How the Pod Sausage Gets Made

Summary

Bad On Paper: Episode Summary - "How the Pod Sausage Gets Made"

Release Date: October 9, 2024
Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter

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1. Introduction to "Pod Sausage"

In this episode titled "How the Pod Sausage Gets Made," hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter delve into the inner workings of their podcast, sharing personal highs and lows, discussing the podcast production process, and reflecting on its impact on their professional lives.

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2. Personal Highs and Lows

Olivia's High:
Olivia shares a charming story about her office renovation, where her partner found tiny kitten paw prints embedded in a century-old brick.

“Maybe I'll start calling it Kitten Brick Cottage... I just had to talk about it because I'm continuously delighted by it.”
[01:13]

Olivia's Low:
She opens up about her struggle with self-worth after stepping back from influencer roles, highlighting the challenge of finding inherent self-validation beyond external achievements.

“Whatever I think it is that is going to make me feel okay about myself... is just never the thing.”
[07:00]

Becca's High:
Becca recounts attending a Netflix premiere for "Lonely Planet" starring Laura Dern and Liam Hemsworth, an experience that made her feel both excited and like an intruder.

“I felt like such an intruder, but it was so fun.”
[04:56]

Becca's Low:
She discusses a significant rent increase of $300 per month, expressing frustration and the fear of potential relocation.

“If I could get a two-year lease, then at least I know I have that amount of security.”
[10:27]

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3. Reflections on the Podcast Journey

Becca's Gratitude:
Becca expresses deep appreciation for the podcast's role in her life, emphasizing its social and community-building aspects.

“It's really the most social and group-oriented aspect of my job... it fundamentally has transformed my life.”
[15:01]

Olivia's Growth:
Olivia reflects on her increased confidence in public speaking and the joy the podcast brings to her life.

“I really can't explain enough how much joy and happiness the podcast has brought into my life and confidence.”
[17:39]

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4. The Podcast Production Process

Planning and Scheduling:
The hosts plan their episodes months in advance, maintaining a content calendar through the end of the year. Recording typically takes place on Thursdays at 3 PM, allowing for timely reactions to previous episodes.

“We usually record Thursdays at 3 PM as our standing block.”
[23:11]

Editing and Division of Labor:
An editor named Brian handles the post-production, removing any verbal stumbles and unnecessary tangents. Becca manages business-related tasks, while Olivia focuses on advertising and social media.

“Brian cuts out any mess-ups... So that's like an hour, an hour and a half.”
[25:46]

Team Support:
Additional support comes from Maddie, who manages social media and episode uploads, and Courtney, who handles advertising.

“Maddie also takes care of uploading everything.”
[26:10]

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5. Challenges with the Book Club Format

Evolving Selection Process:
Originally, both hosts would read and agree upon book selections months in advance. This became untenable as their personal projects grew, leading to an alternating selection system where sometimes they choose books they haven’t read beforehand.

“About 50% of the time we're picking books that we've read, and 50% we haven't.”
[32:07]

Balancing Popularity and Hidden Gems:
They struggle to balance selecting mainstream, popular books that ensure higher engagement with introducing lesser-known titles that could offer unique discussions.

“We have more mainstays occurring to mainstream books though.”
[39:11]

Potential Solutions:
Becca proposes hiring a selection team to screen books, but acknowledges the logistical challenges and the importance of maintaining trust in their recommendations.

“Maybe just like, have a handful of people who have reading for us... it's tricky.”
[34:07]

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6. Navigating Guest Appearances

Mixed Feelings About Guests:
Olivia remains neutral about featuring guests, appreciating the conversations but not feeling a strong imperative to include them.

“I'm so neutral that it's hard for me to fight one way or the other.”
[40:31]

Challenges with Guest Selection:
Becca finds it difficult to cater to diverse listener preferences regarding guests, as opinions on who to feature vary widely.

“In theory, but there doesn't seem to be strong consensus around who those guests are.”
[42:00]

Successful Guest Interactions:
They highlight a positive experience with Emily Henry, who effectively diverted the conversation away from her book, making for a refreshing interview.

“With Emily Henry, she had no need to bring up her book. She was our failure interviewers.”
[44:24]

Dream Guests:
Both hosts share aspirations for future guests, including high-profile authors like Ryan Gosling, Dolly Alderton, Ashley Audrain, and even Oprah.

“My number one guest of all time would be Oprah.”
[69:12]

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7. Addressing Growth and Sustainability

Plateauing Audience:
Becca expresses frustration over stagnant growth since 2020, recognizing the challenges of attracting new listeners in a saturated podcast market.

“We're only just refilling the bucket at this point. We're not growing, which has been frustrating.”
[61:02]

Strategies for Expansion:
Ideas include experimenting with video-recorded episodes for platforms like TikTok, hosting occasional live shows, and enhancing community engagement through in-person book clubs.

“I do want to experiment with video episodes and maybe do some live shows.”
[73:53]

Internal Struggles:
Both hosts grapple with imposter syndrome and the pressure to continuously grow, balancing personal satisfaction with professional aspirations.

“Why do I need constant statistics and growth... Why is that the key?”
[61:36]

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8. The Podcast's Impact on Their Writing Careers

Becca's Perspective:
Becca credits the podcast with securing her literary agent and facilitating her book deals, highlighting the platform's role in her professional growth.

“I got my agent because she knew about me from the podcast and social media.”
[49:33]

Olivia's Experience:
Olivia acknowledges that her success as an author is deeply intertwined with her podcast, feeling that the platform is essential for her career trajectory.

“100% positive that would not be possible without this platform.”
[52:07]

Overcoming Self-Doubt:
Both hosts discuss overcoming feelings of inadequacy and recognizing the unique value their podcast brings to their careers, despite moments of self-doubt.

“I do feel confident that I have worked harder on my books than anything else I’ve ever done.”
[53:53]

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9. Fostering Community and Future Initiatives

Building Connections:
The Geneva group and Facebook community play pivotal roles in fostering connections among listeners, likened to a large group chat where members support each other.

“It's a very inclusive, open environment... that's really what matters to me.”
[60:21]

Encouraging In-Person Book Clubs:
Becca emphasizes the importance of transitioning the online community to real-life interactions, offering practical tips for starting local book clubs.

“Here’s how you should do it... commit to planning one meeting.”
[64:07]

Dreaming Big:
Both hosts dream of expanding their podcast’s influence, envisioning collaborations with renowned authors and enhancing community engagement through various mediums.

“I wish our book club had that level of cachet, brand cachet and trust.”
[62:14]

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10. Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

In concluding the episode, the hosts reiterate their commitment to the podcast and their listeners, sharing personal obsessions and upcoming book club selections. They encourage ongoing engagement through their Geneva and Facebook groups, fostering a sense of belonging among their audience.

“If you want to talk to us about anything, the podcast, whatever, you can talk to us in our Geneva group or in our Facebook group.”
[82:41]

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Notable Quotes

• Becca Freeman:

  “Wherever you go, there you are.”
  [08:55]

• Olivia Muenter:

  “This is my year of working through some things... I'm in the swamp of feelings.”
  [07:00]

• Becca Freeman:

  “The podcast fundamentally has transformed my life in a lot of ways that I'm really grateful for.”
  [15:01]

• Olivia Muenter:

  “I have moments of imposter syndrome. Do I only have this not because I'm a good writer, but because I have some sort of a following?”
  [53:27]

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Conclusion

"How the Pod Sausage Gets Made" offers an intimate glimpse into the dynamics of creating and sustaining a successful podcast. Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter candidly discuss their personal struggles and triumphs, the meticulous process behind each episode, and the profound impact the podcast has had on their careers and lives. Through their transparency and humor, they provide valuable insights for aspiring podcasters and authors alike, all while reinforcing the strength of their dedicated community.

Transcript

[Olivia]

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bow Paper Podcast. I'm Olivia, Mentor.

[Becca Freeman]

And I'm Becca Freeman.

[Olivia]

And are we calling this Pod Sausage?

[Becca Freeman]

That's what it is in my head.

[Olivia]

This is the title that Becca put in the outline, and it made me laugh so hard. Yeah. This is a State of the Pod. Pod Sausage. How the Pod Sausage Gets Made episode.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, that makes it sound like we have some, like, big, scary announcement that we're quitting the podcast or something. Spoiler. We're not. We're just talking about how we think it's going and what's on our mind, podcast wise. I don't know. It'll be interesting.

[Olivia]

Imagine if we were doing that and then the title was Pod Sausage and.

[Becca Freeman]

People are like, sausage.

[Olivia]

No, it'll be good things. Reflective, fun.

[Becca Freeman]

It'll be interesting. I don't think we've had some of these conversations offline either, so, yeah, I'm excited. Well, before we get into the Pod Sausage, what is your high, which is equally obscure, to be fair to me.

[Olivia]

Yes. So my high that I listed in the outline is just kitten brick, two words. Kitten and brick, and which I think is a delightful pairing of words. Yes. It's a good thing. It's a high. So Jake's been working on my office, the cottage out back, and currently he's working on the hearth. I guess that's how you pronounce it, basically, like the brick area where the wood burning stove will go. And so he's been creating it with just bricks we found around the property. There's a lot of bricks. Not really sure why, slightly unsettling, but they're everywhere. So the other day he was working on it and he came inside and he said, you got to come see this. So I walk outside and he had found this brick, and in the corner of the brick is the most tiny kitten paw prints in the entire world. And I was so delighted by the idea that, like, hundreds of years ago. This is a really old brick, by the way, but a hundred years ago, whatever, someone found a kitten or had a kitten, and they took its little paws and they pressed it into this brick, and now it just exists. So anyway, maybe I'll start calling it Kitten Brick Cottage, which kitten? Brick does sound like a town in Maine that exists, but it is just the most. They're so small. I don't think it's from a kitten, just, like, stepping on it because they're so light. I feel like someone had to have taken the little paws and, like, press them into the brick. And humans are Just so adorable. I did put a video of it in my old home channel on Instagram, but I'm also going to put it in a video when I do my cottage renovation update at some point, but I just had to talk about it because, like, I'm continuously delighted by it. I'm going to keep it in the cottage somewhere prominent so I can just look at it and smile all the time.

[Becca Freeman]

Are you a cat person?

[Olivia]

I. I'm, like, neutral on cats.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia]

I've had cats I've loved in my life. I've had cats I've been like, you don't like me. I feel okay about you. I don't know.

[Becca Freeman]

Maybe this is a sign I'd be.

[Olivia]

Open to getting a cat. Maybe it is. Maybe I'll have a cottage kitten.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I feel like you should get it before Halloween because somebody in the Geneva group said that they have a black kitten who they are making be a bat for Halloween.

[Olivia]

That's very cute. You do love animals dressed as other animals.

[Becca Freeman]

I do.

[Olivia]

That was specifically for you.

[Becca Freeman]

I do.

[Olivia]

Maybe I will.

[Becca Freeman]

Wow. Big news.

[Olivia]

Who knows? Stay tuned. Watch this space. You don't know what's coming, but for now, I'll have my break, which I will like. Anyway. What is your high?

[Becca Freeman]

So my high is that I got invited to this event that I frankly have no idea how I got invited to and probably didn't belong there, But Netflix invited me to this, like, special screening slash premiere for this new movie they have called Lonely Planet with Laura Dern and Liam Hemsworth. And I get invited to a decent amount of, like, movie screenings, advanced screenings, things like that, which is such a fun perk of my job, having a social media platform, et cetera. Like, you know, we went to go see We Live In Time the other weekend. We got to see it, like, a month early, and I thought that that's what this was. And then the day before, I get a email, and it had, like, red carpet instructions, and it, like, became clear to me that also the cast was going to be there. And I was like, oh, this is very. This is very different. And so I got to go to this event. I don't know. I felt like such an intruder, but it was so fun. It was at the Whitby Hotel. They have a screening room in their basement. And I brought my friend Caitlin, and she was gagging. She could not believe that there was a movie theater in the basement of this hotel.

[Olivia]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. And so we got there, and they have popcorn and drinks and whatever and we go into the theater, and they're like, it's open seating except for the seats that have reserved signs on them. And so there was a seat that was like. There were three seats in a row that just said Liam Hemsworth. And we're like, we'll sit in front of this.

[Olivia]

Wait, so you just sat, like, behind him the entire time?

[Becca Freeman]

We sat in front, but he didn't sit for the movie. They came and they, like, waved and said hi. I can understand that. I don't think if I were an actor, I would want to watch my movie in a theater of people.

[Olivia]

People watching you watch yourself.

[Becca Freeman]

Exactly.

[Olivia]

Is not something I would want either. To be fair to Liam Hemsworth. Yeah, that does make sense.

[Becca Freeman]

It was so fun. The movie's about a woman who's an author who goes on this writing retreat in Morocco, and that's Laura Dern. And Liam Hemsworth is the boyfriend of this kind of like, newbie baby writer. And him and Laura Dern have a connection. And it's a. You know, it's an age gap romance. You should not see it because there is a strong plotline of somebody losing unbacked up work.

[Olivia]

Oh, too triggering. I thought you were gonna say a plane crash. No, similar feeling. Really? No, but okay, good to know. Good to know.

[Becca Freeman]

But it was so fun. And then afterwards, there was this little reception, and I didn't have the courage to go up and talk to either of them, but they were kind of just floating around the room. I'm in the background, probably of a lot of photos of Laura Dern.

[Olivia]

I saw your red carpet shots. It was great. I was waiting for the photo of you guys together. I was like, oh, my gosh, I should have gone to this.

[Becca Freeman]

It was the first time I've ever done a red carpet. I don't know. I felt like it was great. I shouldn't be here, but at the same time, I'm not gonna say no. It was so fun and glitzy, and I was like, oh, this isn't somewhere I expected to find myself.

[Olivia]

It sounds very fun. I actually do wanna see this movie. It just seems like something I would really like. Well, it's other than that part.

[Becca Freeman]

It's a Netflix movie, so I think it comes out October 11th, and you can watch it on your couch.

[Olivia]

Oh, I can't wait. Not with Liam Hemsworth.

[Becca Freeman]

But he's not gonna be sitting behind you. No, but he also didn't sit behind me, even though he was supposed to, so.

[Olivia]

But then afterwards. Afterwards he was right there. So you win. But I'm glad you did that. It sounds really fun.

[Becca Freeman]

It was. What about on the low side?

[Olivia]

The low. I don't know. You know how there's that one Kylie Jenner quote that's like, this has been the year of figuring out things, or whatever it is. I'd probably butcher that.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm not really familiar with the Tao of Kylie Jenner, but I trust you anyway.

[Olivia]

It's something along those lines. That's the essence of it, anyway. And I think this is my year of working through some things, and I think the biggest thing. Maybe I wasn't gonna talk about this because I don't really have any succinct thoughts on it, but whatever. This is my low. This is what I'm dealing with. I feel like for a long time, like, the way I felt good about myself was Instagram, which is really sad. And when I stepped away from doing a lot of influencer stuff, I think without really realizing it, I was like, well, book stuff is just going to fill this void, and I'm going to feel worth it and important and, like, I matter because of, you know, book sales or a book deal or accolades, whatever. And I'm just at this point of realizing that, like, whatever I think it is that is going to make me feel okay about myself. Like, the book deal, the money, the sales, the title, the success, the paycheck, the salary, whatever it is, is just never the thing. You know, it never. Like, it never saves me from myself. Like, I always had this point where I'm. Like, I have whatever it is I wanted, and I don't feel good enough still. Still. And that's so real. I think I'm.

[Becca Freeman]

It's like, wherever you go, there you are.

[Olivia]

Exactly. Exactly. And so it's just been a year of, like, changes in my career, which I've talked about. And I think I'm just at this point where I realized, like, you've got to just. Like, you. You've got to just believe inherently, you have worth, Olivia. You cannot keep putting it on all of these other things. And I think Instagram kind of allowed me to distract myself from all of that, because it was like, I had constant approval and validation and likes and whatever, and it created this vacuum where something else just took its place. And I think something else always will unless I really just do the work to feel okay. And that work is very hard. It's very hard and endless. And so I'm in the work. I'm in the swamp of feelings. I don't know. So yeah, that's. That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at. It's hard.

[Becca Freeman]

I can identify in some ways, I feel like I have been rocked this year by getting a lot of value out of my ability to be productive and to feel competent at my job. And I don't right now. And that's been a big challenge for how I see myself. So it's not quite the same. Feeling similar, feeling different font, but I get it. Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

[Olivia]

It's tough, but I guess that's life. That's like figuring out how to feel okay by yourself. Like when everything else is stripped away, like all the work, the productivity, the whatever. Yeah, it's hard. But tell me about your low.

[Becca Freeman]

Mine is much more concrete. I know where to point the finger. I just got hit with a rent increase, which is so.

[Olivia]

No. Is it a big one?

[Becca Freeman]

It's annoying. It's like $300 a month.

[Olivia]

That adds up to like. That's quite significant.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I've heard people getting larger rent increases, but it's not nothing.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Becca Freeman]

Ugh. Thank you. I mean, it doesn't make sense for me to move, so I think I just have to eat it. I'm trying to leverage it to get a two year lease because I. If you remember, they were trying to sell my apartment building back in 2022 and they took it off the market, but they said they were going to relist it at some point. And so I've kind of just lived in fear that that's going to come back around at any moment. So, you know, if I could get a two year lease, then at least I know I have that amount of security.

[Olivia]

That's smart. I wouldn't even have thought to do that. But that's a good idea.

[Becca Freeman]

We'll see. I haven't heard back on it yet, but. Yeah, it just stinks that it's. What's 300 times 12? $3,600 a year in rent.

[Olivia]

That's a lot.

[Becca Freeman]

That's a lot.

[Olivia]

Ugh, what a bummer.

[Becca Freeman]

But I love my apartment and it would cost me more than $3,600 to move also.

[Olivia]

Moving is like agony.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

So in every possible way. Especially in the city, I'm sure, like, finding a new place, so. Oh, well, I'm sorry.

[Becca Freeman]

It's okay. It's not your fault.

[Olivia]

What if it was? What if I was like. Actually, honestly, Olivia, I am the new owner of the building. I am the Monopoly Man.

[Becca Freeman]

I think that could Undo our friendship. If you had secretly bought my building and then raised my rent.

[Olivia]

What if that was my high? Surprise. Actually, this is so surprised.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm your landlord.

[Olivia]

Actually, I couldn't find validation, so I bought an apartment building in Brooklyn.

[Becca Freeman]

Wow. Well, let's take an ad break and get to the pod. Sausage.

[Olivia]

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[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia]

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[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia]

Hello, I'm talk sausage. What were you gonna say?

[Becca Freeman]

I was gonna say hello, I'm here for the sausage.

[Olivia]

Sausage on the mind. We'll start with the big picture question. Yeah, the big picture sausage question. I just want to insert the word sausage into everything. Now it's a problem.

[Becca Freeman]

We're taking this serious topic and we're gonna make it so unserious.

[Olivia]

Becca, how are you feeling about the podcast right now? You've been doing this for almost seven years?

[Becca Freeman]

Six and a half.

[Olivia]

Wow. See, I can never figure out how long I've been doing it, so that is so wild to me.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, you've been doing it since April of 2022. So you'll be going on three years in April.

[Olivia]

Oh, wow. My gosh. It goes by so fast. Wow, wow, wow.

[Becca Freeman]

The kids grow up fast.

[Olivia]

Thank you for keeping track of that, because I was clearly like, what year is it? Where am I? What's happening? Yes. Okay. Seven years. How are you?

[Becca Freeman]

I'm good. And I'm really grateful. So I guess a new realization that I had this year is that the podcast is really the most social and group oriented aspect of my job, which is something that I think I really miss from working in house or other iterations of my career. And so I've realized that I'm really grateful for that outlet and having this fun thing where I can come and talk to you, I can talk to other people in the Geneva group. Like, it's just so much more interactive than other aspects of my career, which I value. I'm also so obsessed with the community. I feel like we have more community than ever with the Geneva Group, which makes me so excited because sometimes we get on these zooms and I see your lovely face and there's just a blank wall in front of me, and it doesn't feel like thousands of people are gonna hear it. And, you know, sometimes people DM me or whatnot. But I love active conversation going in the Geneva group, and I love that it's also not dependent on us. Like, people are talking to each other, which makes me really proud. Yeah, I feel really good about it. Also, I cannot underestimate the fact that I do think the podcast is such a fork in the road moment in my life that has changed my life so completely that I think my life would look incredibly different if I had never said yes to Grace about doing the podcast. Like, I don't know that I would have written a book. I don't know that I would still be working for myself in some capacity. Like, I think maybe I would have gone back in house. I wouldn't have this following. I wouldn't have this newsletter. Like, it fundamentally has transformed my life in a lot of ways that I'm really grateful for. What about you, though? How are you currently feeling about the podcast?

[Olivia]

I feel good about it. I mean, I think it's so fun. I feel like. I mean, this is down the outline, so we might get to it, but I feel like I've evolved a lot in terms of how comfortable I feel talking, you know, just putting it out there into the world, having opinions and trusting myself about, like, who I am and what I'm saying.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, let's talk about that now.

[Olivia]

I'm quite nervous. Yeah. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

I remember you saying when you first started doing it how nervous you were and, like, you were stressed about recording. Do you still feel any of that?

[Olivia]

No.

[Becca Freeman]

Good.

[Olivia]

I would say still, there are some times where I'm like, oh, maybe I didn't word that the right way. But more often than not, I'll listen back to the episode and I'll be like, you're fine, Olivia. Like, you're good. You're doing your best. You're not saying anything wildly offensive. You're fine. At least not on purpose, of course, but I love it. I can't explain enough, like, how much joy and happiness, like, the podcast has brought into my life and confidence, I think. And like, you were saying as well, like, just having the structure to my week, like, okay, checking in with my coworker, you know, I'm talking to my friend. Like, doing this thing is just really nice. It's very nice.

[Becca Freeman]

Do you have a specific high and low of the podcast this year?

[Olivia]

I love meeting people in real life that listen. So anytime at a book event or anything, I have met someone who listens. It feels so cool to me. Cause it's just like, similarly to the Geneva group, which I'm also, as you know, deeply obsessed with and, like, enmeshed.

[Becca Freeman]

With at all times, potentially, it's more than me. And you were the holdout at first. Do you remember? It took you, like, three or four weeks to join it.

[Olivia]

I know, I know. And look at me now. I'm Queen of Geneva, or not even queen. Just, like, part of the. Like, I love that. It feels just like a gigantic group chat that I have with my friends, you know, with people who care about the same things. That's. That's why I love the community so much. So I would say anytime that I've gotten to connect with listeners, the event, like you and I did for my book, meeting people in person, the Geneva group, definitely my high, my low. I mean, I feel like anytime I get the sense or I pick up or I hear or it comes to the grapevine or whatever that people are unhappy with something or. Or they Want less of something or more of something, I feel. I mean, we'll get into all of this, but it's hard to know what the right choice is. You know, you want to evolve, you want to be creative, and you want to try new things. At the same time, you don't want to change what you're doing to every comment and whim, because then that would be unsustainable. So that's a really tough thing to manage, I think, with content creation in any form. What about you?

[Becca Freeman]

So I think my high was getting to launch your book and getting to do the book club episode around your book. Like, I'm so grateful for getting to do that for mine. And it was so exciting to get to do it for years. And I feel like you've been a little more reticent to talk yourself up or to really even talk about the book and the process of writing it. So it was so exciting to get to dive into all the behind the scenes and to get to break down the characters and hear everything about what you were thinking and wanting to get across. So I think that was really fun.

[Olivia]

Thank you. That was fun. I appreciate that. And all of the support you've shown me, it's really made a huge difference in my mental health, among other things.

[Becca Freeman]

Honestly. My pleasure. And then I think my low is very similar to what you said. And specifically, you might remember that I stumbled on a Reddit thread about the podcast back in April when I was already in a pretty low place with a bunch of other things going on. And, you know, that's always existed. I generally have a pretty good relationship with not looking at those types of things, but it got me. When I was in a vulnerable place, I kind of went back to the beginning of the year. There's weekly threads, and I was so shocked to see that we'd become such a frequent topic of conversation and generally not in a positive light that, like, really shook me.

[Olivia]

Yeah, this was not great for me either, I will be honest, but I didn't want to bring it up in case it upset you. But since then, it's been a few months now, right? I don't know. I can't.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I think that was probably late April or early May.

[Olivia]

How do you feel about that now? Has it changed how you interact with anything? Did it teach you anything? Like, where are you with that?

[Becca Freeman]

I feel like it's gotten slightly quieter and it feels less stingy with time. I haven't gone back to look, and I. I don't doubt that it still is Ongoing, but I don't need to know about it. I do think that for a while it made me second guess a lot of things. I still think it's in the back of my head and I still think it's affecting me, but it feels further back in my brain. It doesn't feel at the forefront. Who knows if that's good or bad?

[Olivia]

Yeah, I think that's good.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, maybe in the name of the sausage, we can walk people through how an episode gets made. Also tell them about the other people who help us make that, because it isn't just us.

[Olivia]

Oh, yeah, there are a lot of people. If I was editing these episodes, God knows what you would get. It would be bad.

[Becca Freeman]

I also think that when we stopped editing the podcast episodes ourself very early on, way back when Grace was the co host in year one, probably, it made me have a much more positive relationship with how I came across. Because I think it's really nerve wracking to edit the podcast yourself and to have to listen to all your verbal stumbles and be like, oh my God, I'm such an idiot. Look how much I'm messing up.

[Olivia]

Yes. Even just listening to it back the one time we have to before it goes out into the world is hard for me sometimes. I think I'm used to hearing my own voice now. But anyway, we'll probably get to that when we talk about the process. So do you want to break it down for people? Should we go back and forth? How do you want to do this?

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know. I mean, I can do it and jump in wherever. Well, I guess I'm curious. How much time would you say you spend per week on the podcast?

[Olivia]

Well, let's see. I mean, I think we end up recording for probably two hours because we end up talking before and. Or after. Then maybe an hour of like admin stuff, like writing ads, sharing stuff, and then, I don't know, I'd say that's about it.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, we also. Okay, I'll walk into that.

[Olivia]

I mean, then any outlining or whatever? Four to five hours a week. Does that sound right to you?

[Becca Freeman]

I was gonna say like five to six, but yeah, I think in that ballpark. So. So basically, we have been planning our episodes. We actually are planned. We sat down in September and we had a big brainstorm and we planned out our episodes through the end of the year. So we already have our content calendar locked in. And usually if we're having a guest on, I feel like we try to make those asks about one to two months in advance to get those on the calendar. And so yeah, we usually have a pretty good sense of what we're going to do about a month in advance. And the week of the episode, I would say one of us goes in and does the outline. And that takes longer for book club, but for a non book club episode, I would say it probably takes half an hour for the person who does the brunt of it and maybe 15 minutes for the person who does less that week. And there's no formal division of like every other week. It's kind of just like sometimes it's whose idea the episode was or sometimes it's who's more available or who gets to it first. And I don't mind that work at all. I don't mind most of the work with a podcast.

[Olivia]

I feel like it's all pretty doable. It's maybe not as structured as people would think. So that's why it's hard for me to calculate the time. Cause it's like there are random emails and random tasks, but. But it's not like it's batched into a certain hour of a day or something. It's kind of. It's kind of fluid, I guess.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. So I would say that usually happens on Wednesday or Thursday is like the start of a new episode. We usually record on Thursday. My goal is always to get it as close to air as possible. And I like recording on Thursday because we already have reaction to the last week's episode. So if we want to address anything or add on, we're able to. And then, yeah, we usually record Thursdays at 3pm as our standing block. And then after we finish recording, we send it to our editor, Brian, who I think cuts out all of the times when we're recording, when we mention him or give him little notes or talk to him in the recording.

[Olivia]

It's actually fun because when we're recording, if we say something and we don't like it, we just kind of say like, okay, Brian, can you cut that? Or can you clean that up? Or whatever. And it's like we're having a conversation with someone that I don't think we've actually ever had a voice to voice conversation with, let alone face to face.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh yeah, that would be interesting. I have no idea what Brian's voice sounds like, but he is intimately familiar with our voices.

[Olivia]

Brian could be AI, I don't think.

[Becca Freeman]

We don't know AI.

[Olivia]

He has a good sense of humor, but. But so does some AI. So, you know, you never know these days.

[Becca Freeman]

But anyway, what a long con. You. You bought my building. Brian's AI. I'm learning a lot this episode.

[Olivia]

Everything is a simulation.

[Becca Freeman]

I would say probably like 50% of the time. Brian gets us the episode back by sometime on Friday.

[Olivia]

He's very fast.

[Becca Freeman]

He's a speed demon, which I so appreciate. And so I usually try to listen to the episode over the weekend. Both of us listen to every episode before it airs. If we want to make any additional changes or cuts outside.

[Olivia]

Yeah, but you can technically do other things. So.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, so that's like an hour, an hour and a half. Especially if there's like cuts I want to make. And I try to give him timestamps of where I want him to cut to make it easy. Usually on Monday night, Maddie, who does our social media and comes up with the copy for our episodes in Apple podcasts or in Spotify. She sends us over a document for the week with the social media post and the post copy and then the graphics and the episode description and title and we make any edits there and then. Yeah, I think there's like general admin of. And Maddie also takes care of uploading everything. And then there's also general admin of ad. So we have a woman named Courtney, who you may know Courtney because she also does ads for Kate Kennedy, which is how we got introduced to her from Be There in Five. And I feel like Courtney gets talked about a lot on that podcast. So you might have heard Courtney talked about on another one of your favorite podcasts. And yeah, we have a monthly meeting with Courtney, but I feel like outside of that, we probably talk to Courtney on email like two or three times a week about different things for advertisers and things like that.

[Olivia]

How often do you think we, like send our notes back to Brian and we say cut something? I feel like it would be less than people think.

[Becca Freeman]

I think so too. I mean, Brian cuts out any stumbles. I would say especially in any ad there is at least five start overs and we script them. But I. Yeah, like we have trouble reading aloud. So he cuts out that. He cuts out any verbal tics. He cuts out any mess ups. So that already is like baked in. I would say once a month we have something larger that we want to have him cut. Something that one of us regrets saying. Sometimes I even do it for the episode is long and I'm like, I just went on this stupid tangent and why did I say that? Like, this is unnecessary.

[Olivia]

But it's pretty. I mean, it's pretty Rare.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. I would say you're mostly getting exactly what the recording is, but without the mess ups.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Or just like the 30 minutes of talking afterwards that we sometimes accidentally just keep recording and Brian gets to listen to that and then cut it. But this is actually something that really has surprised me about doing the podcast is I really expected every episode. And maybe this goes back to, like, my confidence growing as a podcaster or whatever. I really expected every episode I would listen and be like, gotta cut six minutes of Olivia's talking. It's horrible. I don't know why I'm talking about myself in third person, but yeah, I think for the most part it's like you're hearing exactly how it is.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I think that's probably different for other podcasts that are more scripted or produced or more topical. But I think what people tend to like about our podcast is that it feels off the cuff and that it feels like you're eavesdropping on a conversation that your friends are having. So, you know, we leave most of it in. Do you want to walk people through what the general division of labor is on the podcast? Because in addition to, like, the week to week stuff, we both also have other things that are, like, ours to own.

[Olivia]

Sure. Well, you handle all the, like, business y stuff. I do, so the ads and the like, analytics stuff. I think partially that's just because I came in late and so you had all this stuff and you were already doing it. And I have no desire to, like, become that person. So I'm very thankful that you're good at it. I do the ads. I took over that fully after Becca handled the majority of the merch, which was such a huge project, and I was so grateful. So I was like, I'll just do ads from now on.

[Becca Freeman]

You do our website?

[Olivia]

Well, I sometimes.

[Becca Freeman]

You might have just outsourced that to Courtney.

[Olivia]

I try to, like, it's on my calendar every week, but it ends up being about every other week to once a month I'll update the book club list or the ads, which that I tend to fall behind on the ads because it changes more frequently. I share it in the Geneva group and the Facebook group. And I'm the one who like, does those question slides in the Facebook group, which very hard to come up with sometimes. Let me tell you, sometimes I'm like, I've got nothing this week. You do a great job. It's always fun to see what hits. Thank you. I think those were your idea, but, like, they've been such an Interesting. Community building, like, conversation starting part of it. Like you said, we kind of share the outlines and we sort of don't split it up evenly necessarily, but more based on who's available, who's. I would say, like, some of it is based on who's, like, really stressed or, like, having a hard time. Like, the other person kind of just picks it up without the other one having to even ask a lot of times, which I feel like is really nice. Have I covered it all? I know there's definitely a lot I'm forgetting.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I still do the merch stuff. If there's any errors with the orders or the sales tax stuff and getting that set up and everything like that. I had to reconcile our QuickBooks this morning, which is fast. It's not hard.

[Olivia]

Well, it would be hard for me. I'm grateful that you do that stuff.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I can't think of any other buckets of stuff we do. You know, we're both in the Geneva group, both in the Facebook group.

[Olivia]

I feel like it works.

[Becca Freeman]

What about book club stuff? Because I think this has changed this year specifically. So I have a huge chip on my shoulder about this. And I feel like I used to be so intense about. We used to try to both agree and read the book in advance. And so, you know, like three months in advance, I would be screening books and trying to figure out what we wanted the book club pick to be. And this year we've changed it. It just became untenable. Last year where I had my book coming out, you were finishing your book. I don't know, it just kind of went off the rails. And so we started this year doing. Every other month we alternate who picks the book. And I think more often than not, and I don't know how I feel about this, I would say about 50% of the time we're picking the book and we've already read it, and 50% of the time we're picking a book and we haven't read it. How do you feel like that's working?

[Olivia]

Okay, so I have a lot of thoughts about this because I am usually the person who hasn't read it, which. Which sometimes doesn't work well because then you're committed to the book, you've picked it, and then it maybe isn't the best for conversation. I feel like we always make it work, but just some books are easier to talk about than others, and it's really hard to know without reading it first if it works. However, I just haven't found a way to Screen books efficiently that are new. Like, if it was just we opened it up to all backlists and it was like, any book, it doesn't have to be one that's come out recently, which I feel like we, for the most part, try to do one that's come out first week of that month or the month before. And sometimes I just don't have the time to call in those books. You are much better about that than I am. And I feel like going into a book club without having read the book before choosing it is like how most book clubs work. Like, social book clubs, not celebrity book clubs.

[Becca Freeman]

Right.

[Olivia]

So I feel like, you know, in an ideal world, we would be a celebrity book club where we're screening all of them.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, the way that a celebrity book club works is they have scouts or they have people who are screening the books on their behalf. And I've thought about whether we should try to introduce that where, you know, there's a handful of people who we have reading for us. Like, I think listeners would love that. We could pay them a nominal fee and, you know, they get access to early copies of books to read, and, like, they're making recommendations or writing up coverage of, like, hey, here's what I think is interesting about this book. Here's any red flags about this book, whatever. So I have thought about that. I think managing that process becomes tricky, so it adds another level that doesn't exist now. We would also have to, like, develop trust with those people and their taste, you know, because I don't want to put my name on something that somebody else says would be a good pick. And I disagree with that. So I think, you know, I would still want to read whatever we picked in advance before making it our pick.

[Olivia]

Yeah, this is actually a really interesting conversation to have because I. I'm now thinking, like, I approach book club like, this is a book that we're all reading together and we're going to talk about it. Not necessarily. Like, this is a book I endorse as good, which is, again, that, like, social book club with your friends versus the celebrity book club. And so do you see us sitting in one of those groups for the book club episodes? Like, do you feel more one way or the other, or do you feel like we should be more. More one way or the other?

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I've always aspired for us to be a celebrity book club. I think the difference is, is that most celebrity book clubs never have a conversation around the book. So, you know, with, like, Read with Jenna, for instance, they usually have the author on the Today show to talk to the author about making the book, et cetera. But there's no book club conversation where they're deeply talking about the themes of the book, et cetera, which is a key difference because I think some books make good book club conversation books and some books don't. But I do like the idea of us being a tastemaker and our readers trusting us to say this is the book you should be reading this month. So I feel like I would like to do a better job with that, but I don't quite know how given the constraints of my own time. And also, you know, in some ways the podcast has changed reading for me. And reading is one of the key things that I do for self care and to unwind. And so putting so much pressure on needing to read a stack of books that I don't necessarily want to read or I'm not in the mood for to screen makes it so different because I'm not setting aside time in my workday to do that. Like, it's all extracurricular.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Also like, when you think about it's virtually impossible for both of us to read a book before we choose it for book club and agree that we love it because I mean, we have slightly different reading tastes but. But also like the logistics of that time wise would be so difficult and.

[Becca Freeman]

That'S a challenge is like the podcast is five to six hours a week of work plus the book club. So, you know, reading a book I would say takes eight to 10 hours. Doing the outline for a book club is more intensive. So let's say one to two hours of thought and work. And like reading. I like to read other interviews that the author has done. I like to like read other reviews of the book to see what other people are talking about. I like to look at the Goodreads. Let's average it out. Let's say that it's like eight hours a week of work, including the book club stuff averaged over the month. That's like one day a week of a workday. And I think that based on, you know, like, this isn't paying either of our bills necessarily. Like it's more like a facet of both of our incomes. But it's not paying my rent. So it's hard to say like, okay, if we needed to create this screening system, it would almost need to be like a full time job.

[Olivia]

Right. Not to mention, I mean I probably read, I would say six to seven books a month, start to finish and like that would be Basically it. If we were both reading, you know, books we were interested in for book club, but then ones that the other person is interested in, like there would be no other rating for pleasure involved. So it's tough. Yeah. But I mean, no matter what the book is like, even if it's a little bit more challenging to talk about, I love book club episodes. Like, I think they bring up such interesting topics and I just think it's such a good conversation starter in general, the ways books always are, no matter what they are.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to get better, though, about pre screening my picks. You know, the other thing I'd like to do is I do feel like we're in a weird place because we've realized that the more popular a book is, the more buzzy a book is, the more people participate in a book club. And our book club episodes actually get our lowest downloads. I don't know that I should admit that, but I'll tell you.

[Olivia]

And we put the most work into them. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, by far. And our three things episodes get the most downloads. And so, you know, we always get more people to tune in if it's a popular book because maybe they are reading it anyway. Maybe they're reading it for their in person book club. Maybe they've, you know, if it's a month old, maybe they've read it already. So I think there's like a delicate balance and we've been almost incentivized just by downloads to pick books that are more mainstream. And I'd like to do a better job of like finding hidden gems that maybe people wouldn't otherwise be reading. Like, maybe just like for my picks, like twice a year. So two out of six. But I'd like to get better about doing that.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Like, I very rarely, except for maybe the Quiet Tenet, have I just chosen a book. Cause I read it and I was like obsessed with it and I wonder how it would feel just to do that more often. I mean, it's always books that I'm like, curious about or that I've started and that are good, but rarely is it one that I just happen to read because I picked it out and I really liked it. And then I was like, no, I need to talk about this with someone. So maybe I'd be interested in how to incorporate that more often in pics too. But lots to explore.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. How are we feeling about guests? This has been so sticky this year. This has been so sticky always.

[Olivia]

Okay, so here, here is my honest Thing about guests, I am so neutral that it's hard for me to fight one way or the other. Whenever we do have someone on, I love the conversation. I love meeting them. Like, sitting there. Seeing Emily Henry on Zoom, I was like, what is my life? But I'm not, like, deeply passionate about making that a hallmark of the podcast either. So I'm conflicted. And I also often get caught up in what I want to talk to someone about versus what the listeners want. So I'm really conscious that not every listener is a writer, for example. So I want to, like, pick someone's brain about, like, the intricacies of how they work. I don't really know if that's of interest to every listener or how to find what is. How do you feel about guests?

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know. I think guests are really interesting. I've been doing this for six and a half years, so having a guest gives us something different to talk about outside of your or my interests or what's going on in our lives. Especially since becoming an author, I do feel an aspect of, like, literary citizenship with, like, having some amount of authors on and giving them a platform to promote books. Again, we found that with download numbers, the more popular a guest is, the more widely known, the better the downloads are. But I think guests is one of the things that drives me most insane about the podcast of I cannot crack the formula. It feels like there is a way to do it and I cannot figure it out. I feel like once a year I put up an Instagram poll and I'm like, do you like guests? And the answer is yes. But then the more nuanced layer below that is, most people want guests, but they don't want the same guests. Some people want us to have the most niche, unheard of author who wrote a book that sold five copies. Some people want us to have the blockbuster authors. Some people hate when we talk to authors and want us to talk to influencers, other business owners. Some people want us to talk to regular people. I think everyone likes the idea of guests in theory, but there doesn't seem to be strong consensus around who those guests are. I felt really good this year about introducing the three things format to author interviews. I don't know how it's been received, but I think one thing that's really challenging is that especially if the author is popular, their book comes out and they go on 10 podcasts. And because most of them aren't like, media personalities, they're basically giving the same interview over and over. So the three Things format at least gives us the ability to talk about a random topic and to get to know them a little bit as people. But admittedly, I think some are better than others.

[Olivia]

It's a big ask for some people who are used to a very standard interview format. Other people, you can tell, they're like, oh, thank God I can talk about something other than. What was the inspiration behind this book? And the way I've said it 600 times.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, it was so interesting when Emily Henry came on because usually when we do these interviews, the goal is to get authors talking about something other than their book. And we prime people in advance. We're like, you know, it's almost like a backdoor sell where it's like, we wanna sell you as a person to our audience and like, have them be obsessed with you. And then like, let's talk about one thing related to your book, but not have the whole episode be about your book. And so usually it's like the author trying to pivot everything to their book. And with Emily Henry, she like, had no need to bring up her book, probably because she's, you know, such a household name, whatever. And afterwards I was like, oh, gosh, like, there was no book talk in that.

[Olivia]

Yeah. We were both like, oh, like, should we have pushed more for that?

[Becca Freeman]

But she was our failures interviewers not. Certainly no reflection on her. Like, she was so fun and dynamic.

[Olivia]

And I enjoyed that.

[Becca Freeman]

Me too.

[Olivia]

A lot. And I thought, you know, if you're a major Emily Henry fan, you're probably gonna listen to any interview she does, but maybe this is the one that's different, you know, and that gives you a little bit of a peek into who she is as a very private person.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

And she was so open and like, generous with all the things she was talking about. And of course I wanted to be like, I wanted to talk about writing, but she was, she was leading it.

[Becca Freeman]

It's so controlled because, you know, what people want to know about are when's your adaptation coming out, how are these adaptations going, et cetera. And it's like she can't talk about that. You know, like, there's time released tidbits of news. But like, she. I don't think she could largely have an open conversation about that. Forward looking.

[Olivia]

Yeah, it's very true.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. I don't know what to do with guests. We have a couple like mini guest episodes. Oh, we're gonna do a gift guide episode and we'll have a guest on for that. But we don't have a lot of guests for the rest of the year. I don't know what to do with guests. It is a conundrum for me.

[Olivia]

I understand that it's complicated.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

I wish I felt more strongly so I could be like, we're doing them. Not that I would ever talk that way about, like, literally anything, but now.

[Becca Freeman]

That you're my landlord, it would at.

[Olivia]

Least make it easier. I am your landlord now.

[Becca Freeman]

Really Asserting yourself now.

[Olivia]

I need to be more strong.

[Becca Freeman]

I am the captain. Now, let's take a quick ad break.

[Olivia]

This episode is sponsored by Farmacy. When I'm not feeling my best, one of the first habits that falls by the wayside is my skincare routine. And this is really unfortunate because it only makes me feel that much worse. But the skin on your face is a lot like the rest of your body. When it's hydrated and taken care of with great ingredients, it feels that much better. And that's why I have been absolutely loving Pharmacy's Honey Halo moisturizer.

[Becca Freeman]

I've been loving it, too, and I love that it is formulated with natural ingredients. I feel like it keeps my skin moisturized through the day. I don't wear a full face of makeup very often, but the other day when I was getting ready for this screening event, I put on the Honey Halo moisturizer before I did my makeup, and I just feel like my makeup application, like, my foundation went on so, so much smoother. I could really tell a difference in how it looked. And I don't know that I've noticed that with other products before, so I really loved that. And then this is so silly. I feel like if the brand is listening, they're going to be like, I'm sorry, this is what you want to highlight. So it's a tub product, like a screw cap tub, which I usually don't like, but it comes with its own little, like, shovel for it, which a lot of products do. But the genius part is that the scoop is metal and the top is magnetized. And I'm sorry, I feel like this is changing the game because I can keep them together and I do not have to keep track of my little tiny scoop that I inevitably lose within, I don't know, three to five uses. But I really appreciate that.

[Olivia]

I also really like this. It's very satisfying, and it makes sure that you can get all of the product out, which is a very good additional tool. But. But the other thing I love about the moisturizer, it's like, it feels initially like this really thick, luxurious, feeling, expensive fall Winter face cream. But as soon as you put it on, it absorbs basically instantly and it feels a lot more like a serum. But you're getting that, like, intense hydration of that really thick winter moisturizer. And like Becca said, pharmacy uses high quality natural ingredients. And sometimes I feel like natural can feel a little bit, like, less effective, like the equivalent of just, I don't know, putting something from your pantry on your face. But that's not the case here at all. It is just a really, really great moisturizer. I am actually already halfway through the jar, which is very fast for me. I love it.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Drench your skin in honey hydration. Visit pharmacybeauty.com and use code BADONPAPER for 20% off your order. That's 20% off your order at pharmacy F A R M a c y beauty.com with code badonpaper.

[Olivia]

Well, how do you think the podcast has informed your career as an author? We touched on it a little bit. I have a lot of thoughts about this beyond what we've talked about, and I want to know if you have any additional things you want to share in this topic.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, then you tell me yours if you want me to tell you if I have additional things.

[Olivia]

No, I mean, additional to what you've already shared about how it changed your career.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, it changed.

[Olivia]

Can you imagine if I was like, I want to talk. But also, if you have anything else to say beyond my own opinions, feel free to chime in in this podcast that you started.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, I. I didn't mind it, but I was like, you have to tell me what your thoughts are first so I can tell you if I agree or disagree with them.

[Olivia]

No, I meant in addition to how it changed your life that you talked about earlier.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, look, I cannot discount the fact that I got my agent because she knew about me from the podcast and social media. I think a friend of hers listened to the podcast and told her that I was writing a book. I'm positive that it played some role in my book deal. I don't think it's like, you cannot sell a book unless you have a social platform. You cannot sell a book unless you have a podcast. But I do think it helps. And I think that having this active community around me and my work and you and your work, but I'm just speaking for myself right now. I think that it is so different than what a lot of other authors who, you know, have social media. But, like, I feel like the connection is just really different. Like, I feel like podcast is so intimate as a medium. I feel like people are with us in a way. You know, like, they've heard us talk about our books. They're ready. They want to support us. Like, I've been shocked how many people have come over to my sub stack. Like, I feel like we have a army. That is probably the wrong analogy that I already regret.

[Olivia]

But there's no listeners. Like, bad on paper listeners. That's the truth.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. And I hear other authors talk about that. Their publisher saying, you need to start a newsletter. You need to start a pod. I don't think anyone's telling them to start a podcast anymore, but it's like, you need to have a platform, and that's so much easier said than done. I think it's a really challenging thing, and it's not something you can spin up in the six months before your book comes out. And it's like, we've been doing this for seven years, and I've always said I kind of want to ride this until the wheels fall off. Because even if it's not growing, like, just the depth of that relationship and how I feel like it benefits me and I enjoy it, but, like, how I feel like it benefits me in my author career of, like, these being the people who are supporting me first and foremost, where it's like, I think there's a marketing theory of, like, having a thousand true fans or something. And, like, that's what you need to. Then they'll tell people and, like, to start word of mouth, etc. And it's like, yeah, that's our thousand true fans are like. I mean, gratefully, more than a thousand. But that's our podcast community.

[Olivia]

Yeah, they're the best podcast people.

[Becca Freeman]

But I see what you've put in the outline. It seems like you have maybe a different take on this.

[Olivia]

Well, it's the same and it's different. I mean, speaking personally, 100% certain I would not have any level of success as an author, or at least not this level of success. Success I've had, which it's not like I'm like, you know, Colleen Hoover out here, but, like, I'm able to do it for a career, 100% positive that would not be possible without this platform. And, like, my gratitude for that is endless. Truly, like, it is, honestly, like, moving to me when people show up to my event and they're like, well, I read it on Kindle, but, you know, I bought another book here. Like, to me, that is wild. It's got chills. It's unbelievable how and when people say they drive to these events like our. It's crazy to me, having said that. And I think this goes back to, like, my low that I talked about at the top of the episode. But it is hard sometimes because I get in my head and I have moments of imposter syndrome. And I think, well, do I only have this not because I'm a good writer, but because I have some sort of a following? And it's this moment of imposter syndrome. Like, I'm a joke? This isn't real. I just got lucky. And I think that's true of every writer, maybe a little bit anyway. But I don't know. Do you ever feel that way where you're like, oh, maybe I just, like, got really lucky? Not saying you should.

[Becca Freeman]

No. I do feel that in other aspects. Like, I do feel that in, like, how I've Grown my newsletter. I do feel that in, like, the success of this podcast feels somewhat random to me or that I owe it to Grace, who had a much bigger following. But I feel confident that I have worked harder on my books than anything else I've ever done. And maybe it is not for everyone, but I can tell you that I have put in the work as you should.

[Olivia]

And I also feel that way.

[Becca Freeman]

Like, it is not like, I'm Millie Bobby Brown, who had a ghostwriter write her World War II mystery book and made the New York Times bestseller list.

[Olivia]

Like, oh, I didn't know that.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Oh, wow.

[Becca Freeman]

The blood on the page is my own.

[Olivia]

No. And I feel the same way. Like, I can recognize how hard it is, but I can also see that there are a lot of other writers who work their asses off and don't get to the level I do. So sometimes I feel like it's hard for me to see. And maybe this is the influencer background as well. Like, I just wonder if, like, am I good enough being a question of my life? Am I worth anything? So, you know, things to talk about in therapy.

[Becca Freeman]

I had a lot of guilt about that, about getting my agent and not having gone through, like, the normal process or channels. And I had a lot of conversations with friends about that last year who have some adjacency to the publishing industry. One thing that they told me was like, hey, maybe you didn't work as hard at that piece, but you worked hard in a different way doing a weekly podcast for.

[Olivia]

Right.

[Becca Freeman]

Five years before you reaped any benefit from it. And so, you know, like, the work maybe isn't the same as somebody who sent 300 queries. But, like, it's different work.

[Olivia]

Yeah, it's a good point. I haven't thought about it that way, but that does put things in a new light. That's helpful.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm glad. I'm glad. Well, I feel like we're dancing around this topic, but we haven't quite talked about it. Like, not all unicorns and rainbows. Like, what frustrations do you have with the podcast? You're like, your whole personality.

[Olivia]

No, I mean, I think my biggest pain point that comes up is just a product of sharing a lot of my life on the Internet and not knowing what to share where and being worried that I'm repeating myself, which I do anyway, even though I really try to avoid, like, talking about the same thing over and over. Although I'm sure I'm always going to be talking about the subject of, like, how do I learn to feel good about myself as a human being in the world? Which I feel like is the center of everything I write or say. But that's really it, because it is a challenge. Like, highs and lows. I'm like, well, I don't, I don't want to bombard people with the same story that they've seen three other places and. But I feel like that's also boring.

[Becca Freeman]

Somewhat narcissistic about that, to be like, oh, you've watched all my Instagram stories and you, you've, like, studied. You have a PhD in this. And so like, I am not repeating it. So it's like, I hear you. And I flip flop back and forth on that of being like, get over yourself. Like, nobody's paying that close attention.

[Olivia]

Yes. I do not believe that everyone is watching my stories nonstop. Don't worry.

[Becca Freeman]

But I mean that to myself, not to you, to be clear.

[Olivia]

Thanks. Well, now I'm like, oh, that's a good point. But yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, you want to be interesting. Like, that's, that's really the point, I guess. What about you?

[Becca Freeman]

Well, I mean, it's frustrating. We have been plateaued growth wise since 2020, and I think within that there's probably some circulation of some people leaving, some new people coming. But, like, we're only just refilling the bucket at this point. Like, we're not growing, which has been frustrating because I think, you know, the narrative is you're supposed to grow. And I would like to grow because I think if we were growing, we could also justify putting more of our time, of our, like, if I think of my career like a portfolio. Like, if this is making more money, I could put in 10 hours, I could put in 15 hours a week to it, as opposed to, you know, needing to keep that capped because I need to make income through other places too. So the growth is definitely frustrating. And I think it's hard because. Well, first, I think, like, growing a podcast right now is more challenging than it's been at any other time. Like, there's not a lot of new podcast listeners who are looking for new podcasts. Like, people have their lineup and it's like, I'm on a one in, one out policy. Like, I'm not looking for anything new. And then, you know, it's so saturated with, like, celebrity shows. And then I think it's really hard that, you know, we have 300 episodes. And I think it's really hard for some people to just be like, I'm just gonna jump in now. And oh, my gosh, like a few times a year I get a message from somebody who's like, I went back and listened to every episode and I am floored whenever that happens. Like, to the completists, I salute you and I am so humbled. But, like, I think, I think it is a roadblock for some people of, like, I don't want to just start now, even though you can start anywhere and within a few episodes, I feel like you kind of get the gist of us. Even though there's no formal intro of, like, here's what their deal is. I don't know. So the growth thing is frustrating to me, to be honest. I also feel like I can sometimes fall into a little bit of a pessimism trap of like, oh, we've already done that. Oh, we've already covered that. Or like, oh, I know people won't like that. So sometimes I feel like I could be the no person, which I really hate, but is kind of just a product of having done this for six and a half years, and I want to work on that. And then the other thing is, you know what I was talking about with guests, I think there's, like, not pleasing everyone, which is impossible. And it's so hard with the podcast. And sometimes it can be so loud. Like, there was a day this weekend where in the same day somebody. And all of these comments are truly, like, completely benign, but it's just like the quantity of them in chorus is like, oh, God, like, I'm not doing anything right. Like, somebody was like, I wish you picked this other book for book club. And somebody was like, I think that you should start a pop culture podcast. And somebody else was like, I want to be a guest on your podcast. And that's on top of the, I don't know, like, dozen or two dozen guest pitches we get per week from PR people through our inbox. And then, like, I can't even remember what the other ones were, but it was just like, there were like 10 things and like, just everyone had an opinion, and I was like, I don't know. And it's hard. I feel like it's been hard this year, especially because I'm feeling so insecure professionally in other aspects where I'm having a really hard time writing this book. And I do feel in some ways incompetent as I struggle through that. And so having people not even question, but just have ideas can sometimes feel like, oh, my God, I can't do anything right.

[Olivia]

Yeah, it's hard. I mean, it really goes back to that balance of wanting to grow, wanting to evolve, wanting to be creative. At the same time, you can't please everyone. And that's. And finding whatever balance there is between those two things is, like, I think, really, really difficult. And to, like, at the same time as all of that, appreciate and put energy into the community that we have and we love so much. Like, that's really what matters to me at the same time, like, you know, all are welcome. The more the merrier.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, it's such a good point. And I've. I've thought about this with Substack a lot too, where it's like, why does everything always need to grow? Like, why can't you just be happy with it being what it is and.

[Olivia]

Be grateful Again, back to my low. That's all I wonder about myself. Like, why do I need constant statistics and growth and more subscribers, more money, more comments, more listeners, whatever. Like, why? I don't know. Why is that the key? And of course, we would love, as you said, to have it be a bigger part of our careers, like, money wise, and that would change how much time we can spend. But it's hard. We're trying our best.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. On the positive side, like, what dreams for growth do you have for the podcast?

[Olivia]

I think for me, I just want to find more ways to foster that community and the connection and to experience it in real life if possible. Because the most comforting part of this podcast to me in a lot of ways is this idea that there's all of us who love the same things. And I've talked about this before, but it's so special to, like, feel seen and understood and safe and, I don't know, like, people get you. Like, that's such a cool feeling. And I just want to find more ways to experience that in the world. And, yeah, I think that's it. What about you?

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I feel like this is a pipe dream. Who knows? It feels weird to be six and a half years in where it's like, how realistic is it for how big the podcast gets from here? And, like, you know, if one of us were to have, like, a huge breakout book, I think that could really change the game. Or, like, I don't know, Like, I don't know if us doing, like, video recordings and getting more audience through TikTok would really work. But, like, I don't know how much we're going to grow. But I do have this dream of, you know, having, you know, how on physical books, there's like, the printed on sticker for, like, Reese's Book Club or Good Morning America or Read with Jenna. Like, I wish our book club had that level of cachet, brand cachet and trust, you know? So, like, that would be such a dream that people were, you know, paying attention to our book club picks the same way that they were these big brands. Oh, my other dream, just to put my nosy britches self into, you know, other people's stuff. I want more IRL book clubs. So I am in. In the Geneva group. I'm in, like, all of the rooms of all the different localities because I've created most of them and I. I don't think I can leave them.

[Olivia]

I'm in a weird smattering of them. I don't know.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm in, like, why Over a hundred of them. Like, I'm just in, like, every one of them. And so I see all the God. I am like God. So I see all the little conversations happening, and I see people trying to start a book club. And I think it's. I mean, first of all, I think it's overwhelming to take on the planning of it, but I think people also get discouraged because playing schedule shuffle. But I almost wrote a newsletter about this the other day of, like, here's how you should do it. Okay, can I just go on my side tangent really quickly here?

[Olivia]

This is why we're here.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay? So I think what you need to do, you want to be the starter of the book club. You got to commit to planning one meeting. You don't need to do it forever, but you need to do one meeting. So I'd say send out, put a doodle Poll in the local Geneva chat with, I don't know, pick, like, five dates that work for you. Try to have a couple different options of weekends, weekdays, afternoons, evenings, on the weekends, whatever. And if you can get. I'm going to say five people to say the same date. Pick the date. Screw everyone else. Sorry. Screw everyone else. But then go have such a good time and post about it in the group that they're jealous and they want to come next time and they're going to, like, clear their schedules.

[Olivia]

Oh, yeah, See, you're good at this.

[Becca Freeman]

And I think that, like, you're never going to find a date that works for everyone. So if you have five people, I think at least one person's gonna drop out day of right before somebody's gonna be sick, somebody's gonna have a childcare emergency, whatever. But then you still have four people. So I think it's enough to get it started.

[Olivia]

And I think you've really been thinking about this.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I think once the ball gets rolling, naturally more people will come. Cause it's a very inclusive, open environment. And then as far as the location goes, you don't need to do it at your house. Like, that's too much work. Unless you love entertaining. Like, find a brewery or a coffee shop. Like a big coffee shop where people cowork. And then on an off hour, do a meeting there. Or like most breweries, you can just get a picnic table or something. And even if you don't like beer, like, they have NA options or a lot of them have wine too. But, like, I think that's a good, big place to meet. Just make sure it's not on a night when they have, like, trivia or another activity. But I would love to see that. I feel like Beach Reads and Bubbly has such a. Has such a huge grassroots community of book clubs. And I. I hear people saying that they want to make IRL friends and they want to have book clubs. And I'm like, oh, we just need to, like, get over the. Get over the hump. And if anyone who does administrate any of these local book clubs that do exist, because there are probably like, I don't know, 10 to 20 of them, if you have tips on how to get one off the ground or to, like, organize, like, please come into the main Geneva group and drop some knowledge on us.

[Olivia]

Yes. I mean, these are like our little hubs of the army, you know?

[Becca Freeman]

Truly, I regret that analogy so much. It sounds like we're gonna go fight another podcast audience.

[Olivia]

I'm so Ill equipped for this metaphor because I was, like, trying to think of, like, army terminology and I was like, Saving Private Ryan. I'm like, I have nothing. I have nothing. But there's strength in numbers. I don't know. I just keep thinking of weird army analogies. But no, really, there are so many of us, and the more people can, like, hang out in person, the better, so. I agree, and those were all excellent tips.

[Becca Freeman]

I feel like we cannot have this episode without having an update on who are our current dream guests. Would you like to manifest?

[Olivia]

I mean, I have to tell you that I'm stealing one of yours, which is that you suggested in the Allied Ryan Gosling for the Project Hail Mary release, which is such a. Such a dream scenario outside of my realm of possibility that it did not even enter my head. But I need to think bigger. I need to dream bigger. And I'm dreaming this Ryan Gosling dream with you.

[Becca Freeman]

I think that the Glen Powell of it all has taught me that we need to be on the heartthrob circuit for book to film adaptations. Whenever there's a book to film adaptation with a heartthrob, like, we need to get in there.

[Olivia]

If I am not invited, by the way, to the Project Hail Mary screening, like, that's the screening that I belong at personally. And you, all of us.

[Becca Freeman]

It's not coming out until 2026, so we have time to make our case.

[Olivia]

I. It's a long wait.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know. Andy Weir can come on with him. I don't care. Like, he wants to talk about anything he wants to talk about.

[Olivia]

We can have Rocky. Just the weird musical notes.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Like, literally, he can come on and, like, promote anything. Like his weird celebrity brand that he's just started of, like turtleneck sweaters. That doesn't exist.

[Olivia]

But I'm making up like, 100%. I will wear a turtle.

[Becca Freeman]

It's your airtime, Ryan.

[Olivia]

Whatever you want. Well, I'm going to go with that. I had some other ones, but we'll just. I mean, no, I tell.

[Becca Freeman]

Say your list. I don't care.

[Olivia]

We're like. I listed three people. They're very random. Barbara Kingsolver. You also brought her up. So again, just stealing your dreams or sharing them. Dolly Alderton, I think would be great.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, I would love to have a conversation with her. We've never tried for her.

[Olivia]

It's funny. Sometimes I write these and I'm like, absolutely no way. And sometimes I think, actually that's doable. So maybe Dolly Alderton, Ashley Audrain I've never gotten to talk to her and I just a huge fan, as everyone knows.

[Becca Freeman]

That feels eminently doable. Maybe that's your birthday present next year.

[Olivia]

Oh, God. It's like a cameo.

[Becca Freeman]

No, I like, I brought Ashley Audrain to be our guest and you get to talk only about craft, no matter what anyone else wants.

[Olivia]

Oh, that would be great. Oh, that would be lovely. Okay, well, who are yours?

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I need to remain strong on. My number one guest of all time would be Oprah. I mean, Oprah is the OG of book clubs. I think Oprah would be a great guest. Oh, okay.

[Olivia]

No, just kidding. Yeah, I agree. Oprah would be great.

[Becca Freeman]

I think Tessa Bailey would be so fun to have a conversation with. She just strikes me as really fun from her social media and the press that she's done. We've put the ask out to her team before, but I mean, she's putting out so many books a year. They were like, she's heads down in drafting mode. And I was like, I get that. So it's never worked out. But I do think it would be really fun to have her on. And I would love to talk about, like, how she writes sex scenes.

[Olivia]

Oh, yeah, that would be very interesting.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know who this is, but I would love to talk to an author who's been directly involved in adapting their own work. Like, almost like a how a book gets made into a movie.

[Olivia]

Gillian Flynn would be a good one because she wrote the screenplay for Gone Girl.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

[Olivia]

I believe so.

[Becca Freeman]

Again, that feels like a reach, but I agree. That would be great.

[Olivia]

We'll see.

[Becca Freeman]

I think my version of Ashley Audrain is Katherine center, who also just has very wise energy, like pep talky energy. So I would love to talk to her and I'm going to try that for when her next book comes out. We've never tried before.

[Olivia]

Do it.

[Becca Freeman]

I think it would be really fun to talk to Sarah J. Maas or Rebecca Yarros. Like somebody in this fantasy world. And I just want to know what their brain is like because that is so different than how I think to come up with a whole world and magic system, et cetera.

[Olivia]

I can't even imagine.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, okay. Those are mine.

[Olivia]

All great picks. I think that there's another question that we have to address that we're gonna get, which is, are live shows ever coming back?

[Becca Freeman]

Ugh, I don't know. Honestly, like, probably not. I would like to do like one show a year. So here's the thing. I love live shows.

[Olivia]

One night only.

[Becca Freeman]

One night only. Here's the thing. I love doing live shows. I think it was so much fun to do when we did it in 2019. I handled all of like the admin. I was like our agent basically, our touring agent basically. And then Grace got us brand deals with all of the hotels to get comped hotels. And I don't have the bandwidth to do all that admin. Like at the time I was consulting, I wasn't super loving it. I was so excited about the podcast and I was like happy to do that. Like, I just can't have any more distractions right now to like keep me from writing my book. I'm already my own worst enemy. So the reality is like, I can't do that. And my understanding from having talked to a few in the past is that like we can sell out depending on the city. Like a 300 person venue usually is like kind of our sweet spot in New York. I think we've done four. We can maybe do four in Chicago. Like you need to be selling out like a thousand seat venues, which we can't do. And so like there isn't really an option to get professional help for this. And it's not that lucrative, you know, like when you take into account the travel of like planes, hotels, meals there. Like I think Grace and I were probably taking like on some shows we were taking a couple hundred dollars each. And the most lucrative ones, we were maybe taking like two grand each or something. Especially like in New York when we didn't have to travel for it. So it's not like, it's like, you know, two grand is a lot of money for an hour and a half of work, but it's all the work that goes into it beforehand. So I just, I don't know how to solve that. I don't have the capacity for it.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I mean, I don't think they're off the table altogether. It's just not in the cards right now.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Like as things currently stand, we're in.

[Becca Freeman]

Conversation with a brand who wanted us to do like live hosted events. And like that would have been great because that would have taken all the admin off and that fell apart through no one's fault. But like it just didn't work out. Yeah, but I could, I could see myself like committing to like one a year of like, I'll do the legwork for one and that wouldn't be like a huge distraction.

[Olivia]

Yeah, you never know.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, it would be really cool if at some point in the future, we could get our publishers to send us on, like, a joint book tour.

[Olivia]

That would be great. I would love that.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Well, looking forward, is there anything in particular that you are hoping to explore or try in the next year with the podcast or years to come?

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I've said this before and I haven't really gotten around to it, but I do think it's interesting to try a few episodes video recorded and, you know, whether releasing the video or using that to make clips for TikTok and reels, like, I do want to experiment with that. I think, you know, part of it would be maybe we have a really big guest that we want to do that for.

[Olivia]

Oprah.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, obviously, if Oprah comes on, that's the only thing I can think of. What do you want to explore with a podcast?

[Olivia]

I mean, I think one episode, I guess I should say that I personally just, like, really enjoyed recording was that social Media Habits episode we did with Leslie Stevens. And I do really like the idea, and I know you and Grace have done this a lot in the past as well, but I love the idea of taking one topic that's a little bit broad and talking to someone who has a unique perspective on it. So whether that be, like, just the general concept of like, failure or what success means or aging or body image, and just finding someone who has a really cool take on it or who writes about it a lot or talks about it a lot and having that conversation. So less of like a traditional interview, maybe, and more of like a just a talk. But that might just be me wanting to talk to people about specific subjects that interest me. No, I think that's just a selfish endeavor.

[Becca Freeman]

I think that's interesting. I think it's, you know, less talking about you, the person, and more talking to somebody as a subject matter expert, definitely.

[Olivia]

But I mean, in general, I think I really like what we do, and sometimes I think I should be more growth focused. But as it is now, I really enjoy it and I get a lot out of it. So I hope other people do too. And I hope you do.

[Becca Freeman]

Of course I do. It's changed my life.

[Olivia]

Same. Well, let's get into some n matter. Let's tell me what you are obsessed with.

[Becca Freeman]

Olivia, I don't love this for myself, but the honest answer is that I have gotten so deep in Diddy conspiracy TikTok.

[Olivia]

Okay, tell me, what is the conspiracy? I know the general legal stuff, but.

[Becca Freeman]

So, okay, this happened because I generally have not had TikTok downloaded on my phone for the past three months. And I downloaded it on Monday because I needed to go to that event. And I was like, how does one pose on a red carpet? And so I was like, TikTok will know. So I looked up some videos and I left it on my phone. And that night, it was Monday night, and around like 9:00, I was like, I think I'm gonna get into bed. And I started watching TikTok and I just got sucked in to this. And so a lot of the stuff is okay. So there's like a few different schools of it. So first of all, there's a lot of tell alls or interviews of people who are victims, who are saying, like, what their experience is or people who've been to parties and saw shady shit happen. So there's some of that. There's a lot of conspiracies about who else is going to get caught up in this trial. So, like, what other celebrities? Like, who knew who was at these parties?

[Olivia]

Oh, like Ashton Kutcher, right? That's one of the ones I keep.

[Becca Freeman]

Allegedly. Yeah, allegedly, allegedly. But so there's like a lot of that stuff. But then there's also, like, such deep conspiracies of, like, how deep does it go? And so this is adjacent to Beyonce conspiracy TikTok, where, like, Beyonce is the Illuminati and is killing everyone who gets in the way of her stardom and that's why everyone is recognizing her when they win a major award. And, like, that's why Kanye interrupted Taylor swift at the VMAs because he was saving her from Beyonce. Like, people wild, these theories. I don't know.

[Olivia]

I need to think less about myself and my own, like, insecurities and think more about the Illuminati. I feel like I would be distracted. I could just put that energy into the conspiracy theories and off I go.

[Becca Freeman]

May I suggest Diddy conspiracy TikTok? I have also.

[Olivia]

Thank you so much. I'll start there.

[Becca Freeman]

I have wrecked my. For your page. I deleted the app this afternoon. I was like, you need to get out of this. It's also not moving fast enough. There's any new information. It's just like, more theories compounding on themselves.

[Olivia]

But wait for the Netflix docu series. It'll be all there.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, so the rumor is that 50 Cent has been, like, building the case and, like, collecting evidence and doing interviews for years behind the scenes because he has a beef with Diddy and knew this was happening. Has tried to tell people and he's like, making a documentary about this. And guess what the name of it is rumored to be. Do it.

[Olivia]

He or didn't he? Oh, oh, did he do it? Okay, that's better. I knew it was like, it's gotta be something.

[Becca Freeman]

Can't wait. Also, I mean, I don't think this trial from. Oh, there's also a whole other side of it that's lawyers weighing in on things.

[Olivia]

God.

[Becca Freeman]

And so from what the lawyers say, like, I don't think this is going to be in court until, you know, 20, 26 or beyond, but I am going to be glued to this trial whenever it happens. And also, let me say, like, it is so, so fucked up, like, what he is being accused of. And like, it seems like I'm not. This is not an umbrella thing. I'm not saying the Beyonce stuff is true, but, like, the things that he's accused of are so awful. And like, the fact that this went on for so long and it seems like it was such an open secret is so disgusting.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Very Weinstein esque. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Horrible. But if anyone else, Obsession is a honeycrisp candle. I didn't know how to transition to that.

[Becca Freeman]

No, I think that was. I think that was the right. I think that was the right transition. Tell me about it.

[Olivia]

It's great. I have it here for you. Jar is the. Thank. Yeah. Thank you. It's like I made it. I don't know why I'm saying thank you. It's this candle I got at TJ Maxx. It's called sand and Fog Inspired on the California coast. I don't know why it wouldn't be inspired by. But anyway, the scent is Honeycrisp Harvest. It really has strong apple scent. Let's see if the notes are on the bottom. It doesn't, but it's really good. It has a floral sort of, like, wrap to it. It's just. It burns. Well, I'm really enjoying it. It's powering me through my work days, my writing. I really like it.

[Becca Freeman]

I love an apple crop harvest. So I am excited to stick my nose in this when I come visit in a couple weeks to see if I want to buy this too.

[Olivia]

Well, it's in your room. It's in the guest room. So maybe I'll just leave it there for you.

[Becca Freeman]

Thank you. I can make this quick because I didn't read anything this week. What about you?

[Olivia]

I read Big Fan by Alexandra Romanoff from 831 Stories.

[Becca Freeman]

Isn't it a delightful little book?

[Olivia]

It's very fun. And the book is so, like, pleasantly designed. Like the little 831 logo is raised. And I love the details. And also, I enjoyed so much getting to the end of the book and then playing the song. I don't know if you did that.

[Becca Freeman]

No, I did it before the song was online and I have seen other people talking about it and I always am doing something that I like. It's not an appropriate time to listen to the song. And I keep forgetting it's fun.

[Olivia]

It was a really fun read. Short, sweet, sexy, all those things. But, like, I just think what they're doing is so creative and so genius. And the experience of reading and getting to the end. I didn't expect to actually click on the QR code because I had already heard them talk about it, but I was like, I gotta go look. And I looked at all the fan fiction. It's just so smart. So I really enjoyed it.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, definitely check that out. But we also have our October book club pick, which is Bel Canto by Ann Patchett. I'm calling it my Backlist fall. I'm going back to a lot of books that I missed while there's fewer new releases because of the election. And so this is Ann Patchett's fourth novel from 2001, and the only thing I can think to compare it to is a Breakfast Club type story of like a locked room with a lot of disparate people. I don't know if that's how Anne would want it described, but it takes place at the birthday party of a powerful businessman in South America. And all of the party guests are held hostage by a band of terrorists. And so all of the party guests, who some of whom don't know each other, are all of a sudden under this very unique circumstances and forge these unexpected bonds. It's also reminding me of Anxious People by Fredrik Backman, where a bunch of people are held hostage at a real estate viewing. And I loved that book and I've heard nothing but glowing things about this. So I am so excited to check this out.

[Olivia]

If you want to talk to us about anything, the podcast, whatever, you can talk to us in our Geneva group or in our Facebook group. Both are under batonpaper Podcast. Also follow us on Instagram if you want. That's under batonpaper Podcast. I am oliviamenter on Instagram and Substack.

[Becca Freeman]

And I'm on Instagram ecamfreeman and I'm on Substack. Just.

[Olivia]

I hope you enjoyed the sausage.