August 2025 Three Things

Summary

Bad On Paper Podcast: August 2025 Three Things – Detailed Summary

Release Date: August 13, 2025

Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter

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Introduction

In the August 2025 episode of Bad On Paper, hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter dive into their weekly "Three Things" segment, sharing personal highs and lows, discussing pertinent topics, and engaging in light-hearted activities. This episode balances heartfelt discussions with playful banter, providing listeners with both depth and entertainment.

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Personal Highs and Lows

Olivia's High: Book Release Celebration [00:46 – 03:55]

Olivia shares the excitement of revealing her second book, Little One, during a COVID-themed reveal event. She expresses gratitude for the overwhelming positive response, particularly highlighting a heartfelt blurb from Amity Gage, a respected figure she has frequently featured on their podcast.

"It felt like almost there was more of a chance that people were like, I’m out. I don’t care. I know, here’s that amazing blurb."
— Olivia Mentor [02:34]

Despite battling imposter syndrome, Olivia appreciates the support and anticipates the book's positive reception.

Becca's High: Lake House Retreat and Connection [03:56 – 05:05]

Becca recounts a delightful summer weekend at her friend Natalie's lake house, emphasizing the serene boat excursions and vibrant community. A highlight was hosting a wine and cheese happy hour where Olivia made a guest appearance, enriching the experience.

"It just feels so different from my day to day life."
— Becca Freeman [04:38]

This annual tradition offers Becca a refreshing escape and strengthens her bond with Olivia.

Becca's Low: Food Poisoning Incident [05:05 – 06:38]

Contrasting the high, Becca reveals she suffered from food poisoning during the trip, leading to discomfort and missing out on a social gathering. However, she found solace in staying in, watching Summer I Turned Pretty with Natalie's dog.

"I don’t want to blame Natalie. This is not her fault."
— Becca Freeman [05:19]

Olivia's Low: Struggling with Discipline [06:38 – 09:19]

Olivia discusses feeling off her usual productive routine due to being between projects. The revelation of her book led her to spend excessive time online, impacting her discipline and exercise habits. She grapples with self-criticism but acknowledges the need to be kinder to herself.

"My low. But overall it’s been a very high week."
— Olivia Mentor [08:55]

Becca reassures Olivia, emphasizing the importance of taking breaks, especially during summer vacations.

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Deep Dive into AI: Educational Impact and Consumer Implications

Exploring AI in Education [22:23 – 35:55]

Becca introduces Megan O'Rourke's New York Times opinion piece, "I Teach Creative Writing. And This is What AI is Doing to Students". The article examines a Yale professor's journey in integrating AI into her teaching, initially viewing it as a valuable tool for administrative tasks but eventually recognizing its detrimental impact on genuine human interaction and creativity.

"The act of care or intention is what makes meaning possible."
— Megan O'Rourke (Paraphrased)
— Becca Freeman [25:48]

Olivia resonates with the article, sharing her discomfort with relying on AI for personal communications and expressing concerns about AI replacing meaningful human connections.

AI's Unintentional Integration into Products [35:55 – 41:58]

Becca brings up Ted Goya's Substack article, "The Force Feeding of AI on an Unwilling Public", highlighting how companies bundle AI into their products without offering consumers the choice to opt-out. This strategy obscures the true profitability of AI features and forces unwanted integration, likening it to a "restaurant selling granite rocks for dessert."

"It's like a slow motion car crash because while we're sitting here thinking about all the benefits, everyone's ignoring everything we're losing."
— Olivia Mentor [29:09]

The discussion underscores the ethical implications of AI's pervasive presence in everyday tools and the need for consumer protection through legislation.

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Face Shapewear from Skims: Redefining Beauty Standards

Product Overview and Critique [42:42 – 50:49]

Olivia introduces Skims' latest innovation: face shapewear designed to tighten and support facial features, humorously branded with collagen-infused yarns—an element Olivia skeptically dismisses.

"It's so disturbed to me."
— Olivia Mentor [43:57]

Both hosts express unease over the product's implications on beauty standards, attributing its boldness to the Kardashians' influential presence in the beauty industry. They debate the broader impact on societal perceptions of beauty and the perpetuation of unrealistic standards.

"It's fucking unhinged."
— Becca Freeman [50:46]

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Interactive Segment: The Word Game

Attempting "Same Word Challenge" [52:37 – 58:01]

Seeking to add a playful element, Becca introduces a word association game where both hosts attempt to say related words simultaneously. Despite multiple attempts, the exercise proves challenging, highlighting the spontaneity required in such interactive games.

"It's really wild."
— Becca Freeman [57:42]

Though unsuccessful, the segment adds a touch of levity to the episode.

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Labubus: The Latest Fashion Fad [58:12 – 67:18]

Becca and Olivia delve into the emerging trend of "Labubus," collectibles gaining traction in New York City. They explore its cultural significance, economic implications, and personal opinions on its place in modern fashion.

"It's a way for people to participate in an economic trend."
— Becca Freeman [63:43]

Olivia remains skeptical, questioning the trend's sustainability and its reflection of broader consumer behavior influenced by capitalism.

"We’re missing out on the world... it's all feels bad."
— Olivia Mentor [40:16]

The conversation touches on how such trends mirror deeper economic frustrations and offer accessible forms of participation compared to more substantial investments like the stock market.

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Summer I Turned Pretty: A Cultural Examination [67:02 – 74:53]

Discussing the popular TV series Summer I Turned Pretty, Becca and Olivia analyze its current season, character developments, and the intense fandom discourse surrounding romantic plotlines. Becca highlights the show's emotional depth, especially scenes reflecting personal loss, while Olivia notes the polarized audience support for different characters.

"I'm scared for what will happen on the Internet if they changed the ending."
— Becca Freeman [71:27]

They also touch on the off-screen controversies surrounding cast members, which add layers to the show's reception and fan engagement.

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Book Club Spotlight: Evening Reads

Current Pick: "Night in the Moth" by Rachel Gillig [80:25 – 83:50]

Becca announces the book club's next discussion topic, Night in the Moth, a romantasy novel praised for its atmospheric storytelling and unique romantic dynamics. She encourages listeners to participate and share their thoughts, building anticipation for deep literary conversations.

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Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with Olivia promoting her novel, Little One, and both hosts inviting listeners to engage through their social media platforms and upcoming guest announcements.

"You can join us in the Facebook group @batonpaper podcast or on Instagram @batonpaper podcast."
— Olivia Mentor [83:50]

Becca shares her excitement for future episodes and book discussions, fostering a sense of community among the podcast's audience.

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Notable Quotes

• "I'm feeling good." — Olivia Mentor [03:37]
• "It's breasts-like but it's for the face." — Olivia Mentor [42:55]
• "It's my third and final season." — Becca Freeman [67:05]
• "I love a haunted trinket." — Olivia Mentor [64:12]

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Conclusion

This episode of Bad On Paper offers a rich blend of personal anecdotes, critical discussions on AI and societal trends, and engaging interactions between the hosts. Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter provide insightful perspectives while maintaining an approachable and relatable dialogue, making the episode both informative and enjoyable for listeners.

Transcript

[Olivia Mentor]

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bottom Paper Podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.

[Becca Freeman]

And I'm Becca Freeman.

[Olivia Mentor]

And today is a Three Things episode.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, we had a. A very serious episode last week. We've also gotten so much lovely feedback on our episode about comparison and competition. So this week is more of a grab bag. A little. A little bit of a sillier one, if you will.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I. I loved reading all of that feedback.

[Becca Freeman]

It.

[Olivia Mentor]

It really has meant a lot to me. But I'm excited about this one too.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, before we get into it, tell me your high.

[Olivia Mentor]

My high is that I finally got to reveal the COVID for Little One, and I've been waiting very patiently for weeks and multiple months now. And I was just so thrilled and got to do a really cool article with people, which was, like, very surreal and it was so amazing to see how excited people were and how much people cared. Because I think something that's kind of interesting about this being my second book is that there's, like, already a basis by which people can make their opinion about whether or not they want to read this book. So it felt like almost there was more of a chance that people were like, I'm out. I don't care. You know, I don't care. I've already decided I don't like her. And of course, there's also the added benefit of there's more people who have hopefully read the book and liked it want a second one. But you just. I don't know, you just don't know how it's gonna go. You don't know if people are gonna care. You build it up in your mind to be this big thing, because you know, it is. It's like I was thinking this morning, I was like, I wonder how many more times in my life I'll get to have that moment. And it's so special. So I really did enjoy all of it and I'm so thankful for the response from everyone. And you can pre order it right now.

[Becca Freeman]

Yes, you should. Well, from the outside at least, it looked like you were the queen of the Internet for a day. I saw so many excited comments and re shares. It looked great, but I feel like you are burying to me what feels like one of the most important pieces of this, that you have this phenomenal blurb from Amity Gage, who you have brought up on this podcast no less than 15 times this year.

[Olivia Mentor]

I know.

[Becca Freeman]

Conservative estimate.

[Olivia Mentor]

It was so surreal. When it landed in my inbox, I had no idea if she would do it. She's so busy. Obviously and talented and a professor at Yale and all this stuff. So to have her seal of approval in some way is. Yeah, dealing with a lot of imposter syndrome. I'll be totally honest, Like, a lot of imposter syndrome. But I'm trying to just accept it and be grateful, but it's surprisingly hard, especially, I think, total transparency with blurbs. You know, we have so many connections in the industry through the podcast. We have people on the podcast and we meet them that way, and then later maybe we may or may not ask them for a blurb. And so in the back of my mind, I'm like, are they doing this because they like it? Are they doing this because they feel like they have to?

[Becca Freeman]

No. Nobody is reading a whole book and saying something nice about it and putting their name and stamp of approval on something just to be nice. Like, that's a huge ask. And her blurb was so lovely and specific, like, you earned this, girl.

[Olivia Mentor]

Thank you. I'm waiting on the other blurbs, which, as you know, is quite the mental turmoil. Wait. But I'm. I'm excited and so thankful that anyone has agreed to read it, and especially Amity, who is one of the kindest people I've ever met, actually. So thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you to everyone. I'm feeling good.

[Becca Freeman]

Good.

[Olivia Mentor]

What's your high?

[Becca Freeman]

My high is that last weekend I went up to my friend Natalie's house upstate. She has a lake house and it's become an annual tradition to do a summer weekend up there. It's so fun. It just feels so different from my day to day life. She has a little pontoon boat, and it's like we don't even get in a car and go anywhere. Instead, we go everywhere by boat. She has this very vibrant community of friends on the lake. So we're just like, boat into other people's houses and it's the cutest thing to me, but also, I got to see you while I was up there. She hosted a, like, wine and cheese happy hour one day and you came over. It was just so fun.

[Olivia Mentor]

Such a beautiful home and spa on the lake and the best weather imaginable.

[Becca Freeman]

The best weather.

[Olivia Mentor]

Everyone was in, like, sweatshirts and denim shorts, which is, you know, an ideal combo, I think, actually.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my gosh. Perfect.

[Olivia Mentor]

You really got lucky with the weather.

[Becca Freeman]

I know. That's what she said about 8 million times when we were there. She was like, I think this is the nicest weekend we've had this summer.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. I'm so glad you got to enjoy it on the lake, as I feel like it's the perfect place to do it.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, the lake also happens to be my low because the lake giveth and the lake taketh away. I don't want to blame Natalie. This is not her fault. But I do think I got food poisoning on Saturday.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

I was fine, and then I was all of a sudden very not fine.

[Olivia Mentor]

That happens. You did, if I recall, get lobster the day before.

[Becca Freeman]

We did. We got lobster rolls and oysters. So maybe it was that. I don't know.

[Olivia Mentor]

But everyone else was fine.

[Becca Freeman]

Everyone else was fine.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. Do you have an idea of, like, what the culprit was? No, no, that's the worst.

[Becca Freeman]

Or maybe it was just, like a stomach virus or something. But it stinks. To feel not good. And especially stomach. Not good at somebody else's house.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, it's hell. The only thing worse would be a plane.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, yeah, Absolutely. She was so kind about it, though. So I ended up. They went to a party that her friend was throwing on Saturday night, and I ended up staying in and watching the Summer I Turned Pretty in my Oxford year with her dog in her den instead, which was also kind of nice, to be honest.

[Olivia Mentor]

Is the Summer I Turned Pretty. I haven't watched since the first season. Is this season, like, controversial or something? I'm seeing a lot of.

[Becca Freeman]

Olivia, you're ruining. This is one of my things. And I thought you were watching.

[Olivia Mentor]

Sorry.

[Becca Freeman]

We can talk about it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, I'm not, but we can talk about it. Clearly, I'm still interested.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

So we'll discuss. Okay, But I'm sorry you were sick. That's absolutely the worst.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, it wasn't fun. What about you? What is your low?

[Olivia Mentor]

My low is that, you know, I've been pretty disciplined this year. Like, I have had a routine in all of the important areas of my life, and I have stuck to it intensely. And this week, I am sort of in between things. My current draft of book three is with my agent. We talk next week. So I can't really. Mentally, I feel like I can't work on it because it's like, you know, on Tuesday, she could be like, try again. The COVID reveal was this week. I had a big meeting for Little One this week, and so I was like, you know what? I'll just focus on really enjoying those moments, really being present for the meeting. I will work on podcast stuff here and there, of course, but, like, I'll take a step back from the daily, like, creative stuff I do with writing and editing and I finished Copy Edits last week, so I'm really in between a lot of things. My plan was to read a lot because we have the book club book. We have a book for a really cool interview that we're doing coming up. So stay tuned for that. And I just didn't, I didn't really do that. I had also some books that I'm reading to send blurbs to. I had plans of that. I got behind on that. It really, really derailed me. I allowed myself to be extremely online for the COVID reveal on Wednesday. For the COVID reveal, which I'm really glad I did. I just like felt so warm and fuzzy and excited and happy. But I noticed how quickly I was like staying online. You know, I was like, I think I can download Instagram maybe like four times a day now instead of my usual two. Or I can stay here for a really long time or I can scroll in bed, or I can just wake up in the morning and immediately look at Instagram to see if more people have shared the COVID reveal or something. I just, I went down a slippery slope of non productivity and scrolling very fast.

[Becca Freeman]

I understand why you feel poorly about this given the boundaries that you've instituted and given how committed to a routine you've been. But like, I think you're being too hard on yourself. This is one week when you didn't actually have anything that you had to do. Like, this is your summer vacation.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. It's okay, you know, it's not the end of the world. I just wish I was teensy, tiny bit more disciplined. I also haven't, like, exercised this week. I've been slacking on my walk, so I'm just feeling a little bit like off my normal game. But we'll get back to it next week and who cares?

[Becca Freeman]

Take a week.

[Olivia Mentor]

You're right. You're right. So if I have to have a low, that's the low. But overall it's been a very high week.

[Becca Freeman]

And yeah, you haven't had a vacation this summer. This is it. You're staycationing.

[Olivia Mentor]

I am going to Charleston soon, so. Okay, that's all. I can still let me have a.

[Becca Freeman]

Sense that you're okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

Fine, I'll accept it. I'll accept it. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're totally right.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, let's take a quick ad break and let's get into some things. This episode is sponsored by Quints and as I've shared, I have found quite a few different summer staples from quints that are now some of my most worn pieces in my wardrobe. But did you know that they also have home items? I did not. But last month I bought the Aerie gauze blanket and I am obsessed. It's been so hot this summer and to sleep I need more than just a sheet. And this is the absolute thinnest, softest blanket. And it has absolutely changed the game for me. Do you know what it is? It's muslin. It's like a giant baby swaddle. It is like a king sized full bed baby swaddle. It's so light and airy and it comes in a zillion colors. This is something that I have been evangelizing to every single one of my friends in real life. I cannot stop talking about how much I love this blanket.

[Olivia Mentor]

And if you're shopping for clothes, Quince also has amazing summer to fall transitional pieces like very chic cashmere and light cotton sweaters that start at just $40. They have washable silk tops, classic denim pants, and basically any denim style you could potentially think of or dream up. And the best part is that everything with Quints is half the cost of similar brands. So by working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. Which I think is why all of the pieces from Quince that I've received feel so luxurious in quality and just a step above clothing from other brands that I've tried. And personally from quints I have been eyeing for fall, the Mallorca sunglasses, which are like a round kind of 90s shape with a little bit of an edge. And I have gotten sunglasses from Quints in the past and loved the quality so, so much so I am looking at these closely.

[Becca Freeman]

Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quints. Go to Quince.com BoP for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C CE.com BoP to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com BoP into the things Olivia, you are the Internet's princess this week with your cover reveal. So I demand that you go first.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. I am going to kick things off with a book related one.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

I want to talk about DNFing.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

Really? Interestingly, I don't know if you saw this. Someone posted a thread in the Facebook group that was like let's share DNFs of this week. And I thought it was kind of fascinating, actually. It was just an interesting way to come at it. And so I kept thinking about dnfing. I've been listening to a lot of book podcasts lately. I surprisingly can't get enough of them. And a lot of people talk about what books they've DNF'd on those type of podcasts. And we don't talk about that a lot for a lot of reasons. But I was curious, do you have a dnfing system? Do you have a standard where you're reading, you're like, I'm out. You get to a certain page number, you're not into it, I'm out. Or you read something, I'm out. Or is it kind of just vibes?

[Becca Freeman]

It's vibes. It's vibes. I have been reading a lot on my Kindle this year and so I don't necessarily track page counts as closely. I would say when reading a paper book, I usually give it 50 pages and if I'm not in by 50 pages, I put it aside. Or sometimes it's not even that I don't like a book, it's that I'm reading it and I can identify that it's not the right mood for me right now. And a lot of times this year I've put things aside because they feel too heavy for me right now, like it's a depressing topic or there's just too much darkness in a book. And I'm like, I can't do this right now. So I usually give a book around 50 pages, but on my Kindle, it's definitely more vibe based. I would say I probably dnf three to four books a month.

[Olivia Mentor]

Wow. Do you think that that number has increased or you've always been pretty comfortable dnfing a book.

[Becca Freeman]

I wasn't when we first started the podcast and I think it was because I had this like steadfast dad mentality of like, I spent my money on this and I'm gonna get my money's worth. But now, to be honest, I'm getting many books sent to me for free or getting access to them digitally. And so even if I have bought a book, I'm like, well, there's plenty of other books I have that I can read that I will enjoy. And so I've loosened it a lot. And then also because I do talk about my reading on my newsletter, on the podcast, I'm like, I wanna have things to talk about that I love. So there's no point in slogging My way through a book that I hate. Yeah, I think I've loosened a little bit and just overall want to be discovering and spending time with books I love, not like plowing through something that's mediocre. And I also think that another thing that's changed that for me is kind of just a owning of my own taste. I think previously I maybe felt, oh, this book is very popular or talked about. I need to. If I don't like it, there's something wrong with me. I need to, like, read it till the end to figure out maybe I will like it or, you know, oh, this book feels very, like, smart and important. And I think owning my own taste and being like, I like what I like, I don't feel as much pressure there that I'm like, oh, wow, this book is really popular. This one's not for me.

[Olivia Mentor]

Do you ever go back to a book once you put it aside?

[Becca Freeman]

Once in a while. Actually, the book that I read this week, I started to screen as a potential book club pick. And I was really enjoying it. But I decided it was not our book club pick and I put it aside and then I ended up going back to it on the train up to the lake and I finished it in two days. I loved it. And it was the Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett. And I was screening it and you had said that you read somewhere or heard somewhere that the author wanted to cram as many traumatic things into a book but still make it funny. And I got to this part where there's a grandfather molesting a young girl. And I was like, this is not our book club pick. We, like, this has every trigger in it.

[Olivia Mentor]

I forgot about that part.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Like, I was like, this has every single trigger in it. This is not our book club pick. And so I put it aside.

[Olivia Mentor]

I do feel the need to step in and say that should not be the thing you take away if you're considering whether or not to read this book.

[Becca Freeman]

No, but it was like, literally, I get it, like a pile up of triggers. And I was like, no, this, we, we aren't doing this for book club.

[Olivia Mentor]

There's a lot of triggers, for sure.

[Becca Freeman]

And then I put it aside, not sure if I would go back to it, but I was enjoying it and I, I picked it back up on the train and I, I loved it.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm glad you loved it. I didn't know where, where you would net out on it.

[Becca Freeman]

We'll talk about it more in the books. But yeah, that's one Example, I would say it's an exception, not the rule. I would say I sometimes let myself DNF something and tell myself that I might go back to it, but rarely do I actually go back to it. Talk to me about your dnfing world.

[Olivia Mentor]

This is the first year where I am dnfing more frequently because I have acquired so many books.

[Becca Freeman]

Yes.

[Olivia Mentor]

Like, it's actually reaching sort of a crisis point.

[Becca Freeman]

How many books would you say you're dnfing a month?

[Olivia Mentor]

I would say maybe one.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, that's it. I would have expected much more. I still have stuck in my mind. Your absolute psychopath habit of bringing, like, five books to bed and reading a page, a page, a page, a page, a page, a page.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's. Yeah, well, it's never just a page. It's usually like a chapter. But I do understand why that would make your skin crawl.

[Becca Freeman]

I would imagine that that would result in a lot of DNFs that, you know, like, one would come out the victor.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

And four would get DNF'd.

[Olivia Mentor]

I think I do DNF more now because I have a little bit of, like. I'm just always, like, literally looking over my book at the hundreds of other books. I mean, probably in my home right now, between books I have purchased and books that have been sent to me, I probably have close to a hundred books I haven't read.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, absolutely. I think actually a problem point switching to Kindle this year because I was like, I can't have more books come into my home. I felt really haunted by the pile, and it becomes the leading Tower of Pisa. And then it becomes two piles and it becomes three piles. And I feel like. I feel a lot looser on it that they're on my Kindle. And I'm like, yeah, there's probably a few, like, over a hundred books that I haven't gotten to. But in a digital space where I don't have to see the piles in my home stresses me out less.

[Olivia Mentor]

I understand that. I don't think I can say no to any books coming in because of that. I think I read more widely than I have. I'm reading more than I ever have before. And a lot of times I will put something down because I get a book that I'm really excited about and I'm like, I'll go back to that. Like, a good example is Home Seeking. I don't know if you've read that. It was Home Seeking by Carissa Chen. It was a Good Morning America book. Club pick. It's quite long, maybe 400 pages or so. And this book took her like, I think, 10 or 20 years to write. It was this epic story and I was enjoying it. But I put it. I put it aside at like 75% done with the book. And I was like, I'll get back to you. Of course, I never did. And I don't know if I could just put it pick up where I left off. And so part of me is like, kind of wants to go back to my. More rigid. Like, I will finish this book unless I abhor it, you know, unless it is paining me to read it, because I think I just. It feels better somehow.

[Becca Freeman]

Like, well, getting to 75% and then abandoning is.

[Olivia Mentor]

I've done that so much this year, though.

[Becca Freeman]

That's interesting.

[Olivia Mentor]

So much.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't feel any guilt If I read 50 pages and bounce because that's, you know, what, an hour of your time, you're theoretically saving yourself eight more hours of time of reading the whole book that you didn't enjoy. Yeah, but 75% is a deep DNF.

[Olivia Mentor]

I know. And I keep doing it. And I need to find a better system, I think. So I was reading. I mentioned this in the episode with Chelsea Beaker, but I was reading this book that was recommended by Ann Patrick called this Is Happiness by Niall Williams. It's not really my type of book. It's set in, I don't know what time period, but it's some sort of historical fiction in Ireland. And not my general thing, but I was just underlining sentences left and right. The writing was so exquisite and interesting. And I still think about it all the time, clearly. And I just put it aside. And I haven't gone back to it. Like, will I go back to it? And I just keep thinking about it. So maybe I'll try to just redirect towards more of a completist attitude, with exceptions for books that I just can't do. Like, I'm just like, if this was high school, if I would read the Spark Notes in a moment of desperation, then maybe I put it aside.

[Becca Freeman]

Have you thought about maybe weeding out your pile so that you don't feel as much pressure that there are so many books waiting for you?

[Olivia Mentor]

I have. We've been discussing doing a yard sale, so I was thinking about putting out a bunch of books. Like, people come over and they want book recommendations. I let people take books and whatever, but they're arranged in such a way right now that to get to the ones underneath would undo the whole thing. And apparently the bookshelves are being made this month. I don't know. I have such little hope that anything timing wise with that will happen the way I want it to. So I'm like, I'll do it then. That's my mindset. But what's your thing? Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

I feel like I'll start with my most serious thing. I have two articles for us to have a little article club about. I have become minorly obsessed with the topic of AI since we last discussed it on the podcast. It just feels to me like a car crash that I can see coming in the distance. And, you know, not even with regards to the environmental impacts which are valid and substantial, but just with regards to our brains.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I. I read these articles you sent and I felt really horrible after.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, I. I thought that these were very interesting perspectives that were not coming at it from a lens of straight negativity, per se, or that we're just coming at it from an interesting perspective.

[Olivia Mentor]

Definitely.

[Becca Freeman]

So the first article I brought, and we will link these in the show notes, and for this one, it's a New York Times one. We'll give you a gift link. So even if you don't have a New York Times subscription, you can read it. The first one is by Megan o', Rourke, and it was in the New York Times opinion section, and it's called I Teach Creative Writing. And this is what AI is doing to students. And because maybe you have not read these listener, I'll just give you, like, a quick summary of what the article is about. So it's written by a creative writing professor at Yale. What I thought was interesting about this was that she starts out with a general openness to using AI. She knows her students are using ChatGPT to write papers. She wants to understand how it works. And she's not like, this is a scourge on learning. She's like, this might just be the new norm. So let me, instead of trying to game it and, like, trick my students into putting a random code word into an essay so that I know they used chatgpt, like, let me. Let me get into this. And so she spends a couple of months getting into AI use personally. And from the outset, she's kind of having these, like, slightly uncanny interactions with it. The first part, a lot of it deals with the pandering nature of AI and it tells her that it's familiar with her work as an author. She's a poet, and it gushes about her, and it tells her that it Used it on a personal syllabus and has taught her work before. And then when she questions it, it's like, oh, you caught me. I've never taught. And what was so interesting to me about this article was at first the author surprises herself by really embracing AI for administrative tasks. And she, like, eventually goes on to call it a substantial partner in shouldering the mental load that I, like many mothers and women professors, carry. But then eventually she kind of 180s on it and she starts to have this uncomfortable feeling about, like, it interfering with her ability to think. And it kind of becomes a slippery slope from her using it to make a meal plan to using it to write a syllabus. And then at one point, she, like, feeds it some bullet points to write a very complicated email for her and then realizes after she sends it that it didn't really convey her feelings. And so her ultimate takeaway is that she realizes that the act of care or intention is what makes meaning possible. And so, yeah, I wanted to discuss this article. What were. What were your thoughts?

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, this article was actually kind of interesting to consume personally because I had the. Maybe it is AI, the feature where it just automatically reads it out loud with, like, a robot voice. And so that's how you consume it.

[Becca Freeman]

Strange.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. There. So I was listening to it, but it's this, like, you know, not real inhuman male voice reading this article to me, which is written by a woman, so. And it's first person. And it was just. It was very. It was deeply unsettling. The beginning of it when she's, like, going kind of full in on AI. I was like, oh, God. The part where she describes how she basically asked AI to make a decision of whether she should bring her kids on a work trip. I was like, what are we doing? What are we doing? And a lot of the arguments about how it takes some of the sort of mundane, you know, everyday tasks off her plates. She had focused on deeper work. I've been seeing this argument around quite a bit, and every time I see someone say a version of this, I just get very uncomfortable because I'm like, is AI in the room with us? Like, why do we need to make an argument for this thing? I'm sorry, we don't. Like it's here. It's going to keep being a thing. We need to be making an argument against it for all the reasons that this writer came to the conclusion at the end. And as I was reading it, I kept thinking about this instance in my own life earlier this week where I Had to send an email to someone that I was like puzzling through how to word. I couldn't figure out the right way to convey what I wanted to convey and I just couldn't quite figure it out. And it was something publishing related. And so I, Instead of using ChatGPT, because I don't use ChatGPT, I reached out to my editor or my agent. I said, hey, what's your guys feelings on this? Do you have any examples or do you have any suggestions for how I can do this? And I guess if I was using ChatGPT regularly I probably just would have fed everything into there and let it give me, let it give me the email. But I think there's just so much we lose when we're giving away all of these, these interactions to this machine instead of working through them ourselves. Like there is a social aspect of me having to go to my agent, editor and type that email. And you know, you have to be patient while you wait for the response. And the other thing is that, is this really anything other than just capitalism? Like we're just making instead of this is the thing. Instead of finding solutions to the incredible workload that especially women face and women who have children and then they have careers and they're balancing all of this. Like instead of finding solutions to that socially and putting in safety nets and making that balance more possible, we're like, well, let's just give all your, your easy tasks to ChatGPT. Like is that really the solution so then you can work harder? I, I don't know. I find, I find it disturbing and it does feel like a slow motion car crash because while we're sitting here thinking about all the benefits, everyone's ignoring everything we're losing.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, one point that the author makes in this piece is that when she was using ChatGPT for email correspondence, she felt less connected to the outcome because she didn't write the email in the first place. And let's be honest, there's dumb administrative tasks that everyone has on their list that it's not important whether you do them or somebody else does them, they just need to get done. But you know, when you're putting work on somebody else's plate, initiating a difficult conversation or something and you don't actually write the piece and then you, there's kind of an emotional remove from it, like kind of just making everything frictionless. Gosh, I'm like, what does that mean for human interaction?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, it's so upsetting. And to her point at the end of the piece when she's talking about the pleasure of working through something that resonated with me so much. Because even on my most painful, difficult day of writing, I know that that struggle makes the moment when it clicks and works. That's what makes it feel good. If someone was like, olivia, here's an option for you. I will present to you a situation where you're gonna wake up tomorrow, and the book will be fully formed in your mind, every word in its correct place. Here you go. I would not want it. I don't want it because it takes away the joy of the act of creating something, puzzling through something, and everything we learn. I mean, I probably every blurb request I wrote, like, I spent hours and hours, like, crafting the emails in my mind of, like, what their work meant to me and how my work might resonate with them if I hadn't gone through that process, like, I would have lost something, I think. Like, it would have. I would be missing out on. On some important thing.

[Becca Freeman]

I have to acknowledge that I have this increasing sense of being the outlier among people I know in real life. People who are my peers, people who are my friends, people who I'm talking to on a daily basis. Like, it really feels like everyone is using this. And again, let me acknowledge that our jobs are very different and are dependent on our creativity and on our personality in some ways with the podcast or emails or things like that. So, you know, it's not something that I would ever want to outsource. But, you know, I'm thinking about when I worked in a corporate job, there were tons of dumb things that I had to do that, like, I didn't have a real sense of pride over that. It wouldn't matter if I did it or somebody else did it. But a lot of what I hear is about not wanting to get left behind. And especially in the current corporate environment where in tech there's so many layoffs, like, people wanting to keep their skills sharp. And I thought it was interesting that this author likened AI to the early days of the Internet. She was talking about being in college and, you know, personal computers didn't really exist yet. And in one of her college courses, the teacher brought them to, like, a computer lab and showed them how to use the Internet and kind of what an unlock that was. And we have to acknowledge that we feel differently about this because I'm not in our industry. It's not like, you need to learn this or you'll get left behind. It's like a very different view on it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I mean, definitely if you were in creative field, like this whole conversation I think feels a lot different because AI and art is a different thing than AI and you know, writing contracts or something. And I know that, that Jake has definitely talked about how there is pressure within his own industry to be more familiar with AI and to use it in different ways. And I actually saw something the other day that was like, AI could replace first and second year lawyers very easily. And then someone had to reply with like, okay, but then how do you.

[Becca Freeman]

Get, how do you get third and fourth or fifth senior lawyers? Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. And I don't know, it all just. And I might have said this in the last time we talked about this, but it all just feels so similar to social media to me, where it's like, of course the benefits are immediate, it's happening, there's no pushing it away. But I mean, it's, it's going to, I think it's going to take a lot of more away from us than people want to deal with. And when I hear about like what's happening to kids in school, it just makes me sad, you know, that like they don't want to teach writing in college anymore. That's so depressing.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, so I was having a conversation the other night at dinner with a friend about AI and she was saying something similar about needing to know how to use it and then also kind of justifying that she wanted to use it for like administrative tasks, but to free up time. And one thing that I was thinking about is like, okay, how are you going to use that time? You know, because I think that's one of the big arguments of I don't need to do this, so then I'll have more time. And I think there is this optimistic answer of I'm going to use this to spend more time with my family. I'm going to use this to make time to go outside. I'm going to use this to make time to be creative. But the reality is, is that you're getting back little snatches of time here and there throughout the day. I don't think the way most people are using it is that like it's cutting my workday from eight hours to four hours. So now I have all this extra time. The reality is, from what I see is it's freeing up people to either do more work tasks or to consume more, to scroll to, whatever. And it's like, is this just turning us into like the only thing that we're doing as humans are? Consuming.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, consuming and Making money for other people, that's terrifying.

[Becca Freeman]

And that's so unfulfilling.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's such a good point. And a great example, I think, is I keep seeing, like I said, these arguments of, look, look at the things you gain when you give these sort of more mundane, mindless tasks to AI. And you know, no company is like, take one day off of work now. You know, we have AI, so now you have to work four days a week. No. If anything, companies are now think, well, we can either replace you entirely with AI so we don't have to pay you a living wage at all, or it's just like, oh, we'll use that extra day to work more. So it's almost like I feel like the narrative is tricking us in a way. It kind of reminds me a lot of beauty standards and products and the way they're marketed to women. It's like it's tricking us into thinking this is giving us something, when actually it's just making money for other people.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, well, this is a perfect segue into the second article, which was kind of mind blowing for me. It's an article by Ted Goya on Substack called the Force Feeding of AI on an Unwilling Public. And Ted Goya is a music critic by trade. He writes this great substack newsletter called the Honest Broker. And we talked about him earlier this year because he had a newsletter called the State of Culture, which I found really fascinating. And so in this newsletter, he gives the example of being on his computer one day and discovering that copilot, which is Microsoft's AI, is being bundled into his Microsoft Outlook subscription. He didn't get an option to opt in, but now he's getting charged an extra $3 a month for it. And I've noticed this too. Like those Google search results where I'm like, I don't want the AI result. It's wrong half the time. Like, where is this coming from? I don't want this. Or on Instagram when you search something. Now it uses meta AI. And the other day I was searching, I searched watercolor because I was looking for watercolor examples, and it gives me the definition of watercolor. I was like, this is certainly not what I'm looking for. Or like, I've noticed QuickBooks, who I use for my accounting software, like, they've added AI and upped their fees. Oh, my God. Do you want to know the most infuriating example for me? I'm in a battle with this bot on Facebook. Facebook introduced AI for groups for Facebook groups. And so we have the bat on paper Facebook group. And it keeps re enabling itself, and then it starts conversations in the group. And I've disabled it three different times. It's so hard to disable. Every time I have to Google it, It's like so deep in settings and then it just like, turns itself back on. And I'm like, no, I don't want this bot to start conversations in our Facebook group.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. And it, like, curates, like, the topics.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

That have come up in the Facebook group. It's just weird. It's just weird. The first time I saw it, I thought it was a person posting.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, me too.

[Olivia Mentor]

And I was like, what is this?

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so anyway, the article goes on to say that based on research, most people won't pay for AI. So only 8%. There's a survey that he links will pay for AI. And he goes on to compare it to other innovations like electricity, a phone, tv, the Internet. Like, people wanted those things. People wanted to pay for those things. And he talks about, and this is the part I never thought about before, that how by bundling AI into products, businesses can hide their losses on their income statement, whereas if they charge standalone, the profits are more likely, the losses would be so much easier to measure. So it allows them to pretend that it's a moneymaker. And I have to quote this part because I thought this was just such a brilliant metaphor. He says, it's like a restaurant selling granite rocks for dessert. Nobody will buy them or eat them, so the product fails miserably. But if a popular restaurant adds a dollar to the meal price and gives every customer a rock with their bill, well, they can say that, one, every customer gets rocks for dessert. Two, every customer pays for it. Three, the business is more profitable because of tasty granite rocks. And I'm like, wow, I had never thought. I've noticed this happening with different tech subscriptions. I have adding AI like Canva did it, and their prices went way up. And it's like, I would not pay for any of this. And the.

[Olivia Mentor]

No.

[Becca Freeman]

The conclusion of the article is basically an argument for legislation that requires consumers to opt into AI, which I agree with. But I thought this was fascinating about the business use case because I've been reading so much about just how much money Meta is burning. Quarter over quarter. Just pummeling money into AI.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's upsetting. It's all upsetting.

[Becca Freeman]

It's upsetting. But I hadn't thought about the business financial logistics of it because it's like, even if I were a regular AI user, it's like you would pay for one platform. I don't need Microsoft's AI and Meta's AI and QuickBooks AI and Canva. Like, I don't need all of these tools.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

Like, I would only pay for one if I were willing to pay for it, which I'm not.

[Olivia Mentor]

And I think on like, like a less like literal sense, I think what all of this AI is doing is benefiting Meta. You know, if you had told me like five years ago, there is going to be a thing that makes people more addicted to their phones, more likely to turn towards a screen, a bot, someone in their phone, and less likely to turn towards a human than social media, I would be like, I don't know what that could be, but, and this is touched on in the first article you mentioned, like, people are using ChatGPT like their therapist, like their friend, like a partner, a lover, like they're having these affairs with them. And what is going to be left if every social. We've gone from social media, which is a virtual interaction, but with another human being, to AI, which is a virtual interaction with not even another human being. So I'm like, we're missing out on the world, like on life. And so it benefits Meta if people are like, well, I'm not going to see a real therapist. I'm just going to use chap, GPT and oh, by the way, there's Facebook, there's Instagram, I can just go on there too. It's just, it's like, yeah, I don't know what's happening exactly, but it's all feels bad.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm very curious for the conversation around this in the Facebook or the Geneva group. I remember last time this came up on the podcast, there was a very lively discussion around it and I, I do acknowledge that we are probably very far to one side of the spectrum on our feelings on AI. So I'm very curious if other people go and read these articles, kind of what their feelings are and on AI more generally.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. And to be clear, I don't begrudge any, you know, for. I use the example of like a working mother. Like, I don't begrudge any person, any woman who is using ChatGPT to make their workload more manageable and easier. What I begrudge are the systems that are in place that make that the solution instead of actually creating change that is impactful and sustainable and allows people to truly, deeply have a more healthy and balanced life.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

So no judgment on my part. Whatsoever to anyone using ChatGPT, unless you are writing books, in which case I judge you. A lot of judgment mightily. A lot of judgment and anger.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, take us to our next topic.

[Olivia Mentor]

So I kind of mentioned this a little bit, but I think my next topic, there's sort of a little bit of overlap. And what I wanted to talk about is whether or not you have seen the face. Shapewear from skims.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, I've seen it. I've seen headlines about it. I do not understand what it is. Can you explain it to me?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. So essentially, imagine like a Spanx or, you know, that kind of thing, except it is almost like a ball of clava y. So it holds in your chin, it holds in your neck, it tightens everything. This thing is marketed as having collagen woven into it, which is the most utter bullshit thing I have ever heard in my life, because collagen supplements haven't even really been proven scientifically to make a difference when it comes to skin or hair. But that's neither here nor there. Collagen consumed. I mean, so, like, putting something on your face that has collagen woven into the threads is not really going to do anything.

[Becca Freeman]

I have another question. Is it meant to be worn overnight so then your face retains the shape, or is it only useful while you have it on, in which case you.

[Olivia Mentor]

Look like a. I'm assuming it's for overnight.

[Becca Freeman]

So it's more like a waist trainer where it's like, if you wear this, your chin will then look like this when you're not wearing it too, theoretically.

[Olivia Mentor]

Right. It will snatch everything. It will make. It's kind of like the concept of a waist trainer, I think so. The description says this must have faced wrap boasts are signature sculpting fabric and features collagen yarns. Collagen yarns. Never have two words made me angrier for ultra soft jaw support. And so I guess it has been said that this would be great if, for example, you got a facelift or a necklift or all the things that are happening more often. I don't know why I am surprised at any product that the Kardashians are selling these days. But for some reason it disturbed me so much and it made me think on a larger scale about the legacy of the Kardashians and the ways they have changed beauty and what that will be. Because I think no matter what sort of pushback I have seen to the Kardashians, they're just chugging along, you know, they're just chugging along I'm watching.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm watching the show.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. Changing beauty standards in these.

[Becca Freeman]

Really?

[Olivia Mentor]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't even say subtle ways. And of course, I think they're all brilliant business people. I've. I've in. When I was a beauty editor, I interviewed a lot of them, and they were nice and smart and. And interesting. And I. I don't think that's not the case. And I, again, don't. Don't shame any woman who's making money. But I do think that, like, are we gonna step back at a certain point and be like, this is. Why weren't we more upset about face shapewear? Come on. This is. It's. It's disturbing to me. I keep saying the word disturbing, but it's. It's upsetting. And I don't know if you had thoughts or feelings about, like, in 50 years, what are we going to be saying about how the Kardashians changed beauty?

[Becca Freeman]

I think we will be talking about it, but here's the thing, is that I think that they are profiting from a system. I think if it was not them, it would be somebody else. And that's why I don't have a huge. I'm not like, they're the problem. They're certainly profiting from it. Good for them. But it's like this system of beauty standards, the system of patriarchy that says that your face needs to be a certain way so that your marriage material, whatever it is, desirable, worthy, whatever that. It's like. It's almost like, what am I thinking of? I'm like, the snake that grows back its head. But I'm like, I don't think that's right. But, you know, it's just like, if it wasn't them, it would be somebody else. Like, it's a whack, a mole problem. It's not just like, oh, my gosh, we need to deplatform the Kardashians, then everything would be better. Because I don't think that's true whatsoever.

[Olivia Mentor]

No, and I agree. I think it is a system that they have sort of.

[Becca Freeman]

But I don't think they're necessarily created it. I think they're very savvy at benefiting from it. But it's patriarchy and capitalism.

[Olivia Mentor]

And I think my question and struggle is always like, at what point do we throw up our hands and say, like, this is the system. Okay. Or at what point do we say, like, this is actually too far? And to me, this face thing is too far. But it also makes perfect Sense. And if you look at the trajectory of their brands and the plastic surgery and the lying about the plastic surgery and you know, saying this is just how we look and then being like, oh, actually now it's trendy to admit it. So, so now we're going to admit it. And in fact we're not only going to admit it now and benefit from our transparency, but also we're going to market the products that you should buy once you get the plastic surgery. Like it's, I don't know, at one point are you like, this is the system so there's no pushback to. Okay, actually this is a more insidious example. And I'm not saying this because I have an answer, but more just, I think it's an interesting discussion.

[Becca Freeman]

Part of it is that, you know, it's on consumers to have skepticism. Kim's not holding a gun to anyone's head telling them to buy this. And so I saw this launch and I was like, this is so dumb. This is so silly. And then I, and I was like, nobody's gonna buy this. This is like ridiculous. But what I found fascinating, and I'm clearly underestimating their cultural impact, is that I saw in a newsletter that a shopkeeper in the West Village had texted Emily from Feed Me that she saw two people in the West Village wearing them in the same day.

[Olivia Mentor]

No, out in public. Are you kidding?

[Becca Freeman]

One person was wearing regular walking around clothes, was like out and about running errands, and another was. Looked like they were maybe coming or going to a workout class. And I was like wild.

[Olivia Mentor]

And you know, anyone who thinks that this is not connected to the way the Internet reacted to Kris Jenner getting a whole new face and I just googled it. It apparently cost, it seems between a hundred thousand and two hundred thousand dollars to get the facelift that she did. And everyone was like, wow, she looks amazing. She looks great. And then of course, most of us cannot afford the six figure facelift, but, oh, maybe we can afford this freakish thing we put over our head or if we can get a cheaper facelift, then maybe this will get us closer to that. It's just, it all feels very connected and I just part of me just really great to this idea that like they're just doing what they do and it's, you know, there are a million different horrible versions of the beauty industry. I just, I'm like, how many more things are we going to feel bad about? If I saw this in person, I have no idea how I would react. It's scary looking.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I think I'd be judgmental of the person wearing it, frankly.

[Olivia Mentor]

It is silly. Like, it's ridiculous if you look at it right. If I look at this, I'm like, I would judge anyone who I saw wearing this.

[Becca Freeman]

Somebody just had a surgery. You know, they're in, like, post op recovery.

[Olivia Mentor]

And so what is really actually kind of interesting is that even if people start wearing this more, like in New York City or in these, you know, more sort of beauty centric areas, maybe then you think, oh, everyone's getting facelifts, I guess. You know, like, you make that connection and then it just feeds the system even more. But what I was going to say is that if I saw this, I would think, this is ridiculous. I can't believe this. But then in the back of my head, what I'm also thinking is, like, oh, should I? Like, I would never wear this. But, like, obviously then you think about your face differently automatically. And so I don't know. Enough is enough, Kim, is what I have to say with this. This. This was just, like, too much for me. It was too much for me. And I think she's getting a lot of pushback, but frankly, I think there should be more. Because it's fucking unhinged is what I have to say.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, let's take a quick ad break. This one has gotten heavy. I have a game for us when we come back, so we're gonna lighten the mood and we're gonna play a game, and we're gonna talk about the summer I turn pretty.

[Olivia Mentor]

So for the record, don't give up on us. My third subject is very light. This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. It's always so bittersweet when summer starts to wind down. But I am also, as we know, getting very ready to cocoon inside my house for the chillier months. For Jake and I, fall and winter is all about focusing on indoor projects and home renovation. That means we don't have to be outside. So we've been putting off fully furnishing and decorating our bedroom, for example, since we moved in. And I think it might finally be time to make that happen and get some new side tables, maybe a new rug. I don't know. We'll see. But I definitely know that I will be checking out Wayfair when there is an item that's tough to find for the space. Sometimes I can be very picky about patterns and colors and dimensions. And I love knowing that I can filter through the thousands and thousands of options on Wayfair and find just the right thing.

[Becca Freeman]

Plus, Wayfair has free and easy delivery, even on the big stuff. No more huge delivery fees for furniture. Get big stuff like sofas, dining tables, beds, desks and more. Shipped free. You can find all your must haves from furniture and decor to appliances and cookware all in one convenient place.

[Olivia Mentor]

Get organized, refreshed, and back to routine. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, I have a game. Not only do I have a game, I have a game that history has told me I'm not particularly good at. So we'll see how this goes. Have you seen. I've seen people doing this on social media or I think somebody did it on a late night show. This game where two people say a word at the same time and you have to get to the same word. Do you know what I'm talking about at all?

[Olivia Mentor]

No.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. So usually there would be a third party who was counting. I'm going to be that person, which I think puts me in a disadvantage, but it's fine. So I count down from three and we both say a word. So I say three, two, one. And let's say you say shoes and I say socks. Then we do it again and we have to come up with the word that's the common denominator or the unifying thing between two. So maybe then I say three, two, one, and we both say feet. We're trying to get to the same word.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

If on the other hand we go 3, 2, 1, and I say ankle and you say athlete, then we have to find the common denominator between those two new words.

[Olivia Mentor]

I see.

[Becca Freeman]

So we played this in Maine after the lobster roll off. We found it so fun. Some pairs of people were very good at it. Some pairs of people were so bad at it. But it was very funny.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. So it's gonna move pretty quick.

[Olivia Mentor]

So any word, any word?

[Becca Freeman]

Any word, any word. Okay, so like not a phrase, but it could be like two things. Like, it could be like ice cream.

[Olivia Mentor]

Proper noun.

[Becca Freeman]

Sure.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. Right.

[Olivia Mentor]

Should we count down?

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, yeah. Three, two, one. Big bird.

[Olivia Mentor]

Mallard. Wow. What? I'm actually really freaked out.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, ready? Three, two, one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Duck feathers.

[Becca Freeman]

No, you can't wait for me.

[Olivia Mentor]

Sorry. I always said at the same time.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. Three, two, one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Bird feathers.

[Becca Freeman]

Is this. Is there just a delay? You can't say the same word. Twice.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, I did say the same word. Yeah. I thought we were just redoing that one.

[Becca Freeman]

No, but are you saying it at the same time and it's just a delay on zoom or.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm saying it at the same time.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. I'm not waiting to be like, I'm saying mine, and then you're saying yours, and I'm like, you can't do that.

[Olivia Mentor]

No, no, no.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, you repeated. Let's start over and see if we could actually do this.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, but I can't believe that we were so closely. That's actually really strange.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. Okay, we'll go again. Okay. We're starting with a new word.

[Becca Freeman]

New word. Totally new.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Three, two, one. Outer space.

[Olivia Mentor]

Bubble bath.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, God. Three, two, one. Air.

[Olivia Mentor]

Water. Oh, okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Three, two, one. Element.

[Olivia Mentor]

Hydrogen. Oh.

[Becca Freeman]

Three, two, one. Periodic table.

[Olivia Mentor]

I don't know. I was thinking, you're going so fast.

[Becca Freeman]

That'S how you're supposed to. So you're not, like, thinking about thinking about it? Okay. Should we try one last time to see if we can.

[Olivia Mentor]

One last time? One last time. Let me think of a good word. Okay. I'm still stuck on the mallard and big bird of it all. I don't know.

[Becca Freeman]

It's really wild.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm actually alarmed.

[Becca Freeman]

Do you think our brains have melded?

[Olivia Mentor]

Maybe. In a weird way, bubble bath and outer space sort of feel related to me. I don't know.

[Becca Freeman]

Those feel very far apart to me.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, it's weightlessness.

[Becca Freeman]

Sure.

[Olivia Mentor]

Let me think of a word. Let me think of a word. Okay. Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Three, two, one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Book only. Fans. Oh, okay. Do you say book?

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Three.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Two, one. Margo's got money troubles. What? What did you say?

[Olivia Mentor]

I said smut.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I see that. I see that.

[Olivia Mentor]

If we both said, margot's got money troubles, this would.

[Becca Freeman]

I thought it was obvious. I thought we were gonna do it. Okay, so now we have smut and Margot's got money troubles.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yours was the natural connection.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, let's try. Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

Smut and Margo. So many troubles. Let me.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, ready? You're not supposed to think this long.

[Olivia Mentor]

I. I can't. I can't think of anything. But.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, we're gonna do it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Three, because.

[Becca Freeman]

Two, one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Sexy book. Sorry. I'm so sorry.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, ready? Three, two, one. Romance.

[Olivia Mentor]

I don't know. I don't know. You're going too fast. You're going too fast.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, this has been an unsuccessful experiment, but we did have that big bird, mallard moment. But this would be very duck huh? No, but he's. They're in the same family. It's better than if we said big bird and elephant.

[Olivia Mentor]

Right? Right.

[Becca Freeman]

Although that would be snuffle Ephagus.

[Olivia Mentor]

Because I thought your second word was duck.

[Becca Freeman]

That was my second word.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. So I was thinking, like, has big bird been a duck this whole time? And I just was not aware, but.

[Becca Freeman]

I was like, the common denominator seems like a bird and a mountain. I was like, okay, a duck. Anyway, fun thing to bring to your friend group offline.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, it's very fun. I don't. I think I'm very good at it because I. My brain is working a little slower, but it was really fun.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, tell us your fun thing that you brought.

[Olivia Mentor]

My final thing is labuboos.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, didn't see that coming.

[Olivia Mentor]

So the other day, this is the best moment of my week. I walked into the bathroom, and Jake was brushing his teeth or something and listening to a podcast, and he just paused it. And he goes, I'm learning about labubus. And I was like, oh, you're finally here. Like, you're with the rest of the world. And he's like, you know about these? And I'm like, yeah, I'm a human on earth. I've. I've heard about them. But to be honest, I don't really know that much about them. For example, Jake said there are lefoufuu, which are the fake lafoofus.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Which I didn't even know. So couple things. One, are you seeing these everywhere? Yeah, in New York City. Oh. And two, like, would you ever get one? And three, is this the most weird fashion trend that has existed in a while, would you say? Okay, sorry, I just hit you with three questions.

[Becca Freeman]

No, it's fine. Before I answer your questions, I do have to tell you that there's this very funny clip from the Colbert show where Stephen Colbert is trying to guess what a labubu is, and his first question was, is this a slur? Can I say this?

[Olivia Mentor]

I. You know, it's fair. It's confusing. I keep expecting it to go away, and it just keeps being popular.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, Am I seeing this everywhere in New York?

[Olivia Mentor]

No.

[Becca Freeman]

But I am seeing it sometimes. I did have a moment when I moderated Annabelle Monahan's book event in June, and they put me at the signing table with her, which was fine, but it was a little awkward because everyone was there to see her. And so I was kind of just the bridge troll that you had to pass to get to her. And some people knew who I was and were very nice or, you know, had kind things to say about the event. But, like, others clearly had no idea who I was and just wanted to talk to Annabelle. And there was this one girl who had a labubu. And so, you know, I was trying to, like, break the ice with people if they didn't have anything to say to me. And I was like, oh, is that a labubu? And Annabelle was so impressed with how. Because this was, like, very early Labubu, and I feel like she was very impressed with my knowledge of youth culture.

[Olivia Mentor]

Does she know what a labubu is?

[Becca Freeman]

She saw one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. I just wonder if she had reference for it before because, like, I don't think so. I. I don't want to put words in my life. Would not know what a lububu is.

[Becca Freeman]

I think the majority of people in my life would.

[Olivia Mentor]

So you've got a group. Maybe that's the city of it all, though.

[Becca Freeman]

What were the second two questions? Would I ever get one?

[Olivia Mentor]

Would you ever get one? And this. The third one was, do you think this is, like, the most niche, weird fashion trend that's come out in a while?

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, number two. No, I would not buy one for myself, but if somebody got one for me, I could see myself being delighted by it. I wouldn't put it on my bag, but I would put it on my desk or on my bookshelf as kind of like a weird little talisman. I could be into it.

[Olivia Mentor]

I feel like you need a certain type of purse to rock the.

[Becca Freeman]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't want it on my purse. Also, it would depend on what color it was. Oh, you know, because some of them are. They all have, like, scary gremlin faces. But, you know, some of them are like a cute mint green or pink, and then some of the brown. I wouldn't want to display my brown labubu, probably if it was like. Or like, just a neutral colored labubu.

[Olivia Mentor]

Who needs it?

[Becca Freeman]

I want, like, a cotton candy colored labubu. I don't know if they're bright ones. Maybe there are.

[Olivia Mentor]

Anyway, how much are they? How much do they run?

[Becca Freeman]

Couldn't tell you.

[Olivia Mentor]

Real. Real labu. Boo.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, you have to figure out if it's, like, firsthand or resale.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm on Pop Mart, which seems like.

[Becca Freeman]

That'S where they sell firsthand.

[Olivia Mentor]

They. They seem expensive.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, so it's 15 directly from Popmart, but then thousands of dollars for rare. Thousands, yeah. For like, rare ones on Resale. They, you know, you're so into ebay you can get into Labubu stalking.

[Olivia Mentor]

I feel like this. I'm gonna make a mental note to self time capsule Olivia in 10 years. Come back to this episode and just think what a cursed timeline you were living in. We have AI taking over the world and ruining creativity Face, shapewear. What else have we covered? Labubus, what is happening? I feel like this is the most specific time we've ever, ever existed in. But what a time capsule this is.

[Becca Freeman]

And then your third question was, is this the weirdest trend? Why is this happening?

[Olivia Mentor]

And I also, are we okay?

[Becca Freeman]

Great question. I happened to read this newsletter yesterday that touched on this topic and I thought it was fun. Fascinating. It's by Kyla Scanlon, who's kind of like this Gen Z financial economic content creator who. Very astute, good takes. So anyway, she wrote this article called how AI, Healthcare and Labubu Became the American Economy. And it's a very long read, it's very worthwhile. But in it she talks about how kind of the economy, the housing market, everything is so fucked up that like Le Booboo represents something cheap that people can participate in as an economic trend. And I was like, wow, wow.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

That doesn't strike me as wrong.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's a great take and probably very accurate.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. And like, it's like the stock market. It's like you can't participate in the stock market, but you can participate in Labubu. Okay, same question back to you. Would you ever get a Labubu?

[Olivia Mentor]

Gut instinct is no, but maybe yes.

[Becca Freeman]

I could see you having a little boo Boo. Not on your back.

[Olivia Mentor]

I could do it. I love a cool little trend. I really do.

[Becca Freeman]

You love a haunted trinket. There's something about you.

[Olivia Mentor]

I love a haunted trinket.

[Becca Freeman]

And what is more haunted come to.

[Olivia Mentor]

Mind when you say that? Just. Just out of curiosity.

[Becca Freeman]

Mostly like weird paintings, which I guess aren't really trinkets, but yeah, true.

[Olivia Mentor]

I do have a Watching Over Me. It's a three foot tall painting of a woman with very wide eyes and tiny shoes.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't actually know if you own any of these, but I do really associate you with creepy Victorian baby dolls.

[Olivia Mentor]

I. I feel this is unfair because never do. I live in a Victorian house. Yes. Never once have you seen me with a creepy Victorian doll.

[Becca Freeman]

But I could.

[Olivia Mentor]

Have you ever. Come on, zoom. I'm cradling a porcelain doll in my arms.

[Becca Freeman]

No, you would never do that. This is your workspace. That's in Your, like, your creepy doll room. Your creepy doll room. All those rooms that you haven't decorated, just stuffed to the gills with creepy Victorian dolls.

[Olivia Mentor]

This is slander. I'm standing up for myself. I've never owned a creepy Victorian doll.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, but it's a real slippery slope from your current interests and aesthetic to creepy Victorian baby dolls.

[Olivia Mentor]

My aesthetic. I'm wearing a linen button down.

[Becca Freeman]

And.

[Olivia Mentor]

And. And what are those? Barreled leg jeans?

[Becca Freeman]

No, I mean the aesthetic of like, you're like, I like weird old vintage antique stuff. Like, you keep going back. You keep pulling back the layers. At some point you're like, hey, I found this Victorian baby doll on Etsy. Her name is Elaine, and like, she lives in our bedroom now.

[Olivia Mentor]

No, that will. That will never be me. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of who I am.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, I can't wait till you re. Listen to this podC 10 years and to see if you own a creepy Victorian baby doll.

[Olivia Mentor]

I would bet my life that I will not.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, for the listeners, if one person hosting this podcast was more likely to own a Victoria, a creepy Victorian baby doll, who is it?

[Olivia Mentor]

That's unfair. That is unfair. I have a Victorian house, so there could be one in here, but I would not bring it in. I would not shelter it. I would not bring it home. Make it close.

[Becca Freeman]

You're telling me if you found one under the floorboards of your writing cottage, that would be original? No, you wouldn't.

[Olivia Mentor]

I. Well, you would be like, it's.

[Becca Freeman]

It's cottage. It's on a shelf.

[Olivia Mentor]

No, I would not display it. There's no, not a chance in hell I would display a Victorian baby doll.

[Becca Freeman]

Agree to disagree.

[Olivia Mentor]

This is so unfair. What if I made one into a labubu and I put a little chain on it and I put it on the side of my purse and. New trend, little heavier.

[Becca Freeman]

That would involve you owning a creepy Victorian baby doll. And I would be right.

[Olivia Mentor]

This is never going to happen. I like paintings, not dolls. Well.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, we'll see. Ten years.

[Olivia Mentor]

We'll see. We'll report back.

[Becca Freeman]

Should we go on to the last topic, or do you have any. Anything more to talk about? About Labubus?

[Olivia Mentor]

No, I think I'm done with the Laboos, but thank you for indulging me.

[Becca Freeman]

My last topic, which now I'm worried will not be very fulfilling because it sounds like you haven't watched. It was the current season of the summer I turned pretty.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, I've seen the discourse, but I don't understand it, because I'm not.

[Becca Freeman]

But you watched?

[Olivia Mentor]

I only watched the first season.

[Becca Freeman]

I was gonna say, I was like, I know. You watched a season.

[Olivia Mentor]

At least a season. Yes. And you liked it? I did.

[Becca Freeman]

What's happening you?

[Olivia Mentor]

I don't know. It was one of those shows where I binged it in like a day. And it was entertaining, but I just didn't have any emotional, real connection to it. Although I do remember a very sad scene with I think a Phoebe Bridger song that has stuck with me.

[Becca Freeman]

The soundtrack on that show, they must just have a blank check for music. Yeah, it's true. The amount of huge songs in one episode, like multiple Taylor Swift songs, a chapel roan song, like just big songs in every episode.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, explain to me what's happening. Okay, so explain to me the discourse.

[Becca Freeman]

This is the third and final season. So five episodes are out right now. Google the first thing when I try to google how many episodes comes up with the full query of how many episodes in the summer I turned pretty. Season three, there are 11 episodes. So we're like halfway. Ish. A little less than halfway through. Okay, so I thought the first season was fantastic. I was pretty underwhelmed by the second season. And then, you know, the first season she's with Conrad, the second season she's with Jeremiah. And now the third season it's like, who's she gonna end up with? So it's a big Internet discourse. It is obviously based on a book series. So people who read the book series. Yeah, people, we gotta, we gotta talk more about that. So people who read the book series know how the book series end. But now there's a ton of speculation of will it follow the book series ending. Will it have a different ending? But yeah. So the third season I'm liking much more than the second season. Maybe not quite as much as the first season. I think at this point we're now very well aware how problematic Belly is as a character.

[Olivia Mentor]

Is that her name in the book? Because what is that about?

[Becca Freeman]

It's Isabella nickname. I don't have a problem with it. She dated Conrad. Then she like flip flopped to his brother. Now it seems like she might flip flop back. Everyone on the Internet's rooting. Most people are team Conrad for her to get back with the brother. And it's like, how does this happen? You're engaged to his brother right now. How does this happen in a way where we still root for you? Belly is a question I have. The plot line about them getting married is quite ridiculous. She just turned 21 and I think Jeremiah's 22. And they've. Oh, sorry, I'm gonna go into some spoilers. He cheated on her one time when they broke up, and then her brother got in an accident and they, like, reconciled, and he proposed to her, and she was like, yes. And so now they're getting married, and everyone in their life thinks this is a terrible idea, but they won't be dissuaded. It's a melodrama for sure. But then this most recent episode was told from Conrad's point of view, who's obviously, like, still so in love with her, even though he's with his brother. I find the show.

[Olivia Mentor]

Do you like it? I'm not getting a good sense.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, I do. And I, I mean, it's such a good teen drama. It's such a good teen drama. And the longing is there and the love story is there. And I personally, I mean, I cry every time the plotline about their mother dying comes up. I mean, my, my mother died when I was a teenager. Like, I just find it so emotionally gripping.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I, I, I do remember that being really impactful.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm scared for what will happen on the Internet if they changed the ending. Like, what if she chooses herself? Which, as a human, you're like, that's probably the right decision. Stop being a scourge on this family and, like, date somebody else. You're 21.

[Olivia Mentor]

People would, would be mad if she chose herself.

[Becca Freeman]

I think the Internet would implode.

[Olivia Mentor]

Wow. Well, as an outsider to this, what I can say is that every bit of press that I have seen, the three of them do, they all look so deeply done. Like, they look over it in every possible way, but so it kind of adds to the, like, maybe something bad is coming. I don't know.

[Becca Freeman]

I want to say it was all three of their first roles. Like, I think Chris Briney came out of drama school, so, you know, maybe he'd worked, but not, like, at this scale, lol. I'm positive this is Lola Tung's first role. And I don't know about Jeremiah. I think he's the worst actor of the bunch. So I'm guessing it's his first role, but maybe he's just.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, we'll see. You'll have to keep me posted because I probably won't watch, but I do want to know.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm really in. I went from, I watched the first and second episode maybe a week late. Then I watched the third and fourth episode last weekend, and now I'm like, on the day it comes out, I need to watch.

[Olivia Mentor]

So it's doing one episode a week.

[Becca Freeman]

Yep. So it ends in September.

[Olivia Mentor]

I've seen who knows?

[Becca Freeman]

I follow Jenny Han, who's the author of the books and the showrunner of the series on Instagram and her reshares of people. This is such a cultural moment. Like on the scale of Labubu she was reposting yesterday. It was like girls taking over a sports bar to watch the summer I turned pretty. Like these watch parties. Like, the way that it seems like teen girls, college age girls are into this show is unlike anything I've ever seen.

[Olivia Mentor]

I love that. Would you say that the the audience is like, firmly team Conrad or team Jeremiah, or is it an even split or.

[Becca Freeman]

I would say much more of the audience is team Conrad. I would say there are outliers that are Team Jeremiah, but I would say it's like a 80, 20 split maybe.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, wow.

[Becca Freeman]

And also there's been a lot of drama because apparently the actor who plays Jeremiah is ultra Christian conservative.

[Olivia Mentor]

Is that why he's married?

[Becca Freeman]

He's married. But then people are also breaking down, like, who he follows on Instagram, that there's like all of these, like, problematic conservative commentators. Like, there's a lot of speculation that he is, like, pro maga, so.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

There's like a lot of speculation about him personally, which I think has stirred up a lot of drama.

[Olivia Mentor]

That explains a lot because I was like, why is this kid married? Like, why? And. And. Well, that makes perfect sense.

[Becca Freeman]

Yep. I'm excited. I love a cultural moment.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, me too. I'm already out of it though, so I don't think I can join.

[Becca Freeman]

I think you have plenty of time to catch up. You just spend a weekend binging season two, you get caught up on season three. By next week, you can be in this.

[Olivia Mentor]

All right, I'll keep that in mind. I'll keep it in mind. It's gonna be hard to make time for it with my hoarding of Victorian dolls.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, that's a long term. That's a 10 year strategy. You could really watch one aside and prioritize the summer I turn pretty. In the short term, the dolls will be there for you.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm picturing me on the couch, on the other couch. Like three Victorian dolls. They're all holding signs that say Team Conrad or Team Jeremiah and they're like tattered lace gowns.

[Becca Freeman]

Yep.

[Olivia Mentor]

Maybe I'll just lean into it like, this isn't my truth, but I almost feel like, you know what?

[Becca Freeman]

Give the people what they want. I do.

[Olivia Mentor]

I do Want to get weirder? I do want to get weirder, actually. Okay, so this could be a way to do it.

[Becca Freeman]

Sure would be weird. Okay, let's get out of this. Let's take one more ad break and then let's get into some n matter. This episode is sponsored by Caraway. Did you know that the average American spends over $3,000 a year on dining out? I think I'm an above average American. Frankly. I'm so guilty of being lazy at the end of the day and going out or ordering in instead of cooking. But I have been so excited to cook with my new Caraway home set. I switched over from a standard non stick cookware set and I was really skeptical about how Caraway managed to have non stick but also non toxic cookware. But man have they done it. I even tested my lobster roll with their frying pan which had honey in it, which could have been like a real sticky disaster and it washed right off.

[Olivia Mentor]

As I said, I have been using and loving my Caraway cookware set for more than five years now and I have had zero problems with every single piece of cookware in the set. Another thing that might be important to you is that caraway ceramic cookware is free from toxic materials including pfas, pfoa, ptfe, lead, cadmium and other harmful chemicals. I've also been thinking about getting one of the Caraway cutting boards which are constructed entirely of FFC certified Birchwood and exactly zero plastics.

[Becca Freeman]

If you've been eyeing the Internet famous 12 piece cookware set, now is the perfect time to buy. You can shop caraway risk free, enjoy fast free shipping, easy returns and a 30 day trial. Plus, if you visit Caraway Home BOP, you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for our listeners, so visit caraway home.com BOP or use code BOP at checkout. Caraway Non Toxic Cookware Made Modern. Ooh, Olivia, I see that we both have movie obsessions.

[Olivia Mentor]

We do. Tell me about yours.

[Becca Freeman]

I got to see an early screening of Freakier Friday this week. It was so fun. I also have to tell you that I was hangry when we got to the theater and so we waited in a long line to get snacks because I needed to eat something. So we were kind of late getting into the theater and so we ended up. It was full. We ended up in the very front row. Worst seats in the house. So I think the fact that I loved the movie as much as I did despite having the worst seats really says something. Oh my God. We were Laughing so hard, I went with my friend Allie. We couldn't stop talking about afterwards how much we loved the movie. It was like exactly what I wanted out of a Freaky Friday sequel. It was just like silly and fun. All the cast was back, it had some of the musical numbers. Oh my God, it was so good. Also, I mean, I don't think that she will be nominated because I don't think the Academy will take this that seriously. But like give Jamie Lee Curtis an Oscar. In this one she switches bodies with this like posh British 15 year old who's a fashion designer. Oh my gosh, it was so funny. Jamie Lee Curtis was wearing the most ridiculous things throughout the movie. It was so funny.

[Olivia Mentor]

I've been seeing so much press about this, but I haven't really seen any reviews. Probably because it's not out yet. Or maybe it comes out today. Just came out? Yeah. Oh, it comes out today. So it's. It's good to know. It was good this, it looks very fun.

[Becca Freeman]

It was delightful and it was like actually laugh out loud funny. Really? Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, maybe I'll have to watch the old one and then the new one.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I haven't watched the old one in decades, but the new one was great.

[Olivia Mentor]

Good.

[Becca Freeman]

Tell me about yours because I've been wanting to see this too. It's on my list and I haven't made it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, I watched this movie called Sorry Baby, which is just so, so beautiful and sweet and like painful at times. But anyway, it's about this woman who when she is in an FMA program, she has this bad thing happen to her. And so the movie is kind of told through these different parts of her life of going through the bad thing and then after the bad thing, how it affects her relationship with herself and her work and her friends. And it's just, it's very understated, very simple but beautiful. And she lives in this old house in. It's somewhere in the northeast, somewhere in New England. And like she always has books everywhere and these little table lamps and it's just a really. Despite the subject matter being really tough and definitely read the trigger warnings. It's just a really sweet, beautiful, cozy movie that I loved. And yeah, it was just, it was lovely.

[Becca Freeman]

I really want to see this. I went to the movies, I don't know, probably a month ago now and the previews before it, I was like, I would watch every single one of these movies and Sorry Baby was one of the previews.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's a movie that's like not really about anything in particular. Like there's no real like linear plot but it's still just so compelling and really funny at times actually and really sad and really sweet. And yeah, I really liked it. Well, let's talk more about the book that you mentioned. I have not read anything or finished anything this week so all you so.

[Becca Freeman]

I mentioned that I read the Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett and I will tell you that I DNF'd her previous book Unlikely Animals because it was a little too weird for me. It was narrated by, it was kind of multi POV and one of the POVs was the dead body in the town graveyard and I was like a little too weird. This one I think is more of a crowd pleaser. It's weird, but it's less weird. So it's about this man who is kind of this like down on his luck divorced alcoholic who inherits these two kids who are his estranged brother's grandchildren who are 9 and 11 and they end up going on this cross country road trip to reconnect with this woman who was his high school one that got away. And this book truly, as Olivia said, has every bad thing that could happen happens in this book. And yet it is so warm and so funny. Oh my gosh, it was such a delight and I feel like it balanced being real and being funny, but I, I don't think it really veered into corny which it could have. And if you're looking for a non traditional point of view, there is also a cat that can predict death who has a minor point of view in the book which was very funny. Oh my gosh I loved this. I found it delightful.

[Olivia Mentor]

Pancakes the cat. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

But if you have any strong triggers it's probably in this book. So look em up.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, do you wanna tell people about our book club pick for this month?

[Becca Freeman]

I'm so excited to be discussing the Night in the Moth by Rachel Gillig on the last Wednesday of the month. This is a romantasy that is unlike any other romantasy I've read. It's part one of a duology and it's a short one. It's 400 pages which for a romantasy book I feel like is very restrained. And so this is about a female prophetess whose fellow prophetesses start going missing and she goes on this quest to find out what's happening to her sisters with the help of this heretical knight who doesn't really believe in her power to see the future or the God system or anything. And there's a romance between them. It is not as spicy as Fourth Wing or Acotar. It's very moody and atmospheric. I feel like this is the perfect book to transition us into fall. And as I said, it's so different. I'm so excited to hear what everyone thinks and especially Olivia.

[Olivia Mentor]

I am looking forward to talking about it. And if you want to talk to us about any of the stuff we have talked about today, share your labubus or what have you. You can or Victorian dolls. We don't discriminate here. You can join us in the Facebook group @batonpaper podcast or on Instagram @batonpaper podcast we also have the Geneva Group which is under batonpaper Podcast. I am on Instagram and substack liviamentor and you can Pre order my second novel Little One right now. You can find all the links at oliviamenter.com little-one or you can just google it in the usual places and I will be very grateful.

[Becca Freeman]

And it's in the show notes. I am on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter is beccafreeman substack. Com and we will be back next week with a very exciting guest.

[Olivia Mentor]

Bye.