Chelsea Handler on Her Latest Book and Turning 50

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bad On Paper – Chelsea Handler on Her Latest Book and Turning 50

Episode Title: Chelsea Handler on Her Latest Book and Turning 50
Release Date: February 12, 2025
Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter
Guest: Chelsea Handler
Book Discussed: I'll Have What She's Having

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Introduction

In this episode of Bad On Paper, hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter sit down with renowned comedian and author Chelsea Handler to discuss her highly anticipated new book, I'll Have What She's Having, which coincides with her milestone 50th birthday. The conversation delves deep into the nuances of Chelsea's writing process, her personal growth, and the rich tapestry of relationships that have shaped her life and work.

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Reading Habits and Literary Influences

Chelsea Handler emphasizes the importance of reading in her daily life, viewing it as a non-negotiable activity that fuels her intelligence and creativity. She shares insights into her eclectic reading preferences and how they influence her writing.

• Quote:
  "[19:27] Reading is like a requirement for me. I can't date somebody who doesn't read. I have trouble with friends who don't read." – Chelsea Handler

Chelsea discusses her commitment to reading diverse genres, from spiritual and autobiographical works to intense memoirs. She recounts how inheriting 60 books from the previous owners of her Whistler home during quarantine became a significant part of her reading journey, further solidifying her love for literature and its impact on her personal and professional life.

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The Writing Process and Audiobook Recording

Chelsea offers a candid look into her writing process, highlighting the distinct differences between crafting a book and developing stand-up comedy routines.

• Quote:
  "[25:15] I can be much more sentimental and thoughtful with my writing. When it's a book, I'm telling personal stories with details that set the scene for the reader." – Chelsea Handler

She reflects on the challenges of recording audiobooks, initially reluctant to perform them herself and the backlash received when she attempted to outsource this task. Ultimately, Chelsea acknowledges the deeper connection audiobooks provide between her and her audience, especially when conveying emotional narratives.

• Quote:
  "[24:00] It allows the story to be more powerful when heard directly from the author, especially for emotional content." – Chelsea Handler

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Navigating Personal Relationships and Surrogate Parenthood

A heartfelt segment of the interview explores Chelsea's unique relationships with the daughters of an ex-partner, whom she considers her surrogate daughters. This aspect of her life reveals a softer, paternal side that contrasts with her outspoken public persona.

• Quote:
  "[33:31] My relationship with them is so special. They call me dad, and they come to me with everything. It makes me feel purposeful." – Chelsea Handler

Chelsea discusses the decision to include these relationships in her book, balancing the need to protect their identities with her desire to share these meaningful connections with her readers.

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Reflections on Turning 50 and Personal Growth

As Chelsea approaches her 50th birthday, she shares profound reflections on aging, self-discovery, and the evolution of her self-confidence. She contrasts her early years filled with ambition and outward confidence with her 40s, which were marked by introspection and personal challenges.

• Quote:
  "[36:16] Being 50 means I'm fully present. I don't dwell on the past or worry excessively about the future. It's all about embracing the moment." – Chelsea Handler

She discusses overcoming a midlife crisis, therapeutic journeys, and the realization that vulnerability is a strength. This period of her life has fostered a deeper sense of generosity, patience, and a renewed focus on living authentically.

• Quote:
  "[41:11] Blissfulness happens when you're present. That's why meditation is such an important tool." – Chelsea Handler

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Celebrating Milestones and Future Endeavors

Chelsea outlines her celebratory plans for her 50th birthday, intertwining her book tour with personal festivities across various cities. Her approach underscores her relentless hustle and desire to create meaningful experiences rather than viewing obligations as mere chores.

• Quote:
  "[42:30] This is a reset. I've done all these things I'm proud of, and now I want to try new stuff." – Chelsea Handler

She speaks passionately about embracing new challenges, such as venturing into acting, and encourages listeners to recognize their own achievements as proof of their resilience and capability.

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Highlight Story from the Book

When asked about her favorite story in I'll Have What She's Having, Chelsea highlights the opening chapter, "Little Girl," which delves into her childhood dreams and how they have shaped her present self.

• Quote:
  "[47:53] The opening chapter is special to me because it reflects what I dreamed of as a little girl and how I've manifested those dreams." – Chelsea Handler

This chapter encapsulates her journey from childhood aspirations to the accomplished, adventurous life she leads today, serving as an inspiration for readers to reflect on their own dreams and growth.

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Conclusion

Chelsea Handler's I'll Have What She's Having promises to be a compelling addition to her body of work, offering fans an intimate glimpse into her life as she celebrates her 50th birthday. Through honest storytelling and reflective insights, the book invites readers to join her on a journey of self-discovery, resilience, and the continuous pursuit of personal fulfillment.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Reading is like a requirement for me. I can't date somebody who doesn't read. I have trouble with friends who don't read." ([19:27])

• "I can be much more sentimental and thoughtful with my writing. When it's a book, I'm telling personal stories with details that set the scene for the reader." ([25:15])

• "It allows the story to be more powerful when heard directly from the author, especially for emotional content." ([24:00])

• "My relationship with them is so special. They call me dad, and they come to me with everything. It makes me feel purposeful." ([33:31])

• "Being 50 means I'm fully present. I don't dwell on the past or worry excessively about the future. It's all about embracing the moment." ([36:16])

• "Blissfulness happens when you're present. That's why meditation is such an important tool." ([41:11])

• "This is a reset. I've done all these things I'm proud of, and now I want to try new stuff." ([42:30])

• "The opening chapter is special to me because it reflects what I dreamed of as a little girl and how I've manifested those dreams." ([47:53])

---

For those eager to delve deeper into Chelsea Handler's experiences and insights, I'll Have What She's Having is available for pre-order and will be released on her 50th birthday, February 25.

Transcript

[Olivia Mentor]

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.

[Becca Freeman]

And I'm Becca Freeman.

[Olivia Mentor]

And today we have a very exciting sort of different episode for us. We haven't done an interview like this in a while, let alone with someone famous.

[Becca Freeman]

It's been a while. It's been a while. We have Chelsea Handler with us today, who has written a new book that is coming out later this month called I'll have what she is Having. It's in celebration of her 50th birthday. So we got to talk to her all about the inside baseball of her books and recording her audiobooks and how it works when you tell stories about celebrities in your book. And if you have to ask Jane Fonda for permission, we are talking about her relationships with young people in her life, even though she is not a mother. We are talking about what she likes to read. I'm very excited for it. I think it's a different side of Chelsea Handler than maybe you have gotten other places.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I was surprised. I don't know what I expected. But I read this book, and during the conversation, I just. I think it'll be different. Yeah, I think it'll be different than what people expect. For sure.

[Becca Freeman]

Very excited about that. But first, tell me your high.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, My high. I shared about this briefly on Instagram, but I went onto Instagram the other day. I feel like anytime I basically open any sort of media, it's, like, the worst news I can possibly imagine. The world's falling apart.

[Becca Freeman]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Olivia Mentor]

But. And it's very bleak, so I'm trying to stay away. But I open the app, and I interact a lot with Barbara Kingsolver's post because I think Barbara Kingsolver, the author, is one of the most interesting people. Like, I am obsessed with her. She lives in West Virginia on this farm. She has all these, like, beautiful photos of the farm. She's, like, so passionate about her community, obviously. She wrote Demon Copperhead, which won the Pulitzer Prize and bestselling novel.

[Becca Freeman]

And did you also know that she's a knitting pattern developer?

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, my. I did not know that. But she just seems like such a cozy person, you know? Like, I want her to adopt me. She's too young, I think, to be my grandmother. But I would like that, you know, like an aunt, a wise aunt. I don't know. Anyway, I just adore her. Obviously. She's an incredible writer. And if you haven't read Demon Copperhead, I highly suggest it by you. I mean, the listeners, anyone, everyone. But that book is a lot about the opioid crisis in America and more specifically in Appalachia and around the area where she lives. And it's just a very powerful story. But anyway, she used the profits, some of the profits at least from Demon Copperhead, to open this women's recovery center in Lee County, Virginia, which is around where Demon Copperhead is set. That will help people and I guess women specifically, who are struggling with addiction. And I just thought that is the most life affirming, like, wonderful piece of news that someone who had such wild success with this book put it back into something so important, like in her own community, lift other people up. Like, it brought tears to my eyes. It was just this moment of like, there is so much good in the world still, so much good in the world, even when bad things are happening. And it just was wonderful. I just, I love her. Good for her.

[Becca Freeman]

That's incredible.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I think it's so cool. Um, I also have a secondary high, though.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, tell me your secondary high, too. There's no, there's no such thing as too many highs in this bleak period.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, this one is more personal to my life. Slightly less life affirming, I think. But tonight it's Friday as we record this. Jake and I are going to watch a movie at 5:45pm I haven't been to the movie theaters in I don't even know how long. We're going to see Companion, which is exactly my type of movie. It's like a thriller, scary movie, but also satire. And then afterwards, we are going to Chili's.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my God. I've never heard of Companion, to tell you the truth. But I really perked up when you said Chili's.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's a movie about a sex robot, I think. But it's whatever, it's scary, it's satire. I'm really excited. But just the simplicity of going to the movies and then going to Chili's is something that is, I've looked forward to all week. On my Google calendar, it just says triple Dipper. I don't even know if I'll get the triple dipper, but I am excited. So, anyway, those are the things making me happy today. They range from small to large. In the case of Barbara Kingsolver's amazing work, my work is not so magnanimous. But I'm very, very excited to have this evening.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, well, I don't have to tell you that I'm jealous.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, well, tell me about your high. We were just talking about this and I'm excited for you to. To share it with the people.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, so I feel like my high at a macro level is that I have just had a full 180 attitude adjustment since getting my book feedback. I feel so much lighter. I was talking to friends last night. I played mahjong last night. And they were like, how are you? And I was like, I'm great. And they were like, yeah, I can tell. They're like, I can tell you your energy has changed. And I just, I'm really feeling my self confidence wise. I just, I'm feeling more patient with myself. Like, just everything feels better. And I feel like I was sitting in uncertainty for so long last year. Like, really since the end of April of last year, I was sitting in uncertainty. And to just have a vote of confidence, to have a path forward, I just, I feel so different. So that's like my macro high. But then specifically last year. Well, actually this week is the official anniversary, so it's my substack one year paid aversary. So since launching a paid tier on my substack and I wrote a post about it, I shared all sorts of metrics. If you want to know how much money I make from it. If you want to know how many subscribers I have, like, literally sharing everything. It's behind the paywall, though. But just like reflecting on the year and having that milestone, I just feel so proud of myself.

[Olivia Mentor]

You should. I mean, you've had such, like, amazing growth there and such success and.

[Becca Freeman]

And I enjoy it so much.

[Olivia Mentor]

You weren't sure of it. Yeah. Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

I enjoy it so much. Like, I frequently find myself bribing myself with being able to work on it. I'm like, okay, if you do this other thing, you can work on your newsletter, which is amazing.

[Olivia Mentor]

It is. Yeah. That's so cool. I'm so glad.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. I feel incredible.

[Olivia Mentor]

Do you have, like, a goal or a specific thing that you're like, I'm gonna put all this good energy into this, Other than, of course, working on the book. Like, is there something you're like, now that I feel this good, I want to really prioritize this other thing?

[Becca Freeman]

No, I just want to stay feeling this good. I want to prioritize not letting myself slip back into a negative mindset.

[Olivia Mentor]

I like that. That's good. Keep it going.

[Becca Freeman]

Let's take the mood down. What's your low?

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, my low is that for the second time this year, I have dropped my phone and cracked the screen.

[Becca Freeman]

Olivia.

[Olivia Mentor]

I know, I know. Yeah. I fell on the marble floor in our bathroom. And I was like, yep, this is gonna be bad when I pick it up. So the last time I got it fixed at a Walmart in just somewhere in Albany, it actually like messed up my phone a little. So now when the phone is searching for wifi, like, it freaks out and freezes and I can't use it for like 10 seconds. Strange. And also it has like a weird yellow glow in the lower right hand corner. And that's exactly where this new crack is. So now it's like tinted yellow. I don't know, I think I just need to get a new phone, to be honest, but I'm feeling really lazy. So I might just be the person that's just walking around with a cracked phone case, which, you know, I will survive to be clear, but. But it just is annoying. It's very annoying.

[Becca Freeman]

That is annoying.

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, very low on the scale of annoying things fair in the world.

[Becca Freeman]

Today I have an equally silly low.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, that make me feel better. Share your silly low, please.

[Becca Freeman]

What is silliest about this is how self inflicted it is. So some of you might have seen some of this debacle on Instagram, but on Monday, I was starting to reread my book and mark it all up with my red pen and make margin notes and I got like 15 pages in and I was like, you know what I need? I need to go get a corkboard. I've been seeing your cork board and all of your Instagram stories, and I'm so jealous. Like, it just, I don't know, it feels productive. And I've started accumulating all of this stuff on the wall above my desk, which was just taped to the wall. And I was like, it would be so much better if I had a corkboard. And then I found this Chad Michael Murray from the merriest Gentleman Thirst Trap calendar, which I had gotten in a Netflix PR mailer totally forgotten about. And it was in my office underneath a binder that I used to keep my drafts in. And I found it and I was like, I would be so much more productive if Chad Michael Murray, shirtless Chad Michael Murray was looking over me doing my work. And I was like, I just. I gotta have a corkboard. Can I wait for Amazon prime delivery? Absolutely not. So I scamper off to Staples. I'm like, this is totally a sanctioned work break. I get a corkboard, I get some push pins, I get new Sharpies. Like, I am excited. And I get home and the corkboard is like, it has a metal frame and it's kind of warped.

[Olivia Mentor]

And so at First I went for the wooden frame.

[Becca Freeman]

That was probably smart.

[Olivia Mentor]

It was $70.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh. Mine was like, half the price.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, really? Okay, well, how big is yours?

[Becca Freeman]

Smaller. I think it's like two feet by three feet.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, that's. Yeah, that's more normal, but. Okay, Go on, go on.

[Becca Freeman]

So it's. The frame is warped, and so I put a bunch of heavy cookbooks on the corners to try to unbend the frame. And I only left it like, two hours. I was impatient because I wanted to put it up because I just. I had this vision and I was like, I cannot keep going until this has been realized. And also I was like, I don't think this is actually going to unbend the frame. So I had been planning to mount it with, like, command Velcro strips. And I was like, fuck it. I'm gonna use anchors and screws in the wall, and I'll just, like, bolt it to the wall and it'll be fine. Olivia. The thing that I didn't account for is how bad I am at home DIY projects.

[Olivia Mentor]

You were like, I am going to do this full scale mounted on the wall. I just leaned mine. I was like, we'll go with this.

[Chelsea Handler]

Nope.

[Becca Freeman]

So I mounted it to the wall. There are at least four extra rogue holes where I got it wrong because the, like, my measurements were off, whatever. And then it was still, like, one corner was, like 3 inches off the wall because it was warped. So I was like, I need to mount that corner to the wall too. And it's not meant to be mounted on three sides. There's, like, hardware on the back for that so that you can mount it either way. But it's not meant to be mounted on three sides. So then I was like, okay, I have to do this thing that, like. Because it hooks on to the screws, basically. So now I'm like, okay, I need to get it to hook on. On three sides, which is also kind of impossible. I cannot tell you how jankly. It's like there's a screw coming out of the wall that's, like, bent at a 90 degree angle that's just kind of like, hooked into the frame. And I'm like, whatever, it's fine. I. I was so close to tears. I have ruined this wall behind it. Like, oh, no, not ruined, but like, we need a lot of spackle and we're gonna. We're gonna have some damage to undo when this corkboard comes down.

[Olivia Mentor]

But isn't it satisfying to put things on the cork board?

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my God, it's so satisfying. So my low has turned into a high. But, like, the process of hanging things, like, I just. I haven't moved in so long. I haven't done a. A DIY project in so long. And I really got too cocky and I forgot how bad I am at DIY projects.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm also not great, admittedly, which is why I just leaned mine. What's one thing you have, other than Chad Michael Murray obviously lording over you as you work? What is one thing you have on the board that you're excited about or you just added?

[Becca Freeman]

So I haven't added anything new yet. My favorite thing on here is for the previous round of book edits that I did, my editor with her edit letter, pulled out a bunch of questions, quotes from that draft that were, like, standout moments or like, the mood board where she was like, yes, this is the book. So it's just like a page of quotes bulleted of my words that are just being reflected back at me that I was like, yes. So that's on there. I have a bunch of index cards with kind of just like, mantras, reminders to myself.

[Olivia Mentor]

Cool.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm not going to cheat and seek it out, but I'm looking forward to, like, having some ephemera of, like, I want stuff on it, you know?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, like tickets or something like that.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Cool. Well, it sounds great.

[Becca Freeman]

And then also Chad of the month. Every month, a new Chad Michael Murray, actually.

[Olivia Mentor]

So I also have that calendar. And when Jake's parents came to visit, it had been, like, out, because it was a Christmas mailer and they were here for the holidays. And so Jake, like, gave it to his mom and was like, here, this is for you. Enjoy. Like, it's a joke. And then later, she was like, was Jake, like, serious? She's like, because it's kind of weird and I don't know if I should bring it home. And I was like, no, it's. It was just a joke, Twyla. It's fine.

[Becca Freeman]

Did Twyla take your Chad Michael Murray calendar?

[Olivia Mentor]

No, we still have it somewhere.

[Becca Freeman]

You should put it on.

[Olivia Mentor]

Discover it. I should, like, bury it under the floorboard. So, like, whenever the next family is, like, renovating this house, I'm, like, hoping to find, like, a tiny, like, ancient pair of shoes. What they will find is this calendar, which will be very confusing for them.

[Becca Freeman]

But, yeah, it's actually. I don't know if Netflix knows how instrumental this press mailer has become to my writing process, because I have the Chad Michael Murray calendar. And then it also came with this, like, coffee scented candle for Sabrina Carpenter's Christmas special that has become my writing candle that I light when I'm writing. It's almost done, but I'm like, wow, I have. I've become really dependent on multiple things from this press package.

[Olivia Mentor]

Thanks, Netflix.

[Becca Freeman]

All right, enough about us. Let's take a quick ad break and let's get into this interview.

[Olivia Mentor]

This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. So now that we are in February and the holidays are far behind us, Jake and I are turning our attention back towards renovating and decorating our house. Yes, we have lived here two years, but I just think this process is going to be ongoing forever. We have a little note on our fridge, actually, with like the items that we need to buy or tasks we need to check off. And recently I checked one of the things off because I shopped on Wayfair to search for something that we have really, really needed, which was a firewood holder for actually two places. So two firewood holders. And it can be surprisingly hard find one of these that isn't too, like, rustic looking or too modern. But on Wayfair, I managed to find the perfect classic wrought iron option. And I love them so much I bought two of them for both spaces.

[Becca Freeman]

Wayfair's huge selection of home items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you, no matter what you're looking to upgrade this spring. As I've shared, I'm on a mission this year to refresh my throw pillow situation. And honestly, there's no better place to search for home accessories than Wayfair because they truly have everything. Every style, every color. They have endless options. I will also add that I just bought. It hasn't come yet, but I bought a full length mirror on Wayfair this week because whenever I take like outfit selfies, I've been doing it in my bedroom mirror and just the background, like, it's like crammed. And I'm like, the background is bad. And I was like, I just need a mirror in my living room. And so I found one on Wayfair. It was on sale. It was like a perfect size. I'm very excited.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, I can't wait to see it. It's true that there really is something for every style and every home on Wayfair. No matter what your space looks like or what your budget is, Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your New Year's home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget. Whether you need a light Refresh or a total organization overhaul. Plus they have free and easy delivery, even on big stuff and they will even help you set it up.

[Becca Freeman]

Give your home the refresh it needs with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Interview Host]

Chelsea, we're so excited to have you here today.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God. Thank you, ladies. It's so nice to meet you.

[Interview Host]

So this is feels very full circle for me because I first heard about you through one of your books. My Horizontal Life came out when I was in college and every girl I know had it and thought you were the shit. And, like, I think we were all too poor to have the E. Network. So I definitely hadn't seen your show yet, but it was definitely through your book.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God. I love that. I love that. I don't think that. I think that book came out before my E Show, but it probably caught more wind once I was on tv. But I love that. Thank you. That's so fun.

[Interview Host]

Like, to this day, one of my very best friends who is not a big reader. I think she owns three books and it's My Horizontal Life. Are you there, Vodka? It's me, Chelsea. And for some reason, I cannot even begin to defend Jose Canseco's autobiography.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love that, too. I love when I hear from people that they don't read. They don't read books, but they've read mine.

[Interview Host]

Yes, it's a compliment.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think so.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I think so, too. Well, speaking of reading, one of the things that I loved so much about this book. I'll have what she's having. Is that you talked so much about your love of reading. I wanted to start out by talking about your reading life and, like, what it looks like now. Like, how much do you read? Do you read in the morning? Do you read at night? Do you read 24 7? What's that like for you? I. Sure you're very busy.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, no, I mean, that doesn't matter. You know, reading is like a requirement for me. Like, I think it's left over from not having gone to college. Like, I have this kind of need to prove that I am intelligent, even though I didn't go and gr. And now I've proven that enough to myself. But I still, for me, reading is a requirement. Like, I can't date somebody who doesn't read. I have trouble with friends who don't read. Like, I'm like, even my sister. We were in Vegas this Weekend. I have a residency there. And she was. She was like, I just. I gave her three books. I'm like, listen. Because she's like, I'm having a lot of trouble focusing. I'm like, you used to read books all the time. You have to get back into it. Like, your ADD is just a result of social media and a product of our environment. Like, you have to get. You're better than that. I'm like, you have to. She's like, I cannot fucking concentrate on any book, Chelsea. She's like, especially not the shit that you're reading. Because I like, you know, spiritual shit. And I like, like, deep stuff and also autobiographicals. I mean, I will read almost anything unless it's trash. Like, unless it's just.

[Interview Host]

I'll read trash too.

[Chelsea Handler]

I can't read like a novel, like a fiction novel about a girl in. In New York city when she's 22, trying. I don't care about that. I need life learning lessons. Like, I need to learn when I'm reading. But my reading is. What do I do? I don't really have any sort of, like, you know, schedule. I'm not a very scheduled person. When I have a lot of downtime, I read. But people give me books all the time, and I have to read for my podcast all the time. So it's kind of like a natural, organic thing. But I will say, like, when I moved, and I talk about this in my book, when I moved to Whistler, when I bought a house in Whistler, I moved in, and the previous owners had left me, like, probably 60 books on their bookshelves, which I just thought was the sweetest thing that you could ever do, like, for a person, especially for me. Like, they didn't know who bought their house, so they didn't know it was me. And I just thought that was just the most, like, lovely thing I read. Out of respect for that gift, I read every single book that they left at the house. There was one book called the 10 Maps of Canada, you know, which is really dry and not that interesting. And I. I read so much in that time because I was quarantining at the time too. So it was like two weeks of non stop reading mushrooms and reading. I like to read on mushrooms also, but I love to absorb information. And I really hope that our social media doesn't ruin that for people, for younger people, because I hear it more and more that people hate reading or they can't focus. And it's like, you can make yourself focus. You can make yourself get into a book, put your phone in a different room, and transport yourself to another world. Like, who doesn't want to do that? You know? Like, who doesn't want to escape? That's the best, healthiest kind of escapism, in my opinion, that there is.

[Interview Host]

Yeah, it's like, the only time, even now when I'm watching tv, I feel like I have the second tiny screen with me, and it's, like, the only thing that takes up your full, undivided attention.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, you look for TV shows where you can also be on your phone and watch tv and you don't really have to pay attention to the plot. You're like, oh, this is a good show that I don't have to pay attention to, so I don't have to watch it four more times.

[Becca Freeman]

Totally.

[Interview Host]

So, wait, I have to know. What were the books that you recommended to your sister this weekend?

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, God. Well, I gave her a couple. I gave her one book that is, too. She's not gonna read that. It's called Letting Go by David Hawkins, and it's very deep, and it's metaphysical, and it's all about energy. She. That's not for her. My sister's not into that. I should have known better. But I gave her. What did I give her? Oh, I gave her an autobiography on Tom Selleck because my. My doctor had given. So I whipped through that because, you know, he was such a hottie, and I. I respect hotness. And then I gave her another autobiography on what's his face, Andre Agassi, because I feel like that's one.

[Becca Freeman]

That's great.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's a good autobiography. And, like, you don't have to be a fan or, like, tennis or any of that to appreciate that book. So, yeah, I gave her those two things.

[Interview Host]

I feel like when you read a good memoir, it, like, sucks you in and you feel like, you know the person. Like, I listened to Jessica Simpson's memoir over Covid. I, like, walked around New York listening to the audiobook, and now I feel like we're best friends, even though I don't know her from a hole in the wall. But, like, it doesn't matter. It's like, I feel like you hear somebody's story and you're like, oh, yeah, that's my. That's my friend Jess. Now I feel like people are going to read your book and be like, that's my friend Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, and also in the audio recording is, like, a different component. Right. Like, I'm currently. I have to go record my audiobook. Today for this new book that we're discussing. I've recorded it for two days, and it's. It's a very tedious, laborious process. It is very annoying to read your own words out loud at a pace that everyone can digest without flubbing your lines for 300 pages, essentially. And. But the connection that it makes with your fans is so worthwhile. Like, I think after my third book, I was like, I'm not doing the audio recordings anymore. I can't. I can't be in that booth. That is not my idea of a good time. And so I think we hired one. We hired, like, a voiceover person for one of the books. And it wasn't right. You know, I heard so much backlash from fans going, like, how could you not read it to us? You're a comedian. You talk for a living. Like, this is your shtick. And I realize you're right. I do need to, like, level up and record my own books. So I am doing it right now, this one. And it does mean it's just more powerful to hear it from an author. You know, like, especially my last book because it was very, like, emotional, and I talked a lot about my brother passing away and stuff, and therapy. So that was really important to read. But, like, I appreciate the act of it now. Like, I understand it's necessary not to, you know, complain about it, even though I will continue to complain about doing it.

[Interview Host]

Okay, so wait, so turning to you as a writer, I'm really curious. Is writing for you like, writing a book? Does that feel the same muscle as, like, when you write a standup routine or when you write, like, a monologue or something that you're going to perform? Or does it feel different to write something that's going to be read?

[Chelsea Handler]

No, I feel like I can be much more sentimental and thoughtful with my writing. When it's a book and it's. I'm telling personal stories, there is a lot of overlap, and there always has been between my standup, between, you know, me on tv, because I'm always telling personal stories and my writing. Like, there is an overlap. And there's, like, a couple things in the book that are also in stand up, but they're so different because of the medium. Right. You know, like, you're telling stand up, you're. You're telling jokes. You're looking for punchlines. You're not getting into every detail and every nitty gritty thing that happened and what someone was wearing. When you're writing a book, you can get into all of Those details, because you have to set the scene for the reader. So there's like, this Andrew Cuomo story I talk about in the book, and I talk about that in Stand up, and they're, you know, I'm telling two different parts of the story pretty much while telling the full story. The details are a lot different in each medium. So, yeah, I think for me, I'm not a fiction writer. I'm not making up, you know, I'm not being creative in the sense that I'm making up a story out of nothing. I'm drawing from all of my personal experiences and life experiences. I think it's probably a lot harder to write fiction and come up with a story out of, you know, a thin fucking air. Even though I'm sure a lot of fiction writers are basing it on experiences they've had as well, it's a little easier to tell your own story. You know, I mean, I've made a career out of being myself, so it's the right thing to do, you know, to continue to deliver that myself. Before, you know, before we had social media where people were sharing so much of themselves, I was never the type of celebrity that was private or took myself too seriously or was sensitive about revealing personal information. To a fault, you know, to a fault where I revealed other people's sensitive information many times because it was part of my own story. I'd be like, oh, gosh, me so and so and so and so were here. And they'd be like, don't include me in that story. And I'm like, oh, sorry.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So a little bit of a learning curve in that regard. Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

I loved in the book how you talked about your experience with setting boundaries, especially with, like, sharing and not sharing. And I'm really curious when it comes to book writing, which is, I would say, more detailed, more open, more vulnerable. Like you were saying, how do you decide? Like, where's that line? How do you decide what to include, what not to include? Do you ever write something and then you're like, maybe not once you get down the line with revisions.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Because a lot of things a have to be shrouded for people's privacy. Right. So you kind of have to, like, some things in this book are composites of characters instead of the real character, because you can't get away with that if you're. Especially if you're telling an unflattering story, you know, about someone or a friend. So this book is a lot about how I've created this life for myself and It. And it can seem self aggrandizing, you know, even as I was reading it, I'm like, look at me patting myself on the back. Especially when it's called I'll have what she's having, which I would like to say is not the title that I came up with. It was the title that my editor, my managers, and my agents all read it and they're like, this is the title of this book. This is how you feel when you're done reading it. Because I was like, I can't call a book I'll have what she's having. They're like, if anyone can do that, it is you. And I was like, okay. But, you know, you're telling stories about yourself, and you don't want to diminish other people's value just because of your opinion, especially when it's not comedic. So, yes, there were some things that I had in first and second drafts about stories that are in the book about real life, you know, situations with friends that I just was like. It felt icky to divulge too much, and it felt kind of like nasty. Like I was still holding on to that stuff. So I. Yeah, so I took a lot of that stuff out, and I.

[Interview Host]

Noticed how much it wasn't just, you know, you telling the great parts of your life. Are you telling the parts where you look like a hero or you look awesome? You also are, like, owning your own shit and, you know, calling yourself out. Like, one of the first stories in the book is about you getting called to Jane Fonda's house for her to sit you down and tell you that she didn't like the way you were acting at one of her parties.

[Olivia Mentor]

I want this experience for myself.

[Chelsea Handler]

By the way, she should set up a center. I'm gonna tell her a center where she just brings young women in and schools them.

[Interview Host]

Like, how does that work? Like, do you call Jane Fonda? And you're like, can I put this in here? Are you just like, oh, I'm telling on myself, so it's fine?

[Chelsea Handler]

No, I. I asked her permission for sure. I'm not trying to piss her off. You know what I mean? I mean, I wrote it and then I asked her permission before I put it into, like, you know, you have to get a lot of people's permission when writing books, as you well know. So I just asked her, like, this is the chapter. And then she actually. She actually had some changes to make about, like, the dialogue. So that was funny. She's like, can you just say I wouldn't say it like this. I would have said it like this. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. So that was funny. And that was a perfect example of the kind of woman that I wanted to be. You know, her sitting me down at that time in my life and telling me what she said to me really set the tone in ways that I didn't understand in that moment, that I do understand now. Upon reflection and upon so much time having gone by, like, she really set up for me what it means to be a sister and to be a woman to other women. And, like, my first responsibility. I've always felt this very strongly since I was a little girl, that my first responsibility is always to other little girls, other women and other. You know, I just. I feel like such a woman, you know, Like, I mean, even though I have some very masculine qualities, I feel so connected to women and connected to underdogs. And I know most people probably don't think of me as an underdog, but I think once you feel like an underdog in your life at any point in your life, that will always stay. Stay with you, and you just get better at understanding. That's just a little voice in your head from, you know, childhood that's not real, really, your reality. And so that's kind of also, you know, what I'm trying to impart in my work and in my book by letting people know. Like, you know, we all have these insecure feelings. We all have the days where we're like, we can't do it. I don't feel like I can do it. And on those days, you have to remember that you can and that you're gonna feel confident again and you're gonna feel self assured again and just hold on to that feeling, you know, and sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes, you know, you walk out of a place and you're like, I can't today. I'm gonna just try again tomorrow. I recently had, like, a very, very upsetting time with some, like, personal issues with my building a house and a bunch of garbage that nobody wants to hear about, but, like, really brought me to my knees. And I was, like, really reaching for all my different therapy tools and all my different coping mechanisms to try to figure out a way to not let it get me so bothered. But I felt like I was being robbed by these people. Like, I felt like people were just going in and taking all of my hard work and throwing it out the window because I was a celebrity and they could take advantage of someone, and I was really having a Hard time coping. And I was like, you know this. You know how to do this. What's wrong? Like, this is a good test for you to use all of your skills and really just. And then at the end of the day, I just realized, no, I can be weak for a day or two. I can be, like, it's too exhausting to be strong all the time. And that is, you know, the lesson that I seem to keep learning is that it is okay to be weak. It is okay to be scared, to not know, to not have the answers, and to throw your hands up and be like, I can't. I just can't do it today. Like, I. I have to try again tomorrow.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interview Host]

I thought that was so interesting. And one of the other things that I was so compelled by in this book was seeing this other side of you in your relationship with these three girls who were the daughters of one of your exes that you kind of took under your wing while you were dating this guy and then stayed really close to afterwards. And I really thought this was important. And I don't want to have children either. Like, seeing this example of, you know, how you can have important relationships with the next generation without actually being a parent. And I thought, like, some of your discussion of, like, the softer side of that was just, like, so lovely. But I'm curious why you decided to include that now. Because it seems like when we first met them in the book, they were eight or nine. In, like, one of the last chapters, you're taking one of them to visit colleges. So it's a relationship that's been in your life for a long time. Like, how did you come about making that such a focus in the book?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, there's still such a big part of my life. So when I was writing the book, I was like, oh, this is so interesting. Like, this side that people don't know about me, like, that I have this. And it's not just them. It's multiple children in my life, aside from my nieces and nephews, who are very active in my life, but there are lots of children in my life. And I was like, oh, that's kind of something I've never revealed, you know? And the girls were like, you know, please put us in your book. Put us in your book. And I was like, I have to disguise you. Like, I can't. I'm not exposing you to the world like this. And they're like, we don't care. We don't care. Like, we have so many funny stories. How can you not share them. So it was kind of like them kind of encouraging me, and me kind of realizing this is something new to share. And my relationship with them is. Is so, like. It is so special. Like, I just. I mean, it is so paternal, you know, like, they really do call me dad. And they. Are they father or. They call me, but they come to me with everything. They come to me first. They come to me. I check in every morning, how, like, how are you? How are you? How are you? So all three of them. And it's like. It's so beautiful. Like, I just feel so. I get so much out of it, obviously, because it makes me feel so purposeful, you know, especially not being. Being so adamant and being so outspoken about not wanting to be a parent. And the backlash that that brings on is, like, such nonsense to me, especially because it has created the bandwidth for me to be able to be in so many other people's lives and help other people that wouldn't have the opportunities, you know, that a child of mine would have. So that is much more meaningful to me.

[Olivia Mentor]

It was a very moving part of the book, and I think it really exemplified what you were talking about. Like, the power of being seen by a woman who you admire is like. It's life changing. And so, you know, what a gift to give someone that I thought it was. It was very special.

[Chelsea Handler]

Thank you. That's how I felt about Jane Fonda, you know, her seeing me and really seeing me, not discarding me because I acted badly one time. Seeing me and knowing that I was deeper than that and more than that and letting me know that I should be reaching for the better parts, not, you know, the darker stuff.

[Olivia Mentor]

So this book is coming out on or around your 50th birthday, correct? On my 50th birthday. What a nice way to celebrate. And I feel like the conventional wisdom with aging is that when you're in your 30s, you kind of, like, start to understand who you are. You have some experience under your belt, and then your 40s, you just, like, don't give a shit what anyone thinks, finally. And then I'm very curious if that has been true for you, either of those sort of conventional wisdoms and also what you're hoping for for your 50s.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think I kind of worked in, like, reverse. Like, I had all this crazy confidence early on that just didn't add up. It was kind of like this false bravado. But I believed that I was really, like, special talented and that people needed to know about me. Like, I believed that at A very young age. I was like, okay, people are really going to. I'm going to be able to help a lot of people. And that, when I think about it, is just so crazy, because my 20s were crazy. I was waitressing, I was living in LA, I was sleeping with men. I was having that time of my life. But I was in pursuit, you know what I mean, of a career. And I just thought, when my career begins, that's when my life will begin. This is just playtime. And so I worked at several restaurants. I was fired from every single one of them. I had lots of boyfriends, I had lots of friends. I partied hard. I just had a blast. And I lived in Santa Monica the whole time. And I rollerbladed, like, probably 30 to 40 miles a day. And I'm not exaggerating. Rollerblading up and down the Strat. I was an exercise lunatic. I used to rollerblade up and down the California incline. I would rollerblade down the California incline with my brake pad on. I was a lunatic. I'm always a lunatic when it comes to, like, exercise and sports and extremism. Like, I love adventure, so. But the 20s were like that. Then my 30s, same. More of the same. A lot of confidence, a lot of success, a lot of feeling like I was in the right place at the right time and I deserved it. A little bit of arrogance to go along with that, you know, kind of. And then my 40s is when everything shifted. And my 40s was when I started to really look at myself, to really take stock of my behavior, of who I am, what I'm doing, what am I putting out into this world. That's when I kind of had, you know, they call it kind of a midlife crisis, because that's when it happens. I think at 40, you start to go, wait, what. What are my contributions? Is this meaningful? What I'm doing? Does it matter? Does anyone care about me? If anyone care if I go away or. Or disappear or what? Like, if I'm not going to have a husband and I'm not going to have children, like, what. What is my game plan? And so that was like a period of real insecurity and real self exploration for, like, probably the first half of my 40s. A lot of friendships ending, a lot of change. And I didn't like that time. It wasn't pleasant, but it was necessary. You know, I had to go to therapy. I had to unearth all of this childhood bullshit that I had been delaying thinking about. And then in the last couple of years. I just got my head back on straight. So I'm back to where I was, you know, kind of in my 30s, but way more confident. Like, I feel better. I feel like I look better. I feel like I'm healthier. I'm so much more, like, generous with my time. Do you know what I mean? Like, when someone annoys me and I don't want to hang out with them, I have much more patience for people who need a lift or need something. Like, I used to not be, I'd be like, that person's annoying. I can't be around them now. I'm like, I still have somewhat allergic reaction to annoying people, but my tolerance has greatly improved. And the other thing about being 50, I think, you know, because I've been thinking a lot about it is you don't ever feel your age. I mean, the fact that I'm 50 is like, I just, I'm like, this is so fun because A, I had no idea it would be like my life would be this way, you know, Like, I had no idea my life would be as big as it is and as fun as it is and as filled with adventure and action as it is. But the other thing is you're not thinking about the past and you're not thinking about the future. You're really present when you're 50 because you've been down that road and you understand how futile it is to go over things over and over again in your head and to rue things and to be like, oh my God, why did I do that? It's not worth it. It doesn't matter. Like you, if you made a bad impression with someone, hopefully you'll run into them again and make a better impression and they're going to forget about it. And to worry about the future is futile as well. I mean, look at what we're dealing with in this world. So it really is about the present moment. And as I say in the book several times, probably is the most, like, joy that we experience is by being present. Like, blissfulness happens when you're present. You know, that's why meditation is such an important tool to try to get to and to get to use because it helps you so much stay in the moment that you're in. And it's like one foot in front of the other. Like, if I looked at my schedule today, I would throw up. I don't stop until like 7:30 at night, you know, but it doesn't matter. Like, I'm here right now. I'm gonna do this Right now.

[Olivia Mentor]

And.

[Chelsea Handler]

And when I'm done with this, I'll look and see what the next thing is. I don't go and go, oh, it's too much. It's too much. Because it's not too much if you just are really present with every moment that you're in. And I think the best thing about being my age is understanding how important being present is.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's actually to bring it back to what we talked about at the beginning. Like, that's the joy of reading, too, is that, like, you're in that book, that moment, nothing else. Like, you cannot be looking at your phone and reading. And if you are probably not a pretty good reading experience. But, yeah, it reminded me of that a lot.

[Chelsea Handler]

The feeling of not wanting to put a book down. Right. I don't know what is. Like, what's a better feeling than not wanting something to stop? Right. Like, yeah, that's kind of it. I appreciate my presence, and I appreciate being able to recognize when I'm not being present, when I'm preoccupied, or when I'm letting, like, too much negativity get me. You know, I'm like, okay, no, no, no, let me work my way around this. Like, it's. You know, when you're negative and you focus on negative stuff, more negative stuff happens.

[Interview Host]

I'm also really inspired that I feel like you are not. At least in this book, you didn't give the impression that you're thinking about slowing down or, like, making your life smaller. I saw you did a cover story with Parade magazine, and you were talking about wanting to try your hand at acting now that you're turning 50. And, like, I think that's awesome.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I just changed agents.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was like, guys, you know what? This is a reset. Like, I've done all these other. These things in my life that I'm really proud and happy with and that I. I feel like I've gotten really good at. Like, now I should try to do some different stuff. And they're like, this is great news. Like, we would love to see you and stuff. And I was like, yeah, let's do it. Like, let's do stuff now that I haven't done. Now that I've been able to kind of get this far and be successful for this amount of time. You know, there's a lot of along the way of any career. It doesn't matter if you're a celebrity or not. There's a lot of imposter syndrome, and there's a lot of, when is my luck going to Run out? When am I going to. What if I don't get this? What if I'm canceled? What if I'm. What if they don't like me and I never get hired again? Or. And at a certain point, and it's probably at this age, now that I'm 49, about to turn 50, is I've got myself this far. That's a lot of data to show that I can get myself farther. You know what I mean? So, yeah. And that. And I'm speaking to everyone when I say that when people freak out about situations, you have to remember that you've gotten yourself to this point in your life. You're the most reliable person that you should be depending on.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, that's. That is very true.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm.

[Olivia Mentor]

I think I'm going to remember that. Okay, so for your birthday, other than like launching a book into the world, what do you have planned?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, my book is all around my birthday, so I'm going to be doing a book tour. But I do an annual ski video every year for my birthday. And this year I'm blowing it out. We have a big plan. We're all flying to a very, like, a secret destination to film my vision for my 50th birthday ski video, which was gonna require lots of people, a camera crew, and lots of moving parts. So I'm doing that. I am gonna have a birthday party in Whistler. Cause that's where I spend my winters. Whistler is like one of the most special places to me, if not the most special place. So I'm having a birthday party there before I leave for New York to do my press around the book. So I'm going to have a big dance party there where we're going to take, you know, LSD and mushrooms and just go off. Then I'm going to go to New York and then I'm going to, you know, I'm doing press the day before my book, the day of my book, the day it comes out as a Tuesday, it's my birthday. I'm having a party in New York City that night. And then I go off to different cities. And all of the cities I'm going to, I have friends in, like, Boston. And I think I'm going to Cincinnati. I actually have some friends in Cincinnati. And I'm going to Seattle. And all along those places I'm having parties. I rounded out in la, and it's a Saturday night, so I'll have another party here. I just figure I'll just blow it out all year long. With all my different groups of friends, because I'm very. I move around a lot, you know, I'm never really in one place for very long, so I have lots of different group friends and I can just kind of keep the party going all year long. So, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I was a little hesitant at first. I was like, oh, who cares? My whole life is a birthday party. I get up on stage, you know, in front of thousands of people all the time. Do I really need like a wedding? And then I was like, yeah, I want to be celebrated. Like, I don't, I don't want to be celebrated in that way. I want to be with the people that celebrate me. You know what I mean? The people that have been with me for so many years. Like, I want us all to celebrate together, like, how great this has been.

[Interview Host]

I feel like so many authors get really stressed about book tours and like, treat it as a chore. And I love that you're just like, this is my party tour. Like, it's my work obligation that gets me to all these different places that I could like, see all of my loved ones and celebrate.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, also, like, I mean, that's a perfect example of like my mindset. Like, they came to me and they're like, okay, these are the options for your book release date. And one of them was my birthday. And I'm like, I could have had the attitude, I'm not doing that on my birthday. I want my birthday for my birthday. And da, da, da. But instead I was like, no, let's just make it all one big party. Like, let's make it, let's blow it out. And so just by kind of, you know, having that better attitude, just kind of saying, yes, even if you think, oh, that's going to be inconvenient or I'm going to be so exhausted, I don't think like that. I just think, let's get after it. It's going to like, reap its own rewards because I'm celebrating it. And agreeing to this kind of schedule around my 50th birthday, it kind of exemplifies exactly the type of person I am. You know, I hustle and I've always hustled. And that's one of the reasons why I've been able to have the kind of this success is because I don't lie around and wait for opportunities, I create them. You know, all of the stuff I do, my podcast, my books, my standup, whatever, those are all self created, you know, the reason why I've never done acting, or I have done it, but not, you know, a ton or seriously is because I don't really want anyone telling me what to do. I'm my own boss and I don't really have to answer to a lot of people. So that, that's just been such a huge advantage. And I know a lot of people don't get to experience that.

[Interview Host]

If not now, when?

[Chelsea Handler]

If not now, when I'm. When I'm 60, I guess.

[Interview Host]

All right, Chelsea, last question for you. We talked about some of our favorite stories that are in the book with Jane Fonda and your relationship with your surrogate daughters that you're a father to. If you had to pick one of your favorite stories from the book that you think people should pick it up to read, what story is your favorite or is most special to you?

[Chelsea Handler]

I think the opening chapter, little Girl, is probably most special to me because I really had to think about what I wanted when I was a little girl. Like, how did I see myself growing up as a little girl? Because I had such strong images and strong opinions about what I wanted my life to be like when I was a little girl. And I think we all can relate to that, but we don't always go back and think what we were thinking at that age. You know, I just remember from such a young age being like, I'm going to get the out of New Jersey. I am going to be such a big. I'm going to have such a big life. I'm going to have so many lovers, I'm going to have so many dogs. I'm going to have this gorgeous house. I'll probably have multiple homes. I'm going to speak a different language. Like, I had such big dreams and to know that they were possible and that I was able to make them happen. And, you know, obviously I was born with a lot of pluses in my corner. I'm white, I'm attractive, you know, all of them from a middle class neighborhood. So all of those things were huge advantages. But I hustled my ass off to make things work and to work really hard to never just be considered somebody who got lucky, you know what I mean? And to see all of that come to fruition and actually to have the mindset to reflect and go back to that little girl state of mind and remember what I had hoped and dreamed, and then to look at what I have accomplished and to understand that I've gotten there and farther or further, I should say, is pretty magical and like a Great tool for all people listening to really think about what you wanted when you were little. And are you on your way there?

[Becca Freeman]

I love that.

[Interview Host]

I think that is the perfect place for us to leave it. Thank you so much for joining us today. And for everyone listening, make sure you're picking up or pre ordering your copy of I'll have what She's Having that comes out on Chelsea's birthday, February 25. So you can read all these stories and more.

[Chelsea Handler]

Thank you, ladies. This is so nice. Thank you so much.

[Interview Host]

Thank you.

[Olivia Mentor]

Thank you. Well, let's get into some n matter. Tell me what you are obsessed with.

[Becca Freeman]

I am obsessed with a show called the Agency on Paramount. Plus, I think that we are in a golden age of spy dramas. There are so many spy dramas right now.

[Olivia Mentor]

Did you download Paramount for this? Because I have been debating this for weeks now. Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

No. So I got Paramount because I wanted to watch the Grammys last weekend and it was the only place that you can watch it the same day. And it had a week trial. So now I'm on day like five of the trial and I'm like, can I watch all of the Agency? There's only one season. It's 10 episodes. I'm like, can I watch all of this before my week trial expires? But this one is set in London. It's about a man who's coming home from a mission assignment and like, readjusting to normal life. The main character is Michael Fassbender and then his girlfriend is played by Jodie Turner Smith, who is so gorgeous and she is always wearing a full monochromatic look. That is incredible. And then his bosses are Jeffrey Wright, who I can't remember his character's name. He was the main guy from American fiction in Richard Gere. It's very good. I'm loving this era of getting these big actors who maybe would be too serious, too big for TV into these shows. Like I'm thinking of Day of the Jackal with Eddie Redmayne. It's so good.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. Do you like it better than Day of the Jackal?

[Becca Freeman]

No, but like, slightly. Slightly less. Like I'm holding my fingernails close together, like very close. Of the ones airing right now, I think my top is the Diplomat, which is slightly different. It's like spy ish, but not total spy. So I think it's like the Diplomat, Day of the Jackal, the Agency than Black Doves.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. This is an important ranking. I literally every night after dinner, I'm like, well, we could watch the Agency, but then we would have to download Paramount Plus. And Jacob's like, I don't know if it's worth it, but maybe if we're stuck inside the snowstorm this weekend, we should do the free trial.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, you should do the free trial, or you should do one month. Because there's also another show on there called Lioness with Zoe Saldana. That is, I think, another spy show.

[Olivia Mentor]

Set in the U.S. okay.

[Becca Freeman]

And so I don't know if I'm gonna have enough time to watch it. Cause I really only have two days left on this trial. And I got really butthurt this weekend about how many subscriptions I have, and I was like, I'm purging them.

[Olivia Mentor]

So I always do that. And then I immediately need one of them.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, no, absolutely.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm just like, whatever. I just live in.

[Becca Freeman]

I was so excited to cancel hbo. And then White Lotus will come back, and I will get it again.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, Jake does cancel them. Like, he goes in and he's like, we don't watch this anymore. And then every time I'm like, oh, this show is back. He's like, oh, we don't have Apple tv, Apple plus anymore, Whatever it's called. I'm like, how dare you? And then I. We have to redownload it all over again. So I just think they're all on my TV forever. I might as well add Paramount plus to the mix.

[Becca Freeman]

They're getting so expensive now, too, though.

[Olivia Mentor]

I know. It's true. And we have YouTube TV, which is very expensive, so. And we don't even watch that much tv. So, like, I don't know what we're doing, but I like to have options.

[Becca Freeman]

I hear you. What are you obsessed with?

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, I'm obsessed with this band that I've loved forever, but I'm, like, really getting into right now again. I guess it's this band called Daughter. Have you ever heard of them?

[Becca Freeman]

No. I assume it's no relation to Chris Daughtry.

[Olivia Mentor]

Absolutely not.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's a very different vibe. So I listen to them a lot in, like. Oh, this makes you feel so old. But in, like, 2012, I guess. 2012, 2013. And then throughout college and after, and I just have been watching on YouTube. I don't have Spotify downloaded on my lap. New laptop yet. So I've just been watching, like, every live performance that they did. Like, every festival from 2012 to 2017 on repeat, and. And I still love it so much. Like, it just very deeply speaks to me, and I. It's so good. She sounds like exactly the same live as she does on the record, which I just. Anyway, I just love it. It's just been nice to. To revisit something.

[Becca Freeman]

Thrilled for you.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, what have you been reading?

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my gosh. So I read the Safekeep by Yael van der Wooten. I think you specifically, Olivia, I need you to read it. The second I finished, I texted you and I was like, you need to read this book.

[Olivia Mentor]

I will. I definitely will.

[Becca Freeman]

It is. Well, first of all, I think it's a book that you should go into, both you, Olivia, and the listener. Knowing as little as possible, I think is the best way to read this.

[Olivia Mentor]

I love that. Okay, noted.

[Becca Freeman]

On the surface, it is the opposite of something I would enjoy. It is a very quiet, slow burn historical novel set in the Dutch countryside.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's a me book.

[Becca Freeman]

That's a hardcore ebook. I mean, it probably took me. It's not even a long book. It's probably like 250 pages. But it took me like two weeks to read the first half, the first two thirds of it. And I stopped and read other books in there. I was just like, I don't know, but I'd heard it came out. I think it came out last, maybe. And then all of a sudden, in December, I started hearing about this book everywhere. And I got really compelled. And when we were in Portland, they were nice enough to give us a gift card to Powell's, and I had packed so precisely that I had no room for anything. And I was like, I can get one book. And I was like, I knew when we walked in there, Olivia was like, what? What, like, book are you thinking about? Or like, what are you looking for? And I was like, I'm getting the safekeep. And I got it and I like crammed it into my suitcase. And I just heard such good things that I stuck with it because I was so curious to see why everyone loved it so much. I think I would have dnfed it otherwise, and I'm so glad I didn't.

[Olivia Mentor]

So you're gonna keep the rest of mystery though, so we can go into it?

[Becca Freeman]

Yes, absolutely. I'm not gonna tell you anything about the plot or anything I love.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, I'm gonna pick this up. I have so many books, like, I just acquiring them left and right. But this one, I'm really, really wanting to read.

[Becca Freeman]

And also, you studied abroad in college in the Netherlands, so I feel like you also will have more sense of place for this book.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, maybe. I'm really excited about it and curious now too.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. What about you? What have you been reading?

[Olivia Mentor]

So I read the Safari by Jacqueline Goldis, which is a thriller that comes out in May. This is like Imagine the family from Succession was run by a woman and they all went on a safari together. That's basically what it is, but with murder. Oh, great. So this is like a very twisty thriller. I haven't read this author before. I think Grace read her first book, I could be getting that wrong, called the Chateau, and really loved it. It's just, like, very twisty, very turny. Every time I was like, okay, the twists are done. There was another one. And I, like. I read it in basically 24 hours. I couldn't stop reading it. So it was very fun. And then I also read the Reformatory by Tananarive Due. And this book I have heard nothing but wonderful things about has a 4.5 rating on Goodreads, which is among the highest I've ever seen. And it is long. It is like, maybe 400 pages long. It's very, very chunky. This is. I don't know. I wouldn't describe it as horror, to be honest. It's a ghost story, and there are some scary parts, but it's very, very light on the horror. This is set in the 1950s, I believe, in Florida at this boys school. And it centers around this young black boy who is basically, like, convicted of doing this thing that, like, he was provoked to do and unfairly sent to this boys school that is really dark and twisted and the people in charge are abusive. And basically he starts seeing ghosts, and then he becomes in charge of, like, hunting the ghosts. Not necessarily something on the surface. Like, from the description, I'd be like, that's a me book. But I love this. It's so well done. I couldn't stop reading it. I think I also read this in, like, two days. And it's so, so long. But it's just. It's a wonderful book. Like, I understand why everyone loves it because it's just incredibly well done. And it's based on this real school in Florida that has this absolutely horrific history. And so it was just. It was a very poignant read, and I totally get now why everyone loves it. It was very, very good.

[Becca Freeman]

Do you happen to know it's not the same school from the Colson Whitehead novel, is it? Because isn't that also based on a school in Florida?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, it is. I could be getting this wrong, but I think it's called the Dozier School for Boys. And it's very possible it could be the same school because, yes, like, lots of boys died there mysteriously. They were buried there. And it's just a very, very dark history. And yes, I think that's similar to what Nickel Boys is about, but totally different. Like, angle.

[Becca Freeman]

Yes, it's based on the same. It's based on the same school.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, really? Yeah. So I read both of these books and I would say they're both disturbing, but, like, because this has the ghost story aspect, it feels a little different, I guess. But both great books and obviously just like a really horrible part of our history that I think is still important to acknowledge.

[Becca Freeman]

Absolutely. I also have to comment that I don't know if this is just happenstance or there's a very strong trend with the titles of the books we read. It's the Safari, the Reformatory, the Safekeep. Like the. And then a kind of like vague two to three syllable word.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, maybe it's a title trend.

[Becca Freeman]

I know. I was just looking at it in the outline and I was like, oh.

[Olivia Mentor]

Wow, I didn't notice that. That is very interesting.

[Becca Freeman]

Also, I have now realized that the Reformatory is five syllables.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, yeah, that's a lot of syllables.

[Becca Freeman]

That's a lot of syllables. But anyway, pitch us on our February book club pick, Olivia.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. So our February book club pick is Isola by Allegra Goodman. Also, I will just like to say, also, Reese Witherspoon's book club pick. I did not know that when I chose it.

[Becca Freeman]

You picked it first. Reese is following you first.

[Olivia Mentor]

I was the trendsetter here. This book, I have described it as ever after meets Robinson Crusoe meets Titanic.

[Becca Freeman]

That is a very compelling description.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's a little bit of everything. Ultimately, I think the heart of it, it's a survival story. It's about this young woman in the. I really need to determine whether it's the 1500s or the 1600s, but one of those. And she sets out on this ship going to Canada from France, the New World. And basically, after a series of events, she ends up marooned on this island, Canada, with her lover and her lady in waiting. And they have to survive there. It's based on a true story of sorts. I can't wait to discuss that. And it's completely immersive. It's like my version of fantasy, which is that I was just fully in this world and it resembled my life exactly zero percent. But I loved it. And there are polar bears, which I feel. I feel is important to mention every time I agree.

[Becca Freeman]

So yeah, I'm excited to check this out. If you would like to talk to us about anything from this episode or anything book related, or anything not book related, join us in the Facebook group. Join us in the Geneva group. Follow us on Instagram @BatonPaper Podcast I am on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter is @beccafreeman.substack.com if you'd like to sign up.

[Olivia Mentor]

I am oliviamentor on Instagram substack, wherever you'd like to find me.

[Becca Freeman]

And we'll see you next week.

[Olivia Mentor]

Bye.