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Bad On Paper
A Moving Retrospective
00:55:20
This week, we’re reflecting on Olivia’s move to the Hudson Valley in Upstate New York! Covering everything from why she chose the location, house renovation updates, how to make friends in a new place, and when the house started to feel...
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- [00:18]
A
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Olivia, mentor.
- [00:22]
B
And I'm Becca Freeman. And today. Okay, so what you have to know is that we're doing an episode, a retrospective on Olivia's move upstate. And this was my idea, not Olivia's, because she is far too modest to want to talk about this. But I think this is so interesting because at the time when she moved, she was both so stressed and, like, a little superstitious. I don't know if you would agree with that characterization about it.
- [00:49]
A
Yeah, I was unsure. Definitely.
- [00:51]
B
Yeah. Like you couldn't talk about it in real time. And so now it's been almost two years and I want to rewind and I want to talk about the decision making process. I want to talk about renovation. I want to talk about how it's been to settle into a new place. I always see people in the Facebook group and in the comments wanting to hear about big moves or big life changes. And I was like, we have one.
- [01:13]
A
Yeah, I'm excited to do some reflecting, which I love. I'm a little self conscious about doing an episode all about me, but I agree that I think talking about big changes moves is always helpful. So I hope it is interesting to the people and if not, I think it'll be good for me.
- [01:30]
B
I think it's going to be really interesting.
- [01:32]
A
Well, let's talk about some highs and lows first. What is your high?
- [01:36]
B
I'm throwing my high out. I'm throwing. Oh, my high was going to the ballet.
- [01:41]
A
Last minute sub.
- [01:42]
B
Yeah, my high was going to the ballet. It's also that when this airs, I'm going up to Hudson for Olivia's, like, book fair thing, which you should all come too, if you're upstate. Anyway, before this recording, I just got a blast of weird energy and I decided to rearrange my office, which makes me feel very much like a teenager. I rearranged my room so much as a kid. I loved rearranging my room. And I was reading this craft book, writing down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg. I don't know if I recommend it, like mid recommend, but she was talking in it about how you don't need to decorate your space or make it really pretty. She's seen writers who spend all this time making the perfect space and then don't use it. And I was like, wow, this is me. I've never been so victimized by a book. And I just said to myself, I was like, I know exactly why I don't use my office. And it's because my desk faces a window and it's too fucking bright and I can't see the computer screen. And, like, it kind of hurts my eyes. And I don't like sitting there. And so I was like, just put the desk facing the wall. It's probably not what an interior decorator would do, but it will make it so that you can use this room that you have that's meant for work. And so I just. I flipped everything around. It was really only just moving where I had a chair and a bookcase and swapping it with my desk. And I feel so powerful right now. I mean, tbd. I'm sitting here right now. I also broke my office chair earlier this year, and I haven't replaced it. So, I mean, that's also a problem. But I feel high on life right now.
- [03:25]
A
And it's very cozy, professional looking. I was just telling Becca this, but it looks like those authors, when we zoom with them or whatever, and they have, like, this perfect background of, like, all their books and, like, surrounded by nice light and it just looks like the perfect place to exist and be creative and.
- [03:42]
B
Oh, you mean my industrial fuse box behind me looks very professional.
- [03:47]
A
Well, actually, it's. I don't know if that's just the metal color or it's painted color.
- [03:52]
B
Painted landlord gray.
- [03:54]
A
It looks like a seafoam in this light to me for some reason. And so I was like. Actually, as circuit boxes go, it looks kind of nice, I think.
- [04:04]
B
No, it's gray. But I'm glad you like it.
- [04:06]
A
There's exposed brick, and it's, like, whitewashed. It looks very nice to me.
- [04:09]
B
It's actually pink washed.
- [04:11]
A
Oh, I. Is my eyes okay?
- [04:13]
B
It's, like, very light pink, and it's so bright in here, but yeah, it is pink wick.
- [04:18]
A
It does look very cozy. And I'm glad that that, you know, has given you a burst of refreshed energy.
- [04:24]
B
I know. I feel like this is going to carry me through this draft. And also, I was saying to you before, I mostly work from my dining room table, and I hate that when I'm in drafting mode, it just, like, takes over my living area and I can't walk away from it. So I feel like containing it into a room will also just be good for my mental health generally.
- [04:45]
A
Also now you can just walk out, close the door, and know it'll be there tomorrow morning. Like, you don't, you know, you can have full separation of work and life.
- [04:54]
B
So that's my redecorating update. My, like, mini New York City already moved in. Moving update.
- [05:01]
A
I'm jealous. I can't wait to get into my office. So I understand the power of having a fresh space to work for. Sure.
- [05:07]
B
What is your high?
- [05:09]
A
My high is that I spent literally 24 hours in Miami this weekend to go to my friend Haley and her partner Caitlin's like wedding reception. They eloped, so it was like their family threw a huge party and three of my best friends were there. My most active group chat, which is called Rat Cult. Long story, but together we are the Rat Cult. And it's the first time the four of us have been together in like three or four years. A long, long time. And so it was just really nice to see them and hang out and just have like a night where we all got to spend time together. It's so rare that all of our lives are able to like coincide for one thing. And because to two of us had weddings around the pandemic or in the years after, so we had to cut our guest list back and we didn't get to go to each other's weddings. And so it was just nice to all be together for once. The group chat in real life, it was very special.
- [06:06]
B
I love that. Wait, before we go to Lowe's, can you tell us about your book fair upstate so that people can come?
- [06:15]
A
Sure. Yes. I keep meaning to do this. Thank you for reminding me. So, so I am hosting a little, I'm calling it like an adult book fair. We did have a stationary store that was gonna be there. They won't now, so it's more just gonna be a bookstore with tons of books to buy and then all of the authors will be there. So Dan Pelosi from Grossi Pelosi will be there, I'll be there, Becca will be there. And it's like an all day event at this brewery called Lasting Joy in Tivoli, New York. They have beer, wine, non alcoholic options. There's fire pits outside. There's gonna be a food truck that has delicious wood fired pizza. There's live music. What else? Oh, there's gonna be a flower bouquet truck where you can buy some flowers. Oh my gosh. And all the authors will be signing books from 2pm to 3pm so it's free entry. I do have an event page where you can just sign up so we know that you're coming and we can get a sense of crowd. We'll put that in the show notes. It's going to be fun. There's a bat on paper listener who's bringing their Embroidered goods. They make embroidered T shirts and hats and stuff and they're going to be selling them. So I'm really looking forward to it. And hopefully you can just hang out, meet friends, bring your dog, bring your kids.
- [07:32]
B
Oh, is Winnie coming?
- [07:33]
A
Winnie's not coming. She's far too high maintenance. But God bless her. You'll. You'll hang out with her before and after.
- [07:40]
B
Okay.
- [07:41]
A
But yeah, it's just gonna be very casual and fun. Fall bookish event.
- [07:46]
B
I can't wait. I've also been promised an apple cider donut. That's how I'm taking my payment.
- [07:52]
A
100%. That's on the list.
- [07:54]
B
I can't wait.
- [07:55]
A
Well, what's your low?
- [07:56]
B
My low is that I had to turn on my heat yesterday and I'm not ready all day yesterday it was very chilly here and all day I was like, am I getting sick? What's going on? I feel like I'm getting sick because it was so cold and I had on a sweatshirt and then I put on socks and then I put my like grubby sweater, my like barefoot dreams like ratty cardigan over my sweatshirt. I was so cold and I was like, I'm getting sick. I'm convinced I'm getting sick. And then finally at like 4pm I turned on the heat and I was like, no, you're not getting sick. Winter is coming.
- [08:32]
A
It got chilly this week for sure.
- [08:33]
B
It was 32 degrees when I woke up this morning. Fragile.
- [08:36]
A
Yeah. I thought you were going to talk about. And maybe you are, but when we first turn our heat on, I feel like hyper flushed all the time. Something about the way it dries out the air. My cheeks feel so warm. Until I like adjust to the heat, I guess.
- [08:53]
B
But no, I definitely feel thirstier. Like I feel dehydrated from the heat. Yes, maybe it's that too, but I feel temperature controlled.
- [09:01]
A
Oh, good. Well, hopefully it'll. I think it's going to warm up a little next week at least. Like in the 50s instead of the 30s.
- [09:09]
B
Yeah. Yeah. What's your low?
- [09:12]
A
I'm getting nervous about the presidential election. Like, it's intense. I don't know about you, it just hit me this week. I see Trump signs every single place I go here. And there's lots of Harris signs too. But like, it is close. It is close. And I'm, I'm nervous. I'm just worried. I'm worried. I don't know if you're feeling that too, but like I'm having flashbacks to 2016 intensely.
- [09:35]
B
I think I'm still coasting on some of the positivity. I don't feel super anxious yet. I did see that early voting opened this week in Atlanta and I, I was like, oh, my God, let me go vote. But it's not open here yet until next week. But I'm ready vote early. Like, don't leave it to the last day just in case you are sick or have a crazy day or something. Like, I'm, I'm ready to get my vote in asap.
- [10:03]
A
Yeah, I'm ready to. I'm scared to feel hopeful, I guess.
- [10:08]
B
But it's funny, I had a similar conversation over the summer with a friend who was like, I can't let myself feel hopeful because of how disappointed I felt last time. And I feel like I feel the opposite, where I rather feel hopeful now and deal with it after than feel hopeless and then gratified by my hopelessness.
- [10:29]
A
Right.
- [10:30]
B
Like, I think I would always, I don't want to be unrealistic. I don't want to bury my head in the sand, but I would always rather feel hopeful and I don't want to be wrong. But, you know, rather than being grim and then like being like, yes, I have confirmed the world is bad.
- [10:42]
A
Yeah, I get that. You know, it's funny, in 2016, I was definitely like, wow, Hillary's going to win, no problem. Obviously, we see how that turned out. And then in 2020, it was such a strange time in the universe that I, and like, so much absolutely crazy had happened. I was like, there is no way that Trump pulls this off. But cautious. And now I'm just like, we're in such a strange timeline. I, I have no idea. So I'll try to adopt some of your positivity and hope. And yeah, everyone go vote.
- [11:14]
B
All right, speaking of anxiety, let's take a quick ad break and then let's talk about moving.
- [11:26]
A
The show is sponsored by BetterHelp. One thing that I have absolutely loved about going to therapy for so many years is that it gives me this, like, built in sense of comfort. When I'm dealing with a recurring uncomfortable feeling, like, for example, fear. I can just say to myself, okay, so you're feeling really scared or nervous about an upcoming trip or work project now. And okay, if you're still dealing with this in a week, you know, you have therapy, you can bring this to your therapist. And it just gives me the sense of comfort and reassurance that I have that space to unpack all of those fears and negative feelings.
- [12:01]
B
If you are thinking of Starting therapy. Give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief online questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.
- [12:16]
A
Therapy has really helped me recognize just how often specific fears and anxieties repeat themselves in my life. And this has really meant the difference between identifying a problem and addressing it versus just pushing the feeling down and hoping it goes away, which, you know, that never really works.
- [12:33]
B
Overcome your fears with better help. Visit betterhelp.com batonpaper today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com badonpaper all right, Olivia, so I'm.
- [12:52]
A
In the hot seat.
- [12:53]
B
You're in the hot seat. In case anyone is newer here, Olivia lived in Philly before moving upstate. And you moved in January of 2022. Right.
- [13:05]
A
We first saw the house November 2022, and we officially moved at the end of January 2023. So yes, this January will be two years that we've lived here upstate.
- [13:15]
B
So before you lived in Philly, you lived in New York City, then you lived in Philly, and now you've gone to a much, much smaller town. And so I'm really curious on how you and Jake came to that decision.
- [13:29]
A
We just had this dream of an old house, I guess, and Jake had a dream of like some land at least like a more rural area. And towards the end of 2022, I guess we just started like looking at houses to sort of see what that would be like and to kind of dream a little bit. And we just ended up finding a house that we just felt like, okay, this is the right choice. And that was really the thought process. It wasn't even like we were like, we are moving beginning of 2023. We were moving in 2023 at all. We just kind of saw the house and it snowballed from there. It was really that fast.
- [14:04]
B
And was there no conversation about we want to buy? There's plenty of old houses in Philly, like colonial. Like I'm thinking of the ones in old town Philly that are so tiny. There was no talk of moving somewhere within Philly. You were like, we're going out of the city.
- [14:19]
A
I mean, we loved Philly, to be clear. And like we lived in a, I think it was about a hundred years old row home that we rented that I absolutely loved. But I think we were both kind of of this mindset that if we were going to move, it was Going to be, like, a change. If we were going to buy, it was going to be a big change, and it was going to be sort of a forever home project. And I don't know if that was necessarily the smartest move because we went from renting a relatively small place to owning a place that is a lot for us to deal with, a lot of room to, like, grow into if we have kids. But it's also just. It can be overwhelming. But I just had this dream of, like, having a house that had lots of projects and working on it. I'm obsessed with old things. And, you know, we wanted the land and, yeah, we ended up here.
- [15:07]
B
It does feel very on brand for you. I feel like.
- [15:11]
A
I mean, I definitely will say I romanticized the hell out of, like, small town, quiet mornings, open fields. And I still do, and I still love all of that, but I just had no idea, like, the scale of the change that we were really making. Because in Philly, I was a homebody. Like, we have more friends here than I ever had in Philly. It's just a different pace. And I thought, you know, I'm so much a homebody into my routines here. It's just gonna be the same thing, except more quiet, more trees. And that's really what I wanted. I wrote this whole, like, journal entry of all the things I wanted in a house and a property, and it was like old wood floors, like, character trees outside my window. Like, that's really what I wanted and I got it. But there's a lot more that comes along with that that you just don't realize.
- [16:01]
B
Was there, like a feeling of knowing when you saw this house or this town that you were like, this is it? Because I imagine, I mean, there's a lot of houses with trees outside the window and wood floors. No offense.
- [16:12]
A
That's true. We had seen, I'd say, maybe like half a dozen old houses before this, A lot in Pennsylvania, other ones in New York. And I don't know, we just kind of walked in the door and I just thought it was so cool. I was like, oh, my gosh, all the possibilities of what this look like. I just sort of, like, felt inspired by everything. And we both agreed. I remember we pulled out of the driveway when we first looked at the house, and I looked at Jake, and I was like, I really want this house. And I 100% expected him to be like, no. And for whatever reason, he was like, me too. And so I kind of took that as a sign as well, that we were on the Same page? Yeah. And it happens very fast after that, like, once you start the ball rolling. Like, the whole time, I was like, are we doing this? Are we doing this? And, you know, we were. We were. It was happening.
- [17:03]
B
Did you have any familiarity with this area before moving?
- [17:08]
A
We had been upstate a few times. I think we'd visited Hudson twice. I mean, really what we wanted, in addition to, like, the old house with the floors or whatever, is to be in a place that felt like in nature, pretty rural and quiet, but also had accessibility to culture and, you know, a coffee shop, a restaurant, cool bars, like, that kind of thing. And so we live pretty close to Hudson and even closer to another town that's, like, very small, but has all of that, has a farmer's market every weekend, has a coffee shop, has a bookstore. And so it felt like this really good balance of being in nature and being very quiet and small without being isolated, which was important to me.
- [17:51]
B
So, I mean, you've been very candid about your anxieties on this podcast. I'm curious. Like, I heard a lot of this offline when it was happening, but, like, how is your mental state through making such a big change?
- [18:04]
A
I mean, anyone who's ever moved anywhere, whether it's a big move or not, knows that it's, like, the most stressful experience ever. Like, it's the kind of thing where you're like, I'm never purchasing another item that I will have to one day move again. Like, it's incredibly expensive, logistically. And then it's also just scary. And we didn't know anyone here either. Like, I knew not a single soul, which was essentially the same in Philly, except for literally one person I knew, and that had worked out. So I was like, you know what? We'll just sort of follow our gut again and do this thing. And, I mean, I was extremely stressed in the beginning, but I think for the first, like, six months, I would say three to six months, I was just so excited about everything. And, like, you know, when you first move to a bigger apartment and you have space that you didn't have, and it's like, the whole world has changed for you. Things like that were just, like, incredible to me. And I remember the first night, I was, like, really freaked out at how dark it is outside. I was like, jake, this is terrifying. But I was more just, like, so excited to get started and to fix everything and to paint the walls and to make it our own. And then I think after that, I hit a point where I was like, oh, My God, what have we done? And that was when I really started to have a lot of anxiety about the scale of work. And not even work. Like, our house is old, but it's very livable. It's just like little things that I would like to change in the future. And I just grossly underestimated the time and money it would take. And I felt incredibly overwhelmed. And, you know, at the same time, like, and, you know, this, there was just a lot going on with me professionally. I was moving away from influencer stuff. I was writing this book. Just everything changed, really, about my day to day life in a big way. I didn't have the same support systems that I had had. I didn't really know anyone. I didn't even have, like, the comfort of, like, the coffee shop. I knew really well, you know, where I recognized the barista or whatever. And that I think is like, what makes moving hard sometimes is that it takes longer, or at least it took longer for me than I anticipated to really feel at home. But it happened. It just. It takes some time.
- [20:12]
B
So I definitely want to talk more about the renovation piece and go into that. But before we do, I guess I'm curious, like, are there things you miss about living in a larger city or Philly specifically?
- [20:23]
A
There's two huge things.
- [20:25]
B
Okay, what are they?
- [20:26]
A
One is I really miss having delivery. Food delivery.
- [20:32]
B
Do you even have a pizza delivery place?
- [20:35]
A
We do. Domino's come up one. No, not Domino's. Okay, but you have to come here. It's actually really frustrating because we have a DOMINO'S that's like 12 minutes away, but they don't deliver here for whatever reason. We have one pizza delivery place and that's it. The other day, out of curiosity, I just looked up Uber Eats to see what it was, and the first thing they showed me was Lowe's. And I was like, what would I be getting on Uber Eats from Lowe's? Like, that's a home goods store.
- [21:02]
B
I mean, that actually might come in handy with home renovation products. You're like, I ran out of X, Y, Z, not food.
- [21:07]
A
Yeah, Jake is there enough. But actually, Jake should be the one running the deliveries with how much he's there. But yeah, so I missed the option of food delivery. Like, there's nothing I love more than getting home from, like, the airport after a long trip, throwing all my dirty clothes in the laundry, and ordering delivery so it arrives after I get out of the shower. Not an option here.
- [21:26]
B
I also feel like there's, like this very specific night where you're like, I cannot, I cannot.
- [21:32]
A
Exactly.
- [21:32]
B
And like to not have the option to order a delivery. Like, of course you can scrounge something from your freezer or make like a weird little hobbit meal or, you know, you have Jake so you can be like, I can't do this tonight. But yeah, that would be really hard for me.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah, it's not pleasant. Also, we don't have sushi, just like generally, so that's annoying. And then the other thing is, I really miss living near an international airport. Like, that I can drive to. Like, we live 15 minutes from the airport in Philly. Could Uber. It was so easy. We had the boarding place for Winnie that we loved and it's a lot harder here. But we do live fairly close to the Albany airport, so I'll take that. But there's things I definitely very much miss.
- [22:15]
B
And like, on the flip side of that, what are the trade offs or the perks that you get if somebody else is considering a similar move from a larger city to a more rural area?
- [22:25]
A
Oh, gosh. I mean, I love walking out my door and not seeing anyone. Like, I love that I can just like essentially be mostly nude.
- [22:34]
B
I was gonna say, have you ever walked outside? If I wanted to in a state of undress? Like, not fully nude or.
- [22:40]
A
For sure. Like, I, I would be outside with no pants on. I mean, we do have neighbors that like, could see me, but it's like, so, I mean, you'll see when you're here. But they're far enough away, like everyone is so quiet into themselves that it wouldn't really be an issue. Like in Philly. Actually in Philly it'd probably be fine too.
- [22:56]
B
But I was gonna say I have a similar feeling of anonymity in a big city. Like, my apartment is a big circle, basically. And so I have to go through my office to get to the bathroom from my bedroom. And I will like walk naked through it with the windows. Like, I don't care. Like, I'm like, yeah, if I'm the naked neighbor to this person that lives. Like, there's nobody whose window looks directly into mine, which was how my last apartment was. And that made me think of it. Cause I'm like, yeah, if I saw you on the street, I would know who you were. But I think I'm far enough away from any neighbors who could see into my apartment that I don't really care.
- [23:31]
A
Yeah, definitely.
- [23:33]
B
I wouldn't step outside. I wouldn't, you know, leave my house.
- [23:37]
A
I wouldn't.
- [23:38]
B
State of undress.
- [23:39]
A
To be clear, I mean, I guess it's like, on a similar sort of note, I really enjoy the quiet. I like being outside, reading outside, eating outside. I love the garden, even though it's a work in progress just now, like, with the leaves changing. I love that. I love seeing, like, the light in our neighbors, like, fields in the morning. So I still romanticize the same stuff, I guess. And also I really love the experience of going places and, like, seeing people I know or seeing my friends and, like, knowing the name of the person that works at the bookstore or the owner of the bar or whatever. Or just, like, driving down and seeing someone I know and, like, rolling down the window and saying hi. Like, I love that stuff a lot. Which I guess you can also get that in Philly and New York. But for some reason, I feel like I was never forced to make those connections in Philly, if that makes sense.
- [24:32]
B
Well, I feel like sometimes it's, like, embarrassing. I don't know. I love the idea of being a regular, but there is a coffee shop directly across from my apartment. And, like, when my fridge was broken or, I don't know, sometimes I'll go every morning and I'm like, oh, I'm, like, embarrassed by how much I'm here because I'm like, I don't know, spending too much money. I don't know why, but, like, there is something that in my head that's like, this is embarrassing, as opposed to, this is lovely in a city.
- [24:57]
A
And I don't know why I get that even here. I feel like for all the times that we made a point to introduce ourselves to the people that work somewhere and be like, what's your name? Whatever. We're Jake and Olivia. There were the times that that exchange happens, but then we never acknowledge one another again. So we just see each other at all the same places. And I know their name, and I'm like, are we supposed to continue this etiquette of it? So, yeah, I guess it's like when you make a big move like this and you're like, we're here. This is the thing. Like, we're. If we're gonna see people we know, we literally have no choice but to make an effort.
- [25:30]
B
Is there an element.
- [25:31]
A
It pushed me out of my bubble a little.
- [25:33]
B
Is there an element of small town gossip? Like, do you know people's business and. Or can. Are you concerned about people knowing yours?
- [25:40]
A
The Hudson Valley rumor mill is unlike anything I've ever seen and probably hear some of it when you're here, but it yeah, it is just small town stuff. Like the town I live by, people that live there. It's called, like, they call it the Village. If you live in the Village and there's so much drama about, like, what businesses get what money and what owners are disliked. I've told you about the dueling bagel shops is the whole ongoing feud. So there's a lot of little stuff like that, or one person doesn't like the other. Like, it's just. It's very Gilmore Girls, mostly nonsense.
- [26:17]
B
But I'd like to be very immersed in that.
- [26:20]
A
I'll take you on the walking gossip tour.
- [26:22]
B
I would love that. Because it's like a real life episode of Normal Gossip.
- [26:27]
A
Yes. There's also. In the Village, there's this dynamic of the old guard, all of the sort of older people that live there versus the new generation, and how the older people want things a certain way. So there's that tension as well. I live outside the Village, but I prefer it that way because things get intense in the Village.
- [26:47]
B
Things get intense in the Village is such a good catchphrase.
- [26:50]
A
There is a Town meme page that I feel like we should link so people, like, no one would understand the memes. I think you follow it.
- [26:56]
B
Actually, I unfollowed it, but I did used to follow it.
- [26:59]
A
Yeah. It's really not of use to you, but it's just that kind of petty stuff.
- [27:04]
B
Okay. I want to get into the renovation stuff, so just to set the stage here, I feel like this is kind of spread across episodes. We don't need to spend so much time here, but give us, like, the timeline, like the history of the renovations that you guys have done to date.
- [27:18]
A
So we pretty much have painted and done plaster repair to every room that we spent any time in. So none of our walls are drywall. They're all plaster, which is a whole mess of an issue with an old house. So. So it requires a lot of fixing it, which Jake learned to do. We took wallpaper down into large rooms, which was an absolute nightmare, and then painted. What else? We had the floors refinished in all of the bedrooms on the second floor. Oh, my God. We had a radon mitigation system installed. It's really exciting. And then we fully renovated a bathroom that we had. So that was the biggest project, probably.
- [28:00]
B
How many rooms are there that you don't go in? Like, how many ghost rooms are there?
- [28:04]
A
So the only rooms we don't go in are. There's a third floor that has a finished room and then an attic Space, and I go in there probably once every three months.
- [28:16]
B
Okay.
- [28:17]
A
But the rest of the rooms we use.
- [28:19]
B
Okay, you just made it sound like there was, like, a whole other wing that maybe was just, like, haunted, I guess.
- [28:25]
A
I guess technically there is, but it's only one bedroom. And then the attic space. Like, eventually we want to make them into a bedroom and then, like, a media room sort of area. But. Yeah.
- [28:36]
B
So this might sound like a stupid question, but how do you even figure out what you want to do? Like, how do you figure out what you're like, okay, here's the plan. Here's the assignment. Like, where are you getting inspiration? How are you even figuring out, like, how the repair side of it works?
- [28:54]
A
That's a great question. And this is where we really should bring Jake in. But, I mean, this is actually one of the most stressful parts of the house, is that I was under this impression that it would be really easy to just sort of, like, do things gradually and that it wouldn't drive me insane to, like, have things in limbo all the time. And it's actually really hard because once you start doing one thing, like, 17 other things either arise that need to be fixed, or you're, like, now thinking about, okay, well, now that we did the floors, we have to fix the walls or whatever. It's just one thing after another. I mean, I watch all of the home renovation shows, all of the old house renovation shows. There's a lot of, like, old house people in the Hudson Valley. And so I have a lot of those friends now, which has been great. And some people who are, like, professional interior designers and who do this for a living, so that's been a great resource. Jake spends a lot of Time on YouTube, and he's also just naturally good at it. But, yes, Jake is definitely the brains and brawn behind everything. And I am sort of the person. You're the visionary at 3:00am being like.
- [30:01]
B
Jake, is there, like, a house from, I don't know, like, a TV show or a movie or, like, a celebrity home tour or someone that you follow that you're like, this is the vibe. This is the pinnacle. This is the vision?
- [30:14]
A
Gosh, that's a great question. Basically, any home that's like a Duval kitchen home, I don't know if you've ever heard of.
- [30:21]
B
No, I don't know what it is.
- [30:23]
A
It's this English brand. They renovate kitchens. But, like, the style is just. It's always an old house is usually. It's so gorgeous. There's a show they Have On Magnolia, I think. But that kind of style, I get a lot of inspiration from that. And I think it's called out with the old On Magnolia. I'm obsessed with all of those homes. Instagram mostly. Okay.
- [30:46]
B
Like, a specific person.
- [30:47]
A
I don't think there's a specific person.
- [30:49]
B
Okay, Okay. I didn't know how that works. If you're like, we're just comping this. We're basically getting as close to this as possible. Or if it's like. It sounds like it's more of a mood board situation.
- [30:59]
A
It's more of a mood board situation. When I first moved in, it was definitely like, I'm gonna have it look exactly like this. And then I learned how much things cost, and that has been an absolute journey.
- [31:10]
B
Well, actually, speaking of how much things cost, I feel like you've gotten really into thrifting in this journey or Facebook marketplacing. I don't know if we called it the same as thrifting. Like, was that something you were always into or is this something that you've like. I don't wanna say your hand has been forced, but you're like, okay, yeah, this is how we're gonna do this. Because everything's expensive.
- [31:30]
A
I think I've always liked, like, the idea of going to a flea market or an antique store and finding something cool, but I've never had the space for any of it. So that. That is part of what I really love about our house is that, like. And also sort of a problem budget wise, but I can get things and be like, well, we'll find a space for it. You know, one of the rooms we're working on, this will be good for. We're gonna need a chair. We're gonna need a headboard or whatever it is. I love secondhand shopping. Like, I haven't been to restore in like, three weeks, and I just went yesterday and it's like treasure hunting to me. It's just the most cool, fun thing. So, yeah, I've always been into it, but it just never really made sense for my house.
- [32:09]
B
Yeah. How do you decide where you're gonna buy something new versus secondhand? Is it like, if we can't find it secondhand, we'll get new? Or are there certain things that you're like, no, this obviously needs to be new.
- [32:20]
A
I mean, I think, like, anything soft I would usually get new, like a mattress, a couch.
- [32:28]
B
Okay.
- [32:29]
A
Chairs, I think are fine, like lounge chairs and stuff. But couches, I would be kind of anything that my face might be on at Some point, but everything. And then, of course, appliances and stuff. I feel like we would get new if we had it in the budget to buy new appliances at the moment. But, I mean, you can find so much cool stuff on Facebook, Marketplace, or at thrift stores.
- [32:51]
B
Are you still doing. You were collecting those flower paintings to do a gallery wall? I think that's really cool.
- [32:57]
A
Yes. Thanks. This is something I saw on Pinterest that I was like, I can do that for an affordable price. Just have, like, a whole gallery wall of oil floral paintings. I think I have about six.
- [33:09]
B
Okay. You know what would be really cool? If it was, like, all of the oil flower paintings and then that one painting of George Washington.
- [33:16]
A
Aren't you excited to see George among the flowers?
- [33:19]
B
Yeah, I'm so excited.
- [33:21]
A
George among the flowers.
- [33:22]
B
Definitely haunted.
- [33:23]
A
But you know what? The floral oil painting wall is something that, like, in theory, should look, in practice, exactly like I see it on Pinterest. And, like, in reality, it's actually much more difficult to get the right balance of, like, sizes and frames and flowers and colors.
- [33:38]
B
And so doing any gallery wall is, like, very overwhelming.
- [33:43]
A
It's very hard, but it's fun for now. And it's like, I like going to flea markets and thrift stores. And I feel like this is a good tip for anyone who likes secondhand is to, like, always have one thing that you're looking for so you don't feel overwhelmed. Like, I can just always, always know I'm looking for a floral oil painting.
- [33:59]
B
Yeah, that's the thing that's really hard for me. I was at a flea market over the weekend, and I don't have a good eye for these things where if it's like. If it's next to crap, it looks like crap to me. Like, I have friends, and you are one of them who's so good at finding a hidden treasure. And I'm. I'm just like, look at all this crap.
- [34:17]
A
It's really overwhelming. Like, when we went to Brimfield, I was honestly, like, borderline in a coma, because I was like, it is so many objects, and so much of it is really terrible. And then also, gauging how much to pay for something is really hard, I think. Yeah. I mean, I've definitely bought, like, a lot of things from Restore that. Now I'm like, why did I do that? But I feel like when it's so affordable, you might as well just try, or it can be a good placeholder until you can afford something different or better.
- [34:47]
B
And so. Okay, so right now, we're on the office cottage. And then do you know what the next thing you're doing is? Or is that, like, you're going to take a break once you have.
- [34:58]
A
I think after this, we're going to take a break and just save for the kitchen, which is going to be an absolutely massive undertaking because it will involve moving a bathroom.
- [35:08]
B
And you're also going to do, like, structural renovations for the kitchen. Right. Because you. You want more light. Or is that what the bathroom part is?
- [35:17]
A
That's partially the bathroom, yeah. So the kitchen right now is the oldest part of the house, and the ceilings are super low, so we're gonna have to deal with the ceilings, and we're gonna have to sort of open it up in some way. All the windows are gonna have to be changed. It's.
- [35:30]
B
Yeah. It's not just, like, paint and cabinets and appliances.
- [35:34]
A
No. I laugh so hard at the version of myself that was like, a year after we move in, we'll probably do the kitchen. Like, silly Olivia. But I have learned to be a lot more patient, which I am really grateful for. And I don't know, there's something really great about taking your time renovating a house because you're not just renovating it all with whatever trends you're into in that exact moment. It gives you time to, like, not be in the house in five years and be like, well, you know, this is all great for five years ago, Olivia. Yeah. So I try to look at it that way.
- [36:05]
B
That's very smart. Okay, let's take an ad break, and then I want to get to Friends, which is, like, kind of why I wanted to do this episode.
- [36:17]
A
This show is sponsored by Book of the Month. One of my worst habits is when I have a book in the back of my mind for such a long time, but for some reason, like, weeks and weeks go by before I finally remember to purchase it. And this is why I love Book of the Month, because they curate titles that are often already on my radar, and it makes it that much easier to ensure that they arrive at my door each and every month. And I don't spend months and months having FOMO about not having read them or bought them yet.
- [36:44]
B
So I don't disagree with you. But I did get a book for my Book of the Month this month that I'd never heard of, so it's also a good place for discovery. I got the Dagger and the Flame by Kathryn Doyle, and honestly, I was just taken in by the description. I'm just always looking for something to fill the fourth wing sized hole in my heart. And so the description said the most fiery, which I hope means smell muddy enemies to lovers. Romantasy of the year. So that was pretty much all one needed to say. But if you need a little more, the next line of the description was, in the dark underbelly of a beautiful city, two rival assassins are pitted against each other in a deadly game of revenge where the most dangerous mistake of all is falling in love. And I was like, how quickly can I press add to cart? How quick can I say make this my book.
- [37:36]
A
That sounds great for fall for a nice sort of dark, romantic read. Well, one of the authors that I have been meaning to check out for, like ever is Frieda McFadden, which if you read thrillers, you've probably seen her books literally everywhere. And so I am very excited to finally see what the twists and turns are all about because I chose the Boyfriend, which is her new book, as one of my book of the month picks. And this one was pitched as serial dater meets serial killer, which I thought was just a genius series of words. And I'm very intrigued and excited to read this one.
- [38:10]
B
If you're new to Book of the Month, we have an amazing deal for you. You can get your first book on Book of the month for $5 with code pumpkin. That's a brand new hardcover book for just $5 with code pumpkin. P U M P K I N and one more very important thing, make sure to select bat on paper in the survey after you check out so the brand knows where you heard about the deal. Okay, Olivia. So I feel like if this podcast had a major, it's obviously books, but if it had a minor, I feel like our minor might be friendship. When Grace was the host of the podcast and we did our tour in 2019, friendship was a huge topic that we talked about. I feel like I'm so excited by people creating book clubs and making IRL friendships through the podcast. Whenever we do advice things, we get so many questions about friendships. So I feel like this is the year that you've made local friends. Or maybe that's just my perception and I wanna know what that journey has been like.
- [39:17]
A
Yeah. As you were talking about the live shows, it reminded me that when I did the live show as a guest with you guys in Philly, one of the questions was like, how do you make friends? And I was like, I honestly don't have any friends here. And it became this like joke during the show. But the truth is that I like, I really.
- [39:35]
B
Well, that Wasn't why. It was a joke. It was a joke because you told the weirdest story about, like, some woman that you met at a workout class. It wasn't.
- [39:42]
A
And then I forgot her name in front of you. Or like, yeah, I know. I wasn't making fun of you.
- [39:47]
B
It was a joke because it was, like, a weird story.
- [39:50]
A
I was like, well, I have this one friend. And then you were like. Or someone was like, what's her name? And I was like, I do not remember. Anyway, I'm traditionally not very good at making friends, which I think a lot of people struggle with that. But here I was like, okay, you've got to do this. You're here. You're locked in.
- [40:08]
B
Yeah. This is forever home territory.
- [40:11]
A
Yeah. I was like, if you're gonna be here and be sane, like, you've gotta. You've gotta find your people. So, I mean, I think I did get a little bit lucky in some senses, because the bookstore opened in town about a year after we moved here. And that really helped because I just basically showed up on the first day and I was like, hello, I'm Olivia. I wrote a book, Can We Be Friends? And I just kept showing up.
- [40:36]
B
Who did? The person who worked there? Like, just anyone in the store?
- [40:39]
A
Yes, yes. Greg and Mindy. And so it kind of helped that, like, I had the event with them, and then, like, I had to go back to Planet, and then I worked with them to do this book fair thing. And so I kept going. And then I met a guy who worked there who was like, oh, we should hang out with my wife. And then it kind of just all snowballed.
- [40:58]
B
You made friends through this around projects?
- [41:02]
A
Yes, yes. And I think in general, like, a tip I would give is to find a place like that where, you know, you're gonna find people who you will like the same things as them, like a bookstore or something, and just show up as much as possible and introduce yourself to everyone. I always, like, tried to make a point of saying, like, it's so hard to make friends here, because it is genuinely very hard, especially in this area, because there are a lot of people that don't live here full time, and there are not a lot of people my age. There are, and I found them, and they're wonderful, but it really takes, like, that repeated effort to sort of find your people. But, yes, the bookstore has been, like, my safe haven.
- [41:44]
B
And has it been a case of you find one friend who has lived there longer and you can kind of infiltrate. Sounds very nefarious. But Kind of dive into their friend group, or have you just curated one off groups of friends and brought them together? I remember when you had your chimp crazy night. Are you plugging into an existing group or you're starting the group?
- [42:06]
A
It's kind of a mix of both. It's almost like I made friends with one couple, and then they knew a couple, and then I met someone else, and then I brought them to the chimp crazy night. So it feels very college in a way, you know, like, where you know all these people separately, and then you're.
- [42:23]
B
Like a Spanish class with this guy.
- [42:24]
A
Invited to a party. Yeah, exactly. And there are just so many, like, cool things going on around here, too, like different restaurants and bars and festivals and art things. And so it's just nice that you eventually end up seeing people, you know, again and again and again. And then it makes it more comfortable to be, like, friends. I will also say I had someone. One of my friends, Sean, who is also renovating an old house up here, literally messaged me and was like, we're gonna be friends. And I was like, okay. And wouldn't you know, it. It worked, and now we're friends. So honestly, that type of confidence and, like, just belief it's gonna work is sometimes what you need. Just say, we're gonna be friends. We're gonna make this happen, and, you know, it works out.
- [43:09]
B
How have you dealt with your social anxiety during this? Like, is it just putting yourself out there that has been scary, or is it, like, hanging out with people for the first time? Are you like, olivia, we're just gonna do this? Like, how have you worked around that? Because I think that's very common too.
- [43:25]
A
Yeah, that's a good question. You know, something I found that's really helpful is I try to, like, be honest about it. So, for example, after I did my book event in town, I was sort of still getting to know people. And afterwards, like, the bookstore owner and a few different people, like, we all had a glass of wine together. And I just started talking about how, like, every time I leave a social event, I literally just have a litany of things that I did wrong. And that's how my social anxiety manifests is that I'm just convinced, like, oh, they hated me. Why did I answer the question this way? Why did they say that? Does that mean something else? And as soon as I said that, there was, like, three other people who were like, I get that way, too. And that was something that really helped me sort of put it in perspective. And I think I've, I've generally gotten a lot better because I've been forced to be so much more social this year than I'm used to. I feel like you're, like, so naturally social. It's inspiring to me. Like, I, I. You never experienced that, right? Where you leave somewhere and you're like, oh, gosh, why did I say that? Or why did I do that?
- [44:25]
B
I mean, once in a rare while, I'll really stick my foot in it and it will be clear that I have made a social faux pas. But no, generally no. And I mean, I think some of it is being an only child that I had to become very comfortable making friends because I didn't have siblings. I didn't have that built in, that built in safety net. And then I think just personality wise, I generally tend more extroverted.
- [44:49]
A
I love that.
- [44:51]
B
Okay, to end our moving retrospective, I have some, like, capstone questions here. Is there a moment that you can think of where this house felt like home and how long after you moved did you get that feeling or have you had that feeling?
- [45:08]
A
Yeah, I would say it took me like a year.
- [45:11]
B
Okay. What happened?
- [45:12]
A
I think part of it was, I'm trying to think of an exact moment, but part of it was really knowing people and, like, feeling like I was involved in the town and like, part of a community really helped me. And then the moments where I'm able to come home and, like, see the things that we've done and feel really proud of them, that really is this moment where I feel such, like, comfort and pride that we, like, did this because it's really easy to get bogged down in, like, all the things left to do, all the things wrong with the house in my mind, you know, and then I think also the times in the past year where we have gone away and come back and I've been like, so happy just to be in my house with, like, the familiar, the familiar sounds of, like, the really loud train and the light and, like, how it feels in the morning and my routines. That's been a real moment of, like, okay, I feel like this is home now, but it took me a lot longer than I expected, which was really uncomfortable.
- [46:14]
B
Yeah.
- [46:14]
A
So if that's you, it's normal.
- [46:17]
B
I know we talked about not understanding how long renovations would take or how expensive they were, but do you have any other, like, regrets or anything you'd do differently if you could do it again?
- [46:29]
A
Yeah, I would not have done anything like the first six months. And instead we did everything, which was, I think, really hard because, like, all the excitement wore off, and it was like we were neck deep in a bunch of different projects and really overwhelmed. So I would have just.
- [46:47]
B
And it. Was it because of the overwhelm or because you would have done different things first or you would have spent money differently if you'd waited?
- [46:55]
A
Probably both.
- [46:56]
B
Okay.
- [46:57]
A
Yeah, probably both. I mean, there's a reason why people buy houses and then do all the renovations at once. Like, I see that now because it's a lot easier to sort of plan. But like I said, there's pros to both. But, yeah, I would have waited. Every single old house thing I read and listened to was like, when you move in, don't do anything for six months to a year.
- [47:18]
B
And you were like, that doesn't apply to me.
- [47:20]
A
And I was like, nope, I'm about to have an HGTV show.
- [47:23]
B
It's like when every author is like, all first drafts are bad. And I'm like, I have to be the exception to that. It's like, of course I'm not.
- [47:30]
A
It really does feel like, obviously this will be completely second nature and easy to me, despite never doing this before, never living in an old house and renovating it myself and having no experience whatsoever.
- [47:42]
B
But if you could go back and give January 2023 Olivia advice about this, what would you say to your past self or to a listener who's maybe contemplating something similar?
- [47:55]
A
Gosh, I guess just to be more patient and just to wait and to not be so committed to having everything look how you want it to look in your head. Because even if I had millions of dollars and endless time, it probably still wouldn't look exactly like it is in my head, because that's just. That's life. That's with anything. You know, you imagine it, it happens, and it's different. And so, yeah, just to lean into the patience a bit more. Okay, I got there, took a while.
- [48:26]
B
I loved this. I feel like I learned a lot of new things. It made me very excited, especially, what.
- [48:31]
A
Do I have to do with you now?
- [48:33]
B
Well, it made me very excited, especially because I'm coming up there next weekend. So now I feel like I have the primer on some of the house stuff, some of the town stuff. I'm very excited.
- [48:43]
A
You know, I also will say, like, and you know this, but I was very panicked about having guests for a really long time. Like, I was like, no one can be here. It's a construction zone. It's terrible. And having friends over and stuff, and having people comment and say, Nice things about the house has really, like, put it in perspective for me. And so I'm very excited to have you visit. And I feel like I've come a long way about that as well.
- [49:05]
B
I'm so excited too. And it's the perfect time of year for it. I can't wait.
- [49:10]
A
It's so pretty up here. I'm so excited.
- [49:18]
B
All right, let's get out of this discussion. Thank you for doing this. I loved that. Let's get into some obsessions. Olivia, what are you obsessed with?
- [49:26]
A
I am obsessed with watching Real Housewives on planes.
- [49:30]
B
Which housewives?
- [49:31]
A
Right now I'm watching Orange county and Salt Lake City.
- [49:34]
B
Okay.
- [49:35]
A
So I've been, like, buying the whole seasons on Amazon prime, and then they just automatically download to my phone. But when I flew to Miami, I had, like, four episodes of Salt Lake City. So I got on my little plane. I had all my episodes downloaded. I had my coffee. I was in the exit row. It felt like 10 seconds went by. I was so invested in the Salt Lake City Housewives Triple to Milwaukee. I loved it. Like, now I'm gonna save Housewives episodes for every flight because it was honestly, as if I wasn't even on a plane. I was just transported somewhere else. It was excellent. I really recommend it.
- [50:10]
B
The only Housewives franchise I watch is the New New York, and I'm so excited that it's back.
- [50:16]
A
I'm gonna download that one, too.
- [50:17]
B
Great.
- [50:18]
A
Well, what are you obsessed with?
- [50:20]
B
Okay. I feel like I'm encroaching on your territory because I have a fall candle obsession, so.
- [50:26]
A
How dare you?
- [50:27]
B
Historically, I am a bit of what one might call a candle hoarder. Like, Grace is a very, like, candle. She's a candle slut. You know, always multiple candles burning in her home at once. And I'm like, I have this weird, like, depression era. Like, I can't waste it. Can't waste it on myself, or, like, I don't know what it is. And so one of my favorite candles, historically, is the Brooklyn Candle Studio apple cider candle. And I ordered it a couple weeks ago when the weather started to cool off. And, Olivia, I. Well, I bought two. I'm almost through the first one. I'm burning it every day. It is making me so happy. I love the way this makes my kitchen smell or my whole living area smell. I am, like, in a whole fall mood with this.
- [51:16]
A
Sounds delicious.
- [51:17]
B
It also, I feel like I can be very picky about candles. Like, I. I do not like a Bath and Body Works candle. They feel too I don't know what the right word is, but it's like, there's something about the perfuminess. There's, like, a cloyingness to it that gives me a headache, and I really like that. This is, like. It's fall, but it's a lighter, not headache, fall.
- [51:36]
A
Great. Well, what are you reading?
- [51:38]
B
Okay, so I finished Fang Fiction by Kate Stamen London, which I was reading last week, and I loved, then stuck the landing. Absolutely loved it. I just feel like it was. I mean, first of all, it was really fun, which is what I wanted and needed. It was just such a fun premise of a woman finding out that the world of her favorite vampire series was real and getting sucked into it. There was just so much fun stuff about reading and fandom, and I really loved that. And also just. I think vampire novels are. I generally enjoy them, so I really liked that. But I also thought it was much more thoughtful than I might have expected, too. Yeah, I had a blast. And now I started. Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason. Have you read this?
- [52:26]
A
No, I haven't even heard of this.
- [52:27]
B
Oh. I feel like this is extremely up your alley. So it's like a voicey British literary fiction book. It is about a woman who is, like, very particular, who, like the first chapter of the book. Her husband leaves her, and she has to. I think where it's going is she has to move in with her very eccentric family. But the writing is incredible. Like, great character study, very funny, very British. But I'm enjoying this a lot. I've heard a lot of people rave about this being a favorite book, and this is part of my backlist fall project of. I've actually owned this one. I think this came up when Jenny Jackson was on the podcast two years ago, and I bought this book, and it's been sitting in my pile because I have a lot of weird guilt about not reading new releases. And this fall, I've given myself permission, and I am really excited to go back to books that I missed at the time.
- [53:26]
A
Oh, good. That does sound very good.
- [53:28]
B
What are you reading?
- [53:30]
A
I am currently halfway through, like, three different books, one of which is Night Circus, So I did.
- [53:35]
B
Thank you.
- [53:36]
A
I did do the thing I said I was gonna do, and I'm enjoying it immensely. And it is a great fall book. It's, like, all set in October, and there's. I just. I love a repeated description of the smell of salted caramel in the air. It's just. It's really great. Anyway, I'll be back next week with more updates when I finish a few things, including that I think, well, next.
- [53:57]
B
On my list is our October book club pick, which is Bel Canto by Ann Patchett. This is from 2001. It takes place in South America at a birthday party for a powerful businessman and a band of terrorists crashes the party and takes all of the guests hostage. So, you know, definitely like a locked room, weird bedfellows, people who don't know each other well have to all of a sudden come together and lean on each other. I'm very, very excited for this one.
- [54:28]
A
I'm like maybe 150 pages into this. So I will save all my thoughts for the podcast.
- [54:34]
B
Ooh. If you would like to talk to us about moving, about renovating, about making new friends, about any book you've liked recently about fall candles, come join us in the Geneva group. Just search Bat on Paper podcast. You can also join our Facebook group, also under batonpaper Podcast. We're on Instagram, you guessed it, batonpaper Podcast. I am on Instagram ecamfreeman and I'm also writing twice a week ish on my newsletter, which you can subscribe to@beccafreeman.substack.com.
- [55:08]
A
And I'm oliviamentor on all the platforms.
- [55:11]
B
And we will see you next week.
- [55:13]
A
Bye.