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- [00:18]
A
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Baton Paper podcast. I'm Becca Freeman.
- [00:22]
B
And I'm Olivia, mentor.
- [00:23]
A
And today we have a Bat on Paper all star. A bat on paper legend. I don't know what, I don't know what would be an icon in the Baton Paper universe. We're rejoined by Robin Lee, who has her second novel coming out after the Idea of youf. And we're talking to her all about what it was like for her book to catch fire two years after it came out. What it was like for the idea of you to become a movie and for people to all of a sudden associate Anne Hathaway, a very a list actress with this fake person that she created in her head. And we're also talking all about her new book. So I'm so excited for that conversation. But first, Olivia, tell me your high.
- [01:08]
B
My high is that it was perfect weather all weekend and I had an afternoon where I just sat in the hammock and I read my book and it was the perfect temperature. It was not too sunny, but it was just sunny enough. The sun was coming through the leaves above me. So it was like illuminating the book. But I didn't have to squint. I wasn't getting sunburned. I just decided it was one of the, like, top five reading locations of all time.
- [01:33]
C
Wow.
- [01:34]
B
You know, it's like in a pool, facing an ocean. I know you love that.
- [01:38]
A
Yep, that's my number one.
- [01:39]
B
Sitting on a beach, curled up by a fire hammock. Do you have any spots you want to add to the list? Your own personal list?
- [01:48]
A
I really like reading on a train. Not a subway train, like a long distance train.
- [01:54]
B
That's a good one.
- [01:55]
A
Ideally, you're looking out the window at some type of, like, beautiful view.
- [02:00]
B
Yeah, I just did that this afternoon coming back from the city and it was, it was lovely. And we were delayed for an hour and I just sat there and I thought, well, thank God I have a book. So there you go. Well, what's your high?
- [02:11]
A
My high this week is the direct antithesis to last week's low, which was that I was just feeling overwhelmed by my to do list. And this week I feel caught up and really on top of things and in a really good flow with book writing. I think that yesterday I just hit the 50% mark. I obviously don't know how long or short the second half will be, but, like, scene wise, I think I hit the 50% mark. And, yeah, I feel like I'm picking up steam. I've been working on this Draft for three months. And I feel like I'm kind of like the wheels are turning, both word count wise and also motivation wise. And I just. I feel really good.
- [02:51]
B
Well, congratulations. Halfway Mark is huge. Momentum huge, huge. I mean, there's no better feeling than that. Sort of racing downhill, like flow state. That's so exciting.
- [03:05]
A
So exciting. What about on the low side? Do you have anything to bring us this week?
- [03:09]
B
I don't really. I don't think I do.
- [03:12]
A
Okay.
- [03:12]
B
What about you?
- [03:14]
A
Not really. Did I tell you about my mirror that arrived broken?
- [03:17]
B
No, but that is such a bummer.
- [03:20]
A
I was so annoyed because I over vacation, I'd ordered this big mirror for my living room from Zara home, kind of a random place to buy a mirror from. And they had sent me an email being like, to schedule my delivery. And none of the options worked for me. They were all while I was away, so. So I was like, okay, I'll just wait and either while I'm away or when I'm on my way back, I'll schedule the delivery. And they just took it upon themselves to deliver it anyway. So they delivered it while I was gone. It was supposed to be like in home delivery where they unpackage it. Like, I paid extra for it. I don't know that I was given an option, but I did pay extra for it. And instead I get this call when I'm in Italy and the guy's like, I dropped off your mirror. And I was like, like, I'm not there. Can you not leave it? Because I was like, I don't know if he's leaving it in the lobby, if he's leaving it outside my door. I was like, this just seems really annoying. And he's like, I already left it. And he was like, I left. And I was like, oh, okay, great. So then I get home, I have this huge mirror waiting for me, and I open it up and the thing has a crack right down the center of the mirror.
- [04:26]
B
Oh, that's the worst. And now do you have to return it or.
- [04:30]
A
Thankfully, no. That's what I was afraid of because I was like, I don't even think I can get this thing back in the box. Like, it was so unwieldy. And so for a while, I had both the box and the mirror sitting in my hallway because I was like, am I going to need this box? How the heck am I going to repackage this? But thankfully, they were pretty easy to deal with, customer service wise. Actually, not over email. They didn't respond to me. But When I called them, they were fine and they're just sending a replacement and I can just get rid of the old one. I was kind of like, the frame is really cool. And I was kind of like, I feel like somebody can make a cool arts and crafts thing with this. It feels a shame to throw out. And then I was like, but I'm not that person. So we're just going to hope that the street corner gods unite this mirror with the right crafter.
- [05:17]
B
I know, obviously you could do Facebook Marketplace. Could you do the thing where you posted on Facebook Marketplace and you say it's on the street? Whoever gets there first takes it. Just so like, it's not going to get thrown away. Or do you not know?
- [05:29]
A
It's already gone. It's in the universe's hands.
- [05:32]
B
Someone has it. Someone's making the most of it. I hope, I hope, I hope.
- [05:37]
A
I think my new one is supposed to arrive this week, so I'm hopeful that this one at least I'm here to like. If it is broken, I can refuse delivery instead of having it become my problem.
- [05:49]
B
Is this like a mirror you hang on the wall? Is this like a full length mirror? What are. What are we talking?
- [05:55]
A
It is both. It is a full length mirror, but it is also one that needs to be mounted on the wall.
- [05:59]
B
Okay. Is this for your bedroom hallway?
- [06:02]
A
It's for my living room. It's for my living room. And it is. It's heavy. Like, I don't know specifically, but I want to say that this thing is like £60. Like, it's not a light mirror.
- [06:13]
B
Well, so hopefully, let's hope it works.
- [06:15]
A
Mirror Take 2 is better, but at least I will be home for it.
- [06:19]
B
Yes, that's a step in the right direction for sure.
- [06:21]
A
Well, let's take a quick ad break and let's get to this conversation with Robin.
- [06:30]
B
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- [07:02]
A
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- [07:25]
B
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- [08:18]
A
We are so excited to have Robin Lee back with us today. She is the best selling author of the Idea of youf, which has been translated into two dozen languages and adapted into a record breaking feature film for Amazon Studios. Lee is also an actress and producer with numerous credits in both television and film. A graduate of Yale University and Columbia Law School, she's lived in New York and Los Angeles and now resides in Paris with her husband and two children. And Crash Into Me, which comes out on July 7, is her second novel. Welcome Back, Robyn.
- [08:50]
C
Hello. Thank you for having me. It's great to be back.
- [08:53]
A
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to catch up with you on the air. Last time you were on the podcast was 2019.
- [08:58]
C
I know, I know.
- [09:00]
A
Different world. You were in New York City.
- [09:03]
C
I was in New York City, yeah.
- [09:05]
A
Or you came specifically for the recording.
- [09:08]
C
I came for the recording.
- [09:09]
A
I was laughing at myself this morning because I honestly don't think that Grace and I knew how to use Zoom yet. We were such sweet pre pandemic children. We were like, the only way you can be on this podcast is if you come to Grace's dining room table.
- [09:25]
C
But she had that beautiful bar cart and I was like, it's worth it.
- [09:29]
B
Yes.
- [09:31]
A
And in between then and now, you have lived this kind of writer fantasy where your book had this meteoric growth two years after its release. And for our listeners who might not know, I think the conventional wisdom is that a book kind of like lives and dies on its first two weeks, but if it doesn't pop, then it's kind of done for.
- [09:53]
C
Oh my God, that sounds so, so depressing.
- [09:56]
A
It's so depressing.
- [09:57]
C
Don't think of it that way. No, no, we're not going to go the way of movies. And I feel like that's what Hollywood says. And like, I feel like books, the beauty of books is that I think it's so much of it's word of mouth. I mean, I feel like the people who read books and love books love to share it. If they're really enjoying it, they love to share it with the people they know and love. And they know, love books. And I think that it happens. It takes a little longer than two weeks, I think.
- [10:23]
A
Yes. I mean, one of my love languages is recommending books, so I totally identify with that.
- [10:28]
C
Yeah.
- [10:29]
A
But your book had this meteoric rise, especially during the pandemic. It became a movie. Catch us up since the last time we talked to you in 2019. I want to hear anything you want to tell us about how that experience felt for you.
- [10:43]
C
We'd signed the deal to have it optioned or someone, someone optioned it. Pretty sure optioned it prior to the meteoric rise. But I think bad on paper was very helpful in 2019. Like, I feel like things just started. I really feel like it was. There's this old commercial from when I was like really little called Faberge for like a shampoo or conditioner, whatever it was. And it was like a beautiful blonde. Like it was the era of Charlie's Angels. And she's like. And she's like, I told two friends and they told two friends and so on and so on. It would like multiply. So they were like. And I really felt like it was like that, like it would just grow and grow and grow. And I kind of felt like it was a kind. It was that type of book that if enough people read it and told their friends about would reach like a tipping point, which is what happened during the pandemic. And then during the pandemic, it got a write up in Oprah Daily. It got a wonderful write up in Vogue by Michelle Ruiz. And that's when things really started happening. They'd written a script that the producer, the producers were happy with and they were able to sign on Anne Hathaway with that script and with the kind of momentum of the book and you know, all this buzz worthy piece on it. So that happened and the movie got made and came out in 2024. It was Amazon's biggest film of 2024. It was like the most dreamed trailer, most dreamed film. Like it was. It was just breaking a lot of records and did incredibly well. I'd moved with my family after the pandemic. We moved to France. We moved to Paris in July 1st will be our anniversary. July 1st, 2022 and we will be here for now. I've been here for four years and it fly, it really flies by because my French is not any better. I speak very good French but it's not where I want it to be. So yeah, it was just like a lot happening at once. I've had a huge change. Everything's shifted. I used to live in la. We were on the west side in this beautiful town and this gorgeous house, mid century house up in the hills in the Pacific Palisades. And now that is gone. It's all gone. It burned in the fires and so many of my friends homes are gone. So I just feel like so much has changed. I think for many reasons. I feel like we left at the right time. I'm really happy to be here but I feel like with things like in LA and the acting strike and just a lot of things have just shifted and I kind of feel like we got out at the right time. Especially with the fire. Like when I think about what's happened with the fires and so many people I know losing everything, like everything. So we were lucky. So I've been here writing and you know, raising a family. I mean my kids are quite big now but like. So I'm just drinking in Paris and I'm living my like James Baldwin fantasy. I. I live in a really beautiful area in a great apartment that dates from the 1890s and everything is walkable and wonderful except for like this week because it's 105 degrees and nothing has air conditioned. But besides that it's a dream, it's magical and I'm so happy to be here.
- [14:10]
A
That sounds like such a romantic writing life. Although I know there is the grind of sitting down and looking at the cursor.
- [14:18]
C
Absolutely that still that follows you no matter where you are. Unfortunately.
- [14:24]
A
I want to talk about the new book, but before we get to that I want to know about the movie and how has that affected how you see those characters in your head? Like when you picture Solene and Hayes now in your head, do you see Anne and Nick or do you see other people? Are they faceless to you?
- [14:44]
C
They're still my people, but they were always a little faceless to me, which is a very weird thing to say. I don't know how you feel about your characters.
- [14:53]
A
I feel the same way. I could describe attributes.
- [14:56]
C
Yeah, I feel like I'm When I'm writing, I'm kind of inside of them, and so I can't see my face, which is kind of weird. And they show.
- [15:04]
A
I don't think that's weird.
- [15:06]
B
I feel the same exact way. Do you like, exactly that. I'm, like, inside. I can, like, see the world through their eyes, and therefore I cannot see their face.
- [15:15]
C
Right, Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Like, if someone would be like, oh, this is Haze or this is Sill. I'm like, there's elements, like, maybe his hair looks like that, but that's not really him, you know, like, their voices are so specific. The smells are like, everything about them are. Is so specific to me, and it's not. You know, I don't think they could have ever cast the people that, like. I felt like that's them, because it really is this. I don't know. You can't really put your finger on it, but I think if you're a writer, you understand that it's. It's something that's a part of you that really can ever be put out there truly as you've envisioned it.
- [15:57]
A
I was just so curious with just kind of the profile, especially of Anne Hathaway. Like, how does that affect kind of the very interior world that you've created?
- [16:09]
C
I'd ask that. So I was an actress in Fifty Shades, Freed and Fifty Shades Darker. And I asked Erica EL James when she. Because she was still writing then, like, she was writing Christian's Point of View, like, Freed, Darker. I forgot what the other one was before that, but she was. Yeah, she wrote three books after the first three, which were all his perspective. And I asked her, like, when you're writing, do you picture, like, Jamie and Dakota, or is it something completely different? And she's like, absolutely not. Like, I have them in my head specifically, and that's who I will always picture. And so I thought, okay, that's good. Because I remember thinking, if I ever go back to them, I don't want it to be too. To shift from who they are in my head. Cause it's so. They're so full and alive for me. I don't want them to become somebody else. And if it sounds weird, but, yeah, as a writer, you kind of want to hold onto that. And so that makes me happy.
- [17:07]
A
Me too.
- [17:08]
C
Yeah.
- [17:09]
B
Can I ask you what it's like to talk about a book for so long? Obviously, we're gonna talk about your new book, but there's still such a huge fandom. Discovering the book, discovering the movie. What does it feel like beyond the fact that, of course, it's every author's dream in a lot of ways.
- [17:27]
C
Right.
- [17:28]
B
How is that?
- [17:29]
C
Well, it taught me to write about something you love and you're gonna be comfortable talking about for the next five to 10 years. But I did. I mean, I love that story, and I love talking about all the themes in that book and why I wrote it. And I love those characters and talking about them, and they are endlessly interesting to me. And even the peripheral, like, Lulit and Daniel and Isabel, like, all those characters, the guy, Ollie and Liam and Rory. And, like, they're all very alive and specific to me. And it was such an intense experience. I wrote it, like, in real time. It was taking place over the course of a year, and from the time I started it in late April 2014 and finished it in July 2015, and the story goes from April to April 2014 to 2015, and I was never more than three months behind on the calendar, so I was writing around the clock. And because I was so consumed with. Felt like I was living it in a way that I haven't with anything else I've written. And I felt like it was a relationship. Like, I went on this wild roller coaster of relationship with this guy, and we've since broken up, and people keep, like, digging it up and like, hey, let's talk about that guy again. And you're like, ah, Harvey's like. I'm like, I'm not. I just got over him. You want to go back into it?
- [18:56]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [18:57]
C
So it's.
- [18:57]
B
It's so funny you say that, because I always just like past books as kind of like a relationship that ended happily. And I'm like, okay, but I'm really excited about this new thing, this next thing.
- [19:08]
C
Right.
- [19:08]
B
And, yeah, it's hard. And so for you writing this new thing and then also having to do so much press for the other thing
- [19:18]
C
for the old thing. Right. Exactly.
- [19:19]
B
How have you held both of those things where you just don't simultaneously? I don't.
- [19:23]
C
Yeah. And I remember writing, I did a lot of press for when the movie was coming out, and I just finished my, like, initial draft that I sent off to my agents of Crash Into Me and then had to go and do all this idea of you press. And I remember thinking, I'm so used to talking about Hayes and Solene in this story. I feel like, will I ever remember what the experience was like writing Crash Into Me? Because I feel like I was talking about the idea of the entire time I was writing Crash. So if you ask me, like, where were you when you wrote this scene? Like, there's some scenes I definitely remember, like, like really monumental things and specific things. But I wrote it the first, maybe third of it or so in when I was still in LA, and then the last 2/3 in Paris or like on vacation, whatever. Like, I did some in New England and I did some in London, but after I'd moved and it. Because it was so stretched out, it didn't feel like as immediate, I guess. I don't know. I don't want to say it didn't feel, but it does. I mean, it feels. It feels intimate because I know you're going to ask me questions and I know that it's going to feel like, you know, another thing I did with. With somebody else and digging that all up, it's just. It's weird. It's a very weird thing. And they live in different parts of your brain and I hope I never forget it entirely and I hope I never lose that. The visceral response I have, like, when I talk about those people, because they're, they're people to me. They're not just like characters or like, I hope I always am able to connect to who they are or were to me.
- [20:53]
A
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the writing of Crash Into Me, because as readers, there's a big break between your novels. The idea of you came out in 2017 and now we're getting crash into me nine years later. Yeah. Were you working on this project the entire time? Were you working on other books that you tried and set aside? I mean, you're also quite the multi hyphenate. So did other projects just take precedence? Like, what was that? Like, what was your writing life like in between the two books?
- [21:24]
C
So I had about three years of complete writer's block. Like I couldn't write anything. I felt paralyzed in many ways. Like I'd start writing something and everything just felt false or like. Or like I didn't even know how to structure a sentence. It took forever. It's like, what is this? Like, I'd be writing and then there'd be a sentence that says, this is complete and utter crap. No one's going to believe it. I don't believe it. And then I tried to write some more, but it's like I'd forgotten how to write. And part of that was, I think, the publishing experience. It's really weird to put yourself out there in that way and be judged in a certain way, and then knowing that people are watching or reading or going to expect something. And I was no longer just writing for myself, like, the idea of you. I was writing for myself. Like, yeah, I was looking forward to sharing it with my writers group and with my sister and, like, my beta readers. But I was really like, this is just, like, my story that I loved. Like, I was obsessed with doing it for me. But now I'm writing, and I'm writing with all these people in mind, like my agent, my editor, like, my attorney, my. Like, my readers, my. Like, the people who love the idea of you, how are they going to feel about this? And do I want. How much do I want to connect it to the old book or how much I want to be similar to the idea of you so that they feel a thread or a way into it, because it's a very different story. But I wanted it to still feel like, oh, this is a Robin Lee book. Like, this is a Robin Lee world, and the worlds are, you know, they cross over. But then I thought, am I thinking that too much and not just allowing the story to be the story? And, like, I'm trying to please too many people. I should just try to please me. And it was really trying. So it took three years just to kind of find a story that I felt would work. I had a couple of others that I'd started and I put aside, and one of them I've reworked enough that I'm going back to, and that's what I'm focusing on next. But I just kind of felt like I wasn't ready or it was gonna be too similar to the idea of you. And I wanted to do something very different. I wasn't 100% sure that it was anything new that I wanted to tell. Like, am I telling the same story with different characters, or am I, you know, playing. Is it the same themes? And have I hit on all the, you know, the ideas about sexism or, like, ageism or things like that? Like, how do I. I don't want this to be a repeat. Like, I don't want this to be the second idea of you, even with different characters. So it was really difficult for me to find it, what I wanted to tell and then find those characters voices. Cause I wanted. They had to be different to me. And then just the writing just, you know, there was a lot going on politically and the pandemic and, you know, my kids and being in. My kids being, like, really tricky ages and then moving to another country. And so there was just a lot that kind of slowed me down. Yeah, we moved here and we had nothing. Like, I didn't. We got rid of all our, most of our, all but one piece of furniture and like big items and I mean we had like 68 pockets that we had shipped. But we really, I had to like build a home. We had nothing. And so that took a long time to kind of, you know, find my place and feel like a home and getting my kids settled in new school. So there are all these little things that kind of kept me from just writing around the clock in the way that I did with the idea of you. So it was more drawn out and. But I also like living with characters for a longer period of time. Like part of the heartbreak of me of ending the idea of you, that I was leaving those characters and I'd been with them, it's been such an intense year or for us, 15 months that I'd spent with them that it was hard to say goodbye. But this was like, okay, I've like good five years with these guys and I'm like, I'm ready to let you guys go and move on and start with the next book. So that's where I am.
- [25:16]
A
Well, speaking of the next book, can you give us the pitch for Crash Into Me?
- [25:21]
C
Yes. So Crash Into Me is a story of Cecilia Chen, who is this 40 something Jamaican Chinese artist, a photographer who was raised in the States but fled America about 20 years before the story starts. She's living in Paris with her French filmmaker husband and their two kids. And her husband gets a really big high profile gig shooting a trilogy in Hollywood and they pick up and they move to Los Angeles to the west side of LA in this very wealthy, privileged enclave. And so it's kind of like a reverse culture shock because she's going back to America after 20 years of living in Europe. And very early on in the story she runs into someone from her past, quite literally runs into, quite literally in a car accident. And they develop this very intense and complex relationship that threatens to upend her entire life. And it's another woman. And so it's a story about identity and sexuality and, and desire as well as class and wealth and privilege and I would say art and beauty and betrayal. I think it's, I think that's all the things. I mean, there's, you know, I always put in motherhood, there's fame, there's, you know, celebrity and wealth and all that stuff and then the darker side of that. But yeah, those are the main themes. It's layered and it's sexy, but it's also more literary and more complex. And there's a lot going on in her life and she's trying to. Cecilia's trying to figure herself out. So it was, you know, a joy to kind of like peel back all these layers and figure out who this woman was. And I love writing stories that are like, complex stories for women of a certain age. Like women over 40 and women who are like, you know, that often in media we try to. We tend to write off, like, we kind of think that women go through a really rough time in like maybe mid to late 20s, early 30s when they're trying to find the person they're going to settle down with. But finding that person doesn't mean that everything is like easy peasy from then on in. Like, doesn't mean that there's not betrayal and affairs and like, you know, questions about who we are, how we grow, do we grow apart, how do we grow together, et cetera. And I like to write for that age group because I feel like there's not as much out there and there's not as much out there seeing us as like, sexually viable and exploring those different parts of ourselves that we kind of like we see in books. And it's often, you know, it's 20 something women or the height of their sexuality and their, and their feminism and. And that's not true. Like, we're still totally sexual beings in our 40s. And so I kind of like looking at that and exploring it and putting it out there for other women to realize. And like, maybe this is your story and you haven't seen it yet and you want to feel like you're not done at 35, you know.
- [28:35]
A
Yeah, I've been really excited about some of the opening in the romance genre where we're starting to see some older protagonists. And, you know, I know Annabelle Monah almost exclusively covers kind of older and a lot of times post divorce heroines. And then I recently read One and Only by Maureen Goo, which I thought was such a fantastic portrayal of a woman who's turning 40 and has never been married and isn't kind of a mess. I think there's a lot of times a messiness to romance heroines of like, they need to get their act together. And that's kind of the personal story.
- [29:11]
C
Exactly, exactly.
- [29:12]
A
Alongside the romance. And this was a character who, you know, had a really gorgeous and was in a great place in her career and it wasn't coming from a lack. And I really appreciated reading that.
- [29:24]
C
Yeah, Cause I feel like if we continue to create stories that don't have that, we start to think, well, something's missing, I'm not doing something right. And that's why I haven't found the right one, whoever that being is. And maybe I'm not whole if I don't have him or whatever it is, or if I just, you know, got my finances in order or figured out my career, then everything would just happen and maybe. But maybe not. And that's important to, like, explore all of that.
- [29:49]
A
So you just laid quite a bit on us in terms of the different things that this book covers. What was the seedling of inspiration for this book? Like, what came to you first and made you excited to explore this idea?
- [30:01]
C
So there were a few things. I'd worked on a version of Cecilia's story and Laurie, who was her boyfriend in the 90s before writing the Idea of youf, I'd worked on it for like six years and I couldn't get it quite to where I wanted it to be. And it all took place. It was like a 30 something, 40 something woman looking back at this one relationship in her 20s. But I couldn't quite get it to where I wanted to be. So I set it aside and then two years later I wrote the Idea of youf. And because Cecilia was an artist in that book, when I was looking to populate Selene and Lilit's roster of clientele, I'd use mostly either artists I knew who existed, who fell into that category of either artists of color or female artists, and who let me use their name and their likeness, or I'd made up completely fictional people. But I was looking to make up some. A person, a character. And I knew I was going to give her a full scene. And I didn't want to use someone I actually knew because it's going to be a fictional character. I thought, okay, I can make something up. And I thought, oh, what if I just use Cetilia? Because I know exactly who that artist is, I know that woman, I know that character. Let's just. I'll just throw her in there thinking that was it. I gave Cecilia a small, A very. A cameo in the idea of you, and I'd forget about it. But when I was looking back at what I wanted to do, I thought, you know, I never really got this story to where I wanted it to be. What if I were to go back and explore Cecilia's story? And what if it picks up from that moment, the day that she's supposed to meet Selene and Lilit, and then we just go off and Revere and we see her story versus Selene's story. And so that's what I did. And in 2016, while I was in that, doing edits for St. Martin's Press for the idea of it. So we'd sold it, but it wasn't. We weren't complete, actually. I think the arc was done. I think the arc was done, but the actual book was not out yet. I was in a really terrifying car accident, precisely like the one that's featured in the book. And I was. It was a. Like a Tuesday morning. I guess I just come from dropping my kids off at school. I was going to a coffee shop, our regular coffee shop. I was meeting my husband there. There was a woman who was getting into her car because she. And right in front of the coffee shop, and I was going to park there, so I pulled over and stopped my car. And she was getting in. And out of nowhere, I was hit from behind. And someone with such impact that my car slammed into her car, like, tore her door off of the hinge, like, pinned it back against the wheel. And I do not know how, but it was a miracle. But she stepped out, like, just within, like, the last second. But, I mean, I thought. I thought I'd killed her. Like, I didn't want to look up because I did not know. I didn't know what I was going to see. And it was a miracle that she was not injured at all, that I was not injured, and that the woman who hit me was not injured. And the three of us, because our cars were all had to be towed, were out there for, like, I don't know, an hour, comforting each other and, like, hugging each other. And we're like, it's okay. We're all okay. We're fine. And the woman who hit me, her husband came to the scene, and he was watching us, and he just started to smile. And I was like, what's so funny? And he's like, this would never happen if it were three men. Like, we'd be like. We would be, like, blaming each other, attacking each other. Like. And you guys are, like, hugging and, like, comforting each other. And I thought, God, that's such an interesting observation. And the more I thought of it, the more I thought, this is a scene in a book. Like, this is a movie or a book. And, like, this is, like, three lives coming together and intersecting in a way that was completely unexpected and violent and random. But if there was some kind of interesting connection that came out of this. That could be an interesting story. And so when I realized. When I figured I was gonna write about Cecilia, I thought, what if I put Cecilia in that car accident? And what happens then?
- [33:58]
A
Oh, wow. So I'm about a third of the way into Crash into me and enjoying it tremendously.
- [34:05]
C
I'm not giving away the ending then.
- [34:07]
A
Well, no, definitely don't do that. And, you know, as you were saying, there is some overlap. There's a female artist versus a gallerist. You're exploring fame. But there's also so much that's different. And I'm curious if there was pushback from your team on to do something so different. I know Ellen Hildebrand has talked a lot about how much pressure she got to do the same thing, but differently with her Nantucket novels. Was there any of that?
- [34:34]
B
No.
- [34:35]
C
I think because I waited so long, they were like, oh, we'll take it.
- [34:38]
B
Got it.
- [34:39]
C
Okay. Yeah. There wasn't. They were not. They did not push back.
- [34:46]
A
I'm heartened to hear that. But then I'm also. I was thinking this morning that there was almost maybe a propheticness to the idea of you because you pitched that into a market that was very much pre the contemporary romance boom that happened in 2018 with books like the Wedding Date by Jasmine Guillory or the Kiss Quotient by Helen Huang. Like, you were like, oh, I'm gonna write a contemporary romance where that genre didn't.
- [35:12]
C
Right.
- [35:12]
A
Wasn't it exist in the same way as it does today? So maybe they're just like, well, we trust.
- [35:17]
C
Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna lead the way. Everything's gonna be like this. Maybe I am the zeitgeist. Yeah, it was interesting. And then after the idea of you really hit and the film came out, suddenly there was like a flurry of other films with older women, younger men. And I got asked to talk about that and a lot, because mine was like one of the first stories or one of the first that got made into a film that had so much attention. And so I just write about what I think is interesting and hope the rest of the world follows along, I guess. I don't know. I mean, I feel, to me, there's so many similarities because of the art world, because of the fame role, because women are relatively same age and sexuality. It's glamorous. They're beautiful people. The sex is a little taboo or illicit. There's motherhood. And motherhood is, like, weighing on what? On the. You know, whether or not what they're doing is kosher, for lack of a better term. There is husband or ex husband in the story. There is. LA plays a big role, I think. And as I said, like, fame and glamour and that kind of world, like, for me, it feels so similar. I just made it slightly more literary. And I. And I think I did that because those are the books that I'm most drawn to. Like, I always say that I didn't write a romance with the idea of you. I wrote a love story because I. Until I wrote the Idea of youf, I wasn't reading romance at all. And I did not know there was a formula. I didn't know I wasn't trying to follow a formula. It wasn't something I read. But being in this world is. I've been. I've made so many friends now who write romance, and so I've read so many of their books. I've blurbed so many other books, and, you know, I've been on so many panels with them, so I've read a lot more. But for me, when I'm going for, like, my comfort reads are usually more where I like to go on a journey and not know where I'm going to end up. And I like to go on a journey with a character that's kind of different than I am, and that's how I'm going to learn something about that person's world. Those are typically the books that I'm drawn to. Sometimes there are love stories woven in there. Sometimes they're not. It's more about fish out of water and otherness, which is more, I think, what the story is. I love that. Like, that. I don't know. Those are. I like not knowing how I'm going to get from A to Z and what Z is even gonna be. You know, like, I'm reading a book now. I'm reading Lily King's Writers and Lovers, which I'm.
- [37:54]
A
Oh, my gosh. So fantastic.
- [37:56]
C
Enjoying immensely. But it's like, without giving too much away, there are two people that she's kind of dating, and I have no idea which way it's gonna go, how it's gonna end up. And I love that. I love that. For me, I love that. Like, it's gonna be a surprise. And so I don't know. That's what I'm drawn to. And I want to be able to kind of write what I like to read.
- [38:21]
A
You know, one book that I kept thinking about as I've been reading your book is, did you read Loved One by Aisha Muharro from last year.
- [38:29]
C
No, I have not.
- [38:30]
A
The pitch of it is an emotional mystery, which I was so compelled by that phrasing. And that book is very different. It's about a woman who's 30 and her best friend and former boyfriend dies very suddenly and she becomes obsessed with putting together what happened in the last month of his life and goes to London and kind of maybe ends up lightly stalking his ex girlfriend.
- [38:55]
C
Wow. Okay.
- [38:56]
A
But I was thinking a lot about the emotional mystery as a scaffolding for what you have here because there's kind of this like non scary, overarching mystery of like, what happened between Cecelia and her ex, what happened on this shoot in Cabo all those years ago between the two women. And I think that's such an. For me as a scaredy cat reader who's not usually reading a lot of books with dead bodies in them, like, there is something really compelling about a mystery that isn't scary.
- [39:28]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. Like, like, one of my favorite books about writing is On Writing by Stephen King. I've read it twice. It's. My issue is like complete, like, highlights, underline, whatever. It's so well done. It's so incredibly well done. I have not read any Stephen King novels because I saw the Shining when I was 11 years old. I saw it once. It lives rent free in my hand still. Like, there are things about that that, like, I mean, there were years I couldn't look in the mirror. I mean, like, I didn't want to look in the mirror. Like, like, unless there's someone else in the bathroom with me. Like, I was just terrified. I was terrified. It just stayed with me. Like, I do not like scary stories in that way, and yet I do, but I don't. And I read some.
- [40:15]
B
I think of it like suspense. I just always want suspense of some kind. No matter if it's a love story or a thriller or whatever. I just. There has to be some form of
- [40:25]
C
suspense for me, right? So when I was writing this, I read some suspense and some more like not really thriller, but scarier things. Like, I read some Gillian Flynn. I read the Paper palace by Miranda Kelly Heller, which I loved, loved, loved.
- [40:43]
B
That's one of my favorite books of all time.
- [40:45]
C
So good. It is so good. And I love that idea of kind of like not knowing what's going to happen. She's making a choice like you don't know and she's like taking you back through the history and what this deep secret she's been carrying like, they've been carrying. It's just so beautifully done. And I came across that while I was already writing Crash Into Me. And I was like, oh, I love that feeling. I love not knowing where the journey's gonna take me.
- [41:14]
B
Me, too. To go back to something you said a bit earlier about how you wanted this book to be more literary, it kind of sounds like you think of Becca and I talk about this all the time, by the way. What makes something literary? But it kind of sounds like you're saying that you kind of think of it more in terms of maybe structure or, like, I don't even think of it. Element of surprise. Or is it language? Or what were you thinking about when you were. When you were like, I want to make this more literary, or was it not a conscious decision?
- [41:42]
C
It wasn't a conscious decision. That's just kind of like how I write. I think it was a subject matter. Like, I don't feel like the structure is. I mean, yes, we go back and forth in time, but I don't think that necessarily makes things literary. There are definitely romances that go back and forth in time, but it was multiple things going on, and some of it was darker than just a love story, as you'll find out. Becca. Yeah, I guess. I guess that way. Like, it's so funny. Like, what I think of as. I don't even know what I think of as literary. I think. And I also think that I've lost
- [42:17]
A
the plot on this, too.
- [42:19]
C
I feel like literary is, I think, a lot of women's fiction. I read a lot of women's fiction, but also, like, fiction that has a male protagonist that feels similar to women's fiction is not called male fiction. You know, sometimes it's just called literary fiction. Like, I think about. And these are. Are completely different, but books that I've loved, like the Kite Runner, let's say, or Cutting for Stone, like Abraham Verghese. I don't know if those are even considered literary fiction, or they're just considered, like, upmarket book club or whatever it is. But it's the idea that it wasn't a love story at the crux of
- [42:53]
B
the narrative and that that kind of requires the happy ending.
- [42:58]
C
Yeah, right, exactly. And I don't think my language here is different from the idea of you. Like, I'm not. There are not words in here that, like, we would never have said that word in the idea.
- [43:07]
B
You know what I mean?
- [43:08]
C
Like, it's not. I didn't. Like, sometimes all my big words now, like, that It's. It's. They're similar to me in that respect.
- [43:14]
B
Yes.
- [43:16]
A
Well, they say that first books are often like books of the heart, and they tend to deal with plots and characters and themes that maybe are inspired by the author's life. But this second book feels so much more personal to me than the idea of you. It's about a woman moving between LA and Paris, which you just did in the reverse direction. It's about a woman grappling with her Jamaican Chinese heritage. And, you know, in the context of the racial landscape of la. Like, I'm curious about a projection on my part that this feels more personal, or does it feel more personal to you, too?
- [43:51]
C
No, it feels more personal to me as well. Yeah, for sure. Although the series of events are not personal, of course. It's just kind of like my experience is moving through the world, and I did not see. I do not see that portrayed often in literature. Romance, whatever. Women's fiction.
- [44:12]
A
Sure.
- [44:13]
C
And so I'd always wanted to write that, and I think that's what I was trying to write before, the idea of youf with this character. And I couldn't get it the right place. I couldn't sell it. Like, I couldn't. It was. One of the responses that I'd gotten originally for the story of Cecilia and Laurie was like, oh, well, we already have an interracial romance. We're not doing that again. And so I thought, okay, like, there's nothing like that. Kind of, like, crushing. Like, we don't care about what life is like for you. Falling in love to hear that was just kind of like, we've checked this box. That's fine. And so when I went to write the idea of you, I was like, okay, I'm not gonna give them any reason to say no to me. I'm gonna make. To me. She's. He was definitely gonna be British. He was definitely gonna be posh. She was definitely gonna be who Hayes Campbell is. But when I was trying to figure out who she was, I thought of her as somewhat ethnic, but, like, vaguely ethnic. Like, to me, she's like French and Algerian and not a mix that's going to be. I don't say problematic, but controversial, let's say moving through the spaces that she's moving through, like in the US or in the art world or anything that's going to call attention to it. And then I also wanted to describe her as vaguely as possible so as many readers could put themselves in her shoes, you know? So I kept, like, her very specific, like, her features are very vague. Like, I don't specifically describe. Like, I say that she's got a French mouth, but I don't say what a French mouth is. You know, like, things like that. I say that she's got olive skin. I don't. Whatever. She's got dark hair, dark eyes. Like, but I did that. So I thought lots of people can put themselves in her shoes, whether they are Mediterranean, which is kind of what she is, or Latina or Asian or black or white with brown hair or American, whatever. Like, a lot of women could be like, oh, that could be me. Like, not really. But with this one, I wanted to feel more specific about what it's like not looking, like, everyone around you all the time. And I've definitely. That's definitely been my experience. Like, the places that I've lived and the schools that I've gone to, the industries that I've been in, like, the world that I've navigated. Some of that's by choice, like, but it's definitely a feeling of otherness that kind of moves with me through these spaces constantly. I don't see that written in that way, in this way. I see it in things like, let's say, like, Jhumpa Laharilet's book, her stories about migrating from India and what that's like. And there is a lot of space given to, like. There's space given to the African American story. There's space given to Asian Americans and whatever, but, like, this very specific kind of West Indian. But, like, growing up in the state, but growing up in the States and then, like, have. Having to navigate these places that are, like, also kind of glamorous places. But you're not, like, you're not the underclass, you're not the working class, you're not the help. Like, what is it? What's that like? And that. I'm not seeing those stories. I wasn't seeing those stories. And I wanted also not to be like, what do they call it? Trauma porn. I don't want to be like, everything's awful. You know what I mean?
- [47:24]
A
Like, yeah, it sounds like you're. You're talking about, like, a lot of these other types of stories are told from an outsider lens, but this is really from an insider lens. But it's like, that doesn't erase the. Right. The differences.
- [47:38]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:39]
B
Is there one thing that you think this book has taught you either about yourself or writing?
- [47:46]
C
Well, that's a good question. I mean, I feel like there's a lot. There's a lot I took on in this book that I. I didn't think I'd be able to take on. And there's a Sapphic relationship at the heart of it, and I'd never written that. And I hadn't really lived that to that degree. And it was so much easier to tap into it than I thought, which was definitely a concerted effort. I was flooding, as I call it in psychology. I was flooding myself with photos of beautiful woman and sensual imagery and interviewing and research and whatever, but also my imagination. And it's really kind of amazing to be able to write something convincingly that you might not have experienced. But, I mean, I. Because I did a lot of that with the idea of you. I was kind of. I mean, you know, they say write what you know, but also, it would be really boring if we were just writing. We were all just writing stories about ourselves and different, like, over and over again. So, like, you can't kind of, like, get out of your, I don't know, your safety zone. Then I think you can become stuck. And I didn't want to be stuck. I wanted to try something new. And so that was surprising to me. And surprising how I always say that, like, when I'm writing love scenes or any kind of, like, relationship, the beginning is always the hardest. Like, because I'm still getting to know my characters. And then I'm getting to know the character that I'm inhabiting, but I'm also getting to know the character that I'm having sex with and how I'm having sex with that character as I'm inhabiting. Inhabiting somebody else. And none of that is me. It's all different people. So I think it's like three people in the bed. And so it's always really scary and daunting the first couple of times. And then it gets to a point, like, yeah, I know you, I know me, I know her. I know whatever. I know what we're doing, or I know him, or whatever it is. And by then, it's really. You know, at the end of it, you're like, sure. Like, I think my agent. And this might be the pushback. My agent was like, not my agent. My editor was like, if you could throw in a couple more sex scenes, I'd like to have one with this person, one with that. I was like, okay. But they're fun to me, and they're easy after you get to know your characters well enough, you know, and that's kind of. That's always a wonderful exploration and discovery, because in the Beginning, it's really daunting. And by the time you know them, it's like a real wonderful feeling of achievement that, like, I've got this. I know who. I know who these people are. I know I can write this with my eyes closed, as they say. I could be in a Starbucks with all this noise going on around me. I don't have to, like, set, you know, have the right music or a glass of wine. I just. I can just knock it out because I'm that comfortable with them. It is. It's becoming comfortable with strangers naked, is what it is. So there you go. So you both have, like, the big smiles on your face. I don't know what you're thinking.
- [50:43]
A
No, I totally relate to that. Not necessarily from the sex scene perspective, but I remember writing my second book and getting up to a certain point where there was a big fight between the characters, and I was like, I don't know how to make you fight yet because I don't know all of your baggage yet. And, like, kind of coming back to that scene multiple times. And when I finally wrote the version that is in the book, I was like, it felt electric and it felt so natural because you are kind of the third party, as you said, in the bed, where you're like, oh, yes. I intuitively understand this in a way that is very difficult, at least for me, in earlier passes of the book,
- [51:23]
C
before you kind of get there, really know them. Yeah, yeah.
- [51:27]
A
Well, to end on. I saw on threads that you are writing your third book. And I won't ask you to tell us about it or to pitch it, but I'm curious. You said that you're. I'm gonna mangle paraphrasing you, but you said that you're in this, like, great place with it where everything you read, a good meal, like, everything you see, you're like, oh, that's going in the book. Which is such a good feeling.
- [51:50]
C
It's such a great feeling. It's such a great feeling. Like, you travel, you go to a hotel, and you're like, oh, oh, this has to be here, because first of all, I get to come back and research it. But, like, yes, but, like, oh, I love this. I want to share this with the world, and I want to put these people in here because I know they would love it and they'd be happy here. It's. It's so great. And, like, you're. You're still picking up names and hair, eye color. Like, it's, like, going to be this color that, like, oh, things like that. Like, it's. Yeah, this is.
- [52:17]
A
It's a fun stage.
- [52:18]
C
It's a fun stage. It's fun building these worlds and these characters and making them real and watching them come to life. They start, like, inhabiting, like, becoming, like, something on their own. Like, I don't. I feel like right now I still have control. After a certain point, you no longer have control because they're telling this story. They become who they are. And then it's like, that's how the story is going to go because that's who they are. But now I can still. I'm still forming them, so it's kind of. It's.
- [52:43]
B
And no writer's bond this time.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah.
- [52:46]
B
We hope we wish this upon.
- [52:48]
C
Yeah, I think I'm okay. I mean, because I've been thinking about these guys since 2016, or at least a version of them. And so I have. I kind of know what I'm doing with them for sure and where I'm going with them and who they are, even though sometimes it changes a little bit. But we'll see. I'm hoping I will knock this out in at least a third of the time that it took me to get the last one out. So we'll see.
- [53:14]
A
Well, as one of your most enthusiastic readers, I can't wait. I need to be fed. So we need to be on a quicker cycle, which is this.
- [53:22]
C
Yeah, this will be faster. This will be faster. And this will feel closer.
- [53:25]
A
I mean, take all the time you need.
- [53:26]
C
But I'm like, this will be halfway. I don't know. I'm not gonna even pitch it. I'm not going to even tell you what it.
- [53:30]
A
No, you don't need to.
- [53:32]
B
Just enjoy it. Just enjoy the.
- [53:33]
C
Just enjoy the ride. Yeah.
- [53:35]
B
The best phase. Yes.
- [53:37]
C
Because it's hard when you're like. I mean, you know, we kill ourselves, like, trying to make things perfect and so many questions, and it's like, we rarely get to enjoy it. So someone's asking me, like, are you so excited about books? Aren't you, like, aren't you, like, this is it. This is great. This is, like, people are saying great things, and I'm not enjoying, because I'm like. I'm worried about the next thing, and I have to.
- [53:58]
A
Yeah, you're already lost in the next world.
- [54:00]
C
I'm already lost in the next world. Yeah.
- [54:02]
A
Well, remind us where people can find you if they would like to hear more from you and the name of the book and anything else you have to plug.
- [54:13]
C
The book is called Crash. Into me. It hits bookstores July 7th. You can find me@robinlee.com and my book tour information is there as well under RobinLee.com, i think it's like backslash events, but you can find the events page and you can also find me on Instagram at Obinlee. Robin Lee is R O B I N N E L E E I'm also on threads. I'm not really on Twitter anymore and Facebook, I guess I'm on Facebook @therobinlee and I also have an Idea View Facebook group and that I'm still in there and still answering questions about the idea of you. And I think I'll probably be in there until like I die. So those are probably the places you can find me. Yeah. No, yeah, it's not a bad place.
- [55:05]
A
Fantastic. Well, thank you for coming on today and sharing more with us about kind of what's happened since we last talked to you and the inspiration behind this new book.
- [55:14]
C
Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you.
- [55:18]
A
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- [56:17]
B
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- [57:07]
A
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- [57:30]
B
Well, let's get into some n matter. Tell me what you are obsessed with.
- [57:35]
A
I am obsessed with a podcast episode of Forever 35. They interviewed author Mary HK Choi because she has a new book that just came out called Pool House, which is her, I guess it's her adult debut. This has been on my list to read. But I listened to the interview and I found the way that she was talking about her writing and what she gets out of it and how she thinks about it. I found it very thought provoking such that I listened to the interview portion of the episode twice. Wow. Yeah.
- [58:09]
B
Huh. What was the most interesting part of it?
- [58:12]
A
She was talking a lot about, not a lot about. She was talking about how in this age of AI and also the instability in publishing, she was talking about how she just has to write something to like entertain herself. That's like a snapshot of her thought processes at this moment in time. I just thought, I mean, she's very entertaining in general, but she was also very wise. I, I just, I loved the conversation.
- [58:38]
B
That sounds great. I'll have to check that out for sure.
- [58:40]
A
Yeah, I think you would really like it. It's very far ranging. She talks about hormone replacement therapy, she talks about her book. She talks about writing like it's a. It's a smorgasbord of stuff. But I enjoyed it start to finish. What about you? What are you obsessed with?
- [58:53]
B
I'm obsessed with these shoes I got on ebay a couple months ago. I finally got to to wear them to the Sol de Janeiro slash bad on paper. Summer of Soul kickoff event last night. But I was browsing ebay on a, on a long road trip, I think. And I, I like to look up kitten heels because I'm quite tall. I find a kitten heel Manageable. I feel like it gives me access to sort of a fancier version of shoe without feeling like I'm towering that much farther above everyone. So I found these kitten heels. They're 100% leather, they're basically brand new, but they were secondhand, really, really affordable. And they have these really cute little charms on them. And I've never seen these in your video charms and I just love them. There's something about it that delighted me. I'd never seen anything like that. I got them for a really, really affordable price, I think. I put an offer on ebay and I got it. And yeah, it was nice to have them in my closet ready to go for a fun summery event yesterday. So I love them. Ebay kitten heels go wild.
- [59:58]
A
I'm so happy for you and your, your shoe charms.
- [60:01]
B
Shoe charms for all, I think. Well, what have you read?
- [60:05]
A
So last Friday I closed my laptop and I sat down and I started and finished Phoebe Berman's Gonna Lose it by Brooke Averick. And this book had been on my radar for a while because it kept coming up in my kind of like, new release Internet searches. And it had a wildly high Goodreads rating, like 4.4 or something with like almost a thousand ratings before it came out. And I was so curious because I couldn't tell if it was actually good or if it was. She has a very big podcast and I was wondering if it was like her army of fans who were giving it positive ratings or both. And I was like, kind of skeptical about it. But then I started hearing about it from romance readers whose opinions I really trust. So I started it last Friday and it was a one session read. So I think that probably tells you a lot of what you need to know. So the book is about a woman who is about to turn 30. She's a preschool teacher and she has a crippling fear of sexual intimacy. And every time she's like, gotten close, she gets nervous diarrhea or, you know, is like throwing up and like, has to cancel her plans and is, is dealing with a lot of anxiety overall and decides in the lead up to her 30th birthday that she needs to lose her virginity. And so that's where the Lose it in the title comes from. And I thought this book was so charming. It also has a friend group in it. She has like, multiple romantic conquests. Like, it's not, it's not a love triangle, but it's, you know, you're unclear who you're rooting for. Like, there's Multiple suitors in the mix. And I just thought this was such a delightful romance. It's very Gen Z feeling. Or that was my perception of it, anyway.
- [62:06]
B
Okay. Yeah. I've heard nothing but good things about this.
- [62:10]
A
It also felt really different than a lot of romances I've read, both in terms of the subject matter, and then also it did just feel more Gen Z.
- [62:21]
B
Okay, cool. Yeah. What about you?
- [62:23]
A
What did you read?
- [62:25]
B
I read June Baby by Shannon Garvey, which is about a woman who spends every summer since she was a teenager on Block island in Rhode Island. Have you ever been there?
- [62:37]
A
No.
- [62:37]
B
Off of Rhode Island.
- [62:39]
A
I've always wanted to go, and I've never been. I also feel like it's very top of mind for me because it was in the. One of the last episodes of the Real Housewives of Rhode island, which I can't get enough of.
- [62:52]
B
Have you watched the first reunion episode?
- [62:54]
A
Of course I have.
- [62:55]
B
I have so many thoughts on this. I feel like the season got really dark. Like, very, very dark. Anyway. Do you. That's. I do, yeah. Like the scene in Capo. I felt really uncomfortable.
- [63:07]
A
Oh, yeah. Okay. Like, I can save this for three things.
- [63:11]
B
Yeah, yeah. There's some darkness. There's just an edge to it that I don't know if I. It makes me uncomfortable. But anyway, more on that later. But, yes, I did actually really like that episode because I was reading the book while they were in Block Island. I was like, oh, there it is. Very different. Block island described in the book. Basically, this woman, we meet her. I think she's in her late 20s, early 30s. She's kind of in this holding pattern of, like, working these summer jobs in Block Island. So a lot of it has to do with, like, sort of the seasonal workers there and the culture around that and the restaurants there. And she's just kind of not moving forward with anything in her life. And a lot of it is because she's sort of stuck in lots of traumatic things that have happened in the past. It was interesting. I went to dinner by myself, and I was reading this book, and the bartender was like, you know, what are you reading? What's that book about? And I was maybe like 30% or 40% into it, and I said, oh, it's a romance. And then the next day I was like, oh, no, it's not at all. And it was weird because I thought it was one thing, and then I thought it was another thing, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. But then it wasn't that thing. Either.
- [64:23]
A
So what thing is it?
- [64:25]
B
I don't. I guess you would just call it, like, women's fiction or, like, general fiction. But it's not a romance in, like, the happily ever after sense of the word. But there are multiple relationships, lots of questionable decisions, which, you know, I don't hate at all. But I think this book really shines. Like, it is so beachy. The descriptions of the island and her riding her bike all over the island are so beautiful. There's, like, an artist cottage that she writes in, which, you know, I also love. But it really, like, the setting feels exactly how that beautiful cover feels. So I think this would be a great one to read on the beach for sure.
- [65:07]
A
Okay. This one's been on my list, too, but I haven't heard much about it. So I'm excited to get your endorsement.
- [65:12]
B
And if you would like to read another book, you could read the Burning side by Sarah Damoff, which is our July book club pick. Listener book club pick, chosen by you all. And this is a novel about a couple on the brink of divorce whose world is turned inside out when their home burns down. And I've heard phenomenal things about this one from so many different people, and especially our listeners.
- [65:37]
A
There was a very compelling comment on the voting thread where somebody said it was, like, the best character study. She felt right there with the characters. I'm really excited to read it.
- [65:48]
B
Me too.
- [65:49]
A
In the meantime, if you would like more of us, you can join us in the Facebook group under Batonpaper Podcast. We're on Instagram adonpaper podcast, the BFF group under Baton Paper Podcast. I am on Instagram beccamfreeman, and my newsletter is beccafreeman.substack.com and I am on the Internet.
- [66:09]
B
Olivia Mentor, did you want to tell the people to pre order your book?
- [66:14]
A
Did you already do it for a week? No, I don't know where I am. I'm just.
- [66:18]
B
Okay. I will tell you to go pre order Becca's book back where we started today, please. Thank you. It's like, you know that tone in videos when people are like, be nice to her. It's like, pre order the book. It sounds so threatening, but you kind of have to be. You have to be a little aggressive, you know?
- [66:36]
A
Well, thank you for being my book bouncer always.
- [66:40]
B
And that's. That's all we've got.
- [66:42]
C
Right?
- [66:43]
A
See you next week. Yep, that's it.
- [66:45]
B
Bye.
- [66:45]
A
Bye.