Be Ready When the Luck Happens (Ina Garten’s Memoir) Book Club

Summary

Bad On Paper Podcast – Detailed Summary: “Be Ready When the Luck Happens (Ina Garten’s Memoir) Book Club”

Release Date: November 27, 2024
Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter
Book Discussed: Be Ready When the Luck Happens by Ina Garten

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Introduction to the Book Club

In this episode, Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter inaugurate their November book club discussion, selecting Ina Garten’s memoir, Be Ready When the Luck Happens. This session marks their final book club for 2024, and both hosts express enthusiasm and surprise regarding the memoir's content.

Personal Highs and Lows

Before delving into the book, Becca and Olivia share their personal highs and lows, setting a relatable tone for the discussion.

• Olivia’s Highs and Lows ([00:37] - [06:04]):
  Olivia describes the relief and excitement brought by rain after a period of forest fires and burn bans in the Hudson Valley. She also shares her joy in finally using her writing cottage during the rain, highlighting the serene ambiance it provides. On the downside, she discusses the struggle with shorter daylight hours, leading to feelings of pressure and decreased productivity. Additionally, the busy holiday season and the burden of social obligations weigh on her emotional well-being.

• Becca’s Highs and Lows ([02:22] - [06:04]):
  Becca recounts a heartwarming craft day hosted by her friend Jenna, where they painted birdhouses and created a Christmas village. She finds this activity soul-satisfying and anticipates future craft gatherings. Conversely, Becca shares her frustration with early darkness affecting her work schedule and personal errands, coupled with the anxiety of fitting everything in before nightfall.

Overview of Ina Garten's Memoir

Olivia provides a succinct overview of Ina Garten’s memoir, emphasizing her journey from purchasing a gourmet food shop in the Hamptons at age 30 to building the well-known Barefoot Contessa empire. The memoir details Garten’s challenging childhood, her optimistic approach to life and business, and her enduring marriage to Jeffrey Garten.

In-Depth Discussion on Ina Garten’s Life and Business

Ina’s Unconventional Path to Success ([12:12] - [16:42])

Becca and Olivia express surprise at discovering the depth of Ina Garten’s background. Becca admits to knowing Ina through her cookbooks and media presence but was unaware of many personal details revealed in the memoir. They marvel at how Ina didn’t experience immediate success but instead built her empire gradually, publishing her first cookbook at age 50 and launching her TV show in her early 50s.

Notable Quote:

• Olivia, [15:21]: “On the book, I loved it. First of all, I felt very comforted by it.”

Relationship Dynamics and Personal Choices ([23:08] - [35:50])

A listener voicemails highlight Ina Garten’s choice to remain child-free, sparking a discussion on how much the memoir delves into this decision. Becca and Olivia debate the balance between focusing on Ina’s business achievements versus her personal life choices. They delve into Ina’s and Jeffrey’s non-traditional marriage, characterized by long-distance periods and independent lives, which influenced their decision not to have children.

Notable Quote:

• Becca, [24:33]: “Do I think she owes us more? Like, this is about her rise to creating her food empire.”

Challenges and Financial Struggles ([42:10] - [48:52])

Listener Nora criticizes the memoir for not adequately addressing Ina Garten’s privilege and financial challenges. Becca and Olivia discuss these points, noting inconsistencies in the portrayal of Ina’s financial decisions and business expansions. They ponder whether the memoir glosses over genuine struggles or if certain aspects were intentionally omitted to maintain a positive narrative.

Notable Quote:

• Nora, [42:10]: “It felt so tone deaf to me.”

Ina Garten’s Cookbook Development and Success

Transition from Store Owner to Author and TV Host ([49:17] - [54:17])

The hosts explore Ina’s transition from running a gourmet food shop to becoming a successful cookbook author and TV personality. They highlight her process in developing recipes, resisting external criticisms (e.g., from Richard Avedon), and focusing on creating accessible, practical recipes for everyday cooks.

Notable Quote:

• Olivia, [50:24]: “I found that really inspiring.”

Empowerment Through Cooking ([51:38] - [54:53])

Becca shares her inspiration to revisit Ina’s cookbooks and aims to master roasting a chicken in the coming year. Olivia emphasizes the empowering message that formal culinary training isn’t necessary to cook Ina’s recipes successfully, reinforcing the memoir’s theme of achieving through passion and intuition.

Notable Quote:

• Olivia, [54:17]: “You don’t have to be an expert to do something.”

Listener Feedback and Criticism

Privilege and Financial Inconsistencies ([42:10] - [48:52])

Listener Nora from Zurich voices concerns about the memoir’s lack of reflection on privilege and perceived tone-deaf financial decisions. Becca and Olivia discuss these criticisms, acknowledging the memoir’s focus on positive narratives while recognizing gaps in addressing deeper personal and financial struggles.

Notable Quote:

• Becca, [48:52]: “I don’t really understand, which, I mean, I wouldn’t have been like, wow, how dare she take money from her husband.”

Operational Challenges and Business Decisions ([43:34] - [49:17])

Becca and Olivia dissect Ina’s business strategies, questioning the feasibility and consistency of financial decisions presented in the memoir. They debate whether Ina’s success was purely due to shrewd business acumen or if some challenges were glossed over to maintain an upbeat story.

Notable Quote:

• Olivia, [44:21]: “It's like, sometimes you're just recreating the exact same house slightly bigger on a different plot of land.”

Final Reflections on Ina Garten’s Memoir ([56:10] - [58:27])

Becca reflects on Ina Garten’s memoir, appreciating the business strategies and recipe development stories while noting the sanitized portrayal of personal and financial struggles. Olivia adds a nuanced view of Ina’s character, highlighting both her charm and complexities, comparing her to other prominent figures like Martha Stewart.

Notable Quote:

• Becca, [54:37]: “I love the sense of, like, you’re just going to have people over for dinner on a Tuesday and it’s going to be fine.”

Conclusion and Book Recommendations ([66:01] - End)

Becca and Olivia wrap up the episode by sharing their personal reading lists and upcoming book selections. They encourage listeners to submit their favorite books of the year and engage with the podcast community through various platforms.

Notable Quote:

• Becca, [72:56]: “We love hearing about your favorite books of the year.”

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Olivia, [00:33]: “This book really surprised me, actually, so I'm excited to discuss.”
• Becca, [02:22]: “It was like my perfect day.”
• Olivia, [15:21]: “On the book, I loved it. First of all, I felt very comforted by it.”
• Olivia, [54:17]: “You don’t have to be an expert to do something.”
• Becca, [54:37]: “I love the sense of, like, you’re just going to have people over for dinner on a Tuesday and it’s going to be fine.”
• Nora, [42:10]: “It felt so tone deaf to me.”
• Becca, [48:52]: “I don’t really understand, which, I mean, I wouldn’t have been like, wow, how dare she take money from her husband.”
• Becca, [72:56]: “We love hearing about your favorite books of the year.”

Insights and Themes

The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of Ina Garten’s memoir, emphasizing themes of late-blooming success, the significance of a supportive yet unconventional relationship, the balance between personal happiness and professional ambition, and the impact of privilege on one’s journey. The hosts critically evaluate the memoir’s strengths in portraying warmth and business acumen while acknowledging its shortcomings in addressing deeper personal and financial struggles.

Conclusion for Potential Listeners

For those who haven't listened to this episode, Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter offer an engaging and thought-provoking examination of Ina Garten’s memoir, blending personal anecdotes with critical analysis. Their discussion provides valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of building a successful brand later in life, the complexities of personal relationships, and the importance of authentic storytelling. Whether you're a fan of memoirs, business success stories, or simply love Ina Garten’s culinary legacy, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Badon Paper Podcast. I'm Becca Freeman.

[B]

And I'm Olivia Mentor.

[A]

And today is our November book club, which also happens to be our last book club of 2024. And this month we read Be Ready when the Luck Happens by Ina Garten.

[B]

This book really surprised me, actually, so I'm excited to discuss.

[A]

Oh, I'm excited to hear. Well, before we get into the book club, tell me about your high.

[B]

My high is sort of two things. One, to just be like an old man and be like, we really needed this rain. Like, we really did need this rain. It's raining today for the first time in, like months. It feels like we have had forest fires that have been going up and down the Hudson Valley for two weeks now. And there's been a burn ban and all this stuff. And so it was a little bit scary, actually. I got a notification that was like, fire, weather, be prepared. And I was like, if a fire comes, I don't know what I'm going to do. Run the other way. I'm not sure. So that's been good. And then kind of to segue into my other high when it was raining. I went into my writing cottage this morning, which has like a metal roof and it is the most amazing sound in there. Like, the acoustics with the rain on the roof is really, really just something to look forward to. So I got really excited about that.

[A]

It's like your own ambiance room.

[B]

It is, exactly. I'm really just thrilled you're the crackling fire.

[A]

If it ever happens, you're going to have the rain on the roof.

[B]

Yes. I look forward to the. Who knows one day when I will be in there? But we are making progress and Jake installed the new window this week, which I was like, when have you ever put a window into a wall that didn't have a window before? But I guess he just watched a lot of YouTube and it looks great and yeah, it's really close to being done.

[A]

Oh, that's so exciting.

[B]

I'm excited. I would say definitely, unless there's a huge problem with the stove installation by the end of the year.

[A]

Oh, so exciting.

[B]

Well, what's your high?

[A]

My high is that last weekend my friend Jenna hosted a Christmas house making craft day. She got all this stuff from Michael's and they were bird houses and we painted them and she got all kinds of Christmas decor and it was almost like making your own little Christmas village house and doing crafts with friends. Oh, my God, it was so soul filling. To me, it Was like my perfect day.

[B]

That sounds delightful. How did you decorate yours?

[A]

The house is pink and then all of the trim is green, and then the roof is teal and glittery. Yeah, it almost kind of matches my book cover, which was not my intention, but I guess it. It was top of mind.

[B]

Very nice. Do you have another craft day planned? And if so, what craft do you have on deck?

[A]

Well, there were murmurings of this becoming craft club and us doing crafts regularly. I don't know if another one's gonna happen in December just because of schedules, but we did talk about doing vision boards for the new year. We also talked about making resin coasters for Valentine's Day with, like, different kinds of candy in them.

[B]

That sounds fun. It sounds like you have like a whole schedule planned. Is this. How many people are in the craft club?

[A]

There were six people at this craft day, but I'm not sure. You know, if it becomes a thing, I could see it being like 10 people.

[B]

Well, what's your low?

[A]

Oh, my low. It's just that I am really struggling with it getting dark so early. And I feel so much pressure because I'm just. I'm not really going to get any work done once it gets dark, but then I also need to fit it, so I need to do all my work. I need to fit in a walk, I need to fit in any errands before it gets dark. I'm not juggling it so well. On Sunday, I was meeting a friend in the city and I ended up walking across the bridge. It was so nice out and I had the time and I was like, oh, wow, this just feels so good to be out on a long walk. And I realized that I just. I haven't been getting walks in. And so, yeah, I'm excited that the equinox is almost here and then the days will get longer again.

[B]

But when does that happen? I thought they were just dark until March.

[A]

Well, so December 21st is the vernal equinox. And so that means that the day and the night is equal and then after that, the day starts getting longer.

[B]

I did not know that because I just feel like. I think of February and I think of just being like in my house at 3pm and it's like just completely dark outside. So, no, I mean, it's just a.

[A]

Little bit day by day, but still.

[B]

It makes the difference. Yeah, I'm feeling this too, though. It sucks how early, like it gets dark. Like it's 3:30 almost here and it's already just feeling very gloomy.

[A]

I also can't remember if I was telling the story to you or on the podcast or off. But the other week I was like, I all of a sudden started to have this panic because I was like, what are you gonna do for dinner? Like, you haven't even thought about dinner. And I was just like, spinning out for some reason. And then I looked at a clock and I was like, it's 5:15. Calm down, you're fine.

[B]

I know I have to force myself to wait until 6 to start cooking, which there's no real reason that I can't start at like 5:30. But for some reason I'm like, okay, just should wait till 6. Like that's a normal time to eat.

[A]

But yeah, I feel like I start to panic when the sun goes down. I'm like, it's bedtime.

[B]

Time to sleep.

[A]

Yeah, time to sleep. 5pm what about you? What's your low?

[B]

My low is just that the holidays are so busy and also like trying to see friends, traveling, seeing family, getting gifts, decorating. All the things work. Like, all I really want to do is just like cocoon and read and write. That's all I want to do. I just want to work on what I'm working on, read, talk to no one, see no one, be in my cave. But unfortunately, I have to see lots of people and do lots of things. And I also don't want to get too antisocial as we enter the seasonal depression sort of season or time. So it's just trying to force myself to do the things and not feeling like it, but maybe that's also having to do with the darkness.

[A]

Mm. I was actually just thinking last night about how excited I am for the way that the holidays fall this year and how I'm so excited for the two weeks of the week of Christmas and the week of New Year's and to just read so many books and to just really cocoon. I'm hopefully turning in my book draft in like the second week of December, and so I gonna do some work on other things up until the week of Christmas. But I'm so excited for a couple weeks off. Off and to have that cozy reading time.

[B]

Are you gonna make a stack of books or are you just gonna kind of see where the time brings you? Just see what comes your way.

[A]

Well, I put together my backlist fall reading list and I will admit that I have kind of fallen off in November. I've been more mood reading just because after the election, I have been feeling out of sorts. And so I've kind of just been gravitating towards, you know, whatever feels good. So I definitely have some things on there that I want to read, but I was looking last night on my Kindle, and I have downloaded so many galley books that have been, like, sent to me in PR pitches. So I feel like I'm just gonna kind of go through my Kindle as opposed to physical books, because there's a lot of things in there that I'm excited about, but I. I forget that I have them because I don't have them in my sightline.

[B]

Can I just say I'm very tempted by the new Kindle, even though I don't need it. But it looks really nice and it has the color images.

[A]

Do you have a Kindle right now?

[B]

I don't need that. I do, but it's maybe four years old, five years old, and just the new one looks very satisfying. At this point, I really only pull out the Kindle for weird erotica, so the algorithm is confused. But the new one does look very nice.

[A]

No, I just got a new one maybe a year ago. I got a paper white, so I'm definitely not in the market for another new one for another eight years.

[B]

That's solid.

[A]

I feel like my last one lasted me 10 years, and I only ended up getting a new one because it still worked fine, but you had to rest it on something to charge it, and so it was annoying. But those things last.

[B]

Wait, so were you, like, an. An early adopter of the Kindle? Because this one, the one I got like four years ago, was my first one that I ever had.

[A]

I got my first one in 2012.

[B]

Yeah, that seems fairly. I feel like that was before they were, like, all the rage.

[A]

Hmm.

[B]

Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I should do a research project on this for myself. Well, anyway, let's take a quick ad break and then talk about this book. This episode is sponsored by Book of the Month. With the busyness of the holiday season, it can be so easy to forget to make time for stress relieving hobbies like Becca was just talking about, like, reading. And for me, I am just an overall less happy person when I am not reading. So I like to prioritize it when I'm traveling or hosting, even if it's just for a few minutes a day. Book of the Month makes remembering to read so easy because it ensures that a new book lands on your front porch each each month without fail.

[A]

So for my December book, I am so excited to read the most wonderful Crime of the Year by Ally Carter and this one is described as Knives out with a rom com twist. So it's about two mystery writers who get invited to the home of a mysterious fan and then that person disappears in the middle of I don't know if it's a party or what. And they're trying to figure out if they're in danger. They're trying to figure out if the other one did it, what happened, if it's a test. It sounds very fun. So it's a holiday book, but it definitely sounds like a great mix between romance and more action thriller. So I'm very excited. That feels like a new combo for me.

[B]

I also chose this one and I have been genre hopping a lot lately myself, but I just love a holiday themed book during the holiday season and I also really like the occasional sort of romantic mystery and I'm really excited to dive into this one. I plan on finding a fire, sitting by it and reading it cover to cover. I can't wait.

[A]

So if you're new to Book of the Month, we have an amazing deal for you. You can get your first book on book of the month for $5 with code TINSEL. That's a brand new hardcover book for just $5 with the code Tinsel. T I N S E L and one more very important thing, make sure to select BAT on paper in the survey after enrolling so the brand knows that we sent you.

[B]

Well, let's talk about this very popular memoir that I am seeing basically everywhere right now. Should I read the summary?

[A]

I would love that.

[B]

So this memoir follows the life and career of Ina garten who at 30 took over a gourmet food shop in the Hamptons despite zero prior experience and built it into the empire that we all know today. As we read about Ina's life, we learn about her difficult childhood, her open and positive mindset when it comes to both life and work, and her unique and beloved relationship and decades long marriage to husband Jeffrey Garten. Becca, I am curious what you knew about Ina Garten before this.

[A]

Well, I was definitely surprised because I thought I knew her well and there were a ton of things I didn't know. So I was surprised by how much I didn't know. I feel like she was just somebody that I was always aware of and I don't quite know how because I'd never been to the Hamptons, you know, while she had the food store there and she didn't publish her first cookbook until 1999 and her TV show didn't start until the early 2000s. So I'm like, how did I know about you? Like, she talked in the book about having a column in Martha Stewart's magazine. Or maybe she was just, like, on the morning shows or something, because I feel like she was like, a fixture of my childhood. Like, I knew who she was.

[B]

Yeah, it's similar to Martha Stewart. Like, I have never watched her show or read any of her books, but I don't think that Ina Garten is quite as famous as Martha Stewart. I would say it's like she's almost at the same level, but maybe not quite. But, yeah, I still knew who she was, too, but I can't say how. Yeah, I think she's just in this sort of cultural lexicon. Like, maybe she was on Oprah and I watched or something.

[A]

That's a good point.

[B]

Yeah, something like that.

[A]

So I do own two Ina Garten cookbooks, and I looked up last night in my Amazon purchase history to see if I could find out when I bought them. And so I bought them in 2011. So I have the How Easy Is that Cookbook and the Barefoot Contessa At Home Cookbook. And I think these are probably the two first cookbooks I ever owned. I couldn't tell you why I decided to buy them. It was when I was living in San Francisco, so maybe I thought I was gonna be hosting more dinners, having people over for dinners. I finished the book last night, and it really made me wanna go back to those cookbooks and to go through them and to see what I would want to make from them.

[B]

Do you remember any of the recipes? Like, do you remember cooking any of them, or do you think you just didn't, like, spend that much time in them maybe after you got them?

[A]

I think I didn't spend that much time in them after I got them. I think I felt overwhelmed by the level of cooking which, you know, I think she prides herself on it being really easy. But I was 24 at the time, so.

[B]

Also, who among us doesn't have at least two cookbooks that we have simply never touched or have just done one recipe from and then given up? I have an Otto Lengy cookbook, but I think there's one recipe in there that's to my level. And so I've just done that one, but it should go back.

[A]

I'm very curious to revisit it. I'm also really curious because I think Barefoot Contessa at Home came out in 2006. So I'm also very curious about the food trends or if the food feels current in it or not. So we'll see.

[B]

I did really like. And we'll get to this when we talk about her cookbooks in a bit, but I did really like the idea of a cookbook where you can find all the ingredients in your grocery store. So I have never owned her cookbooks, but now I kind of want to. But. Okay. Getting back to, like, your overall thoughts.

[A]

On the book, I loved it. First of all, I felt very comforted by it. I listened to the audiobook, and she just has a very comforting presence. I think that there were kind of two main things that I really liked about it. So the first thing I really liked was that she didn't have this, like, smash success out of the gate, like, young prodigy type thing. Like, she kind of bumbled around trying to figure out what she wanted to do, and she ended up buying the food store on a Lark at 30. And I found myself constantly doing the mental math of how old she was when she hit different milestones throughout the book. So her first cookbook came out in 1999, and she would have been 50. And, like, her TV show started after she turned 50. So I really liked the idea of her kind of finding her passion as an adult. I always really like stories about that. And then the second thing was that there was just, like, such a coziness about it to me, about hosting and hearing about the dinner parties that she was throwing. And it just made me really excited. I'm doing friendsgiving tomorrow night, so it couldn't have come at a more perfect time in my personal life, but it made me really excited about gathering people around my table.

[B]

Yes. I loved all of her descriptions of, like, just having friends over for dinner and, like, constantly being with friends. I thought it was really, really lovely and cozy. Very cozy.

[A]

I also was really, really fascinated by. So it was told in an interesting way because it's obviously told through hindsight, knowing that it all works out. Like, she's currently. I think she's 76 right now. So, you know, she's telling the story about these things that she did when she was in her 30s, knowing that she turned this into a huge empire. But I was also really shocked by how many kind of impulsive moves she made. And, like, there was not necessarily a very, like, linear or obvious path that she followed that it was like, yes, this was always going to work out this way. It was like, whoa, this could have gone wrong. It sucks. So many different times. And I was really surprised by her personality coming out that I guess I think of her as like, maybe much more docile and much safer than she came across in the book.

[B]

Yeah, that's interesting. I've been trying, as you've been talking, to think of, like, how I would describe some of her storytelling because. And a word that came to mind was childlike. That is not maybe the best word. But there is a sense in a lot of these stories of impulsiveness to the point of like, well, lalala, I just did this and then it worked out and then it was great.

[A]

But I got it.

[B]

I had some money and I threw the money at it and then we moved on and it was happy. And I am not saying that in a derogatory way, but it felt kind of like. I do not know. Do you know what I am saying? This sort of. She is in her own sort of world a little bit. And it's a great world, to be fair. Like, I loved it. I want to be in Paris in the apartment. Please invite me.

[A]

Did you listen to it or did you read it?

[B]

I read it.

[A]

So the thing about listening to it is she narrates it and you hear her say these things in her tone of voice. And it just. It really seemed to me like I was like, oh, you just have a very different and singular operating procedure.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I also think that so much of this was rewritten with hindsight in mind. You know, she tells you that she felt nervous and insecure all the time, but you don't get that coming through in the story. So there's almost like a cavalierness to her decisions where, you know, you can obviously be cavalier about it, knowing that it worked out. Where I almost was like, I wonder how this story would have been told when it was happening.

[B]

Yes. What you said is like, hits the nail on the head. She says, like, I felt anxious, but I couldn't.

[A]

That didn't come across.

[B]

I was like, oh, really? Because what I feel is like you just trusted the whole time that it was gonna work out, which I think to a certain extent is her personality and is part of like the charm of it. And I really loved. And obviously I think we can talk about the money of it all a little bit later. But maybe we start by talking about like. Like the beginning and the middle and so forth.

[A]

Well, wait, I don't feel like I got your high level review.

[B]

I liked it a lot. I read it in like 24 hours.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

I found it very cozy. I think I would have enjoyed listening to it maybe More, But I still really loved it. I am not a memoir person, but it's definitely like one of the memoirs I have enjoyed the most.

[A]

I really enjoyed listening to it. And I have difficulty listening to books, especially non memoirs. Like, I have to concentrate extra hard. I just don't think that my brain quite works that way and I end up tuning it out. But I was riveted by this. Like, I was so excited to have to run errands. And I've been running specifically a lot of errands for friendsgiving. So, you know, I brought this when I went to the grocery store yesterday. You know, as I've been like, running around doing different things, I've had it on. I was always excited to get back to it, which is not usually how I feel about an audiobook.

[B]

It was delightful. It really was. Like, the descriptions of food and of Paris. I wanted to go to Paris. And I think most of all, I really was inspired by her relationship. Like, I thought that was fascinating and really surprised me based on what I knew about her from social media and stuff. But I knew a little bit about her childhood, but not, I guess, to that detail. Did you know any of that that she got into at the beginning with, like, how distant and abusive I guess her parents were?

[A]

I definitely had heard some spoilers in the near term from other people who'd read the book or like, reviews about the book, et cetera. So I definitely knew that going in, but I don't think I was aware of that before. And I think she says that she hadn't really talked about it much in the book and that was one of her reservations about doing a memoir in the first place. I also have to imagine, and, you know, I think her parents are dead, so maybe that's not true. But I have to imagine that you, like, also sanitize it a little or put a little bit of a happier face on it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if this is what she's telling us, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, it seemed like she said once about her father hitting her, but, like, didn't. I don't know, like, I was just like, oh, how often was he physically abusive? You know, just to be clear, not that I'm doubting her, like, I'm saying that, like, I actually wonder if it was much worse than she was letting on.

[B]

Yes. And reading it, I think I also got the sense throughout the book in a few places, and that was one of them, that she was holding back. And I think that's totally her prerogative. But another Part that I was really shocked did not get more page space was the fact that her and Jeffrey chose not to have kids. Which I'm not saying that requires more of an explanation, but I think that people especially, especially now, women, are really looking for stories of other women who have chosen not to have kids and who have lived a very specific life that is not necessarily what traditionally women are expected to live. And I think she gave it like one sentence. It was literally like I didn't want to have the kind of childhood or I didn't want to have a kid to have the childhood that I had. And so we didn't. That was basically it. Did that surprise you at all?

[A]

Well, let's listen to a quick listener voicemail who had a very similar sentiment.

[C]

Hi, this is Larissa live in SF Bay Area, longtime listener, first time caller, wanted to talk a little bit about Ina Garten's memoir, I'm Obsessed. I loved it. I listened to it, which was a ton of fun and would highly recommend to listen as well. I wanted to call out that Ina is child free and has lived a wildly fulfilling life. I don't think that is portrayed enough. And ever since. Becca, you recommended reading. No one tells you this. I've really leaned into the child free community as of course I am one. And so I just, I wish she.

[B]

Spoke a little bit more about her.

[C]

Decision to not have children and over the years how that potentially impacted her or if she felt like she ever felt like it was a hard decision, I don't know, she kind of glosses.

[B]

Over it a little bit.

[C]

And as somebody in her late 30s who is deciding not to have children, I'm always curious to hear from people that are a little bit older in terms of how they have felt about their decision. So anyways, she doesn't really mention really spending a lot of time with children throughout her life. So I did find it interesting that she mentioned her and her brother discussing that in part due to their tough upbringing, they both decided to not have children. So yeah, anyways, just wanted to support us child free women, including both you, Becca and Olivia. Thank you so much for this awesome November book club and I look forward to hearing all about it. Thanks. Bye.

[A]

So on the one hand, I don't think she owes us more. Like this is about her rise to creating her food empire. So, you know, it's kind of tangential to the story. On the other hand, I don't know. Like, if I were describing my decision not to have kids, I don't know that it would feel super meaningful. Like, I just don't feel called to it. Like, how do you describe the absence of something? And at the same time, I'm also thinking about what she told us that, you know, when she was 30, she bought the Barefoot Contessa store. And, you know, her and Jeffrey were living separately for a lot of that time. He was living internationally. I'm like, you were working really hard hours and your husband didn't even live in the same country. Like, of course you didn't want to have kids. Like, that didn't make sense for you then. So. Yeah, I think one thing that was really surprising to me about this book was how un. Nurturing her desire to be this domestic goddess food person. Like, it was very much about entertaining other people. And she even talks in the book about how it chafed that Jeffrey expected her to be what the standards were for a wife at the time and doing the cooking and the cleaning and how that led to their separation. And it's so interesting to me. And I haven't watched the Martha Stewart documentary yet, but I do know some stuff about Martha Stewart. And it's like both of these women who are kind of the top of the domestic industry in the United States are very un. Maternal, very un. I don't know, like, it feels the opposite of a trad wife almost. Where it's like the trad wife is like, I'm taking care of my husband and my children. And it seems like both Ina and Martha are so not that whatsoever. Like, kind of the way we think about domesticity today or the way we think about these domestic arts.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great point. Also, they both strike me. I have watched the documentary, which is fascinating because I think both Ina and Martha, and this may be a comment on, like, women of that generation and people of that generation are very surface level, except that I think Ina is a bit more kind of happy. Go lucky and warm. And Martha is very cold and in her own way. And I think if there's anything about the book that I struggled to connect with, and this again might have been the fact that I was reading and not listening, was that there was this surface levelness to it. But then there were certain parts. Like at the end, I thought it was really moving when she said, people come up to me on the street and say, ina, I love you. And I remember when my father said, no one will ever love you. And I was like, wow, that's her story, I think, in a nutshell. And I would have loved more of it as Someone who is just like, give me all the feelings. But one thing I wanted to ask you about before I forget. When I was reading, I had no idea about the nature of her and Jeffrey's relationship. That it was long distance for so long that they basically had two completely independent lives and just saw each other once a month or whatever. They got separated at one point because I think her brand is so much like Ina and Jeffrey. She says herself in the book. Relationship shocked me to see that that wasn't the case, but at the beginning, I didn't know that. So when she's talking about how Jeffrey kind of parented her in the beginning of their relationship, I was highly disturbed. I was like, is this what the book is going to be like? Is this going to be the story of their relationship? That he was her parents? That's really upsetting to me in a lot of ways. But it was a completely different reading experience. So it was lots of twists and turns from my perspective. But did that surprise you? Did you know that about their relationship, like, the trajectory of it?

[A]

I didn't know about the part about him living in Japan. I feel like it's so central to the show that it's like I'm making something because Jeffrey's coming home for the weekend. So I think I thought, oh, I've.

[B]

Never seen the show, so maybe that's part of it too.

[A]

I thought that he was commuting into Manhattan, which I think at times he was. It sounds like he was at Columbia Business School and then later at Yale, but so I thought that he was just commuting into the city for the week, and they had, like, a city apartment. And then he was coming out to the Hamptons on the weekend. But I was certainly not aware of, like, him being in Japan or Hong Kong or like, having these international posts where it was like, oh, we're truly living separately. That I wasn't aware of.

[B]

And I think for like, a couple of their age and their generation, like, choosing not to have kids, having such a sort of unconventional relationship where you're not in the same place a lot of the time, that must have been not the norm. Like, I can't imagine that they knew many other couples doing that. And to her, it just seemed so organic to her life and her desires that it was kind of almost charming that she didn't really get into the fact that it wasn't normal, because for them it just worked.

[A]

I was really charmed by their early courtship. I thought that was really sweet about them falling in love and Kind of how she couldn't wait to visit him. And her dad was like, you can go twice for the whole school year. And she went two weekends in a row because she was so excited. But later I did get the sense that she would be a difficult partner to have. And so, you know, they had a very non traditional marriage. But I think it also made me appreciate Jeffrey in a different way because I think I thought that, you know, she was taking care of Jeffrey. She was the little wife where he was going off to his big important job and she was cooking brownies. And in this book, it really seems like she, you know, she's like making all of these real estate purchases which are a mixed bag of good. Like, are they a good idea? She buys this store that isn't even in the same state that they live. Like, and she has this need to like, prove things to herself, which I do understand. But I'm like, oh, you're a tricky person.

[B]

Yes. I really need you to watch the Martha Stewart documentary. Because I came away from both of these, I guess we can call them both memoirs or whatever with just being like, that's kind of a weird person. A great person in a lot of ways, but complicated and not what I expected at all. And I guess when you are presented with this very like, I'm making you dinner and I'm a woman that's cooking, there's all of the stereotypes that maybe I had just assumed because that's society.

[A]

Well, I also think that you need to have a certain level of. I don't know why the word that's coming to mind is gumption, which sounds like very Mary Tyler Moore, 1950s, but.

[B]

Like, no, that's fitting. I think.

[A]

I feel like you do need to have a certain level of gumption to build this into a multimillion dollar lifestyle brand. You know, Like, I think there's a big difference between just owning and operating the store that she had in the Hamptons versus turning this into a brand. Same with Martha Stewart.

[B]

Same.

[A]

So I do almost think it's like, oh, yeah, of course you're a particular person because this is really unusual to take what you did and build it into something so big. And like, you also must have had to go through so much bullshit. Like, I think I do agree that like, she glossed over a lot of the less ideal parts, but you know, she's like, I hate litigation. And it's like, yeah, I'm sure that, like, there were a lot of really ugly parts of a lot of this too, to build this into the empire that it was like, I feel like, you know, she says that until she hired a social media person, it was like just her and her assistant Barbara where it was like a two woman business, not like a multi pronged thing. And maybe it was that she was, you know, using licensing or you know, obviously through her cookbook. She had an in house publishing team at her publisher. But I was like, I don't know, like, I feel like there must have been more dirty stuff in terms of.

[B]

Like, I mean, it's a multi million dollar business, etc. Always. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think she did kind of gloss over that. But that's also like if you read the whole book, that is kind of her. It's just like that just seems how she's going about her day. I kind of get the impression that she does not let stuff bother her beyond like that day. She goes to sleep, she wakes up and she's like, it's a new start. Could not relate less personally, but it seems to be working out. So I should take some advice.

[A]

So I did not realize that she was not the original owner of the Barefoot Contessa and that she didn't coin that term for herself.

[B]

Me either. I didn't even know there was a store. Actually, I knew there was a store. She had a show. It was called this.

[A]

I bought a store and I think I might have conflated it with Tate's Cookies where it was like she also started Tate's Cookies, which is not true.

[B]

Well, which. Well, no, but she did. Did you read that part of the book?

[A]

She talks about the woman. I didn't know that, but I. Yeah, I think I knew there was a store, but I think I misunderstood what it was.

[B]

I had no clue. And that she owned it for so long. But I loved the descriptions of shop life.

[A]

Oh yeah. I thought it was really fun.

[B]

The thousand baguettes a day. Couldn't wrap my head around that personally, but I was like, great. The cinnamon in the brewed coffee. I can't stop thinking about that. The camaraderie of the team, all the girls working the baking pies late at night. It is the person in. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Meryl Streep's character in It's Complicated seems like her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if it's directly inspired.

[A]

By that, but anyway, it's a California version of her maybe.

[B]

Right. And it's just, ugh. It charmed me to my core.

[A]

Yeah. I really liked the shop life details and I also loved her talking about the strategy of it, too, which I thought was really interesting, how she approached it in terms of, you know, she was talking at one point about how they displayed the chickens on a platter and they didn't sell, and then they put them in red and white checked paper, and all of a sudden they were flying. Or, you know, that they specifically put the air vent system so that it vented onto the street so that people smelled the chocolate chip cookies. Like, there was a lot of interesting strategy in it, too, that I found really fascinating. Like the anecdote she tells about pricing her brownies where she was like, I should be selling these for $2.50 at a time when a brownie was 70 cents. And how she decided to do it anyway. I thought the business side of it was really fascinating.

[B]

It was. Yeah. And, oh, gosh, just the arranging of things and thinking about where things go. And I really also enjoyed. This was a brief part, but how she instructed her team to talk to customers. I loved that. It made so much sense to me. And I was like, oh, of course you were hyper successful when you started with this type of customer. Oh, and the returns, how if you didn't like something, they gave you your money back, but then also gave you a free thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

I was surprised to learn. And she never really looped back to this, but I was surprised to learn that she sold the store and she sold it to her employees. So theoretically it still exists. I didn't do any research to see if it does, but she's not associated with it.

[B]

That's a good question. It must. Or I think she would have had to say, you know, it's not in existence.

[A]

I don't know. I'm Googling it right now. Oh, the shop closed in 2004.

[B]

Oh, see? Did she write that in the book? Why wouldn't you include that?

[A]

Well, she didn't own it anymore.

[B]

I know, but I mean, wouldn't you say I sold it to my employees?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

And then, I mean, I guess maybe that's something that was just, like, off limits. I won't go there. Yeah, I'm not sure. But, I mean, she does strike me as a very practical person. Like, when she moved to the. I'm getting east and west confused. But when she moved to the second location and then closed the first, I.

[A]

Was surprised about that.

[B]

I couldn't do it. I was like, it would break my soul to leave the first place where people knew me. But she just seems very shrewd.

[A]

When she was talking about the traffic between the two of them, I think that would be enough to drive you crazy that, you know, it's taking you an hour to get four miles.

[B]

What did you think about? This is another thing. There was one sentence and I was like, give me more. Then she asked her friend Anna Pump, who owned, I think Fish and Loaves is what it was called, which was close to the new location she was opening. And Anna was like, I don't love this. And then she was like, well, I'm opening it. And then Anna didn't talk to her for, I guess, a year. Were you like, yeah, I'd be the same way. Or did you feel bad for Ina or where did you net out there?

[A]

I wondered if there was more to the story because the way that it was told was very much like she was about to become business partners with Anna. And then Anna told her that she was going out on her own. And Ina was so gracious about it. And then when Ina was like, I'm expanding. Anna was not gracious about it. And so I was like, I don't know. I would assume. And maybe Ana was a bratty person and this is just not how she operates. But, like, I would assume that if Ina extended you that kindness of like, you're going to operate a store close by and become her competition that, like, her opening a second store. I don't know. I was surprised by that.

[B]

Yeah, I think there was something else there that we may never. We'll probably never know.

[A]

Yeah, the dark side of specialty food stores in the Hamptons.

[B]

Oh, there's gotta be one. There's gotta be one.

[A]

Well, let's take another quick ad break and then let's get into Ina's cookbook years.

[B]

This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth, makers of the blanket that Becca and I cannot stop talking about. In case you missed our gift guide episode, their Cuddle blanket was one of Becca's top picks for a gift that anyone in your life is sure to love. And I also own one. I also love it. I can confirm it would be an excellent gift. And it is one of Cozy Earth's bestsellers for a reason.

[A]

Truly, I am a one woman PR machine for this blanket. I am texting my friends about it. I am hawking it on Instagram. Like, I love this blanket so much and I don't really care about faux fur. I've never owned anything faux fur. It's not like a big part of my design aesthetic. I feel really indifferent about it. But this blanket is first of all, so soft, but the weight of it. So I got on the scale with it the other day just to see how much it weighed. It turns out I'm very bad at ballparking weights of things because I said I thought it was five pounds and it's 13 pounds. But it is so soothing to the extent that the other week I was at a concert, I was having a great time, I was in public, I was with friends, I was having drinks. It was great. And this like, casual thought flitted through my brain of like, can't wait to go home to my blanket. I'm sorry, like what?

[B]

I understand that it's a real thing. I also think about it now when I'm like, oh, I get to watch that show under my blanket. Cozy Earth's whole goal is to help you create a sanctuary within your home, just like the one Becca and I are talking about, a refuge from the demands of the outside world. They understand the significance of finding comfort and tranquility in the midst of our hectic lives.

[A]

So wrap yourself in luxury this fall with Cozy Earth and go to cozyearth.com batonpaper to enjoy 40% off using the code BOP. That's 40% off with code BOP. And after placing your order, select Podcast in the survey and then select Bat on Paper in the dropdown menu so they know that we sent you this.

[B]

Episode is sponsored by this Is Small Business behind the Buy, which is the official companion podcast of Prime Video's new show called Buy it now, where entrepreneurs compete to win $20,000. So if you're someone who is interested in how ordinary people turn their big ideas into a business, or if you want to learn from real entrepreneurs and get actionable advice on how they succeeded, this is for you.

[A]

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[B]

It makes an otherwise overwhelming process seem incredibly doable, and it is all backed up by real life stories from real entrepreneurs like Felicia, who's featured in the first episode. In her episode, you learn how one of her scariest moments as a mom inspired her to create a product that is literally saving lives, follow this Is.

[A]

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[B]

So I say this with love towards Ina Garten. With love and adoration. I wouldn't say she's the most down to earth person I've ever read about. And that's kind of the point. Do you know what I mean? I don't mean that in a bad way at all. It's just she's in a different. We kind of touched on this in a different headspace.

[A]

Yeah, but I. I knew going in that she is this lady associated with living in the Hamptons and having this house. So I don't think I was surprised by that.

[B]

I guess I didn't know that I did, but I didn't. I don't know.

[A]

Let's take a listener voicemail who had some questions.

[D]

Hi, this is Nora calling from Zurich, Switzerland. I have quite a few thoughts about this week's book club pick Ina Garten's memoir. And I think I might be one of the few people who really disliked this book. I in fact, stopped listening to the audiobook about two thirds of the way through. And I think what really bothered me about it was the complete lack of reflecting on privilege that goes on throughout. So, for instance, there's this one scene where Ina describes that it was too cramped in their house for Jeffrey to work. And this was a house, I think, in West Hampton with two bedrooms and a dining room. And she then went on to buy land and completely rebuilt the same house, just a bit bigger. And it just felt so tone deaf to me. And it made me wonder to what extent should we expect the authors of memoirs to reflect on their privilege and to what extent is it just part of their story? Thanks.

[A]

Okay, so I think this Lister is getting to. And I cannot tell if she was trying to make herself seem more relatable, if maybe they had some money problems that she was trying to not talk about so directly. But there were so many times where she would say something like, I wanted to buy this house and then we couldn't afford it or something. Or, you know, when she talks about buying the apartment in Paris and she's like, it was way outside our budget or something. And it's like, what's your budget? Like, what are we talking about here? Because, like, sometimes you're just recreating the exact same house slightly bigger on a different plot of land after just renovating this house. And sometimes you're like, we couldn't afford it. And I'm like, what's your money situation?

[B]

See, this is the thing I was talking about where a lot of the times it was like I ran into an obstacle. And the answer to recreate the same house and build it down the road or to just make an offer to the property next to me that was completely above market value and they couldn't confuse, throw money at it.

[A]

I wish there was a consistency to it because I feel like it waffled. I guess I don't expect to reflect on her privilege, as this person says. Like it's kind of packaged into her whole thing. But if, then you're gonna kind of make it seem like you're having money problems. I don't know, like I don't want, I don't wanna be lied to. Like I don't want you to try to make yourself seem more everyman than you are. So I think it was the confusion of those two things side by side in the same years where it wasn't like, oh yeah, when we first started out we had these money problems. Like it seemed, seems to continue. Like she talks about buying her apartment in Paris and she's like talking about how it's a stretch for them to afford it and then she's gonna have to do all these renovations and then in the same chapter she buys a la cornue oven, which who knows which one she bought. But like they range from 15,000 to $100,000. And I get that that's what your job is. And so this is like a professional write off perhaps, but it's like which is it?

[B]

Yeah, to your point, like even when they're living in D.C. and she's like renovating that house and she's like $5,000 for furniture in the 70s. $5,000 is what? I don't even know. I want to look that up. Oh my God. Okay, we're going to guess that it's 1970, right? I think it might have been a little bit after, but $5,000 in 1970 is equivalent to $40,678 today. And that was when they were just in their life. And I think something you're saying that I agree with, there was this sense of a lot of times it was like my whole brand is when there is an obstacle, I find a way through it. And it's like the way through it is to be rich. So I'm thinking of the example of their Paris apartment and how the apartment above it flooded, which is like a devastating thing to experience when you've just spent, we're going to just assume like millions of dollars renovating this apartment. She was like, remember, when I see a roadblock, I see an opportunity. She's like, so I just said, you don't have to pay for the repairs. We'll just buy it from you. And then I had the thing I wanted. It's like, yeah. I mean, I too would find ways through it if I had millions of dollars. Ina. God bless you.

[A]

But I did also get the sense that perhaps she was very bad with money. Like at one point, do you remember in her D.C. days where she buys this house that they can't really afford and then has to immediately sell it. And then when she sells it, they got above what they paid for it. And Jeffrey's like out of town. And she's like, so then I spent the extra $5,000 and I bought myself a fur coat. And it's like, what?

[B]

Yes, yes. And like this was all proposed as like a real estate strategy. And I'm like, I think she was just like kind of messing around. And like, it's very clear that Jeffrey is wildly successful from the book. Like, he obviously has very high paying, successful jobs.

[A]

Well, not always because in their early days he was working in government, which doesn't pay well. I think in his later years once he went into investment banking, obviously.

[B]

Yes, that's true. That's a good point.

[A]

But at this point, when she's just buying a, a $5,000 fur coat, I don't think that they were like rolling in it.

[B]

$40,000 for furniture is not like. I mean, I don't know. I guess they were both working to the point of the. The mortgage anecdote where they wouldn't give it to them because her income didn't count, which I found horrifying. Shocking. I thought it was curious that she didn't more clearly state, like if there were any scenarios where the business was like there was one time she couldn't make payroll that she talked about. And was that the instance where Jeffrey was gonna quit and take his retirement money out? And I was like, at this point he had a job at Lehman Brothers.

[A]

Yeah. But also I'm like, what is your bi weekly payroll? You have a bunch of college students who are probably making around minimum wage.

[B]

Yes. And that's why I was kind of perplexed. Cause I was like, if he's has a big time job at this point, I mean, I can understand a scenario where she's like, we keep this totally separate. You're not going to pay for it. But then it was like he was willing to quit his job.

[A]

Yeah, that was weird.

[B]

It's not adding up here, Ina. I don't really understand, which, I mean, I wouldn't have been like, wow, how dare she take money from her husband? Like, of course not. But it was just confusing to me.

[A]

So I want to pivot a little bit. I want to talk about her cookbook era. I loved hearing about this whole process. Like, it very much was, like, how a book gets made. I loved hearing both the story of her first cookbook and being on set and figuring out the visuals for it, and then kind of how she was like, I've used all my recipes. Where do I go from here? I loved this part. Like, I feel like I really enjoyed the store, but I feel like hearing about the cookbook and the TV show might have been my favorite part.

[B]

I especially loved the anecdote about Richard Avedon. I think that was his name. He was a famous photographer or art director, photographer, I don't know, who basically looked at her cookbook and was like, this is terrible. You should do it all differently. And she was like, oh, God. And then she decided to not take his advice at all. And I really loved that lesson of, you have a gut instinct for what works and for what is effective and for what speaks to, like, what you're doing the best. And, like, there's going to be people who disagree, but you have to go with it. And I found that really inspiring.

[A]

I feel like this is one thing that, you know. So her first cookbook came out in 1999, so she would have been 50. And I think this is one thing that was really interesting about her doing this, having had a whole, you know, 30 years of life experience as an adult before this, in terms of her being like, I'm gonna do this my way. It did seem like she wanted to do a good job, but she was like, I decided I'm gonna be really difficult about X, Y, and Z. And I thought that was really interesting hearing this from her kind of coming in, even though she was new to the cookbook world, like, she had already established herself in other ways.

[B]

Yeah. And now she's done. How many cookbooks does she have?

[A]

I think, like, 10, when I was looking last night.

[B]

It's a lot. It's a lot.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm really curious to go back to the two that I have and to see what recipes I'm interested in. And then also now that I'm a better cook than when I bought them, just to see how I feel about the level of difficulty of the recipes. I have decided this book really cemented it for me. It was already going to be one of my goals, but I've decided that one of my goals for 2025 is going to be to learn how to roast a chicken.

[B]

Oh, are you gonna do the engagement chicken?

[A]

I don't know, but I just wanna learn how to roast a whole chicken. There's something about whenever I see anyone else do it, I don't think I've ever actually been to a dinner party where somebody's roasted a chicken. But like, if I see it on TV or I hear about it in a book, I'm so impressed. And so I feel like I just wanna learn how to do that.

[B]

I've done it once. There's a very famous. Forget her name. It's a buttermilk roasted Jamie Samin Nosrah. Yes, I did that one. But the thing with it is you have to practice. And who wants to weekend after weekend? Because God knows I'm not pulling out a whole chicken on a weeknight. It's not happening. So I would like to do something like that too, to have a really impressive cooking skill that I hone. But it seems so involved, the whole bird of it all.

[A]

So I feel like hosting mahjong for me is a low enough stakes dinner situation where there's like another activity and people would be thrilled if I fed them. So maybe it's the year of like learning how to roast a chicken and hosting mah jong.

[B]

I love that for you. The other thing, speaking of La Cornue ovens that I think people don't talk about enough is that every oven is different and that if you have a shitty oven, like, it's not going to roast, you know, all the way around. Kind of in the same way.

[A]

I've never had issues like that with my oven. I have a gas oven. I think it probably runs a little hot, but yeah, it circulates well.

[B]

This kind of reminds me. I'm sorry, I have to touch on this. The story that she said about catering and how the oven didn't work or something for the salmon, like, the heat wouldn't circulate. And then it was like. But then it worked out and it was cooked perfectly. I was like, I want to know about the time that you failed. Ina. Tell me the time that you failed miserably. I get the feeling that she either blocks those memories out entirely or like, she really does just like win all the time.

[A]

I'm inclined to say the former rather than the latter. I thought it was really interesting in some of her recipe development stories where, you know, she gives the example of the Boston cream pie that I can't remember how many years she said it Took her to make. Like, I thought she had a very interesting approach when she was approaching recipe development. So scientifically.

[B]

Yes. I've never really thought about how that works, so it was interesting to hear it all spelled out.

[A]

I was also really interested to hear how insecure she was about not having any formal cooking training and then realizing that it was actually a strength because the people who were cooking from her recipes didn't have any formal cooking training. And I thought that was really powerful in a myriad of ways. Like, you don't have to be an expert to do something.

[B]

Yes. I love that message. It definitely, like, I came away with the sense of, like, I could cook her recipes, only having read a couple of them that were in the book. You know, like, I was like, I can do this.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It made me want to cook more. Like, I also love the way she talks about cooking as a means to, like, gathering people and entertaining.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I really resonate with. Like, I. I obviously enjoy going out to a restaurant, but I think there is something really, like, special and intimate about having people to your house to cook. And. And honestly, I feel like it's oftentimes more enjoyable.

[B]

Yes, I agree. It did make me think. I love to cook and I cook most nights, but I really fear cooking for people because it feels like so much pressure. And I'm not a professional. I'm not as good as a lot of people. So I really appreciated the sense of, like, you're just going to have people over for dinner on a Tuesday and it's going to be fine. It's not a big deal. It'll be great. You can do it.

[A]

I think you just need to get over that by doing it a few times. Like, I said this in a newsletter recently, but a few months ago, my friend Jessica had us over for dinner and she made something really casual. It was like Trader Joe's pre marinated shawarma chicken. And then she made like a Greek salad kind of thing. And it was, you know, it was delicious, but it wasn't high effort. It wasn't, like, worthy of a magazine. And our other friend was like, I'm going to cry that somebody is making me dinner. Because she's a mom. She's usually the one who's making dinner and she's like, just the fact that anyone is making me dinner is making me have, like, an emotional response.

[B]

That's really sweet.

[A]

And I feel like, you know, for the most special, if I went over to Ina Garten's house, I would be expecting a lot but if I came over to anyone else's house, like, I would be expecting to not get food poisoning. But, like, that's the bar.

[B]

Well, was there anything else you wanted to touch on? I think we covered a lot.

[A]

I want to talk about her TV show. Her TV show I thought was so interesting that she hated it. Initially. I thought that was like a very interesting backstory.

[B]

It sounded like my living nightmare. Like, to have people in my house all day, to be using my toilets all day. Like, just no wake up in the morning people other than I wake up at eight and my hair and makeup is done professionally. I was like, that part I can get on board with completely.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But I thought it was so interesting. And I don't know, maybe it's just because of my age and when and where I became familiar to her, but I feel like that's. The show is so much her calling card that it's wild that that almost never happened.

[B]

Yeah. Have you seen Be My Guest, her new show where she interviews people?

[A]

No, I haven't. I was really curious. I don't know if this was her regular show or Be My Guest. I was really surprised by the. I don't know how many pages it was, but, like, the section about Taylor Swift did not seem like that.

[B]

Oh, my God. Okay. So I made most of this outline before I had read, like, the last 50 pages of the book. And last night I got to that part and in my head I was like, I gotta include this in the outline. Cause I was like, it literally feels like I was like, was Taylor Swift in the room when you wrote this? She was like, wait, I have to include this passage about Taylor Swift wasn't.

[A]

Just an anecdote about one recording with Taylor Swift. And it was like, then we went to her concert and then it was a funny story where she played beer pong. But I was like, huh, I wasn't expecting this. But I do think that's something really interesting where she talked about how she'd always been the interviewee and then wanting to talk to other people and getting to be the interviewer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just like the fact that once you're at that level. And it's the same way I feel about. I mean, he was always a host, but I feel like I really like David Letterman's Netflix show for my next guest because I feel like people are so much more forthcoming with him because of how established he is and how much people generally respect him. And I feel like it's the same with Ina, where it's like people respond to her in a different way than they would if we had them on the show to interview them. And we were just random people to them.

[B]

Yeah. And I think the act of like cooking. Cause I think they're often cooking something together. I haven't watched it myself, but kind of diffuses the tension of like a traditional interview.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It made me want to watch it.

[B]

Well, I think it's on HBO Max streaming.

[A]

I'll find out. All right, shall we take one more ad break and get into some ED matter here?

[B]

Yes. This episode is sponsored by Babbel. One of my goals for the new year is to plan at least a couple international trips if it makes sense for us. And I think one of the best ways to prepare for a trip and to remind yourself each and every week that there is something to look forward to on the horizon is to really immerse yourself in the language of wherever it is you're visiting. That way, when the trip arrives, you feel that much more confident about having a wonderful stress free time.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Well, what are you obsessed with?

[A]

I am obsessed with rewatching the Nanny on Peacock. I put it on randomly the other week. A friend was unexpectedly staying with me. She had come in for work and we were gonna have dinner and her hotel reservation ended up having an issue, so she slept over and we were watching Real Housewives on Peacock. And then after it ended, I just wanted something short, mindless to put on and I put on the Nanny and I was like, I bet there's no way this is gonna hold up. It is so funny. I'm now in season two. I am loving rewatching the Nanny.

[B]

This is with Fran Drescher, right?

[A]

Yeah. Have you ever watched it?

[B]

I haven't, but I know it's like famous, iconic, hilarious.

[A]

It was so core to my childhood. Also her outfits are so. They're so fun. And I think relative to other older shows, it's less problematic. There's definitely some sexism and a little bit of fatphobia once in a while, but on the whole I'm like, the humor still flies.

[B]

That's how I feel when I watch Boy Meets World. There's something about it that. The fact that it was funny then and it's funny now is just so comforting. And I love it. So I like this. I like this for you and I.

[A]

Like that it's just a mindless 20 minute episode.

[B]

Gotta love 22 minute episodes, man. Gotta just sitcom, laugh track.

[A]

Gotta love it. And I see that you also have a TV obsession.

[B]

I do. Slightly different tonally.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My obsession. I honestly think this is one of the top five shows I have ever watched in my life.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It's Cate Blanchett. I should have known. But it's disclaimer on Apple tv. And this is based on a book, actually. And the story is about a woman. She's a documentarian. She's like in her 50s. She has a grown child, married in London. She receives a book in the mail that is basically based on an incident in her life in her 30s and implies that she did, like horrible, horrible things. So I'll leave it there. It's a great premise. The show is, I think eight episodes. I watched six of them. And it's a very, very intense show. It's probably the most sexually graphic show I've ever seen. So it's like up there with Presumed Innocent. That one was the chemistry. But what is the show that we like? Industry, Industry, industry. It's up there with that. And it's just generally like a dark vibe. But so I watched the first six episodes and then I was like, okay, I kind of get it. It's a great show. But, like, I don't know if I'm gonna watch the last two. And so I read the Wikipedia summaries of the episodes and I was like, oh, my God, I did not see that coming. And so then I forced myself to finish it and I was like, this is a brilliant show. This is a brilliant, brilliant show. Tons of trigger warnings. Check them out.

[A]

But I think I need to watch this. I had heard so many people raving about how much they liked it, but I didn't realize that there was a publishing angle to it. And that really intrigues me.

[B]

Yes, it's definitely an intense show, but it's just. It's shot beautifully. Like, the lighting in it is beautiful. There is the most incredible London townhouse I've ever seen. There's a beautiful Italian beach. It's by the same director who did Gravity and Roma. So it's like Oscar winning or nominated at least. Director. And it's just. Wow, it's weird because Sacha Baron Cohen. No, yeah, that's his name. Borat, Whatever. Borat is the husband.

[A]

Oh, weird.

[B]

It's just, ugh, I wish I wrote the book. It's just. Anyway, watch it. Cate Blanchett is a treasure. A treasure.

[A]

Wow. Maybe I'll start it tonight. Maybe I'll be obsessed with it next year.

[B]

Enjoy. It's a slow burn, but it's worth sticking for the end.

[A]

I've been wanting to watch Rivals too. Have you watched Rivals yet?

[B]

Is that the tennis movie that's Challengers.

[A]

Yeah, it's Equestrian. It's based on this book by Jilly Cooper, who I guess was like a British, kind of like Nora Roberts, Danielle Steele type contemporary. And it's about all of these upper crust British people. Everyone is involved in the equestrian scene somehow, and everyone's just having affairs and backstabbing people. I think it's kind of soapy. So I feel like those two could go well together. That could be the thing to take the edge off if disclaimer gets too intense.

[B]

Oh, palate cleanser. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely needed that. Sounds great. I haven't heard of that, but I've.

[A]

Seen so many people raving about it. Set in the 80s, too.

[B]

What streaming platform is it on?

[A]

Great question. It's on Hulu.

[B]

Oh, great. I'll check that out. Well, what have you read?

[A]

Okay, so first I finished the Invisible Life of Addie Larue, which I was like 75% through last week. Olivia. I think this is not only. It's not only one of my top five books of the year. I think it is probably in my top 10 books of all time. I love this. I love this.

[B]

Holy shit. Oh, my gosh. Well, what. What was it that did it for you?

[A]

I mean, I think the thematic content was so beautifully done. On her side, contemplating what does it mean to have this life where nobody remembers you and you can't form any relationships. I can't really talk about the other side of without spoiling it. So what the male character's kind of like, curse is. But I thought all of that was so beautifully done. I thought it was really surprising at a lot of different turns where I was like. Every time I thought I figured it out, it surprised me. I thought the ending was so good. I just really loved it.

[B]

Good. Top 10 favorite. That's a monumental occasion.

[A]

I mean, I don't Keep a top 10 list of all time, but, I mean, this really hit something for me.

[B]

Oh, good. That's the best feeling.

[A]

Yeah. So I finished that. I started and finished Ina's memoir, and then I read a short story. So Kindle Unlimited has been doing these short story collections. They did one for Valentine's Day, and now they're doing one for Holiday. And they get these, like, mega famous, bestselling romance authors to write. I don't even know if they're novellas. Like, I think they're straight up short stories. And so I read one out of the collection called Cruel Winter with youh by Ali Hazelwood. And it's free on Kindle Unlimited. I think it's also free. The audio version's also free on Audible. And it straight up took me like an hour. Like, it was so fast. It was really cute. I wanted it to be slightly spicier than it ended up being. I guess that's just kind of what you get with an hour book.

[B]

Like, how much can things escalate right to the banging.

[A]

I know. But I thought it was really fascinating from a writing brain perspective. Just the fact that this. I don't know how many words it was, but it was. You know, if you think an average AudioBook is like 10 hours and this was like, one hour, the fact that you really did have such a sense of these characters within it, I was really impressed by that.

[B]

That's a hard thing to do. I could not do that.

[A]

So there's others in the series. There's one by Tessa Bailey. There's one by Alexis Daria. I can't remember who the other two are by authors I'm less familiar with. But if you're feeling like your attention span's really frayed or you just want something that's start and finish in one sitting, I really liked this. And I'm gonna read the Tessa Bailey one too, and see what I think of it. Even though I think the premise of that one is, like, truly ridiculous, as a Tessa Bailey premise tends to be. What about you? You have a lot of reading that you got in this week?

[B]

Well, I have three, one of which is Ina Garten's book. But I loved all three of them, including that one, of course. So I alluded to this. Last week, I finished Blue Sisters by Coco Melors. Every time Jake saw the book, he was like, cocomelon. I was like, nope, that's not it. Loved it. You obviously raved about this. I definitely a favorite of mine of the year, I would say it's essentially about four sisters, one of whom has died from an overdose. And like all of their relationship to each other and addiction, it's probably the best way to put it. Oh, I loved it so much, I immediately went out and bought her first book.

[A]

I have Frankenstein on my list, too. The premise of it sounds really fascinating.

[B]

I don't even know the. What is it?

[A]

It's about a young woman who is, like, in her 20s who enters into, like, a marriage of convenience slash green card marriage with an older man.

[B]

Ooh, that does sound interesting.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It was, like, very critically acclaimed, I think.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I just. I loved this book so much. It was. The end was so beautiful. I just. It was great. Although one of the main characters is a model named Lucky Blue, which is also the name of that model who's married to Nara someone. So I was like, did she not realize that Lucky Blue is already a model out in the universe? I don't know. What are the odds?

[A]

To be fair? I mean, I feel like it's a great name. I feel like this book came out in June in the uk and that probably means that she finished writing it at least nine months before, but I'm guessing even longer. And, like, I feel like Lucky Blue Smith really only came into my consciousness this year. So that's.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like in some ways they've just always been there in my brain. But that's the Internet for you. I also read Heartwood by Amity Gage, another great name, actually, which comes out April 7, 2025. So this one is about a woman who is on the Appalachian Trail hiking and gets lost on her last day of the trip. And so it's about the search for her. I loved this book. I started at 8pm and I finished it by 9am the next day.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I flew through this. If you loved God of the woods, this is a shorter kind of version of that, I would say. But it was blurbed by, like, Kathryn Newman, Jennifer Egan. So I was like, I think I'll like this. I'm obsessed with it. I think I'm choosing the April book club. So I'm gonna suggest this for your consideration. I actually did plan ahead. Look at that. I read ahead.

[A]

I'm so proud of you.

[B]

It's beautiful. I loved it. I loved it. And then, yeah, that was it. And then I read the memoir. So amazing. Look at us with our happy reading reading streak.

[A]

Well, as I alluded to at the top of the episode, we do not have a December book club pick because we're only doing two episodes in December. So we can take our holiday break. Happy to report that next week's episode is a special emergency edition of Obscure Erotica Holiday Obscure Erotica. It just feels like we all need that in our lives.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And then we have our best Books of the Year episode. So if you would like to submit your best book of the year, send us a voicemail. You can record a voice memo on your phone and you can email it to batonpaperpodcastmail.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 843-457. We would love to hear about your favorite book of the year. It can be something that was published this year or something backlist. So call and tell us all about it. It's one of my favorite episodes of the year.

[B]

I'm looking forward to it. Both of them. You can talk to us about any of this in our Geneva group, which is under Bow and Paper podcast, or in our Facebook group under Bow Paper Podcast. Or on Instagram under Bow Paper Podcast.

[A]

I'm on Instagram oliviamentor and I am on Instagram ecamfreeman. And we will see you next week for some weirdness.

[B]

Bye.