Loading summary
Transcript302 lines
- [00:18]
Olivia Mentor
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bad on Paper podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.
- [00:22]
Becca Freeman
And I'm Becca Freeman.
- [00:24]
Olivia Mentor
And today is one of our favorite types of episodes in the year. It's our reading preview for books coming out June 2026 through December.
- [00:34]
Becca Freeman
And we have four amazing guest recommenders, plus we have two recommendations each. So we're coming at you with 12 recommendations, plus some of the books that our guests wrote.
- [00:48]
Olivia Mentor
But before we get to all of that, plus some highs and lows, of course, we wanted to mention that this episode is sponsored by Sol de Janeiro, the Brazilian inspired self care brand that we are partnering for our summer of soul. And we have some really exciting updates for you later in this episode about our upcoming Chicago event on July 22nd. So we cannot wait to tell you more about that.
- [01:12]
Becca Freeman
Well, before we get to that, tell me your high.
- [01:16]
Olivia Mentor
My high is that I had a lovely summer evening. A couple. It feels like so long ago now. We're recording this a little bit late because it was so hot in my office last weekend that I kind of had a. I don't even know what it was a meltdown. I was like, we can't do this, Becca. We have to move this. And so we did. So anyway, this high seems so long ago now, but before the heat wave, Jake and I went to Albany one Sunday evening and we got dinner at Cheesecake Factory.
- [01:50]
Becca Freeman
What's your go to there?
- [01:52]
Olivia Mentor
I haven't been in so long. So I naturally was really overwhelmed. But I landed on. We got nachos for an appetizer. Okay, great, great. And then I ended up getting something from the Skinnylicious menu, which I do feel needs a rebrand. But it was so phenomenally good. I can't explain to you how good this was. It was like a chicken, an Asian chicken, lettuce wrap. It had like rice noodles, lots of vegetables, grilled chicken, delicious sauces. It was so good that I not only want to go back and get it, but I would like to make it myself. It was delicious. So we sat outside. We had a lovely view of the Colony center parking lot, but it was the perfect weather. And then afterward, we went to the movies and we saw Obsession, which is a scary movie I've been wanting to see. Cause I've heard so much about. And it was very scary. But it was kind of like a funny scary, you know, like you're horrified, but you're also sort of giggling. And it was just the perfect Sunday evening, summer day, weekend night for me. It was just great.
- [03:06]
Becca Freeman
Oh, I'm so happy for You.
- [03:08]
Olivia Mentor
Thank you. It was. It was really lovely. I can't wait to do it again and get the lettuce wraps. Again, importantly, do you have a Go to Cheesecake Factory order?
- [03:18]
Becca Freeman
Kind of. So I love the buffalo blasts, which is kind of like a buffalo chicken, crab rangoon, kind of.
- [03:27]
Olivia Mentor
But I did see those in think of you.
- [03:29]
Becca Freeman
Well, they have taken them off a lot of the menus in places because I think it has too much sodium, that it's.
- [03:35]
Olivia Mentor
Oh, not in my Cheesecake Factory.
- [03:38]
Becca Freeman
Well, get them. They're so good. So if. If that's an option. I like that there's a salad. I don't know the name of it, but it's kind of like a Mexican Y salad with beans and corn that I like there. And I also like the Louisiana chicken pasta.
- [03:53]
Olivia Mentor
Okay. That's a famous one, right?
- [03:56]
Becca Freeman
Yeah.
- [03:56]
Olivia Mentor
I also know the Mac and cheese balls are famous, but I didn't get those. Those don't appeal to me, really. But, I mean, I want to go back. It was a surprisingly fresh meal. I have to say, I was really impressed as someone who's eating a lot of chain food right now. But tell me about your high.
- [04:17]
Becca Freeman
My high is also food related. So the other weekend, I did my annual Red Hook day with a bunch of girlfriends. And every year we go to the Red Hook Winery. And people have gotten very mad at me in the past about this, but I need to tell you that the wine is not good. I don't want to send anyone there accidentally being like, Becca loves this place. She goes every year. And then they go and are like, what is she thinking? So we're going for the tradition. It has a great view. It's very beautiful. I love going to Red Hook. The area, the wine is bad, so we. We do this, and we've kind of brought somebody new every year. And so it's almost like a hazing ritual of getting to see them taste the wine. Wine. So we did that.
- [05:06]
Olivia Mentor
I see.
- [05:08]
Becca Freeman
And then we went to my favorite place, which is Brooklyn Crab, which is kind of this, like, weird seafood shack in Red Hook. And we got. I don't know what you would call it, like a clam bake, basically. Not a clam bake because there were no clams, but it's like crab and lobster and corn. Like a seafood boil. Oh, my God. It was so, so good. I was so happy.
- [05:33]
Olivia Mentor
Was this also before the heat wave?
- [05:35]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, it was before the heat wave. It was great weather. They also have, like, a really happening World cup scene there. Like, they had huge Screens up in the yard. And so a lot of people were there watching the World cup, and it was really fun.
- [05:49]
Olivia Mentor
That sounds very fun. Yeah, there's a lot of things going on right now. The World cup, there's just the holiday weekend, summer events. Everything is in full swing.
- [05:58]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah.
- [05:59]
Becca Freeman
Well, what about the low side? What's. What's not in full swing?
- [06:03]
Olivia Mentor
Oh, the low. The low is a low. So the other day, Jake and I were sitting in the living room watching tv. And earlier that day he had said, you know, the kitchen renovation is going so well. So far, nothing has. There's been no bad surprises. And I was like, don't you. I was like, take those words out of your mouth this second. Anyway, so we're sitting there hours later on the couch still, I guess, and watching a movie or something, and it was raining, but, you know, we hadn't gotten any storm warnings or, you know, nothing. And all of a sudden we hear this huge crash, like glass shattering.
- [06:41]
Becca Freeman
Oh, my gosh.
- [06:42]
Olivia Mentor
And I was like, what is happening? And so we go around the house trying to look for what it could be Jake had left. We sometimes open one of the windows in the attic because it really helps with getting the heat out as it rises. And so I was like, okay, he left it open. One of the windows probably slammed shut or something. We couldn't figure it out. And then we discovered that one of the windows in our dining room, which is attached to the kitchen, and it's currently full of just random stuff we've put in there. As we've been doing the renovation, a branch had come from a tree in our front yard across our porch through the storm window glass and then through the inside window glass, like pedoed through. And it's kind of hard to explain unless you've been to the house, but
- [07:30]
Becca Freeman
it broke off the tree or it just swung on the tree.
- [07:35]
Olivia Mentor
It broke off the tree and torpedoed through both panes of glass. And there's the storm window, and then there's like 4 inches and then there's the other window. So it really just. It was on a mission through both. It was. And then of course, we looked outside and we had five or six, 10 or 20 foot limbs just down. So it was this like micro burst of a storm that had just taken out a ton of limbs. I. I think it was like 60 mile per hour winds I saw afterwards. So in the end, I think we got really lucky that it was just that window. It is kind of sad because it's the original old glass, which I Do love. But luckily we have people here and they can replace it. But I was like, of course there's. And it was like 100 degrees and we're out there like, you know, taping a plastic bag to the window. Anyway, it was just very bizarre and weirdly, it just came out of nowhere, so. Which is what happened actually two 4th of July weekends ago with the tree that fell in our barn. So I don't know, it's a cursed weekend, I guess. But oh man, we're all okay. It's fixable. Didn't fall in our car, didn't fall in our roof, didn't break the new windows, which really would have been a different kind of pain. So it's all good. But it was annoying because I was like, okay, yeah, here's the surprise thing we have to deal with. What's your low?
- [09:01]
Becca Freeman
Okay, I am making a game time decision that I think I'm going to see save Milo for next week's three things because it's a larger topic that I think I would like to get your opinion on and how it comes up in your writing process. So I'm going to abstain for now, but you will hear about it next week.
- [09:19]
Olivia Mentor
Okay, I can't wait. Well, let's take an ad break and then we will get into all of these books. This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. As I was just saying, the other evening, it was both storming outside and extremely hot. And I have to say that it was the most amazing feeling to just be able to get into the ac, to change out of my day clothes and get into cool, comfortable loungewear and sit in front of the TV and just feel relaxed and turn my brain off. And there's something about getting into bed with my Cozy Earth bamboo sheets that give me the same feeling. They are cozy and comforting, but also cool to the touch instead of hot. And they stay that way. They don't get warmer as you cuddle in bed. And it is the ultimate feeling of relaxation after a long, hot, sticky summer day.
- [10:18]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so if I was describing Cozy Earth sheets to somebody who had never tried them before, they come out of the package feeling a little bit satini, which is not for me. I do not like slippery sheets. And once you wash them for the first time, they become these perfect, soft, like, washed sheets that just feel like you've had them for forever in a good way. And then the longer you wash them, the better and better they get. Like, I think I've had my pair that I've had the longest, maybe going on like five or six years. First of all they look great, but second of all they are so soft like the best. And Cozy Earth stands behind everything they make. They have a 10 year warranty and 100 nights of hassle free returns on bedding. So if you want to try it but you're not quite convinced, it's very easy to return if you don't like it.
- [11:14]
Olivia Mentor
They're made from viscose from bamboo so they are breathable, soft and built for summer. You can head to cozyearth.com and use our code BOP for an exclusive 20% off your sheets or anything else you'd like. That's Code Bop for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post purchase survey mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on Badon Paper. We are so excited to have Cynthia Dupree Sweeney with us today. Cynthia is the author of the instant New York Times best selling novels the Nest, which was named a best book of the year by People, the Washington Post and NPR and and Good Company, which was a read with Jenna selection. Her work has been translated into more than 28 languages and the Nest is in development as a limited series with AMC Studios. Her latest novel, Lake Effect came out in April and was named one of the best books of the year so far by Amazon. And also Becca and I both immensely enjoyed it, which you've already heard about if you're a podcast listener. She and her husband live in New York City and we're so excited to have her here.
- [12:24]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
I'm so happy.
- [12:24]
Olivia Mentor
Welcome Cynthia.
- [12:25]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Thank you, thank you. I'm thrilled to get to talk to you about other people's books.
- [12:30]
Becca Freeman
Well, tell us what you brought for us. What's the first book that you brought to recommend?
- [12:34]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
The first book I brought, which I just started yesterday, it came out I think last week, is Villa Coco by Andrew Shangrier.
- [12:41]
Becca Freeman
Oh, I've been wanting to read that one.
- [12:42]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yeah, I love his books. I loved Les so much. That was one of those books that came out and I read it and I have a lot of summer birthdays in my life and that's what everyone got for their summer beach bag. So this latest one is centers on a young gay man in the 90s, late, very late 90s, and he's graduated from college and he has had a not very successful undergraduate career because as the character describes it, he arrived sort of as a closeted gay man and then just became a very hedonist gay man for three and a half years, almost flunked out of school and one of his advisors recommends that he apply for this job in Italy as an archivist. And he gets the job and goes there, and it's this eccentric Italian baronessa and her sort of crew of characters, and he doesn't speak Italian. And it's. I've probably read 35 pages, and it hits just such a sweet spot for me, as all of his books do, which is they're beautifully written, they're deeply funny, but he doesn't shy away from the harder emotions either. But then ultimately, he just has such an optimistic spirit. And so it's like a romp. But it's also really smart about life and love and the world. And so I'm already enjoying it, and I feel like it's like a perfect summer.
- [14:17]
Becca Freeman
Ready?
- [14:18]
John Glynn
Ooh.
- [14:18]
Becca Freeman
I'm so excited for this. I feel like our listeners know that one of my favorite niche things you can throw into a book is a quirky but surprisingly wise old lady character. So this sounds right up my alley.
- [14:31]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Like, the first. Like the first paragraph of the book. He just lands at this sort of rundown Italian train, you know, train station in Tuscany, and some old character picks him up who doesn't even speak English, but is also not speaking Italian. So I'm just like. I'm just right there in it. It's really fun.
- [14:48]
Olivia Mentor
I also have to say, this has a gorgeous cover, but it's a cover that, when you see it in person, it really just is a whole different experience. It is so true.
- [14:57]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
I was just. Just before I was signed down with you guys, I, like, really looked at it for the first time, and it's really beautiful. And it kind of doesn't have the same impact when you see a picture of it or even when you're glancing at it quickly on the shelf when you have a minute to look at it. It's a really, really beautiful illustration.
- [15:18]
Olivia Mentor
Well, what is your second pick for us?
- [15:20]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Okay, so my second book comes out September 29, and it's American Hagwon by Min Jin Lee. And I am so, like, I am dying to get my hands on this book, but I also kind of want to wait until it comes. I'm like, do I shake the trees for a galley, or do I just wait and get it? And I don't know a lot about it because I don't like to know a lot about a book that I'm really looking forward to. I do know that it follows one Korean family. I think it goes from the late 90s to the mid 2000s, and they emigrate From Korea to Australia to Southern California. And it's about, you know, all of their trials and tribulations, but also about the Hagwon system, which is the education system that's called, like a cram school in Korea. So it's the school that kids go to after regular school to get an edge, to get an academic edge. And they're very common and very popular. And I saw an interview with Min Jin Lee where she talked about wanting to understand Koreans, obsession with education. And that was one of the things that propelled this book, which is the third in the trilogy, starting with Fast Food for American Millionaires. That might not be the exact right title. And then Pachinko and now this one. And Pachinko is just one of those books that was a perfect reading experience for me and one of those times that you revisit just because it was so profound and deep. It was like early in 2021, and my husband and I went away for the weekend and I had had pachinko sitting on my shelf for years, and I just grabbed it. And my memory of that weekend is sitting on the porch of this little hotel just reading that book and being completely taken away by it. And I'm feel like that's gonna happen again. So I'm very, very excited for that one.
- [17:18]
Becca Freeman
We were just talking about this maybe two weeks ago on the podcast. Olivia shares your feelings about Pachinko and I've never read it. It's one of those books that I always have intention to read, but sometimes I kind of get caught up on the carousel of new releases and I never read it. So I think I'm officially. I'm making it one of my summer goals to read Pachinko.
- [17:40]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
I think it's a great summer book, but also I recommend it to people all the time. But I mean, I didn't read it for so long, partly, I think, because I was writing a book and I have like a very different reading vibe depending where I am in a book. And sometimes I just can't fall into someone else's book in a way that I want to. But I also just feel like you have to know when you're ready for, like a big book and when you're not. So I. Because I just had a book come out and I'm not working on a new book. I'm really in for, like, big, juicy books this summer and I'm asking everyone what I should read. But I just think that, yeah, like, you have to know whether or not you're in that mental space to like, just clear everything off the deck. And it's hard when you're in the book business. There's always stuff coming in, you know, like across the transom constantly. And sometimes you have to stop to, you know, read books and blurt books and do favors and. But yeah, it's. I think it's a really, really good summer book. I mean, I think it's good for any time of year, but if you have some time, it's a classic.
- [18:54]
Olivia Mentor
I think it'll stand the test of time. Can I ask, what are your reading habits when you're writing? Do you avoid a similar genre, or are you kind of just more picky?
- [19:06]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
When I'm starting, I'll read anything, but then I reach a point in the book where, yeah, I have to kind of avoid things that are too similar, that feel too similar. Not really in content, but writers who, I feel like, have a similar cadence and voice. And sometimes when I finish a book, I can. I go back and I read it, and I'm like, why does that paragraph sound weird? And it's like I was reading someone else's book, and I accidentally picked up a little bit of their rhythm, and it doesn't sound like me when I'm really in, like, the horry middle and tearing my hair out. I just really want to be diverted. So I. I. Then I'll. I'll be, like, reading celebrity memoirs or nonfiction or, like, classic fiction. I tend to steer away from contemporary fiction when I'm having a hard time. And then when I'm sort of cruising to the end, then I sort of want people to rub off on me a little bit. So I'm thinking about, like, when I wrote the end of Lake Effect. I was at Ragdale, and I brought Stoner with me because I knew I wanted some of that. The feel of the end of that book to maybe infiltrate how I was writing the end. And, yeah, so those are sort of, like, my phases of reading.
- [20:31]
Becca Freeman
I feel like you're gonna think that I'm blowing smoke right now, but I'm reading the Nest right now as I'm starting on my third book, and it's a multi POV family novel. So I'm kind of just, like, immersing myself in multi POV novels because the most POVs I've ever written is two. So I'm kind of like, oh, how do you balance more than that?
- [20:53]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
The nest has, like, 11. Don't do that.
- [20:55]
Becca Freeman
I'm not doing that. There's four right now. But I'm like, that was Like a beginner's mistake. I was like, how did I ever
- [21:03]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
think that was a good idea? So, yeah, don't do it.
- [21:07]
Becca Freeman
But I'm finding it. So I just. I finished Lake Effect this spring, and I was like, oh, I should go back to the nest for more kind of inspo on multi POV novels. So I'm really enjoying it.
- [21:20]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
I mean, I love writing multiple pov. All three of my books are in varying degrees. But, yeah, I'm happy to talk to you about it whenever it feels overwhelming
- [21:29]
Becca Freeman
not having done multiple POVs to figure out how to give everyone kind of their own arc.
- [21:36]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yes. And then weaving them in and out is the hard part, but it's also so satisfying. I mean, to me, it's so satisfying to be able to step into everyone's head. And, you know, my goal is always like, well, I'm. You know, there's always your story, their story, and then the story. And I like being able to go around and kind of give the reader that extra little juice of figuring out what they think the story is. And, yeah, it's fun, but I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try not to do it the next time. We'll see.
- [22:12]
Becca Freeman
Oh, fascinating. We're on opposite trajectories.
- [22:15]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yes.
- [22:15]
Becca Freeman
I feel like multi POV is also one of my favorite things as a reader, so it' exciting to kind of, like, try my hand at it.
- [22:21]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Becca Freeman
But speaking of multi POV family novels, I mean, our listeners have obviously heard about Lake Effect because we've both read it recently and enjoyed it. But can you give us the pitch for it? Because I always feel like it's more impactful to hear it directly from the author's mouth.
- [22:38]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yes. Well, it takes place mostly. It opens in 1977 in Rochester, New
- [22:44]
Olivia Mentor
York, where I grew up.
- [22:46]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
And it follows two families who live across the street from one another, and the husband from one family and the wife from the other family fall in love. And they have to decide. They're both in unsatisfactory marriages, and they have to decide what they're going to do. And the decision that they make really affects every single member of that family for decades to come, and even their community.
- [23:12]
Becca Freeman
I find it so it's like almost like a social gossip novel where you even get POVs of other people who are seemingly so unrelated, who are affected by the dissolution of their marriage.
- [23:28]
Corey Ann Haydu
Right.
- [23:28]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Well, I'm like, exactly the age of Clara in the novel. I was 17 in 1977. And I remember very clearly when my friend's parents Started getting divorced and when my parents, friends started getting divorced and it was very new and very scandalous and very much a source of constant conversation and judgment and other people's opinions. And it really like deeply affected me as a teenager. And I think that's one reason why I wanted the book set in that time with that situation.
- [24:09]
Olivia Mentor
I have to also say there's a lot of stuff about like body image and diet culture in the 1970s that I thought was so well done. Yeah. There were just so many aspects of it.
- [24:20]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yeah. I mean, thank you. It was very. I mean, it was very true to my life and it was sadly very true of my mom's life. She was someone who just, I mean, she was never not on a diet and she was never not talking about her weight or what size dress she was wearing or quite frankly, sending me and my sister to weight loss programs. So it was something that was very much of that era and really very much of any era. Things have changed somewhat in the past decade and they're changing quite dramatically now in that regard and good ways and bad ways. But it was just really growing up as a young girl in the 70s and 80s, you just felt like everyone had access to having an opinion about your body and felt very free to tell you what that was. And it's bonkers to me, but that was another thing that I just felt so viscerally something that I had to figure out what I believed, you know, what part of your family. And I always talk about this a lot with the nest, which is like when you're born into a family, you inherit an entire story about yourself. And part of becoming adult is figuring out what part of that story you think is true and applies to you and what doesn't. And so like developing my own sense of a body image was really hard. And yeah, that was both fun and like traumatic to write about.
- [26:00]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, I can imagine. But ultimately I thought it was so resonant and there's so much heart and humor and tenderness and social gossip, so can't recommend it enough.
- [26:13]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Social gossip.
- [26:14]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, there's really something for everyone and you may cry at the end, like me. Anyway, thank you so much for being here and for your picks. Do you want to share with listeners where people can find you? Order your books in case they haven't already read them. Follow you, get updates.
- [26:30]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Sure, yeah. My website is cynthia Sweeney.com and links to all books and ways to buy books are there. And then I'm on Instagram, Cynthia Dsweeney and I love engaging with readers.
- [26:44]
Becca Freeman
So, yeah, perfect.
- [26:46]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Bring me your questions, even your compliance. I can handle it.
- [26:50]
Becca Freeman
I can't. Don't bring me any compliments.
- [26:52]
Olivia Mentor
Thank you so much. Yeah, bring me. Bring me only compliments, please.
- [26:58]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Well, by handle it, I mean I'll block it.
- [26:59]
Olivia Mentor
Okay, but that's. I like that movie. Like, you can bring them, but you can't stay.
- [27:05]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yes, exactly.
- [27:12]
Olivia Mentor
We are so excited to have author and educator Corey Ann Haydu with us today. She has been publishing critically acclaimed books in the young adult and children's space since 2013, and since 2019, she has been on the faculty at Vermont College of Fine Arts in their Writing for Children and Young Adults MFA program. Corey grew up outside of Boston, Massachusetts, and has been living in New York City since 2001, when she came there to earn her BFA in theater from New York University's Tisch School of the Arts. Following a few years of acting and cocktail waitressing and nannying, real estate agenting, Pilates, instructing and telemarketing, I like that all of that is included, actually. It really shows the whole journey. After that, Corey earned her MFA in Writing for children at the New School. Corey's books have been Edgar Award nominees, Amazon Books of the Month, Rise honorees, Junior Library Guild Selections, Kirkus, Publishers Weekly, and SLJ Best Books of the Year, and more. Her debut novel, Mothers and Other Strangers, came out in March of this year and she currently lives in Brooklyn with her family. Welcome. Well, I, I don't. I know you through a few different ways, but one of them is that we have the same publisher and I was able to read an early copy of your debut adult novel, Mothers and Other Strangers. I've already talked about it here and I loved it. We'll get to more of that later. So, Corey, what is the first book you have brought for us today?
- [28:38]
Corey Ann Haydu
Yes, so I am super excited to have a space to talk about this one because I basically screamed when I saw that a new book from this author was coming. So the first book I want to talk about is Luna Phoenix Queen by Julie Orringer.
- [28:55]
Becca Freeman
I've never heard of this. So I'm excited for you to talk about.
- [28:58]
Corey Ann Haydu
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
- [29:01]
Becca Freeman
Reaction. And I've never heard of it.
- [29:02]
Corey Ann Haydu
So, like, I know this author because she wrote a story collection called how to Breathe Underwater that is from 2003. And I am not like the world's biggest short story reader. Like I, I like it here and there, but this collection and I read it when it first came out, so I read it you know, like over 20 years ago. And it has stayed with me in the most, like, intense way. It's a collection that really centers, like, girlhood and motherhood and daughterhood. And those are things that, you know, are really huge in my work too. And just the way she writes about, particularly in that story collection, like, Adolescent Girls, was just, like, life changing for me. I felt seen in her work. It's beautiful. It's just really special. And I'm a teacher, and so I get asked a lot for, like, recommendations for short story collections for my writing students. And this is always the number one that I recommend. It is for adults, but it centers like adolescents a lot. So it resonates with a lot of my students as well. But so anyway, this short story collection changed my life. She also wrote a novel called I believe the Invisible Bridge. And for whatever reason, like, that book didn't. I didn't read it. I was like, that, you know, that's gonna. That doesn't jive with my understanding of Julie Orringer. I'm not, like, ready for that book. This one, as soon as I read the blurb, I was like, oh, this is. This one is for me. This is going to capture so much of what I love about her work. It is a book, apparently, about married English professors which already, like, I'm all. And their names are Dava and Barr. And Dava embarks on an affair with a colleague, another woman. And the love affair inspires a new novel that she begins working on. But she confronts an early onset Alzheimer's diagnosis while she's writing this novel. And sort of during her decline, Barr, the husband, ends up finding this manuscript which she'd been hiding from him because it, you know, reveals things about the affair, I guess. And he finds the manuscript, learns about the affair, and starts to, like, rewrite the manuscript as his own. It spans for decades. It's about writing, which is like something I am always drawn to. Of course, it's also about infidelity, which my most recent novel was as well. I'm so obsessed with the ruptures of infidelity, the really unique paths that can take. And this one sounds like it just takes two of my favorite book topics, writing and marriage trouble, and just mashes them together in the most unique way. And written by an author who I just cannot recommend highly enough. So, yeah, this is top of my list, and it's out October 13th.
- [31:56]
Becca Freeman
And tell us the title one more time.
- [31:59]
Corey Ann Haydu
Luna Phoenix Queen by Julie Oringer.
- [32:02]
Becca Freeman
That's so interesting when you first said that title I felt positive that you were going to pitch us something that was, like, romantasy or fantasy.
- [32:11]
Corey Ann Haydu
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:12]
Becca Freeman
It sounds very in that vein. And so the description doesn't match the title for me in a good way.
- [32:18]
Corey Ann Haydu
Totally, totally. And I think the COVID is really interesting. It's like, it's black and white, and I can't even really describe it. People need to look it up, but it's black and white and has sort of like fur and a hand. And it is a really arresting and unusual cover as well.
- [32:35]
Olivia Mentor
Ooh.
- [32:36]
Becca Freeman
And what is the second book that you brought to share with us today?
- [32:40]
Corey Ann Haydu
So the second book.
- [32:41]
Olivia Mentor
Book.
- [32:42]
Corey Ann Haydu
And, you know, I had a list of, like, 10 books I wanted to talk about, but I eventually landed on really wanting to talk about another author who has made the leap from children's NYA into adults, because there really is, like, a group of us that have done that, particularly in the last few years. There's been a real. I don't want to call it a migration because a lot of us are also still working in children's. But one of the people that has done it, and this will be her second adult novel is Nina LaCour, who, if you haven't read her young adult literature, Nina's work is incredible. She's the author of We Are okay, which was a Prince award winner in 2017. She also wrote Watch Over Me in 2020, which was incredible. She has a ton of books like me. She sort of writes across age categories. And her new adult book is called Meet Me in the Garden. And this one is historical fiction, which is not usually the place that I'm super, super drawn to, but this story sounds so up my alley. It's historical fiction set in 1944 New Orleans, and it's the story of two Creole cousins, Odette and Delphine, and they're both in love with people they're not supposed to be in love with. So I guess in Odette's case, she's in love with a woman. And in Delphine's case, she's in love with a white man. The story jumps ahead five years later, after they've sort of shared these secrets with each other. Their lives, like, spin apart, fall apart. And when they re meet, Delphine is passing as white, and Odette's life has, like, totally fallen apart. And according to the copy, she has to make a shattering choice to keep her family together. I'm reading a little further in. I guess this is inspired by Nina's family history somewhat, and the description says, I just have to Read this because I was like, oh, this is every book I want to read. It says it is a story of love and longing, art and motherhood, friendship and desire. Anina's work is really special. She has a lot of restraint in her prose. It's really beautiful, but also, like, really, really readable and easy to sink into because of that really impressive restraint. And I just trust she is a storyteller who I just trust. I know she's going to bring me something resonant and beautiful and somehow both really, really simple and really, really complicated. So I think this one's going to be extremely special. It also has a really beautiful cover that I recommend checking out. It's a very, like a jump off the shelf sort of COVID for me, at least.
- [35:20]
Becca Freeman
Oh, and did you mention when does this one come out?
- [35:23]
Corey Ann Haydu
Yes, this one is out sooner. This one out is out August 4th. So coming up really soon. And yeah, I'm just. I'm excited. It's really fun to watch people from the children' make the leap into adult and see the way their work continues to reflect some of the themes in their children's and young adult work. And also gets to stretch and explore new themes and new ideas, too. So I can't wait to read this one.
- [35:51]
Olivia Mentor
Well, like I said, Corey, I loved your adult book that came out recently, and I have talked to the listeners about it already. But can you give the pitch for the novel? I love hearing it from the author's mouth.
- [36:07]
Corey Ann Haydu
Yes, of course. And thank you so much. So my debut adult novel came out in March, and it's called Mothers and Other Strangers. And this is a. It's a dual timeline book about two moms, Joni and Bethann. And they meet at a playground when their young daughters are playing together, Sidney and May. And. And they're sort of unlikely best friends. They're not. They don't have a lot in common, but because of their daughters, their families get, like, really, really entwined. And in the second timeline, we're with Sidney and Mae, who are all grown up and pregnant with their first children. And something has happened that has brought the families apart. And we're sort of unpacking what happened in between that, like, idyllic and sort of awkward childhood friendship. And then when they're all grown up, and it also includes a little bit of MLM stuff and a little bit of the art world and what I'm going to call a bad theater boyfriend. Yeah, that's not a trope I've read
- [37:14]
Becca Freeman
before
- [37:16]
Corey Ann Haydu
based on experience. Yeah. So It's a friendship novel, I think first and second foremost it is like about motherhood and daughterhood as well. But it really for me is really centered in like a long term childhood friendship and just how you navigate that over the years and all the sort of ups and downs and in this case like secrets and fallouts that, that happen in the course of a friendship.
- [37:45]
Olivia Mentor
It's a beautifully written but also very juicy story, which I appreciate. It's like such a nice balance, I think, for a summer read. I also wanted to give you a second to plug your podcast for any of our listeners that may also love writing podcasts like me. I love the podcast you've been putting out. So if you want to share that and anywhere else that people can find you, that would be great.
- [38:07]
Corey Ann Haydu
I recently started a podcast with children's and young adult author Sarah Zar, who for a long time had her own podcast called this Creative Life, which is excellent. And Sarah wanted to pivot and do something with, with a co host. So the two of us have been working on a podcast called Still Writing and it's sort of about being. We're both, we both consider ourselves sort of mid career authors. She started publishing a few years before me. And it's really just about that like question you get when you go out into the world and people that you like know at the party kind of know you write and they're like, hey, are you, you still writing? Like what's, what's going on? So it's a check in on our writing processes and sort of what's going on in the book world. And it's been a lot of fun.
- [38:56]
Becca Freeman
Incredible. And are you on Instagram or is there anywhere else that people can keep up with you?
- [39:01]
Corey Ann Haydu
I am on Instagram, Corianne Haydu and I'm also on substack, also Coriane Haydu. I have a substack called Books and Bangs and I, you know, put something out usually around one once a month.
- [39:15]
John Glynn
Ish.
- [39:16]
Corey Ann Haydu
It's generally essays on sort of the intersection between like parenthood and a creative life and a lot of other, a lot of other things too. But yeah, you can find me and information about all my books. I write for ages. I write picture book through adult. So there's something for everyone and you can, you should be able to get all the information there.
- [39:43]
Becca Freeman
We are so excited to have John Glynn with us who is the editorial director of Hanover Square Press, an imprint of HarperCollins. His nonfiction debut out Memoir of a Montauk Summer was an indie Next pick and Oprah the Magazine Best LGBTQ Book of 2019 and a Cosmopolitan Best Book of 2019, among other accolades. Earlier this year, he released his debut novel, the Lost Book of Lancelot. He lives in New York City with his partner and his dog, Whippin. And John and I also went to Colle, where he was widely recognized as the premier creator of themed Power Hour playlists,
- [40:23]
John Glynn
particularly the Disney Power Hour, if I remember correctly.
- [40:27]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, iconic. Unfortunately, you have not brought us a DJ set, but you have brought us two books that you're looking forward to. Tell us the first book that you brought to share.
- [40:40]
John Glynn
I have. Well, I. I'd be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to your book first. I was lucky enough to read back where we started. I loved it so much, Becca. I mean, your writing is just so smart, but also effortless. I love the second chance romance trope. It's just a great book and I think your listeners and readers are gonna love it. But I do have two. I have two great books to recommend today too. Outside of your book.
- [41:07]
Becca Freeman
Tell us. Tell us the first one.
- [41:09]
John Glynn
So the first book, it's called the Open Era by Edward Schmidt. And it's basically a heated rivalry, but for tennis. And you know, I'm a hu. Right, like, it's just like, go buy it. I love tennis. So I was already like, inclined to love this pitch. But even if you're not a tennis fan, there's so much to love about this novel. It's written with so much warmth and depth and immediacy, and it's really easy to just sort of step into this world with these characters. It follows a 20 year old professional tennis player. He's making his Grand Slam debut at the US Open, but he's also the first openly gay male tennis player on the circuit. So what's interesting is that it isn't a coming out story really for our main character. It's more of a character coming into his own, fighting through his anxiety, sort of stepping into his power, which felt really, really relatable. And, you know, he's set to face the number two tennis player in the world, Diego Cruz, who I kind of pictured as like a Raphael Nadal type character.
- [42:20]
Becca Freeman
Oh yeah.
- [42:20]
John Glynn
And they, they sort of develop this friendship over a game of Mario Kart, which I loved. And the story kind of takes off from there. It's great. So I think your listeners will really love it and I think you too will really love it.
- [42:34]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so I know the joke on the Internet is that the Hockey in heated rivalry is fade to black, but the sex isn't. So where is this on the level? Like, the balance of sports versus romance?
- [42:47]
John Glynn
I would say there's more, like, scenes set off the court. It definitely isn't too sports heavy. It's also not overly spicy either. I would say maybe it's like a one and a half to two on the chili pepper scale, but it's really sort of about the emotional journey that this character's on as much as it is about the romance. But both elements play really well.
- [43:11]
Becca Freeman
Okay. I'm excited about this, and I have been seeing this all over the place, and it's on my list. I feel like I'm having so much of a sports summer because of the World cup that I'm, like, really swept up in sports stories. And I'm like, yeah, that might not have been my usual romance neighborhood, but I'm. I'm ready and willing to go there this summer.
- [43:32]
John Glynn
You're gonna be into it. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, just think of all the, like, puns that you can make with it, too, you know? Like, it's really gonna, like, serve up an ace for you, I think.
- [43:42]
Olivia Mentor
Oh, perfect. Well, what is the.
- [43:48]
John Glynn
I'll take that from the final, please.
- [43:50]
Olivia Mentor
No, I love. I think it should stay.
- [43:52]
Becca Freeman
I think it should stay again.
- [43:53]
Olivia Mentor
I think it has to stay. What is the second book you brought for us?
- [44:01]
John Glynn
Oh, man. Okay. So the second book isn't out until November, but I'm really excited to read it. It's the new book by Mary Beth Keene. You guys know Mary Beth Keene, right?
- [44:13]
Becca Freeman
Did she write the book of Two Ways, or am I thinking of somebody else?
- [44:16]
John Glynn
That must be someone else. She wrote this novel, Ask Again. Yes. That came out in 2019, which was this huge Jodi Picoult. Oh, yeah. No.
- [44:27]
Becca Freeman
What am I thinking of?
- [44:28]
John Glynn
I don't know what you're thinking of, Becca. I don't know.
- [44:31]
Becca Freeman
It's Monday. Monday, brain.
- [44:33]
Olivia Mentor
I can see the COVID of Ask Again. Yes. In my head, though. But I didn't read it. But I can see it. It was everywhere.
- [44:41]
John Glynn
It was everywhere. Yeah. It was an awesome book. It sort of followed these neighboring families that lived in the New York suburbs. But this new novel is called Whale harbor, and it's even more sweeping and epic in scope. And Mary Beth Keane, a lot of this story is inspired by her own family's story, and it follows this massive Irish family and the fate of 11 brothers after one of them goes missing.
- [45:12]
Becca Freeman
Oh, my God. Yeah. That is a lot of characters.
- [45:15]
John Glynn
It's a lot of. I can't wait to see how she pulls this off. And if. If anyone can, it's Mary Beth Keane. She writes in that sort of style of like. Like an Ann Patchett or an Anita Shreve, where it's, like, very unadorned, but still lyrical and. And somehow very vivid and like you're. You're sort of pinned to the page by the writing.
- [45:39]
Sunjana Bhasker
But I just.
- [45:40]
John Glynn
I don't know. I love anything set in Ireland. I love a novel that spans the decades. And this also moves from Ireland to a cattle ranch in Montana, which also feels like a really evocative setting. So the early buzz around this book is that it's Mary Beth Keane's best book to date. So that comes out November 3rd. I'm very, very excited for that one.
- [46:02]
Olivia Mentor
Okay, me too. That has a lot of elements that speak to me personally, actually. Just the title. I was like, sold. So it feels like.
- [46:10]
John Glynn
It feels like an Olivia book for
- [46:11]
Becca Freeman
sure, even based on the title. I agree.
- [46:14]
Olivia Mentor
You get me.
- [46:17]
Becca Freeman
I agree. But you know what I'm also excited to talk about is your book that just came out in May, which I've been raving about on the podcast. But I always feel like it's more powerful to hear the pitch directly from the author. And this book is, again, not my usual neighborhood book wise, but I loved it. So can you also tell us about the Lost Book of Lancelot?
- [46:37]
John Glynn
Yeah, so it's out now. My elevator pitch for it is like a Song of Achilles for Arthurian legend or the Sword in the Stone meets Call Me by youy Name. It's basically a retelling of Lancelot's story. I could see you smiling at that elevator pitch, Becca.
- [46:56]
Becca Freeman
Yes. I loved the second one.
- [47:00]
John Glynn
Yeah. It's a retelling of Lancelot's story from Arthurian legend, but it's drawing on an actual queer thread from the source material to kind of give it a new framing. So you follow Lancelot from his childhood on this mysterious, curious island, through his nightly training and his first love, and then eventually his arrival at Camelot and his quest for the Holy Grail. My goal was, you know, just to write something that was fun and transporting, that can, you know, kind of take you out of this world for a while. So if you're looking for a little escape hatch this summer, it might fit the bill for you.
- [47:35]
Becca Freeman
I feel like an escape hatch is the perfect way to describe it. I loved that this book was a very light romantasy, but it's not too unfamiliar. There's not so much world building that it's, you know, 600 pages and there's like a light magic, but not too much magic. And what it really felt like to me was this type of. I don't even know what to call it, like, this type of adventure novel that I used to read when I was in elementary school and I used to love and then have kind of lost touch with as an adult. And so it's like that kind of, like, questing format. But there is a love story. There is this magical story. I just. I did. I found it so. So transl. Transportive.
- [48:12]
John Glynn
Oh, I'm happy to hear that. That was totally my goal. I didn't want to, like, overwhelm the reader with, you know, too much, like, lineage and backstory. I really wanted to kind of put the relationships front and center and the adventure so that. I'm glad to hear that worked for you.
- [48:29]
Becca Freeman
It totally did. Well, tell the listeners where they can find more of you if they would like to keep up with you. Post Lancelot, Mid Lancelot and more of your recommendations.
- [48:45]
John Glynn
Yeah, I'm on Instagram glennner85 and sometimes on TikTok on GlennBooks, but I'm more on Instagram than TikTok.
- [49:02]
Becca Freeman
For our next guest, we're so excited to have Sunjana Bhasker, who is a grad student and bookish content creator living and working in New York City. In her research and content creation, she applies a critical feminist lens to issues of health, sexuality, gender, and intimacy. And she's also the co host of the newly launched Radio 831 podcast, the flagship podcast of the 831 Stories romance publishing imprint, along with her co host and fellow romance enthusiast, Tyler McCall. Welcome, Sanj, welcome.
- [49:32]
John Glynn
Thank you.
- [49:33]
Sunjana Bhasker
I'm so happy to be here.
- [49:35]
Becca Freeman
Well, I'm so excited for you to be here because I feel like I've been listening to your new podcast and I frequently am finding myself talking back to thin air. So it's lovely to be able to talk to you.
- [49:47]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun. Podcasting is new for me. I am nowhere near as like. But you guys are the real pros. So, you know, I'm partially here to be myself and partially here to learn, but I'm having a good time.
- [49:59]
Becca Freeman
Well, we're here to learn from you. Tell us what you brought to share with us book wise.
- [50:03]
Corey Ann Haydu
Yes.
- [50:04]
Sunjana Bhasker
Okay. So this was actually a really challenging question for me, generally speaking, where I'm like, I want to talk about every romance I've ever loved. Obviously. But I've boiled it down to two books and the first book is a little bit of a dark horse. It's called the Luckiest lady in London by the author, Sherry Thomas. And the reason I say it's a dark horse is because technically speaking, this book was released in 2013, which does not meet the criteria for this. However, it was released as like a mass market paperback historical in 2013 by the publisher, which is not a format that exists anymore. Basically, it has gone out of print and it's one of the most iconic historical romances. Like, I've never met a person who read a Sherry Thomas and was like, that was boring or dull or uninteresting. Like, Sherry Thomas is the gift that keeps on giving as an authority. But we are incredibly lucky. Berkeley, the publisher, picked up Luckiest lady in London, has given it a brand new cover, has given it an opening essay by Ali Hazelwood, and is re releasing it. So it will now be available to, like, a huge swath of people who otherwise may never have stumbled across it. Like, it is being fully reissued in a way that I think is really special. And I had to talk about it because I'm like, historical romance is the underrated queen of romance for me. Like, people who read historical just understand romance as a genre better. So I was like, I have to bring that. I have to have either of you read Sheri.
- [51:37]
Becca Freeman
No, I'm not a historical romance reader. I'm a contemporary romance reader. And I don't know, maybe I need to give it a try because I can't say that I've, like, given it a good shot.
- [51:48]
Sunjana Bhasker
That's so fair. And I think a lot of times people are like, you have to start with Bridgerton. You don't have to start with Bridgerton. There are so many places where you can start.
- [51:55]
Olivia Mentor
I have read some historical romance, actually, and I really enjoy it.
- [51:59]
Sunjana Bhasker
Okay. I think you'll really like this.
- [52:00]
Olivia Mentor
It's overwhelming also. So, yeah, is this a good place to start if someone is new to it?
- [52:06]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yes, absolutely. And I think that's partially also why I picked it. Like, it's so tightly written, it's witty, it's funny, it's light on its feet. Like, I think a lot of times people are intimidated by the idea of having to enter this whole historical world and all this detail about society. And you do get some of that right. The plot itself follows this all star rake in London society named Felix, who
- [52:30]
Becca Freeman
is all star rake.
- [52:32]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah.
- [52:34]
Becca Freeman
What a qualification.
- [52:36]
Sunjana Bhasker
Oh, yes. He's the guy everybody wants to Be he just is poised. He's the ideal gentleman is his nickname. And Felix charms everybody except for Louisa, who has to be in London society because she needs to make a good match. Because she needs to financially provide for her sisters who are about to be thrown into debt because they aren't financially provided for. Very, you know, Jane Austen premise. Louisa strategic. She goes in freshly with like a glow up. She's wearing makeup, she's wearing what she calls bust improvers, which is like a push up bra for old timey people. But like she's wearing a push up bra and she's in there to put on the performance of a lifetime as like a designer, even though she's coming into the marriage market without a dowry. And she immediately sees Felix and is like he's really attractive. He's also wicked and manipulative and I can see right through him and I want nothing to do with him. Felix sees that Louisa is the one person in the London market who seems both charmed by him and also is avoiding him at all costs. And immediately it just spins into like this cat and mouse chase, both like in the ballroom. And then actually very quickly in the novel they end up getting married in like a sort of marriage of convenience situation. And it like continues like they. I think that's the thing I love about it is that they continue to play well after they get married. Like that's not the ending point for their like joy and happily ever after, if you will. But I think it's very approachable.
- [54:02]
Becca Freeman
Okay, and now is this part of a broader series or is this a standalone?
- [54:07]
Sunjana Bhasker
So she actually has another book that is paired with it called Private Arrangements and actually there's a third one as well, which I don't think I've read. But Private Arrangements is her first novel ever and technically it takes place chronologically, I think after the Luckiest lady in London. So it was written first but published second. You could start either way, but I think Private Arrangements, it's hard to get your hands on because it hasn't been re released yet. I think Luckiest lady in London is, is, is perfect to start with.
- [54:35]
Becca Freeman
So we're reading a standalone, even if maybe it wasn't intended that way.
- [54:39]
Sunjana Bhasker
Well, the second book is a standalone in that it's a different couple, but you'll see Felix and Lisa in the background, loosely connected.
- [54:47]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, I see.
- [54:48]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah.
- [54:50]
Olivia Mentor
Well that sounds great. Did you mention what day that comes out?
- [54:53]
Sunjana Bhasker
Or is it July 21, 2026? So soon reach quite soon.
- [55:01]
Becca Freeman
A historic summer.
- [55:03]
Sunjana Bhasker
Historic summer. I mean look, we're in the age of the Gilded Age and Bridgerton and I don't know if you've been watching the other Bennett sister on Britbox.
- [55:12]
Olivia Mentor
No, but I've heard raves have it downloaded.
- [55:15]
Sunjana Bhasker
So good.
- [55:15]
Olivia Mentor
It's so good.
- [55:17]
Sunjana Bhasker
I just. I think there's magic to be found in historical romance. It's not far away.
- [55:22]
Olivia Mentor
Also, the New Sense and Sensibility trailer is out. I don't know if either of you seen that, but it is really giving the Keira Knightley Pride and Prejudice in a huge way. And I am personally thrilled.
- [55:35]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah. Daisy Edgar Jones is so beautiful. Like, she's so sweet. Oh my gosh.
- [55:39]
Olivia Mentor
Stunning.
- [55:39]
Sunjana Bhasker
I could stare at her.
- [55:40]
Olivia Mentor
Gorgeous.
- [55:41]
Sunjana Bhasker
Gorgeous. Yeah.
- [55:42]
Olivia Mentor
Well, what is the second book you've brought for us?
- [55:45]
Sunjana Bhasker
The other one is a contemporary, so I think this might be more up your. More up your alley, Becca, but can't wait. It's called Just a Highland Fling by Naina Kumar. It is a very sweet contemporary romance about this woman named Nilou who is a producer on like a Love island esque show. And she shows up in Scotland for her estranged father's wedding. The first night that she's in Scotland, she has a one night stand. Not a spoiler. It's like the first chapter with this man whose name she doesn't get. And then she shows up at her father's wedding after this like incredible night out. And there is the guy that she had a one night stand with standing at the front of the church with a bagpipe in hand. Or like standing at the dinner with a bagpipe in hand. And I was so charmed by this. Well, I mean, immediately after she sees him, he pieces together that she is the daughter of the groom, her father. And he becomes immediately antagonistic. Like this man who had treated her so well. Like it goes from lovers to kind of enemies to lovers again. Which is like a fabulous setup in my opinion. And Nilou and Jacob are both like. Or Nilou is like, why are you mad at me? We had a great night and Jacob is mad at her for undisclosed reasons. We don't get his POV until later. It's such like a romp of a book. There's like a runaway Bride situation, there's a road trip. I kind of can't get into all of that without spoiling it for you. But it's truly a okay, one night stand wedding almost happens, shenanigans ensue kind of book. So it's just like, it's very fun, it's very playful, it's Very fun. And I also think on maybe a more personal level, I'm really thrilled by stories about members of the Indian diaspora in romance, which is pretty small percentage of all romances that are actually, actually published. And like, it makes me happy to see that they're telling stories or like we're getting stories about people who have the same cultural references that I grew up with. And so there's something very, like, personal about that. And I also think that it's a lovely exploration of the, like, diaspora of Indian immigrants that isn't just Americans. Like, Jacob grew up in Scotland. He plays the bagpipes. He, like, is very much a Scottish man and he is also South Asian. So, like, there's something about that that I think is also very, like, lovely and like, truly novel within the landscape of romance also out July 21, 2026.
- [58:13]
Becca Freeman
I'm not gonna say that if you had recommended this to me two weeks ago, it would have fallen on deaf ears because I do like shenanigans in a romance. I like a vacation romance. However, I have become so invested in World cup content. Not the World cup, mind you, haven't watched a single second of gameplay.
- [58:31]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Yeah.
- [58:31]
Becca Freeman
However, I'm really invested in the social media content around it and I am finding the Tartan Army's takeover of Boston to be so hilarious. So, like, my appetite for Scottish shenanigans is at an all time high.
- [58:46]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah, correct. I also. We actually just did a bit on the podcast talking about like the unbelievable romance of the World cup where, like the very idea that we're sitting in this, like, pot of like, games and play and like, being a fan is such a romantic thing. Like, to be a sports fan, to be a fan of anything is such a, like, romantic endeavor. It is like reaching for this thing that you can't necessarily have, but, like, the experience of loving it is in and of itself, like, so romantic. And so like, sports watching is romantic. But World cup is also romantic for all of the cross cultural pieces of it. Have you seen all that footage of like, men in kilts, like, lifting women in bar, consensually lifting women in bars and like slinging them over their shoulder, like, truly like an old.
- [59:35]
Olivia Mentor
No, it's. This is the first time. Is this World cup content? Because this is the first time World cup content has appealed to me. I may be looking this up. This is interesting.
- [59:44]
Becca Freeman
I have to make another plea for my favorite flavor of World cup content, which is young, usually men gifting their older fathers tickets to a game of their country of origin and Old men becoming extremely emotional and not knowing where to put it and, like, usually crying or covering their faces, like not believing it. It's the sweetest thing.
- [60:06]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yeah, that's really lovely.
- [60:09]
Olivia Mentor
I was at Moynihan this morning and there's a game tonight, I think in New Jersey and there's a bunch of people there going to the game. And there was just an energy to. Everyone seemed so genuinely happy and like, most people are not happy in Moyna Hand Train at all.
- [60:27]
Sunjana Bhasker
Correct.
- [60:28]
Olivia Mentor
There's like nowhere to put your stuff. The bathroom line is so long. Like you're just trying to get a charger desperately somewhere in outlet. But everyone seemed genuinely so happy and like everyone was kind of like cheering for each other when they, like, would pass. It was like. It was really, really cute.
- [60:45]
Sunjana Bhasker
Everyone is so delighted all of a sudden to be buying a $12 coffee. And that. That's really sweet.
- [60:50]
Olivia Mentor
That's really sweet to me.
- [60:52]
Sunjana Bhasker
I mean, there are tweets of people being like, I'll take off this jersey right now and learn Spanish if you kiss me. Like, people are insane. Things are happening at these games and also in the fanfare around it, which is. There are many reasons to be.
- [61:07]
Becca Freeman
I'm very excited for your romance recommendation, but I'm also preemptively excited for the hopeful, like, new glut of World cup inspired romances that we're gonna get in, you know, one to two years.
- [61:21]
Sunjana Bhasker
Yes, agreed.
- [61:22]
Olivia Mentor
Completely agreed.
- [61:23]
Becca Freeman
I'm really looking forward to the Mexican Korean crossover cross cultural romance.
- [61:29]
Olivia Mentor
Yep, sounds great.
- [61:30]
Sunjana Bhasker
Exactly.
- [61:32]
Cynthia D. Sweeney
Love.
- [61:32]
Sunjana Bhasker
I'm from. I'm from Georgia and I was very tickled by that guy who found Waffle House in Georgia. The German name. Waffle House in Georgia. And I was like, you're in for such a ride.
- [61:44]
Olivia Mentor
It's like Waffle House really is something bigger than itself. You know, it's really.
- [61:51]
Becca Freeman
It's a weather reporting system.
- [61:54]
Sunjana Bhasker
Correct? Yeah. It's also sometimes like dinner theater if you go at the right time.
- [62:00]
Olivia Mentor
Yes.
- [62:02]
Sunjana Bhasker
It's a community space.
- [62:05]
Becca Freeman
We love this. Thank you so much for coming and giving us these great recommendations. Can you tell the people a little bit about your podcast and where they can find you if they want more of you on the Internet? Because I will say we met at a party maybe like six months ago. What's time? I don't. I don't know if that's accurate at all.
- [62:22]
Sunjana Bhasker
I actually don't either.
- [62:24]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, who knows? But since then I've been following you and I feel like you have some of the best critical takes on the romance genre that I've seen and I've been enjoying it so much. So I want our listeners to get that too.
- [62:36]
Sunjana Bhasker
Thank you. That's really kind of. Yeah. Radio 831 podcast, which is part of the I Heart Podcasts network and run BY of course, 831 stories. We talk about romance culture, which is to say like things that we find to be romantic, both romance novels and also TV and film and all of that. It's weekly releases on Thursdays. Anywhere you can get your podcasts. You can also find me on just about every social media platform at Baskinson, which is like Baskin Robbins plus Sons. It actually, there's, there's actually no, there's no relation to Baskin Robbins. But like that's the best way to describe it.
- [63:14]
Becca Freeman
This is not trademark infringement Baskin Robbins.
- [63:16]
Sunjana Bhasker
This is not like all rights reserve Baskin Robbins for sure. And then also on Substack at Scratch Paper, which is where like the like longer form critical academic theory stuff pops up for me.
- [63:28]
Becca Freeman
Amazing. Thank you so much. Let's take another ad break.
- [63:37]
Olivia Mentor
This episode is sponsored by Sol de Janeiro, the Brazilian inspired self care brand we're partnering with for our Summer of Soul. And as a reminder from our June 17 episode where we announced our Summer of Soul partnership, Sol de Janeiro and Bad and Paper are partnering to bring you bonus book club episodes in person events. More on that in a minute giveaways and exclusive Sol de Janeiro discounts for our listeners. And we know this is a lot of information, so, so just know right off the bat you can always go to batonpaper podcast.com summerofsoul anytime for all of the information for event dates, locations, tickets, giveaway signups and discount code info. But let's take a second to go through some very exciting and important event information right now.
- [64:23]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so our July event is going to be in Chicago. We're still figuring out the other two. But we have big news for our Chicago listeners. So our Chicago event is going to take take place at Three Avenues Bookshop in the Lakeview neighborhood on Wednesday, July 22. Doors will open at 6 and we'll get started at about 6:30. And as you know, our July bonus book club pick is the five star weekend by Ellen Hildebrand, which we'll be discussing on the podcast on July 16th. And this is also the topic for our live Chicago Book club event too. And it's great timing because the TV adaptation is premiering on Peacock on July 9th 9th. So that will give us a little time to watch the first episode and chat about the series too. The event is free, but space is limited, so be sure to get your ticket right away, as we do anticipate that the spots will go quickly. Tickets are live now and can be accessed via the link@badonpaper podcast.com summerofsoul and we'll post on Instagram and Facebook too.
- [65:27]
Olivia Mentor
We can't wait to see you on Wednesday, July 22 in Chicago. And if you aren't located in Chicago, we will be announcing our first giveaway on Instagram and our website on the day of that event. So there will be goodies for everyone. Be sure to visit bodcast.com summerofso for all the details about our Summer of Soul partnership. Well, Becca, do you want to kick us off with your books that you're excited about?
- [65:58]
Becca Freeman
I would love to. So my first pick comes out yesterday when this airs, and it's Habits of the Sea by Shea Earnshaw. And this is a book that Olivia talked about at the beginning of the year, late last year, and I was so intrigued by the premise and I finally read it a couple of months ago and I just had the most immersed, swept away reading experience that I've had in such a long time. So this book is about a woman who had a mysterious experience as a child where she sailed to a island off the coast of Canada and she met a man on this island. And in her experience, she was only there for a few hours, but when she returns home, there's a whole manhunt going on for her and she's been gone for a week and nobody believes her. And it's kind of this like traumatic experience that has haunted her into her adulthood. And as an adult, there's all these kind of online rumors about this island. And she goes and tracks down the island and goes back there to like prove her sanity. And it's just as she remembered it, down to the man who she met that night when she was a child has not aged. And this is kind of like a sweeping literary love story that it felt a lot to me like the Time Traveler's Wife. Like there's like a doomed element to it that's slightly speculative. I thought it was so gorgeous and I the whole time I was reading it, I felt absolutely certain that I knew how it ended, which I didn't mind. I was like, I know what's gonna happen, but I'm enjoying this ride so much that it doesn't even matter. And then the book zagged when I thought it was going to zig and it surprised me so much, and that made me like it even more. I loved this book. Like, if you like books like the Ministry of Time by Callie Ann Bradley or the Time Traveler's Wife, I think you will love this.
- [68:04]
Olivia Mentor
What's your next pick?
- [68:05]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so my next pick is called Sophie Standing There by Meg Mason, which comes out on September 8th. And Meg Mason is the author of Sorrow and Bliss. So it's been a second since her debut. And I feel like Olivia is more the one who reads a book and is like, I just got so swept up in the sentences and the writing. Like, I'm more there for the plot. And reading Sorrow and Bliss is one of the few experiences where I was, like, rapturous over the sentences and how it was writing, and it could have had no plot, and I would have read every sentence of it. And so I'm so excited to see what her second book is. And it sounds. It sounds great. It sounds a little mysterious, actually. So it's about this woman named Sophie who has this perfect life. She has perfect husband. She has this great job working for a local literary festival in England, and her whole perfect life comes crashing down, and she's kind of isolating herself. And during that period, she goes back and she starts rereading all of the books from her favorite author when she was in her 20s. And I think it sounds like she engineers a way to meet this author who she feels like she has this, like, powerful connection with that might even be romantic. And I think. I'm not sure what happens, but it sounds really interesting about the parasocial relationship between readers and writers. And, you know, that feeling of loving a book so much that you're positive you would love the person who created it, even if you don't know a thing about them. I'm really excited to find out what this is.
- [69:47]
Olivia Mentor
This is one of the many books on my Kindle, the advanced copies on my Kindle that I have started and then gotten distracted from. But hearing you talk about it makes me want to go back right away.
- [69:58]
Becca Freeman
Yeah, I'm even more intrigued by it because I was at this author talk with Ann Patchett a few weeks ago, and she said something about how everyone was telling her that her most recent book, Whistler, is her most personal book yet. And she was like, you don't know me at all. Like, how do you know that this is personal and just, like, what we project on authors we love? And so, I don't know. I think the topic matter is really interesting here and not something I'VE ever read about, I don't think same. Well, what about you? What have you brought to show and tell?
- [70:34]
Olivia Mentor
Well, the first book I brought, I just finished, just came out a couple weeks ago, I think. Cannot stop talking about it. And that is John of John by Douglas Stewart.
- [70:43]
Becca Freeman
You know who else can't stop talking about this? Ann Patchett. At that event I went to, she must have recommended it like two or three times. She was rapturous about it.
- [70:52]
Olivia Mentor
Her blurb is on the COVID And. And it's not that Ann Patchett blurbed it that drew me towards it, but it was the words in the blurb. And it specifically spoke to how immersive the book is and all encompassing and just like you disappear inside this world. And it just sounded like something I would love. It got an Oprah's Book Club pick, but anyway, it's also set in a remote Scottish island. Oh, Olivia, naturally.
- [71:19]
Becca Freeman
Olivia Porn. Olivia Bate.
- [71:20]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah, yeah, I know. I was like, okay, yes, this is for me. But I had never read this author before. He has two other, I would say pretty well known novels. And I don't read a lot of male authors either. So I was like, I don't know, I'll give it a try. And it is phenomenal. It is set in the 90s and it centers around this young man in his early mid-20s named Cal. His full name is technically John. His father's name is John also, hence John of John. He goes back because his grandmother is ailing and he's forced to reconnect with his father. They have this very, very complicated relationship for many reasons, a lot of which I won't get into because I would say by chapter two or three, you realize the main sort of plot slash tension of the book. And I don't want to give it away because I think it's pretty surprising. But one of the main points of contention between him and his father is his father is very religious. And I guess there is this community of sort of almost evangelical Protestant people living on these very remote islands of Scotland. But it is the most sweeping, beautiful book I maybe have ever read. Like, it is one of my favorite books of all time. I was so immersed in every aspect of these characters and the story. It is, I would say, emotional and really hard to read in parts. It's not as sad as I've heard some of his other books are necessarily, but it's just phenomenal. Like, I can't say enough things about how beautiful the book is. There are various trigger warnings which I suggest Looking up enough, but I can't get over that this came out of someone's head. Like it's astounding. Can't recommend it enough.
- [73:14]
Becca Freeman
What an endorsement.
- [73:16]
Olivia Mentor
Yes, it's. Oh, I. Yeah, it just. So many thoughts. I could go on. I have. Anyway, my second pick, I have not read yet, but I'm excited to. And that is the Seekers of Deer Creek by Tao Tai, which is out on August 4th. And this is from the bestselling author of Banyan Moon, which was a read with Jenna Pick maybe two or three years ago. And this is pitched this new book as a captivating, evocative story of two estranged sisters on a quest to find a painting by a forgotten Vietnamese artist that holds the truth of their family's fractured past. So I love Tao Tai's writing so much. And this sounds like another really wonderful literary mystery with. I love the idea of a secret, like in a painting somehow. And I just, I can't wait to read it. And finally, I want to give a shout out for your book, which comes out October 13th, back where we started. I've heard there's a physical arc on its way to me right now, so I can't wait to crack that open and say more wonderful things about it. But in the meantime, just a reminder to everyone how important pre ordering is and for any of the books you've heard about here, but especially Becca's.
- [74:36]
Becca Freeman
Oh, thank you.
- [74:37]
Olivia Mentor
Go hit that pre order button.
- [74:39]
Becca Freeman
Thank you. Well, shall we get out of book recommendations and into some n matter?
- [74:44]
Olivia Mentor
Let's do it. What is your obsession?
- [74:51]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so my obsession is something that I was gifted, which is quite a sweet perk because it's pretty expensive. But I am so obsessed with it and I have no obligation to tell you about this.
- [75:02]
Sunjana Bhasker
This.
- [75:03]
Becca Freeman
Okay, so probably like 2 months ago I got this cold coffee maker. It's basically like a Keurig machine, but for cold coffee specifically. And I never would have bought this myself because I had my years long coffee setup. I would like brew a full pot of coffee, put it in a carafe, and then put that in the fridge. And that worked fine for me. Like I would was happy with it. I had this like Amazon little gadget thing for if I made hot coffee the morning of, I could like chill it in that. And so I was like, I have this sorted. So this machine, it. It has little capsules, they're different, like not flavors, but like different varietals of coffee that you can put in it. And it can make cold brew nitro coffee or Chilled espresso. Olivia, this thing is life changing for me. It is so much better.
- [76:02]
Olivia Mentor
Does Grace have this?
- [76:03]
Becca Freeman
Yes, she has it.
- [76:05]
Olivia Mentor
That's where I've seen it.
- [76:05]
Becca Freeman
And we were gushing about how much we love it and I was saying that I use the cold brew function the most and she was saying that she uses the nitro one. And I was like, I don't really know what a nitro coffee is.
- [76:18]
Olivia Mentor
I don't either.
- [76:19]
Becca Freeman
It's like foamier and it almost makes it taste like there's milk and sugar in it. Like a hint of it without there being anything in it. Like, it's just creamier coffee. I still add creamer to it. Like it's not as if it's enough for me, but like it's just like a smoother coffee. So I've started doing that too. Oh my God, this thing is amazing. It takes like, I don't know, you press a button and it takes. I mean, the first time you set it up, it has to like chill the water. It takes a while, but once it's set up, it takes like, I don't know, like 30 seconds. And the coffee is so good.
- [76:55]
Olivia Mentor
How expensive are we talking?
- [76:56]
Becca Freeman
It's like 500.
- [76:58]
Olivia Mentor
I mean, okay, if you're a daily nugget ice maker.
- [77:02]
Becca Freeman
Yeah. It's like, if you're a daily out of the house coffee person, I think you would like amortize that pretty fast. But it is expensive. But as somebody who drinks cold coffee all year round, this is so good. And what it has changed the game for me is in the afternoon, I will sometimes want a coffee, but I don't want like a full coffee. And so I have like a light roast, I guess, so it's like a little less caffeinated. And I do that as espresso over ice. And that is like the perfect afternoon thing for me.
- [77:35]
Olivia Mentor
That sounds delightful. Sounds great.
- [77:37]
Becca Freeman
I know.
- [77:37]
Olivia Mentor
I feel it.
- [77:38]
Becca Freeman
Like, I'm like, I didn't pay for this, so I'm telling you to pay for it. But like, genuinely my adoration for this thing just grows and grows and grows and I never would have bought it myself.
- [77:48]
Olivia Mentor
Micah's literally, like staring at it lovingly as we record. She's like looking off camera at it.
- [77:54]
Becca Freeman
Grace and I were literally at lunch a few weeks ago and we were just like talking about how much we love it.
- [77:59]
Olivia Mentor
As someone who's really considering getting a nugget ice maker, even though we are getting a new fridge that makes ice cream, which is. It makes absolutely no sense financially. I get it. Sometimes it makes a difference.
- [78:12]
Becca Freeman
Yeah.
- [78:13]
Olivia Mentor
If you drink a lot of coffee or beverages. I mean, hey.
- [78:15]
Becca Freeman
I mean, just like, I feel like my coffee is the thing I look forward to when I wake up. I'm not a morning person. I'm like, okay, I get my coffee now. And so having really good coffee makes such a difference. But I also won't leave my house for it because I don't want to see humans until I've had coffee.
- [78:30]
Olivia Mentor
Well, I'm happy for you. You.
- [78:31]
Becca Freeman
Thank you. What is your obsession?
- [78:35]
Olivia Mentor
My obsession is the other Bennett sister, which is a show on. I think it's technically on BritBox, but I. I watched it on Prime.
- [78:44]
Becca Freeman
Okay.
- [78:44]
Olivia Mentor
It's based on a book, actually. It's a. It's sort of like a spin off of the Bennett sisters in Pride and Prejudice. So it's all about Mary Bennett. And this wasn't, like a perfect show for me, but I watched it on a really rainy week day where I was just really tired. At the end of the day, I wanted to unwind. Jake was golfing or something. I put it on. The episodes are 30 minutes. You can, like, fly through it. And what I really loved about this is that there is no trace of anything stressful in this show.
- [79:18]
Becca Freeman
Oh.
- [79:18]
Olivia Mentor
Like, there is not one whiff of anything that has to do with the real world. The real life. All of the drama is. Is pretty low stakes. Like, there's. It's. Even the. The sort of emotional stuff is, like, very sweet in a way. And it was just a really nice escape that. Because, like, I like Bravo as an escape, but it can be kind of dark, I think, and it can feel a little. Not a little. It can feel very vapid and appearance focused and stuff. So it was nice to have something that was really different. Very escapist, but not dark at all. Very light. So I get why people love this so much.
- [80:02]
Becca Freeman
I see the appeal in that. I hear you.
- [80:03]
Olivia Mentor
Yeah. It's great for a rainy day. I can't recommend that enough.
- [80:07]
Becca Freeman
Well, what about on the reading front? What have you read the past week?
- [80:10]
Olivia Mentor
So I read John of John, as We Know, Loved. And then I also finished Once There Were wolves by Charlotte McConaughey, which I have been reading for a while now. I checked it out from the library. I think it is late. Apologies to the Kinderhook Memorial Library. I will get it back to you soon. But this was the only book of Charlotte McConaughey's that I hadn't read. And I, of course, Wild Dark Shore is one of my favorites of all time. Migrations I loved probably not as much, but still loved. This one, however, surprisingly, did not work for me. Oh, I don't know. For whatever reason, something about it just didn't connect with me. And I know people really, really love this. And of course, on a sentence level, I found it great. Like, there were lots of elements of it that are just proof of how amazing and talented Charlotte McConaughey is. But for some reason, this one just didn't do it for me as much. This is about a woman.
- [81:06]
Sunjana Bhasker
Gosh.
- [81:07]
Olivia Mentor
Who is in charge of bringing wolves to this remote part of Scotland. Both books set in Scotland this week. Wow. Weird. And there haven't been wolves there for hundreds of years, so she has to reintroduce them. And there's a lot of sort of controversy about that because of all the livestock and how they could kill them. And there's a murder that takes place, so. But there's also a lot of themes of domestic abuse. There's a lot. And it's all very heavy.
- [81:35]
Becca Freeman
Okay.
- [81:35]
Olivia Mentor
But I would say that, like, I think if you love her books, you should try it. And I also think this was proof to me of, like. Like, just because you read an author's book and it maybe isn't for you, doesn't mean that their next one might not, like, be your absolute favorite. And I think that's kind of amazing. Anyway, so this wasn't my favorite of hers, but it's a lot of people's favorites. It has great reviews, so that's what I've got.
- [81:58]
Becca Freeman
Okay.
- [81:59]
Olivia Mentor
What did you read?
- [82:00]
Becca Freeman
Okay. I finished two books that I was working on. So the first one is Crash Into Me by Robin Lee, which came out yesterday. And so my biggest piece of advice for anyone reading this is to totally divorce it from the idea of you in your head. Like, almost think of it as a debut. Like, it's its own thing. It is so tonally different than the idea of you. And it's also a different genre. It is not a romance. If anything, I would call it, like, a midlife novel or, like a marriage story novel. And I ended up really liking it, but I feel like I've seen a lot of people being divided on it. So I think the biggest thing is, like, going with no expectations. So this book is about a woman who relocates from Paris to LA for her husband's job as a movie producer. She's in her mid-40s, she has two kids, and she falls in with this very 1% social sex that and right at the beginning of the book, it's called Crash into Me because she gets into this car accident with this woman who ends up kind of bringing her into this social set who she knows from her past. And when we interviewed Robin last week, I was only halfway through the book and I was saying that something about it reminded me of Loved One by Aisha Muharrar, which was billed as an emotional mystery.
- [83:27]
Sunjana Bhasker
And.
- [83:27]
Becca Freeman
And I feel like they have some DNA in common, even though the age of the characters is very different. So in this one, there's kind of like two past plot lines of what happened between her and the model in the past and then what happened between her and this ex boyfriend in the past. And I felt very pulled along. Like it was a slower read for me. Like this wasn't a sit down in one sitting book and finish it. But like, I kept feeling called to my Kindle being like, what? What's gonna happen? So, yeah, I really ended up enjoying this. But it's. It's much darker and moodier and heavier in both plot and theme, and it deals a lot with racial identity and feeling othered by that.
- [84:14]
Olivia Mentor
Anything else?
- [84:15]
Becca Freeman
Yes. Well, I told Cynthia Dupree Sweeney earlier in this episode that I was reading the Nest as research for my own book. And I finished that. And this book is such a. Such a feat. Like she was saying, I think while we were on the air, she was saying there's 11 points of view, which is crazy. And it came out in 2016. It's an older book, and it's about these four siblings who have this inheritance that is set to be distributed to them when they turn 40. And right as they're about to get it, the oldest sibling gets into this accident and the money is used to pay off the person he's in an accident with. And all of the siblings have kind of been counting on this money coming through and it like drives this huge wedge. And you know, all the siblings are fighting and have their various financial issues that they'd been waiting on this money for. And it's like very much a family dramedy. And the whole second half of this book is like, like bumper cars. It's like all of these. I'm gonna mix metaphors here, but it's like all of these dominoes that she set up are like tipping over and tipping over other things. They're all interconnecting. And it was so gratifying to read. Like, I could not have predicted how some of these plot lines all came together. Like some of the the POVs feel truly random and they all come together and I was like, wow. Wow, this was great.
- [85:44]
Olivia Mentor
I remember loving it. I remember loving it for a reason.
- [85:47]
Sunjana Bhasker
That's funny.
- [85:48]
Becca Freeman
So I had read Lake Effect earlier this year and I loved it. And so I bought this to be like, oh, this will be good research for me for my book because of the multi POV aspect of it. And then I went to add the description to my reading tracker and I pulled it up on Goodreads and I realized that I'd read it already. I read it in 2016. None of it felt familiar to me. I mean, I feel like I'm reading 60 to 80 books a year, so I've probably read between 600 and 800 books since then. But not a lick of it felt familiar to me. Which, to be clear, I loved the book. It's. It's a me problem. But yeah, I had a. I was a good thing. My memory was wiped because I had a lot of fun with it. Didn't remember any of the reveals.
- [86:31]
Olivia Mentor
Well, if you want to read something else, you can join us in reading the Burning side by Sarah Damoff, which is our listener pick for our book club pick in July. And this is about a married couple on the brink of divorce who is forced to face a lot of things when their house burns down one night. I haven't read it yet, hence my horrible pitch, but that's the general gist of it, I hear.
- [86:58]
Becca Freeman
And we also have our first bonus book club for our Summer of Soul series. And on July 6th 16th, which is a Thursday, we'll have a regular episode on Wednesday and then on Thursday we'll have a bonus episode and we're discussing the five Star Weekend by Ellen Hildebrand, which I am so excited for. So join us for that. In the meantime, you have book recs that you're excited about for the second half of the year. Come join us in the Facebook group under Baton Paper podcast. Join us in the BFF group under Baton Paper Podcast. We're on Instagram at BatonPaper Podcasts. I'm on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter is Becca freeman.substack.com and I'm all the
- [87:38]
Olivia Mentor
places at Olivia Mentor and we will
- [87:41]
Becca Freeman
see you next week for three things.
- [87:43]
Olivia Mentor
Bye Bye.