Spilling the Mama Tea with Tina Knowles

Summary

Baby, This is Keke Palmer: Episode Summary – "Spilling the Mama Tea with Tina Knowles"

Released on May 13, 2025, on Wondery’s "Baby, This is Keke Palmer," this episode features an intimate and heartfelt conversation between host Keke Palmer and renowned matriarch Tina Knowles. The episode delves deep into Tina’s personal life, her new book, motherhood, family legacy, and the profound lessons she has garnered over the years.

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode begins with Keke Palmer welcoming Tina Knowles and her family to the stage, setting a warm and celebratory tone. Keke introduces Tina as one of the greatest matriarchs of all time and highlights her role as a mother, designer, and influential figure in the industry.

Notable Quote:

• Keke Palmer (00:00): "Baby, Memorial Day weekend is all about family, food and kicking off summer."

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2. Tina Knowles Opens Up About Her New Book

Tina discusses her decision to write her book, emphasizing the therapeutic and healing process it entailed. She reveals that the book spans 1,000 pages, though she had to cut it down to 500 as per the publisher's advice. Tina shares that writing allowed her to process long-held traumas, particularly from her childhood.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (10:28): "This book was like a healing process for me."
• Tina Knowles (14:26): "I never knew how much that traumatized me."

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3. The Impact of Early Trauma

Tina recounts a traumatic incident from her teenage years when she was subjected to an unwanted pelvic exam at a hospital. This experience severely strained her relationship with her mother, leading to feelings of betrayal and shame that Tina had to confront through writing.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (12:17): "They assaulted me..."
• Tina Knowles (13:29): "It broke my heart because I heard."

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4. Navigating Racism and Preparing for Adversity

The discussion shifts to the broader context of growing up as a Black girl in America. Tina explains how her parents instilled in her and her siblings the necessary precautions to navigate a society that often didn't see them as equals.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (16:32): "Everybody in here should write a book... Cause one day we won't be here."
• Tina Knowles (17:46): "I would have left my marriage earlier if I could."

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5. Marriage, Love, and Divorce

Tina opens up about her 31-year marriage, highlighting both the joys and challenges. She discusses the complexity of deciding to leave a long-term marriage, emphasizing that leaving was a necessary step for her personal well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (22:28): "I was 59 years old before I left."
• Tina Knowles (24:42): "We built businesses together."

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6. The Transformative Power of Motherhood

Motherhood emerges as a pivotal theme. Tina shares how becoming a mother redefined her, giving her a renewed sense of purpose and determination to overcome past mistakes.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (27:34): "I'm not gonna screw it up."
• Tina Knowles (28:21): "Kelly was the biggest blessing to me."

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7. Raising Beyoncé and Solange

Tina discusses her approach to raising her illustrious daughters, Beyoncé and Solange. She emphasizes the importance of honoring their individual talents and ensuring their close bond despite differences.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (29:18): "We put them in therapy... and they have been close ever since."
• Tina Knowles (21:30): "They were all seamstresses."

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8. Honoring Her Mother, Sharon Palmer

Keke invites Tina’s mother, Sharon Palmer, to join the conversation. Together, they reflect on the profound influence Sharon has had on Tina and the family, highlighting her strength, faith, and unwavering support.

Notable Quotes:

• Sharon Palmer (31:27): "What would Beyoncé mama do?"
• Keke Palmer (34:12): "Where the world tried to hollow her out, the anchor came through."

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9. The Importance of Family History and Legacy

Tina underscores the significance of knowing one's roots and family history. She shares her fascination with genealogy and how uncovering her ancestors' stories has enriched her understanding of herself and her heritage.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (19:41): "I got obsessed with just finding out information."
• Tina Knowles (37:11): "I hope that they can learn about their great great grandmothers."

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10. Art as a Preserver of History

Tina and Keke discuss the role of art in preserving cultural and familial history. Tina expresses her passion for collecting art that tells stories and ensures that the legacy of her ancestors remains intact.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina Knowles (49:04): "Art is a way that we can keep that history going."
• Tina Knowles (49:37): "They were very strong women."

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11. Rapid-Fire Q&A Session

The episode includes a fun and engaging rapid-fire segment where Tina answers quick questions about her personal preferences and experiences, providing listeners with a lighter peek into her personality.

Notable Highlights:

• Favorite Comfort Food: "Soul food. Mac and cheese, sweet potato combo, even spaghetti and catfish."
• Favorite Movie: "Cooley High" – Tina (51:43) recounts watching it 27 times.
• Best Birthday Ever: Celebrating with family in the Bahamas, enjoying the beach and good company.

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12. Closing Tributes and Final Thoughts

As the episode draws to a close, Keke and Tina share heartfelt tributes to Tina’s mother, Sharon Palmer, celebrating her as the cornerstone of their family. Tina reflects on the enduring love and lessons passed down through generations.

Notable Quotes:

• Keke Palmer (34:12): "Everything you see in me is from her."
• Tina Knowles (37:08): "What do you hope that your daughters and your granddaughters take from this book?" – "They'll have pride in their history."

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Conclusion

"Spilling the Mama Tea with Tina Knowles" offers an unfiltered glimpse into the life of a woman who has navigated personal traumas, upheld family legacies, and nurtured some of the most influential talents in the entertainment industry. Through candid conversations, Tina imparts wisdom on resilience, the importance of family, and the power of self-awareness, making this episode a deeply inspiring listen for all.

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Notable Timestamped Quotes for Reference:

• Tina Knowles (10:28): Discussing writing her book as a healing process.
• Tina Knowles (14:26): Revealing the impact of childhood trauma.
• Tina Knowles (22:28): Sharing the decision to leave her marriage at 59.
• Tina Knowles (29:18): Highlighting the blessing of raising Kelly Rowland.
• Sharon Palmer (31:27): Offering advice with "What would Beyoncé mama do?"
• Tina Knowles (49:04): Emphasizing art's role in preserving history.

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This summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview while highlighting pivotal moments and insightful discussions.

Transcript

[Kiki Palmer]

This episode is presented in partnership with Airbnb. Baby, Memorial Day weekend is all about family, food and kicking off summer. And with Airbnb, you can celebrate in one of the most loved homes in America. All right, y' all, let's dive in. What was it like to finally open up and decide to share so many personal things?

[Tina Knowles]

I started off being very careful about what I put in it, and the next thing you know, it just came out and everything was there, but I had to take out of there. Cause I would have got in a lot of trouble. You know, A lot of those days.

[Kiki Palmer]

Were much happier than the days that I had when I started making my own money.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, what you started when you were five, nine.

[Kiki Palmer]

I had to get to work soon because I was poor. Talking about your marriage and then leaving?

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

What was the moment that told you it was time to go?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, there were many moments that told me it was time to go. The day that I had a baby, I said to my baby, and this is the honest of our truth, I said I screwed up a bunch of stuff, but I'm not gonna screw this up. I'm gonna get this right. I'm not gonna screw it up. And I didn't, you know, I mean, I did not. I made mistakes.

[Kiki Palmer]

You definitely did not. No matter what we're doing in the car, just chilling pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, sex, science, hovering it all, especially the bag of money. Dollars fall. No matter what it is, we will make it make sense.

[Tina Knowles]

Please welcome the multi talented Ms. Kiki Palmer.

[Kiki Palmer]

What a night. Thank you, baby. This is Kiki Palma. Yeah, you guys, I am so excited to be here tonight, celebrating one of the greatest matriarchs of all time. We all know Ms. Tina Knowles. And it's also so great to be celebrating mothers in general tonight. And even if you don't have kids of your own, you probably a mama to many. Y' all know what I mean? I'm so glad to be here. I'm a proud mother of a two year old little boy named Lee Otis. And also I'm joined tonight with my mom, who's somewhere in the audience, Ms. Sharon Palmer. The icon, the hero. My girl. Baby, this is. Please join me in applauding and welcoming to the stage Miss Tina Knowles. Mama T, you look gorgeous.

[Tina Knowles]

Thank you.

[Kiki Palmer]

And you guys have been going viral. Oh, I mean, Cowboy Carter's happening. I seen you guys all on stage, all the generations, from you to Vee to Roomy and Blue. I'm roomy, my sister's blue. It took me way back to when we were kids.

[Tina Knowles]

Really?

[Kiki Palmer]

How's it been going and how's everything feeling? It's a lot happening.

[Tina Knowles]

It's been a lot, but it's been a labor of love. I mean, I've been having the best time, and I feel so blessed to be here with you guys tonight to talk about the book. And people have told me how much they liked the book. It. It's surreal for me.

[Kiki Palmer]

And I know it must be so different because, like you were saying, you've done the girl's hair. A lot of times you're doing things behind the scenes. People may not be aware of all the things you're doing, but now you're front and center. How new and good or interesting has that experience been for you?

[Tina Knowles]

It's been interesting. And, you know, for so long, I intentionally was behind the scenes, and I was very happy with that, and I'm still happy with that. But I don't mind people knowing that I've contributed a lot, that I've accomplished a lot in my life, because I think I needed that. And it's unfortunate that I had to get to be older before I realized that I've had a really interesting full life and that it's okay to feel good about that and to feel good about yourself. Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

And honestly, you keep us going online, you feel like a mama to all of us. But we know that's not new because most people feel like you're their second mom. Someone who also feels that way is here with us tonight, and I'd love to bring her out. Ms. Jennifer Hudson.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

Come on out here, Jennifer. You look lovely. Now, Jennifer, I know you and Miss Tina y' all go way back to Dreamgirls and happened to really bond on set together. Tell me a little bit about that experience. Wow.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Well, first of all, it was a dream to be in her presence and obviously meet her girls and just to have that experience. But it was also a comfort because it had a familiarity to it. For me, feeling that motherhood that came through you, that made me feel that much more welcome walking into such a journey. You know what I mean?

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah. Yeah. Now, Jennifer, there's a song, a special song that Mama T loves you to sing. It's called Impossible Dream. Tell me why that song, like, how did that become a song that she loved hearing you sing?

[Jennifer Hudson]

I don't know. Let's ask her.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, you know why? Because I saw Jennifer sing it on the Voice. You saw. I mean, this girl just got up out of her seat and Just started singing the song, and I just had these tears just coming down my eyes because, you know, to dream the impossible dream.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Yes, ma' am.

[Tina Knowles]

For me to be sitting here right now is an impossible dream. I'm a poor little black girl from Galveston, Texas. And that, you know, was told a lot that I wasn't gonna be anything. And so that song just resonated with me.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

Wow.

[Tina Knowles]

I just wanted to ask her because I was on her show.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Thank you for coming to my show, by the way.

[Tina Knowles]

Went down.

[Jennifer Hudson]

How did it happen?

[Tina Knowles]

The tunnel.

[Jennifer Hudson]

What's the spirit tunnel?

[Tina Knowles]

Spirit tunnel.

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, we love that.

[Tina Knowles]

And I just felt, even though I was offbeat, they dogged me on.

[Jennifer Hudson]

It's your moment, though. It's your moment. You living how you want to live your best life.

[Tina Knowles]

Is Ms. Tina on Ms. Tina's beat. But I had so much fun there.

[Jennifer Hudson]

That's what it's about.

[Tina Knowles]

And we shared a little bit about, you know, I couldn't really talk about the book then, but what I did share with you is that we both lost our moms very young. Really young to lose your mom. And I just wanted to show a picture of your mom.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Aw.

[Tina Knowles]

Thank you. Look how beautiful.

[Kiki Palmer]

Thank you.

[Tina Knowles]

And you know what is a matriarch to you?

[Jennifer Hudson]

A leader. Everything that you represent. I. Oddly, you bring up my mother, which gets me emotional, obviously. But you never know how much your mother love you until you have a child to love.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Jennifer Hudson]

And I think a lot of us can relate to that.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Jennifer Hudson]

And it takes me back. What taught me that. As a young girl, my mother used to rock me on her knee and scratch my back and tirelessly just do it. Then I had a son, and I'm rubbing him the same way on the same knee, and I'm like, jesus, I'm tired. And in that moment in time, I was like, you never know how much your mother loved you until you have a child to love.

[Tina Knowles]

That's true.

[Jennifer Hudson]

But also, you recognize just what motherhood really is through your mother, you know, and I see that. I see my mother in you, the way you mother your children, the way you've mothered all of us through the industry. Even just watching from afar, you know, it's a certain type of comfort, a certain type of love that only a mother can give. And you reflect that so beautifully. So, I mean, I see the matriarching. You, and I represent the matriarchs in my family, as we call it, the mothership. Okay.

[Tina Knowles]

The mothership.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Yes, the mothership, baby. So to be able here to represent the beautiful, powerful women that I come from in my family. And then to sit here with such powerful women sitting here and in the audience.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's right.

[Jennifer Hudson]

You know, it's amazing that you would create a book to instill that in so many more mothers and women to come. So thank you for that and congratulations on your success, Jennifer.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yes, to all of that. That was amazing.

[Jennifer Hudson]

It's from the heart. You are truly loved in, in so many ways. Not only did you bless us with your beautiful children and their gifts, but the way you are, you as a woman, as a mother, as a black woman, as a success in your own right, you know, it doesn't go unnoticed and unseen. And I'm here with pure heart and as I feel we all are, to honor you because you have blessed us all with your legacy.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yes, that's right.

[Tina Knowles]

I gave you a hug.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's right. She ate that.

[Tina Knowles]

For real.

[Jennifer Hudson]

You are truly loved. And I do mean that from the heart. And everything comes from the heart. And, you know, in our family, they taught us to honor those that has blessed us and led us. And when you call mother, I answer. I said, what you need me to do?

[Kiki Palmer]

I am there.

[Tina Knowles]

And there. I didn't hesitate. You know, she didn't even really check her schedule.

[Jennifer Hudson]

No.

[Tina Knowles]

She was like, I'm there.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Okay. And also, I would say, like, I think back through the years. Like, it's been many times. We've been at several events, and you always have made a place at the table for me. And again, it does not go unnoticed. So thank you.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, thank you. Thank you.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's what a matriarch does. It creates a community that protects everybody within it.

[Tina Knowles]

That's right.

[Kiki Palmer]

Jennifer Hudson.

[Tina Knowles]

Dennett Hudson.

[Kiki Palmer]

What a wonderful way to jump into this evening. Mama T. Mama T. We're so excited for this book. I want to just start with this moment that we're in. You've lived a big, beautiful, complex life, and now you've written it down. What was it like to finally open up and decide to share so many personal things?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, I decided that I would write everything and share everything on the pages, but not to go back and edit it and take things out. Because it became such a healing process for me. And it was good to write about things and to connect the dots about why I feel the way I do about so many things. And mainly about the trauma, because I didn't even realize I had this trauma in my body and in my soul. Because, you know, when you grow up poor and it's a challenge every day. You just keep it moving.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's right.

[Tina Knowles]

You know, and you don't really take time to process how things affected you in the long run. So this book was like a healing process for me. So I started off being very careful about what I put in it, and the next thing you know, it just came out and everything was there. Some of it I had to take out of there. Cause I would have gotten a lot of trouble. But you know, about my own life, you know, and my sisters and brothers, because they were like, girl, don't get carried away. So, you know, I had to take some things out. But overall, it was just such a healing process. And this book actually was 1,000 pages. And the publishing company said, Ms. Tina, ain't nobody gonna read a thousand page book. You gotta take 500 pages out. So there is a whole nother book that I didn't get to put in.

[Kiki Palmer]

Y' all know what that means?

[Jennifer Hudson]

Act 2.

[Kiki Palmer]

What? Amaziar, we ready for another Act 2 at Act 2. I would say, what did you learn about yourself? But I think what's so interesting about what you said, when you're going back to things, it's not so much what you learned, it's what you remembered.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

What did you remember about you that maybe was re uncovered underneath that trauma?

[Tina Knowles]

I don't know how many of you have gotten to read the book, but there is a. There is a part in there that I had never talked about to anyone other than my sister. And some years ago, I was in an interview and I just got really emotional and I told it in this interview. And Yvette Noel Shore, my publicist, she was like. She was like, Ms. Tina, you know how she is, like, excuse me, but I think you should save that for your book. And I was like, I'm never doing a book. So. But I asked the young lady not to share it. And bless her heart, she never did. But I had an incident where I went to a hospital and I was 14 years old and I was so sick. And they kept asking me, well, can you be pregnant? Because I was throwing up and had nausea. And I was like, no, I'm only 14. And it was almost impossible for these people to believe that this 14 year old black girl came in there and that I wasn't having sex. And they did a pelvic exam on me. They did not ask my parents permission. I didn't even know what they were doing. I had no idea.

[Kiki Palmer]

They assaulted you?

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, they assaulted me. And I remember going home and I Talk about this in the book. My dad took me. Cause my mom was really sick. And when we got home, I heard my mother saying they took Teenie in and they did this exam on her. And she started bleeding. And my mom said, oh, well, you think she was pregnant? And I remember it broke my heart. It broke my heart because I heard. Overheard it. And my dad said, hell, no. In his Creole accident. And so I just felt like my mother didn't trust me. She thought the worst of me. But it was a very traumatic thing. So I called my sister and I told her what my mom said. And I said, I hate her. I just cannot stand her. And, you know, me and my mother were super close. And then I got to be a teenager. And that broke something in us when I overheard her saying that. So anyway, the point I'm making is that I never knew how much that traumatized me.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yes.

[Tina Knowles]

So in writing about it, I just started crying. And I just had this whole sick feeling in my stomach. And I was like, I never knew that. I could feel it in my body. And we hold on to trauma. And, you know, I really would like to share with everyone that it's not worth it. Like, you gotta talk about those things that happen to you. Because for me, I took on the shame of it. I took on the shame. I didn't do anything wrong. But for so long, I wouldn't tell anybody about it because I had shame. And I think the day that I was talking to this girl, I got real comfortable and forgot who I was talking to. Cause I didn't know her. What you doing? I mean, I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but in interviews, some people make you so comfortable. And you start just running off at the mouth. And I was like, what did you do?

[Kiki Palmer]

She put the voodoo. But you know what it is? Sometimes we just want to be witnessed.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

In those quiet moments where we experience something that we can't name. It feels shameful, or there's trauma, or there's words unspoken. We feel like, damn, I've disappeared. I have not been witnessed. So something about that moment, that interview that you ended up sharing in this book, which I'm so grateful because I'm sure so many people have similar situations. You know, we deserve to be witnessed. For somebody to see us in all of our experiences.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

But that makes me want to think about a moment that you said as well. Because I think so much of this context is important in that kind of experience. You wrote this in the book. This is a Quote, on these trips, my mother would remind us of all the limits placed on us. The in town beach, the white part, was considered the real beach and how we weren't to step a toe on it. How did your mother and your family prepare you for things like you just experienced, to move through the world, a world that didn't really want to see you as equal? Because that's something I think all black mothers specifically have to. Or even white mothers with black children have to have the brave and the courage, you know, have to have the courage to have that conversation.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

How did your parents guide you through that reality that you were gonna experience as a black woman in America?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, they, you know, warned us all the time. I think their thing was just the fear. The fear of, you know, my brothers going past the black beach onto the white beach just because they were riding their bikes and they lost track of where they were and being shot up and called the N word by some young guys that shot them in the head with BB guns. You know, it's like, so that my mom developed so much fear. She already had fear from her trauma, but she developed a lot of fear. So every day we heard, stop running your mouth. You got a big mouth. It's gonna get you in trouble. Just get home, you know, just shut up and get home, and we'll deal with it later. And so they prepared us as every. I think every black mother has to prepare her child. When my grandson leaves, I say the same thing to him. Hated my mom saying that. But I say to him all the time, if you get stopped, put your hands on the steering wheel. Be very polite, say yes. Yes, you know, and make it home, and then we'll deal with it. And I would never think that I'd be saying the same thing that my mother said to us all the time, but I do.

[Kiki Palmer]

One second. Mama T, they're calling you backstage. Y' all need her now?

[Tina Knowles]

Me?

[Kiki Palmer]

During the middle of the.

[Tina Knowles]

What's wrong?

[Kiki Palmer]

Well, come on. I'm gonna take you. Come on, Mama T. Oh, y' all wanna. Oh, I know what they want. This it. My call is this it.

[Tina Knowles]

Guys was gonna stick out.

[Kiki Palmer]

Well, they was acting like it was a whole murder show. Hell is going on back there. I thought it was serious. I saw the teleprompter, started typing. We need something. The hell, y' all. Nikki.

[Tina Knowles]

They, like, they went in for the. And now, like, they're about to have a wardrobe malfunction.

[Kiki Palmer]

Glad that's over. They was gonna give me a heart attack. So back to the book.

[Tina Knowles]

Okay.

[Kiki Palmer]

So, you know, the name is so perfect, the matriarch. But it means so much, many different things to all of us. What does it mean to you, and why was that what you wanted to title the book?

[Tina Knowles]

It was a working title at first, and then as I got into the book, more and more, I was like, wow, this is so perfect because it's about generations of matriarchs. So it's. And I wanted that to be the message to young women, that they would take this and the lessons in that book and carry them on for their families.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah. I mean, speaking of that, you say in the book a lot that a lot of people don't know their family story or their family history, and you've made it a mission to know yours and obviously show the importance of that through this book. Why do you feel like that's a part of your mission of what you want to do? I mean, I know I can have an idea, but I want to know from you why.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, because I got very interested many, many years ago in my family, and where the name, the origin of Beyonce, which was originally Boyance. And I went on Ancestry.com and the first time I found my great grandfather's name on a manifest, I went off like. I was just. I got obsessed with just finding out information, and I was telling everybody else about it. So I started down that journey a long time ago, and then all this work that I put in, someone sent me an article that a genealogist did, and it was on my grandmothers, my great grandmothers, who were both enslaved, and they managed to keep their kids together, which was huge for back then, and their kids became free. So it just made me want to dig deeper to find out my lineage.

[Kiki Palmer]

I'm telling you, the Ancestry.com will have you hooked. I don't know if any of you all have done it, but I went so back. I saw the slave master, too. It will go there, though. But it does get you excited. It does. It gets you excited because you learn that some of you see a nose or an eye or something about what they did for a living, that's like, oh, my gosh, this is. This is in my blood. You know what I mean? So it's a very cool journey. And I think it's important now when so many of us are trying to understand where we want to go, it's important to understand where we've been and where you came from and where we.

[Tina Knowles]

Came from and why you do the things you do, because there are a lot of Things that I learned about my great grandmothers that. Well, for one thing, that they sold. They all were seamstresses. So I got it naturally, you know, and I passed it on to my kids. And that.

[Kiki Palmer]

Wow.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, that was interesting. And that they were very strong women. Even though, you know, my mom was not outspoken, she was kind of passive when I was younger, I was like, she's way too passive. Like, I don't want to be like that. But behind the scenes, she was powerful and she was working her. She was doing her thing to protect us in her way. Not the way that I thought because, you know, I'm kind of loud and I turn into a beast. But she was like, laid back. But she got the same result.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yes.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

You're so honest about so much in this book. One of the things that I think was also really important to me was talking about your marriage, about love, the pain, staying and then leaving.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

What was the moment for you? And I'm sure it's probably multiple moments, but that you can think of that told you it was time to go.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, well, there were many moments that told me it was time to go.

[Kiki Palmer]

Baby, this is Icy Palma. Yeah. Memorial Day is right around the corner. And there is nothing more special than gathering with the whole family together to honor this important holiday. And, baby, I found the perfect way to celebrate. Booking an incredible Airbnb by a lake and throwing something on the grill. So y' all remember my winter ski chalet up in Big Bear? But the gag is this spot is a year round paradise. I mean, you're waking up to gorgeous lakeside views, breathing in crisp mountain air, all while the smell of barbecue floats up from the deck. That's the kind of magic I'm talking about. The space was everything. We had a massive deck where the grill master could show off their grilling skills, all while the rest of us played cards and splashed in the lake and the game room. Your girl might be a movie star, but everyone can catch these hands when it comes to Ms. Pac Man. Okay. What makes Airbnb so special is how it brings families together. All with more space for the fam to spread out privacy when you need it. Because, you know, sometimes the Palmers need a minute. And locations that hotels could never match. The Memorial Day that's coming up is time to create the precious family memories and moments in a space that feels like home. Whether it's a lakeside retreat like my Big Bear spot or any of Airbnb's most, these are the places where memories are made. What was the moment for you. And I'm sure there's probably multiple moments that told you it was time to go.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, well, there were many moments that told me it was time to go. And I thought. I listened. But, you know, I wound up back in the same situation for many reasons, because, you know, I think I'm very clear in the book about. Because that's a question everybody asks. You know, Oprah was the first to do a podcast with me. She was like, girl, how many times did you go back and why. And I said, because all of that 30 years, 31 years of marriage was not all pain.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah.

[Tina Knowles]

Some of it was amazing. And we built. Yeah, it was. We built, you know, a lot of things together. We had these wonderful kids. We built businesses together. And, you know, I never questioned whether my husband had a problem. He just had an issue that was something else going on.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

He couldn't control himself.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah. But I never questioned whether he loved me or my kids and that he would protect me. And I hadn't had anybody to protect me in my life the way I thought I should be protected. So there were many, many reasons, but I finally just had enough. And I had warned him that if anything happened, you know, that I even thought that I was leaving. And so I was 59 years old before I left.

[Kiki Palmer]

And, I mean, I got a pause there, too, because, I mean, a lot of people say, just stick it out. Let's applaud. Yeah, let's do that. A lot of people will say, well, you know, just, you know, you guys are older, you know, let it go. You know, what made you say there's. I have more to live for than the same old song? Because some people have a hard time with that. And they're 30.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

Y' all know.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah. No, but it's true. I mean, you know, it's tough.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah, it's tough to turn the page on the situationship, the new thing that ain't going nowhere, the old thing that's never let go.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

We have so many storylines that make us think we should stay somewhere we don't have to, and it's so hard to think that there's another chapter or let alone another book. How did you know that?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, I mean, I was 59 years old, so it took me a long time to learn that. And, you know, when I finally did get a divorce, I still was sad, and I still felt like a failure. I'm from a, you know, a good old Catholic family that stayed together no matter what. And, you know, my parents went through A lot of things. But they stayed together and they grew old together, and that was always my dream. And I also had, you know, my children, and they were a big. The day I had kids, they became my first priority in life. And I wanted my kids to have their father. I really did. That was so important to me for them to not come from a broken home. So, you know, that had a lot to do with it.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah, I totally, totally understand. Let's talk about motherhood. Cause motherhood changed me. It's the best thing that happened in my entire life. I don't even know how I was living before my baby came. Oh, seriously, what do you remember about becoming a mom for the first time? How did that moment change you? Was it, you know, was it immediate? Was it after the first week with the baby home? Like, what were you thinking?

[Tina Knowles]

No, I'm telling you. When I had the day that I had a baby, I said to my baby, and this is the honest of our truth, I said I screwed up a bunch of stuff, but I'm not gonna screw this up. I'm gonna get this right. I'm not gonna screw it up. And I didn't. You know, I mean, I didn't. I made mistakes.

[Kiki Palmer]

You definitely did not.

[Sharon Palmer]

Oh.

[Kiki Palmer]

And then you have Kelly Rowland, too. Who? We. I mean, come on, Kelly. That's my girl. She calls you mom, too.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

I mean, how did that relationship blossom? I know you've known. I mean, since she was a little bitty baby girl. But what does it mean, you know, to be her mother, too?

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, well, it's the best. Kelly was the biggest blessing to me. Cause she came to live with us when she was, like, 11, almost 12 years old, and. And, you know, she was in a singing group, and her mom couldn't get her back and forth, and she used to stay with us all the time, but she was just, like, just what we needed in our lives. Beyonce needed a companion, and they were just so tight from day one. Like, they just hit it off. I don't ever remember the two of them ever having an argument. Now, Solange and Kelly used to go at it, but Beyonce and Kelly are soul mates as friends.

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. Well, Aquarius and Virgo. It's a match, baby. Yes, it's a match. Speaking of Beyonce and Solange, two amazingly gifted daughters. Wildly different. How did you raise them? With the intention of, you know, honoring the difference. Especially with, you know, Beyonce having so much popularity so early on.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, you know, Beyonce, by the time she was, like, 10 or 11, was in a singing group. And Solange was. They're five years apart, so it was a big gap between them. And I saw a division coming between them because the group was always at our house, and they would say, get out of here, Solange. Cause Solange would be trying to run things, and, you know, she'd be teaching choreography, and they'd be like, we don't need your help, Solange. And I just noticed that all of a sudden, Beyonce wasn't protecting her because they were, like, super close.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah.

[Tina Knowles]

Up until that point. And I was like, you letting people dog your sister out, like, that's not cool. So we talk about it, and I actually put them in therapy way back when, which, you know, wasn't.

[Kiki Palmer]

Especially in our thing, especially in the community. It's not spoken about. It's not talked about. You know, that's right.

[Tina Knowles]

And my. And my family said, you know, you're going to make those girls crazy because you're taking them to see a therapist. But it was the best thing I could have ever done for my kids because they. Yeah, they have been close ever since.

[Kiki Palmer]

It's very true. And it's so amazing to hear you talk about that foresight that you had, because it was the same thing with me and my family. You know, I'm going on a road with my mom. We're going everywhere, and we're coming back. And I'm having such a different experience because I'm traveling all out around the world, and my siblings aren't having that same experience.

[Tina Knowles]

Right.

[Kiki Palmer]

And so it comes a point where the parent had to figure it out. And so my parents would do everything they can so we could be all together. And then when I got about 17, I started going to therapy, and then we started going to family therapy.

[Tina Knowles]

I love it.

[Kiki Palmer]

It really changed our lives. It really did.

[Tina Knowles]

Cause it helps you to balance and understand things. Cause when you're 10 and somebody is 5, look at Sharon, girl. Speaking of, I want. Can I bring your mom out?

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. Yes, you can bring her.

[Tina Knowles]

Sharon, can you come out?

[Kiki Palmer]

Yes, Mommy. Oh, my gosh, y' all. That's my.

[Tina Knowles]

Thank you for coming on.

[Sharon Palmer]

Ooh, this is scary.

[Tina Knowles]

These lights, right?

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

I would love to ask you, mom, since you're up here. I mean, you guys have a shared experience of having children in this industry, but also being the matriarchs of your family. I know you read the book or you're listening to the audiobook.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yes, I am.

[Tina Knowles]

You're the baby. I'm the baby.

[Sharon Palmer]

I'm the baby of seven.

[Tina Knowles]

How are you? I'm the baby of seven.

[Kiki Palmer]

Exactly. Yes.

[Sharon Palmer]

I'm loving your book.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, thank you.

[Sharon Palmer]

I mean, you know, I just watched this woman for years, and a lot of times when I needed advice, and I, you know, I say, what would Beyonce mama do?

[Tina Knowles]

Aw. Okay.

[Sharon Palmer]

And I remember we're from Illinois, a small town outside of Chicago. And I remember driving in the car and hearing Destiny's Child is coming to the area. And I just remember just feeling like this young woman works so hard, and she's everywhere. And I wanted that for Kiki. You know, I didn't want the fame. I just wanted her. She liked to sing, she liked to dance, and I wanted to do it the right way.

[Tina Knowles]

That's right.

[Sharon Palmer]

Now you said you want to do it the right way.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Sharon Palmer]

And when I had a child.

[Kiki Palmer]

She.

[Sharon Palmer]

Really made me love because Keke was the type of person that was unconditional, like, she would. I was standoffish, like you say your daddy was. He was there and everything, but he didn't show a lot of affection. That was me. I didn't show a lot of affection. But, God, Kiki came, and every second, she would hug my neck, and we would be in church, and she would say, I love you, mama. And so I couldn't run away from her.

[Tina Knowles]

You had to give that love back. Wait, wait.

[Sharon Palmer]

But you all know she's infectious, right?

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, she is.

[Sharon Palmer]

And I couldn't run away, but I just am, so. I'm loving your book, and you've been such an inspiration, not only to me, but to all the mothers that are in this business. The class, the grace, how you conduct yourself, your family. It is such a joy to watch and to have that as a blueprint.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's right.

[Sharon Palmer]

I'm just so thankful. Thank you.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, thank you. I just want to hear you tell your mother what she means to you.

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, my gosh, Mommy. I'm so happy that you're here with me. Before we came up on stage, I was saying to my mom, I'm so happy we get to have these experiences together, to encourage and be inspired and to keep doing what it is we're doing. Yes. You know, me and my mom coming from Illinois, it was very much like, thick as steam. We was playing good cop, bad cop. She set the script, and I performed and pretend I was like a kid, but really I was old. And all I can say, mom, is. It's like this. Everything y' all see in me is from her. And where the world tried to hollow her out, the anchor came through.

[Tina Knowles]

I know that. Yes. Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

And you and everything you are and everything you've been will forever be remembered. You are always the matriarch of our family. Mommy, I love you so much. Thank you.

[Sharon Palmer]

Thank you, thank you.

[Kiki Palmer]

You're the best.

[Tina Knowles]

The world love you. Thank you.

[Sharon Palmer]

Thank you, guys.

[Kiki Palmer]

At Hotels.com we know some travelers crave an ocean breeze. Others don't want to deal with sand. And oftentimes, those two people end up together. Compare properties side by side to find yourself poolside, oceanside, and still in a relationship. Find your perfect somewhere with hotels.com this episode is brought to you by Saks. Spring has sprung. Okay. The fashion is fashioning, and it is time to shed those winter layers like a butterfly coming out of its cocoon. Just like that, Saks Fifth Avenue lands on Amazon just in time to trade in those heavy coats for something a little more temperature raising. From stunning Giambattista Valley pieces to fierce Etro prints, every single dress, pump, clutch is ready to help you bloom into spring. Whether you need the perfect flowy dress for the spring weddings or some casual cool pieces for your weekend brunches or a new statement bag to elevate your whole transition wardrobe, it is all right there. Saks on Amazon. From women's and men's fashion to accessories that'll make your whole outfit pop, Saks is serving up everything you need, powered by the easy, seamless and personalized Amazon platform. Now, y' all know I love putting some ish on, even when I'm in my businesswoman bag. This spring, I personally got my eye on some statement pieces that can instantly elevate even the most consistent conservative of looks. Maybe it's a classy boucle skirt suit paired with some sickening Dolce and Gabbana sequin platform pumps. Or a breathtaking printed silk sheath from Etro with some over the top Stella McCartney shades. Baby, I'm trying to give springtime she o glamour. And Saks on Amazon has got me covered. Get the Saks designer brands you love delivered just like that, new on Amazon. That was so nice, Mama T. Thank you so much for giving me that moment to honor my mother. I just feel like that's for us to be able to have those moments.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

We only get one mama.

[Tina Knowles]

That's right.

[Kiki Palmer]

What do you hope that your daughters and your granddaughters take from this book?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, I hope that they can learn about their great great grandmothers because I never met my grandmother and my kids never met my mother. So I think they'll learn about Agnes and her mother and how strong and resilient these women were, and to have a lot of pride in that. It's a lot of history in there about Louisiana and Galveston and the different places. And so I think that they'll appreciate having that little piece of history about their own family. That's what I'm hoping it will inspire other people to do, too. Everybody in here should write a book. Not the publications, not for publication, just to pass on to your. The next generation. Cause one day we won't be here.

[Kiki Palmer]

That is so important. I love how you said that, because that's the best way for us to remember each other.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

Speaking of remembering each other, I want to talk about Johnny. You and Johnny. That photo of you all from Renaissance is so iconic. You know, how did it come to be chosen, you know, and what did it mean to see that as a symbol of black love, family, and pride?

[Tina Knowles]

You know, Renaissance was inspired by Johnny because he loved house music. He turned my kids onto it. He was my favorite person in the whole entire world with my closest friend, and he taught the girls about that music. So when Beyonce did Renaissance, she called me, and I was actually getting ready to do a podcast, and she said, I need a picture. And I said, oh, God, gotta go through these big buckets of. And I went in there, and at the top was this picture. So Johnny just gave me that picture. Cause out of all, I mean, it's hundreds of pictures. And that's just like him. Because he was probably like, mary, I'm gonna leave this picture here. Make sure I look good. That was Johnny.

[Kiki Palmer]

I mean, you write about the beauty and joy of black queer identity through Johnny's story. How did his freedom help shape your understanding of what it means to live authentically?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, you know, that's what I say about him when people ask me, well, why did you like him so much? The biggest part of it was that he was so free. Cause think about. Johnny was born in 1950, and I was born in 54. And he lived authentically like himself. And he's being silly on there, but he lived out loud from, like, I remember, you know, he's like nine, and I'm five, And, you know, the little old bitties in the neighborhood, they're saying little negative stuff. And he's like. He would just put on a show for him, and I would too. And he was just defiant when people judged him. And my family didn't judge him, so it made him so comfortable with who he was, and I just thank God for that. Because I had no idea that other people were treating, you know, human beings a certain way. Yeah, he didn't get that. You know, I had all these macho brothers that played sports. And, you know, they. I talk about in the book where they decided they were gonna make him play basketball. And then at the end, they said, well, Johnny can make our uniforms, but he's not gonna play basketball.

[Kiki Palmer]

They said, get your designing, boo. Yes, I do wanna touch on your father. Loomis, Albert. Beyonce. Now, how do I pronounce it? Boyence.

[Tina Knowles]

It's Beyonce.

[Kiki Palmer]

It's like Beyonce. Oh, yes, Beyonce. Now, you described him as hardworking and loving, but also a man who was blind in one eye, who couldn't read and write, but still showed up for his family. What did you learn through his quiet strength and his pain?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, I didn't learn that he couldn't read and write till I was older. I used to give him all these cards. I just loved my daddy. And he would take them and shake them out to see if there was money in them. And so it used to be funny to people. So they would give him, like, a dollar so he could shake it out. And then one day I was like, this don't seem funny anymore. And I went inside and I said, you know, I don't know why Daddy is so rude like that. And my sister said, girl, Daddy can't read and write. And I was like, what? So it made me feel so bad for all those cards I gave him. And, you know, it must have been humiliating for him. And he was just a quiet man, you know, and he liked to have his drinks on the weekend, you know, from Friday through Sunday. But he'd go to church, you know, full of that drink.

[Kiki Palmer]

My dad, too.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yep. Now you write that turning 70 gave you a whole new kind of confidence. What shifted for you in that moment? You think, you know, was it the age? Was it the decisions that you made in your life because of what you learned by that age?

[Tina Knowles]

Or, you know, the older you get, the more you care less about what everybody else thinks about you. Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

Okay.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

And you are just.

[Tina Knowles]

You just become free. And, you know, I like to say I don't give a. You know, about, you know, people judging me.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's right.

[Tina Knowles]

Or whatever. And that you just get to a place where you own. You own your life. And that's where I am now.

[Kiki Palmer]

How do you think we can continue to cultivate that kind of confidence in our everyday life? Obviously, some of it takes time, but what would you say are some Tools to be able to just be confident, to be in our authentic self and make choices today so we don't have to think about making them in the future.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, Well, I think that women now are younger women. You guys, y' all don't put up with all of that these days. You know, you get out of there. And I think that if I had anything to do over again, it would be that I would have left my marriage earlier than I would have. And I think if I was born at a later time, I think I probably would have. But there were women back then that left. I mean, I'm not that old, but it was a different time. But nowadays, I love how young women independent and they just don't put up with all of that.

[Kiki Palmer]

Now, you spoke a little bit about your mom, Ms. Agnes Darion. And I love when I hear the thing. Darion. I mean, come on. Y' all know House of Darion. Okay. Yes. So, you know, you write about her being a force, but you described her as overprotective, cautious, and yet deeply devoted. I mean, looking back and remembering her and then thinking of who you are today, what do you recognize about her that lives in you?

[Tina Knowles]

My faith. My mom had. I mean, she was so faithful to God, and she really depended on him, and she really believed that he was always there and could work out anything. And that is my faith. I mean, I know that I am here today sitting on the stage by the grace, and no matter what I've been through in my life, it's been so many miracles in my life, and he always comes through. And so.

[Kiki Palmer]

Amen.

[Tina Knowles]

Even though when I was a kid, I was very resentful because I was like, who goes to church seven days a week? My mom went to Mass seven days a week. And we used to call her St. Agnes, but not in a good way. And, you know, but she. But that stuff stuck with me. So whenever, you know, like they say, when your butt is up against the wall, you know, I have that faith. And my mom, that's the biggest gift that she gave to me. That and being able to sew, reupholster the furniture, build a kitchen cabinet, be.

[Kiki Palmer]

Self reliant, I do all of that. Yeah, I know that's right.

[Tina Knowles]

I do. I love doing all creative things. And she gave me that gift.

[Kiki Palmer]

Something else she said in the book, I want to quote, my family was on pennies, but we were living like millionaires. And I feel that because I remember, even for me growing up in the small town I grew up in Robbins, a Lot of those days were much happier than the days that I had when I started making my own money.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, what you started when you were five, nine.

[Kiki Palmer]

I had to get to work soon because I was poor. You know how bad it is to put the baby to. Okay, it was that bad. No, I ask it because now we live in such a time where everything is so compared, you know, you can turn on the social media, you can see what somebody got, you know, And I feel like it's that much harder for people to find joy in the simple things. So what was it that brought you that joy that made you feel like a millionaire even though you didn't have a lot?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, think about it. My sister had eight children, and it was five of us, and my brother had four. And they were all at our house. We had this two bedroom house that seven people lived in. We were really poor because my dad could not work all the time because of his blindness in his ear. He was a longshoreman, so he only had to do light load stuff. So anyway, we really struggled. My mom collected those S and H stamps. Y' all don't know what that is. Cause y' all too young. But they were stamps that you collected from the grocery store and you could redeem them for toys and appliances, come on credit. It was like that? Yeah, it was like that. And we had a good game going because we would go to the grocery store, my nephew Johnny, and all of us, and we would sit in the front of the store like little beggars. And people would come out and we would say, do you want your stamps? Cause that's how we get our Christmas presents. And people would give us all of their stamps. And so we would just have books of stamps, and we got croquette sets, ping pong sets. We were living, you know, my backyard, which I thought was huge, which was probably maybe about the size of this stage. Not even that wide. We thought it was huge. And we had a swing set. And for you to have a swing set back then was so fly.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yeah.

[Tina Knowles]

So everybody came to my house. They. They wanted to be over there all the time. And, you know, if you fought one, you fought everybody. And the family was a whole bunch of us. And we just had so much fun that. And the beach was right down the street, six blocks away. And so my mom would just pack these hot dogs and nickel sodas, and we would go to the beach and ride the ferry. And she would say, this is your yacht, your boat. And I would be like, oh, so you know, it's funny because when I became a teenager, I put this in a book, and I used to take Destiny's Child out on the ferry to ride the ferry. And you feed the pigeons and, you know, it's a ferry. It's a raggedy ferry that you drive the cars on. But I would say, when I was young, I would take all my boyfriends there and I would sing to them, and I would say, do you want to go on my yacht? And they would be like, you got a yacht? And I would take them out on the ferry and sing to them. So that was a good game.

[Kiki Palmer]

I know that's right.

[Tina Knowles]

So I thought we, you know, how could you think that you were poor when you had all of that fun and love and the beach and all?

[Kiki Palmer]

And all I keep hearing is community, community, community. And that's really where it lies.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah.

[Kiki Palmer]

You know, we continue to see the erasure of our history and our culture. As an avid collector of black art, you know, I got to do the wearable art gallery with you. That was. That was so fabulous. Yes. This was incredible. What do you believe is the responsibility of artists today in preserving the history and the community that you're speaking to?

[Tina Knowles]

Well, absolutely, as a collector of art, I look on my walls every day and I see history. And art is a way that we can keep that history going. And so you can erase it out of the books, but you can't come in my house and take my paintings that are on my wall. So it's a very important, important thing that we can pass on to our kids. And, you know, it's funny because my kids would say all the time, they were like, mama, we don't like your art. Your art is, you got all this slave art. But I'm like, you know, that's a part of our history, too.

[Kiki Palmer]

That's right.

[Tina Knowles]

So now they can appreciate it somewhat. They still like contemporary art, but that is history. So think about years from now, if things are erased, that I can pull those paintings out and then explain, not me, but my great grandchildren to their children. Well, at one time this happened. And artists keep that alive. They're inspired by it.

[Kiki Palmer]

I couldn't agree more. And even when I think about the Renaissance and what that means and how that album has time stamped this period where we have the works of not just that album, but the work of films like Sinners from Ryan Kluger or we have albums from Kendrick Lamar, or. It truly is the renaissance of that self awareness that we're seeing these black artists take that next step and that evolution of owning our own narrative and being the masters of our own story, that is the Renaissance.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes, it is.

[Kiki Palmer]

It is. It's just incredible to see. So, you know, I would love to have a little fun with you on some, you know, rapid questions. If you're down.

[Tina Knowles]

Oh, Lord.

[Kiki Palmer]

Okay, little razzle tazzle. Okay, I'm keeping it simple. Last time you went to Target.

[Tina Knowles]

No, you didn't. It's been a while. It's been a while.

[Jennifer Hudson]

Okay.

[Kiki Palmer]

Go to comfort food.

[Tina Knowles]

Oh, God. Soul food.

[Kiki Palmer]

Always, always. I live for a Mac and cheese, sweet potato combo, even spaghetti and catfish. I know it don't sound right, but try it. Okay. Early bird or night owl?

[Tina Knowles]

Night owl.

[Kiki Palmer]

Ooh, I didn't expect that. Dream job as a child.

[Tina Knowles]

As a child. Probably working at an ice cream place. I used to want to work at an ice cream.

[Kiki Palmer]

The liquid at night. Favorite hobby?

[Tina Knowles]

The beach. Just anything about the beach. It's my. This is my happy place.

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, I love that. Favorite show all time. This is gonna get.

[Tina Knowles]

Favorite show, favorite movie.

[Kiki Palmer]

Won't you give me favorite movie or.

[Tina Knowles]

My favorite movie is Cooley High. Oh, my God.

[Kiki Palmer]

They killed Cochise.

[Sharon Palmer]

What?

[Tina Knowles]

They killed Cochise. They killed Cochise. And you know, one of my best friends is. Preach. Where you at?

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. Is he here?

[Tina Knowles]

Yes. The long time. No way.

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, my go.

[Tina Knowles]

Oh, my gosh. You guys.

[Kiki Palmer]

You guys. Icon. Cooley High.

[Tina Knowles]

Yes.

[Kiki Palmer]

One of the most cultural classic film. Whoever haven't seen. You gotta check it out. It's sad, though. Get ready to cry.

[Tina Knowles]

Yeah, I cry still. I've seen it about 27 times. And I.

[Kiki Palmer]

And you know, they filmed it in Chicago. And my uncle used to always say I was in the back scene. No, he was not. You was not in the back. Okay. Best birthday gift you ever received. But before you tell them.

[Tina Knowles]

Ooh.

[Kiki Palmer]

She gave me these as a gift, guys. These Schiaparella earrings. Isn't she just the sweetest? I had to tell them.

[Tina Knowles]

I'm trying to think. The best birthday that I ever had, I think was. Oh, my God. With my family in the Bahamas. I mean, it was. So I was on the beach, I was eating good, sleeping good, and I was surrounded by just a lot of people in my family. It was the best.

[Kiki Palmer]

Family always makes it good. This is the last one.

[Tina Knowles]

Okay.

[Kiki Palmer]

Last thing you cooked?

[Tina Knowles]

The last thing I cooked was. Was gumbo.

[Kiki Palmer]

And, you know, it was good. What'd you put in your gumbo?

[Tina Knowles]

Oh, girl. Everything. Everything. Sausage, crab.

[Kiki Palmer]

I feel like greens, beans, tomatoes, sausage, crawfish.

[Tina Knowles]

We need to do a gumbo one. Yes. Yes. You need to do that.

[Kiki Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. Well, tonight has been so full of joy and love and laughter and powerful life lessons. Ms. Tina, it has been an honor to sit beside you.

[Tina Knowles]

Well, thank you. And I just. Kiki is on her way to the Met Ball and she came and did this for me anytime. The best. Sharon, Jennifer, what can I say?

[Kiki Palmer]

We all thank you for the wisdom, the stories, the encouragement, and the inspiration to really believe that anything is possible. It really keeps us going. You are a true queen and a shining example of strength and grace. Thank you, Los Angeles. Y' all showed up tonight.

[Tina Knowles]

This is wonderful.

[Kiki Palmer]

Have a wonderful night, everyone. And please give one last loud applause for Mama T. Ms. Tina Norris. Give a boss.

[Tina Knowles]

I love that.

[Kiki Palmer]

I love you. Thank you.

[Tina Knowles]

Go catch your flight.

[Kiki Palmer]

Yes. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Paul.

[Unknown]

Maybe every successful business starts with an idea. And on the best idea yet, we're obsessed with those light bulb moments. Like how a bored barista invented the Frappuccino during his downtime and then it got acquired by Starbucks. Or how Patagonia's iconic fleece was inspired by a toilet seat cover. On the best idea yet, we dive into the untold origin stories behind the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk takers who made them go viral. These are the wild ideas and insights that made Birkenstock the best selling sandals since Jesus and made Super Mario the most played video game in the history of attention span. Yeah, Nintendo almost became a ramen company until Super Mario saved it. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Follow the best idea yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor.

Last year, Law and crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John o' Keefe, with her car. Karen Reed is arrested and charged with second degree murder. The six week trial resulted in anything but resolution.

[Tina Knowles]

We continue to find ourselves at an impasse. I'm declaring a mistrial in this case.

[Unknown]

But now the case is back in the spotlight and one one question still lingers. Did Karen Reid kill John o' Keefe?

The evidence is overwhelming that Karen Reed is innocent.

[Tina Knowles]

How does it feel to be a cop killer? Karen?

[Unknown]

I'm Kristen Thorne, investigative reporter with Law and Crime and host of the podcast Karen the Retrial. This isn't just a retrial. It's a second chance at the truth.

[Kiki Palmer]

I have nothing to hide.

[Unknown]

My life is in the balance.

[Kiki Palmer]

Violence. And it shouldn't be. I just want people to go back to who the victim is in this. It's not her.

[Unknown]

Listen to episodes of Karen the Retrial exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus.