippi with a tin roof, so you could hear the rain falling on the roof, you know, sounded like a thunderstorm every time it sprinkled. And so the feeling of rain on the roof is a comforting thing to me. And so having a fireplace, having a dog, and reading a book and having another book after that to read. So you have, like, a little stack. That's my favorite But I know that that's not fun for most people.

[A]

Okay, that's lovely to me, but it's

[B]

not fun for most people. And Gayle's like, good. Yeah.

[A]

She really go outside. Okay. Favorite thing money can't buy.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I would have to say, for me, it's the peace of mind and satisfaction that has come from living a life well lived. It's the peace of mind and satisfaction. You know, when I first started out, it was hard. You know, I know you've had this too. Every relative comes out of the closet. You got cousins you didn't know, and you got everybody wanting and demanding of your time and your money. And I didn't know how to say no. I didn't know how to. To manage all of that in the beginning. And I had really strong mentors. I had the best. Who were your mentors? I had Maya Angelou. I had Sidney Poitier. I had Quincy Jones.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I had Coretta Scott King. Those were my mentors. So when something would go wrong, I would call one or the other of those people and say, maya and Sydney more so than anybody else. But I would have to say Oprah. Yeah. What did you need? Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Being on the phone with Maya Angelou

[B]

sounds all the time. All the time. And I remember being on the side, and at the time, the tabloids were just wrecking me all the time. I was on the tabloids every week for either being too fat, she ate too much. She ate a whole pie. She doesn't, you know, just making up lies about me all the time. Or is she getting married? Why he won't marry her now. They split up now. So there were two stories. There were the, will she get married? Will she not get married? Why hasn't she gotten married? And overweight that they. For 20 fricking years. Yeah. Wore me out with it. And many times I would get upset about it, and I would call Maya, and Maya would say, I remember being in the bathroom. I can't even remember what it was, but toilet seat down, sitting in the toilet in the bathroom, calling Maya. And I was crying, and she was like, stop it. Stop it now. And I was like, but you don't understand what I'm saying. Stop it. Stop it now. That was her favorite phrase. And I'd say, well, why? She said, I want you to say thank you. In the middle of me crying, she said, thank you. Because whatever it is you're going through, I don't even wanna know what it is right now. I want you to know God has already put a rainbow in the cloud for you. The rainbow is coming. So the cloud that you're in right now, you just gotta wait to get to the other side where the rainbow is and say thank you. Because I know the rainbow is coming. And so that has helped me through many a thing. When you're in the middle of the cris, say, all right, I know there's another side to it. So I had. I mean, I had some of the best teachers. I had just fantastic teachers. So my favorite thing is, you know, I get a lot of. A lot of love from the world, and I get a lot of craziness from the world. Yeah. I mean, the online thing is crazy.

[A]

Well, I mean, you had. So when you were bringing up the tabloid stuff, it was making me think about online, because now that's a new tablet, Same kind of thing.

[B]

It's a new thing, but you can say anything. So everybody has the power to say anything about you. And the thing that's always been the hardest for me is people saying things that were untrue. And I mean, you know, the tabloids actually prepared me for all the untruths that I live with now online. But this is the thing. Maya used to say this to me, and I say this to everybody who's listening. And you have had some grace in your life. Maya used to say, baby, those people can't hold a candle to the light that God already has shining on your face. So look at the light that God has shining on your face and stop worrying about those people, because those people who are sitting online saying things about me that are not true, Those people who. She used to say this all the time in the tabloids. They don't even know you. They don't even know you. You're just a photograph and a story to them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She would say an avatar. Yeah. They don't know your heart. They don't know anything about you. So those people who are dragging you, ragging on you, whatever, cannot hold a candle to the light God always, always already has shining on your face. And it reminds me of, you know, one of my favorite things to do now that I got two new knees starting 2021.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

One of my favorite thing to do is to hike. One of my favorite things to do is to hike.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

New knees. Yes. Yes. New knees.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

And one of the reasons why I love hiking is because it's such a great metaphor for life. And the higher the mountain, the better the hike for me. And the reason is you don't look at how far you have to go. If you start out looking at how far you have to go, you will be thwarted. You will feel like, how am I gonna get up there? But every 10 minutes or so, every, like, couple thousand steps, turn around and look at how far you've come, and you can't believe it. Before you know it, you're halfway there. And before you know it, you're three quarters away there. Before you know it, you look back and you go, I can't believe I came all that way. And if you came all that way, you can get to the top. And the same thing is true for life. If you, wherever you are right now and you're listening to us, you listen to Lauren, Kiana, and I speak.

[A]

This is so important, what you're saying.

[B]

Yeah. If you just stop and look at how far you have already come, how you weren't even supposed to be where you are right now. Nobody. You didn't even think you could make it through some things, but you did. So take the time to stop and turn around and look. Wow.

[A]

That's in my mind. That's gratitude. The practice of gratitude.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, that is my spiritual practice.

[A]

Yes. And what are the things in the interim? You know, because I'm hearing you saying, there's always a mountain on the rainbow. But even if I'm talking to you right now and dealing with the own things that I have going on in my life or people that are listening, that is a very hard thing to always hold onto because you don't know when it's coming, but it's coming.

[B]

But faith is knowing that it is coming. This is the thing that I wish. I should teach a class. I really should. First of all, we are all ordering up our lives all the time. And you are in co creation with the main creator.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. And you are doing that, by the way. You think so anything that is happening in your life right now, that's going on in your life. If you look at There's a Wonderful line in A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. Girl, girl, you.

[A]

The reason why I read that book. It almost made me have a brain aneurysm, but I held on. Really. It changed my life when life changed when you said, what a relief it is to know that the voice inside my head is not me.

[B]

Yes. That's one of the many. Who in the hell is it? Right. Yeah.

[A]

But then you're like, well, I'm the one observing it.

[B]

Yeah. That is a Big thing.

[A]

It's huge.

[B]

Oh, you're there. You're there.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That's it. That's it.

[A]

You put me onto that.

[B]

I mean, I'm telling you, when you get that, you have, like, graduated. You have, like, graduated. So the other important thing that he said that is so relevant to whatever situation you're going through is life will give you the exact experience you need for the elevation of your consciousness, which is why we're all here. Life is gonna give you exactly what you need at any given time to grow you up. That's really what he's saying. The elevation of your conscious is just you getting, becoming who you're supposed to be. So life is gonna give you the exact experience you need. And how do you know that's experience you need? Cause it's the experience you're having right now. So whatever is going on, you just look at it and you say, okay, what you trying to teach me? What is it I'm not getting? What is it I need to know? Why does this keep happening? Why does this keep showing up wearing a different pair of pants? Why do I always end up in this situation? You're supposed to truly ask that. Not from a why is this always happening to me? But really, what am I supposed to get that I'm not getting? And how do I grow from this moment? What is it here to teach me about myself?

[A]

How do you then maintain an embodied experience in life as opposed to always coming from this meaning making thing? Because that can be its own tyrant to you. You get what I mean? Where it's like, I find myself doing that all the time, where it's like everything's meaning, everything's a lesson. But then I'm detached from the experience of what's happening to me because I'm so quick to find the lesson is

[B]

what is the real thing in it? Yeah, well, this is the thing. Sometimes you're just having a good time, okay? Because one of the reasons why the oprah show for 25 years was the number one show in spite of all the competition and all of the shows that came afterwards, I never looked at what the other people were doing because I was very much on point with what I knew I needed to do. And one of the things that changed that show was another book called Seed of the Soul by Gary Zukob that I read in 1989. And it shifted everything for me. Cause in that book he talks about intention. That no matter what you're doing in life, that there is the law of cause. And effect. Everybody who's listening to us right now, you believe in the law of karma, which is the same as the law of cause and effect. But before there's a cause, there's an intention. And that intention is going to always determine the effect. And so I sat down with my producers, and I said. I explained this principle, and I said, we're not gonna do just shows anymore. We're gonna do shows with intention, and we're gonna do shows in a way that you have to tell me at the top of the idea what the intention is. And they're like, what? What the hell? And I have to align with that intention. And if I'm not aligned with that intention, if I'm not right there, I have to find some truth in it in order to sit in this chair. Yeah, Right. So I can't just be up there talking, talking, talking about things I don't want to that have no relevance or no grounding for myself. So I just have to find one thread that I can connect to so that I can say, okay, I believe in that. I can talk about that, and people can feel my truth. And that's what changed the show. That's why we were number one for 25 years, because it was intentionally done. We talked about why do we want to do it, what do we want to get out of it, you know, and for every interview, I did that.

[A]

It's interesting when you're talking about this, because I think about what we're. What journalism is now and what it was then. I think about Barbara Walters. I think about Diane Sor. I think about the Oprah Winfrey Show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The relationship to making things comfortable and relaxed, but still pushing and having the ability to get people to speak to what is real. I feel like. I don't say that sometimes it's lost, but the relationship that our current audience has to that kind of journalism seems to have changed.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm curious of, you know, what you think that is and if you think it should come back.

[B]

Well, I think that people now are interested in a lot of surface things, I think. You know, but ultimately, this is. What I know in the soul of myself, is that people have not changed, Even though it looks like our value system and the culture has changed and the politics has changed, but people still, I think, want goodness in their lives, and people want to be guided by a set of values and principles that open their heart to doing well in the world. People want to succeed, and they want to be happy. This is what I learned from the Oprah show is that everybody wants the same thing. You want to know that you matter, and you want to be able to offer that to other people. And so even though we live in this culture where everything is quick and fast and this and tiki talky, talky, talky talka about, everybody is, you know, doing a lot of surface things. People really do want meaning in their life. They long to matter, and they long to know that whatever you're doing in life is giving you some purpose in the world. That's what I truly believe.

[A]

So many people have different experiences with you from movies, obviously, from Oprah Winfrey Show. Sometimes it's clips, and now obviously your podcast. But I'm curious, what is, for you, the definition of living your best life now? What does it look like?

[B]

Well, it looks like freedom. It looks like being able to make the choices that are based on what do you really want? Which I think is the most important question. You know, I think when you're not free, not completely free, you can't make decisions based upon what you want. You have to do what you. This is what I say to my girls who are, you know, graduating from college and starting their first jobs, and they're talking to me about free, you know, work life balance. At this point, I go, you ain't got no work life balance at 22.

[A]

That's tearing us up, by the way. We're all trying to look for the balance. It ain't there.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

It ain't there. It's tearing us up.

[B]

It's not there. It's not there. You're not supposed to have it.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You're supposed to lay it in. Lay in the work. And so I believe that for me, it's getting to this point in my life where my choices are based on that come truly from, you know, the purest part of myself. I only do what I want to do, and I've earned the right to do that because there was lots of times I had to do what I had to do. You have to do what you have to do, what you need to do until you can do what you want to do. You can't. On these kids today, a lot of people think, oh, I just want to do what I want to do. You got to work to be able to do what you want to do. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But how do you know when it's over? Because what do you. When you say free when it's over, how do you define it? And when I'm saying when it's over is what ends up happening. And I talked about this in the TED Talk is you working so hard to get free, and it's like you might be already there. So how do you know what freedom is to you and when it's time to lay back? Because I feel like that was really. I mean, my nervous system is like. She's like. My nervous system is screaming to be let free. Oh, she don't know. She don't know how to release them.

[B]

One, two, three.

[A]

Release them.

[B]

Okay. Have you been able to answer the question of what? Okay, so this is so interesting. Oh, we could talk all day about this.

[A]

Girl. Girl.

[B]

Do you know that when I was doing the Color Purple, I wrote in my journal? I've had kept a journal since.

[A]

Me, too.

[B]

Yes. So and I wrote in my journal then. My goal is to. One of the things I really want is a beautiful home surrounded by beautiful things, surrounded by a life of people who respect me and I respect and hold and regard. I wrote that in 1985 while I was sitting in a tree in Color Purple, waiting on my time to go to set. And that has been fulfilled for me in just, like, layers and layers and multitudes of ways. But I've always been clear about what I really wanted and what was gonna give me peace. Do you know the answer to that question? That's what you want to say to yourself and to everybody who's listening and watching. What do you really want? And is what you want what you want? Or is what you want what you always thought you were supposed to want?

[A]

Well, this brings me to the other thing that I wanted to ask you.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Is this what you always thought you wanted? 1.

[A]

How do you know? So this is the thing, and I ask it specifically about love. I often am. Like, I need me a statement. Now, I don't know nothing about you and Stesmond's actual relationship, but what I'm curious of is what you found. How much did it differ from what you thought you wanted?

[B]

Oh, let me just tell you, I paid a price to get there because I was a fool for many years.

[A]

Now, that's T, Boo.

[B]

I went through some man troubles in my 20s.

[A]

Okay, baby, this is Icy Palma. Yeah. I am, by every definition, a lot. My outfits are a moment. My reactions are gig. I've been called dramatic in three different group chats this week alone. And every single time I said correct. That's just who I am. And honestly, I've made peace with it. But somewhere along the way, I learned there's a difference between extra where it counts and extra where it's just showing off. And my old cleaning products were absolutely showing off and doing more to cover up than to actually clean. Girl, sit down. So I switched to seventh generation bio based cleaning power that handles the job without the theatrics. Plus no dyes, artificial fragrances, or bottles full of ingredients auditioning for a part they didn't get. It just works. And it doesn't need to announce itself while it's doing it. 7th Generation provides a powerful clean without anything extra. So if you already bring the extra to the function, make the switch today to seventh Generation. A powerful clean without anything extra. We are at the peak right now. This is it. July is the absolute top of summer. The most committed, most alive, most everything month of the entire year. The days are long, the energy is high, and everyone you love is finally available at the same time. This is the month summer delivers on everything it promised back in January when you were cold and optimistic. Okay, okay. So my friends and I found this home on Airbnb and Turks and Caicos. Perfect for a little couple's getaway. Beachfront palm trees, private, secluded. The kind of place where you look around and genuinely cannot see another soul and you think, oh, it's just us. The whole world disappeared, and all that was left was our little group on this beach. Like, we had been dropped there by the universe, specifically, somebody's situation. Chip got on the grill and did not disappoint. He was clearly prepared because he brought the sandals and everything. And moments like that, moments where everyone gathers around food that somebody actually cooked outside with the ocean right there. It was the kind of trip you stop trying to document because you're too busy enjoying it. We found that stay on Airbnb and it set the bar for every couple's trip I take for the rest of my life. This is what peak summer can feel like when the space is right. Find a home on Airbnb this summer and meet the moment. Peak summer is not waiting for you to get ready.

[B]

There was a guy whose bumper I was holding onto at one point. Literally, literally holding onto the bumper of his car.

[A]

No.

[B]

Dotson Z. Girl. I love you, Dotson Z. Dots and Z. He pulls off and I, like, fall. My knees all in the gravel and the whole thing and all the apartments looking at you, and you're like, it's all right. Yeah, I know. I've been there. I've been there. So, so, so and so. So that guy, that guy had said to me, the problem with you, baby doll, is that you think you're special. The problem with you, baby doll, is you think you're special. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I don't think I'm special. No, I don't. No, I don't. And he was leaving and had slammed the door, and I ran after him. And I'm holding onto the bumper of the Datsun. Yeah, I think I was 23, 24 then when. So I learned. I learned that thing.

[A]

What was the thing that changed? What was the thing that stopped whatever this pattern was? What changed in you?

[B]

Well, I realized that I was no different than the women that I had grown up with. And I said I would never be that way. So I grew up with my mother's first cousin, Alice. Had. Unfortunately, who's. One of my abusers actually was. Was a guy that beat her. And she. I remember he knocked her down the stairs, and she had to go to the hospital, broke one of her legs, broke an arm, and she took him back. And I always said, I will never, ever, ever be that woman. And when I was holding onto the bumper of the Datsun Z, I said, oh, I wasn't hit, but I've become that woman. I saw myself. I saw myself. I saw myself. I saw my history. I saw the history of women in my family who had allowed themselves to sacrifice their own power to men. And I said, I'm gonna turn that around. And so I started attracting to myself a different kind of person.

[A]

What actions brought that on? Once that mental shift happened, what were the things that you can remember that became different, what you were attracted to?

[B]

Okay, so I was always attracted to somebody who was, in one way or another, trying to tell me I wasn't good enough. And so when I. That's why I'm saying that anytime you think it's about the other person, that person is showing up to show you who you are. So if you're in a relationship where you've taken a lot of stuff, it's really not about that person. It's about. What is it about you that doesn't have the value for yourself that you're willing to let yourself be treated that way. It's not about him. So now I thank him. I thank him. I realized that all of the bad relationships were my best teachers. My best teachers. So if you're in a bad relationship, if you were somebody that's not loving you the way you want to be loved or seeing you the way you want to be seen, that's not on them. That's on you. That's on you. And the reason it keeps showing up wearing a different pair of pants is because God, the universe, the life force, is trying to get you to see it. And how bad does it have to get for you to see it? That's why it's happening.

[A]

This ties back to also when you just said the quote of, you know, when you were on back of the bumper, and he's saying, you know, you just think you're special. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. This makes me just think about the conversation around shame. Because I think a lot of times when we hear that as people, this concept of value or esteem, it's like, well, actually, I like myself. I like myself. I think I'm this. I think I'm that. But sometimes the shame is actually coated with this thing of, like, I like. I think I'm so awesome that I'm embarrassed by it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like you get what I mean by this.

[B]

Yeah, I do get what you mean by. Because, you know, to be with somebody who doesn't see your true value and worth and who's trying to make you feel like. I mean, I was just a little. I was a local television reporter, which is in that market. You are the big deal in that market, you know, but, you know, and people know you, and you go to the store and people know who you are. So it's like you're a little fish or a big fish in a little pond. And he was like, oh, you think you're something because you're on the news, that kind of thing. And I'm like, no, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. And so I was out to try to. In my early 20s, trying to make the other person, that person believed that I'm just like everybody else. Boom.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That. That is dangerous.

[B]

That is dangerous.

[A]

Because what's so funny is, within this same conversation, you had the situation. Clearly, there was such great growth there. Because you had the same conversation with the man, and you said, I want to be a mogul. Yeah. So you. At this point, it was like, I know I'm special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I know what I can achieve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What? How you get. I mean, that's.

[B]

How did I get to that?

[A]

Owning.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Owning that. I'm Oprah Winfrey, you know? Cause that's what people gotta get to. Because we all are special. I truly believe this.

[B]

Well, I truly believe it, too.

[A]

I truly believe this. But it's literally, like, that Marianne Williamson quote.

[B]

Well, but yes, but here's the thing. It's those years. It's the years of holding onto the bumper. Instead of feeling what a jerk he was, I was blaming myself for it. Like, what could I have done differently? And so I was like, I would say around 26, 27, I came out of it 28, I started doing my local talk show. 30, I moved to Chicago. By 30, I was solidly into this is what I want and this is what I want to achieve for myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it took me some growing to get there. And you know what if you grew up in an environment. And I say this all the time because one of the reasons why I feel so solidly grounded in life and so wise is that I have been obedient to the call of my life and I have paid attention. I'm not just willy nillying, I'm not a part of the Walking dead going through life. I'm paying attention to everything and I'm learning from every experience. And one of the reasons why I've been so gifted with blessings is cause I had experience after experience after experience after experience to learn from on the show. I wasn't just doing a show. I was absorbed into what it means to create this kind of human behavior. And how do I avoid that? I don't wanna. You know what? And I think for a lot of people who watch the show and also now the podcast is like, oh, I ain't that crazy. I can learn from other people's lessons. So I learned a lot from other people's lessons.

[A]

So has your curiosity evolved? Because like you said, 3,500 people plus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where do you find the desire or the urgent? I mean, look, human beings are so exciting and unique. So I get that. But. But what drives this next chapter of what you wanna talk about?

[B]

Because I am continually interested in the rising of the human experience of how we meet, the rising of our lives. I think that we as human beings have been given this planet. My God. You look at God's language, When are y' all gonna get it together?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Over there on Earth. So interesting. And so being able to help people to see that through, you know, storytelling, you know, on the podcast and in other areas is still something that brings me great joy, stimulation and curiosity.

[A]

Did you realize at the time, I think it's so important to ask people such as yourself, I mean, you are a cultural institution, but I always wonder, especially for any of us that are on our path, what did it feel like during the time did you actually feel like when you were doing the Oprah Winfrey Show, I'm doing something. I'm making something crazy, incredible that's gonna last a lifetime.

[B]

Or.

[A]

Or did it feel chaotic and nerve wracking and you know what I mean?

[B]

Well, it was the joy of, you know, all the stuff that happens when you have a team in place and none of us are who we are without all the people in the background. That's facts making it. That's facts making it happen. And so there was a. It was a machine that was really humanized by all of the passion and desire of producers and the entire staff to do a good job for the audience every day. And we decided around 1989, certainly I decided that I wasn't gonna just be a show. I was gonna be a force for good in the world. And I did that after doing a show with the Ku Klux Klan. I mean, I saw the Ku Klux Klan giving signals to each other. I was trying to show their vitriol and their hatred. And I realized, oh, I'm doing the opposite. I'm creating a platform for them to spread their. And I had done another show where a husband had his mistress on and his wife on, and he embarrassed his mistress in the middle of the show. Embarrassed his wife by saying, oh, you don't know she's pregnant. And I said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't. To see her face and her humiliation. I go, I'm not gonna be a part of that. So I sat down with the team and said that thing I was talking about earlier. How do we just do work that is intentional to lift up people's lives? How do you do a show every single day? No matter what it is, it's infused with some piece of light in it that people walk away with something that they feel like, oh, that was worth my time.

[A]

That's right. How can I be of service to you?

[B]

Well, that's the word. The word is service. The word is service.

[A]

Because otherwise, what are we doing? I don't want to take from you. Everybody's already taken from you, as everybody is taking everything. So if I'm going to sit up here and ask for a minute of your time. You like Denzel, I'm leaving with something. You know, you need to live with something. So I really love that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Let's talk about what it means to be a black woman in these spaces.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how you have to overcome so much based off perception, what people are expecting of you. While at the same time still being true to who you are. Baby, this is Icy Palma. Yeah. In every great production, there is the star, and then there's the thing that makes the star look good without ever asking for credit. Think about it. The right lighting paired with a perfectly timed music cue. The one friend who fixes your collar before you walk into a room. They're unsung, but yet absolutely essential. Life is already asking a lot of you. The best things are the ones that take something off your plate without you even having to ask. That's what Fruit of the Loom women's underwear is. In my daily lineup, I'm putting together looks, I'm making entrances. I'm doing the most, as always. And underneath all of it is something so comfortable and so reliable that I genuinely forget it's there. And when you're going to do the most, the last thing you need is one more decision. Fruit of the Loom is the one I already made comfortable, reliable, completely off my mental checklist. The fit doesn't shift and the fabric doesn't fight me. It just lets me do what I do. The most powerful pieces in any ensemble are the ones that elevate without competing. And when something supports you that effortlessly, you stop searching and you start trusting. It becomes the easy choice. Not because it's basic, because it's exactly right. One less thing to figure out. One decision you never have to second guess about. Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good. There are two versions of me at any given moment. There's the version that is on the way somewhere, locked in, unbothered. Do not interrupt me. I have a purpose. And then there's the version that sees a Starbucks and just turns mid stride with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version. Especially in the summer, I'm the one who orders a Tropical Butterfly Refresher. Guava and passion fruit flavors, these mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth, and a butterfly pea flower infusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen like it's the most important thing that happened all week, because it might be. One small choice can lead to a old chip. Unlock your best summer memories with the Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app. I think that's something that is so interesting because we can find ourselves learning so many different languages, so to speak. And then by the time that you get there, the very people that you were that were motivating you, to get to that place, sometimes don't even recognize you. You go from being the underdog or someone that people are rooting for to sitting on the top of the mountain, and all of a sudden you don't look the same to them.

[B]

To them, yeah, but those are the people who couldn't handle the oxygen. They couldn't handle the climb. So you cannot bring everybody along with you. And I will say this to anybody who's listening, at whatever level you are, particularly if you are the first person in your family to break through then. I remember in those early days when my salary was, you know, all over the front pages of all the tabloids and stories. And, you know, now that I look back on it, I can see how much God loves me. Because at the time, because I'd always been in television Since I was 19 years old, I was just going from one job to the. And now I'm going to do this job. And I realized that doing my own show in Chicago was a big deal, but I never expected to become. I remember telling my father when I was in the barbershop, my father had a barbershop in East Nashville one day, that actually, this is a better story. When my father was dying in 2022, we were sitting out on the porch, long life, and my father said, is it true what they say? I said, what do you mean? He goes, they say, you a billionaire.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

Is that true?

[A]

You say, you what?

[B]

A billionaire.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

That's what my father said to me. He says, is that true? This is 2022. July. July 5, 2022. And I said, yeah, it's true. He goes, well, that's something. That's really something. He goes, you never talked about being a billionaire. Now, you always talked about being a millionaire. You always said that one day you were going to be a millionaire. And I remember you running around the barbershop talking about you were going to be a millionaire. And I remember Mr. Thomas, when you became a millionaire, said, you know, Oprah always said she was going to become a millionaire. I didn't know how she was going to do it, but she did it. So now you're telling me you're a billionaire. I said, well, I never talked about being a billionaire. I didn't know there wasn't such a thing.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I didn't even know there was a such a thing. And so this idea that I always had, I have always had a belief that my life was bigger than I could even imagine, because I always thought I was like, I belong to something bigger. Than myself, which is the higher power of God. Right. And so. So I actually do believe, and did believe that through Christ, you can do all things.

[A]

You can do all things.

[B]

I really do.

[A]

You can.

[B]

I really do.

[A]

My life is a testimony to that.

[B]

So is mine.

[A]

Is yours.

[B]

So is mine. I really did believe that. Me too. So all the things that people thought a black woman should be or should do, it never occurred to me that I couldn't do what I've done. It didn't. It never occurred to me. It just never occurred to me. Never occurred to me. Because I always saw myself as a little black girl who was truly God's child. So much so that when I started school and I didn't even know who my father was at the time when I started school, I used to tell people, they say, who your dad? And I go, jesus is my daddy. And they go, this girl crazy. She up here talking about Jesus is our daddy. So I really grew up believing that I could do all things because I was God's child. And so when I walked into the newsroom and I was the only black woman there, I just assumed I was supposed to be there because God had made the way for that. It never occurred to me to feel like I didn't belong, because I knew God had created the path for me to be there. When I got the job in Baltimore and was criticized for being black, let me just tell you, I didn't realize I was doing an interview with Tracee Ellis Ross about hair. We were doing a big thing.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Okay, so why are you crying?

[A]

Because I feel that exact same way. Where even in my human moments where it's scary or you can. You know, people call it imposter syndrome, whatever. My courage has always came through because I have such a deep faith in God, I don't have any issues. Literally, the source. It's like no matter what feels. Seems strange on the outside, it has never guided or stopped or thwarted my ability to push forward. And I think the tears are also coming from. First of all, it's an overwhelming sense of recognition. And then it's like, how do. How. When people don't have that, when they don't know that, when they can't find their connection to that, I also feel grief for that. Because certain things are out of your control, but that does not mean that it can stop you. And yet we are living in a world where people feel absolutely stopped. They feel like there's not every hill is too high. There's no road they can get Past. And that really saddens me.

[B]

Well, it saddens me. But to. Well, can I say it saddens me? No, it doesn't sadden me. I'm not even sad by it anymore. You will get to the point where you won't be sad anymore about it, because you will be so grateful that you're one of the people who understands how it works. And so what I never understood when I was a kid is like people going to church, praying, praying, praying, praying, praying to God and then going home and worrying, worrying, worrying, worrying, worrying. So here, I mean, when I lived in Chicago, my kitchen faced the Lake Michigan, and the sun would come up every morning over the lake. And I would stand there drinking my tea or coffee or whatever it was at the time, and I would just watch the sun rise before heading off to work. And I think my faith is like that. I have sunrise faith. All of us have been in an airplane where it's pouring, raining on the ground, and all kinds of crazy things are happening on the ground. And then you shoot above the clouds and there the sun is there. It's always there. Yeah, well, the power of God, the power of the force of your life, which you can feel in your breath, in every breath, there is the force of life breathing with, above, around and through you. I have faith in that thing. I have faith in the thing that causes that sun to come up every morning and the thing that made that sun come up every morning. Certainly, if I am in alignment with the truth of myself and I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, I'm moving in the direction that I'm supposed to be moving, it's going to meet me where I am and it's going to grow me to the next level. That is what has happened in your life. That is what has happened in my life. And in all those years I was journaling and I was praying, I have these journals where I'm, you know, asking God to help the guy whose bumper I was holding onto. God, please make him love me. Help him to see that I'm really the woman he needs. And all that crazy. What I realize now is God was waiting on me. I'm waiting on God to do something to change him. And God is waiting on you. And so it's all about, what do you really want? And are you in alignment with why you. With your purpose? As I was going to say, the great teaching from Seed of the Soul. For me, there's a great line in there that says when your personality, you Have a great one. You have a big one. Your personality is huge. Okay? Ginormous personality comes to serve the energy of your soul. That is authentic empowerment. So that means when you are using. No matter who you are, if you are using your personality, what you. Your talents, your gifts to serve the deeper reason why you're here, then you are in alignment with purpose. And nobody can touch you. No weapon formed against you shall prosper because you are in alignment with that thing, that force that makes the sun come up every morning. You are in alignment with that thing. And so why am I gonna walk in a room and feel that? Because I'm a black woman. Anything other than I am supposed to be here.

[A]

Ugh.

[B]

Cause God is the one who paved the way for me. I did not get here by myself. I mean, listen, I live in some of the most beautiful spaces in the world, but there is not one moment that I look outside my yard and I don't see the presence of God. That got me there. I mean, I paid for it. I paid for it, but the fact that I'm in that space was a gift to me and the same thing. You're rising. I see you rising, and I see you meeting that rising for yourself. And I will tell you that your future is so bright, it burns my eyes. That's what's coming for you. That is what's coming for you. Because you are willing to be in alignment with the true purpose of your life. And you're not just out here playing. And when you stop playing. You know, Maya used to say to me all the time that, baby, one day you're gonna. Right now you're in show business, but one day you will be about your father's business. When you can align your business with your father's business.

[A]

How did you make your philosophy something that you could scale?

[B]

Oh, because that.

[A]

It's not just superficial. It's not. This is. And obviously this is no shade to somebody making a lip gloss or something like that. That's not at all. But when I think about the business of Oprah Winfrey, you found a way to create an ecosystem around things that are actually very. They're big ideas about growth, about inspiration, about who you can be, about who you can be.

[B]

It's not just. Not just who can be. It's, like, who you already are. But can you meet the rising? I mean, you've already been created to do great things and stop playing with yourself.

[A]

How did you make that a scalable business? Did it come before you? Was it.

[B]

Well, no, no. No, no, no, no. The reason. You know, it's so interesting you're saying this, because I remember in the early years, people would say, you know, the Oprah brand. The Oprah brand. And I was always offended by that. Now everybody wants their own brand. But I was offended by the idea of people calling me a brand because I thought, I'm not a brand. I'm a person. And all of this is just coming from myself. And so the reason why it's become scalable for me, because it's the truth of me. I was seeking it for myself. I was seeking it for myself. I wanted to be whole. I wanted to fulfill the mission of my calling. I wanted to honor God's dream for me. Yes. And I think creation has a dream for everyone. It's created. And my advice to people is lean into that dream and stop trying to dream it for yourself or align your dream with God's dream for you. What is that dream? What are you really here to do that's bigger than you playing around? What's bigger than your paycheck? What's bigger than your. The thing that you know, you know, has you, you know, lit up or partying or whatever? There's something bigger, deeper going on for all of us. And what is the why? What is your why?

[A]

Are there signs that people can touch on that, point towards that meaning, like, you know, when you know that you are in alignment or when you know that you are guiding?

[B]

If you tell me when you. When you. You tell me.

[A]

Well, when I've seen it in my life, what I feel like it is, is I'm following the truth. I'm not. You know, it's like I'm making my choices not based off of directly the outcome, but what feels real to me. I'm almost sometimes feeling like I'm being literally led by a force to say something, to make a choice, to make a decision. It feels like it's just coming through me as opposed to I'm trying to design it. And so sometimes it is difficult. When even I'm asked this question, question about what it means to be in alignment. I think I always come back to finding a way to be present enough first. I think I always start there. I love Pilates because of that. I know you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because it really allows you to fluctuate.

[B]

You got to get that toe on the bar. You got to get. I mean, they all got to be lying.

[A]

It's a lot of alignment.

[B]

A lot of alignment. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

And now your back is out, too. And then.

[A]

Okay. But it's good with these new names.

[B]

Okay, Fantastic.

[A]

Okay. I'm always thinking about how to know when I'm embodied and when I'm not embodied. That helps me to also figure out what's leading me, how I'm actually being in the moment. But it's almost like something that you just feel. It's the inner thing that I've always felt since I was a little girl. Like when you were talking about what your dad was saying that you were seeing in the barbershop, I was like that. As a kid. I always knew that there was something bigger than me. I wasn't sure if that was just because I grew up in a church. My dad's a deacon. Was that just that connection? Like, I'm always trying to figure out how to distill what has allowed me to become. Because the process of becoming is so

[B]

I can tell you what it is, even if you haven't articulated it for yourself. It means you listened to something beyond the voice in your head. You were the observer of the voice in your head, like we were talking about. And you were able to listen to the still, small voice that led you forward. Every decision that has brought you success and me success and anybody else who's listening has come from that space of something that's bigger than you, that has a dream for you, for lack of a better word, that has a design for you, that's waiting for you to find the flow for yourself. And the way to the flow is the truth. You can't do it if you're not in truth. You can't do it if you're abusing yourself. You can't do it if you. If you. If you. If you allow other people to be in your life to diminish you, you are punishing yourself. It is a violent act against yourself to allow other people in your life to diminish you and to not lift you and exalt you. If you don't have other people who see you for the light that you are, for the joy that you are, for the goodness that you bring, you are with the wrong people. I don't care how that shows up in your life. If it's somebody you're working with, if it's somebody you're in deep relationship with, the reason that person keeps showing up in your life is for you to make the change. You can't change them. You know, that's why the wizard of Oz is one of the greatest teachings ever.

[A]

It's excellent.

[B]

It's Excellent.

[A]

And what I love so much about the Good Witch is that she wasn't really telling Dorothy what to do. She was guiding Dorothy towards herself.

[B]

That she was making Dorothy remember? She was helping Dorothy remember? So it's Dorothy who says, I guess I learned that I look no further than my own backyard. The other great teaching of the Good Witch is when she says to the Wicked Witch of the west, go away. You have no power here. So here's the truth for all of us. You only have power in your own territory. She was saying to the Wicked Witch, you have no power because this ain't your territory. You have nothing to do here, Witch. Exactly. That's right. And the same thing for all of us. We spend so much time focused on other people's territory that you have no power over. So just take care of your own backyard, your own territory, and not worry. See that the things that are showing up in your life are showing up to help you raise your level of maturity, of growth of consciousness for yourself. That's why it's showing up. Yeah, yeah. It's not about that.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Isn't this such a great conversation?

[A]

It's such a great conversation. I really. We gotta help.

[B]

I'm with Tiki, baby. I'm with Tiki.

[A]

Yeah, baby. I'm with Oprah or Orpah. I should say my girl. Okay. I'm not gonna keep you forever, but you're gonna have me on your podcast.

[B]

I'm gonna have you on my.

[A]

Please. So that we can get into some more stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we gotta do it.

[A]

Really. I mean, I could go on forever, but I'm not gonna take all my girls time. I'll end it with a little game. Okay, so basically, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of things that you may or may not do. You can tell me. Yes. No, absolutely not. But I'm nosy, so if there's a story, you know, go ahead, give it to me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. It's. Would you ever. Okay, so, first one. Would you ever host another daily talk show?

[B]

Well, I think I am, actually. I'm doing it twice a week with a podcast. It feels. It feels like that. Cause sometimes I do it with an audience, so I love.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I love to do that. Yeah.

[B]

Daily is too much. Daily is too much. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But the medium's changed.

[B]

The medium has changed and it has evolved into. The podcast is a new way of communicating with people.

[A]

And two days gives it little time for things to catch up, you know, you need news feed.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay. Take a group vacation.

[B]

Who's in the group?

[A]

Exactly, exactly. So you would take a group vacation. But it needs to be certain folks curated.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's right. Yes. How many people, Matt?

[B]

Uh, 10.

[A]

Oh, I love that. Call me O. I'll behave. I'll behave. 10 people. That's a lot of foe.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna need two cars for all the travel and na, na, na, na. But you can do 10. Yeah, okay.

[A]

Yeah, I like that. I like that. Okay. Sharing clothes with Gayle.

[B]

No, I don't share things. Once you take something of mine, keep it.

[A]

Okay. Did you see Gayle on Caller Daddy? So funny. Talking about, you know, people thought we were gay. It didn't bother Oprah. Cause she had a man that gagged me. She's saying that nobody would be hitting on her. Cause they thought she was taking child.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. It's true. That has followed us forever and ever.

[A]

It was. It's really cool, though, to hear you guys talk about it. You know what I mean? Like, and just say how you felt.

[B]

You know, it's so interesting because for a long time Maya said, don't say anything about it because you only give it power. So we played that for a long time. Like, don't say anything. Don't say anything. Don't say anything. Now. I think, you know, Gayle goes, I don't care. I'm just gonna talk about it. So I think. And my God, if you're still thinking that, then you're an idiot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're just an idiot.

[A]

It's really relatable, though. You know? It is. Cause people always do that. Make up stories about. Come on, man.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Leave me alone. Read spoilers before finishing a book.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. You run a strict program.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I got a strict program.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, no, I can't finish it. If I've read the spoiler, then there's no reason for me to continue. I can't.

[A]

What's your favorite book of all time?

[B]

The Bluest Eye. Toni Morrison.

[A]

Amazing book.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never turned it into a movie.

[B]

No. Too hard.

[A]

Why would you. What do you mean? What do you say?

[B]

Too hard. It's just too hard. It's too hard. Yeah. Sad little black girls. You know, the story of Blue sky is the. You know, it was actually Toni Morrison's first story. And one of the things that surprised me when I had her on the show to talk about this book is that women around the world related to Pecola Breedlove, who is the main character, the little girl who went insane trying to have blue eyes. Little black girl wanting blue eyes. And the message is that everything we've been talking about here today, anytime you're trying to be somebody you're not, it's insanity. Because you were only created to be you. So you are completely out of alignment if you're trying to be something that you don't have the capacity to be. So understanding your own capacity and who you were meant to be, that's the most important thing. And you can't do that by yourself. You have to ask the power, whether you call it God or not. You have to meditate. You have to sit in gratitude. You have to say, what do you want from me? Why? You have to ask the big questions of your life in order to continue to move forward. And my journals are filled with, why am I here? Why am I here? Why am I here? Why am I really here? Am I here? I'm not just here to have a talk show. And have shoes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes. And have good shoes. What are you here to offer?

[A]

But it's not really what you're saying. Because it's a broken equation to not acknowledge the you of it all.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When you are constantly. That's why some people say, oh, you just show up. You just saw yourself. Well, who else am I gonna be?

[B]

Who else you gonna be?

[A]

You know, that's what. That's why it's like, I don't have any other choice than to be Kiki.

[B]

And it's also the reason why, you know, many times Gail is like, you're just sitting there by yourself. I go, I'm not by myself. I'm actually with myself. I'm never by myself. I'm always with myself. And I am the best company I could ever keep for myself. That's what I feel.

[A]

Did it ever get lonely?

[B]

I have never experienced loneliness, Willy. No. I don't even know what that means. I actually don't know what that means.

[A]

Well, I guess in this context, it would be not being met. You know, I think most people would maybe think, how many people can Oprah talk to?

[B]

Well, I think in my early days, I mean, those 20 crazy 20s, which were crazy for me, I think I felt lonely then. Cause I felt I needed somebody to make myself feel whole. I don't feel that anymore. So I feel like I would be one of those people who could. I mean, obviously you need connection, relationships and community. But I am happiest with myself.

[A]

I love this. Okay, just a few more. Go on a reality show. I already know the Answer to this.

[B]

You know that ain't happening.

[A]

Exactly. Read your social media comments.

[B]

No, I don't read them.

[A]

Karaoke.

[B]

No, I don't. No.

[A]

No, I don't. Period. No, I don't be 30 again.

[B]

No, I don't want to be 30 again. But I would take 44. I think life starts at 44. Woo.

[A]

Tell me why 44 was so good.

[B]

Because you come into yourself in a way that you're not. You're no longer trying to please everybody else. You come into yourself, you have them. I do have some girls now that I've mentored who are in their early 30s who've gotten to it sooner. But for me it was 44 where I locked in. Where I locked in and I could see the rising for myself. I wasn't just doing things for other people. I wasn't just creating the work to be like, oh, I have this talk show. I really was in full drive, purposeful living for myself. 44 is when it locked me.

[A]

You saying that is so interesting about the 30 year olds that you're working with. I'm curious of what you see in the difference generationally with what was allowed or what was possible for 30 something women in your time. And then when you see the 30 somethings of us.

[B]

When I share my stories from my journal or even actually have the girls looking at my journal, they say they go, golly, what kind of woman were you? And what was that? They can't even believe it. The idea of putting up with somebody who doesn't return a phone call or somebody who doesn't, you know, all these stories I have about, you know, not running my bath water because the phone might ring and so sitting by the window and waiting on the blue Datsun to show up. So pitiful, so pitiful. So pitiful. So I see that there's a level of independence and growth in my daughter girls now that I didn't have. There's a level of maturity and respect for themselves. And I would have to say I played a big role in that because for all of my girls, particularly the South African girls, they grew up in an environment where they were abandoned. And I used to teach a class at my school called Life 101. And I literally said to them, you're gonna have major problems in your relationships unless you accept, get to the point of acceptance that you have been abandoned in your life. Cause a lot of them lost their parents when they were because AIDS and you know, absolutely poverty and crime and all the other things. So you don't want to be. I said you're either going to be the kind of woman who is going through the pockets of your spouse and looking at the wallet and looking at the phone calls and who di di zee and huh, dun dun dun, do you love me enough? Or you're the kind of person who shuts all of that down and you don't let anybody in. So do the work on yourself, for yourself. That gets you to the point where you can have full acceptance of yourself so you're not blaming your relationships for where you are. And so I've seen that. I mean those girls are so. They're so good at it. They're so good at it. Much better than I was. I mean I was like, I was late, late, late.

[A]

But it's so good. Like you were saying, hold on to the bumper, baby.

[B]

I was

[A]

that imagery.

[B]

Oh my God. No, no, this imagery. Okay, you see all the people watching from their apartments. Oh my God, that was bad.

[A]

Well, I think, you know what, I'll go ahead and leave it there and I'll just say that. What a joy, what a joy to sit down with you. What a joy.

[B]

What a conversation, man.

[A]

Baby, we went here, there, there. Okay, okay,

[B]

okay. Have fun cutting that y'. All.

[A]

Okay. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. Baby. This is Keke Palmer's, so. Oh wait, I have one more thing to show you. I think this will give you a little key.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, let me pull this up. Hold on, girl. This is crazy. Ready to be gagged?

[B]

Yeah, ready to be. Please welcome a bright new young talent and the star of Akeelah and the Bee. 12 year old Keke Palmer coming out.

[A]

No, that isn't.

[B]

What year is this?

[A]

2005.

[B]

You kick summoned this morning.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You were wonderful. Look at you. Auditioned five times. Oh, I love this.

[A]

Yeah, I did. Doug never gave me a break.

[B]

Oh my God, that's so great.

[A]

I was always some little Doogie Howser. Why did I have this suit on?

[B]

I know.

[A]

Oh my gosh. I was such a serious face.

[B]

I remember this. I remember. I mean, don't we all automatically go back to what I was wearing that day?

[A]

Oh my gosh, you looked fabulous. I love this orange and this hair, this little half up and down do. I didn't expect to cry. I just went in there and did the best thing I could do and I went in there and I just started to cry when I was doing the lines and I just was crying and saying the lines and then I went and shook all the producers hands. And I got up.

[B]

Cheeke Palmer.

[A]

He got up and he.

[B]

Age 12. Actress. Wow.

[A]

Age 12.

[B]

Wow. Okay. I can't wait to talk to you.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

I can't wait to talk to you.

[A]

I cannot wait.

[B]

Okay. I did your podcast. You gotta do my podcast. Done.

[A]

Yes. You're the best girl.

[B]

Then you can see my backyard. Yes.

[A]

My girl.

[B]

O.

[A]

Oh, that was Oprah Winfrey, you guys. I just cannot believe the conversation that I was having with her. I mean, I was looking at my notes, and this is one of the rare times where I didn't even have to remember what I had to say, because the conversation was just flowing. We've been with Oprah for so long. I think sometimes we take for granted who she's been to, all of us, the aha moments she's given us, and she gave so many to me and hopefully you all right there. For someone who has helped so many people better understand themselves and their purpose, it was cool to also see how she's still discovering her own. And with the Oprah podcast, she's continuing to create space for those kinds of conversations. Thank you so much, Oprah, for being here and for showing us that even after achieving the dream, there is still discovery on the other side and gratitude for what got you there. See you guys next time. Baby, this is Keke Palmer. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer.

[B]

Yeah.