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- [00:18]
A
Hi, everyone, and welcome to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.
- [00:22]
B
And I'm Becca Freeman.
- [00:24]
A
And today we're talking all about book to screen adaptations, which is something I'm always interested in and something I know you are passionate about.
- [00:32]
B
I am passionate about it. We'll have to discuss. I don't know if we're having more adaptations than usual, but it feels like we are in a golden age of book adaptations this year.
- [00:44]
A
So many big ones.
- [00:45]
B
So many big ones.
- [00:46]
A
So many.
- [00:47]
B
Okay, but before we get to that, what is your high?
- [00:51]
A
My high is that I had my entire family come to visit. My mom, my dad, my brother, they were all here. And it was Mother's Day, so I feel like we drove all over, I don't know, all over the surrounding area of the Hudson Valley and beyond the Berkshires. We had so much fun doing little day trips. We went out to nice dinners. We went to this hot dog stand in Holyoke, Massachusetts, called Nick's Nest, which is where my grandfather grew up. And my grandfather died. I can't. I can't remember what year he died, but he was almost 100 years old.
- [01:26]
B
Wow.
- [01:27]
A
He was born in 1918, so there's some easy math someone can do. But he talked about Nick's Nest going there as a kid and as a teenager, and when my dad told him it was still in business, he was amazed. So it's not that far from where I live. It's like an hour or so. And so we all went there and it was really cool. But, yeah, we had lots of little adventures like that. And so it was just a nice. A nice weekend of everyone hanging out together. So it was a lot of fun.
- [01:54]
B
Are you a big hot dog enthusiast? Because I remember the story about you stopping for a hot dog on the way back from Maine, too.
- [02:01]
A
Oh.
- [02:01]
B
It also made a high.
- [02:03]
A
You know what's funny? In the book I'm reading right now, which it's called Maine by J. Courtney Sullivan, Flows is mentioned, which I was.
- [02:10]
B
I love that one niche landmark that, you know, I was reading Vacationland by Meg Mitchell Moore, which is also a main book, and they mentioned my favorite lobster roll shack, McCloon's in South Thomaston. And I was like, oh, yes, I agree with this character. This is the best lobster roll.
- [02:26]
A
This is such a fun feeling. I love that. But to answer your question, I wouldn't consider myself a hot dog enthusiast. I like them, but, like, in small doses. So I just like one. You know, I have some people can really go wild just like one hot Dog, relish, ketchup, which I know is controversial. Are you into hot dogs?
- [02:46]
B
No. I find myself quite anti hot dog. Except if you give me a pig in a blanket, I will be thrilled. So it makes no sense. Like, I don't know why I'm opposed to a full size hot dog.
- [02:59]
A
I am actually more in favor of a traditional hot dog with toppings than I am a pig in a blanket. And I'll tell you why. I think the buttery croissant of the roll, the croissant feeling, and then the hot dog is so rich in and of itself, so fatty. It's too much fat. There's nothing to cut it. Which I know people like. Mustard.
- [03:22]
B
Mustard.
- [03:22]
A
But I feel with a regular hot dog, you can get all the acid you want. You can get the ketchup, the relish, the onions, whatever. My brother who recently moved to Chicago has been telling me about a Chicago dog. Have you heard of this?
- [03:37]
B
Yes, I am aware of a Chicago
- [03:38]
A
dog, but yeah, we'll have to make that one of our Facebook discussion points. Pigs in a blanket or hot dogs.
- [03:45]
B
Yeah, I will be curious. We should do it as a poll because I want people to vote.
- [03:49]
A
Yes. Yes, I agree. Well, what's your high?
- [03:52]
B
My high is that last weekend I impulsively painted my bedroom and I'm so happy with it. It's actually not a dissimilar color from the color that you have your guest room painted.
- [04:04]
A
Oh, yeah. Yes, I saw yours. That makes sense. I didn't make that connection, but it's
- [04:09]
B
a little bit pinker than yours, but it's like a. I don't know what I would call it. It almost is the color of a Nantucket red pant.
- [04:18]
A
Yeah. Like a terracotta. Yeah, yeah. Not salmon, not terracotta, but somewhere in that world.
- [04:25]
B
Yeah. I had said when I moved in, I painted my office. I was really happy with it, but it was an undertaking. And I said to myself that I would paint my bedroom at some point. And I wanted to do it before the weather got too hot. And I was definitely gonna let that slide and save it to the fall. And I was talking to my interior designer and we were talking about window treatments and I was like, oh, I guess I really should paint before we put up blinds. So I got a bee in my bonnet at 4:45pm on Friday and I went and got a paint sample. And once there was paint on the wall, it was like a real slippery slope. Like, that room was going to get painted immediately. I could not look at the paint Swatch sitting there for any longer than necessary.
- [05:16]
A
How long did it take you?
- [05:18]
B
I mean, this feels slightly unhinged, but I did the entire room in less than 24 hours. Like ceiling trim, everything. I prepped the room and did two coats on the ceiling before it got dark on Friday. And then I had to sleep on my couch that night because my bedroom was in shambles.
- [05:39]
A
Right.
- [05:40]
B
So I slept on my couch. I didn't sleep that well. And I was up at like 7:30, so I was painting by 8. So I put two coats on the wall before I went to brunch. And then I came home from brunch and did the trim, which was the most annoying part because I had to retape everything.
- [05:55]
A
Hmm. So you're doing a true color drench in that room. Right?
- [05:58]
B
Like in my office too. Yeah.
- [06:00]
A
The ceiling is also that color.
- [06:02]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I'm really into a color. A color drenched room right now, as you know.
- [06:06]
A
I also love a color drench, but I have not gone full. Like, I've never done the ceiling as well.
- [06:12]
B
I think that because my apartment, there's no real architectural details. Like there's not cool moldings or anything. Like, I think color drenching the room makes it look more purposeful than if you just left the ceiling white and the walls of color.
- [06:26]
A
That's really smart. Yeah. I love how all the photos I've seen how it looks. I think it looks great.
- [06:31]
B
I really like it too. I keep calling it my womb room, which nobody likes, but it does feel like a womb. Like it's like very soothing.
- [06:41]
A
Well, I have to tell you because I read that you were considering the sulking room pink.
- [06:46]
B
I was. That was what I thought I was going to do.
- [06:49]
A
I can't recall if this is the color we've chosen for our dining room or not. It may be. If not, it's similar. Maybe it's not.
- [06:57]
B
Be careful.
- [06:58]
A
I don't know.
- [06:58]
B
So I. This time I got those. The company's called Sample eyes, and they make these big stickers and they are color accurate. I got them and I, you know, you can take them off the wall so you can move them around the room to see it in different places in the room. And when I first put it on the wall, I was like, this is my winner. This is the color. And then at night when I looked at it in artificial lamp light, I hated looked so industrial. Like it looked institutional. It was very gray.
- [07:30]
A
Yeah, we don't want gray. No, the farrow and ball colors, because I have Some. Some of them here and there, I found they're. They're so sensitive to light, which is what makes them so great. But it also means that I find I have, like, favorite times of day in every room. I'm like, I prefer it at this time of day and not really at this time because of the light. But I was gonna say I have one of those samplized stickers, and I don't know if it is that exact shade of pink or if it's something similar, but it's a really, really light almost. Almost like the color of my skin.
- [08:03]
B
Oh, no, that's a different color. Silk and green is like a mauve color.
- [08:08]
A
Okay. It. It's a farrow and ball color. I can't remember, but I had the sample. I had moved it around a bunch, and I had it on the molding because Jake had primed the walls, and it looked kind of crinkled. And I posted in. I have, like, a channel on Instagram where I posted more frequently about house update stuff. And it looked so much. With the wrinkles and the dents in it from moving it around. It looked so much like the flesh wall and Wuthering Heights. Did you ever end up seeing Wuthering Heights?
- [08:36]
B
I didn't, but I. Are you talking about the room that's made out of her skin?
- [08:40]
A
Yes. It looked so much like that that I, like, kind of creep myself out. But there's something about once I decide on a paint color, the idea of, like, moving from that paint color to the tens of thousands of other shade options is so overwhelming to me that I'd almost rather just be like, we're going with this, and in 10 years, maybe I'll reset.
- [09:03]
B
I completely understand. I don't actually feel exactly that way, but it's like, I think I had six colors that I got samples of, and I was like, it's one of these six or nothing. Like, there's nothing outside this universe.
- [09:15]
A
Yes, exactly. But you definitely chose the right shade. I. I love it. I think it's. It's very soothing and energizing at the same time.
- [09:23]
B
I agree. I really like it. I'm excited to eventually give the room more of a makeover. My nightstand is, like, a light blue green that, like, absolutely doesn't match.
- [09:36]
A
Well, it works for now, you know?
- [09:38]
B
Totally.
- [09:39]
A
Some things have to wait. Well, what about on the low side?
- [09:42]
B
Okay, so I put a low in this outline, and I'm already ready to renege on my low, which is great. So what I put in here was that I'm around the 25 to 30,000 word mark on this book. And tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but I think you've said in the past that this is a really tough part of a book for you too. Is that right?
- [10:06]
A
Yes.
- [10:07]
B
And this week, I feel like I have been feeling doubt creep in. Like, as an example, I know what the scenes are at the most macro level where I'm like, okay, these two sisters go and have coffee. But then on a more micro level, I'm like, what the hell do they talk about? What happens there? And so I've been struggling with this book. And I had this realization earlier that I think the problem is not the book or me. The problem is that I've set unrealistic expectations yet again for this draft. I said that I wanted to finish it by the end of August, which is half the time it's taken me to finish any first draft ever before. And so while it sounds realistic, what I didn't build in is like, the marinating period. And so I realized earlier I'm having a lot of trouble hitting my word count goals of 1200 words per writing session, but I can pretty easily hit between 5 and 700. And then I. I kind of run out of ground. And then over the rest of the day, while I'm doing other things, I'm on a walk before I'm falling asleep. I kind of figure out what the next 600 words are. And I think the problem is that it's not going as fast as I want it. But that's not bad or wrong. Like I said, an unrealistic goal perhaps, that didn't build in that percolating.
- [11:32]
A
Yeah, I can totally relate to that. I. I feel like I always set word count goals where it's like the most I can possibly squeeze out. But then by the time I get to the end of it, even if I hit the goal, I'm at this point of like, I've sputtered out. Yeah, I heard an A writer I can't remember who talk about on an interview one time how they always stop writing for the day in the middle of a scene or a sentence that they love and that they feel so good about, which I can't do, but I find very interesting.
- [12:03]
B
I've heard that too, but I. It doesn't jive with my brain.
- [12:06]
A
I know, but sometimes I wonder if like. Like operating that way would maybe make it easier to keep going the next day. Similarly to how you're saying, like, if you hit these smaller Goals, then you build in the time to percolate. Then the next day is a little bit easier.
- [12:22]
B
I don't know.
- [12:23]
A
But. Yeah, I hear you.
- [12:24]
B
Yeah. So I. I kind of talked myself out of this spiral, and I feel fine now. And I feel like the answer is just okay, right now it's going a little slower and I just need to chip away. And maybe at some point later it'll go faster or maybe it won't. And, like, who cares? I set this deadline and nobody's rushing me.
- [12:41]
A
Yeah. Very relatable. Very, very relatable. But 25 is all. Yeah. Has historically been a tough point for me, and I'm learning now. About 70, 76. 76, 000 words tends to be hard for me.
- [12:56]
B
Oh, yeah. And ending, wrapping everything up is always hard for me.
- [13:00]
A
Yeah. I feel somehow currently like I am, like, working at it, and yet it is somehow getting further away, not closer, if that makes any sense.
- [13:12]
B
I feel like I need to write the ending multiple times. I don't feel like I get it right on the first time.
- [13:18]
A
I mean, endings are really. Endings are tough.
- [13:21]
B
Endings are tough. And it's high stakes. It's high pressure.
- [13:24]
A
It is. Well, I'm glad you've already kind of moved on from the start.
- [13:28]
B
I have.
- [13:29]
A
Yeah.
- [13:29]
B
I wrote 500 words this morning or 500 and something. And then this afternoon I went on a walk and I was writing these serial killer emails to myself of, like, what was going to happen next. And I was like, oh, like, this is. I'm not stuck. Like, I just need to give it time.
- [13:44]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it really does take time. And I had to take a bit of a. Like, a week or two away from it. And I was like, no, I can't do that. And now I'm realizing, oh, I would have not done anything worthwhile if I had pushed myself in that specific moment. I'm sure there are times when you push yourself and it's worth it, but. But, yeah, it takes the time it takes.
- [14:07]
B
Yeah. What about you on the low side? Anything to report?
- [14:11]
A
No, I'm feeling pretty good. I'm feeling energized, and yeah, I'm feeling good.
- [14:16]
B
Amazing. Well, let's take an ad break and let's get into this episode. This episode is sponsored by Skims. If you've been listening here for a while, you'll remember that a few years ago, way before they became an advertiser, I swapped out most of my underwear drawer for my favorite Skims Fits Everybody Thongs. And having adult money and free will means that I don't need to suffer through wearing worn out or flat out uncomfortable underwear. And what a game changer this has been. These don't show through my clothes. They don't roll down. A problem that I've had with other brands. And they're so, so comfortable. And recently I added a few pairs of the everyday cotton thongs and I love those too.
- [15:03]
A
My entry point to the brand was actually their bras, which I have been wearing for at least three years or so now. And I love them because they look and feel comfortable under everything. T shirts and dresses and formal wear and loungewear. They are just the best. And if I misplace it or I can't find my bra or either of them, I have two now because I've reinvested. I get so anxious because I feel like it is the base layer to all my clothing and to just going about my day feeling good and comfortable and like myself.
- [15:39]
B
Shop Skims Everyday cotton and all of our favorite bras and underwear@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and then be sure to select Bat on Paper in the dropdown menu that follows. Okay, I'm very excited about this topic. Going back to last week, one of my things was going to be Margot's Got Money Troubles, the TV show, and we had an episode fall through and we needed to replan this one. And I realized that I've been covering adaptations a lot on my newsletter, but it's more about news than reactions to the content itself. And there are so many adaptations this year, so I thought this would be a fun episode to do.
- [16:26]
A
Yeah, there's a. I didn't even realize how many there are, but there are so many.
- [16:30]
B
Do you feel like there are more this year or is it just that I'm paying closer attention?
- [16:35]
A
That's tough. I do kind of feel like there are more, but I also am the most tuned into any of the stuff that I have ever been in my prior life. So I don't know. I'm kind of the same way. Like, I'm not. Not totally sure. I do think that there are a lot of big ones, though.
- [16:52]
B
I was gonna say like more and bigger budget.
- [16:55]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [16:57]
B
Yeah. Before we get into other adaptations that are happening, I have a question for you that I don't think we've ever talked about. Have you ever gotten close to having one of your books adapted?
- [17:09]
A
No, Same. No, same. Do people ask you that? Like people not in the industry do you find that it comes up more often than you expected.
- [17:21]
B
I don't know about that, but I feel like it's often said with an expectation that the answer is that it's in my control. And it's like a choice of mine of like, do you want this adapt? Like, have you chosen to adapt this for tv? And I'm like, oh, this is out of my hands, buddy.
- [17:38]
A
Yeah. Imagine if we were just like, mm, we'll pass.
- [17:42]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I had like one phone call about something with a Christmas Orphans Club. And then more recently, my agents requested like, the manuscript for the Christmas Orphans Club because somebody had requested it. So there's been like the lowest level of conversations, but nothing has ever happened. I actually think with both of my first two books, the Christmas Orphans Club and Back Where We Started, I think they would be difficult to adapt because their dual timeline, I think that makes something harder to adapt from a casting perspective. Same with Little One. And there's one adaptation that's coming up that I am very curious to see how it does. We'll talk about it later in the episode that's also dual timeline and to see if they can do it well, because I just feel like it presents such a casting challenge.
- [18:30]
A
Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot too, especially because of the yesteryear of it all and all the conversation that continues to swirl around that, which that's probably a topic for another day, but wow, have I been surprised the way this thing is spun out on the Internet.
- [18:46]
B
Me too.
- [18:47]
A
Like, it's kind of shocked me, actually.
- [18:50]
B
We'll have to in the next Three Things episode, which isn't for a few weeks. We'll have to. Maybe it can be a joint thing.
- [18:55]
A
Yes, yes. On this topic, I guess I've been thinking about the idea of a high concept novel and obviously what that means for TV and film. And it's funny because you think it'd be so easy to come up with an idea that you can pitch in one sentence and it's immediately like you're already, you're already picturing it. But it's, it's so hard once you get into the, the nitty gritty of characters and story and, and everything. But yes, I, I, I think about it a lot, but not, not yet for me.
- [19:28]
B
Okay. Also, as a thought exercise, would you be interested in writing the script for one of your own adaptations?
- [19:35]
A
Like, conceptually? Sure, sure. But it would feel kind of presumptuous since I don't have that skill set. But I mean, I think it'd be interesting to be involved, would you?
- [19:45]
B
So, interestingly, no. I really fetishize the idea of working on some type of TV show and the team sport writing aspect of it, like, I think that would be really fun. So if it was a TV show and there were multiple writers involved, I would love to be involved in that. But if it was, like, for a movie, writing a screenplay, solo sport, I feel like I've kind of, like, run out of steam on both of my books that I've written and, like, really would struggle to reconceptualize them and maybe that would change years down the line. But, like, right now I'm like, no, that doesn't sound compelling to me at all.
- [20:30]
A
Yeah, I think a lot about Tell Me Lies, which I think is a very fascinating book to TV adaptation because I haven't watched it, but from what I have heard, it is so vastly different than the book. Especially as they move beyond the first season.
- [20:45]
B
I was gonna say it went far beyond the book. So they really, like, invented new ground, which I think. And Carola Lovering, the author of that book, was an executive producer, and I know she visited set, but I don't think she was involved in any way in, like, the script writing process. That feels like having surgery without anesthesia of, like, needing to, like, retread and figure out a different way to tell this story or, like, figure out more about this story. Like, I'm like, ooh, I'm done. Yeah, I would love to see what somebody else came up with. Like, I would love somebody else to do it.
- [21:20]
A
Yes, yes, same. I think when you're getting something adapted, you kind of have to accept. And this is something I did not think about or know before I was in this industry at all. But you kind of have to accept that it's a totally different medium and so the story is going to shift no matter what. It's not really a question of if it will. And I think that almost requires your distance from it, not you being more involved in some ways.
- [21:45]
B
That said, I would love to work on the adaptation of, like, one of my favorite books. I have no credentials for that, so I don't know why they would let me, but that would be a dream.
- [21:57]
A
Just a consultant. I mean, hey, I could see it happening. Which one?
- [22:02]
B
I mean, any Emily Henry, Carly Fortune, Annabelle Monahan type book. Like, I would love to work on an adaptation of that type of romance.
- [22:12]
A
That would be amazing. I would just like to be involved in the music selection.
- [22:16]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [22:17]
A
I have so many playlists for different books. And I think that if any of my books were to be adapted, that's the thing I would feel I would probably have no say in, but I would feel the most intensely that it has to be a certain way. It's fun to think about, to dream about.
- [22:33]
B
Sure. It would be so surreal to see somebody build the world that you came up with in your head.
- [22:39]
A
I kept thinking about Carly Fortune when I was watching the trailer for every. I think it's called Every Year after. And how odd it must be to see your vision, but it's also someone else's vision.
- [22:52]
B
Yeah. I think it would be exhilarating.
- [22:54]
A
I can't imagine it. But also very uncomfortable, I think, because inevitably it's not who you pictured. You know, it's not the exact thing in your brain. It cannot be.
- [23:07]
B
But do you, as you're writing, do you see the scenes you are writing playing, like a movie in your head?
- [23:13]
A
Yes.
- [23:14]
B
Oh, interesting.
- [23:15]
A
Do you?
- [23:16]
B
No, Rarely.
- [23:17]
A
Huh. So how does it work for you, then? Are you just kind of. I can't imagine not seeing it.
- [23:22]
B
So I can't remember the name for it. But, you know when you, like, close your eyes and you try to picture an apple? Like, I can't actually see an apple.
- [23:30]
A
Hmm. Yeah. There's gotta be a word for that.
- [23:32]
B
There is. I can't remember what it is and, like. But I can picture things because I do visually dream sometimes. It's almost like the idea of a scene rather than actually seeing it.
- [23:43]
A
Okay. Wow, that's fascinating.
- [23:46]
B
I think that one question I get a ton and I think is really common in romance is, like, who were you picturing in your head? Like, what are the actors or actresses you were picturing as you were writing this? And it's like, it doesn't work like that for me.
- [23:58]
A
That's actually a good point because that's where I don't really see specific things like setting. I see very clearly and I see the people moving through the scenes, but I don't really see, like, physical characteristics. They're just that way. They're just. But it's strange. I don't know how to describe it. Like, something about physically describing a character always feels a little weird to me because it's almost like I'm. It's not me, but it's like I'm seeing the world through their eyes. And so therefore, I'm not seeing them. It's like I'm not seeing their physical being. I'm seeing everything that's happening around them. And I try to pick Actors, because I think it's helpful. But then it inevitably doesn't work either. So I don't know.
- [24:46]
B
I also don't have a huge cache of actors I know who are under 30.
- [24:51]
A
Right. Are all your characters under 30 that you've written?
- [24:54]
B
Well, in the Christmas Orphans Club, they were. In the present timeline, they were all around 30, but it started when they were in college. So I think, you know, you would probably want, like, actors in their 20s. And then in back where we started, it starts when she's 9 and he's 10. And then in the present timeline, she's 29 and he's 30.
- [25:15]
A
Okay. Yeah, I guess you're right.
- [25:18]
B
Anyway, should we talk about some of these adaptations? Let's start with the ones that have already come out this year.
- [25:23]
A
Okay.
- [25:24]
B
Okay. So we started really big. I don't know. In my world, I think it was big with the People We Meet on Vacation adaptation, which was the first. First Emily Henry adaptation to make it to screen. Did you watch this?
- [25:38]
A
I did not, but I did listen to a review of it.
- [25:41]
B
To be honest, the further I get away from it, the more disappointed I am. I think I wanted to like it so badly, I almost forced it a little because that is my favorite Emily Henry book. I have, without exaggeration, probably read that book six or seven times. It is a book that I've returned to many times for research or for inspiration because it's dual timeline. And both of my books so far have been dual timeline. It's been a real touchstone for me. And it also, just as a reader, it's my favorite of her books, even though I think it is debatably the least popular of her books on the whole. So I just, like, I wanted justice for this book I love so much. I wanted it to be good. And there. There is, like, one scene that I felt was so electric when they're. They're in New Orleans and they're at this dive bar and she's wearing a blue wig and they do this, like, dance number. And I thought that was, like, so full of chemistry and was, like, really alive. The rest of it, I was like. I was disappointed by it, but I also don't know if I'm the best judge of it because I'm too close. Like, I'm the person who's comparing. I know that book so well that I'm comparing well, it happened this way in the book. Why didn't it happen this way? Why did you change that?
- [26:54]
A
But I can't say that I've Heard a lot in either direction about this. Like, I haven't heard people be like, I loved every second of this movie. You know, I heard people be like, it's fine, or it's not that great.
- [27:10]
B
But at the time, I feel like there were a lot of positive reactions, but it hasn't had any staying power. Like, the conversation fizzled pretty quickly.
- [27:19]
A
Well, what about this next Emily Henry adaptation?
- [27:22]
B
Oh, my God. Have you been following this? So it seems like the next one that's going to make it into production is Beach Read, which is my least favorite Emily Henry book, but a lot of people's favorite. And so Yulin Kuang, who wrote a book called how to End a Love Story, is also a screenwriter, and she wrote the original screenplay for People We Meet on Vacation. I would be so curious to, like, get an inside track on what happened, because the people who got the writing credit for People We Meet on Vacation and writing credits on movies is, from what I understand, a very contentious process. They brought in a team of writers to rewrite the movie, and it was both men. And their most acclaimed writing credit was the Lego Movie. Like it. Like, I was like, this makes no sense to me. So I don't know that we can blame Eulen Kuang for the screenplay for People We Meet on Vacation. Also, it was directed by a man. So Beach Read is going to be written and directed by Yulen Kuang. So I don't know if that means more of the same or if that is, like, a more pure interpretation that she has full creative control. So I'm curious to see how that goes. But the casting news around this has been very controversial. So first they announced that Phoebe Deniver, who was from Bridgerton, she was in a younger, was going to play January, the female main character. And people were generally happy about that. I agree. I like that. Then more recently, they announced that Patrick Schwarzenegger was going to be Gus. And I did not watch the most recent season of the White Lotus, so I'm not really coming in with any. I know what he looks like, but I have absolutely no idea about his acting skills. But people are up in arms. Did you watch the White Lotus? Do you have thoughts on this?
- [29:13]
A
I did, and he was just the biggest douche of all time in the show. I mean, I don't know. The thing I think, with this pairing of people is that they're just both very bland to me. Like, I think of them and I think of a shade of khaki, you know, it's just not anything they're like, vague hot people stirs passion in me. I'm like, okay. Like, I feel like they're both very clean and they. I don't know.
- [29:45]
B
Oh, God. Imagine the best thing somebody could come up with to say about you is, like, they're very clean. What a fashion compliment.
- [29:52]
A
When I look at them, I'm like, I just feel like they smell nice and they have zero interesting opinions. Like, that's how I feel about them. I also have been a little bit confused by Phoebe Devner's career choices. Like, I just. I feel like after Bridgerton, I expected something. I feel like she's waiting for something to, like, bring her to the next level or, like, hasn't found it or. I don't know. And then he. I feel like White Lotus was sort of his breakout. I don't know. I don't know. I saw probably the funniest substack note I've seen, which was a photo of his Met Gala look, which was slightly absurd. And I don't think I saw it, especially on him. It wasn't giving khaki. It was. It was something. And then it was that image paired with, like, a really romantic quote from the book. And it was just so funny. And I have no investment in this as, like, a reader because I'm not an Emily Henry super fan. But I have found the commentary around the choice of him very interesting. But, yeah, just bland, hot people. I'm like, I don't.
- [30:59]
B
What I find very curious about this is usually after there is big casting news, Emily Henry, pretty immediately, like within a week or two, sends out a newsletter talking about a little bit behind the scenes, saying how excited she is about this casting choice. Like, et cetera. She has not sent one since this was announced, and this was probably announced about a month ago, so I wonder. She sent one about Phoebe Dynevor, but she never sent one after Patrick Schwarzenegger was cast. So it makes me wonder if they're reconsidering his casting after the fan reaction. I mean, fact check me on this. Maybe she posted about it, but she didn't send an email.
- [31:41]
A
Interesting. Yeah, I guess she didn't. I recall reading something somewhere where it was like, I know people have very strong feelings about this.
- [31:49]
B
She did address that in the note she sent out with Phoebe Dynevor's casting.
- [31:54]
A
Okay, okay, okay. Maybe I conflated. Okay. I don't think they'd recast him, though, because they had to have already done all the chemistry reads like, I don't know.
- [32:03]
B
But social media, like, the fans are so up in arms. And when you think about a show like Heated Rivalry, which really succeeded based on social media and fandom, like, unless Patrick Schwarzenegger is going to pull out, like a very surprisingly nuanced performance, like, is it a little dead on arrival?
- [32:25]
A
That's a good question. I mean, it actually though, like, it makes me more curious to watch as someone who's kind of like, eh, like I kind of want to see now because everyone has such low expectations of him.
- [32:38]
B
But that's. I think he's a badass. It's only exciting if he can exceed those expectations.
- [32:42]
A
I know, but it means nothing to me if he doesn't. So I'm just like, hmm, we'll see. But you're right, maybe they will switch it up.
- [32:51]
B
I wonder. I wonder.
- [32:53]
A
Well, what about Project Hail Mary, which is my adaptation of the year, as we all know?
- [32:59]
B
I feel like that was just about as perfect of an adaptation as you could do. Like, everything about that worked for me. I feel also that I was at the perfect level of distance from reading it for seeing the movie. Like, I read it four years ago. I remembered a few scenes, I remembered the high points, but I wasn't so close that I was comparing the two and being like, why did they do this differently? Why did they exclude that?
- [33:28]
A
That's a really good point. Yeah. I feel kind of the same. Even though I've read this multiple times. I hadn't in a while.
- [33:34]
B
Yeah. Do you think that this has awards slash Oscar chances?
- [33:39]
A
This is an interesting question because when I watched it, obviously I loved it, but Oscars did not pop into my mind at all, other than maybe like a best picture nomination just to like, kind of have a nod to like a box office favorite for the year. And that isn't to say that it wasn't well done, which I obviously thought it was. I just. I mean, I thought Ryan Gosling was good, but it wasn't like, moving to me in a way that I. I don't know, on an acting level. I don't know. I just thought I'd seen him do better. Having said that, do I think it's better than his role in Barbie? Yes, I do, actually. But then you brought it up and I thought, oh, maybe, maybe. Actually there is some, like, Oscar promise here.
- [34:19]
B
I'm not saying it has it in the bag to win it because we're so early in the year that I don't know what it's up against, but I do think it will be nominated. And the thing about Ryan Gosling's performance, which I was also critical of, is it feels like a version of Ryan Gosling the person.
- [34:35]
A
Right.
- [34:35]
B
But the fact that he was acting opposite a puppet slash CGI object and he was alone for so much of that movie and was able to convey such emotion is a really impressive acting performance, even if it is clear close to how he appears, at least as a human.
- [34:56]
A
Yeah, I definitely agree with you. But I was gonna say is that recently I talked to someone and they were talking about Project Hail Mary and I was like, it's great. And she's like, oh, I've heard nothing but bad things.
- [35:08]
B
What? I've heard nothing but good things.
- [35:11]
A
I was like, what? Where have you heard this? And that made me question some things. I mean, there were a few small things that like, I would probably do a little bit. I would do differently if someone gave me $400 million or whatever.
- [35:26]
B
It has a 94% on rotten tomatoes. Like what circles of so does Marty
- [35:32]
A
supreme, probably so I don't even know if I should.
- [35:35]
B
That was nominated for everything. But like, what circle of movie snobs is this person hanging out with?
- [35:40]
A
I mean, it shocked me as well, but it was the first time I think I'd heard anything negative about it.
- [35:45]
B
Me too, me too.
- [35:47]
A
But yeah, I. I mean, I saw it twice. I'll see it again. I loved it. I stand by that. I think the beginning was a little slow, but that's just me.
- [35:56]
B
This feels like it could be an all timer plane movie. Like have you seen the discourse right now about how some flight attendant said on maybe threads or Twitter or somewhere that the movie that everyone puts on when they get on a plane is Crazy Rich Asians, which I do all the time. So I agree with that. But it does feel like Project Hail Mary could be an excellent movie to put on on a plane.
- [36:20]
A
I agree. And I think in a similar vein, this is also. This makes me nostalgic for a different time. But you know the idea of like a movie that you would put on anytime you saw it playing on a channel. If you're like scrolling on table. This to me has that sort of essence to it as well.
- [36:36]
B
It also has getting played in science classes vibes.
- [36:39]
A
Yes.
- [36:40]
B
Like the end of the year.
- [36:42]
A
Yeah, I agree with you. Ugh, I loved it. I'll never forget the experience of watching it for the first time. It was just such a nice moment of my year.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah, I agree. What about Vladimir? This feels like a book that I could picture you having read. Did you read the book or have you Watched the adaptation or do you have any interest in watching the adaptation?
- [37:02]
A
I haven't read the book. I wasn't really that interested in the adaptation until I saw who was starring. I love Leo Woodall.
- [37:11]
B
I know you loved the new One Day so much.
- [37:15]
A
So much. And I think he's making such interesting acting choices. I just think he's great. And obviously Rachel Weisz is, like, iconic, you know, incredible. So I don't know if I will watch it. But of a lot of the adaptations happening right now, it does appeal to me more. Did you read this book?
- [37:32]
B
No, I didn't read the book. I haven't watched the adaptation. I said that I might, but I've just gotten sucked into Bravo stuff, and that's what I've been watching.
- [37:40]
A
It happens.
- [37:41]
B
I feel like generally what I've heard is I've heard a lot of people say her performance is incredible, but I haven't really heard anyone say, like, this show kept my attention. Or this show was like, Pacey. Or this show was good. It was like, everything I've heard is about her performance.
- [37:59]
A
Okay.
- [37:59]
B
Positive.
- [38:01]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [38:02]
B
But nobody's like, you need to watch this show. This show is so good.
- [38:05]
A
Yeah. I have not seen anyone talk about it.
- [38:08]
B
I think, yeah, it did kind of fly under the radar.
- [38:11]
A
Yeah. But maybe if it's like, you know, if I'm sick one day or something, I'll turn it on. Well, what about the show of the moment, which I think is Margot's Got Money Troubles, which also I just saw today, got renewed for a second season.
- [38:22]
B
Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad. And I think there's so much fodder for a second season based on where the book left off and where I assume the show will leave off. Olivia, I am obsessed with everything about this show. I think it's such a well done adaptation. It's very close to the book. The casting is insane. First of all, I was really surprised by how much nudity there is. And I can hear that, obviously, the book is about a woman who creates an OnlyFans account. And in the book, you know, there's a big plot line about her showing her vag and how she will do that. And I know all of this. I loved the book. But Elle Fanning is such a level of famous that I just didn't think that she would be doing nudity. Like, I thought it would be cropped in ways where you understand that she's showing her boobs, but you're not seeing her boobs. And from the first episode. Like, there is a lot of nudity.
- [39:22]
A
I listened to a review of this, and I did hear that, but I also heard that there's so much breastfeeding content that, like, it almost kind of neutralizes, like, the rest of it. I don't know. It's like you're kind of used to it.
- [39:34]
B
I listened to an interview, read an interview with Rufi Thorpe, the author of the book, when it came out, and her talking about how she was inspired by the Madonna whore complex of, like, our reverence and worship for mothers versus our indictment of sex workers. And so, yeah, I think it is really interesting that the breastfeeding is played against the more sexualized nudity.
- [40:01]
A
Yeah, I've heard nothing but good things about this.
- [40:04]
B
It's so good. And, I mean, not only is Elle Fanning so good in it, but the broader cast, and especially Nick Offerman plays her dad, who is not at all who I was picturing based on the description, the book. I think in the book, he's described as very tall and skinny, which Nick Offerman is not. He is playing the shit out of this role. And, like, I love him so much. I want to say that he's my favorite. But my favorite might be Michelle Pfeiffer as her very vapid appearance obsessed mom. Oh, my God, she's so good.
- [40:34]
A
Did you know that Michelle Pfeiffer's married to the director, the showrunner, the show?
- [40:38]
B
Why, yes, Olivia, I did find that out as I was deep diving into everything about this show when it came out. And he is a really weird filmography.
- [40:49]
A
Didn't he do, like, Felicity or something? Or he did Boston Legal. Yeah. Okay.
- [40:55]
B
But then I think, like, more recently, he also did, like, Big Little Lies.
- [40:59]
A
Oh, yes. Yes, that's right. Ally McBeal. Did I say that?
- [41:03]
B
No, you said Felicity.
- [41:05]
A
Oh, okay. Sorry.
- [41:06]
B
Women's names.
- [41:07]
A
Ally McBeal, the Lincoln lawyer. A lot of drama. Presumed Innocent, Anatomy of a Scandal. Yeah, interesting.
- [41:16]
B
Yeah.
- [41:17]
A
A lot of adaptations, though. Doogie Howser.
- [41:21]
B
I feel like this really captures the spirit of the book in a way that if this was my book being adapted, I would be really proud of, like, the way that they kept the weirdness and, like, kept the heart and, like, translated what made the book so special into the screen adaptation, which I feel like is sometimes rare. Like, I feel like what's really difficult is in a book, so much of what makes a book special is the interiority. And so translating a book's essence to screen is just inherently difficult.
- [41:56]
A
Do you think that there's a Certain type of book or certain qualities that a book has that makes it more likely to be a successful adaptation.
- [42:05]
B
I mean, I think a plot driven book, like, it doesn't surprise me that Project Hail Mary was such a successful adaptation because it was so much plot, you know, and his feelings are not particularly nuanced or his external projection of his feelings is not that different from his internal feelings. And so, like, it's a lot on the surface. So that doesn't surprise me. Before heated rivalry, I think I would have told you that romance is like fundamentally difficult to impossible to adapt well. But I think that heated rivalry did such a phenomenal, nuanced job of bringing that romance to screen even better than the book. I think that I'm like, I have to eat my words.
- [42:50]
A
Yeah. It's almost like it really depends on the writing, the actors. It's not just the genre or the emotional or even the plot, really.
- [43:00]
B
I think actually, I mean, also thinking about the Summer I Turned Pretty, that's an adaptation that I feel like is better to me than the book is as well. The books were written as middle grade books and they just feel very juvenile. I read the first book. I was not compelled to keep reading the series. This was, you know, 10 years ago. It's like the show is so addictive and so in some ways it's like you can make something that's more than what's on the page as well. It's all the ingredients come together.
- [43:28]
A
Yeah. And I think arguably Gone Girl does that. I don't think it's better than the page, but I think it is as. It's almost like it's just as good, but in all of its own ways, as well as echoing the exact feeling of the book, which is so hard. And maybe that's. Maybe it's cast, maybe it's director, maybe it's just the right combination of things. But gosh, it's so rare to get something adapted and then it's so, so, so rare to have it work. Like, it's incredibly hard. I think so. I'm sure that Rufi Thorpe is so excited about the Bargos. Got money troubles? Success now on the screen?
- [44:06]
B
I hope so. Well, let's take an ad break and then I want to talk about some forthcoming adaptations that are coming later. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental health awareness month. So let this be a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Whether that's dealing with the big stuff like family or relationship struggles or even the smaller stuff like I cannot tell you how often I talk about my book writing process and therapy, which is something that affects my day to day. Speaking to a therapist who can listen, understand and support you can make all the difference.
- [44:45]
A
If you're worried about finding the perfect fit, BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and BetterHelp's 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they usually get it right the first time. But if you aren't happy with your match, you can always switch to a different therapist at any time.
- [45:07]
B
With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, Having served over 6 million people globally and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars for a live session based on 1.7 million client reviews. You don't need to be on this journey alone, Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com BatonPaper that's betterhelp.com BatonPaper. Okay, I actually don't know about this for you because I think this book came out before you joined the podcast. Did you read Remarkably Bright Creatures by Shelby Van Pelt?
- [45:54]
A
Yes, I did, and it was one of my favorite books of that year.
- [45:57]
B
I mentioned this in my newsletter on Sunday and Grace commented that she could not believe that I never read it. And something terrible about me, which I don't think will be surprising to anyone, is that once something is too popular unless I have gotten in on the ground floor, I have a very contrarian reaction to things and I'm like, ugh, it's too big. I don't care. I don't want to read it. And so I never read this book. So many people have told me since I wrote about it on Sunday, they were like, you need to. You need to like. I feel vaguely attacked, but in a nice way. People love this book.
- [46:31]
A
Yeah, it's, it's very good. I haven't read it since then, but it's very similar feeling, I think, to the Correspondent in terms of you can hand this book to anyone in the world and they will probably like it. Yeah, I loved it.
- [46:46]
B
So the adaptation, it's a movie. It came out on Netflix last Friday. Well, two Fridays ago when you're listening to this and it stars Sally Field and Lewis Pullman. Are you gonna watch it?
- [46:56]
A
You know, I talked about watching it with my mom who also read and liked the book when she was visiting over the weekend. Because I thought it'd be a, you know, a nice family movie to watch together. And then we didn't get to it. And I don't know if I will watch it. It's just. I don't know. It's not that I, like, don't want to. I just don't feel compelled. I've heard it's pretty good, though.
- [47:15]
B
I have too. I've heard really good things about it.
- [47:17]
A
Yeah.
- [47:18]
B
A movie is difficult for me versus tv, for whatever reason. Like, the commitment of sitting down to watch a full movie feels like such a monumental attention. Ask even if I might. Well, we'll talk about in the next one that I, you know, binged four episodes of something in a row that comes out to more than a movie.
- [47:37]
A
I could go either way on this one. I don't know. I'll keep everyone updated. But in a weird way, this feels like so long ago that I read this book and I remember really liking it, but it almost feels like too long. Yeah, we'll see.
- [47:50]
B
Did you see any of the clips of Sally Field on Watch what Happens Live? It was, like, very iconic. Every question Andy asked her, trying to get, like, a fun answer, she just was like. Was like, how often do you, like, rewatch your old work? And she was like, never. Like, how often do you shine your Oscars? She was like, never. Like. It was just. It was so funny.
- [48:11]
A
Yeah. She seems really, really cool. I did see that. Yeah. They both seem very likable, both of the leads. So I need to watch this maybe.
- [48:19]
B
Oh, my God. What I'm excited to talk about. I didn't know that I was going to be excited to talk about this when I wrote this outline. So Off Campus, which is a series of books by L. Kennedy, the adaptation came out on prime video on May 13th. So when we're recording this yesterday. So I said to myself, last night, I had gone out to dinner, I got home at probably like 9:30, and I was like, let me just put on the first episode so that I can have a little bit of an opinion on this. When we record Olivia, I stayed up till two in the morning. I watched four and a half episodes. And they're like meaty episodes. They're probably like 45 minutes. I was sobbing at one point. I like this so much more than I expected to.
- [49:04]
A
Okay, that's good.
- [49:05]
B
It's like a hockey show. I'm apparently Hockey TV's most reluctant fan, like, biggest yet. Reluctant fan? Yeah. It's set at a college. So the first episode, I couldn't stop comparing it to heated rivalry and finding it wanting. Like, it is a very different thing. It's set at a college. All these guys are straight, and they live in this, like, gross frat house. You know, they're like, straight bros with each other. But it has this, like, the romance reader in me. It has this fake dating trope from the very beginning of we're gonna fake date. And in exchange, she'll tutor him in this class that he is failing, and then he'll help her make the guy that she has a crush on jealous. And it's like one of those things where you're like, oh, my God, of course you're gonna fall for each other. Of course you, like. You're, like, down bad for this other person, but you can't see it. Oh, my God. It's like catnip to me. And they have great chemistry.
- [50:06]
A
Maybe that's just the key. It's the chemistry.
- [50:09]
B
Yeah. And they're both. I mean, they're not unknown. She was a child actress. She's quite young. She's 19. So that probably means she was, like, 18 when they were filming this, which I'm like, oh, for such an explicit
- [50:20]
A
show, I'm like, well, I mean, how explicit are we? Is this heated rivalry level?
- [50:25]
B
Yes.
- [50:26]
A
Oh, yes.
- [50:27]
B
It's interesting because a lot of the sex in the earlier episodes are not between the leads. It's between the lead guy and other women. It's between the lead girl and her crush. But it's in dream sequences. You know, that's obviously how the book was written, too, that it's a fake dating trope, so they're not going to actually get together until later. But it did make me think of relative to heated rivalry and, like, how we don't stigmatize men having strong sexual appetites. And, like, the sex in that show starts immediately. Like, 20 minutes in this show keeps the leads apart much longer. You know, it's not a fair judgment of it because that's. They're following the storyline of the book. It wouldn't make sense if they got together in episode one. But it did just strike me as an interesting parallel of, like, how do we treat women's sexuality versus men's.
- [51:23]
A
Interesting. Well, I don't know if I'll watch this, but I am kind of curious.
- [51:27]
B
It's eight episodes. I'm probably going to finish it tonight.
- [51:31]
A
Report back on the end.
- [51:33]
B
It's interesting. So I heard somebody. I think I saw Somebody saying on real. Somebody's saying that Amazon is trying to be the new cw.
- [51:42]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [51:43]
B
Which is such an interesting play. Like, the CW was so important to me as a teenager and even into my 20s. Yeah. And like, off campus, they have the Summer I Turned Pretty. They have Maxton hall, and then they have this next show that we're going to talk about. They have every year after based on Every Summer after by Carly Fortune.
- [52:01]
A
Yeah. Talk about the Summer I Turned Pretty vibes.
- [52:04]
B
Oh, I know.
- [52:05]
A
And I was like, oh, this feels the same.
- [52:07]
B
I know. What did you think of it? We. We watched the trailer. We can link the trailer in the show notes. This doesn't come out until, I think, June 10th. So we have a little ways.
- [52:16]
A
Yeah, I kind of felt about it like I felt about the Summer I Turned Pretty, which is that. Could I put this on and end up watching a whole season? Sure. But does it move me in any sort of particular way? Not exactly. I read this book, but I'm not like a Die Hard super fan like so many people are. I do love the Maggie Rogers song. I do love Maggie Rogers.
- [52:37]
B
I think it's interesting that, you know, the Summer I Turned Pretty, I cannot even imagine what the music budget was on that show, but they really went hard for the music. And it seems like based on this, it has light on by Maggie Rogers over the trailer. I was like, oh, like you're following the playbook.
- [52:53]
A
Yeah, I see you have a note here that they have the same cast for old and young. Was this book also a dual timeline?
- [52:59]
B
Yeah, the book is dual timeline. And so the setup for the book is it starts when she's maybe 12, and it goes through senior year of high school. And then in the present timeline, I want to say she's in her early 30s. And the catalyst for the book is that the guy's mom dies and she goes back to this lake house that she hasn't been to in many years. And that's the same setup for the book. Although I think the past timeline is condensed. I don't know if it starts as early or maybe you only see it through flashbacks. But, yeah, they used the same casting for both. And my only gripe with this, like, I thought the trailer was fantastic, but my only gripe is, and I'm wondering how it will feel when I see full episodes, is that the lead actress looks young. And I do not know if that will be distracting to me in the scenes where she is. The present scenes.
- [53:55]
A
Well, okay, so that's. That's interesting because I haven't read it in a while. And if you would have asked me before I watched this trailer, I would have told you. Yeah, I think they were in their early 30s or something in the adult chapters or the. The now.
- [54:08]
B
Maybe they aged them down. Like maybe they made them 25 in the show.
- [54:12]
A
Yeah. And that's what I was gonna say because watching the trailer, they look so young. Like, they look. They all look high school.
- [54:19]
B
It's hard to tell which timeline you're in in the trailer.
- [54:22]
A
Exactly. And she's just kind of young looking.
- [54:24]
B
She is.
- [54:26]
A
So I wouldn't be surprised if they made it more like 17 to 25 instead of 12 to 30. You know, maybe.
- [54:33]
B
And in the book, I feel like it's pretty evenly weighted between the timelines. I wonder if the young timeline will have more weight in the adaptation. Kind of leaning on the summer I turn pretty of it all.
- [54:46]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [54:48]
B
So I was talking to a friend about this who's also a fan of the book, and she was saying that she saw the lead actress in it whose name is Sadie Soverall. She played. I don't know if she was the lead or if she was just in it, but she was in John Proctor as the villain in London in the West End. And apparently she was phenomenal in it. So she was saying that she agreed on the age being a bit weird, but she said she was a very good actress.
- [55:12]
A
Oh, well, maybe that'll make. That'll make up for it.
- [55:14]
B
I agree. I agree. I'm so excited for this. I really feel like it's going to be like the summer of Carly Fortune. I'm so happy for her.
- [55:22]
A
Yeah. It seems like, I think number one New York Times bestseller. Her new book, she's just five books in five years. It's incredible. Incredible. Talk about author milestones.
- [55:32]
B
Oh, my gosh. Okay. The other one I wanted to talk about that I'm so curious to get your point of view on because you are not in this reading universe is we have a trailer for the Five Star Weekend by Ellen Hildebrand which is out July 9th on Peacock. How does this land for you as a non Ellen reader?
- [55:52]
A
I really liked this trailer, actually. Me too.
- [55:54]
B
Oh, I'm so glad to hear you say that.
- [55:56]
A
It reminded me so much. Weirdly, the other day I watched the trailer for Catch and Release, which is a early Aughts rom com starring Jennifer Garner, but I really like Jennifer Garner. And also I saw Claire Louise Sevign was in this, which kind of surprised me, but I was like, interesting Very star studded cast. Yeah, it seems like it's gonna be really good. I don't know, I thought it was a really good trailer.
- [56:18]
B
I did too. And I love the whole premise of the show book. Like the premise is this woman who's like a younger Ina Garten, famous food person. She has like a food blog for her 50th birthday. Brings together five friends. I can't remember if she's the fifth or there's five plus her, all from different eras of her life. So it's like her childhood best friend, her college best friend, her best friend from raising her kids and then like her best friend from her like more famous life. It's such like, it's such an interesting premise.
- [56:55]
A
It's soon. It's coming out soon, I guess.
- [56:57]
B
Oh my gosh. I can't wait. You know, the only person in here who felt a little off to me, I love Gemma Chan so much, but I'm like, how did you end up in this friend group? I'm curious to find out how this like British lady ended up here.
- [57:11]
A
Maybe she's like the more famous, you know.
- [57:14]
B
Yeah, maybe. Or maybe she's the college friend and she was like on exchange or something.
- [57:18]
A
Maybe. But yeah, she's so like, she's so beautiful and like fancy. She's just. It's. Yeah, I totally get what you mean.
- [57:28]
B
Yeah. Oh, I'm so excited for this. I mean, I had my problems with the perfect couple, but I net net liked it. But I am so excited for the Ellen Hildebrand cinematic universe. Like the fact that there haven't been more adaptations to me. And her books feel so ripe for adaptation because there's multiple points of view, there's so much action. Like there are so many of her books that I would love to see adapted.
- [57:51]
A
I'm sure they're all going to be. She's just going to be raking in the money forever. Honestly.
- [57:56]
B
Good for her. You know that I think she's one of the most historically disrespected people in publishing, which I guess sounds like a real eye rolly opinion to have about a straight white lady. But like just that she went to Iowa and like how many books she wrote and how commercially successful they were and how dismissed they were really, until the pandemic.
- [58:14]
A
Mm. Yeah. Well, I, I hope she is just enjoying her life on a beach, just feeling good, you know.
- [58:24]
B
She's gonna be on a beach.
- [58:25]
A
Yeah, of course. Or in Hollywood with all of these adaptations. You don't know. Okay, well, what about Verity. Another big one.
- [58:33]
B
What about Verity? I mean, this is your wheelhouse. Although I do feel like this book is very important to the podcast because I feel like I had the idea of you and Grace had Verity, and those were both like books that we were gaga for.
- [58:49]
A
Yeah. I do think that Verity weirdly got me back into reading in a way. Like, I had an experience with it where I have not read it. I'm sure I would have different opinions. So I have not read it since I originally read it maybe six years ago or something. I don't know. But there was something about it that was also impactful to me. Like it just. It was so addictive that I just. It rearranged how I was thinking about reading.
- [59:14]
B
For anything you can say about a Colleen Hoover novel, that woman's mastery of pace is second to none. I gave that book recently, like last year. My friend Elizabeth was staying with me and she's not a big reader and I was giving books to my friend Molly and Elizabeth was like, give me a book. And I gave her Verity and she was staying with me for a weekend. She finished that book in less than 24 hours. She was like staying up late after we got home from plans in the evening. She was like, I stayed up till 3am reading this. And like, she's not a reader.
- [59:49]
A
It has something in it where it is just impossible to put it down. I hadn't watched the trailer until today. So what did you think? It, you know, it's weird. It reminded me how dark the book is and I, like, kind of forgot. But then I watched it. I was like, oh, yeah, this is kind of how it felt reading it. I remember. I think it's either going to be extremely bad or surprisingly good. It's not that the trailer was bad. I just. It's very campy. I don't know. What do you think?
- [60:21]
B
I mean, I thought the trailer delivered. I think it was a great trailer. So if that's any indication of the movie, I think we're in for it. I think this looks about 150% too scary for me, but I will watch it anyway.
- [60:36]
A
They really made it very, very, very scary.
- [60:39]
B
Yes. It was like jump scary. I was quite pooh pooey about the casting. I thought that Anne Hathaway and Dakota Johnson felt too close in age relative to how I perceived the characters ages in the book. I'm also not the biggest fan of Dakota Johnson's acting skills. And then, you know, I truthfully, I had so pictured Nicole had been playing Verity. Like Nicole Kidman was born to play a nefarious looking woman in a coma like she just was.
- [61:12]
A
I think Anne Hathaway and Nicole Kidman have a shared essence, though. There's something about them that seems very similar to me. Not in their necessarily acting style, but in their, like, way of being in the world.
- [61:26]
B
I can see that as people, but I feel like as actresses, they do feel quite different to me.
- [61:30]
A
Hmm. I think they're kind of. They're maybe on their own paths, but I feel like they're kind of reaching the center point. Like, the middle of the Venn diagram is getting closer and closer. I. I don't know. There's something that's very. I feel like Anne theatrical about them both.
- [61:44]
B
I agree. I feel like Anne Hathaway generally, and maybe this is just what does well for her because maybe there's other more niche roles, but I feel like she plays it safer in her roles. And I feel like Nicole Kidman is, like, bonkers. Like, she's like. Like she's in the Margot's Got Money Troubles adaptation as a wrestler, like, baby girl with such a risk. Like, I'm like, I just feel like she has zero fucks left. And she's like, really wants to push the envelope in a way that Anne Hathaway plays it a little safer.
- [62:14]
A
Well, she did that. What is it? Mary Mother Mary movie that just came out this year.
- [62:19]
B
Oh, the pop star one? Have you seen it?
- [62:21]
A
Yes. That was. No. I listened to the review of it. It seems too weird for me, to be honest. Like, too weird and too creepy. But it was out there. And also she is doing the Nicole Kidman thing of doing like 12,000 projects a year.
- [62:33]
B
So many. They had to move this. This was originally supposed to come out in February, and they had to move it because it conflicted with promo for the Devil Wears Prada, too.
- [62:42]
A
Wow.
- [62:42]
B
So I feel like this one's been, like, in the can for a while. It comes out in October.
- [62:47]
A
Okay. Yeah. October, fall. Yeah, I'll definitely watch this one.
- [62:51]
B
Me too. I'll see this in theaters. Unless it's like, I will hunt somebody.
- [62:54]
A
It's going to be in theaters.
- [62:55]
B
Yeah. I will hunt somebody down to see an early screening of this.
- [62:59]
A
Oh, I'm sure you're first on the list.
- [63:00]
B
My friends in my mahjong group have been like, can I be your plus one if you get invited to this? And I was like, no, sorry, you cannot. Because Grace needs to be my plus one to this. And we've already talked about this that she's like, I will fly up for this.
- [63:14]
A
That's amazing.
- [63:15]
B
We started this together, we will end this together.
- [63:19]
A
It's going to be a journey.
- [63:21]
B
So everything we've talked about so far is things that have release dates. But I did just need to talk about one piece of news that came out earlier this week that I think people will be excited about. So earlier this week, Amazon did their upfronts and they announced that the fourth wing adaptation has a series pickup. They have like a green light to start production. I am. First of all, Michael B. Jordan's production company is spearheading this. It was like him and Rebecca Yarros and then a woman who's like the showrunner and a woman who's like directing the first episode. And I was like, this is a weird pairing of people. But I am so curious about this because Romantasy has been so huge in the book world and it has not really been tested on screen because it's going to be so expensive. The budget on this show, if it's done well, is going to be astronomical. You gotta make dragons and the dragons are not a little bit of it. They're a lot of it.
- [64:21]
A
Yeah. And they have to talk.
- [64:23]
B
They have to talk like, this show is going to be so expensive. So there's this guy in the off campus adaptation and his name is Josh Houston and he's an Australian actor. And there are all these rumors around him. I can't quite tell if there's rumors that he's actually been tapped or if fans just want him to be. But there are a lot of rumors around him being cast as Zaden in the fourth wing adaptation. And this man is like hauntingly beautiful, like light eyes, dark hair. I can see it.
- [64:57]
A
Yes. I just looked him up. Yeah, he does look like him. Oh, that would be.
- [65:01]
B
Although I can see that it's like canonically unclear. I feel like Rebecca Yarrows has said, like, Zaden is not white.
- [65:09]
A
Oh.
- [65:09]
B
But then in a lot of the fan art, he's white. And it's like, well, what is his ethnic? Is he black? Like, I don't know what he is. So I don't know how they will handle casting him.
- [65:20]
A
Interesting. Well, I'm sure people will be very excited about that.
- [65:24]
B
Yeah. I'm so excited to see if this opens the floodgates for, like, Sarah J. Maas books. Like so many of the other popular Romantasy series that have not made it to television yet. I assume because it's just such a financial commitment to make any of these shows.
- [65:39]
A
Yeah. Such an undertaking. But if any anything has the fandom behind it. I mean, fourth wing, truly.
- [65:47]
B
Thank you for going down this, this road with me. This was fun. Maybe we should do this like once a year.
- [65:52]
A
Yes, I know there's a lot of big ones coming out next year as
- [65:55]
B
well, so there's also. We didn't. I didn't even put it in here, but apparently I think it's supposed to come out this Christmas. There's two romances that are being adapted as holiday movies. So first in a Holidaze by Christina Lauren, which is a holiday book, is being adapted. But then also they're turning the Bodyguard by Katherine center into a holiday movie.
- [66:18]
A
Oh, okay. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah.
- [66:21]
B
With Jared Padalecki and Leighton Meester.
- [66:24]
A
Oh yeah, I did see something about that. That's very cool.
- [66:27]
B
Okay, maybe we should do this like twice a year.
- [66:30]
A
Yeah, that would be great. Okay.
- [66:31]
B
You let us know if you like it. I liked it, but it's not just about me.
- [66:34]
A
I know. I have a bunch of movies to watch.
- [66:36]
B
I know. Well, talk to me about obsessions. What are you obsessed with?
- [66:44]
A
I'm obsessed with this four episode docu series on HBO called the Dark wizard, which is about this professional climber named Dean Potter. And he's this very troubled sort of figure in the free soloing community. So if you're familiar with Alex Honnold, he kind of does the same thing, but he also does slack lining with no ropes and base jumping. Yeah, it's like, it's a lot.
- [67:15]
B
Why don't you like living?
- [67:18]
A
I know. And that's kind of how I felt about it when I started watching it. I think both him and Alex Honnold, although maybe more Alex Honnold, who is the guy who did free solo. There's just like kind of a smugness and also I'm like, how can you, you do that to the people who love you? Like you're putting your life on the line like this in such a blatant way. Why not just use a rope for Christ's sake? Like, it just feels so ridiculous to me in a lot of ways and unnecessary. But I have to say that over the course of this documentary, which is paced so well that it like, it is like a. It is truly such a narrative and I knew from the very beginning how it ends and I still felt so compelled to keep going because it really is this deep dive into who this guy was and all the ways that he was so incredibly flawed. But by the end of it, I really kind of understood what was weirdly beautiful about what he was doing in this strange way. Like, I would never choose to do it. I think there's a lot of problematic things. Like he went BASE jumping with his dog, which I'm like, that dog did not deserve to be in that backpack. It doesn't know what's happening.
- [68:27]
B
Oh, no.
- [68:28]
A
The dog lived. The dog. But, like, you know, there could have been an accident anyway. Very, very complicated person. I don't know. It just. It made me think about a lot of things, about life and art in a different way. And it was so well done. And I cried and. Yeah, it's really like your heart is pounding the whole time. It's so much. It's so much. I highly suggest it. Okay, what are you obsessed with?
- [68:52]
B
Much less pulse pounding. Although I guess if you eat too much, maybe it could be equally pulse pounding. I made at home fried buffalo chicken cutlets this week, and I am so impressed with myself. So I had people over for mahjong on Monday. And I was saying, like, I feel more adventurous in the kitchen having a dishwasher. Like, it feels lower stakes. And so I've had this recipe saved for literally, probably years. It's from a newsletter called Saturday Table, and it's Buffalo chicken cutlets. The breading is chips, and it has, like, a ranch celery slaw on top.
- [69:30]
A
I made this so good.
- [69:32]
B
It was insane. It was so good. And I never fried something at home before. And I was very proud of myself that I did it successfully. I had a thermometer, like a oil thermometer. But it was not difficult. It was overwhelming. Cause I'd never done it before, but it was not hard.
- [69:50]
A
It looks incredible. I'm looking at the photos now, and it's just so many things I love in one image.
- [69:55]
B
It was so, so good. It was so, so good.
- [69:58]
A
That looks amazing.
- [69:59]
B
So if you're feeling adventurous in the kitchen, we'll link the recipe in the show notes. Okay, we have to loop back. We both had books that we were really obsessed with that we were reading last week, but we hadn't finished. How did you net out?
- [70:11]
A
Oh, I loved it. I loved it so much. I read. I finished. Yes. Almost Life by Kieran Millwood Hargrave. This is a novel about two women that meet in Paris in the 70s. And it spans the next 30 years or so. And it's all about their friendship and their romance and the different paths that their lives take. By the title, you might get a sense of, like, some of the themes, but it's so beautiful and atmospheric. And the first section is, like I said, it's in the 70s in Paris, so there are no cell phones and it's a very like, screen free version of Paris. And everything is like hot and steamy and sweaty and there's good food everywhere and everyone's smoking and it's just so atmospheric, so lush and delicious and romantic and sexy. Oh, it's just. It's one of my favorite things I've read in so long. It was wonderful.
- [71:17]
B
What endorsement?
- [71:19]
A
Yeah, it was. Oh, I can't wait to read her other books too. But I actually saw this because I saw some people mention it in the Baton paper group and talk about it positively. But beyond that, I hadn't heard that much. I do think it was a book of the Month pick, but I just had this weird spidey sense that I would love it. Maybe because of the title. Like, it's just. There's something about title that's very me and my interest, but I can't recommend this enough. I don't think that this is a book that every single person will love. I think there is a sort of. It's not your typical romance where you get a clean resolution, a clean plot. It's very circular in some ways, but it made me want to go back in time and get rid of air conditioning and be in Paris surrounded by smoke, which is really not a thing I've ever craved in any way. Like just to be sweating without air conditioning. But it's so wonderful. It's like I felt like I was living within this universe. Like I could feel, feel everything. Any I could go on.
- [72:17]
B
I gotta read this.
- [72:18]
A
Oh, yeah. Talk about a literary romance. Like, oh, man, it. I didn't want it to end. Like, I truly, truly savored this book in a way that I have not savored a book in a really long time.
- [72:27]
B
Oh, I'm so happy for you.
- [72:29]
A
Well, you tell me, what did you read?
- [72:31]
B
So I finished Take Me with youh by Stephen Rowley. And this is a book about a man whose husband goes missing in an apparent alien abduction. And the earthbound spouse must kind of like learn to, well, grapple with that and learn to go on without him. And Stephen Rowley is one of my favorite authors. He wrote the Gunkle, he wrote the Celebrants. He's like, he's so funny on the page. I love him as an author. I loved this book. However, the ending did not quite land for me, so I enjoyed the journey. I do not regret reading it. But it didn't. The pitch is very good together for me.
- [73:12]
A
The hook is very, very good.
- [73:14]
B
Yes.
- [73:14]
A
Because I have a lot of questions already. I could see it. Talk about like a high concept. Totally idea. Okay. Do you think some people would like the ending? Like, do you think it's like, you can understand why this would really work for people?
- [73:26]
B
I'm not sure. I'm gonna have to farm that out to the listeners to tell me if you read this, what you think.
- [73:32]
A
All right. Well, I'm. I'm kind of interested.
- [73:35]
B
There you go.
- [73:36]
A
Just by that.
- [73:37]
B
But we also have our book club next week, which is, I think the most enthusiastic I've ever seen our listeners be about a book club. So we are reading into the Blue by Emma Brody, which is a second chance romance about these two misfit teens who meet working at a video store when they're kids and bond over their shared love of improv comedy. And just as something romantic is about to happen, he disappears. And then they come back into each other's lives as adults as they're both trying to make their way in the entertainment industry. I cannot wait to talk about this. Have you started it yet?
- [74:16]
A
No, I'm saving it for when we get closer because I have a feeling I'll read it very fast.
- [74:21]
B
Okay, well, we'll be discussing that next week, so please join us for that.
- [74:25]
A
If you want to talk to us about any of the things we have discussed today. Any book to TV movie adaptation news your interested in, you can join us in the Facebook group which is under Bow and paper podcast. We are also chatting in our BFF group under badonpaper podcast. You can follow us on Instagram adonpaper podcast and I am on Instagram and substack and everywhere else at oliviamentor and
- [74:51]
B
I'm on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter is at Becca Freeman substack.com and I have a new book coming out in October called Back where we started and I would love it if you considered pre ordering it. We'll see you next week.
- [75:05]
A
Bye.
- [75:05]
B
Bye.