Turning Shade Into Shine with Trixie Mattel

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Turning Shade Into Shine with Trixie Mattel"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Baby, This is Keke Palmer
• Host: Keke Palmer
• Guest: Trixie Mattel
• Episode Title: Turning Shade Into Shine with Trixie Mattel
• Release Date: March 25, 2025

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Introduction and Guest Background

In the episode titled "Turning Shade Into Shine with Trixie Mattel," host Keke Palmer delves deep into the transformative journey of the renowned drag queen, Trixie Mattel. Palmer sets the stage by highlighting Trixie's ability to convert criticism into confidence and pain into power, establishing her as an epitome of resilience and self-love.

Notable Quote:

• Keke Palmer [00:00]: “Today we are talking about turning shade into shine, criticism into confidence and pain into power. And baby, I can't think of anyone who embodies that more than my guest today, the one, the only, Trixie Mattel...”

The Origin of Trixie Mattel

Palmer and Trixie Mattel explore the origin of Trixie's drag persona. The name "Trixie" was initially a derogatory term used by her stepfather to belittle her femininity. Instead of letting it break her, Trixie reclaimed the name, transforming it into a symbol of empowerment.

Notable Quotes:

• Keke Palmer [34:13]: “...you can just think about it that way, and you don't want it to come from a superficial way.”
• Trixie Mattel [34:42]: “When I was younger, my stepdad would call me a Trixie whenever I was acting too feminine... I took the power from them. Now the name that was meant to hurt me became the foundation of my empire.”

Overcoming Criticism and Embracing Identity

The conversation delves into the struggles Trixie faced growing up, including familial misunderstandings and societal judgments. Both Keke and Trixie discuss how embracing their authentic selves helped them navigate and overcome external criticisms.

Notable Quotes:

• Keke Palmer [07:04]: “I've always been really into how I'm showing up, how I look, how, you know, being presentable...”
• Trixie Mattel [10:46]: “I've taken the power from them. So now, what? Now what are you going to call me?”

Taking a Break: Social Media and Self-Care

Trixie shares her experience of taking a three-month hiatus from social media to combat stress, manage arthritis, and regain control over her mental health. This break was crucial in helping her reconnect with herself outside the digital realm.

Notable Quotes:

• Trixie Mattel [18:44]: “I took the long break, and getting off social media was like leaving the Matrix.”
• Keke Palmer [19:04]: “I feel like I should, and I need to.”

Influence of RuPaul and the Drag Culture

A significant portion of the discussion centers around RuPaul's impact on both Trixie and Keke's careers. They admire RuPaul's ability to maintain a clear vision and consistent branding, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in entertainment.

Notable Quotes:

• Trixie Mattel [29:04]: “I'm obsessed with RuPaul. She is everything.”
• Keke Palmer [31:32]: “The branding. It's the overall... RuPaul means something greater than that.”

Personal Growth Through Performance Arts

Both hosts reflect on how their respective artistic endeavors—drag for Trixie and acting/hosting for Keke—have been instrumental in their personal growth. They discuss the therapeutic aspects of performance and how it facilitates self-exploration and healing.

Notable Quotes:

• Trixie Mattel [37:57]: “Drag was my little rocket to [becoming] a confident person.”
• Keke Palmer [38:38]: “Having ownership over this aspect of yourself that was once so judged...”

Reflections on Relationships and Self

In a candid segment, Keke and Trixie share their perspectives on relationships, highlighting their desire for authentic connections and their aversion to superficial interactions. This part of the conversation underscores the importance of vulnerability and honesty in personal relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Trixie Mattel [47:16]: “I have a lot of empathy for [those pretending not to be like other gays].”
• Keke Palmer [45:39]: “It's really just you and all these different fonts.”

Fun Segment: Romantic-Themed Questions

To infuse light-heartedness, Keke introduces a romantic-themed game where she asks Trixie playful questions about dating red flags, relationship preferences, and ideal Tinder bios. This segment showcases the conversational chemistry between the hosts and adds a humorous touch to the episode.

Notable Quotes:

• Keke Palmer [47:05]: “What's the romantic equivalent of smudged eyeliner?”
• Trixie Mattel [48:19]: “I just love touching. I love cuddling...”

Conclusion and Takeaways

Wrapping up the episode, Keke emphasizes the powerful lesson learned from Trixie's story: facing criticism head-on and transforming it into personal strength. She encourages listeners to embrace self-love and turn critiques into sources of empowerment.

Notable Quote:

• Keke Palmer [57:10]: “We've all faced criticism, right? But it's what you do with it that matters. Trixie took something that was meant to tear her down and turned it into the foundation of her empire. That self-love is on a whole other level.”

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Final Thoughts

"Turning Shade Into Shine with Trixie Mattel" is a compelling episode that intertwines personal anecdotes, profound insights, and humorous exchanges. Keke Palmer and Trixie Mattel create an engaging narrative that not only entertains but also inspires listeners to embrace their true selves and convert challenges into triumphs. This episode serves as a testament to the transformative power of authenticity and resilience in the face of adversity.

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Stay Connected:

• Listen to the full episode on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts.
• Subscribe to the Wondery channel on YouTube for more engaging content.
• Follow Keke Palmer and Trixie Mattel on their social media platforms to stay updated on their latest projects and insights.

Transcript

[Keke Palmer]

This episode is sponsored by Airbnb. If Spring Fever's got you feeling a little antsy, might I suggest booking an Airbnb for a change of scenery? Now, let's start the show. What's up, listeners? Today we are talking about turning shade into shine, criticism into confidence and pain into power. And baby, I can't think of anyone who embodies that more than my guest today, the one, the only, Trixie Mattel, who adopted the drag name Trixie after her stepfather used it to put her down for being feminine. We'll get into all that. Trixie's break from social media and drag, ending things with her long term partner and more. So let's go because, baby, this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doin in the car just chillin pop on Amazon music Sit back and listen Life, love, sex, science covering it all especially the bad cause money always evolved no matter what it is we gon make it make sense Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings to grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only one you know it's your girl Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Karma.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

I am really excited to work. Which wouldn't work with Trixie. Talk to Trixie. I worked with her on the Google Pixel launch.

[Sharon Palmer]

Oh, okay.

[Keke Palmer]

You remember she was there with Monet X Change.

[Sharon Palmer]

Oh, okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Both drag queens were on Drew Paul's. Drew Paul's, RuPaul's Drag Race. All my words are mixing back and forth, but I met them there. Fabulous, fabulous girls. And so I'm excited to talk to Trixie because I didn't realize this story. You know, Key who did my hair, he's also from, you know, him and Lenora, both from Milwaukee. So is Trixie.

[Sharon Palmer]

Oh, okay.

[Keke Palmer]

And she's got a drag bar down there that Key did one of his first drag shows at.

[Sharon Palmer]

Oh, very nice.

[Keke Palmer]

So she has a very inspiring story for obviously inspiring drag queens, but just in general and hearing about, I didn't know anything about her status, calling her this name and how she's taken that power back, I think that's really inspiring.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah. That is not only inspiring, but it's ingenious. It was very smart. I like the name Trixie. It's very eye catching.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. Now, for you, growing up, were there things about you that you felt like your family didn't get or that you people didn't understand about you? Where you found your community that obviously did accept you, embraced you, and allowed you to be kind of your full self.

[Sharon Palmer]

Well, of course, I was a theater kid. I was a debate kid. And, yeah, my family was very simple, blue collar Chicago. Like I said, get a job at the post office, which is an honorable job. Get a job working downtown in Mayor Daley's office. He was the big mayor. When I was a kid working downtown, it was always work downtown in an office. That was like the picture perfect scenario. So for me. Scenario. So for me to say I wanted to be an actor or I wanted to be a choreographer or anything. Oh, my gosh.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, you told me that you went a whole seasons in your life saying, I'm gonna be a choreographer.

[Sharon Palmer]

I'm a choreographer.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

Well, let me tell you how that happened, Sharon.

[Keke Palmer]

That gives me life.

[Sharon Palmer]

But let me tell you how that happened. I didn't even know what the hell a choreographer was. I was sitting in my mother's beauty salon, and like I said, she had her own business. And my mother used to have a JET magazine subscription. And so I would anticipate. And a lot of times I would go to the beauty salon and she would save them for me. So, like, it would be like a stack of JET magazines. And so I would look at these magazines and like, it's a predominantly. Well, it was an all black magazine.

[Keke Palmer]

Predominantly black.

[Sharon Palmer]

It wasn't predominantly black. It was black. There were no white people in this magazine. Anyway. Anyway.

[Keke Palmer]

That's funny, mama.

[Sharon Palmer]

We would look at the COVID of the magazine and it would just have some of the most beautiful, exciting black people. Like, Bill Cosby was on the COVID And, well, I mean, we are talking back in the 70s, guys. He was a big entertainer then. Guys. And then you had Diana Ross, okay? You had all these people. And one of the covers was Debbie Allen.

[Keke Palmer]

Come on, Debbie.

[Sharon Palmer]

And it was Debbie Allen, and it was her and all the stuff she had done and she was choreographing something for the Oscars. And I was like, this black woman is a. What is she a choreographer? And I remember telling my mother, I'm gonna be a choreographer. What the hell is that?

[Keke Palmer]

I love.

[Sharon Palmer]

And people are like, well, what exactly is that? I like, I don't know. Debbie Allen is a choreographer. I wanna do what Debbie Allen is doing. And then when I got old enough to really look at a dictionary and see what it was, I was like, well, I can dance, but do I.

[Keke Palmer]

Really wanna create dance?

[Sharon Palmer]

I don't know if I could do dancing the way she's doing it, you know? So, yeah, but I did that, you.

[Keke Palmer]

Know, I love the stories of one finding themselves, particularly Sharon. I love the stories of you finding, like. Cause I know you found. You know what I mean? Like, when I, by. I met you and had realizations of you, you had already committed to who Sharon Palmer is.

[Sharon Palmer]

Right?

[Keke Palmer]

Right. So what I'm hearing about you becoming Sharon. Becoming Sharon Palmer.

[Sharon Palmer]

Becoming Sharon Palmer is too good. Well, talking about, you know, the drag queens and nut world, when I was about 18, I did a play, and it was in Chicago, on the south side of Chicago, at a college called Kennedy King. It's not even around anymore. And the hairstylist on that show, he was a drag queen. And he would come in and he would do our makeup and stuff, and then he would dress himself. So I would sit there and I would watch him do his own makeup, and I would watch him do his own hair and just everything. And I was so fascinated. And I was like, so now where are you going when you leave here? And he said, I'm going to do my show. And I just thought that was so. Just unbelievably cool.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Sharon Palmer]

He would do his job, and then he would go and do his own makeup. And then when he left, he was gorgeous. He would walk out and he would have his gowns, and I just thought that that was really cool. I never thought it was anything that I needed to scoff at. I thought it was just really a really cool thing that this man was so dedicated to his show.

[Keke Palmer]

Uh, yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

I feel like growing up, for me, the things that I felt people didn't understand about me or just like, I felt. I don't wanna say. I would say criticized was my deep concern for. It's funny because I'm obviously entertaining, but my deep concern about how I showed up. Yeah, you remember, y'all would always make fun of me going to the mailbox with my hair done and the outfit on, you know, and dad would always tease and say, you're so vain. You know what I mean? But vanity's a great motivator. You know, I've always been really into how I'm showing up, how I look, how, you know, being presentable, you know what I mean? Or whatever like that. I feel like sometimes I would be teased by that.

[Sharon Palmer]

I think it's really how you judge, though. I mean, how you smell. I mean, you know, I remember. I'm saying that because I remember Chet Brown, who was my speech coach in high school. He would have a whole talk about hygiene, and he would say, you're coming to debate. You know, it's not only about what you're wearing. It's about how you smell.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

When you walk into the room and someone smells you, they create a whole package of who you are.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

You know what I mean? And good or bad, but that's how we're judged.

[Keke Palmer]

When it came to things that, when you were younger that you felt were criticized or just in your humanity that made it difficult for you to communicate. How did you evolve and be able to learn how to really communicate with people despite how they may have misunderstood you or your character?

[Sharon Palmer]

You know, there were many moments in my younger life where I would just get quiet sometimes, where I wouldn't do a lot of talking. I just wouldn't express myself at all. I just would be quiet, I would listen, and then I would slowly come out of that, you know, funk or whatever you want to call it. And I don't know. I've just always just been a praying person. I've always prayed. I've always believed in praying and meditating and that, you know, the answers will come, you know?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sharon Palmer]

Sometimes you just can't force things.

[Keke Palmer]

You get internal and you kind of just go insular to find that peace within yourself where there might be confusion on the outside. It's so funny because I do that too. But also I go outside.

[Sharon Palmer]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, and get boisterous and dramatic and confused.

[Sharon Palmer]

And what your guest, Trixie did was.

[Keke Palmer]

The same type of vibe. Become entertaining, you know, entertainment and transport your world. And I mean that. I think that's what, you know, hey, we're entertainers. That's what entertainer does. Wants to explore, wants to get out there. Wants to transform, wants to transition. Mute. Wants to alchemize.

[Sharon Palmer]

But I'm also a Virgo. So part of it was, you didn't deserve my voice. So a little was a little arrogance, too. It was okay. So you're gonna make fun of me? You're gonna make fun of me? You're gonna attack me? You're going to criticize me? Well, then I'm not gonna give you me.

[Keke Palmer]

That one is so difficult. You know why? Because you can end up poisoning yourself.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah, I've done that with that.

[Keke Palmer]

You know what I mean? Cause I've done. You know what I mean? Like, that can end up you before you know it, you know? And dad used to tell me that a lot, too, when I was a kid. He was like, you hold grudges. I'm like, no, I don't. You know what I mean? And he was like you do. And it's not good for you.

[Sharon Palmer]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

It's not good for you to hold a grudge because you know, that does make sense to just shut down and I'm done. I'm no longer gonna be.

[Sharon Palmer]

But before you know it, I got you asking to hear. I got you asking to hear from me. When? Before I couldn't say anything without you criticizing. So now every word I say you have a problem with. Okay, so now you have a problem that I'm not talking. Okay, all right, well, now I see the problem isn't me, it's your ass. What's wrong with you? Because I'm talking and you want to criticize, and now I'm not talking and you still want to find out why I'm not talking and why you criticizing me not talking. So now that's lame, okay?

[Keke Palmer]

And that's why you got to keep talking.

[Sharon Palmer]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

You know what I mean?

[Sharon Palmer]

And that's why you also gotta realize that everybody brings their own shit to.

[Keke Palmer]

The table, so why not just be yourself? You know what I'm saying?

[Sharon Palmer]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

If people gonna hate me, love me, either which way, why not just be who I want to be?

[Sharon Palmer]

That's right.

[Keke Palmer]

You know what I mean?

[Sharon Palmer]

No, that's right. That's absolutely right. But it took years and I love.

[Keke Palmer]

That because that actually brings us back to why Trixie probably calls herself Trixie. I'm gonna be Trix. You think I'm Trixie. Regardless, whatever that means to you, this is what it means to me.

[Sharon Palmer]

Well, I'm sure it probably was. Told her, you're a trick. You're a Trixie. It probably was negative and she was like, yeah, I am Trixie, baby.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, wait a minute now. I need her to do exact. Now, Sharon, where did you transport to that gave me life? I am Trix. Wait a minute, Sharon, that's the line in the movie of Trixie's life. That's the scene she's going through, the hardship, all this drama with her dad. She's sitting at the thing and she's like, trixie. That's right. I am Trixie.

[Sharon Palmer]

Like that was it.

[Keke Palmer]

I love that. We've done it. We wrote the movie, we're gonna get cast.

[Sharon Palmer]

Well, what she did was she took the power from them. So now the name that you think you're hurting me with, you're calling me a trick or Trixie, whatever, you're calling me that name. Okay, well, I'm going to claim that name. I'm going to take it from you and I'm going to put power on it. Now what? Now what are you going to call me?

[Keke Palmer]

I love that. I can't wait to talk to her about this. Now, y'all know over here at Baby, this is Keke Palmer. We like to keep things very classy, very demure, and thanks to Airbnb, you can have your very own spring break without any of the co ed chaos. That's right. As a Virgo, I could be very particular about my vacations. And crowded beaches and busy hotels simply do not fit into my fantasy. In the past, when I needed a break, I went straight for some peace and quiet. Whether it was a trailer in Joshua Tree or lakeside cabin up in Big Bear, Airbnb was always the first place I check when I'm trying to escape the drama in the middle of nowhere. Without all the hubbub, I was able to sit back, relax, and actually take a load off. So if you're avoiding south beach this spring, you should check into one of Airbnb's guest favorites. These are the most loved homes on Airbnb, and they got the ratings to prove it. Okay? You can find spots so luxe and off the beaten path, you'll forget spring break even exists. So ditch the drama, embrace the peace, and book the guest's favorite home you've been eyeing on Airbnb. Trust me, your grown and sexy self deserves it. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. All right, y'all, let me tell you about my guest today. You might know her from RuPaul's Drag Race, where she snatch that crown on All Stars. Or maybe you've seen her hilarious and totally off the Wall YouTube show with Katia that just keeps us all rolling. And let's not forget her Netflix Glow up moment with Trixie Motel that really gagged me. Turning Palm Springs into a real estate in a pastel dream. Trixie Mattel, I'm so excited to have you here. Welcome to the show. It's good to see you, boo.

[Trixie Mattel]

You look beautiful. My computer screen has never looked more gorgeous.

[Keke Palmer]

I know that's right. Okay.

[Trixie Mattel]

And look at your sign.

[Keke Palmer]

Thank you. You know, I tried to really up, you know, each year, baby, this Keke Palmer continues to grow and evolve. You know, I'm just trying to get on your level, girl.

[Trixie Mattel]

Look at my level. It's a whiteboard that says, baby, this is Keke Palmer. So. I'm so good. How are you?

[Keke Palmer]

I'm good, I'm good. I'm in New York, the East Coast. I've been here for a lot of, you know, the beginning of 2025, which I love because I'm just like, you know, I'm from Illinois, a Midwest girl, and east coast stole my heart, even though I grew up in Cali, you know, so it's just. I'm living the dream.

[Trixie Mattel]

Where in Illinois are you from?

[Keke Palmer]

I'm from a south suburb, very rural area called Robbins. It's like. Like, literally, it's from here to there.

[Trixie Mattel]

Wow. I'm from Wisconsin. I'm your northern neighbor.

[Keke Palmer]

I know. And you also have a bar there that one of my friends who recently started getting into drag performed at.

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, yes, we have one of the best places to perform for. Listen, when you're a drag queen and you own a gay bar, you have to. You have a responsibility to have a nice dressing room.

[Keke Palmer]

For what? And I feel like you gave nothing less. Like, he was so happy to go, was living every moment of it. And so. Shout out to Pousse. Poussay.

[Trixie Mattel]

Pousse. Poussay. Hello. Now, I know you've had an illustrious career. I imagine you have found yourself in some very destitute dressing rooms as well, at some point.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, all the time. Especially when I'm doing tour dates, I feel like that's when it's the most difficult. You know what I mean? Like, I just imagine my life one day being able to just have a residency place where I just. And I could do everything in my own curated space. Very type A of me. But, you know, hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. Make sure your makeup artist brings the lighting and, you know, go from there.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yeah, it's. Sometimes I'll. Like, when I was touring some of the dates where it's like, oh, this is a, you know, a rock venue. And when they say rock venue, I start to picture the dressing room. I'm like, so it's gonna be three leather couches, literally one flickering light, like. And I'm going to be, you know, trying to put makeup on in the dark.

[Keke Palmer]

I have to just tell you the way that you do and beat your face. Like, I just feel like I hate that every time I get my makeup done, I'm thinking to myself, damn, this is the real me that I deserve to be every day. The fact that you can beat your face within an inch of your life. How long did it take you to get so good? Was it just every single day that you was doing it? Did you actually study? Is this just a gift that I can't obtain?

[Trixie Mattel]

No, I'm pretty Sure you can. Pretty sure. People who love you know that you can probably do anything. However, I mean, I was, you know, my early, like, 1918, starting drag. And, you know, I was just buying drugstore makeup from the CVS down the street from my house and just, like, going home and putting on movies and trying to draw things on my face and long processes of experimentation. And then I got jobs at makeup counter. So I worked at an ulta for a while, and then I was at a Mac counter for, like, five years.

[Keke Palmer]

Come on, Mac.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yes. This was like, you know, the 2,012. And this is when Mac was really killing. But this is when Mac was really like, we are Mac, you know?

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Trixie Mattel]

And that was fun, but that was like death by. Or not death by. It was like baptism by fire. Because you gotta imagine I'm like, 21. I get my little mall makeup job. You have only had when you're 21 or 22, no matter how experienced you are, you've only been doing it really a few years. So you really just have a poker face at all times, literally. But I. But it was like, you know, doing all ages, all genders, all ethnicities. It really makes you learn on the fly and learn everything. Every time you do someone's makeup, you kind of learn something random from them, too.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. I always tell people, they're like, if you were to do any other job, I always say hair stylist. But I feel like makeup artists in glam in general, when somebody's in your face or in their hair, you're gonna get all the business. Like, it becomes a therapy session. So the fact that you're, like, doing all these people makeup and all the conversations that you're gonna have is just gonna take you places.

[Trixie Mattel]

It's intimate. I mean, I'm sure that there's probably so many wonderful glam people who've gotten to do you, but I'm sure you have a small usual suspects who do your hair and makeup. And you get. So you start to tell them things that you don't tell your best friends.

[Keke Palmer]

Because you're sitting there forever. Like, I don't know about how long it takes you, but when I get my makeup done, done, like glam glam, it takes, like, three hours. How long does it take you generally? I know. Isn't that crazy? Like, three hours yesterday.

[Trixie Mattel]

Girl, what are you doing in there for three hours?

[Keke Palmer]

Kenya.

[Sharon Palmer]

Kenya.

[Keke Palmer]

Shout out to Kenya because KE literally over there painting me like a Picasso. It's too much.

[Trixie Mattel]

Well, can I say this about Kenya? I have Worked with you in real life. We did some commercial things together. And let me tell you, Ms. Kenya delivered. You looked like a goddess.

[Keke Palmer]

She don't fucking play.

[Trixie Mattel]

You looked amazing. It was me, you, and Monet X Change.

[Keke Palmer]

Yup, Monet.

[Trixie Mattel]

And you came in, what, at our hip level, about.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, because y'all was like, it was giving down, girl.

[Trixie Mattel]

It was. I looked like. It was like two March Simpsons and you were Lisa Simpson. Like, we were all just together.

[Keke Palmer]

And I remember you took your face off quick. You were like, I'm done, bitch. You took yourself off quick. You were like, I'm done, bitch. Holla at your girl.

[Trixie Mattel]

Well, I love to be in the glam, but at a certain point, you know, at the end of the day, you're like, I'm about to claw this off my face.

[Keke Palmer]

No, seriously, seriously. And you just took a hiatus, I know, from the YouTube show, from Dragon in general. What kind of brought that on for you? Was it what we're talking about now? Kind of just like. Like, the whole get up, you know?

[Trixie Mattel]

Kiki, can I ask you, have you ever gotten to take, like, a. An elongated break, Something like three months? Have you ever gotten to take, like, a nice, long break?

[Keke Palmer]

No. And I say that sadly because I. I feel like I should, and I need to.

[Trixie Mattel]

Can I tell you, I. I did it from a place of, like, wow, need it. I mean, I had all time stress was at an all time high, you know, and I had a separation that I. I wasn't really able to or wanted to publicly talk about yet. And I had just gotten diagnosed with arthritis. And, you know, I'm 35, and to get arthritis young was. I just was having problems moving. It was so hard, and I just was hitting your body starts to really tell you, miss Thing, I know you like to work. I know you like to do drag, but you need to stop. And so I took the long break, and, Kiki, I did no socials, no Twitter, no nothing for three months. And getting off social media was. It was like leaving the Matrix.

[Keke Palmer]

I was like, yeah.

[Trixie Mattel]

You know, But I got to tell you, it was wonderful.

[Keke Palmer]

I think we kind of forgot about the real world sometimes. And what I mean by that, I'm not trying to say that there's not real stuff happening on social media. You know, we do live, make money. There's stuff happening. I'm not trying to diminish it, but, you know, when you're always like this, it becomes difficult sometimes to, like, look around like this and to realize that there is such another aspect to the world, that the world's not just in our phones. So I totally can imagine how that must have felt to just not feel the pressure of that. But then also, like you said, life is happening. And you mentioned something about the arthritis where it's like, I recently I had, what do you call it, frozen shoulder. You know what I mean?

[Trixie Mattel]

You did?

[Keke Palmer]

I had like, my shoulder was like, literally I could not freaking move it. And I had a breakdown with my best friend where, you know, I was like, she was trying to help me get a masseuse to help me with my shoulder and all this type of stuff like that. You know, I'm always working, working, working, working. And I just started to cry because I'm like, we're not athletes, right? But like, you're in heels 24 7. We're running like we're depending on our bodies in the same way that anybody, you know, we all are working and trying to get and moving around and you don't realize that your body is tired because the mind can be so strong. So for my shoulder, I'm trying to be a mom, pick up my son. I'm working, I'm doing an action flick at the time. And I just cried in her arms because I'm like, I gotta take care of myself because if not my body is going to break down on me. And it just devastated me to think about it being taken from me when all I have to do is just take a beat for myself. Like it's either your choice or your body signs out for you type of thing.

[Trixie Mattel]

That is the truth. I mean, I was having my joints, my knees started. My knees were starting first, then my elbows, then my jaw. Kiki. I was waking up with my jaw stuck shut and I was going to doctors and getting X rays. Cause, you know, this is America. And I think we all immediately think there's something wrong with our body, not our mind. But like in holistic medicine, everything is linked not to be too woo woo. It's very possible that if something's going on with your body, it's probably your heart and your brain too.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Trixie Mattel]

It is all one system.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I think it's just.

[Trixie Mattel]

And your body just starts to be like, if you don't stop, we're gonna stop you, Miss thing.

[Keke Palmer]

And so I think it's also important what you're saying too. And it's something that I struggle with as well because I know you love drag, I love entertainment, we love what we do. But this reality of the distinction between me loving what I do it being a true joy for me and the point in which it goes from being joyful to actually hindering me and knowing when to draw the line. Like, I've been also, with myself, learning how to kind of have that balance because it's like, how can I stop doing the one thing that has been my piece? You know what I'm saying? Like, there is a time where it's like, oh, my gosh, I need a character to dive into, or I need to write this song, or I need to have this conversation in order to escape in a certain way. And then it's like the one thing that I'm escaping to is actually the thing that I need to, like, take a break from. Did you find other things that you were interested in and that you love just as much as drag?

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, my God. I became, like, Amish. I was like a men knight. I. Girl, I would wake up and when your phone is just to make calls.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Trixie Mattel]

You don't really spend any time on it. Like, I. It would just sit connected to the wall like an analog landline all day. And I would bike every day.

[Keke Palmer]

I went to the gym, biking, biking.

[Trixie Mattel]

I would listen to podcasts and bike, listen to audiobooks. I was reading. I was doing watercolor. I cook.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. The paint. The coloring thing has become a thing. Sorry, go ahead.

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, yeah. Well, my therapist is like, you know, some people with arthritis find that it's helpful to color. And I was like, don't patronize me. He was like, you should go buy some crayons. I was like, I'm a homosexual and I'm an artist. I'm gonna do watercolor. And, you know, watercolor will humble you real quick. Like, I would say I'm an okay makeup artist and not a skilled watercolor artist, but I was cooking every meal, like, from scratch. Oh, my God. Just taking every opportunity to do the present, hands on analog version of it. And let me tell you, Kiki, I really accidentally realized for me, probably the first time, how amazing and how grateful I am for Trixie and drag. When you're doing it all the time, what is it? You can't see the forest through the trees, Whatever.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right. Yeah, that's what they say.

[Trixie Mattel]

And then suddenly you're like, wow, I miss it. I love it. I appreciate it. And when you do it all the time, you don't have an opportunity to miss it and love it. And I came back so, like, horny for it. I love doing drag.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh, I love that. So much. And you again, you're inspiring me because, you know, and then that's the thing. You sign on to so many things. You have much stuff that you have to complete and follow through on. And figuring out how to take that moment to just say, hey, this is what I'm going to do. For me, it, it's, it feels so big, but I know that it's so rewarding. So I need to have my three month break. Baby. This is Kiki Palma.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yeah. You know, when I first met you, I kind of blurted out that like, I don't know if people always talk to you about this, but I was like, had to talk to you about Scream.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh my gosh. Yeah, the MTV show.

[Trixie Mattel]

And I was like, you're one of those people where sometimes you've been in entertainment so long. I'm like, but you look so young. I'm like, is she a time traveling 18 year old? And obviously you were playing a teenager in that show. And I was like, were you a teenager? How old were you?

[Keke Palmer]

I definitely was not a teenager. I was playing 16. And I think I was like 22, 23 at the time. Secrets. But you know, it's so funny. I love that I can get new lives in acting. I don't know, obviously my playing Teenage Days is over. Was probably done like at that 22, 23. But even still now, you know, I live for the fact that hey, let's get into a new world, you know what I mean? So I appreciate that. I receive that love.

[Trixie Mattel]

If you're trying to stress less, I don't know if you should do more Scream type programs though.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, you know what's so funny? I do feel like that's why I've leaned more into comedy. Like, I mean, obviously the material that's there is the material that's there. But when I was transitioning and like going into social media, content creation and influencing, I really did lean into comedy because I felt like a lot of the drama stuff that I had been doing earlier on or focusing on and acting was draining. Like people don't know. Like my emotions don't know. I'm kidding. So when I'm doing, you know, a movie like Pimp, where my, you know, mama is on drugs and I'm trying to make sure these hoes in line, that shit is stressing me the hell out, you know what I mean? So I feel like for me, you know, there's two things you think about artistically, where you're coming from and then what's going on in the world. And I was like, we need to laugh. I need to laugh. We need to laugh, like. And that, I think, has been very much so, like, a big part of my inspiration and drive to do more fun stuff, because I want to be at ease.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yeah. I always hear stories of people who are like, I really wanted to do. I think I remember hearing, like, a Rebel Wilson interview where she was like, I really always wanted to do drama, but every time I would get up there, people would laugh. So I think it's always funny when some people want to do drama and then they're just accidentally fucking funny. And so I think even if you didn't want to do comedy, I do think you probably would get sucked in because you are fucking funny.

[Keke Palmer]

I love that. And I feel like it was a matter of time because people would tell me that, like, when I would work on, like, dramatic, like, I did a movie, Akilah and the Bee, it's a very serious part. People on the set will be like, you're funny. Or, you know what I mean? I remember I was doing the NAACP Awards with Tyler James Williams. We were kids and the teleprompter went out while we're up there doing the line. Hey, you know, you're watching those, and I just start, you know, filling the space because I'm one of those people. I mean, you even seen it at the Met Gala when it's silence, I'm going to fucking try to fill it with something. Whether it's like, hey, y'all. Yeah, Like, I just. It makes me nervous and that's what comes out.

[Trixie Mattel]

I love those weird moments. Like, sometimes in entertainment, you have this moment where there's a tech problem and you and someone you admire or someone, you know, you're stuck together. One time I was on Drag Race for something. I wasn't competing, but I was on it for something. And the lights went out in the workroom and RuPaul and I were in there alone, and we had to sit, me, RuPaul, in the dark in the workroom while they fixed, like, the air conditioned lighting. And to have, like, a private moment in the dark with RuPaul with no cameras and no microphones. I was like, I'm going to remember this for the rest of my life. I think we talked about, like, traffic and weather, but still it was. Of course it's RuPaul. And so I'm like, you know, he's asking me questions about my work and talking about drag. And I just. Moments like that, you're so, like, frozen where Something like that happens, and the moment you're like, this is gonna be burned into my memory forever.

[Keke Palmer]

And I feel like you and Ru remind me of each other in the same sense, where, obviously, you see all this glitz, all this glamour, but there's also such a serious focus, and, like, I have a vision for my life, get into it vibe that I really also live for. Like, there's just this where I feel like I haven't known Ru for a long time or had a lot of big conversations, but I could just tell Ru always been Ru and knew who he was and what he wanted to be. Did you feel like it was the same for you? Because I feel like your vision to me seems so clear. Everything you've carried out has been so pointed.

[Trixie Mattel]

I mean, I think delusion helps, right? And drag, please have, like, no shortage of delusion. But I think, like, one of my, maybe in some scenarios, worst traits, but sometimes it's a good trait. You can't really tell me anything, and so sometimes I should be listening to people, but sometimes that part of your brain that's supposed to develop that says, maybe you shouldn't do that, or, like, I don't, like, do. I don't have that. So I just, like, if I think it's a good idea, I get so, like, horny for it and whipped up and start figuring, like, I really say I'm gonna do something, and then, like, don't do it.

[Keke Palmer]

No, no. That is, like, no.

[Trixie Mattel]

And I go so crazy. Like, when I started DJing during COVID I always wanted to learn. And then Covid happened. I was like, well, you're stuck in your house. You have no reason not to learn. It was like, I just was, like, went out, bought all the equipment I could buy, set it all up in my living room like a little club, and just played for hours and hours and every day, because if I want to do something, I'm. I'm going to do it. Maybe that's the part of Rue that I really admire. Iggy. I'm obsessed with RuPaul.

[Keke Palmer]

Me too. Babes.

[Trixie Mattel]

She is everything. And, like, the older I get in drag, I'm 35. RuPaul's, you know, a lot older than me. 60s. You said it, not me.

[Keke Palmer]

And, I mean, she's 30.

[Trixie Mattel]

She's 30. And the longer I've been in this industry, I just can't believe how impressive it is.

[Keke Palmer]

It is.

[Trixie Mattel]

She's had a career this long. And not to mention for a black man to put on a blonde wig.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, What I'm saying, the 90s is huge.

[Trixie Mattel]

And strut around legs up to the pussy and be like, and what.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Trixie Mattel]

And the tenacity of having this major career and a resurgence. And a resurgence. She's kind of the. No, I watched that Martha Stewart documentary, and they were talking about Martha Stewart being the mother of, like, Rebirth, and RuPaul's just like this. Who knew at this stage in her life she would kind of be, like, constantly in the reinvention? And, like, how many Emmys does she have?

[Keke Palmer]

I'm about to say Emmy after Emmy after Emmy. And when you just brought up that documentary, I don't know if there is. There probably already is, but there needs to be another one that really goes into depth, because, again, when you think about RuPaul, it's not just the talent and the entertainment, but it's that thing that I think we both also love. It's the branding. It's the overall, like, my name means more than just representing me. Like, RuPaul means something greater than that. I mean, and it's birthed itself into even a vehicle to support other drag queens, like RuPaul's Drag Queen.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yeah. And when I watch Drag Race, too, Like, we all watch for the contestants. Of course. It's fun to discover someone's drag that you like, but I'm gonna be honest. Like, I don't think enough of us realize how much we watch for RuPaul.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right, baby.

[Trixie Mattel]

We watch for RuPaul. I love all of us. I love the contestants. But you really watch for Ru. I mean, that so beautiful when you look like that, but you make the audience feel warm and fuzzy.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Trixie Mattel]

To look that cunty but not seem cunty is very amazing.

[Keke Palmer]

It's much fun.

[Trixie Mattel]

I think you do that.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. That's my. I mean, that is a dream. I don't know. Who doesn't want to be able to give, Like, I want to give you that perfect, beautiful, alchemized image and lean in and tell you some real shit, because I think that's, like, the vibe. You know what I mean? And so I feel like ru does that 100%. I mean, who does? It's just like, when I think about that scene and what was it? The Brady Bunch?

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, my God.

[Keke Palmer]

Where she was just being mothered down, you know, like, giving you what you need. That's what it has to be.

[Trixie Mattel]

And I guess that's a part of her I always try to, like, emulate, too. Is like, dressing like a fake person, but really trying to still tell the truth in some ways is. I don't know, it's like a. It's weird that you dress like a fake person and then really stick to the truth in some ways, I think that's.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, because it's kind of needed. And what I mean by that is, again, we're in the Matrix, Right. Whether you're online or whether you're in the walking world, people have ideas based off of who they'll listen to, based off of how that person is perceived. And how that person is perceived is often based off how they look. And so it's like, you don't want to think about it that way, and you don't want it to come from a superficial way. But when you do think about the fact that how I show up is going to make people listen to me more and you have something to say, then once you lean in, can't nobody stop you. Because I showed up looking like a supermodel, and now you feel like what I have to say is a value, and it actually is. So.

[Trixie Mattel]

It is. I mean, I also think, like, whether or not you agree with, like, you know, if you're going through a no makeup phase in your life, that's great. But what I like about drag is it's almost like it's the ultimate. Fake it till you make it. I think in drag, a lot of us dress like a tall, shapely, rich, young version of something.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Trixie Mattel]

We almost caricature, like, Americanized beauty standards. Sure. And we also accidentally really grab your attention because I do feel like if you see that little. Like, if you see a nipped waist or you see a long leg or you see long, glossy hair, you do go, like, what does she say? I want to hear what she said. You know? It's true.

[Keke Palmer]

It's absolutely true. Yeah, it is. I want to talk to you about something that I read when I was getting ready to talk to you about your relationship with your stepfather and how that's kind of how your name, Trixie came about, that he would kind of use that name to criticize you, but then you've clearly made it your own. So I don't know, just, like, what was that like, you know, growing up and how that made you. That word made you feel, and how you found your way to, like, taking the power back.

[Trixie Mattel]

Sure. So, like, my brain at this point is nothing but, like, a decoupage of RuPaul catchphrases. And, like, something RuPaul always says is that the universe gives you Stage directions. And I kind of do believe in that. I don't necessarily believe in everything's gonna happen. Cause to me, that incites a little bit of, I'm ready for someone to do something for me. You know what I mean? But the universe does go like, what do you think? Don't you think you should? And, you know, when I was younger, my stepdad would call me a Trixie whenever I was acting too feminine or too, you know, whatever. It's like a slur. Like a kind of old school slur. And then when I was 18, 19, and I was doing drag for the first time in the Rocky Horror Picture show at the Oriental Theater in Milwaukee, the character that I ended up getting was named Trixie. And so I felt like it was the universe give you a stage direction hinting to me. And so then, you know, it's crazy because, I mean, I really, at this point, forget that that was sort of the origin of the name. Because that name used to be such a. A huge problem for me. But now it's like that word is put clothes on my back and bought my mom a house. And, you know, it's. I love it. It take back the. Take back the night in a way Also, you know, RuPaul was taken. So I had to come up with something else.

[Keke Palmer]

What was your relationship like with your mom growing up? I mean, when you have somebody, I don't know if your mom is still married to that. Your stepfather or not. But growing up, you know, did she kind of of create that space for you to feel okay to be yourself? Like, how did you get to the point of actually even doing something like the Rocky Horror Picture show or leaning into who you are naturally when it was kind of so criticized early on?

[Trixie Mattel]

Well, you know, I come from a kind of a family of. In general, very excited. You know, I had a lesbian aunt, everybody. I mean, I know a lot of people have an experience of coming from a small town where they, you know, felt like their whole family didn't accept them. But on the whole, my whole family was so. And I'm such a hippie. Everybody was so cool with it.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Trixie Mattel]

And my stepdad actually passed away of alcoholism when I was in high school. So I feel a lot of people probably have to carry that into their adulthood a lot more. But for me, I didn't have to worry about that relationship. Like, I didn't have to go home and see that person for Christmas. You know, that type of thing.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Trixie Mattel]

But also, you know, the more I've opened up about that which when I was young and I was stupid enough to just spout off my personal life more freely, I've noticed that over the years, people, again, the more you like, are vulnerable and like my like golden rule has always been like, the more I'm just honest and vulnerable. People really feel that, yeah, it's, it's not ever really good to float, fake. Like just be honest. Even like in stand up or music or anything. I do. If you just like be honest, come from a place of what really has happened and what you really feel, it's kind of the only way to go.

[Keke Palmer]

Do you feel like everybody's equipped to do that? What I mean by that is like, like how you overcame that, I guess. You know what I mean? How does somebody get there?

[Trixie Mattel]

I don't know. I mean, for me, I'm at the point I just, I can't imagine my life without drag. I mean, this fake person that I got to use to explore parts of like my trauma or my sexuality or my sense of humor, become confident through somebody else, basically, like some masquerading as a funny, successful, confident person was my way of figuring out a way how to be a confident person. And I don't know how you would do that if you didn't have drag. Like, I don't. You have to probably do it the hard way. I feel like I took the easy way because drag just was my little rocket to that.

[Keke Palmer]

And I feel like also like, I love what you're saying because I relate to that in terms of entertainment, because regardless of the medium, anytime you have a personal relationship with, with something that also allows you to access yourself. Like it makes you constantly have to look at yourself in the mirror, literally or figuratively. It allows you to face things that you didn't know you needed to face. So it's really cool to just hear about that journey with you, with drag and how it allowed you to kind of take on some of those more heavier details of how you felt during those times. Or just even the vehicle of drag alone being a place to really have ownership over this aspect of yourself that was once so judged, you know, if not by, you know, clearly not by your whole family, but even just by this person that made you feel outside, that entering that door through drag, it allowed you to accept it all. Like, I feel very similarly about entertainment. Just, you know, my fears, my uncomfortableness with life and he. And just my experience as a person. I've always been very, very emotional feeling things in my family and sometimes they weren't emotionally available so for me, entertaining, making people present through my performances, it really has healed and helped me to understand people more because sometimes my character doesn't have the space. And then that makes me think about, oh, maybe that's what my parents were going through, or, oh, wait a minute, is this what I was dealing with? Oh, trauma, like the arts has always been a window into that for me too.

[Trixie Mattel]

I mean, I'm sure when you play someone else, but, you know, with drag, it kind of just plays someone else. You. I don't know you. I feel a lot more like, almost like. Especially with drag, it's almost like it's not me. And so let's just fling it out there and then I guess I don't know how I would have been that vulnerable without drag. That was just kind of how I did it. But I think that's probably how a lot of people do it, right?

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Trixie Mattel]

Their drag is their thing, however they. They do that. I guess also, I've always found that being honest with people where I'm from, like, when I turned 18 and moved to the city, Kiki, I knew I needed to, like, be shaken. I knew I, like, had this much of a scope of the world, and I knew pretty much one economic bracket of people. I knew one type of person. I knew one accent even. I knew, you know, I didn't have any friends that didn't look like me and work from my same world. You know, when you're from a small county in a small town, your whole world is in, like, a couple dozen miles. Your whole world and Rocky and like, joining an environment where it really wasn't about being gay. I mean, Rocky Horror wasn't like a gay environment. It was like goths and horror movie people and weirdos and freaks, like, putting on fake blood and glitter and running around screaming. It was just an environment for me to really flirt with, like, being myself without really being vulnerable. Because when you have a wig on and a bunch of, like, makeup and it's not you, so there's no accountability. You get to be like, oh, it's just for fun. It's just a character. But there's some parts of that that you are letting out and, like, debuting to yourself even.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. Yeah. I feel like every character that I've played has introduced me to a side of myself that I didn't realize that I had had. And yes, the freedom of the character gave me the opportunity to explore it every single time. And I did wholeheartedly. And some of the shit I kept, some of it I said well, now this need to be put to rest. But either way, you know, it was a journey of self exploration.

[Trixie Mattel]

Do you always know, like. I mean, I'm not like a real actor like you are. Do you always know how much something's gonna stick to you when you do something like that? Do you always know how much you're gonna do it and then feel it later? Or, like.

[Keke Palmer]

No. And it could be really bad, too. Yeah, I've heard that that's kind of scary. Yeah, it is, because you know what you're doing, but it's not like your emotions, these are fake emotions. Like, they're always real. Any emotion that you do, anything, any tear you drop, any anger that you have, your blood pressure really did get high. Like, everything really did happen. And so, you know, it can be. I mean, a lot of times, you know, there can be ptsd. I remember I did this one character in this movie called Alice. It was about a young woman in the 70s who discovers that she's been living on a plantation, that. That slavery has been abolished. Like, so basically, the slave master kept them there and made them believe that slavery had not been abolished. It's like a generational thing of holding her and her family there. So she ends up wandering off the plantation. She realizes she's in the 70s, and it's about her discovery of what it means to have freedom. And obviously, it was an exciting, you know, movie. I thought it was empowering. It was kind of had, like a black exploitation flair. Like, so there was so many different elements that I hadn't seen in the. But it was still a very heavy emotional theme. And after the movie, I really was going through it, like, in my house, living my life, crying and saying, oh, my gosh, like, my freedom is the freedom they didn't have. I didn't know that fucked with me like that. Like, I didn't know that epigenetically or just emotionally that that is trauma that is carried down and down and down. And when I actually approached that film, it gave me the opportunity to start digging into what that means. And so then I started looking at all of these things that I never looked at before the same way Alice did. And it's like that. It's just like. It's crazy how that happens. And I remember just being in my room being like, I'm about to be happy for Alice. And it's like, she's not real. But she is.

[Trixie Mattel]

But no but she is. She is.

[Keke Palmer]

It's so crazy. It's so crazy. So I love it because of that, but it is. And I have always had therapy. I think it's important. I think it's important in life. But I've always said this, especially for child entertainers, people that have been performing very young. You need therapy. It's too much going on. It's too much you dealing with that. You do need to get it out and work through some of that stuff. Because when you realize how fragile identity is, what do I mean by that? I could change who I am at a drop of a hat. If I decided tomorrow that I wanted to all of a sudden be really, really serious and reserved and just committed to it, then I could. So it's like when you realize that by doing all these characters and being someone new for a month or a week, it's easy to lose yourself, because who is yourself if being somebody else is that easy? And so, yeah, honest.

[Trixie Mattel]

I mean, for real, like, some days I feel like I'm totally different in drag. And my close friends will be like, oh, it's a totally different person. You walk different, you talk different. You're like, you know, it's. You smell different. It's. And then some days. Some days I'm like, well, the parts of the character that people connect to are the parts that are real. Your real sense of humor, your real experience of talking about what you did that day and your. Your real, you know, whatever. And so as much as you think the thing you're putting on is about the fake part of it, people only.

[Keke Palmer]

Connect with the real part of it, really, 1,000%. And it's really just you and all these different fonts. Like, I always just think about myself. Like, when I think about Keke Palmer or the work that I do as Keke Palmer, I think about, like, Keke Palmer the host, Keke Palmer the movie girl, Keke Palmer the act, the singer, Keke Palmer the author. Like, to me, it's like they all express a different side of me, but at the core, it's all me. I'm crafting it. You know what I mean? I think it's, like, interesting when you view yourself from that way. It feels to me really empowering. And it allows you to kind of not be afraid to go all these other places because. Cause you are always there.

[Trixie Mattel]

You're always there. And because you're driving, it's really hard to, like, see yourself driving the car because you're in the driver's seat, you know, like, and you're. I mean, I'm so stealing that. Like, it's just you in different Fonts. It really is. Because if it wasn't, people would turn you on and go, like, this bitch is bullshitting me.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Like, she just turned it. Like she's turned into a fake bitch. Like, who is doo Doo? Or whatever the hell you would call yourself.

[Trixie Mattel]

Right? Who is Doo Doo? That's the question.

[Keke Palmer]

Trixie, you are amazing. I live for a Virgo. To Virgo. Like, it just gives what it needs to give. But before I let you go, I'd like to play a game with you. It's called Mm. This one has a little sweetness to it. I always play a game with my guests. And this one, I'm gonna ask you romantic themed questions, and you just hit me with the answers. So that's it.

[Trixie Mattel]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, here we go. Your makeup is perfection. But what's the biggest red flag when it comes to dating? Like. Like, what's the romantic equivalent of smudged eyeliner? Ooh.

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, that's a. Woo.

[Keke Palmer]

Ooh.

[Trixie Mattel]

I have a lot of empathy for it, but I don't. People's. People's internalized homophobia. They. They. Ironically, you pretending you're, like, not like other gays or whatever, it's like you're wearing a big fucking red hat. You look so foolish. Like, again, therapy, accept it. Because, I mean, you have to be able to just, like, it's giving.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm not like the other girls.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yes, it's giving. Like, I'm not like other girls. It's like, but you are. And so the only one concerned with your gayness really is you. Because everyone else is pretty cool with it is like, you're being weird.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, but I have a lot of.

[Trixie Mattel]

Empathy for that process, for sure. You know, we'll meet you when you get there. But guys like that, it's always like, all right, this person is. This was a lovely first date and.

[Keke Palmer]

Last date and last.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. You've got this larger than life drag Persona, but what's the most basic thing about you when it comes to relationships? Like, are you a candlelit dinner type or Netflix and snacks sweatpants type?

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, I just love touching. I'm so. I love cuddling, holding hands when people are like, oh, I could. I could never get down with someone who's like, oh, we go to bed and we don't touch.

[Keke Palmer]

That's fucking nuts to me. If you don't touch me, I'm burning the house down, girl.

[Trixie Mattel]

I want to sleep in the chokehold. Give me, like, the, like, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

Like, like 100 degrees is fine.

[Trixie Mattel]

Totally fine. Totally fine. I'm Like, I to me, even if we had a fight, even if it's hot in the room, you better at least give me like two pinky toes. I need.

[Keke Palmer]

I need now the feet. I can. Yeah. Even if it's like, okay, upper body is too much. Gotcha. Them legs better touch.

[Trixie Mattel]

I could be the legs better touch. And I just say, if you're somebody who doesn't want to touch, that's fine. You'll just. You will find someone else who doesn't and you will have a beautiful, no touching relationship, you know? Okay, that's not me.

[Keke Palmer]

Biggest turnoff in the bedroom. Mine is too much. What is mine too serious. Boo. I don't want it to be serious. I'm that person that's like, I want to laugh in between. Like, I cannot do the. Yeah, yeah.

[Trixie Mattel]

It's like too, like. I don't know what that is.

[Keke Palmer]

That is scary. What is that?

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, you know what else? Like, when someone puts on like a. Like a. Like to me, people's idea of sex music is so corny boots. I'm like, what is. It's either like, you know, I don't want like pony genuine. I also don't want. I also don't want, like aggressive house music.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh my gosh. I feel you on entirely. I think what we're both talking about is a culmination of just like sex Persona. Like cliche sex Personas. Like, whether it's the super ultra sexy, like, yeah, you like what I'm doing, or if it's like ooz. Oomph. Oomph. Like, oh, yeah, ride with me. Like, I don't want any of the cliches that you done seen in some teen flick.

[Trixie Mattel]

That's the thing too. Like, please don't do what you saw in a movie. Don't do what you saw in porn.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's what it really is. The porn have to take over the minds. Nobody even knows what real sex is anymore. We need to Turn back on HBO's Real Sex Sex to find out.

[Trixie Mattel]

Girl, somebody. When. When you're in bed and someone's like, oh, do you like that? It's like, yeah, that's why we're here. Like, what do you mean, do I like. No, I hate it. I also, I mean, I also, you know, the state of the bedroom. I'm not saying it has to be a model home, but I've been with enough straight guys to know sometimes, you know, the white model. Okay, I want to see the sheet on the back. I want to see, you know, I Don't want that cracked in vibe. I want literally.

[Keke Palmer]

And it needs to look clean and pressed because who was here before me? Get this shit ready, girl.

[Trixie Mattel]

Wash the sheets.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. Are you Barbie looking for your Ken, or are you fine just living your Malibu dream solo?

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, I'm always in love and looking for love and wanting to love.

[Keke Palmer]

I know that's right. I always got it.

[Trixie Mattel]

I just. I love to connect. I. I have so many friends who are loners. I think a lot of my close friends are kind of loners, and that's fine. But for me, I just. It's hard for me to not, you know, go on a date, feel the feeling, and I want to know what happens next. I want that second, third date. If I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it. I don't understand. Like, he's really nice. We really like each other, but it's just not right now.

[Sharon Palmer]

You know?

[Keke Palmer]

We have this rap, too, by the way. Trixie. We have this rap Virgos do of just, like, always being, like, in love and, like, you know, building out a storyline. We love to build out a storyline, honey. Yes, I live for a movie of my life.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yes. I'm always, like, looking for. You know, I've had all great boyfriends in my life, and it's always been because I'm open to it.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay?

[Trixie Mattel]

I'm open to what's coming, so I.

[Keke Palmer]

Know that's right, girl. Okay, let me wrap this up. Last one. Hmm. If Trixie had a Tinder biological, what would it say?

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, my gosh. Drake said a Tinder bio. Oh, Tinder. Oh, well, you know, I've been on Tinder. I think Tinder's fun. I think it used to be more datey, and I think it's more hookupy now.

[Keke Palmer]

It's so hookupy now.

[Trixie Mattel]

But I think it used to be more date y. And I can tell you my Tinder bio used to be, Oh, I love comedy and I love to collect guitars, which was true and very boring. So I wouldn't recommend that.

[Keke Palmer]

So vertical of you. I know we love to play, like, so boring. We're not playing, but we love to be like, oh, I'm so grounded. But then when you get into our world, it's nothing but chaos, girl.

[Trixie Mattel]

That's the thing. Like, I'm such a bait and switch because I'm like, I like to have my life together, but you might see me crying today, you know? Like, I don't know. But I also think when someone's bio is, like, pressed to start or some shit. I'm like, no, Too cheeky.

[Keke Palmer]

It's too much. Too slutty. Yeah. Mine was always super grounded, too. Like, I was on Hinge for a second. It was like, hey, my name is Lauren. I'm just here to meet people and hopefully find a connection. Hope you had a good day.

[Trixie Mattel]

Like, girl, you know, that's a little too. That's a little too, like. I don't know what that is.

[Keke Palmer]

Eat fray, Lauren. I'm a nice person. Yes. It's so. Like, I'm nice.

[Trixie Mattel]

Yeah, That's a little like, are you interested in unique men with a warm heart and a fun point of view? Click here. Like, what are you selling? Girl, that's wild.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's why nobody clicked my shit.

[Trixie Mattel]

And then when they did, they were the killer. Wendy Williams says the killer because they were like. Well, she seems like, I don't know, a little naive. Yeah, I guess. I don't know exactly. Girl, we got. We gotta get together. We gotta work out the bios. I do think sometimes it's good to let a friend write it. Maybe that's helpful.

[Keke Palmer]

That's what people always say. And, I mean, it's funny because when I'm the friend writing it, I'm killing this. You know what I'm saying? But when it's me, I. I end up being just too, like, literal, laid back. And like, girl, when the really should be like, virgo, holla at me. You know what I'm saying? It should have been just more like, hey, right?

[Trixie Mattel]

I think if I could write my friends, I think I would go too hard. I'd be like, ladies and gentlemen. Like, I would. I would make them seem like the main event. And then mine is like, hello, would you like to hang out? You know, girl, I don't know. But also, you don't want to oversell yourself, because then it's like, look how great I am.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I mean, it's like, look how great I am. But I want you to see that in the pictures. I don't want to have to tell you. I want it to just be obvious, you know?

[Trixie Mattel]

Absolutely. Well, do you, like. Do you link your socials? Because I think when people link their social media, but it's private, I think that's straight to jail. Yeah, that's crazy to me. Here's my Instagram. You click it and it's private. What?

[Keke Palmer]

It's like, did you come in and look for love or followers? Cause I'm not following your ass.

[Trixie Mattel]

You take your pants off and there's Another set of pants under there. Like, what are we doing?

[Keke Palmer]

The worst one is Raya, hands down.

[Trixie Mattel]

That's what I've heard. Because I heard that it's not location based.

[Keke Palmer]

And it's very like, at this point, motherfuckers going on Raya to get a job. Like, it's like networking. Like, it's seriously, like, cliquey, networky. Like, people are not really going to find love. And that's my whole thing is like, why is you on here? That's why I think that match.com had it right. $400, please. Like, if you're charging people, then they're maybe gonna be more serious. Like, it should get to a point where if somebody really wants to be on a love website, they should be paying real big fee. Because now everything is just so fake. Like, and people really do want love and connection. It's so sad.

[Trixie Mattel]

Do you get, like, I had been banned from Grindr before for they thought I was a catfish. That's happened to me a few times. Do people think you're fake on the Internet?

[Keke Palmer]

So the one time that I was on, well, when I was on Raya, they confirmed it. She. So that you know what I mean? But when I did Hinge, I felt like that's why people didn't click my page because I felt like they were like, oh, she's a catfish. I didn't get banned, but I felt like I really didn't get many hit ups.

[Trixie Mattel]

I used to say to people, they'd be like, obviously a catfish. And I'd be like, why would somebody pretend to be a 35 year old bald cross dresser? And they're like, fair. How are you? You know, so sometimes like, you know, well, I love you so much. This is such a blessing.

[Keke Palmer]

Literally. This is amazing. You're really inspirational on all accounts. I need me a little Kiki motel. So, you know I'm a Holly.

[Trixie Mattel]

Oh, my God.

[Keke Palmer]

Totally.

[Trixie Mattel]

And can I tell you, I don't want to be corny. Congratulations on having, like the number one film for probably the millionth time in your life.

[Keke Palmer]

Congratulations. This is like a really magical moment with One of Them Days because it's an original ip, it's a comedy. You know, I got to do it with Sza and Issa. So it's like, I really appreciate that and receive that. It's a special one for sure.

[Trixie Mattel]

It's just like, sit down and stare into the sky and just like, enjoy it. This is yours. You did this.

[Keke Palmer]

Thank you, Trixie. I'm sending you all the love in the world.

[Trixie Mattel]

Well, I'm sure I'll see you around again. Let's make it a habit, okay?

[Keke Palmer]

I think so.

[Trixie Mattel]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Bye. I'm not gonna hold you. Talking to Trixie was a moment I lived for, every second of it. And, I mean, if there's one thing I'm gonna walk away with, I. I think is that we've all faced criticism, right? But it's what you do with it that matters. I mean, Trixie took something that was meant to tear her down and turned it, amongst other things, into the foundation of her empire. That self love is on a whole nother level. And on that note, y'all keep shining, keep loving on yourselves, keep turning those critiques into crowns, and I'll see you next time. Because you know it's your girl. Baby this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Keke Palmer. Yeah, enjoy. Baby this is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby this is Keke Palmer early and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Baby, this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Seagal is our post producer. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for Team Keke. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonda. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candace Manriquez. RIN. Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Louis.