B (2:51)

It's beautiful.

A (2:53)

It was a Nice way to end the process. You're right.

B (2:56)

Do you feel good? Like, do you feel like this door is shut in a way? I mean, because you still have to publish it and go through the experience. But do you feel like I've done all I can do, you know, time to move on?

A (3:08)

I do feel like that I don't feel ready to release it to other people quite yet for their judgment or experience of the book. It still feels a little too tender to me. I'll get there whether or not I want to. But I do. I feel like I worked so hard on it. I'm really proud of how much it changed. I learned a tremendous amount, both as a writer and as a person. And I'm like, yes, I'm ready to close the book on it. And I'm not quite at the objectivity phase days yet. I feel like with the Christmas Orphans Club, I wasn't able to read it objectively until I got my first or second pass pages, which was after a couple of months away. But even just having six weeks away between when I finished it and then starting my copy edits, I do feel like I can see it more objectively than I've been able to see it in a while. And I'm my harshest critic, so I felt really good going through this blast. Passion.

B (4:09)

Good. Yeah. It definitely takes time for it to feel like a book in the world instead of a jumble of words on paper that you wrote. Or at least that's how it is for me, truly.

A (4:19)

Well, what is your high?

B (4:21)

My high is that I had a really unexpectedly good therapy session this week. And I went into it, as I do a lot of weeks, just kind of thinking, I don't really know what this is going to be about or what we're going to talk about. But we ended up talking a lot about success. And, like, my definition of success and how it's always moving and nothing is ever enough. And it's a topic that's on my mind a lot right now as we approach Little One Coming out. And I kind of just determined by the end of it that I need to have, like, an Olivia dictionary in my mind. And when I flip to the word success, there is an Olivia definition, and that is it. And it is solid and it is unchanging. And whenever I. Whenever I feel like, oh, I don't have this, I don't have that, I'm not good enough, I just go back to that definition and I ask myself, well, is, is this enough for me? And the answer is yes. And TBD on what it will actually be. I am actually going to write it down on an index card as if it's like a library, A library card that you're taking out of a drawer or something. But I think, I mean, there's a lot of different, I guess, ways I define it and I. I'm kind of all over the map with it. Like, some days it's, oh, I'm writing for a career, that success. Some days it's, I wake up every day excited to go to work, that success someday. It's, you know, I'm healthy and I have a loving partner and a nice home and I'm safe. And those are all gifts and success too. So I think I just need to figure it out, write it down in the Olivia dictionary, store it away, and just go back to it whenever I'm feeling like not enough, which is so easy to feel in this process.

A (6:08)

Well, that's a fascinating topic and that hits really close to home for me as well. I'm really curious. Once you do have your succinct summed up definition, and if you're willing to share that publicly or privately, I would be very curious to hear how you define it. That feels like corkboard material if I've ever heard it.

B (6:28)

Yeah. I will be back. I need to sit down with it. It's a great journaling prompt, too. I think I get a lot of questions, as I'm sure you do, about what do you journal and how. What do you journal about? What do you write in the five year journal? I think that question is, is a great one for all of us, I'm sure.

A (6:42)

Yeah. Yeah. What about on the low side?

B (6:46)

I don't really have a low. It hasn't been that many days since we recorded, so, you know, no lows to report.

A (6:51)

Great. We love a no low week.

B (6:53)

What about you, Milo?

A (6:55)

Is that I've entered the chaos phase of moving and it looks like a tornado swept through my apartment overnight. I. I'm not quite packing yet because I don't want to live in a sea of boxes for too long, but I am aggressively purging and I spent probably like 4 hours yesterday going through the ignored corners of my house. Like the. I'm talking about, like the lowest shelf in my closet that I never touch or the highest shelf in my closet that I never touch, or the bins underneath my bed that I'm storing stuff in that I have not opened in years, or, you know, the backs of drawers. I went through everything yesterday. I ended up pulling out eight trash bags worth of stuff to donate. And the donation pickup is coming Monday. So I'm kind of. I was like, I don't want to live in boxes, but now I'm living in trash bags. So I don't know that it's much better for my sanity.

B (7:57)

There's no better feeling in the world than purging, so I am. I'm happy for you, even if it's chaos right now.

A (8:03)

Truly.

B (8:04)

Well, let's take an ad break and then we will talk books. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. It's a new year and I think there are so many ways to feel refreshed, renewed, and re energized without transforming your entire being head to toe. And sometimes even small changes can add a sense of calm and confidence to your days. And this may sound ridiculous, but for me, upgrading all of my towels to cozier towels, I have both the waffle and the luxe versions and I love them all was a major game changer. I just feel such a sense of adulthood and peace when I get out of the shower and I reach for one of them. They're so. I mean, I hate to use this word, but they are really so cozy.

A (8:52)

Actually, I have the luxe towels and a friend was staying with me last fall and after she used one of them, she was bowled over. She was like, where are these from? Which I don't know. I feel like I don't usually get impressed with a towel, but that's how good these are. And she ended up buying them for herself too. I mean, they're so great because they are so soft, they're so plush. They're made from a unique blend of cotton and viscose from bamboo using their innovative Zero Twist technology. The result is that the towels feel like a gentle hug, drying you off quickly and efficiently with an elevated design that ensures they look as good as they feel. They add a touch of sophistication to any bathroom, which makes them a must have for your post shower routine.

B (9:34)

Start the new year off right and give your home the luxury it deserves and make home the best part of Life. Head to cozyearth.com and use our code BOP for up to 20% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, be sure to mention you heard about Cozy Earth right here.

A (9:54)

All right, Olivia, do you want to kick us off and tell us about the two books you brought to share today?

B (10:00)

Yes. My first book is Whidby by T. Kira Madden. I was first drawn to this book because of the COVID which is Very me. Very moody. Beautiful, gorgeous. Just loved it. This one comes out on March 10th. I am currently reading an advanced copy of it and I'm not exactly sure where I'm going to land yet, but I wanted to talk about it because I think it does so many things so well. So this is a story that is about three women, multi pov and all of their experiences and connections to this one predator, sexual predator who committed horrible crimes. And in the book, he's murdered towards the beginning of the story. And so the book is all about these different women and their connections to him and their experiences with him and what he did to them and how they've lived since. And it comes at it from three points of view that are totally unique. The characterization work is incredible. It reminded me a lot of notes on an Execution.

D (10:59)

I was just going to say that.

A (11:00)

That description you gave, I haven't read that book either, but it felt very similar to me.

B (11:05)

Yes, I would say it's like that. It's even darker, maybe, and edgier. But there are so many choices in this. Just the writing. There's one scene, One of the POVs is the mother of this guy. She works in a home improvement store giving out paint samples. And I keep thinking about the scene so, so much because it does such incredible work, describing her as a person and this moment in time. And I just. Every time I think about the book, I just think about this one scene. I'm not quite done with it, but I'm really looking forward to it. I would say it is a literary mystery. Thriller is. And heavy on the literary.

A (11:42)

Okay, when does that come out?

B (11:44)

This comes out March 10th. And also, TK Madden has a memoir that I have heard unbelievably wonderful things about that I haven't read, but maybe worth checking that out as well, if you are interested.

A (11:56)

And what about for your second book?

B (11:58)

My second book is a book by one of my oldest friends, so Shameless Plug. But I really wanted to talk about this because I think it is such a wonderful and powerful and important book. And that is Missing Me by Ayanna Lage, who I have known since college. This is a memoir about her experience with postpartum psychosis, which is something that I really did not anything about until seeing a friend go through this. And it is so raw and so beautiful and the writing is just gorgeous. Ayanna is truly so, so, so talented. And I think this is a subject that there's such anxiety and fear and stigma around it that it is not talked about. And We've had her on the podcast before, but her writing is something so special. Her essays are unbelievable. And I think this is going to be the memoir. And I am biased, but it really is something special to watch someone, especially someone you know, but anyone, just lay bare the toughest part of their life. And so it goes through her hospitalization and what that was like, being away from her newborn daughter during those. Those weeks. It's remarkable, and she's remarkable, and I. I think absolutely everyone should pre order it and read it and share it with your friends. It's just something really special. Also, I guess I just love all covers, but it is a really, really cool cover.

A (13:28)

It is.

B (13:29)

So I think it's worth having on your shelf, and I can't recommend it enough.

A (13:34)

Well, let's hear from some guest recommendations. We are so happy to have Grant Ginder with us, who is the author of six novels, including the People We Hate at the Wedding, which was adapted into a major motion picture. And let's. He teaches writing at NYU and lives with his husband and terribly behaved dog in Brooklyn. His new novel, which you've heard me rave about, so old, so young, will be released in February. Welcome, Grant.

B (14:04)

Welcome.

E (14:04)

Hey, thank you so much for having me.

A (14:06)

We're also so happy to have you fresh off of a plane from Japan. So thank you for making time for us.

E (14:12)

I, like, have no idea what day it is. I have no idea what time it is. Last night after we got in, my, like, game plan was I had dinner and then I took an Ambien and chased it with some melatonin and woke up not knowing where I was. And so we'll see how this goes.

B (14:28)

Can't wait. And now you're here. Perfect. We love this energy.

A (14:32)

Well, tell us what you brought to recommend to us today.

D (14:35)

Sure.

E (14:36)

So two novels that I am super, super excited about that I was really fortunate enough to read early. The first of which I believe is already out or just coming out. It's called George Falls Through Time, and it's by an author named Ryan Colet. And it's one of those books that really took me by surprise. It is about a queer man living in London who's down on his luck, who's, like, just got dumped. His Internet is still in his boyfriend or his ex boyfriend's name. And very quickly in the novel and kind of in with. With this very narrative depth of hand, he, George, kind of tumbles through time and finds himself in the year 1300. And at first I was like, oh, this is like a Fun time travel novel, but very quickly it becomes super profound and moving. And I found myself actually crying at multiple points. Not because it was like depressing or sad, but because the meditation on kind of the disconnected way that we live now and the struggle to find human connection was so well done. It also, also moves so quickly. I'm terrified of time travel novels. Like, I could never pull that off. Any kind of sci fi shit. I'm like, I. I don't know how to do that. And this, he just does it so, so well. So that's George Falls Through Time. The second novel that I am, I'm actually like completely obsessed with that's coming out later this year is called Big Nobody. And it's a debut novel by a woman named Alex Katis. She, I believe, is 63 years old. Like, doesn'.

A (16:18)

I love an older debut.

E (16:20)

Yes, I'm obsessed with it. She's a Greek writer and it's about this girl in London in the 1970s, the mid-1970s, who lives with her father, who she calls her father the murderer. Because through a tragic accident, I'm not really giving anything away here, but through a tragic accident, a car accident, I believe, he managed to kill both her mother and her brothers. And he's sort of this oppressive figure. She, meanwhile, is an adolescent, which, as we all know, is this total shit show of a time. And it's upsetting. Obsessed with music. She talks to the posters of rock stars in her room. So she has like conversations with this like imaginary David Bowie that comes to life via the poster in her room. The thing that I loved most about this novel, frankly, was Alex Kaddiss's voice on the page. I mean, the narrator, the girl in this novel is honestly like one of the funniest, insightful, weirdest characters that I have read in recent memory. I think I said in my blurb with it that I'm just totally, utterly batshit obsessed with this book. And I stand by that. I cannot wait for the world to read it. She's a real force to be reckoned with.

A (17:28)

Oh, that sounds so good. When does this come out?

E (17:31)

You know what? That is a really, really great question. This spring, I believe.

A (17:35)

Oh, March 5th.

B (17:36)

It looks like March 5th.

E (17:38)

Oh, my God. And that's my mom's birthday. What an auspicious debut. So, but please, please, please pick this book up. You will be delighted. It is so funny. It's very moving. She nails what it's like to be a teenager. I can't recommend it enough.

A (17:55)

So you're begging people to Please, please, please pick up that book. But I'm begging people to please, please, please pick up your book. Because I enjoyed it so much, and I very easily could have brought it as one of my recommendations for this episode, but I thought it would be better to let you pitch it instead of me butchering a pitch for it. So can you also tell us about so Old, so Young?

B (18:15)

Sure.

E (18:16)

So, so Old, So Young follows six college friends over the course of 20 years. But kind of the narrative twist to it is that we only see parties over the course of those two decades. So, you know, ranging from like, a shitty New Year's Eve party in their 20s to a disastrous destination wedding to 35th birthday party in the Hamptons to backyard barbecues in Montclair when there's, like, too many kids and not enough wine. So we see these people grow up over the course of two decades and see how time kind of reshuffles their friendship and how they both change and don't change and about how those friendships last or don't withstand the pressures of time.

A (19:02)

I thought this book was so phenomenal. I mean, I love friendship fiction in general, but I couldn't help mapping people I know from college onto the characters. I just felt like it was so well done. I had such a blast reading this book.

B (19:19)

Thank you.

E (19:20)

I'm really worried that my friends from college are going to map themselves onto these characters, too, and I'm gonna have some explaining to do. Well, you know.

B (19:31)

You know, I heard an author say once that, like, when there's actually a character based on someone real, oftentimes the person just cannot see it.

E (19:38)

They don't know. They totally don't know.

B (19:40)

It's really crazy. A mental block.

E (19:42)

Yeah, it's really, really crazy. And then, like, people you've never, like, not never thought of, but people that you certainly weren't thinking of when you were writing the book will come up to, like, wow, I really saw myself in that character. And you're like, oh, that's really wonderful.

B (19:57)

Great.

E (19:57)

Yeah, that's fantastic. Really.

D (20:01)

But thank you.

E (20:02)

You know, the book comes out in a little less than a month on February 17th. And so I am that mix of excited and terrified. And this was. I think I wrote, like, 11 drafts of this book. It was. It was too challenging to write. Yeah, the time jumps were kind of tough to deal with. And so it's one of those things where I, like, look at a page now and I'm like, I don't know if this is even English. It's like, so gobbledygook to me. I think between the first draft and the last draft, I changed 105,000 words. Like there were only basically 3,000 words that remained from the first draft. And so it's one of those things where I'm like, who knows how this is going to do? But I am excited for it to.

B (20:41)

Be out in the world. Well, I've heard amazing things about it, not just from Becca, but from other people as well. So it sounds like something really special and I can't wait to read it personally.

E (20:50)

So thank you.

B (20:51)

I'm excited.

E (20:52)

It's also the product of like, I was having a midlife crisis when I was writing this book that's about people having midlife crises. And so to that end, I definitely think it's my most personal book, which only adds to the anxiety of it being out in the world.

B (21:08)

Yeah, that's so true.

A (21:11)

Well, Grant, if people want to keep up with you and your writing, can you tell us where they can find you on the Internet?

E (21:17)

Yeah, absolutely. I'm just on Instagram, I'm Antginder and then my website is just GrantGinder.com.

B (21:30)

Well, we are so excited to have Brady with us today. Brady is an east coast based creator who is the it girl of the booktok community. She is a trustworthy source for someone searching for their next read and leads engaging conversations in our comments on the topic, garnering a loyal fan base. While she is most known for her book content, her influence goes beyond her audience also stays tuned in for her fashion, beauty and home recommendations. And I am a relatively newer follower of Brady on Instagram. But I absolutely love your book content as I was just telling you. So I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today.

C (22:03)

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I absolutely adore all of this and thanks for having me.

A (22:10)

Well, tell us what you brought for us today for your first book that you're excited about.

C (22:14)

Absolutely. I think my favorite part of a new year is seeing all of the new releases coming out for the next year. I just filmed the video 26 in 2026 and I have a running list going. I think I have like 55 new releases that are coming out and even narrowing it down to 26 was hard, so narrowing it down to 2 was even harder. But Dolly all the Time by Annabelle Monahan is one that has been on my radar for a while. I don't know if you guys read anything by Annabelle Monahan yet.

A (22:44)

I'm obsessed with Annabelle Monahan both as an Author and then also as a human being. Yes.

C (22:50)

Following her on Instagram is a joy.

A (22:53)

She is like human sunshine.

B (22:54)

She's hilarious. Yes. We love her. Friend of the pod, friend of our house.

C (22:59)

Oh, that makes me so happy. She deserves all the hype in the world. I think I found her by her first novel, Nora Goes Off Script, which I loved. And then Same Time Next Summer by Her is one of my all time favorites that I always recommend. But she's coming out with Dolly all the Time this year. And what I love about her books are the mature women that she writes. I feel like she kind of fills a void in the romance space because not everybody always wants to read about teenagers. You know, when women are getting older, we want to read about people who are in our similar age range. And Dolly all the Time is about a woman who. She's 39 and she moves back home with her son and she runs into this man named. I think his name is Stuart, and he is the heir to a very wealthy family. And I believe it is the marriage slash dating for convenience trope, which is a personal favorite of mine. So I'm very excited to read this one and I hope I love it as much as our other ones because everything she writes is just perfection.

A (24:02)

There's something that's so warm about her books, that feels realistic, but just, I don't know, it does something to my heart. In a good way.

C (24:12)

I agree.

B (24:13)

Yeah, it's cozy without being like whimsical. You know, it's like real life cozy, which I appreciate.

C (24:19)

Yeah, it's real life cozy. That's a great way to explain it. And they're always set in the summer, which is always really fun. Like even the description of this one that I was reading, there's scenes on a boat and her swinging on a swing. And I was like, it's 40 degrees outside right now and I'm like craving a warm, sunny day, so. So can't wait to dive into that one. She came out with one last year too. I think she's come out with one like every single year. So it will be out May 26, so just in time for Memorial Day weekend.

A (24:46)

Incredible.

B (24:46)

Jeffrey R. Perfect. And what is the second book you've brought for us?

C (24:50)

Okay, this one I'm really excited about because I've seen it classified as historical fiction meets thriller slash mystery. But Olivia, we were just saying that we'd also love dystopian, and it almost gives me dystopian vibes, but it's Yesteryear by Carol Clare Burke. And obviously, if you're in, you know, the book space, you're also very familiar with social media. And it's about an influencer slash content creator that sells her pioneer esque lifestyle online, but one day wakes up living in the lifestyle that she's selling. So she wakes up in 1805 and, you know, her house is not warmed by electricity anymore. She has a fire burning. Her husband is now a farmer, and she's like, how did I get here? And it's almost like a reality check. And I think being in social media, things can come across so differently on screen. So seeing. I just love the idea and premise behind this book of like, if you're going to sell this lifestyle, let's put you in it and see how you do in it. You know, I think it was so interesting and I can't wait for it to come out.

A (25:59)

I have been following this author on social media and she always has such astute takes about pop culture and social media and the Internet. And so it makes me very curious to see what this will be like in a much longer format package. I'm very excited to read this one.

B (26:20)

It's also being made into a movie starring and I think maybe even produced by Anne Hathaway. So it really has everything going. This is the it book of the year. Pretty. It's. Yeah, it's really, really everywhere. And I'm so excited to see how it is. Okay.

C (26:36)

That makes me so excited. I had no idea there was a screen adaptation in the works, honestly. I also haven't really seen anyone else talking about it or even like, I think, like, I added it to my Goodreads and people were like, what's that book about? I'm like, I. I'm so excited. I'm. And you said Anne Hathaway.

B (26:55)

Yeah. What?

A (26:56)

What?

C (26:57)

Like a crew?

A (26:58)

Great book.

C (26:59)

Great casting.

B (27:00)

Wow. Yeah. I think the author also has a popular podcast that I haven't listened to, but I've heard incredible things about. So another person on the episode wanted to pick this one too. And so it's definitely in the ecosystem, but I think we're only going to keep hearing more and more about it and I'm definitely going to read it.

C (27:16)

Oh, that makes me so excited. I can't wait.

B (27:20)

Well, can you tell anyone who isn't already following you where they can find you and your marvelous book content on the Internet?

C (27:27)

Absolutely. I'm just Rady Lockerbie on all platforms. Instagram, TikTok, Goodreads, wherever you want to browse. I'm probably there. And I also run an online book club with one of my best friends, Rosie, who I actually met through doing social media. We were both just mutuals of each other and we've become best friends. We run a book club together. It's called Brady and Rosie Book talk. And also a great time over there and yeah. And if you want to come and follow me and chat books, I'd love to have you.

B (28:01)

Well, we are so thrilled to have Chelsea with us today. Chelsea devontez is an Emmy nominated writer, national best selling author, comedian and director. She was formerly head writer for the Problem with Jon Stewart on Apple tv who developed multiple shows under an overall television deal with 20th Century Fox. Her writing credits include Girls 5, Eva, Not Dead Yet, Bless this mess, among others. And her debut memoir, I shouldn't be telling you this, but I'm going to anyway was a national bestseller. Devontez also hosts the podcast Glamorous Trash with over 6 million downloads to date. And I can personally vouch for that podcast being excellent. And Chelsea is just the best. So I'm so excited that you're here.

F (28:42)

Well, Olivia, I made you. I made you read a sister wife book with me on that podcast. It was wonderful. Okay, you're right, you're right.

A (28:49)

I actually.

B (28:50)

You're next. I request it.

A (28:51)

I can't wait. I can't wait. I love a celebrity memoir on audio and I'm getting ready to move and so I feel like I have a lot of menial tasks ahead of me. So I can't wait to hear what you're recommending.

F (29:05)

While I would love to be recommending Spencer Pratt's memoir and mayoral run, I am not. Don't worry. That is top of mind for me, but I would say lowest on my recommendation scale.

A (29:18)

Now, does he have a memoir coming out?

D (29:20)

Oh yeah, baby.

B (29:21)

Oh, okay.

D (29:22)

I think in.

F (29:22)

I think I'll be reading that thing in two weeks. I am both.

A (29:25)

How do you.

F (29:26)

What's the word for like really looking forward to it and feel like I'm looking forward to torture.

A (29:31)

It's like cringetic Cringetication.

D (29:36)

That.

F (29:36)

That is beautiful. Yeah. I'm also, I was already excited for this memoir in the worst way, but now that he's running for mayor, I'm super worried that the memoir is gonna have a lot of political philosophy in it. Like, it's gonna be like announcing like how he thinks cities should be governed. And I'm again, I'm also excited to see his thoughts.

B (29:56)

There's no telling what is in store for all of Us.

D (30:00)

Right. And it's coming.

F (30:01)

And, you know, Heidi wants to be a first lady, so it's. I think they're taking this seriously. As much as I. As I'd like it to be a joke, I know they're serious.

D (30:08)

Okay.

B (30:09)

Oh, they are.

F (30:10)

That is not my recommendation, though. So the two books I'm really looking forward to. The first is Brandy's memoir, Phases. This is Brandy Norwood, Moesha, Cinderella.

B (30:20)

Rebecca has been talking about this for, like, I think a year.

A (30:23)

I have.

G (30:23)

Really?

F (30:24)

Okay. So, Becca, you're a huge fan.

A (30:26)

I'm a medium fan, but I'm fascinated because Brandy killed someone, and I want to hear how she talks about that. Yeah, and she does talk about it. So my friend edited this book, and he said it was incredibly juicy. Yes.

F (30:43)

Yes. So I share. This is my. I don't know. It's not Nepo, but I. The imprint that did my memoir is doing Brandy's memoir. And what I love about them is that they love memoirs. So they did Eves like they have. So they did Natalie Beach's. So they were the one who picked up Natalie Beach's memoir, which was Dueling Memoirs with Carolyn Calloway. And so they're so good at it. And, yes, I have also heard that it's very juicy. There's no way for Brandy to memoir without addressing that death.

A (31:15)

So I think that Brandy is the perfect level of celebrity for a celebrity memoir. My favorite celebrity memoir of all time is Jessica Simpson's, and, like, you're not famous enough that you can do whatever you want. Like, you really have to give us something in order to get people to read it. Like, you don't have the luxury of, you know, just being, like, Britney Spears's memoir. People are gonna read no matter what. And so, you know, you can omit whatever you want. You can really craft what story you want to tell versus, like, I expect this to be juicy. If you want me to read this.

B (31:53)

This for clarity, for me and potentially other people out there, she was in a car accident and someone died. Is the.

F (31:59)

Well, I. What I think is fascinating is that if you are a millennial, you have different versions of this story. So I remember hearing that her brother was driving a car and killed someone, but then actually it was Brandy. I don't think that version's correct. I just think our high school or middle school was just, like, on the beat, but I think there was a lot of, like, she's killed someone. She's killed someone. And yes, it was a car. I actually don't know the exact details I want the memoir to tell me again. I remember just watching Cinderella, which her name, Houston, come on. Iconic. But then hearing, did you know? And I remember hearing it as a myth almost the way it could not be true or it could be true again. I grew up in a really small, terrible little town that didn't like to read. But, yes, I'm really looking forward to the memoir addressing it because. And then I think we're also gonna have to, like, fact check and go into all of the other reporting, because I'm sure it's something she didn't want to write about. Same with Matthew Broderick. That's why he's never gonna give us a memoir. Yes.

B (33:02)

It's amazing to me how many people don't know that about Matthew Broderick. I didn't know that accident.

A (33:06)

You didn't?

G (33:07)

Oh, you don't know this?

B (33:08)

In Ireland, I tell this to people all the time. It's a really weird thing, like, to bring up in social settings. But, yes, I'm glad you're the expert.

F (33:16)

Letting the people know.

B (33:16)

Olivia, if you want to tell Becca, you can tell. You can tell.

F (33:19)

Well, okay, so Jennifer Grey, Dirty Dancing, her memoir actually talks about this because she was in the car with Matthew Broderick. This is like, two weeks before Dirty Dancing comes out. And she's going to become a star.

A (33:30)

Okay, so this is the 80s, the 90s. This is a long time ago.

B (33:34)

90S, maybe. Yeah, this is. This is pre Sarah Jessica Parker.

F (33:39)

Yes, yes, yes. This is 1987.

B (33:43)

Okay.

F (33:44)

And so, yes, and they're gonna have, like, this wild, weird engagement after this, and she's gonna leave them for Johnny Depp up. It's a whole thing. But first they're in Ireland. And on Ireland, you drive on the opposite side of the road that you do in America, famously. And. But he was in Ireland, so you shouldn't be on that side of the road. And it's very muddled because it's believed that he was. He was just driving on the wrong side of the road, hits two women in a car, and they died. Now, in Jennifer's memoir, she specifically writes that she is looking down in this moment and picking up a cassette tape.

B (34:18)

So that.

D (34:18)

That.

F (34:19)

And I'm. This is me pontificating so that she doesn't have to say what she saw or what happened, because he's never gone to jail. He's never paid for that crime. He, like, comes back to the US and like, that's. That two women died. Matthew killed them, and then they Go on to become even bigger superstars.

A (34:34)

I had no idea.

B (34:35)

You've never. And I. I think it was like a. A mother and a daughter or. It was. Yeah, it's terrible. But, yeah, we all moved on collectively, I guess. And same with Brandy. Although Brandi hasn't really had the career since.

A (34:50)

Yeah, she's really related to the accident obscurity. I don't know that she's acted much since then.

F (34:57)

I think that's why I'm also so excited for this book to have, because I think every time we deconstruct a millennial woman icon who was leading the way for all of us growing up in a huge part of culture and all of the ways her life, I'm assuming, was absolutely ruined the way. When you go back into that, it just feels. It's like the way I want to go through history. And I feel like because of what happened to her at the height of fame is why she doesn't have that career now. And I'm so curious what she's doing with this memoir. Like, Jessica Simpson. Jessica Simpson was kind of relaunching herself, but not really. She already had the clothing line. I just saw her doing a Chicken.

B (35:40)

Of the Sea commercial.

F (35:41)

Like, she's, like, kind of doing music, but that's more just like, I got divorced, and I want to sing. Like, she doesn't really have to be doing much. She really wanted to tell her story. I'm really curious what Brandi's memoir's intention is.

A (35:52)

Okay, so this one comes out March 31st.

D (35:55)

Yes.

F (35:56)

Okay. My other recommendation is also a March memoir, baby, and it's Christina Applegate's you with the Sad Eyes. And this is March 3rd that it's coming out. And this, again, she's more of a 70s, like, married with children. And she basically was escaping this really tumultuous life in la, living in Laurel Canyon, to go become a teenage child star, which, you know, means your life's about to get even worse. And she had such a huge boost of fame and then came back again when she was an anchorman, and now she has Ms. And is, I think, revisiting a lot of the traumas that she kept buried. And so. And also, she came back with Dead to Me.

A (36:42)

Yeah.

F (36:43)

So I think she had this big, beautiful, enduring career in Hollywood, where I think at every age, like, she was 20, and they were like, you're old, you're out. She came back at 30, and they're like, all right, now you're old, you're out. She came back at 40. And then now she's dealing with this horrible disease. So I think she's gonna. I think this is gonna be a really touching, moving memoir with something beautiful to say.

A (37:03)

I think I'll definitely check this one out too.

B (37:06)

Yeah.

F (37:06)

Yeah. I'm excited for these two.

A (37:08)

Yeah. I have less familiarity with her. I feel like my touchstone for her is really dead to me. So it's more recent.

B (37:14)

Yeah.

A (37:15)

But I'm very interested to hear how she positions herself in this.

B (37:20)

I didn't know she was a child star. I knew she was always a teenager.

F (37:24)

On Married With Children.

B (37:25)

Okay.

F (37:26)

And so I don't know if she was. I don't know if. I think she was probably acting before then. And some things we're gonna. I mean, I think she was, like, 16 years old when that show was huge. If you and I. I feel like.

B (37:37)

I could say this.

F (37:38)

If you grew up white trash, you know, the show Married With Children, because.

A (37:41)

You'Re like, that's us.

F (37:43)

And so she was huge on that show. And also, what? Don't tell mom the babysitter's dead. And so I love memoirs that kind of take you through Hollywood history. Like, Irony Skies was a great one for that one. And I feel like we're get, like, a lot of 70s history in this.

B (37:58)

This.

F (37:59)

I also love the dark memoirs. I love when they get dark.

A (38:01)

What a good memoir March we have.

F (38:04)

It's a great. And normally it's memoir May, so I feel like the fact that these are coming in March, we're going to get, like, a whole slew of really good ones in May, too.

A (38:15)

Can't wait.

B (38:15)

And if you don't want to read these yourself, which I may or may not, I will just be listening to the recaps that you share on Glamorous Trash because they're so good. They're so good. I can't recommend them enough. I. If you're someone like me who loves pop culture, I'm the biggest super fan of your show. It is so smart, and every angle that I haven't even thought of you, you get to. And then I'm like, God, that's so right.

F (38:41)

That means so much. The feeling is. The feeling is mutual. And, Becca, when you see a book pop up that you're excited about, come on over.

B (38:48)

Okay. Can you tell people where to find you in the world on the Internet? Not your. Or not your address, but, you know.

F (38:56)

Hey, come on over. No, I'm really bad at hosting. Don't come over. You can find me the Glamorous Trash podcast is, you know, anywhere you get your podcast. We're also on Patreon and then on Instagram. I'm Chelsea devontez and we also have a glamorous Trash podcast account where I will post my notes from the book and my Instagram stories. And we talk like, you know, we talk a bunch of shit before we record on the podcast. So that's fun too.

A (39:17)

Incredible. Thank you for these recs.

F (39:19)

Thanks for having me. I can't wait to listen to the other recommendations on the episode.

B (39:28)

Well, we are so excited to have Katie Fulton here with us today. Katie is a bookstagrammer at the Handle. Katie needs a bigger bookshelf. Based in Media, Pennsylvania, she has become most well known for her annual Christmas book tree, which was recently in People and on the Today show with Jenna and friends. She is a yearbook sales rep by day, but an avid reader who recently purchased a new home and built her dream library. Thanks for being with us today, Katie.

G (39:54)

Thanks so much for having me.

B (39:56)

Well, what is the first book you have brought to us? You read hundreds of books a year. Maybe the most books of anyone I've ever known. So I know you're gonna have some, some great ones on your radar.

G (40:07)

So I actually know people that read more than me. And so I don't know how they do it. Cause I don't know how I do it. But I had such a hard time picking books. This was harder to pick books for than the Today show, to be honest. But my first.

A (40:22)

It was really hard.

G (40:24)

I mean, my first thought was, if you know me, I was gonna pick the new Stephen Rowley. I decided not to do that one because I am gonna scream that one's praises all over the place for the next few months. So the first book I chose was this book made me think of you by Libby Page. And it has the same pub date as little one. February 3rd. And five months after losing her husband, Libby gets a phone call from her local bookstore and they say, we have something for you. So she goes and it's a book wrapped book from her husband. And they tell her that he left her 12 books, one for each month for the year. And that every month she's gonna come in, she's gonna get this book and whatever. So she is at first really upset and she's like, give me all 12 right now. And they won't because that was their agreement with her husb. And throughout the book you kind of see what books he chose for her. Some of them are purely just for pleasure reading. Some of them will teach her something. But each one was carefully selected by the man that she wishes was still here. And just what like a beautiful gift, right, to get from somebody that you've lost. I have been on my own grief journey in the last year and so honestly, if I ever get like a you're gonna die diagnosis, the people that get this 12 books will be like, I was at the top of her list. Like I would have to do that for somebody because it's just so beautiful. I already ordered a physical copy. Pre ordered it because I was like, I need to highlight this entire book.

A (42:05)

Something about this pitch is giving me P.S. i love you. Which is is I think maybe the movie that makes me sob the most uncontrollably. I haven't seen it in so long because I cannot handle it. Which makes me excited for but also nervous about this book in equal measure for my emotional well being.

G (42:27)

You will cry.

B (42:28)

I think the blurb on the COVID is something like the feel good book of the year. So I think it's. Oh wow. Very heartwarming is what I'm.

G (42:35)

In the end, you're just like, like so filled with love. Like this book is a love letter to books, friends, family, and also grief. And I think one of the things I always remind myself with grief is that we grieve so hard means that we had somebody that we loved so hard. And it's hard to remember that sometimes that like, how lucky are we to have had such love that we're grieving this hard for them? And so I think it really goes into a lot of that. But it is, it is so heartwarming. You just feel a big warm hug when you're finished reading it.

B (43:09)

I also love following this author on Instagram. Like I. Their Instagram presence is so fun and it's like great if you're a writer and author, but as a reader I think you'd love it too. And this one has a really beautiful cover as well. So I think this is going to be everywhere. It's already everywhere. And yeah, thank you so much for bringing that reminding us about it.

G (43:29)

You're welcome. I'm going to have to follow her now.

B (43:31)

Now. Yeah, she's. She's the best.

A (43:33)

What is the second book that you brought for us?

G (43:35)

So the second book is the End of the World by Ethan Joella. Have you guys read him before?

A (43:41)

No, I don't think heard of the author or the book.

G (43:44)

He's phenomenal. My favorite of his is A Quiet Life. You should both read it. You will also cry in that one because I have a theme today. My theme is grief, apparently. So I did read this book Made Me Think of youf. I have not read the End of the World yet, but it's about a woman who, her brother gets a diagnosis that is devastating, and he decides to basically run away to live out his last days. And so we kind of catch up with her as she is going to find him, and she finds the place where he spent his last days and she kind of unravels the secrets about the people that he met and connected with and loved. And it kind of explores sibling relationships, coming of age and human connection. And Ethan Joella is just such a phenomenal writer. His books are just filled to the brim with heart. I love a book that I end and I'm just like, my cup is full.

B (44:43)

And when does this one come out?

G (44:45)

This one comes out June 30th.

D (44:47)

Okay.

B (44:48)

So some things to look forward to.

G (44:50)

I will say I did get a arc of little one and I absolutely loved was so good. I was like, how do I choose Olivia's book for this?

B (45:01)

I wouldn't, I would not have allowed you to choose my book because that would be. It would be like a plant. It would be a plant.

D (45:07)

It would be a plant.

G (45:08)

But I will be there on February 3rd for your pub day night at Mainpoint Books with Allie, who also has a debut coming out that I also loved to bless Distraction. So those are all great reads coming out and I'm so excited for you.

B (45:21)

Yes. Shout out to her book, which, since we're here talking about books, if you like the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, you have to read her book. Because I know there are those of us out there that have somehow been sucked into this fandom, and I think you will appreciate it very much. But I'm excited to see you there.

A (45:37)

And Katie, if people want more of you and your recommendations, where can they find you on the Internet?

G (45:43)

You can find me on Instagram, @KatyNeedaBigger bookshelf, and less. I post less on TikTok, but on TikTok, it needs a bigger bookshelf.

A (45:56)

We're so excited to have Sarah MacLean with us, who is the author of 16 New York Times bestsellers that have been translated into more than 25 languages. She's also the co host of the weekly romance novel podcast Fated Mates and a leading voice in the romance genre. Sarah's most recent book, which you've definitely heard us talk about here, is these Summer Storms and was named one of the best books of 2020 by New York Times, Time, NPR, and more. A product of Rhode island summers and New England storms, Sarah now lives with her family in New York City. Sarah, I'm so happy to have you with us today.

D (46:28)

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. And thanks for being so kind about storms.

A (46:33)

Oh, well, I feel like this is a meeting of the podcast minds. We were just talking before we started recording that you do similar book preview episodes every quarter. So I'm so excited to hear what you've brought for us today and what's on your radar right now.

D (46:48)

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously I'm a romance novelist and a romance reader. So for me, romance, I always have my eyes out for a great new romance. And this year I'm really excited because two of my very favorite authors have new books coming out. The first is Kate Claybourne, who, she's a star and, you know, she has a real voice that is, it sort of rised up that line between, you know, commercial fiction, literary fiction, romance. She has this masterful ability to write a sentence that makes you, you know, feel immense emotion that evokes, you know, this new book called the Paris Match is set in Paris and it feels like every page is turning a corner in Paris. Ooh. The story is Laila, our heroine has, is one of these people who is a very big people pleaser, who we all know, we, a lot of us are this person. We all know this person. She's wildly successful in her own right. She's a doctor. But she was married to a man. When she divorced him, she decided she was going to stay friendly with his family and she sort of committed to it. Like she told herself and everyone around her that their divorce was amicable. And now her ex sister in law is getting married in Paris and has begged Layla to attend this wedding, this destination wedding with her ex, ex husband and his new girlfriend. And Laila turns up and the best man in this wedding, who is a real sort of romance hero, kind of gruff, quiet, scarred. A wonderful example of an, of a, of a perfect romance hero is there. And they have a sort of girls night before the wedding and the bride gets cold feet and tells everybody that the reason why she has cold feet is because of a conversation she had with Laila. And Laila's sort of blown up this wedding without even knowing how. And Griffin, the best man, basically comes to her and says, you have to fix this. And so this is the two of them kind of working together to get this bride and groom back into Their own marriage and falling in love at the same time. But really, what this is is a story about second chances. Not in love, but for ourselves. Like, Laila has to really interrogate who she is, what it means that she puts others first all the time, how that can be both healing and generous for us, but also incredibly stifling. Like how we change ourselves to make other people happy instead of making ourselves happy. And I think what's so great about all of Kate's and this book specifically, is that it's really about two people finding each other. Honestly, Griffin and Laila don't have to please each other. They don't try to please each other. They are antagonists through this book, and so by virtue of that, they learn to love each other for who they are.

A (50:00)

This sounds so good.

D (50:02)

Really grown up. It's a really grown up book.

B (50:05)

And I think, well, you just sold the hell out of it. That was great. Yeah.

D (50:08)

I mean, it's. It's just. I mean, I love. I love all romance, but this book, it just feels like the kind of book that you can sink into and lose yourself in and also learn yourself in. Yeah.

A (50:22)

Yeah. Oh, may we all have evangelists like you for our books. That was such a great show. That one comes out April 7, and it is now shot to the top of my list. I also.

D (50:34)

Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad.

A (50:36)

I love a. I don't know if we're calling it a destination romance. A romance on vacation.

D (50:42)

Yeah, I mean, me too. Because there's something about putting people together. You have to. If you take the fish out of water.

B (50:48)

Right.

D (50:49)

And if you take multiple fish out of water, it forces everybody to act in really curious ways.

A (50:55)

Yeah.

D (50:55)

And in many ways, it makes it harder for us to disguise ourselves because we are naturally uncomfortable.

A (51:02)

And also, I get to feel like I'm on a vacation without leaving my couch.

D (51:06)

Paris, no less.

A (51:08)

Yes, absolutely.

B (51:09)

Yeah.

D (51:10)

I mean, aside from all that, if you are a Paris lover, this book, it's just. It's a love letter to the city.

A (51:18)

And what is the second book you brought for us today?

D (51:20)

And the second book I brought is. So I'm a historical romance novelist. Almost all of my books, with the exception of these summer storms, are historical romance novels. And so I'm always drawn to love through history. And so my second book is Anna Callum, the Duke, which is. I mean, talk about a huge swing. If you are interested in historical fiction, what Anna has done here is created an alternate universe where an alternate version of history where women hold power and where women are able to, you know, hold aristocratic titles in England. I think what's interesting about this book is it is sort of a touchstone for what's happening throughout publishing with historicals. Historical romance and historical novelists are all this year, it seems, dancing around the outer edges of their genres, kind of trying to find new footholds in fiction. And this is a really great example. Obviously Anna, she's a tremendous writer and this alternate universe piece of the puzzle feels really expansive and cool. So the protagonist, Kate, the eponymous duke, she is a duke in England. And the that Anne has created is a little bit Regency England, but a lot post French revolution. Okay, so we meet Kate on this night when it's deep in the revolution and a woman, Selene, turns up at her door, a courtesan, and begs for help from her to be saved. So, you know, they have a one night stand, they have a kind of magnificent experience together. And Kate makes some promises that then she doesn't make good on. She sort of is in the wind in the morning. And three years later, Celene has returned to her. And this time Celene is sort of really in a bind. And she returns to Kate with information that will ruin her. So this is a book that like has a lot of political intrigue. Think revolution, right? Political intrigue, really scandalous secrets, the dangerously ambitious characters. And Celine basically produces a letter that will ruin Kate and says, if you don't help me find a partner, find a wife, find a marriage, I'm gonna reveal this to the world and you're gonna be ruined forever. And so this is actually holds a really like dear romance trope for me, which is you have to matchmake me, but also you're gonna fall in love with me at the same time. It's a really big, expansive, ambitious book and these two women are perfect for each other. Kate is very cold and controlled and Celine is very like hot and passionate. And the two of them make tons of mistakes with each other, which is all I want in romance is people making mistakes with each other. It's really sexy and clever and, and I think showcases how broad romance is and also how complex and interesting and relevant to the world that we live in that romance can be.

A (54:36)

Oh, this sounds very exciting. And now is this planned as a standalone or is this the start of a series?

D (54:42)

I think it's a standalone.

A (54:44)

Okay, great.

D (54:46)

That's a good question. I'm gonna look that up.

A (54:50)

I'm looking up the webpage right now and I think standalone. Oh, this sounds so exciting. I'm not traditionally historical fiction reader, but Sarah, I think I'm learning that if you pitch it, I'm interested.

D (55:05)

Well, listen, I mean, it's sexy, it's Sapphic, it's like big swings. Historical romance. My friend Adriana Herrera likes to say historical romance is the Broadway of literature. And I really think it is. I think that's a really interesting and cool way of describing it, because it is. Big feelings, big characters, big stories. There's always high stakes. Someone's always potentially going to be ruined, going to die. Scandal means absolute destruction. And that's really fun if you're willing to just let go and dive in.

A (55:40)

Also, the alternate history portion of that really appeals to me of maybe a slightly more feminist historical setting is really fascinating.

D (55:51)

Yeah, I think a lot of us work, you know, myself included. I'm writing historical right now. And, you know, we think so much about how to give women power within the confines of history, but I think it's really interesting that Anna has blown up the whole idea and said, like, well, what if we just recreate? We use the space we use. It gives us all the same limitations as history, right? Like there are no cell phones. There are. There's. Scandal still exists. All these things are still life or death stakes. But women can be just sort of naturally empowered by title, money, land.

A (56:25)

And now tell us what's coming from you this year, because I've heard that we have the paperback on the horizon for these summer storms, if people missed it the first time around. But then I was just on Goodreads and it looks like you also. I don't know if this is accurate.

D (56:39)

But it seems it's not the right date. Yes. So the paperback of these summer storms comes in May. That's exciting. People have been really kind about that book. It's been really well received. And if you love a dysfunctional family or have one, maybe you would enjoy these summer storms.

A (56:59)

It's like succession with a strong romance plot on a private island. Like, what could be better?

D (57:06)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And a, you know, a family that is simultaneously just loathsome and you can't help but love is my. My hope, at least. And then in the fall, a historical is coming. The final book in my Hell's Bell series, which is a series about essentially a girl gang in Victorian London based on a real life girl gang in Victorian London called the 40 elephants. When I came up with this series, I sort of thought, well, there's sort of a classic gang in media, right? The femme fatale the thief, the explosives expert, and the one who has the plan who pulls it all together. And this is the fourth book. It is the mastermind of the group and she is falling in love with a man who the whole world thinks she's married to, but in actual fact, she's just been pretending to be married to him while he was far away. So he turns up in London after eight years to discover that he has a fake wife, and then for reasons, they have to run together across England. So it's a little bit of a road trip, a little bit of a. It's very much a sort of rivals to lovers story. And ultimately, I think we talked about stakes already with historicals, but it's a you and me against the world story, which is feeling really, really relevant right now in 2026.

B (58:35)

So.

A (58:36)

Absolutely, absolutely.

D (58:38)

So that's Mastermind, and it comes out at the end of the year.

A (58:40)

You could not have been a more generous guest pitching these books for us. But if people want to find more of you and keep up with you, where can they find you on the Internet?

D (58:51)

I am on Instagram Sarah McLean. I'm on threads a little bit as Sarah McLean, but the best place to find me is the podcast, which is Fated Mates. If you love romance novels. Fated Mates is a weekly romance novel podcast. We talk about tropes and why they work in the genre. We talk about. We do deep dives of books that we think are wonderful and showcase the genre really well. We interview voices from the genre, from the early days of the genre, and that's available wherever you get your podcast. Podcast, but it's fatedmates.net and we are out every Wednesday.

B (59:30)

Becca, what books have you brought for us?

A (59:33)

Well, I have to tell you that I was very tempted to bring Little One and you said something in one of the interviews that you were Somebody said that they thought about it and they didn't know if you'd let them. And in my head I was like, well, she can't stop me. But I didn't want to make you uncomfortable, but I do feel like I just want to give up. Quick plug in case this episode has brought anyone who is not a regular listener and hasn't heard about the fantastic book that you wrote that is coming out February 3rd. I mean, I am not a thriller or suspense reader by any stretch of the imagination. I probably read two or three a year. I was so deep in my own edit pass and I had no brain power. And the day that it arrived I was like, well, I'm gonna just Open it. I'll read the first chapter. I just. I wanna support Olivia. I wanna take a picture of it. I wanna. You know, I wanna celebrate this. Olivia, I did not move until I finished it. It's the now and then timelines I found to be so addictive. And it wasn't scary at all for me. I. I just could not stop turning the pages until. Until I was done. I feel weird. Should I give the synopsis? I feel weird summarizing it to you, but I feel like I should say what it's about.

B (60:53)

No, no, no, you've done enough. I appreciate it so much.

A (60:56)

Can you give us just like the two sentence what it's about me? Yeah, I mean, I didn't really give Adult.

B (61:03)

I'll do it. First of all, thank you so much. I would not have let you bring it. There's a lot of other books to talk about and give space to, but thank you for giving its own little seg. Yes, little one. Out on February 3rd. And it is about Catherine. And it is, as Becca said, a dual timeline story. In the past, we see her growing up in this cult like, rural community off the grid in Florida. And in the present timeline, we meet her in the city as a successful adult when a journalist starts digging into her past and starts to bring all of her secrets to the circle, the surface.

A (61:41)

Oh, my gosh. So good.

B (61:43)

Well, tell me about some other books that we have to look forward to.

A (61:47)

Okay. The first book that I brought is called the Book Witch by Meg Shafer, and that is out April 7th. And this is the same author who wrote the Wishing Game a few years ago, which I tremendously enjoyed. I feel like I'm saying tremendously a lot. This episode, this book is about a book witch. So, you know, it's a little bit of a cozy fantasy vibe. And a book witch can go inside any book. And the book witches are tasked with protecting them specifically from the book burners who are trying to destroy stories from the inside. And Rhaenie is a fantastic book witch until she does something that is very against the rules, which is fall in love with a fictional character from her fate favorite series. And this book is so warm and cozy, and it is such an ode to book lovers and book people. And I started reading it and I was like, this is very cute. And I don't know, maybe like 25 or 30% of the way. And I was like, okay, I get it. I don't know if I can read a whole book of this premise. And it ended up going in directions that surprised me a ton. I ended up sobbing at one point. I thought this book was so spectacular. I think this is gonna be a big book club pick for in person. Book clubs, meaning I think people who love reading will wanna read this together.

B (63:20)

I think that's a major trend that is happening right now is like books about books.

A (63:24)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (63:26)

I think that's going to continue to be a thing. But this sounds great. I've heard wonderful things.

A (63:31)

I really loved it.

B (63:32)

What's your next pick?

A (63:34)

Okay, my next one I have not read yet, but I am excited about and it's called Dear Monica Lewinsky by Julia Lang Bean, and it's out April 14th. And so I heard about this book because Katie Hayes, who is the author of the Cloisters and Saltwater, was in the comment section of my newsletter raving about how much she loved this book. And I always love when an author raves about a book. I'm always listening. I want to know what informs other authors, tastes, what they find to be unique or special or different or inspiring. And so that put it on my radar. And then since then, I've been hearing here and there, positive reviews, just saying how weird and excellent this is. So the premise of the book is a woman in her 40s had a kind of scandalous, inappropriate relationship with one of her professors when she was studying abroad in college. And she gets invited to his retirement party. That then causes her to start to reflect back on this experience. And she digs out all of her old journals from that summer, and she realizes that it also happened to be the summer of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and she had not connected those dots at the time. And she's recontextualizing both her own experience and then everything that happened in the Bill Clinton Monica Lewinsky sex scandal in the late 90s through a much more mature lens and also through a different, different era of pop culture. And so I'm very interested in this in general. But then having heard these raves about how weird and wonderful it is, I'm even more excited.

B (65:32)

I've heard, I actually think it was Katie Hayes who told me directly, at some point, you have to read this. I can't remember in what context, but I have also heard a ton about this book and I'm really, really looking forward to reading.

A (65:45)

I've also been seeing a lot of Monica Lewinsky podcast clips from her new podcast. And I'm just always so impressed by how poised she is and how empathetic she is. And I don't know, like, I'M I'm very curious to re examine it myself. I was, I guess I think it was the summer of 1998, so I would have been 12. So I was definitely thinking about it through a very different lens than I would now.

B (66:14)

Did you watch the show?

A (66:16)

No, I didn't.

B (66:17)

I never did either. Maybe one episode, I can't remember. But yeah, this sounds great. I wonder if she's gonna like go on her podcast.

A (66:24)

I don't know. I. Yeah, I, I wonder how she feels about being part of another piece of pop culture or if she was just like, leave me alone.

B (66:34)

Yeah, it's probably very complicated set of feelings when it comes to, to pop culture and media. Well, let's take one more ad break and then we'll get into some n matter.

A (66:49)

This episode is sponsored by Skims, which I am so excited to say because if you've been a listener here for a medium amount of time, you might remember that a few years ago I ended up switching out all of my underwear to the Skim Sims Fits Everybody thong. Because I had a few and I was like, life's too short. I'm an adult. I should have only the kind of underwear I like. I don't need to have ratty underwear from the Obama administration. I can have all good underwear. And these are my favorites. They are so comfortable. They do not create lines under clothes and they don't move, which is a problem I've had with other brands where, where, you know, it rolls down, it gets baggy. These stay the way they start. I only want to wear these. And then I also like the high rise brief as well.

B (67:41)

And I've been a committed wearer of skims bras for years now. They're the only bras I wear under all my everyday outfits. And I actually just added two more to my collection a couple months ago, so they are just the best. I'm. I'm a believer. And now I love the Fits Everybody collection as well. Well, specifically the boy shorts, which are lightweight, breathable and look great under basically any kind of clothing. They're the type of underwear that feel just as good under a fancy outfit as they do under sweats. And that is a hard combination to meet. And they do that.

A (68:13)

So if you're ready to experience this shop Skims Fits everybody collection@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you select podcast on the survey and then be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gift for your valentine or for yourself. The Skims Valentine shop is now open.

B (68:39)

Well, what are you obsessed with, Becca? I have no obsession this week, so I want to hear about yours.

A (68:44)

I'm obsessed with the Traders, the US version. I'm not a big reality TV person, but I have found myself. It's so cold. I want to have a show. I like that it's a cultural moment. I have a ton of friends who watch it. So I decided to start watching this season of Traitors and I'm enjoying it so much. I'm also enjoying last night the new episodes came out and I was texting with my friend Elizabeth as we were watching it kind of in tandem. Like, I like the show. The show is fun. I love Alan Cumming. I love Alan Cumming's outfit. But because I don't watch reality tv, I don't. I don't have a pre existing fandom for a lot of the contestants. So I'm really kind of like judging them in these four walls. But I'm really, I'm really liking the experience of just like being in on the. The conversation.

B (69:36)

Is that silly? Donna Kelsey's on this season, right?

A (69:38)

She is.

B (69:39)

And no, it's not silly. I mean, I'm going to watch Heated Rivalry for so many reasons, but specifically because I want to be part of it.

A (69:46)

Well, because it's the best show of recent history and you need to, you need to experience it.

B (69:55)

Well, now I'm.

A (69:56)

You need to go to the cottage.

B (69:57)

The video content and so well, it was actually really funny. I was filming my day in the Life yesterday and it's infiltrated my brain so much that when I was walking into my writing cottage, I was like, going into the cottage. I haven't even watched it.

A (70:10)

That's actually such a wild level of reading that you understand not jokes, but like you can make a joke about a show you haven't watched in a particular accent that like, it's as if you've watched the show.

B (70:26)

I know, it's crazy. I'm actually really looking forward to it because I'm in my mind. I'm saving it for my post tour. Like, post event. Oh, I have to wait long. I like having TV shows to look forward to. I create little, like, moments. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get home from the event. I'm going to change into comfy clothes. I'm going to order ubereats and I'm going to watch an episode of Heated Rivalry. And that to me, like, the anticipation of it is really great.

A (70:49)

I mean, I know the thing is is that I do feel like it lends itself to re watching so you could always comfort re watch it after.

B (70:58)

Becca. I have a friend who told me yesterday they have watched it five times.

A (71:03)

I'm not surprised. I've watched it all the way through twice. But then I've watched certain episodes probably four times.

B (71:13)

Amazing. Amazing. I can't wait. I'm so excited.

A (71:17)

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Also I said this on Instagram. I felt like I was such a weirdo in the last episode because I didn't mention any of the characters names or the actors names which I obviously know because I was talking to you who had not watched the show.

B (71:33)

Oh, but I know them too.

A (71:35)

Oh, you do?

C (71:35)

Oh okay.

A (71:36)

But then I forgot the story.

B (71:37)

Hudson Williams.

A (71:38)

Yeah. And then I forgot that I was talking to the listeners who did know and I was listening to QA the episode and I was like I sound like I'm talking about Voldemort. Like I sound like I'm like specifically going out of my way not to name them.

B (71:51)

I didn't even notice. But that's so funny. No, well I'm. I'm fully in. I like understand all the things now I can't to the Internet.

A (71:57)

Are we going to have the world's most belated emergency episode about heated rivalry?

D (72:03)

Maybe.

B (72:05)

We do have an open slot in February actually. So those.

A (72:09)

Wow, wow, wow, wow. What about reading? What did you read this week?

B (72:14)

Okay, well, I don't have an obsession but I do have a book I am obsessed with and that is Vantage Point by Sarah Sligar. She also wrote the novel Take Me Apart which I read, I don't know, towards the end of last year and I really liked it. Literary thriller. This one came out last year. Take Me Apart had come out maybe 2021, 2022. I loved this book. It was such a page turning mystery. But the writing is so descriptive and beautiful. The premise of this is it centers around a family who is not unlike the Kennedys and they have this kind of curse. And so interspersed between the chapters there are these Wikipedia entries or like Wikipedia esque entries of all the different people in the family who have died in all of these absurd ways. Kind of like you're reading about the Kennedys. This happened, then this happened, then this happened. All these terrible things. And I thought that was so clever just as a way to have a different type of writing in between the actual pages of the novel. So essentially this is about these, these Two siblings and their parents have died because of this curse. They have inherited this giant estate in coastal Maine called Vantage Point. And so it's, you know, it's Maine. It's very island. Like. I like anything set on an island, man. I guess this is all I need by the ocean. And it's about kind of all of the struggles that the sister and these two siblings has dealt with. And essentially she starts seeing things and they have to figure out whether they're real or not. And I don't want to give too much away, but it has a lot to do with, with. Oh, gosh, I can't. I can't say I'll give things away.

A (74:02)

Will this be too scary for me?

B (74:05)

No, I didn't find it scary. I found it dark and unsettling and it is quite dark. Very. But. Oh, I just, I loved it. It was the best thriller I've read in so long. I can't recommend this enough to people. If you have similar tastes to me, I think you will love it. I emailed the author and I was like this slapped. Not those exact words. I would never email those words. But essentially I was like, amazing. I will pre order your next book. First in line. So impressive. I loved it. Oh, in the last few paragraphs, it really scratched an itch for me. I can't. I just thought it was perfect. I thought it was perfect. I don't know why it hasn't. Got more buzz. Here I am buzzing. Oh, wow.

A (74:48)

The Kennedy curse and the main aspects of this are both really appealing to me. I might have to give this one a shot.

B (74:55)

Yeah, it's real, real good. I don't know why I said real, real good.

A (74:59)

But you did.

B (75:02)

What have you read?

A (75:03)

Okay, so I read One and Only by Maureen Goo, which shares a pub date with little one. So it comes out February 3rd and Maureen Goo is a popular YA author and this is her first adult romance. And. And it is about a Korean American woman whose family business is matchmaking. And there's like a magical realism element to it. And so they matchmake by reading people's past lives. And so she knows the identity of her fated match, but she has not found him in her present life. And she meets this much younger man and decides to have this very out of character fling with him. And around the same time she ends up, through happenstance, meeting her fated match. So it's a little bit of a love triangle of like, who do you choose? I enjoyed this so much. I felt like the writing was really self assured in A way. Like, I just felt like I was in good hands from the very beginning. I would say one of the comps for this book was the Joy Luck Club. And I don't remember what it was like something meets the Joy Luck Club. I would say Rebecca Searle meets the Joy Luck Club. Like a kind of slightly magical but very grounded type of speculative fiction. And I liked that the main character was 40. She was a mature woman who had a strong sense of sex. And I loved also this had one of my favorite things in writing, which is really good descriptions of outfits and really good descriptions of food.

B (76:48)

Fun. Sounds like fun all around.

A (76:50)

It was really fun. And I also liked that because she works in a family business, there was a lot of quirky older lady characters, which, you know, I'm also a sucker for.

B (76:59)

It sounds great.

A (77:00)

Well, if you don't have enough book recs from this episode, first of all, how greedy are you? But second of all, no problem because we have our January book club pick, which is Best Offer Wins by Marisa Cascino. This book is about a woman living in D.C. who is trying to get pregnant and trying to buy a house with her husband. And neither of those things is going particularly well. And she finds out about. About this dream house and her dream neighborhood that's about to go on the market, and she decides to take matters into her own hands and do some questionable and increasingly illegal things to get it.

B (77:42)

I just started reading this. It is. It is like sharp and breezy.

A (77:46)

It is breezy. It is fast. Go through it. It is fast. And this is a book too, where I thought I understood where it was going. And then the thing that I thought was going to be the, you know, like the big confrontation at the end of the book happened at, let's call it 25%. And I was like, oh, I have no idea where we're going. And that's fun.

B (78:07)

Interesting. I just got to a really cringy part, so I'm excited to keep going and grimy and cringey in a good way. For the record.

A (78:14)

Yeah, this is definitely like an unhinged, unlikable character book. So I'm very excited to discuss it with you on next week's episode.

C (78:22)

Episode.

B (78:23)

Me too. If you want to talk to us about any of this or tell us what books you're excited about in the new year, you can join us in the Facebook group, which is under Baton Paper Podcast. Our Instagram is bad on Paper Podcast. We have a BFF group, which is under Baton Paper Podcast. I am on Instagram at Olivia Mentor and substack at Olivia Mentor. You can pre order a copy of my book Little one which comes out and I think when you listen to it this like two weeks under two weeks freaking out. And please consider joining us on tour. New York City is officially sold out but there are still a lot of tickets in Chicago and Clearwater and lots of other places. There's a link in the show notes and my website for all of that information. Please come see me so I'm not alone in a cavernous room. That's all I ask. I thank you. Okay, goodbye.

A (79:16)

I'm on Instagram at Becca M. Freeman. My substack is at Becca Freeman substack.com I'm lurking so much on heated rivalry threads TBD. How participatory I'm going to be. But I'm there. I'm reading your threads. If you're talking about it, maybe I'm there too.

B (79:31)

Honestly, give me some days.

A (79:33)

Let's go.

B (79:34)

Bye.