What if we trained surgeons to recover from complications, not just avoid them? In this BackTable OBGYN episode, Dr. Joseph Chen, a complex benign gynecologic surgeon at Kaiser Permanente and certified surgical coach, joins host Dr. Nicole Faulkner to explore how surgeons process and recover from complications.

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Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction
01:15 - Dr. Chen’s Origin Story
06:34 - Coaching Framework
08:08 - Second Victim Phenomenon
10:10 - Four Phases Of Stress
15:07 - Managing OR Chaos
19:22 - Delegation as Surgeons
22:11 - Peer Review Programs
25:09 - How Coaching Programs Work
30:52 - Timeline After Complications
33:16 - Avoiding The Advice Trap
35:37 - Debriefing With Residents
40:51 - Future of Coaching and AI
47:13 - Resolution of Complic

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More about this episode

Dr. Chen reflects on a serious complication during his fellowship that exposed an “emotional gap” in surgical training beyond technical solutions. This experience shaped his focus on psychological safety, crisis-management frameworks, and supportive coaching. He outlines the phases following an adverse event, from the initial chaos and cognitive overload to reflection, identity challenges, and resolution. Do these factors influence whether one experiences burnout, survival or growth.
This episode also recommends practical strategies such as focused breathing, effective delegation, and simulation training to improve performance under pressure. Dr. Chen discusses the “second victim” phenomenon, reviews data on surgeons’ emotional responses after complications, and emphasizes the importance of allowing time before debriefing. They advocate for peer support, non-punitive systems, and coaching programs to improve surgeon well-being, patient safety, and operating room efficiency. Finally, they explore future roles for AI and video review in surgical learning.

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Resources

Medical error: the second victim. The doctor who makes the mistake needs help too
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10720336/

Dare to Lead by Brené Brown
https://brenebrown.com/book/dare-to-lead/

Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown
https://brenebrown.com/book/atlas-of-the-heart/

The Advice Trap by Michael Bungay Stanier
https://www.mbs.works/advice-trap-book/#purchase-options

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BackTable OBGYN is the go-to podcast for gynecologists, gynecologic surgeons, and other healthcare professionals focused on women’s health.
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