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Bad On Paper
2025 Reading Preview Part 2
01:17:40
It’s time for Part 2 of our 2025 reading preview! We invited some friends of the pod to chat about the books they’re most excited to pick up this year! Picks - (Out August 26), Picks - , (Out September 30). Her Novel, is...
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- [00:18]
Becca Freeman
Hi everyone. Welcome back to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Becca Freeman.
- [00:21]
Olivia Mentor
And I'm Olivia mentor.
- [00:23]
Becca Freeman
And today it is our second, second half of the year reading preview episode. And we have some very exciting book recommenders today. I'm very excited to share these mini interviews.
- [00:34]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, each of them was so much fun and the variety of picks every time. I am just amazed at the wide range of genres, topics, everything, truly.
- [00:46]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, I always hear about books that I've never heard of before in these.
- [00:50]
Olivia Mentor
Well, let's get into some highs and lows before we get into the picks. You have a huge high.
- [00:55]
Becca Freeman
I finished. I filed.
- [00:57]
Olivia Mentor
Share with us your good news.
- [00:58]
Becca Freeman
I filed my draft. It is in.
- [01:00]
Olivia Mentor
Congratulations. How does it feel? Tell us everything.
- [01:03]
Becca Freeman
Honestly, right now I. I just feel brain dead. This has taken a lot out of me, especially this week. Going really hard at kind of doing a second pass. So I don't feel like. I feel as excited as I should. I right now kind of just feel like a zombie.
- [01:20]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, it's a. It's a lot of mental effort to read that much, write that much, and then do a strange combination of both at all times. So I salute you. I'm so happy for you and I hope you can just relax now and not think about it for a bit.
- [01:39]
Becca Freeman
I'm so happy it's in and I'm really looking forward to next week and kind of having. I don't know when my editor will get notes back to me, but I know that I have at least a week, probably much more. But I'm very excited to have a week to catch up on everything that has slipped.
- [01:55]
Olivia Mentor
Are you planning on taking a mini staycation or just kind of not putting any pressure on yourself to work to the extent that you did these past few weeks?
- [02:04]
Becca Freeman
Neither. I mean, I still am gonna do newsletter stuff. We still have the podcast, so I'm just taking the book stuff off of my plate. But I do have in mind some daytime adventures that I would like to have. Let myself play hooky for like half a day. I'd really like to see the Sargent exhibit at the. I think I'm gonna play pickleball one mid morning. So yeah, I'll definitely go easy on myself.
- [02:28]
Olivia Mentor
Good. Well, enjoy. I can't wait to hear more updates.
- [02:33]
Becca Freeman
What is yours?
- [02:35]
Olivia Mentor
Oh, mine, mine. Okay. This is a really niche thing I've been doing. Well, I mean, not niche, I don't know. So I love watching Real Housewives as you know, and usually on planes, but. But I've been finding myself really working very hard lately. And then at the end of the day, I just don't want to think about anything. I want to zone out in the specific way that Real Housewives allows me to zone out. However, if I turn it on after dinner and I sit on the couch, I'm there for hours. And we know that I'm not trying to do this. So what I've been doing is I can see out of my shower. It's like glass. So I play Real Housewives on my phone, and while I'm showering, I just watch it. And it's like, while I'm getting ready and stuff. It's just there, and it's so relaxing. I have to tell you, it's just this moment of zoning out where I don't feel like my whole day is wasted on, you know, I'm watching Potomac right now, which I think is a weak franchise, if I'm honest, but it's the perfect little brain vacation.
- [03:38]
Becca Freeman
I'm happy for you. I'm happy that you figured out this routine and how to do two things you love at once. Well, I assume you like showering. I don't know.
- [03:46]
Olivia Mentor
I was like, do I have I have I talked about my love of showering? I mean, I do love showering. It's a nice thing to do. Yeah. So I don't know. That was just something that brought me some joy this week.
- [03:56]
Becca Freeman
But on the flip side, what is your low?
- [04:00]
Olivia Mentor
Well, my low is that I had a few nights where I just didn't sleep very well, but then I saw your low, and I was like, first of all, probably related to my low in some way and also much more important. So I, I, I cede my low to your low because we do share it, so.
- [04:18]
Becca Freeman
Well, I, I mean, my low is just the state of the world right now. I feel like I am overwhelmed by how much bad stuff is happening simultaneously. Watching footage of the ICE raids that are happening. I mean, especially in la, but other places, too. Like, a senator got arrested yesterday on the Senate floor, which is terrifying. We're recording this on Friday, so who knows what is happening, but, like, Israel and Iran are maybe at war. I am feeling very overwhelmed, and I'm also feeling guilty. I haven't done anything. I haven't donated, I haven't marched. I haven't done a damn thing. I have just been in my own world finishing this draft, and I feel, I guess, like, helpless is. Yeah, helpless is kind of the word. Like, I need to get some sleep and become a human again and then figure out how I can contribute positively to any of this. But I'm right now feeling pretty distraught and overwhelmed.
- [05:25]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, it's very bleak. It is highly disturbing. The footage of the ICE raids, the senator, all of that is just so deeply upsetting. There's also the sense that we have consumed so much darkness for so long that there is a real. It's not numbness. It's just like. It's like paralysis, you know, it's like this is the worst it's ever been. And I'm like. But it's felt like that for so many years.
- [05:54]
Becca Freeman
Yeah.
- [05:55]
Olivia Mentor
And so it's hard to really linger, I guess, on, like, how utterly horrible it is. I don't know. I'm not forming any coherent thoughts either, but I'm with you. It's terrible. Maybe we create a thread or a space in the Geneva group and. Or the Facebook group, where if you are in LA or you work in an organization that is doing something to fight back or push back or resist against what is happening right now. And do you think it should have more eyes on it, that we should be more aware of it? Maybe we'll. We'll create that space. And if I come across anything, I will be sure to share it as well. I could always be better about that on. On my platforms.
- [06:37]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.
- [06:38]
Olivia Mentor
Well, let's take a quick ad break, and then we will talk about some books. This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. One thing that I absolutely love about living upstate is that summer feels like it stretches on for a much longer time than it ever did when I lived in Florida. I can be outside in June and July and August and not feel like I am going to die of heat stroke every single day. And this is why I really believe in investing in our outdoor areas and making them feel as comfortable as the rooms inside of our house. If you're looking to spruce up your own outdoor areas this summer, Wayfair can help you create the space for space of your dreams.
- [07:22]
Becca Freeman
And Wayfair has literally everything. They have outdoor seating for gatherings. They have gazebos, pergolas, even hot tubs. I'm definitely Team Olivia should get a hot tub as well as outdoor dining essentials and general decor. You know, the fun stuff. So your patio cushions, planters, umbrellas, rugs, literally anything you could need to create your ideal outdoor space.
- [07:44]
Olivia Mentor
Wayfair really does have something for every single space and every single budget. When Jake and I had a much smaller patio area in Philly, Wayfair was the first place that I looked to find the items that would just fit that specific space and those dimensions. So don't wait. Make your outdoor space your dream oasis today with Wayfair and enjoy it all summer long. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop a huge outdoor selection that's W a Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [08:22]
Becca Freeman
All right, Olivia, why don't we start with your book picks? What two picks have you brought to the class today?
- [08:30]
Olivia Mentor
I have brought two picks that I have not read but I am excited about. One of them you can purchase right now and the other one will be out shortly. So if you need something immediately, two great options for you. So the first one is what Kind of Paradise By Janelle Brown. And the pitch for this one is.
- [08:49]
Becca Freeman
Everywhere the past couple of weeks.
- [08:51]
Olivia Mentor
Yes, it is a book of the month pick. It's gotten some wonderful reviews. The blurbs are great. The COVID is stunning. I personally love it. This is about a teenage girl who breaks free from her father's world of isolation to discover that her whole life is a lie. And Rachel Kong, who wrote Real Americans, said that this is a twisty, sharp coming of age story for our strange techno utopian times. So I think this has a lot to do from the reviews I've read with Teck, and I love the premise so much. It's set in the wilderness of Montana, so I'm sure that it's beautiful and really atmospheric, which is definitely an important box to tick off for me. And it seems like a perfect summer read in my opinion.
- [09:39]
Becca Freeman
Okay, what's the second one that you brought?
- [09:41]
Olivia Mentor
Oh, the second one. The second one I'm really, really looking forward to, which is the Compound by Ashlynn Rawl.
- [09:49]
Becca Freeman
Yes, this is. This is very you. I cannot. Wow.
- [09:55]
Olivia Mentor
I. I have it pre ordered. I'm waiting anxiously for it to show up at my door. So this one follows Lily, who is a bored, beautiful 20 something and wakes up on a remote desert compound alongside 19 other contestants competing on a massively pop show. So to win, she must outlast her housemates to stay in the compound the longest while competing in challenges for luxury rewards like champagne and lipstick, plus communal necessities to outfit their new home like food, appliances and a front door. And as the story goes on, the stakes and the competition get more intense and the things that they are required to do get more disturbing. And oh man, does this sound like my perfect book in so many ways. I cannot wait to read this.
- [10:45]
Becca Freeman
That sounds very, very you. I'm excited to hear what you think after you read.
- [10:49]
Olivia Mentor
Have you read it?
- [10:50]
Becca Freeman
No, but I've looked at it a few times for different roundups or things that I've put together. So it's on my radar.
- [10:57]
Olivia Mentor
It's definitely one that I will be opening up the second it arrives at my door. Cause I'm that excited about it.
- [11:03]
Becca Freeman
Well, let's hear what some other folks have to recommend. We are so excited to have Lauren Puckett Pope with us. She is a staff culture writer at Elle magazine, where she primarily covers books, TV and film. She's based in New York City and currently working on her first novel. And you can find her on Instagram and TikTok Lorpuckett. Welcome, Lauren.
- [11:29]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Hello. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited for this.
- [11:33]
Becca Freeman
Well, we are equally excited to hear what you brought for us. So kick us off with your first book.
- [11:38]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Okay. So as many of my friends and fellow readers already know about me, I am a big fantasy reader, but not so much, you know, romantasy or high fantasy, though there are certainly books in those genres that I love. But I really adore what is often referred to as, like, grounded fantasy. You know, it's usually a little more upmarket or literary veering toward magical realism sometimes. And it basically, like, give me a real world setting with a little sprinkle of magic, and I am in.
- [12:07]
Becca Freeman
Wait, it's like, magical humans as opposed to, like, magical creatures? Is that the distinction?
- [12:11]
Lauren Puckett Pope
It's more, yes. But also, like, if it's set in, like, a real place, like New York City, but with, like, magic or like, something that is sort of like the contours of the world itself are familiar, but there's a twist. Like, that's always my favorite thing, where it feels like. I had an author describe it to me once as, like, it's the kind of story where, like, you feel like you could walk outside and, like, it could happen to you. You know, like, you don't always, except for when you're a kid, maybe, like, feel like you can, you know, walk outside and immediately be in Narnia. But, like, you do have, you know, everyone kind of, kind of wishes and wonders. Like, you know, what. What if there is magic? What if they're actually, you know, what if there is? And that. I just. I love that so much. That's my favorite. But I say that, and there are plenty of, like, high fantasies and, like, you know, fantasy lands that I absolutely love. So I'm not discriminating.
- [13:14]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so I interrupted you.
- [13:16]
Morgan Pager
No, you're fine.
- [13:17]
Becca Freeman
What book were you gearing up to tell us about.
- [13:19]
Lauren Puckett Pope
So, okay, first one is Katabasis by RF Kuang. I have learned that, I believe that is the proper pronunciation.
- [13:28]
Olivia Mentor
That's good to know because this is very high on my list. And I was just gonna go, just pure gut instinct. And so I'm gonna have, have this to, to sort of guide me now.
- [13:38]
Lauren Puckett Pope
I've heard a lot of different renditions.
- [13:42]
Becca Freeman
I feel like I wanna call it Katabasis based on like Calabasas, where the Kardashians live. Yes, exactly, exactly.
- [13:50]
Lauren Puckett Pope
I believe it is Katabasis.
- [13:53]
Olivia Mentor
Okay, okay.
- [13:55]
Lauren Puckett Pope
So we can, you know, say that a few times fast. So I think I read this book back in January. It might have been my first read of the year actually. I was so hungry to get my hands on it.
- [14:08]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, this is a status arc right now. I feel like.
- [14:10]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, wow, that's an early, early, early copy. I'm very impressed and jealous.
- [14:15]
Lauren Puckett Pope
I, I, I swear that was not intended as a flex, but I was very happy to get it early because I like, I've been looking forward to this book for a long time. I, Kuang's Yellowface. What was that two years ago, I think. And then Babel before that. Both books that I found really thought provoking and I really enjoyed the conversations that resulted from those books.
- [14:38]
Becca Freeman
So what is this one about?
- [14:40]
Lauren Puckett Pope
So it is about these two graduate students of magic at Cambridge University who decide to journey down into hell to save their professor after one of these students accidentally sent him there. The bulk of the book is indeed set in hell, but it's this perplexing and unusual and thought provoking version of hell. I don't think it's a very like traditional, you know, fire and brimstone sort of take on it. It is woven through with the protagonist's own perceptions as well as these like, ancient ideas of hell, you know, that we get from T.S. eliot and Dante's Inferno and the Bible, among others. And so it's about these two characters as they're journeying to find their professor, but it's also about their love story, which is probably the part of the book that feels the most accessible. And I think, you know, Rebecca, the author was really smart to kind of have that be like a, like a guiding light through the book. And yeah, I don't know. There's so much about this book that I found really fascinating and I think is going to be polarizing in a good way, in an interesting way. They both, you know, use magic. These, these characters both use magic to get into hell and navigate it. But the magic itself is also very unexpected. It's, like, built from logic puzzles and mathematical theory, which might sound really dry, and frankly, in real life, it probably is, but I don't know. I found that it really effectively underscored the, like, convoluted web that is academia. And that's ultimately, like, a lot of what Kuang is critiquing here is the institution of academia. And then you also have this really charming love story on top of it. So I think it's gonna be a really interesting summer book.
- [16:40]
Becca Freeman
So if listeners are familiar with Kuang's previous fantasy novels, so Babel or the Poppy wars, is this gonna feel familiar to them, or is this something totally different? Because based on the pitch, it sounds quite different than either of her previous fantasy books or series.
- [16:57]
Lauren Puckett Pope
It's definitely very different. I would say that it shares the most DNA with Babel in that it is, you know, a magical story that is set at a, you know, Ivy League university, but it's also not really set at Cambridge. That's sort of just like, the starting point. And then, of course, we spend the most time in hell, as insane as that sounds. But I do think it has a lot of the similar, like, messaging of Babel. I think it will feel the most familiar to readers of Babel, but the takeaways from it are very different. The character's journey is very different. It's also more contemporary than Babel. Babel. This one, Katabasis, is set, I believe, in the 80s, and so it just has a very different feel. But I think, as I said, it is most closely aligned with Babel than with Rebecca's other stuff.
- [17:57]
Olivia Mentor
Good to know, because I read Babel and Yellowface, but I'm like, a Yellowface super fan.
- [18:04]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Oh, really?
- [18:04]
Olivia Mentor
And I liked Babel, but Yellowface really did it for me.
- [18:08]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Yellowface did it for me too. I mean, we could get into all of my, like, thoughts about these books. Like, something I really, really enjoy about Rebecca's work is that even if I have things that I'm kind of like, oh, I don't know about this, or, like, I'm not sure this is working for me. She always builds worlds that, like, challenge me and that make me ask a lot of questions, and she doesn't always answer them. Sometimes she does, and sometimes maybe she even answers them too much. But I love the questions that she brings up in her work. I think they're really intelligent. And that's. That's how I felt with Yellowface of, you know, obviously, especially for Those of us who are embedded in some way or another in publishing. It's very, very juicy and interesting.
- [18:54]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, I'm with you. I totally agree.
- [18:56]
Becca Freeman
All right, Lauren, tell us what the next book you brought for us is.
- [19:00]
Lauren Puckett Pope
The next one is actually coming out tomorrow.
- [19:07]
Olivia Mentor
I don't know what you're gonna say. Sorry. I want to know if it's the. This book I can't stop thinking about. Anyway, go ahead.
- [19:12]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Oh, wait, Now I'm excited. Okay. Well, I hope I don't disappoint you with this one, but it is Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil by V E Schwab. And of the books of Victoria's that I've read, and to be clear, I have not read all of them, but of the ones I have read, Bury Our Bones is my favorite by a not insignificant margin. I really think it might be her best. It has a lot of tropes that one might expect from the fantasy genre. You know, it's a vampire story. There's plenty of blood and grave dirt to go around. But it's also this saga of three queer women. Each of them become vampires at different periods throughout history, and they have to grapple with their queerness and with their. Their desire for independence as women, especially in, like, you know, more historical periods. They have to grapple with their desires in a very literal sense as well as, you know, more figurative ones. They have to grapple with their ethics. You know, what does it look like to live as someone who feeds on, you know, human beings as well as, you know, like, having their marginalized identities and kind of where to draw the lines between these things? They feed, they fall in love, but more than anything, they really try to find their place in a world that doesn't seem to want to understand them or want them. And I think Victoria handles that subject with this sort of dual anger and tenderness that I think really will resonate with readers. So I'm really excited to see what people think of this one. From what I've seen, it's been getting really good reviews so far, and I really enjoyed it a lot, so hopefully others will, too.
- [21:02]
Becca Freeman
Olivier, are you going to spoil for us what the book was? Because it wasn't that. Because I know you haven't read that.
- [21:07]
Olivia Mentor
It wasn't that. But I haven't read the other one either. It's about to arrive. I pre ordered it, but every review I read of it, I'm so excited. It's the Compound.
- [21:16]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Have you heard of this? Yeah, I literally have you read it? I have not I literally brought it home from the office. I have my enormous stack of galleys that I keep at the office because otherwise I would. I would drown in my apartment. But I specifically brought that one home on Friday. I'm only in the office on certain days, so I knew I wasn't going to be back for a few days. And I brought that one home because I was like, I want to dive into this one asap. It looks and sounds so good. I've heard amazing things about it. I cannot wait. So there's a bonus recommendation right there. The. The compound.
- [21:50]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, that might. That might be one of mine. I don't know where in the episode this Will slide, but yeah, I'm. I'm probably going to start reading it right when I get it. Such good reviews. But I've also seen some great reviews of the book you mentioned. I always forget the title. You just said it.
- [22:04]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil. I've heard a lot of people refer to it just as Bury Our Bones or amongst the folks in the know, just bones, because it is quite a mouthful. It comes from something in the book and the title makes sense when. When you get to that point, but it is definitely a bit of a mouthful of a title. But, yeah, I. I enjoyed it and. And that one's even more. Yeah, I'm not like the biggest vampire gal in the world in terms of just like that trope. There's vampire books that I love, love, love, love, love, love. I really enjoyed, like Immortal Dark last year. But, you know, it's not as if I'm like, oh, my God, all I ever want to read are vampire books. But I thought this one did it in. In a way that. That was pretty interesting. So, yeah, those are my. I could give you a whole. Here are my literary recommendations and here are my mystery recommendations. But I decided I'd stick with the theme of fantasy today.
- [23:05]
Olivia Mentor
Well, people can follow you all the places and get more of your picks, Right. So if you could just tell people where they can find you and follow all of your great picks, that would be. That would be so great.
- [23:18]
Lauren Puckett Pope
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Yes. If you are interested in all of the recommendations across every type of genre, not just fantasy, you can find my work@elle magazine, elle.com. and you can also find me personally on Instagram and TikTok and threads and, you know, everywhere at Lorel A U R Pucket. He is in Paul. And I usually post all of my, you know, book stories and book recommendations on socials as well, so. Yeah, I love, love, love sharing recommendations and I love when recommendations are shared with me. So I am very honored to be part of this.
- [24:02]
Becca Freeman
For our next guest, we are so excited to have Morgan Pager with us. Friend of the pod, past guest. Morgan is a publishing professional and the content creator behind NYC Book Girl. A graduate of Duke University, she lives on the Upper west side with her husband and their cat. And her debut novel, the Art of vanishing, comes out July 1st. Morgan, welcome.
- [24:23]
Morgan Pager
Thank you.
- [24:25]
Clemence Michelin
So excited to be back.
- [24:26]
Becca Freeman
We're so excited to hear about what you have to recommend, but we're also very excited to hear about your own book. This is big move since you've last been on.
- [24:34]
Clemence Michelin
I know. Yeah. Big book summer. It's my author era.
- [24:37]
Becca Freeman
I love this. Well, before we get to your book, tell us what you have brought today for show and tell.
- [24:42]
Clemence Michelin
Okay, so I have two books to recommend. One I've read, one I have on my tbr. The first is My Train Leaves at three by Natalie Guerrero.
- [24:53]
Becca Freeman
I have been hearing this come up over and over in the past two weeks, maybe.
- [24:59]
Clemence Michelin
Oh, I'm so glad because I've started evangelizing it even before I got to sit down and read it. This weekend. I was connected by our friend Becky Charleston, who's also a writer, to Natalie because we share a pub month and we're both debuts in July, and Becky is a great connector of people. So I met Natalie before I read the book, and then as soon as she started to describe it, I was like, this is for me. And it's about a young woman named Chiomara who is, I think, in her late 20s, early 30s, living in Washington Heights. And she is a wannabe actress and performer, but she's also grieving the loss of her sister and trying to find her voice and her place in the performing world amidst all that grief. And it's so New York City. Y and I love a New York City book, and I love a book set in the performing world. And you can tell that Natalie actually knows what she's talking about. She knows how to describe the world of auditions and the world of renting rehearsal spaces. And the main character is a singing waiter at Ellen's Stardust Diner, which obviously has been a big part of my life. My first job in New York was in the theater industry, and I worked in an office above Ellen's, So I walked by it every single day, multiple times a day, and I just, I love it so much. It's so perfectly messy and beautiful and sad, and I'm so Obsessed with our main character. I just never wanna let her go. I have like 50 pages left and I'm sad it's gonna end when I finish it tonight.
- [26:26]
Becca Freeman
I feel like that's the best compliment about a book when you are actively trying to not finish it because you know that you then have to let the character go at the end.
- [26:35]
Clemence Michelin
Exactly. I read I devoured 150 pages of it on Saturday and then I've been kind of slowly trailing my way through it. But I do need to know what's going to happen because there are some nefarious characters around her and I want her to stay safe from them. So. But also I want her to get what she wants.
- [26:53]
Becca Freeman
And what genre are we calling this? Is this kind of a coming of age? Is this romance literary? Where are we?
- [27:00]
Clemence Michelin
I'd say it's literary fiction. It's coming of age. But I feel like oftentimes coming of age is pitched as being younger, like people in their late teens, early 20s, which is just not my experience with when you actually come of age. As a 30 year old woman myself, I feel like it is really about her figuring it out. But yes, definitely. For our literary fiction readers listening.
- [27:23]
Olivia Mentor
And what is the second book you've brought us today?
- [27:25]
Clemence Michelin
Okay, second book is Along Came Amor by Alexis Daria. It is the third book in a romance trilogy called the Primas of Power. But I think they can all be read as standalones because I've read the first two and I'm sure you could read the second one without having read the first one. The first book in this series you had me at Hola was one of my favorite romance novels I've ever, ever, ever read. I feel like it was one of my gateway drugs into becoming a big romance reader and I will just do anything Alexis Daria says to do.
- [27:56]
Becca Freeman
Well, I feel like listeners here, that book should sound familiar because we did this as a book club book when it came out, which was.
- [28:03]
Clemence Michelin
I love that.
- [28:04]
Becca Freeman
2021, maybe?
- [28:05]
Clemence Michelin
I think so. 2021 and 2022. Yeah. So everyone listening who read that one, get back on board because we're in it for the third one. I've been known to listen to her books in or read her books in a single day. Last year I listened to Take the Lead, which is set in a fictional Dancing with the Stars kind of universe.
- [28:23]
Becca Freeman
Which is outside of this series.
- [28:25]
Clemence Michelin
Outside of the series in 12 hours as I did an entire puzzle which was my ideal version of Sunday. I can't wait to be back into this one and they're all kind of famous person, normal person romances. It looks like this one is Normal Person Billionaire, which I like very selectively. I loved the new Kennedy Ryan playing your romance and I think this one will also really hit. So I'm very excited to read that one. And it came out two weeks ago, so it's out now for anyone who wants to read it.
- [28:55]
Becca Freeman
I feel like it feels so comforting to go into one of these interconnected series where you get to go and check back in on the couples from the past books and it's like visiting old friends. I really love these type of standalone but interconnected series.
- [29:09]
Clemence Michelin
I love them too, but I'm also so not picky in terms of reading them in order.
- [29:16]
Becca Freeman
Really?
- [29:17]
Clemence Michelin
Yeah.
- [29:17]
Becca Freeman
Morgan, I don't have Virgo y Virgos. I know this is a shocking revelation.
- [29:21]
Clemence Michelin
I know. But I've noticed this about myself and I won't always notice that they're interconnected if I don't go in knowing it. I didn't know that Deep End, the Winter one, the one that has the Swimmer, that came out a few months ago. I didn't know that that was interconnected with Love Hypothesis, which is the only other Ali Hazelwood book that I had read before I read Deep End.
- [29:42]
Becca Freeman
Oh, but that's like lightly interconnected.
- [29:44]
Clemence Michelin
Yes, but I wouldn't have recognized the characters had my co worker not pointed it out to me. So I was grateful that she nudged me in that direction after she found out that I was reading it. That just like floats right over my head. So wow. I don't mind reading them out of order.
- [29:57]
Olivia Mentor
Well, what about your book? So you have a book coming out next month? We've mentioned it on the POD before, but give listeners your own pitch for it.
- [30:07]
Clemence Michelin
Yes, happily so. My debut novel, the Art of vanishing, comes out July 1. It is a magical, whimsical love story set in an art museum. And we follow Claire, who is a new employee at the museum, who works the night shift, as she gets involved in the museum and starts to realize as she's staring deeply at the paintings that they might be moving at night and they might have more freedom to be their own people than one might think. And she develops a special connection with Jeanne, our main character, who is the subject of one of the paintings on the walls. And they learn over the course of a series of nights that Claire has the magical ability to cross through his frame and into his painting. And then transpires this seemingly impossible love affair between Claire and Jeanne, set against the backdrop of the Paintings in the museum. So they have the ability to move between paintings and to meet different characters in the paintings. But of course, there are all these forces trying to keep them apart. So you'll have to read more to find out what happens.
- [31:12]
Becca Freeman
Olivia and I both read this book and this book is so special and beautiful. And I feel like almost every time I put out a call for, like, when I do my book Matchmaker series on substack, people always want art books or museum book recommendations. And I feel like this is such an original twist on it.
- [31:32]
Clemence Michelin
Thank you. I have been obsessed with museums my entire life. My grandmother was an art history major in college and so she would take me to one museum a summer. She's also handicapped, so we would have like one day where she'd saved up her steps and that would be our special day at the end of the summer. And so she taught me to really look deeper at the paintings and think about the time in which they were created and the people that they would be representing and who made them. And so this is all kind of an ode to her. But I also just love works of fiction that play with magic that could exist in our world if we just like allowed it to. So I think that this lives in that universe too. So if you love art or if you love magic, I hope it will be the book for you. And Becca and Olivia, I'm so grateful for all the support that you two have shown the book so far too, of course.
- [32:18]
Olivia Mentor
I just want to say I kept thinking when I read it, this must have been so fun to write. I mean, I'm sure it was also very difficult, but I was like, wow, what a delight to read and to write. Probably magical.
- [32:29]
Clemence Michelin
It so was. And that's definitely been. I've been getting asked a lot about what my advice is for first time writers and you have to sit with this project for so many years. I've been working on this book for over three and a half years now. So you just have to pick a story that you're going to want to go back to day after day. And this was exactly that. I loved being in this world. All of the paintings referenced in the book are inspired by real paintings in real life.
- [32:53]
Kristin L. Berry
So.
- [32:53]
Clemence Michelin
So I loved doing the research behind all of the paintings and kind of putting this world together scene by scene. And I do have favorite chapters and they are the ones where they get to explore the museum the most. So every time I was rewriting or rereading, when I get to those chapters, I'd be like, oh, yeah, no, this is going well. We're good.
- [33:10]
Becca Freeman
We're so excited for everyone to pick up the Art of Vanishing, which comes out on July 1. But if people would like to hear more from you, where can they find you on the Internet?
- [33:18]
Clemence Michelin
You can follow me on Instagram or TikTok. My handle is nycbookgirl on. I have a rarely visited substack with the same name where you can find me as well. And I also have a website, it's NYC bookgirl.com or morganpager.com and you can order the Art of Vanishing from anywhere you like to buy books.
- [33:43]
Olivia Mentor
We are so excited to have Clemence Michelin with us today, who is an author and a journalist. Her debut thriller, the Quiet Tenant, which you all should know because it was a book club pick and also one of my obsessions. In 2023, when it came out, that book was an international bestseller and Blumhouse TV has acquired the adaptation rights. Her next thriller, Our Last Resort, is coming out on July 8, 2025, so this summer and you can pre order it right now and you should. And I am so excited to hear Clemence's Picks today. Welcome.
- [34:16]
Morgan Pager
Thank you so much. Thank you for this great intro and thank you so much to you both for having me. Actually, when you pick the quiet tenet for your book club, it was such a big moment for me. I loved that episode. It such a great way to be read and you know the book to see that the book was really understood. So thank you for that and thank you for this now.
- [34:35]
Becca Freeman
Well, we're so excited to hear what you brought to talk about today.
- [34:38]
Morgan Pager
Yes. Yes. So I brought two great picks. The first is El Dorado Drive by Megan Abbott, which is coming out. We're recording this mid June. It's coming out later this month, imminently actually. And I am so excited about it because I am a Megan Abbott super fan. I talk about her work so much in interviews that I think she might ask for a restraining order, like, pretty soon. But I can't help myself. She is really like a writer who made me a writer. No one writes like her. Her prose is exquisite. She does this like contemporary noir. It's always amazing. And this book is set in the suburbs of Detroit and it's the story of three adult sisters who join an exciting new club which rapidly turns out to be a pyramid schem. And I cannot wait. Like, when I heard that Megan Abbott was doing a pyramid scheme book, I was like, yes, this is so perfect. Anything she writes, I'm gonna Think, oh, this is so perfect. But this seems like a match made in heaven. Knowing how she writes, interiority and sort of devious behavior, but also the ways that people rationalize their own actions to themselves. It's gonna be fantastic. I actually haven't arc of it on my E reader, but I haven't read it yet because I love having a new Megan Abbott book to look forward to and I don't want that feeling to go away. So I. And I will. I will eventually just buy it also as a hardcover because I want to have it. But. So for now, it's still my break glass in case of emergency book and I will use it at one point, but I haven't. I still need to look forward to it for a little bit before I actually dive in. But it sounds fantastic and it's been getting great reviews, as expected. So I can't wait.
- [36:29]
Olivia Mentor
I was just reading a review of this the other day and as you were talking about her, I feel like she is to you as Ashley Audrain is to me. Like a restraining order is probably imminent. But can you believe I have never read a Megan Abbott book? And I don't know how you have.
- [36:48]
Morgan Pager
So much to look forward to. That's so great. I'm so jealous of you. Oh, my God. You're gonna love it.
- [36:56]
Olivia Mentor
I hear nothing but amazing things and the pyramid scheme of it all. I'm in. Say no more.
- [37:03]
Morgan Pager
She's a superstar.
- [37:05]
Becca Freeman
What have you brought for us next?
- [37:07]
Morgan Pager
My second pick is Kill youl Darlings by Peter Swanson. I have actually started reading this one. I'm a third of the way in. It's also a June release. It just came out this past Tuesday. And it is a domestic thriller, domestic suspense, a very classic premise. The wife wants to kill her husband. But this is not a spoiler. This is like the first few pages of the book, but then the story of that marriage is told in reverse. So we start with this and then we kind of work our way back to understand what happened and how we got there. And we know there's some darkness in their past. We don't know what it is. I don't know what it is because I haven't finished it yet. But. But it's one of those books where as soon as I started it, I was just. This is going to sound weird given the subject matter, but so happy to just be in it. It's just one of those where the prose is great, the characters make sense, they just feel real. But I also have that sort of spark of madness that is nice in a fictional character, but not in real life. So it's perfect. I'm actually really savoring it. I mean, I can't stop reading it. It's really propulsive. I want to keep reading it. I don't want it to be over. But at the same time, I'm inexorably heading towards the ending because it's so damn addictive. It's just really elegant. Also, there's a lot of references to various books and movies. It's super atmospheric. There's a whole thing with the steps that were used in the Exorcist movie, which is just like set such an interesting tone. It's super ominous. So I had been looking forward to it for weeks and I am not disappointed at all. It's really, really cool. And I believe there's already an adaptation in the works with Julia Roberts.
- [38:57]
Becca Freeman
Oh, my goodness.
- [38:59]
Morgan Pager
Yes.
- [39:00]
Becca Freeman
Just like a Little Known star, right?
- [39:02]
Morgan Pager
Yes, exactly. There's just a little bit of pedigree attached to this adaptation, but I can totally see it. It would make for a really, really cool adaptation on screen.
- [39:15]
Olivia Mentor
Well, like I said, you also have a book coming out very soon, which is admittedly on my TBR mountain on my bedside table. And I read the first page and I was like, this is already so good. And as you know, I have been editing my own book that has to do with a cult. And I was like, let me just finish those and then I'll get to this book, which is probably really, really excellent and will make me doubt myself. So I'm very much looking forward to it. But give our listeners the pitch.
- [39:43]
Morgan Pager
Our last resort, My next thriller is coming out on July 8th. It's now available for pre order and it tells the story of Frida and Gabriel, who are two adults who traveled to this gorgeous hotel in the desert in Utah hoping to repair their sibling relationship. They have been kind of out of touch for a few years and they're trying to sort of rekindle their relationship. And it's going okay. Not perfectly, but it's going well. Until on the fourth day, a female guest turns up dead, evidently murdered. And this would be a problem for anyone. But it's especially a problem for these two because the reason they had a falling out is that years ago, Gabriel was suspected of having murdered his wife. And so obviously another woman dying in his orbit is going to raise suspicions and he's going to quickly become the prime suspect. These two, Frida and Gabriel, share a very special, intense, weird bond because they grew up in a cult together in upstate New York. And so the novel is told in dual timelines. Their childhood in the cult and then sort of their early adulthood. So that timeline spans years and years, and then the contemporary timeline is in the hotel, the murder investigation, and all the suspicion that goes with it. And that timeline spans mere days. And I started writing this book completely innocently, being like, it'll be fine. And it turns out, like, it was a real challenge. I always tried to do something new when I write a book, and I always want to learn something. And, my God, this book taught me a lot. It's like a really interesting exercise to do dual timelines that have such different scales and to write the adults that would correspond to this childhood and this childhood that would lead to these adults. I love character driven fiction, and this was a really good way to explore that.
- [41:37]
Becca Freeman
Clemence, this sounds so good, but I have to ask you, because I'm a scaredy cat, where does this fall on the scaredy cat meter? Because I actually found that the Quiet Tenant was fine for me because most of the scary stuff had happened before the start of the book.
- [41:57]
Olivia Mentor
Yes.
- [41:58]
Morgan Pager
I actually think it falls on a similar area of the scaredy cat scale. I actually think it might even be a bit more accessible.
- [42:07]
Becca Freeman
Okay.
- [42:08]
Morgan Pager
You know, like, I found out after writing the Quiet Tenet, there are people who won't touch serial killer fiction. Like, they just don't have an appetite for it, which I completely understand. It's really dark. Our last resort has this glamorous setting. You know, it has like a bit of a white lotus strand of DNA. There's some mystery to it. And I am someone as a scaredy cat myself. I always keep the, you know, the violence off the page. Right. Like, so it's more mental. Right. Like, we're gonna deal with some tough stuff. Obviously it's crime fiction, but it's gonna be more psychological.
- [42:42]
Becca Freeman
Okay. I'm very excited. Usually I make Olivia be my screener to tell me if I can handle it, but I'm gonna take your word on this one, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna dip it.
- [42:50]
Morgan Pager
I appreciate that.
- [42:51]
Becca Freeman
Thank you.
- [42:52]
Morgan Pager
Well, now I hope my determination was.
- [42:54]
Olivia Mentor
Right, because you probably know best.
- [42:57]
Becca Freeman
You will be hearing from me at three in the morning.
- [42:59]
Morgan Pager
If it is not, please let me know.
- [43:04]
Olivia Mentor
Well, tell everyone where they can find you in the meantime after they're done pre ordering your book.
- [43:09]
Morgan Pager
Thank you. Yes, on social media, I am mainly on Instagram and my handle is my first name, last name altogether, so Clemence Michelin altogether one word. That's where I post photos of my dog and updates about my book and stuff like that. I also have a newsletter on Substack which I need to update and it's clemence michelin.substack.com and it's, you know, for tour updates and giveaways and stuff like that. This is where that information is. I also have an author website for people who like want to read my bio. It's clemencemichelin.com it comes up if you google my name. Basically it's a pretty good hub to get a full and a portfolio of my journalism stuff as well.
- [43:50]
Olivia Mentor
Let's take another ad break. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Even though I am a huge advocate of therapy for all, I sometimes still talk to friends or family members and remember just how stigmatized mental health care is in some generations and demographics. So take men for example. Six million men in the US Suffer from depression every year, and it's often undiagnosed. So many men I know still feel uncomfortable with showing emotion or the idea of therapy. But as I've talked about so much, therapy can be such a powerful way to access support and I believe all people can benefit from it.
- [44:33]
Becca Freeman
With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy schedule, plus switch therapists anytime at no additional charge.
- [45:00]
Olivia Mentor
I love my therapist and attend individual or group therapy on a weekly basis. It helps me stay grounded, connected with myself, and in touch with my own emotions. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with better help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com badonpaper that's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com badonpaper we are so excited to have Kristin L. Berry with us. Kristen is a writer and communications executive. Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Kristin graduated from the University of Michigan with a Bachelor's degree in English Language and Literature. She has provided PR and communications expertise to leading consumer brands for nearly 20 years, all while writing in her spare time. When she isn't reading or writing, Kristin can be found lifting heavy at the gym, hiking in Malibu, eating her way through Los Angeles with her partner, or shouting at the latest Formula one race. And her novel, We Don't Talk About Carol just came out. I just read it and I was just telling Kristen how excellent it was. I absolutely loved it. I'm going to talk about it at the end of this episode and we'll give Kristen a chance to plug it at the end of her recommendations as well. But what two books have you brought us today to suggest to the listeners?
- [46:31]
Nenna
Yay. I'm so excited to be here and I love talking about books, so this is like a dream come true. So one of the best things about being in my debut author year is that I'm able to connect with other debut authors. So I'd love to recommend two books by authors in my 2025 class.
- [46:47]
Becca Freeman
We love a debut.
- [46:50]
Nenna
There's so many good ones this year. I feel like I'm in really excellent company. I had the pleasure of reading an early copy of Greenwich by Kate Broad, which will be released on July 22nd. And in the novel, a 17 year old girl named Rachel is desperate for a fresh start after she's ousted from her friend group during her senior year of high school. And she decides to spend the summer at her aunt and uncle's palatial estate in Connecticut. And she quickly bonds with her three year old cousin and the live in babysitter Claudia, who cares for her. But from the novel's very first page, the reader is told that a tragic accident will take place during that summer and Rachel will have to make a consequential choice between her intensifying feelings for Claudia, her loyalty to the family, and all of her hopes for the future. So it's a dark and propulsive family drama that also explores wealth, privilege, race and power and that fraught experience of exploring your identity and sexuality in those tender years just after high school. So I highly recommend this one.
- [47:55]
Becca Freeman
We have a teen protagonist. Are we calling this book YA or are we calling it adult?
- [48:03]
Nenna
It's adult because it's told from the protagonist's perspective from the future. So she's sort of looking back on this experience that she had as a 17 year old, which I think really is very interesting and helps you to also question, you know, you feel like you're so adult, I think at 17, especially if you're just graduating from high school, but you really are still, you know, steeped in childhood in so many ways. And so especially it puts you, if you're put into a difficult position at that age, I think it also makes you question what you would have done, you know, as a 17 year old with some, you know, a really big decision to make. So it's definitely an adult book. Yeah.
- [48:44]
Becca Freeman
I just want to make sure we matchmake this with the right readers.
- [48:47]
Nenna
Very fair question. An important question.
- [48:50]
Olivia Mentor
I looked up this cover and I love it. It is so simple, but, like, haunting and unsettling. I love the drip. Maybe this is me too. God of the woods fan in me too. But, like, give me all the drips. But like the black font of Greenwich and then the bright, happy, pristine lawn, I just. It scratches a certain itch for me that I just love.
- [49:11]
Becca Freeman
I wonder if the drip is going to become a new cover trend.
- [49:14]
Nenna
I wonder the same thing. I can't think of another one besides God of the woods right now, but I'm curious to see if there'll be more of those. More drips in 2026.
- [49:22]
Becca Freeman
I can think of a lot that have drips in the form of blood off of a knife, but maybe less.
- [49:27]
Olivia Mentor
So in font or beauty products.
- [49:29]
Becca Freeman
Beauty products, yeah, for sure.
- [49:31]
Olivia Mentor
Like, I think Leigh Stein's book, I think Self Care has a drip. I'll have to think on this. We have to do an episode about COVID trends at some point.
- [49:39]
Becca Freeman
All right, Kristin, what is the second book that you brought for us?
- [49:42]
Nenna
Yes, second book. Very different because this is a romance. I haven't had the chance to read it yet, but I'm super excited to. It's called it's different this Time. And this one is by a now dear friend of mine, Joss Richard. And this releases on September 30th. And I wish I had a copy of this book to show you because it has this gorgeous illustration of two people on the stoop of a New York City brownstone flanked by golden autumn leaves. So I think, like, this will be like very fall vibes, like very fall. This is like the fall romance, I think. And so this one is a second chance romance. It's about two estranged former roommates, June and Adam, who are forcibly reunited by the will left by the owner of the brownstone that they once shared. And thanks to a clause in the document, June and Adam now own the multimillion dollar property, or at least they will once the paperwork is finalized in a month. And I have to read this bit of flap copy because it just, to me, it just sounds like a warm mug of apple cider as the autumn leaves fall around them. Through shared meals and late night conversations, old wounds and long buried sparks resurface and it becomes strikingly clear June and Adam have unfinished business. So it's just. I don't know. To me, I know summer is like, barely started, but this makes me excited for cozy sweaters and tall boots and baked goods.
- [51:10]
Becca Freeman
I mean, I don't know if this is a micro trope, but forced proximity by real estate circumstances like, into this. Into this.
- [51:21]
Nenna
Me too. Very into this.
- [51:23]
Olivia Mentor
I am not a romance reader generally, but. But sometimes, if it is vibey enough, especially fall.
- [51:29]
Becca Freeman
I was going to say you are a fall person.
- [51:31]
Olivia Mentor
Fall like a fall person. You said, this sounds like a cup of hot cider or whatever. And I was like, you don't even have to read the copy. Like, I'm in. And the COVID is also really charming. I did look that up as well.
- [51:43]
Nenna
That's super charming.
- [51:45]
Becca Freeman
But, Kristin, we also want to hear about your book. Can you tell us the pitch for We Don't Talk About Carol?
- [51:51]
Nenna
Absolutely. So We Don't Talk About Carol follows one woman's search for her missing aunt, who is one of six black girls to disappear from the same North Carolina neighborhood back in the 1960s. But searching for answers forces her to confront her own troubled past and a tangled web of secrets and lies surrounding her family, all of which are impacting her decision about whether to have children of her own. So the story grapples with disparities in the way the cases of missing people of color are treated in America, as well as the corrosive nature of family secrets. But I believe that it's also a thrilling, poignant, and ultimately hopeful reminder that in order to truly embrace our future, we first have to reconcile with our past.
- [52:35]
Becca Freeman
This is giving very true crime vibes.
- [52:38]
Nenna
Yes. I mean, honestly, it was inspired by the true crime podcast I was listening to during my socially distanced pandemic walks back in May of 2020. So, yes, it was very True Crime inspired. That's actually where I learned that there are some really disturbing disparities when it comes to the cases of missing people of color in America. And I was hopeful to maybe shed some light on that topic through a, you know, a propulsive, thrilling story.
- [53:03]
Becca Freeman
And also, we should mention that Kristin and Olivia were both talking before we got on this recording, and they agree that they think that this is Scaredy Cat approved.
- [53:14]
Nenna
Yes, as a fellow Scaredy Cat while writing this, I do think that it's Scaredy Cat approved.
- [53:22]
Becca Freeman
An important thriller distinction for me. For me, personally, same.
- [53:25]
Olivia Mentor
Honestly, it's really excellent. I absolutely loved it. So can't recommend it enough. And we'll talk about it more later. But yes, congratulations on your debut. You should be so happy. I hope.
- [53:37]
Nenna
Thank you so much. I'm over the moon. I'm still pinching myself that this is all my real life at this point.
- [53:44]
Becca Freeman
Well, we can't thank you enough for sharing these recommendations with us, but tell the listeners where they can find more of you and remind us the name of your book again so people can check it out.
- [53:54]
Nenna
Absolutely. So my book is called We Don't Talk About Carol. It's out now. And I post most frequently on Instagram to a slightly lesser degree on TikTok. And I have a substack offering a behind the scenes look at my life as a debut author. And I can be found everywhere under my name, Kristin L. Berry. I was very lucky to just secure that across all platforms years ago.
- [54:22]
Becca Freeman
For our next guest, we have Nenna, who is the bookstagrammer behind Notes by Nenna. She is also the founder of the New York City chapter of the Literary League and she is also the founder of the newly launched NYC Craft Club.
- [54:37]
Olivia Mentor
Welcome, welcome.
- [54:39]
Kristin L. Berry
Thank you both so much. As a longtime listener, I'm super excited to be here.
- [54:44]
Becca Freeman
Well, we couldn't be more excited to hear what you're excited to read in the second half of this year. Hit us with your first recommendation.
- [54:51]
Kristin L. Berry
So the first pick that I brought is out already, and that is Plus Size Player by Danielle Allen. And this is a romance that follows a young woman who is in her early 30s and she's got like an amazing life, great career, excellent social life, and she's dating a roster of men. Like, she has the man that she goes to when she wants a bit of romance, the man she goes to when she wants, like a super deep intellectual conversation. Because she's like, why would I expect one man to fulfill all of my needs? But of course, what she doesn't expect is that maybe there is one man who can do that, who is the perfect partner for her and who will make her rethink her roster of men. And this just sounds like such a fun summer read. I was kind of skimming some of the early reviews and it sounds like it is very steamy, very spicy. So who are into that, Take note. And I also like the idea of flipping the player air quotes on its head. Like, in this case, it's a woman who has a roster of men and who's dating multiple people.
- [55:58]
Becca Freeman
Okay. I was gonna ask because, like, I didn't want to be an idiot, but I couldn't tell if it was like, player, like Somebody who's dating a lot of people or if somebody played sports.
- [56:08]
Kristin L. Berry
Yeah, it's player dating a lot of people. Not sports, as far as I'm aware. I haven't read it yet, but that's how I understand it because I feel.
- [56:15]
Becca Freeman
Like hockey romances are so big right now that I was like, is somebody a hockey player?
- [56:19]
Kristin L. Berry
No. I can see that. I can see how you would think it's a sports romance, but I am not a sports. Like, all sports to me are one thing. I don't know what spoilers are. So it's. Yeah, player in the sense of dating multiple people. Which, you know, when a guy does it, it's like, fine. But when a woman does it, it's like, oh, my God. She's like, you know, fast. She's loose. So, yeah, I haven't read anything by Danielle Allen yet. And I think this is actually the second book in an interconnected series. So there was Curvy Girl Summer last summer, I think that came out. But I believe they can all be read as standalones. Kind of like, you know, a Kennedy Ryan, where each one follows a different character. So I'm planning to start with book two, and I'll keep you all posted if you can read it as a standalone.
- [57:04]
Becca Freeman
Okay, perfect.
- [57:06]
Olivia Mentor
So what's your second pick?
- [57:08]
Kristin L. Berry
So my second pick is a literary fiction one and it doesn't come out till September, so we have a little bit to wait. But it is the Wilderness by Angela Flournoy. And this one follows a group of women, five friends, all black women, from their early 20s into their 40s, I believe. And it kind of follows their different career paths and personal lives. I believe they're either living in New York City or la, and also their friendships as they change and evolve over the years. And they're all pursuing different things. For example, one character is trying to get her restaurant off the ground and another character is an aspiring blogger. And then the synopsis also mentions that there are two sisters who kind of have an estranged relationship at some point. So I just love the idea of following multiple characters, a group of friends, for several years because I feel like it allows you to get so stuck into their lives and invested and kind of grow alongside them. So this one sounds so good because it's got like that coming of age vibe. It's got female friendship. So I'm excited, very excited to read this.
- [58:20]
Becca Freeman
Nana, I told you before we started recording that I was excited slash jealous, because if you hadn't picked this one, I would've. I just love Any type of friendship novel, and I feel like they're underrepresented in the market. So to see the synopsis for this, I was like, I'm ready.
- [58:40]
Kristin L. Berry
Totally. And I feel like the last. I. I'm trying to think, like, the last time I followed a group of friends like that. And it makes me think of a little life in a sense, like, you know, just following poor people for a long period of time. Hopefully, it's nowhere near as traumatic as a little life, but just that sense of, like, getting so invested in these characters that I feel like they're real and, like, walking outside.
- [59:03]
Becca Freeman
Yeah.
- [59:03]
Kristin L. Berry
In the world right now.
- [59:05]
Becca Freeman
I've also loved the Kennedy Ryan trilogy, the Skyland series about friends who all kind of have vastly different careers. And, I mean, this kind of gives the same vibe, but with a much longer lens, which makes me really excited.
- [59:19]
Kristin L. Berry
Yes. Me as well. It also made me think of. I don't know if you ever all watched the show Girlfriends with, like, Tracee Ellis Ross.
- [59:24]
Becca Freeman
Oh, yeah.
- [59:25]
Kristin L. Berry
Yeah. So I kind of. It kind of reminded me of that, except there's five of them, and maybe the tone is a little bit, you know, more literary, less, like, comedic. But I was like, imagine if it's, like, Girlfriends, but a novel. So that just made me so excited.
- [59:40]
Becca Freeman
Okay. I'm very excited for this one. I have an arc, and I feel like we're just, like. As we talk, it's just, like, bumping itself right up, up the list.
- [59:48]
Olivia Mentor
I could have, you know. Oh, you know why I remembered it? This was one of your favorite covers of the year that we discussed. Right. Okay.
- [59:54]
Becca Freeman
That's why I thought you had funky, cool cover. Like, it kind of reminds me of Pineapple street, where it's, like, clear that you're looking at a living room, but it feels a little collage y and it feels, like, abstract.
- [60:08]
Olivia Mentor
Have you seen the COVID for Park Avenue, which just came out?
- [60:11]
Becca Freeman
Yes. Similar. Similar.
- [60:13]
Olivia Mentor
It's giving me similar vibes. Yeah. Both beautiful, I've heard.
- [60:16]
Kristin L. Berry
Amazing. I haven't read anything by her yet, but I know her debut novel or previous novel, the Turner House, was, like, highly acclaimed. So I feel very excited to get to, like, dive in here. And I feel like already the premise is, like, immediately sold female friendship. I'm in.
- [60:32]
Becca Freeman
Yes.
- [60:32]
Kristin L. Berry
So, you know, combine that with incredible writing, and I feel like it's going to be one of the big books this fall, probably.
- [60:39]
Becca Freeman
I could not agree more. Nana, tell our listeners where they can find you if they want more from you and if they want to check back on plus size player to understand if they can read this standalone.
- [60:48]
Kristin L. Berry
Yes, very important business to follow up on. You can find me otesbynena. I'm on Instagram, TikTok threads, substack all the places basically. So yeahotesbynena across all of this.
- [61:02]
Becca Freeman
Let's take one last ad break.
- [61:09]
Olivia Mentor
This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. As we've officially hit warm weather, Jake and I have been running our window air conditioning unit in our bedroom so it gets it's really, really cold at night and I absolutely love it. And this is gonna sound a little bit weird, but I swear there is something about Cozy Earth's bamboo sheets paired with the ice cold air that makes for the most satisfying sleep experience. They are these buttery soft sheets and they are ice cold and I really can't imagine a more preferred sleeping cocoon for me. I just ad libbed cocoon. We're just gonna go with it. It is a cocoon and it feels great for you.
- [61:48]
Becca Freeman
If you're considering new sheets from Cozy Earth, you should also know about their cozy Earth 100 night sleep trial and the 10 year warranty on all bedding products. Both of these policies prove just how much the brand stands behind the quality of their products. You can order and use their products knowing that if something doesn't work out for you, you can get your money back.
- [62:07]
Olivia Mentor
Go to cozyearth.com and use code BOP for 40% off best selling temperature regulating sheets, apparel and more. Trust me, you'll feel the difference the very First Night. That's BOP for 40% off sheets, apparel and more. Becca, what books are you going to talk about today? These are going to be a surprise to me, so I'm excited. I'm kind of on the edge of my seat with all the listeners right now.
- [62:36]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so the first one's already out. It came out earlier this month and it is called Park Avenue by Renee Ahdia. And this author is a highly acclaimed YA author. She wrote the Wrath and the dawn series and this is her first adult book. And the pitch, I feel like the thing that's standing out to me most in the pitch is that it's crazy Rich Asians meets succession. So I am. I am there. So the story is about a young, hungry lawyer who's kind of the outsider here. She gets assigned to work on this family owned Korean beauty brand, which I also think is so fun that it has to do with the beauty industry. And the family's a mess. The father's getting a divorce. He has these three bickering children, very succession vibes. So I am very excited for this. I think I'm probably gonna be cracking this this weekend.
- [63:36]
Olivia Mentor
Tell me what you think. I've been seeing this a lot of places as well.
- [63:39]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, I've heard it's, like, delicious, which is how I would describe crazy rich Asians as well. It's just like a romp, which is what I need in my life right now. The second book I've brought does not come out until September. Comes out September 2nd, and that is the Academy by Ellen Hildebrand and Shelby Cunningham. And I am not egotistical enough to imagine that Ellen Hildebrand retired and then was like, what do I think Becca Freeman would most want from me? And then was like, ah, yes, a boarding school book. But, like, you have to admit, there are some strange. There are some strange parallels here. This is very much my shit.
- [64:18]
Olivia Mentor
So Ellen Hildebrand was at the Jenna's Book Club event I went to, and.
- [64:21]
Becca Freeman
I think she said, I wrote this specifically for Becca Freeman.
- [64:24]
Olivia Mentor
She actually said, there's one person that I wrote this for, and it is Becca. Yeah. So the weird thing, I forgot to.
- [64:31]
Becca Freeman
Tell you that you heard these lies here first.
- [64:34]
Olivia Mentor
No. So what she said was that this is her favorite book she's ever written, and it's very adult. Sex, drugs and rock and roll.
- [64:42]
Becca Freeman
Oh, my God.
- [64:43]
Olivia Mentor
And there's another one coming out. I don't know if you know that.
- [64:45]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, it's a series.
- [64:46]
Olivia Mentor
Yes. And sorry if you mentioned that and I missed it. But also, I think maybe in development. I think actually all of her projects are in development is kind of what she said. But, yeah, she said it's her favorite thing she's ever written.
- [64:57]
Becca Freeman
Okay. So I'm so excited. First of all, it's really interesting because she wrote this with her daughter, and I think her daughter is now in college. But when they wrote this, her daughter was in high school and she was going to some type of New England prep school. So she was on the ground doing the research. I also just find that's fascinating that, you know, I feel like Ellen has such a sensibility, like this Nantucket, classy, rich lady type vibe. And so for her to pair up with her daughter, who's actually at a boarding school, I don't know, I'm just. I can't wait to see what happens. But it tells the story that's set at this boarding school, which has kind of like, newly become prestigious. So it just was declared number two in the country, which was a huge jump for it. But the school is maybe known more for its social scene than its academics. So as the school is kind of congratulating itself on this milestone, blind items start popping up on this new app outing students and teachers alike. So strong Gossip Girl vibe. And, of course, you know, all the blind items are causing mayhem and rifts and fights and what have you. So I am so excited. I feel like a lot of prep school books tend to be murder, and so I'm excited for gossip.
- [66:17]
Olivia Mentor
It sounds great. This is unrelated, but maybe you also know this about Ellen. I think that listeners would appreciate it.
- [66:24]
Becca Freeman
What don't I know about Ellen?
- [66:26]
Olivia Mentor
In that interview, she said that she's been playing around for a long time of the idea of writing a literary novel that follows four writers after they leave Iowa Writers Workshop. Because she went to Iowa Writers Workshop, which I did not know. Yes, you probably did. You're nodding. That is a premise for a book. If the prep school is made for you, that premise is made for me. I could want nothing more.
- [66:49]
Becca Freeman
I'm really excited. I was so upset when Ellen announced her retirement, but I feel like it doesn't sound like she's actually going away. She's just giving up the schedule, which, God bless her, doing one to two books a year for so many years. I totally understand. But I'm excited to see her kind of work outside the constraints of that schedule and continue to release things that interest her. Like, it sounds like this is gonna be a series, this literary novel, wherever it comes. Like, I'll follow her anywhere.
- [67:21]
Olivia Mentor
Well, I'm looking forward to hearing how you like the book.
- [67:26]
Becca Freeman
I'm very excited. I've had an arc of this for quite a while, and I've specifically avoided it because it's so long until release. And I feel like it can sometimes be frustrating if I'm talking about books, and I'm like, you can read this next year. But I feel like now that we're inside of the publishing season, like, it comes out this summer, all bets are off.
- [67:45]
Olivia Mentor
Well, let's get into some n matter. What are you obsessed with?
- [67:54]
Becca Freeman
Okay. Very niche. I don't know that this is for everyone, but I have eczema, and specifically, I get it on my scalp sometimes. And I'm having a really bad breakout right now, I think probably because I'm stressed and I've tried 8 million things, and most of them have not worked. But. But I really like. The brand is called Sene s e N and it's their scalp restore serum. And you can put it on wet or dry Hair. It's like a dropper that you kind of just part your hair and you kind of put it on your scalp. It doesn't make your hair gross, which is really important. Like, it's not oily if it gets in the rest of your hair. Like, it doesn't make it so that you're like, wow, this is working. But now my hair feels like a grease slick. And, yeah, it kind of goes on like nothing. And it works immediately. I had been complaining about my eczema for a couple of days, and this morning I finally put it on and inside of eight hours, I'm like, oh, that helped.
- [68:52]
Olivia Mentor
Oh, good. That's such a difference for probably your physical wellbeing. And also just mentally, I feel like eczema, from what I've heard, can be so frustrating and just, like, distracting.
- [69:02]
Becca Freeman
Yeah. This is the best thing that I have found for it personally.
- [69:06]
Olivia Mentor
Good.
- [69:07]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, good. What are you obsessed with?
- [69:10]
Olivia Mentor
I'm obsessed with the playlist I made, which feels very presumptuous, but I was reminded of it because. So you know the Paper palace, the book? I don't know if you've read it.
- [69:22]
Becca Freeman
I haven't read it, but I am familiar with it and I'm familiar thematically. Kind of about cheating, right?
- [69:28]
Olivia Mentor
Yes, among other things. But yes, one of my. One of my favorite books. Love that book about cheating.
- [69:35]
Becca Freeman
No, I really beta, you went to that by accident.
- [69:41]
Olivia Mentor
And the author really, interestingly is coming out or is out with a book of poetry, which I don't read a ton of poetry. I do like it. I find her writing to be so beautiful that it kind of makes sense to me. But anyway, I saw something about it, got an email about it, and I was reminded that I made a playlist about the Paper palace after I read it.
- [70:02]
Becca Freeman
Wow.
- [70:03]
Olivia Mentor
And that I was just so obsessed with and I felt was so strong. And I went back to it today and my God, that thing holds up. If you've read the Paper Palace, I need you to go check out my playlist. I feel like a 17 year old. Like, on Facebook status, please, please. Look at this awesome playlist I made. But it's so good.
- [70:23]
Becca Freeman
That's such a complimentary level of fandom. Like, I loved this so much that I created something based off of it. That's amazing.
- [70:31]
Olivia Mentor
I think so. I think so too, right? I think it's flattering, but it's such a vibey book and I was like, I need the vibes to be expanded. And so I made this. I just gestured so widely by the Way she did.
- [70:43]
Becca Freeman
Can't vouch.
- [70:44]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah. Anyway, it's a great playlist for driving around in a beach town somewhere, just plugging my Spotify account like a nerd. That's all. I liked it. What are you reading?
- [70:55]
Becca Freeman
Oh, okay. I finally finished It's a love story by Annabelle Monaghan, which you will probably remember is the book that I was reading. And then I stopped at 60% because I didn't want it to end. And then I restarted it and I finally finished it. And if you're wondering if I've thought about restarting it again, the answer is yes, I have. Oh my gosh, it's so good. I honestly cannot pick a favorite Annabelle Monaghan book, so I can't even say this is my favorite because I love them all so, so much. But this one is about a former teen actress who has now gone on to become a development executive and is trying to get her first movie made. And in order to do that, she tells this big lie in a meeting and basically has to go make that lie the truth. And the only person who can help her is this very pretentious serious cinematographer who's also interested in the project. And so the two of them team up. They go to his hometown in Long island to try to track down this musician, to get him to write a song for the soundtrack. And along the way she gets sucked into the cinematographer's like, big, boisterous family. And this book is. It's just like a warmth. Like, it is so warm, it is so witty, it is so lovely. Like, it is a perfect summer book.
- [72:27]
Olivia Mentor
I am in the middle of reading this one right now and it is really quite wonderful. And most people know, I think that Annabelle is so funny and obviously the stories are charming and all of that. She is an excellent sentence level writer, like, prose wise. There are some sentences that I find myself wanting to underline descriptions and characterizations and. And anyway, she just made the New York Times bestseller list.
- [72:52]
Becca Freeman
So happy for her. So happy for her.
- [72:54]
Olivia Mentor
I did very much deserved.
- [72:55]
Becca Freeman
I did a event with her last Friday night in Brooklyn at the Ripped Bodice. It was so fun. She is exactly how you expect her to be. It was my first time meeting her in person. We'd spoke on the podcast, we'd spoken on the phone before, but we'd never met and she was so lovely and she's also so quick on her feet. We played this game, which I'm. I'm going to save because I'm going to bring it for you for our next three things. But she was so quick on her feet. She's so funny. What about you? What did you read and did it make you want to make fan art?
- [73:34]
Olivia Mentor
Well, I just finished it 24 hours ago, so I haven't had time to create any art yet, but or two days ago I should say. And that is we don't talk about Carol by Kristen L. Berry, who we just had on this episode today. And I won't give you the pitch again because she already gave it to you. But it is a wonderful thriller. It's page turning but also emotional. Characters have depth, weirdly very comforting in a lot of ways. The main character, I guess this is a trigger warning, is going through IVF and she has a lot of rumination about parenthood and if she should become a parent, even as she's like, you know, spending all this money and this time to do IVF and her own relationship with her parents. And it's just very, very thoughtful and fresh and readable. And also it highlights this phenomenon or trend, I guess, of missing black women and men and children not getting enough attention as compared to white people who go missing. And all the podcasts about all the missing girls. And there's a true crime element. It's a great whodunit. The ending is super shocking. It was just a great page turner. So I really, really suggest this one. If you're looking for a thriller and great. If you get scared easily, it is not disturbing. I mean there are certain aspects of it that are of course disturbing, especially the parallels to everything I just talked about in the real world, but it's not gonna haunt you. Yes, scaredy cut approved, right? Yes, exactly. So yeah, I suggest going to order that one now.
- [75:20]
Becca Freeman
Well, we also have two pieces of book club news. One's not really news, so the non news one is that next week is book club and we are reading all the Other Mothers Hate Me by Sarah Harmon. Olivia, give us the pitch for it.
- [75:35]
Olivia Mentor
Yes, this is about a former pop star who is living in London with her 10 year old son. A single mom, she is a hot mess in every single way you can imagine and then some. And her son, who is a little bit awkward, ends up in this sort of disagreement, bullying situation with one of his classmates who then goes missing. And so long story short, she starts to believe that maybe her son had something to do with this. And throughout the story you find out what actually happened and it is. You're like, that doesn't sound funny, but I promise you it's really funny.
- [76:10]
Becca Freeman
The piece that actually is news is that we can officially announce our July book club pick which our listeners chose in the Facebook group. And we are going to be reading Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid, which is her epic love story set against the backdrop of the 1980s space program. I've heard raves about this one. Also, we were talking about the time profile of Taylor Jenkins Reid a couple of episodes ago and she said that this one, the kind of like impetus for this was her thinking what is my Titanic? So I am so excited for this. Also, if you need more book recommendations after this episode, I cannot imagine you do, but the thread in the Facebook group with the voting has some great recommendations in the comments and you can also look at the things that were nominated that didn't get picked. So check that out. You can find the Facebook group under Badon Paper. Also the Geneva group which is like a slack for not work you can find under Badon Paper. We are also Battonpaper podcast on Instagram and I am on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter is at becca freeman.substack.com I.
- [77:28]
Olivia Mentor
Am on Instagram liviamentor and I'm also on Substack at Olivia Mentor and that's all we've got.
- [77:34]
Becca Freeman
But we will see you next week for book club.
- [77:36]
Olivia Mentor
Bye.