B (3:09)

I mean, I sent a lot of emails last week with zero dolphins, and I can say that the experience was completely unmemorable. So dolphins make everything better.

A (3:18)

Yes. And the night before we left, I was like, why do we do this? Like, I have so much going on. Like, I just need to be home. I need to be in my office. But that first morning, being there at 8am and just being completely alone on that beach and picking up shells, it was just so perfect. Like, I was like, oh, I, I, I needed exactly this. It was lovely. Yeah. I'm so grateful that we got to go.

B (3:43)

Yeah. I know you've said a few times that your goal is to stay busy and stay distracted, so this sounds great. Are you able to say who the interview was with or is this a secret?

A (3:54)

Oh, sure. It's with Gigi, who's the owner of the bookstore there that I love so much. So it was really like one of the most special, cool moments of my life and so unexpected in so many ways. So I can't wait for people to listen to it. But I did not know if it would work out. Like, she had confirmed it, but then I was kind of convinced she would cancel. She's a very busy lady. But it was a really, really full circle moment for me in a lot of ways. And it was just, it was really special. So I'm trying to embrace the fact that I am, you know, a functioning adult with no children and I can do stuff like this if I want. I think I forget that I can. So I'm glad I went. I'm glad we got in the car and just went.

B (4:39)

I'm so glad. What about on the low end?

A (4:42)

Oh, the low is that I woke up the second day there and I had a sty, which so painful. And now it's like in the weird dry phase. I don't know if you've gotten a sty before, but I've gotten a sty.

B (4:56)

But I don't know that I'm familiar with the weird dry phase.

A (4:59)

I wasn't either. It's, it's just it went from really swollen and painful to now very dry and itchy. So not to get really just in the weeds here with the details, but it was just annoying. And yeah, can't recommend, but, but it's going away. So, you know, Survivable for sure. Good. Well, what's your low?

B (5:18)

My low is that last week I started to get really overwhelmed by the logistical to do's of moving. I feel like I've spent the past few months dealing with the emotional work of moving and, you know, saying goodbye to this apartment I love and getting excited to move somewhere new. And then all of a sudden last week I started to make a note in my phone with everything I have to do before I move and I was like, oh wow, there's a lot that I need to do and certainly, you know, I have more flexibility than I have ever had when I moved in the past, so it should be fine. But oh my gosh, I've gotten a bit overwhelmed in the past week.

A (6:05)

It is overwhelming. I mean, I think I would be worried if you weren't feeling overwhelmed. There's so much to do.

B (6:09)

I wasn't until last week, but I think that might have just been being naive.

A (6:16)

Well, hopefully this time next month the worst is behind you.

B (6:20)

Yes, absolutely. Well, let's take an ad break and then let's get in to some things.

A (6:31)

This episode is sponsored by Masterclass. My goal this year is to prioritize the things that make me feel good. And one of those things is definitely making space to learn about the things that interest me. Writing and cooking, movies. Masterclass offers lessons in all of the above and so, so many other topics. I mean anything you can think of. I promise you they have lessons on it. And I still think about the Joyce Carol Oates class on creative writing when I'm working on a story and I listen to all of those lessons through Masterclass.

B (7:03)

If you're looking to squeeze in more learning in your year, Masterclass is perfect. Especially if you have a busy schedule. You can turn your commute or workout into a classroom and with audio mode you can listen to the Masterclass lessons anyt anywhere. Masterclass fits right into your schedule with thousands of short, easy to digest lessons you can learn from on your own time. You can learn wherever you are, on your phone, laptop or even your tv. Masterclass goes with you and there's no risk. Every new membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee.

A (7:34)

Right now our listeners get an additional 15 off any annual membership@masterclass.com BOP that's 15 off@masterclass.com BOP masterclass.com BOP. Well, you teased one of your things in the last episode. So if you want to just start strong with with yours, you can, I mean, bring us on this journey.

B (8:02)

I've got it. So My first thing, unsurprisingly, is heated rivalry. Olivia. I have never felt this way about a show or even a piece of content before.

A (8:16)

Wow.

B (8:16)

I am so down the rabbit hole in this fandom. I've rewatched the show multiple times. I've started going on threads, a social media platform that I previously had no relationship with because that seems to be where a lot of the fandom is. I've watched all the interviews. I am consuming content around this show in such a rabid way. Like, I was thinking about, I was so into the summer. I turned pretty over the summer. And, you know, I would consume if something crossed my. My social feed. If there were theories or fan edits, I would consume them. I am a completist with this. I feel like I have seen everything. I am just on another level with this show. And I also understand that I am not alone in this.

A (9:09)

No, this is a phenomenon. Everywhere I go, I hear about it. I have yet to watch it, but I enjoy watching the passion that people have for it. Yeah.

B (9:19)

I've been thinking a lot about why the show works so well in general and for me specifically, and I think I've kind of circled a few things. I think, first of all, the chemistry between the two actors in the show is just absolutely incredible and so unlike a lot of chemistry in other movies, shows, et cetera. It's like, electric. Also, their acting performances are incredible, which I feel like is highlighted so much more once you watch interviews with them. So there's one guy in it who in the show is Russian. The actor is not Russian at all. He's from Texas. He learned to speak Russian or the lines. How to pronounce these lines in Russian in a week before filming started.

A (10:08)

Wow. I didn't know that. I was actually confused because now I keep seeing clips of them, like, at award shows and whatnot. And then I also knew there was a Russian person, so I'm like, where. Where is this Russian?

B (10:19)

He's. He's not Russian at all.

A (10:22)

Yeah, it's impressive.

B (10:24)

And their personalities are so counter to the character. So the one who plays Shane, who's a little bit quieter, more repressed in real life, the actor is such a chaos monster. And then he gives this very quiet, restrained, nuanced performance in the show. It's not as if they just found actors who are really similar to the characters. And then I think another thing is that it's just unapologetically a romance. I saw a thread that I laughed so hard at that said the hockey is fade to Black. But the romance is not. Like, this show is not trying to teach you anything about hockey. I don't know anything about the rules. I know about the costumes. I guess I think it kind of.

A (11:08)

I'm noticing it is sort of building an interest in hockey, though, like, the actual sport. I've noticed more people that I follow, like women around my age, like, going to hockey games and being interested in hockey. And I wonder if it's all connected.

B (11:22)

I mean, maybe my friend Jess, who's also really into the show, texted the other day and asked if we should go to a hockey game. And I said, absolutely not. That. That's not why I'm interested in this show.

A (11:32)

I saw something where they're calling it, like, the boy aquarium. Yes, the boy aquarium. I was trying to think of. I had the word boy and aquarium, but I couldn't figure out how they fit together. It turns out just boy aquarium, but which I kind of find funny. That's the phrase for watching hockey.

B (11:48)

So funny. And I think another thing about this show that's so special is that it's adapted from books and it is such a faithful adaptation. It's so respectful of the source material. It would be the dream scenario as an author to have your work adapted with this much care. And Jacob Tierney, who's the writer, showrunner, director for this, read the books originally as a fan, like, he wasn't looking at it as a piece of IP to acquire. And so much of the dialogue in the show comes from the books. But then, you know, in the show, you get so much more added nuance of, like, heated eye contact, and you get to see everything play out. Jennifer Weiner, in her newsletter, she said something to the effect of it was done not looking down on the romance shots genre. And that really something clicked there for me because I think so often books get snapped up as opportunities by production companies and then they attach people to it to write or direct who are not necessarily fans of the original property. Like I was talking to. I did this very long interview with Aaron Carlson about the show for her newsletter last week. And I said in there, like, I don't think Michael Showalter, who was the director for the idea of you, was a fan of that property beforehand, you know.

A (13:17)

Right.

B (13:17)

And I think there is a snobbery around certainly the book genre of romance, but then also around the romantic comedy genre in TV and film. And so often people are trying to make it more or a secret romance, like a backdoor kind of romance, as opposed to just owning it. And I Think this show is so unapologetically about the romance and the emotional arc between these two characters. And it's so powerful.

A (13:49)

It seems like it. It's just having a. I don't know, like an industry changing effect. I can't remember the last time a show seemed this buzzy. I. I know I cannot.

B (14:01)

I mean, the Summer I Turned Pretty, but it was in a different way for me. This feels more. There's also something that's just so fun about seeing unknowns break out in this major way and the trajectory that these two actors are on. And you know, I think the Summer I Turned Pretty was also unknowns, but this feels different. Like these actors have so much charisma, they're so fun to watch in interviews and it's while they were waiters eight months ago. That's absolutely nuts cool to see somebody's dreams come true in this way and to see them be so good at what they do.

A (14:40)

Yeah. Not to bring it back to Marty supreme, but one small issue that I had with it was that there is a sort of prominent side character and he is played by one of the guys on shark tank, Mr.

B (14:52)

Wonderful. I know who you mean.

A (14:54)

Mr. Wonderful and Fine, whatever. But I just kept thinking like, isn't there an actor who's been like working for years, trying to break out, whose life would be changed by this role and you give it to an already pre established gazillionaire or whatever he is. I don't know why that annoyed me so much, but it really did. And anyway, it just. To your point, like, it makes me so happy to see people who were waiters eight months ago now having the spotlight in such a deserved way.

B (15:21)

Yeah.

A (15:22)

I.

B (15:22)

Last night was the Golden Globes. It seemed like even at the event with other actors, we're so excited to meet them and we're so excited about the show. And it was just. I feel a weird pride for them, these two people that I don't know whatsoever.

A (15:37)

Yeah, me too. I haven't even watched and I'm excited for them.

B (15:40)

I'm really excited to see what their next roles are outside of this show and to see where they take their careers because I have to imagine they're getting absolutely inundated with offers right now.

A (15:53)

Totally. Yeah. I'm sure they're signing some absolutely huge deals and projects right now.

B (15:58)

And they're both very. Actors, actors. Like they're both very serious about the craft. So I could see them doing something weird or unexpected. I don't know.

A (16:08)

Yeah, movies for sure.

B (16:11)

This show Just has such a grip on me and it makes me so excited about being a romance reader. It makes me so excited about the future of adaptations that this was adapted so, so well. I don't know. This feels like a lightning in a bottle type moment. I don't know how replicable it is, but this just feels big for romance.

A (16:32)

Totally. Yeah. Even on the outside. I can tell. But speaking of romance adaptations, did you watch the people we meet on vacation?

B (16:41)

Well, Olivia, I sure did, and that's my second thing. So you tell me a thing and then we can get to people we meet on vacation.

A (16:49)

Okay. So going back to the dolphins, once again, I was thinking about dolphins.

B (16:55)

Do you think that in some way dolphins are tied into Little One? Not the text of the book. There are no dolphins. It takes place in inland Florida. It's not a dolphin book. But do you think that a dolphin is somehow symbolic of this book or publishing cycle?

A (17:11)

Hmm. I don't know. I mean, there is something very just joyful about dolphins. And I do just feel generally a sense of joy with this book and a sense of like, weirdly, freedom, I guess, but. But I. I don't know. I'm gonna choose to see it as a good omen. But my thing is sort of about. We would see the dolphins every morning. And of course at first it was like, wow, dolphins. And then it was like a hundred times a day they would, they would show up. I guess it's a winter thing. I haven't spent that much time in the Outer Banks in winter. And I kept thinking about. We've talked before on here about like small joys, you know, little joys. Going to get a Diet Coke in the McDonald's drive through. But then I was thinking about medium joys because I. I think a dolphin sighting is a good example. It's rare enough that it feels special and unique and every time it's like this burst of joy. But it's not so rare that it's like the only thing you talk about for weeks and end. Unless you're me, in which case, I guess I have been talking about dolphins a lot here, but. So I was wondering what are things that you would categorize in the medium joys? They're rare enough that it's bigger than just your everyday simple pleasure, but they're not so rare that it is, you know, something that takes over your entire day.

B (18:35)

Okay, so immediately as you were talking, I don't think this was the intent, but I think my equivalent to dolphin awe, I haven't seen many Dolphins in my life, so maybe I just haven't experienced it enough. Is seeing flamingos an animal that I feel an incredible attachment to? I've seen them in the wild twice and both times I've cried, gotten so emotional.

A (19:01)

That's so funny. Also not an easy animal to see in the wild. No, I think no. So you have to really seek that out.

B (19:09)

Quite, quite rare, but do travel in flocks, so when you see them, you usually see many of them. Okay. The other thing that is a medium joy for me living in New York City is whenever I'm somewhere outside of the city and I see a really beautiful starry night. Because of the light pollution here, you don't usually get to see stars. And so whenever I'm in Maine or just somewhere else and I see a really gorgeous starry night, I feel like that always fills me with a sense of awe.

A (19:42)

I agree.

B (19:43)

And then I would say the first day of a trip, being in a city that you've never been in before, or not necessarily a city, just a place that you've never been in before. And just having this sense of awe and gratitude that I get to travel and experience these new places. And you know, oftentimes I didn't travel a lot as a child. My mom was incredibly afraid of flying and so all of the trips we took were very local or I remember one time we took the train to Florida. Wow.

A (20:21)

Yeah.

B (20:22)

She flew a few times so it wasn't like a full non starter. But you know, we certainly didn't go on any international trips. And so, you know, oftentimes when I'm traveling internationally, it is places I'd read about or, you know, fantasized about or heard about in history class or something. And so to see a place in person, it just never gets old.

A (20:42)

Yeah, I agree with you. That first day of being somewhere and you've been through the flights or you've driven all day or whatever, just the realization you can just transport yourself somewhere else in the world. Obviously everyone knows that. But to experience it and to know, like last night I was in my own bed and tonight I am in this other place altogether. There's something so magical about that. You're right. It's like a total medium joy. Like it is accessible but it's still really special.

B (21:12)

What are some of your medium joys outside of dolphins?

A (21:16)

And I should clarify, I think dolphins are a medium joy for me because I've grown up on the east coast and so they're more available if you're in the Midwest or Something. A dolphin could definitely be a big joy. I'm not trying to diminish dolphins in any way. They are special. So I think one of them is the rare occasion when you see something online that you're just like, that is me. I love it so much. I need it in my life. An outfit or a dress or something. You order it, it arrives, you put it on, and it is exactly what you envisioned, like, immediately. You know that feeling when you put on a dress, you zip it up and you're like, yes, yes. This is how it's supposed to fit. It's perfect. I don't have to return it. I know what I'm gonna wear it with. And I think we've all had a lot of orders where it's like, yeah, this will work. This will be good. But rarely is it that moment of like, yes, this is the perfect exact thing. And that is such a high.

B (22:10)

That's a great thing. I do feel like that is somewhat diluted with the Internet experience versus finding something perfect in store. And I so rarely shop in store. But unearthing a treasure you weren't looking for, and you go in a fitting room and you try it on, and it's perfect. Oh, my gosh.

A (22:30)

Yes, I. I agree with you. It is. It is rare and beautiful. I think a rainbow. A rainbow always hits, you know, it's like every time, you know, I feel like that double rainbow person. And this is, I guess, more rare, but when we were in Hatteras, we saw a moon rise, which I had never seen before in my moon rise. So we were standing out, we turned off all the lights in the house. We stood out on the deck to look at the stars. And all of a sudden, on the horizon of the ocean, there was this glowing orb. And it was small at first, to the point where I thought it was like a boat was on fire or something, because it was like this orangey sort of glow. And then it got bigger and bigger, and it was, like, illuminating the clouds on the horizon. And I realized it was the moon. And so we saw it rise into the sky, like, just like a sunrise. And it was, like, sparkling off the water. It was so cool. That might be a big joy.

B (23:26)

The moon doesn't always rise because you know how sometimes when you see it's still light out, but you could also see the moon and it's already up in the sky. So is that just based on where you are on Earth or certain cycle of the moon?

A (23:42)

Yes, I think so. It's definitely not something that Happens all the time. And I have never seen that before, ever.

B (23:50)

Me either.

A (23:50)

So I think it was just we happened to hit the right day or the right location or both. I don't know. But it was so cool.

B (23:58)

Yeah.

A (23:59)

Coolest thing. And to realize that it was the moon slowly and not like a boat on fire, which, you know, that's always good. It was just so delightful. Like I was jumping up and down. I was so excited. So I would say that it's actually maybe a big joy. But similarly to yours, shooting stars, I think are always. Are always something special and unique.

B (24:19)

Even non shooting stars.

A (24:21)

Even just regular. Even just regular stars just sitting there. I agree. I agree. Yeah, those are. Those are a few of them for sure.

B (24:31)

What a great little reflection to do on a. It's Monday morning as we record this.

A (24:37)

Yeah, it's making me really happy. Okay, so I have not watched the people we Meet on vacation, but I did listen to a podcast review of it. So I feel like I have knowledge or some opinions of it. I don't know. I read it when it first came out. I haven't read it since. But I really am curious to know your. Your review, your thoughts as an Emily Henry super fan or big fan at least?

B (24:59)

No, I would call myself a super fan. I would call myself. I would call her my favorite author, I think.

A (25:05)

Okay, super fan indeed. What's the verdict?

B (25:07)

Yeah, my favorite author. Who, you know, there's. There's many authors that I love where I love one of their books or they've only had one or two books. But I feel like she is like, consistent, regularly publishing author. That is my favorite. I have pretty mixed feelings on the movie. I had a lot of fun watching it. I watched it on Friday night when it came out. I loved seeing all the different trips. I thought New Orleans was undoubtedly the highlight of the movie for me. There was this dance montage that they did. It had Such great early 2000s Rom com energy, but it was purposeful to the plot. It didn't feel random. And you could just feel their chemistry in that. And she was wearing this ice blue wig in it that she looked so great in. And also, I mean, her wardrobe was phenomenal throughout the movie, both being true to the character, but then also just in general. There is this movie where Poppy, the main character, goes to the dress rehearsal for this wedding and there's the reveal moment. She's wearing this chartreuse gown that felt so reminiscent to me of Kate Hudson's dress and how to Lose a guy in 10 days. Like, it was an iconic dress moment. And yeah, I found the film really fun. I enjoyed watching it. There was no point where I was like, I'm gonna turn this off. But I also found it a little lacking. And I've seen lots of people online loving it. So I also recognize that I might be too tough a critic. Like, my hopes were so high for this one. This is my favorite of Emily Henry's books. I've probably reread this book five times. Like, when I sat down and said, I want to learn how to write a book, this is the book I pulled off my shelf and read with a notebook to try to see how it was made. And I've reread it with every book I've written as inspiration of a book that I love. And I also have a chip on my shoulder about this book because it's a lot of people in the fandom's least favorite Emily Henry book. So, you know, I really wanted this to be special and capture what I love about the book to convince people. But okay, so where I'm landing on what I disliked about the movie, bear with me. I feel like the movie was like a salad with too much random stuff in it. None of it was bad, but you're like, why are there grapes in this salad? Also there's beans and corn.

A (27:44)

Oh, my gosh. You're like, it's grapes and beans.

B (27:48)

You're like, all of these things can go in a salad. I like these things. There's.

A (27:53)

There's too many elements.

B (27:54)

And why are they in this salad?

A (27:56)

Yes.

B (27:56)

So they made a lot of changes to the book. This is not an adaptation for the plot comparers. Like Heated Rivalry, Very faithful. This is like tons of changes, which obviously you need to do to compress a hundred thousand word book into an hour and 45 minute movie. And some of them made total sense of things they combined or things they cut out. But then there were also changes that were kind of like, didn't make a ton of sense. Like, the present timeline in the book takes place in Palm Springs, and in the movie it takes place in Barcelona. And outside of a few establishing shots of Barcelona, the movie has nothing to do with Barcelona. They don't eat tapas, they don't see any gaudy architecture. They don't go to the beach. Like, they just are in this apartment and go to a wedding and you see a couple exterior shots of Barcelona. Like, it was like a weird change to make.

A (28:53)

The review I listened to said that it could have been like Kansas City. It could have been anywhere.

B (28:58)

Totally. And in the book it was Palm Springs. And it was like, there's no reason that this couldn't have been Palm Springs. Unless. I don't know, the Barcelona tourism board paid them to have it set there. I don't. I don't know if they did.

A (29:10)

Could have done better showing off Barcelona, it seems. Yeah.

B (29:13)

And then they brought in a lot of elements from the book, but they didn't play them to their full effect. So in the book, a big plot point is that they are staying this shitty Airbnb in Palm Springs after the main couple are best friends who've had a falling out and haven't spoken in a few years. And they go on this trip together and they're staying in the world's shittiest Airbnb. That's nothing like the listing. There's only one bed and the AC isn't working, so it's like also physically uncomfortable. And then at another point, he throws his back out and it makes him have to be reliant on her in a way he wouldn't otherwise be. And in the movie, there's the AC isn't working thing, but he's not even staying there. The apartment's huge. Like, it didn't really do much. He throws out his back for about two minutes and then by the next morning he's going on a run. And it's just there were a lot of things that they added in. Like, that's the grapes in the salad where I was like, instead of putting grapes in this salad, I wish that they would have used some of that time to like, dive deeper into the emotional vulnerability in the book. Like, I think Alex, the male main character, really got the short end of the stick in the movie. Like, a lot of the emotional vulnerability gets compressed into this early scene, which is a new scene where they are on a road trip, they get stuck, they're in a motel room, and really quickly she talks about not fitting in in her hometown and he talks about his mother dying. But in the book, there's so much richness to their connection. Like, it almost feels like a non platonic version of Meredith Gray and Christina Yang where it's like, you're my person, you're the only person who gets me in this way. And you know all of my stuff. And in the movie, like, he's vaguely in grad school, he's vaguely a teacher. Like, he doesn't have anything outside of what we're really seeing in the movie. And it just lost so much of the connection like, we see them having fun together on the trips, but we don't see as much of the emotional vulnerability. And I think that would have made it so much stronger versus playing out these moments of like, the AC isn't working. He throwed his back. Like, I would have much rather have emotional moments, even if they were different from the book.

A (31:35)

Yeah. It seems like from what you're saying and what I heard, it didn't translate, like the emotional depth of the story and the connection into the movie. And instead it was sort of like, not hijinxy, but kind of like, I don't know, like, trying to put things in for laughs that didn't need to be there.

B (31:53)

Yeah. And. But I. I also saw a lot of people saying that they really liked this and they thought it was very fun and they thought that the. The rom com was back. So, you know, I think it. It maybe also depends on whether you read the book, whether you liked the book, what your expectations were. And I can't take that away from myself. I can't wave my magic wand and judge this piece of content as if I'd never read the book, which is one of my favorites. So, you know, I was always going to be a harsher critic of this.

A (32:22)

How would you say this compares to the other recent Netflix rom coms you've seen?

B (32:29)

I haven't watched a lot of the recent Netflix rom coms, to be honest with you. Like, I know there was a Christmas one where she was a sommelier, the.

A (32:36)

Lindsay Lohan Christmas ones, for example.

B (32:39)

I expect less of those, I think. And I really did expect more of this, I think. And maybe that's part of the challenge is my bar was higher, but I feel like we've had so many great adaptations, you know, heated rivalry. I don't want to compare the two. The summer I turned pretty Bridgerton, that I really wanted this to be a huge moment. And, you know, obviously one key difference is those were all series, those were all TV shows versus movies. And I've seen a lot of commentary about whether adapting romance works better as a TV show and that this should have been a miniseries. And I've gotta say I don't disagree. However, a few years ago when I was working on rom com pods, we were pitching those to be adapted to be developed into film or tv. There was not a more poisonous word in Hollywood than miniseries. Nobody wants to do a miniseries. And it is. And I don't know if this is still true. Maybe that's changed. But like, the things that are being made into Miniseries like a normal people is so the exception. And I don't know why it is. I mean, I think maybe it's just that you have, let's say at least 3 to 5x the production of a movie, so it probably costs more and then you have to put in marketing. But if it doesn't take off right away, there's not the ability to do a season two and to have that grow. It just like kind of is what it is. But producer studios did not want to make miniseries. Like, I don't think that was on the table. And I think standalone books are really hard to make into a show unless it's a universe. Like, I know the Rebel Blue Ranch books are being adapted and like, that's interconnected romances with like a different couple in each one, so there's just more fodder. But otherwise, if you just take a standard standalone romance and make it into a TV show, in order to get more seasons, you have to keep breaking the couple up or the tone of the show changes into something completely different. Because it's no longer about will the couple get together. It has to become about something else.

A (35:05)

Yeah. Wasn't heated rivalry supposed to be a miniseries? One season and now it's going to go longer, or was it always supposed to be more?

B (35:13)

I think that they developed it so that it could be a standalone miniseries because originally it was made by Crave, a very small Canadian TV network. I think they had very modest expectations for how it would do, and especially given that it was a gay story. I think they were like, we're lucky to be making this. It sounds like from interviews I've listened to, there were ideas on thoughts on what a second season could be. It's also based off of books, and there is a second book with these two characters and now not announced yet, but it's starting to show up on all the retailer sites. There's a third book coming, so, you know, there's definitely source material from it, but I think they thought that they would not get the opportunity to do it.

A (36:00)

Well, just goes to show you, maybe miniseries are the way to go and then build.

B (36:06)

I know. I. I wish there was more enthusiasm for miniseries. I want to do a newsletter interview. I have an idea of who I want to ask with, like a producer slash writer involved in book adaptations to see how they feel about the state of adapting books. Because, you know, I think if you just from my side, outside of Hollywood, if you looked at heated rivalry, if you looked at people we meet on vacation, there's the project Hail Mary adaptation coming in March, I would be like, it is a great time to be adapting books, but I also know at the same time that everyone in Hollywood is out of work right now. Like, it's a really bummer time for writers, for anyone in, you know, production. So I don't know that my excitement as a fan around these necessarily correlates to the feelings inside the industry of people working on it day to day.

A (36:58)

Well, I'd love to read that interview. I'd be very curious to know.

B (37:01)

Same. And you know, the other thing is I cover adaptation news in my monthly book report series and there are so many books that are getting optioned or getting developed, but then we never see them. So there's also like the ratio of starts to finishes in book adaptations. It's so rare.

A (37:23)

Yeah, that's the thing with options adaptations that everyone hears with books is that they pretty rarely ever actually come to fruition.

B (37:31)

Yeah, like everyone says, until you actually see it on a screen, don't count your chickens.

A (37:37)

So, yeah, well, let's take another ad break and then get into some more things. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. A lot of people, including myself, feel pressure at the start of a new year to change everything about themselves. But sometimes the best thing we can all do is to simply eliminate stressors and burdens that are stopping us from appreciating the good stuff that already exists about ourselves. And trust me, there is tons to appreciate once you push away some of the stress or anxiety that's preventing you from noticing all of it. And therapy can help you do that.

B (38:15)

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B (38:50)

Olivia, what have you brought for your second thing?

A (38:53)

My second thing is I want to talk about book events. I'm getting really excited for my upcoming tour, which is. I finally got to announce it last week and all of the stops pretty much are listed on my website. If you want to stop by, you can come hang out with Becca and I in New York.

B (39:12)

So excited for that.

A (39:13)

I am too. I'm really looking forward to it. I've never Done an event at the Strand. So I am excited. I want to know what are some of the most memorable book events, author events you've been to, and what it was about them that really made them fun or interesting or really impacted you? I want to know all about it.

B (39:37)

I mean, I think my feeling and excitement towards the author always makes it more special, you know, especially if it's somebody I've been following for many years and I finally see them speak in person and they're a real person right in front of me. That's so exciting. I mean, I think about the event I went to recently for Lily King for Heart the Lover, and she was in conversation with Anne Napolitano and she's an author that I've been reading for, meaning Lily King, for so many years. And I'd never gone to one of her events before and seeing her talk about it. And she also had a lot of great, juicy behind the scenes. And that book, Heart the Lover, I think is actually a really challenging book to talk about because it's told in three parts and part two and three are almost by definition spoilers. And so you can really only talk about vaguely what this book is about. And she did it in a really interesting way. And she also managed to give some tea. I think I shared in the episode that we did where she talked about a major change that she made to the book with 12 days before she had to turn it in. And so I love that type of like, juicy, behind the scenes stuff that I wouldn't know just from reading a book. I also, I think that the conversation partner makes a lot of difference. I think either when it's a really interesting pairing of people. Like, I think of Lily King and Anna Politano as like such esteemed writers, such peers that you're like, oh, of course I want to see you two talk. But like, I love when it's two people who clearly have a relationship outside of this event, who are friends or have some type of history. I think that's always really fun to see how they play off of each other. I don't know. I rarely go to a book event and leave disappointed, to tell you the truth. Like, I think going to an author event, I always feel so glad I did it and I always feel like it adds richness to the experience of reading the book or having read the book.

A (41:38)

Yeah, I totally agree with you and I'm the same way. Like, if it's authors that I love and admire, it's extra exciting. But honestly, sometimes the events that I go to where I have. I've never read the author or I have no reference for them are sometimes the most surprisingly engaging and inspiring. And I love discovering new authors in that way. Like, I rarely think, not that I've done a million events, but I don't know about you, but when you've done events, I always just assume everyone in there has known me already. Like, I never assume there's just a new person there. You know, like discovering me, even though I hopefully there are. But going to events where I don't know the author reminds me that, like, yes, sometimes this is how people discover new authors. And that's exciting too.

B (42:27)

What are you excited about or nervous about with your own events for little one, or is there anything unique that you want to do or bring in that you haven't before?

A (42:40)

I'm nervous about, like, the newer venues. So for Chicago, for such a bad influencer, such great turnout, that I wanted to work with the same bookstore but get a bigger venue so we could meet more people, talk to more people. So we did that. But then I'm imagining myself in like a cavernous room with 10 people or something. So that's always a fear.

B (43:01)

I think people in Chicago show up is my experience.

A (43:05)

Yeah, that. I mean, having done the first event, that's kind of. Of what I think too. But any place where I don't have any network is scary. But sure, LA is almost sold out. And that shocked me. I don't know anyone I've ever been there, so that's all things to bounce.

B (43:19)

You've never been to LA?

A (43:21)

Never.

B (43:22)

Wow.

A (43:23)

It's going to be a fun 24 hours. I'm excited. Like, I've just been in. You can relate to this too. Like, I just been in work mode for so long, you know, just like promo, promo, promo. And so in a lot of ways, TOR almost feels more like the celebration part of it than actually publishing the book. It's hard to, I guess, put into words, but I always love attending events, the Q and A portion, because I feel like readers come up with the best questions and it's always like a little bit of a surprise. Like there's always a little bit of excitement and nerves in the air because what are they going to ask? And it's. It's always interesting, it's always unexpected. Sometimes it's personal. I almost sometimes think about book events. Like, I kind of wish it was just all audience Q and A because I just. I love that part as an attendee so much.

B (44:15)

Do you get nervous before Events?

A (44:18)

Yes. Okay. Yes, I do. I do get nervous, but I don't know. I think it goes away pretty quickly. You don't strike me as someone who gets nervous at all, but do you?

B (44:30)

I only did a couple of events. I only did two events for the Christmas Orphans Club, and I was very nervous before both of them. I do a fair amount of moderating events or being a conversation partner for events, and I don't get nervous for other people's events, although I take it incredibly seriously. Like, I always want to make sure I've read the book. I always try to have, like, very thoughtful questions. Like, I want to take the same care with it that I would hope somebody would take if they were in conversation for one of my events. So I take it very seriously. My extroverted personality. I love helping to host events for other people.

A (45:07)

There is something about moderating an event that is so nice because you can experience the excitement that the other person is experiencing in a way, but not the nerves, like you said. So you can just kind of relax and know that no one is really looking at you that much. You know, it's all about the other person. Oh. I was going to ask you. When you signed copies of the Christmas Orphans Club, you had a signature inscription. Is that the word for it? Dedication.

B (45:34)

I wrote welcome to the club and all of them. And then I did, like, exo and I signed my name.

A (45:40)

Are you going to have one?

B (45:42)

I don't know. I feel like I like taking the care to write more than just my name, but I don't know what it would be for the second book. I haven't come up with it yet.

A (45:52)

It's tough. I didn't even do one for such a bad influence, and I don't think I can do one for a little one. But I do like it. It's kind of fun. Are you sticking with the same Sharpie color?

B (46:02)

No, I think I'll change it. The hot pink ones were also very hard to find. I liked the hot pink because I thought it was just a fun color, but I remember having to really dig on Amazon to find the neon line. So I think I'll maybe just go with a. A different color.

A (46:18)

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

B (46:20)

This all feels very far away, so I haven't.

A (46:22)

It'll be here before you know it.

B (46:24)

Ooh. Oof. I feel like I'm in the burying my head in the sand phase, where I have finished the book, which is great. So it's the load off my shoulders, but I don't yet have to worry about its reception because, you know, there's no arcs yet. It's not a netgalley, like, nobody can read it. So it's just like existing in this bubble.

A (46:43)

It is a nice phase because it's just. It's quiet and rewarding and relaxing. But there's good parts coming. And one of those for me is to see what Sharpie color you choose, because I'm delighted by it.

B (46:57)

We'll see. We'll see. Do you have a special pen or Sharpie that you're signing books with?

A (47:03)

No, I usually just do a black Sharpie. I tend to push down really hard, so the fine tip ones get really thick and weird. So I maybe I just need to have like a bigger supply of them.

B (47:15)

Okay.

A (47:16)

You know. Okay. But. But yeah, that's. That's all I've got. Well, what's your next thing?

B (47:23)

Okay, my final thing. I don't know if this is debated or controversial, but I do have a question about it in my head. When you move, do you bring your condiments with you, or do you declare condiment bankruptcy and start fresh?

A (47:39)

Oh, this is a good. This is a good topic. Well, I don't know if there's a hard and fast rule here, but I recall bringing like, a bag of food, which I'm sure had condiments. And I think it's because even when.

B (47:53)

You moved from Philly to New York, you moved across state lines and you brought. Okay, what was the criteria? Because they were like, rare, high value condiments?

A (48:05)

No, I think probably if they were mostly full, because I really hate wasting food.

B (48:09)

Okay.

A (48:09)

And I would guess that I was stressed about money and for some reason being like, well, I don't have to pay $2 for a new mustard. Right. If I bring. This is, you know, a false illusion of control or saving money. But yeah, I think that's probably what I did. It was probably like one cooler bag of, like, the stuff in the fridge that I felt wasteful throwing out. Okay. And that was easy enough because, you know, when you're moving, when you have movers, it's kind of like you just put, you know, random things here and there in your own car. So I could have just thrown that in with the plants or whatever. Do you have a plan for this? Do you have a strategy in mind?

B (48:49)

Kind of. So I'm declaring freezer bankruptcy. I'm getting rid of everything in the freezer. There's a lot that's been sitting in there. I'm gonna, like, try to Eat as much as I can from my freezer. That is good. But then there's also like a lot of random frozen ground beef that I'm like, how old is this? Like, let's just get rid of this fridge wise. I think I'm going to. And again, I don't have a car, so it's like, how much of a hassle will this be? Like, I guess I could just like really clearly label the box and plan to unpack it first. But like, that's a factor. My friend Jenna has a car and I think, you know, maybe if she is kind enough and I think she will be taking over a few trips of things that are either like weird shaped or that I want to have right away or I don't want to deal with packing and unpacking. And so, you know, maybe a fridge box. I want to take a moment to do an edit of my condiments. Like for instance, I've lived in this apartment for six years. I don't use a lot of ketchup. Have I bought ketchup multiple times living here? I don't know, you know, like that I'm like, we don't need to bring the ketchup. But I feel like there's, you know, there's this hot sauce that I really like, the pepper plant hot sauce that I have to buy on Amazon because I can't get it in stores here. And you know, like, I have an open bottle of that. I'm totally going to take that with me. But you know, there's also like a lot of condiments that I think I use really rarely that I'm like, how long has this been sitting here? So I think the answer is I'll maybe bring like half of the condiments.

A (50:24)

I feel like that's a good, a good strategy. But of course, you know, the second you throw something out, like the first week you're going to be like, oh, where's the ketchup?

B (50:32)

Oh, of course, of course. We'll see. That's my plan right now. And then, you know, I think anything in the fridge, like if I have like an open carton of half and half, I'm not going to bring that. Like, yeah, we'll just buy. Makes sense new. Like I'm not going to transport my whole fridge.

A (50:50)

Yes. Yeah.

B (50:51)

And I think this would be different if I had a car. I lived in a car city.

A (50:55)

Yes, that is very true. Because like I said, it's easier just to be like, oh, I'll throw this bag of things yeah, but when we moved, we didn't pack. We packed the coffee maker, but we didn't pack mugs. And so I have this really vivid memory the first morning we woke up here of having to go out into town. No, we did, but, like, the mover. We got here, like, a day before the movers, maybe.

B (51:15)

Oh, okay. Okay.

A (51:16)

And so we woke up in this house on an air mattress with no coffee mugs. And I was like, this is the dumbest thing I ever did. So I feel like as long as you have whatever you're gonna need for those first few days of the most chaotic time of moving, like when you're like, I just need coffee. And maybe ketchup. Maybe ketchup is important to you. I don't know. Clearly not.

B (51:40)

No, but ketchup hot sauce is not important to me.

A (51:43)

As long as you've identified the things you need to feel some semblance of a routine. And at home, I think that's all that matters. The rest you can figure out. Like, you can get whatever special sauce you need later.

B (51:56)

Yeah. Yeah. Somebody on a newsletter had a comment where they suggested packing a box that was specifically. Open this first with toilet paper, with sheets, with paper towels, with, like, now I'm just adding to this list, but, like, the WiFi router with all of the stuff that you need immediately. And I thought that was such a good idea to. Even though it's like, a random box, put all that. Like, coffee. Like, put all that stuff in one box so that you don't have to go through 8 million boxes to try to find all the stuff. You need to take a shower, go to sleep, pee, you know, all of.

A (52:35)

The things that you also, like scissors for opening the other boxes. Always useful.

B (52:42)

Yeah, that's a good call. That's a good call.

A (52:45)

Or a box cutter, whatever.

B (52:46)

All right, Olivia, what is your final thing?

A (52:49)

My final thing is, I think, a thing that we discuss every January, or at least I bring up, which is our mood boards for the year. I know you make one and you keep it as your background. I'm not ever done with talking about goals. I don't think you are either. I think it's something we share a deep love for. I made a little mood board collage thing on Pinterest too, because they have a new collage function, at least new to me.

B (53:14)

I've seen that I. I couldn't figure out how to use.

A (53:17)

Took me a little bit of trial and error, but it was kind of fun to mess around with while I was, like, just Watching some mindless TV or something. But yeah, I want to know what you're looking at. Every day is like your guiding light for the year.

B (53:30)

Yeah, I made mine. I shared it behind the paywall on my newsletter. I didn't share it on Instagram this year. I felt, I don't know, I. I felt a little too vulnerable. The centerpiece of it is I put a lot of like, quotes on mine or like, inspirational advice type things, which I know can be cheesy and I would roll my eyes if it wasn't me. But the centerpiece of it is this one that says confidence comes from trusting your ability, not knowing everything. And I feel like, especially maybe in 2024 and some parts of 2025, I didn't feel like I trusted myself and my ability. And so I just really want to remember that, that trusting myself as opposed to like having the answer. I also have one on here that says, remember when you wanted what you currently have, which feels very important.

A (54:27)

Yeah, that's a huge one.

B (54:29)

You know, there's some writing book type things. There's a woman at a book signing who looks really happy to be signing books. There's some art ones of like people painting. There's a dinner party. There's one quote that says, this year I'm going to be a joyful little maniac about creating a life I love. That's all I know. And I like that. There's a mahjong picture I always want to channel. There's some that correspond to trips that I'm taking this year. Yeah. What's on yours?

A (55:06)

First of all, I love all of those. And it's weird, the first one you mentioned was about confidence because my other idea for this thing was to ask you when you feel the most confident. So it kind of plays into that, I guess it's kind of did two things in one.

B (55:20)

I don't know the answer to that, though. I don't know when I feel most confident.

A (55:23)

So you're trying to learn that? Not necessarily.

B (55:26)

Yeah.

A (55:27)

You like, you feel that yet? Okay, yeah.

B (55:30)

Or like center that. I think that I came into my 30s feeling much more confident. Some of it being unearned or just like lack of self awareness or not having been tested. And I feel like I'm coming out of my 30s, much less confident. I think some of that also has to do with like becoming a more public person and putting myself on the Internet for people to have opinions. And, you know, everyone says your 40s is like, you stop giving a fuck what people think and you feel more true to yourself. And I'm hoping that's true, because I definitely think my 30s were much more anxious and much less confident than my 20s. But I think that that could be said for. For many people. I think, like, culturally, politically, like, the years that overlapped with my 30s were just like, more anxious times, too.

A (56:21)

And you also made a huge career pivot. You know, it's like, you are very successful, and you're like, I'm actually going to also be successful, but doing this other thing. And that takes an adjustment, I think.

B (56:33)

Yeah, I don't necessarily feel stable with my writing career yet. Like, I don't know. Like, there's one. One book could be a fluke. Hopefully people like this. Hopefully I get to do it again. I haven't sold a third book yet, so, you know, it also feels like, slightly precarious always.

A (56:50)

Yeah. I do wonder if that ever goes away at all. No matter how many books in you are. I'm not sure.

B (56:58)

I think so. I think, you know, in my head at least, you know, maybe when you get to book four or five, you're like, I can do this. Even if, you know, I write a book, it doesn't sell. Even if I write a book and people don't like it, like, I will keep doing this and give this another try if then you write three more books that don't, you know, maybe you need to rethink that. But I do think at some point you're like, I know that I have this skill.

A (57:20)

Yes, definitely the skills to keep going and pursuing it again, no matter what, as you said.

B (57:26)

Yeah. Okay. What about you? What is on your vision board and. Or when do you feel most confident?

A (57:33)

Well, I think something I've been thinking about a lot lately is. Or learning, I guess, is that I get a lot of confidence out of having a vision for something and then doing it and the completion of that, regardless of the reception. So, like, I think the interview in Hatteras is a great example. Like, for years, I just always thought about driving, like, taking the time to reach out to this bookstore, who's. Bookstore owner, who's owned it for 40 years, and sitting down with her and understanding her story and, like, what her life is like on this, you know, in this very small, specific piece of the world, and, like, how if she feels the magic of the story like I do, and even just the act of doing it, of just doing it, making it happen is like, makes me feel more confident than any any other thing has felt. And same with writing a book. As you like, as you know, just the fact of having an idea and seeing it through is so rewarding and makes me feel so confident and fulfilled and strong and like myself or the reading and writing retreat. Like all the things just creatively, I think just seeing something through has made me feel more confident. So I want to remember that doing.

B (58:43)

What you say you're going to do. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that completely.

A (58:47)

Let's see, on my collage, I mean, it's really just a smattering of pictures. It's funny, like I tried to look for a picture of someone signing books and as I cropped it, it kind of looks like someone journaling, which is. Which is probably some sort of metaphor for something about what I should actually focus on. But I have that. I have a stack of papers, it's like a printed manuscript to represent book three. I have a lot of images of women just laying in fields, floating in the ocean, staring at the sky with their eyes closed and sun on their face. Which is I guess my way of just wanting to prioritize, just being quiet and still and appreciating nature. I have some dumbbells to represent my strength training reading in front of a fire. I have a dinner scene, which I again, it cropped it, but the whole point of it was that there are people laughing in it. So just really being present with friends. And then I have some photos of kitchens I like and stair runners I like and things like that. But very, very simple.

B (59:49)

And where do you have this? Is this your phone background? Is this just like in your camera roll?

A (59:55)

It's just on Pinterest. Yeah. No, I haven't put it anywhere. I guess I could make it my background. I'd like to add some quotes like you have too. So maybe I'll. I'll add some little quotes, make it my background copy you.

B (60:07)

I don't think I invented this. It's yours to take.

A (60:10)

Well, whatever. I like the idea a lot, so. So yeah. Oh, and I also have one that has like a TV and it says read instead on the front of it. And that's always a goal for me is to. To read more in my day to day life that I'm watching mindless tv. So yeah, all of that just simple.

B (60:30)

Now, do you do a word of the year or anything? I've heard a lot of people talk about doing a word.

A (60:36)

I don't do a word. I guess the closest I get is just having certain phrases and words in mind for each book and for the publication process as I've talked about on here. I never really do a word for the year, do you?

B (60:49)

No, I haven't in the past. I keep coming back to two words I keep thinking about, but I don't know that I want to go so far as making them. My word of the year are joyful and gratitude.

A (61:03)

Good words. Yeah.

B (61:05)

But they almost feel, like, a little too generic, you know, it's like. Yeah, it's almost like making your word of the year fun. And it's like, well, of course. Who doesn't want to have fun?

A (61:17)

Yeah. But, you know, you know, the specific ins and outs of why that word matters to you, you know, and the specific scenarios where you want it to be more present. So maybe on the surface, but I think each of us, you know, when I pick a word or a phrase for books, like, there are certain very definite things that I'm thinking of. Not necessarily just like, oh, I want to just be more fun, you know, or I want to be more thankful or more confident. Yeah, but. Yeah, I see what you mean. People get really interesting with what they choose. I would love to hear other people's for the year in the Facebook group, if people have them.

B (61:54)

I listened to this podcast called Happier in Hollywood, and they are both screenwriters, like TV writers, and they always pick a team theme or, like a team symbol. And this year it's a. I can't remember if it's like a hornet or a killer bee or something of that, which I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And they usually try to buy, like, a piece of jewelry with that symbolism on it, and it means something. And I don't know, like, I think that's very cool if. I mean, if that were you right now, I would suggest a dolphin, maybe just based on how many times they've come up for you this year, but maybe I love hearing about how people approach intentions and the beginning of the year and what they want to bring with them and how they, like, keep that present for themselves.

A (62:41)

Me too. The dolphin idea is actually great because there's something about just, like, the joy of seeing that dolphin. And like, every time, no matter how many times I had seen it, I was just, like, equally as excited. And I would love to bring that energy into everything. And I. I don't always have it, so maybe I will get. Should I get a tattoo of a dolphin? Is that where this is going? I don't know.

B (63:03)

So this is so funny because talking about dolphins always reminds me of my friend Lydia, and I don't think she would mind me sharing this story, but when she was a teenager, when she was like 16, she so badly wanted to get a dolphin tattoo of like three dolphins around her belly button was like the only thing she wanted. And now as an adult she's like, thank God I didn't get that. Like, I cannot imagine, like, would my life be meaningfully different if I had gotten this dolphin belly button tattoo?

A (63:36)

Maybe, but I don't know in the.

B (63:38)

In a good way.

A (63:41)

That would be an interesting choice. Yeah.

B (63:43)

A dolphin tattoo just always makes me think of her belly button tattoo. That wasn't, that's.

A (63:49)

I don't know who prevented that from happening, but they really had her best, her mom's interest in mind. It's such a specific spot too. It's like it's not your ankle, your back, your ribs. It's like right there. Yeah.

B (64:03)

Oh man. Well, should we take one last ad break and then get into some end matters?

A (64:07)

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B (64:54)

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A (65:32)

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B (65:54)

Well, let's get into some end matter. What are you obsessed with this week.

A (65:59)

I am obsessed with sumo oranges, which I can't get enough of. I had one every single day that we were at the beach. I would eat more than one a day if that was normal or my body could handle that sort of acid level. I think they're the best fruit in the entire world.

B (66:15)

I feel like I went through a similar phase last year with clementines.

A (66:19)

Those are good too, but I feel like a sumo. Have you had a sumo? I have.

B (66:24)

I prefer a smaller orange.

A (66:25)

It's pretty large.

B (66:26)

It is a snacking orange, if you will.

A (66:29)

It's gigantic. I do like clementines.

B (66:31)

I want to have four of them.

A (66:33)

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I respect that. Well, what are you obsessed with?

B (66:38)

I am obsessed with these long sleeve layering T shirts that I bought two of from Everlane on Black Friday and I've been wearing them so much. It's their luxe rib long sleeve crew. And these are just so good on a really, really cold day to layer under a sweater or under anything. And then I really like the way they look like. I think the shirt in and of itself, if you get hot and take off the sweater looks really nice as well. And I've just been obsessed with these. I'm thinking about buying a couple more, but every time they've had a sale recently, they've been excluded. So I don't think that I'm the only one who loves them.

A (67:18)

Sounds like a great find, truly.

B (67:21)

What about on the reading front? What have you been reading this week?

A (67:24)

So I read Habits of the Sea by Shea Ernshaw, and I read her first adult novel back in 2021, and that was called the History of Wild Places, I loved it. It was a cult themed novel. I thought about it a lot and I loved that novel. And so when I saw her announce this one and I saw the COVID which is just one of my absolute favorite covers for 2026 books. It is so beautiful.

B (67:51)

It looks very you. This reminds me of Isola. I feel like the COVID is giving. You're in such an at sea phase.

A (67:58)

I know. I really, I. I am thinking about the ocean at all times lately and in general. And when I saw the COVID and the title and then the premise, I was like, I need to read this as soon as humanly possible. So I got an advanced copy and I read it when I was away. And the premise of this is a girl wakes up one day in the middle of the night in Nova Scotia and she looks out her window and an island has appeared that Wasn't there before. So she sneaks out of the house, she visits the island, and on it is this man, this Scottish man named Clay, who she sort of just hangs out with for a night. But when she gets back, they tell her that she's actually been gone a week. And this incident kind of follows through throughout her life. And, you know, it's this idea of like, it felt so real to her, but everyone thinks it's just a lucid dream. So when she gets older, she ends up going back to where she grew up and the island appears again. She swims out to it and she finds the man again. Except this time he's the exact same age. He hasn't aged at all. And a love story of sorts unfolds. And I think the love story part of it, though, I welcome a romance. I really do. My issue with this is that I was just expecting something very dark, very moody. And though it is moody, it's definitely more of like a straight romantic drama, I think, than anything else. It's very Outlander, except instead of historical elements, maybe like call it magical realism or a little bit of sci fi maybe. But it definitely does have this sort of magical quality to it. And there are some romantic scenes that are really, really beautiful. And everything about it, like the cottage on the island and the island is floating around the world and there's this weird, warped sense of time. Then there's this relationship is really fun, but I just wanted it to be darker. But if you like romance and if you like sort of like dramatic romance instead of a rom com, I think it's worth checking out for sure.

B (70:07)

I think this wound up in the wrong person's pile because this sounds right up my alley. The description you gave is reminding me a lot of the Night Circus, which is one of my all time favorite books about, you know, a mysterious presence popping up and this like, moody love story. Oh my gosh, I'm requesting this on Netgalley right now.

A (70:28)

Yes, there is a very magical, whimsical, cozy. There's lots of rain, lots of wind, candles everywhere, quilts on a old bed in an old cottage. So if any of those things sound like you definitely suggest picking this one up. It comes out in July, you will have to wait a while. But it is best enjoyed while by a body of water, I can confirm. Okay, well, what did you read?

B (70:55)

Okay, so my first book of the year set a very high bar. I read the Heir Apparent by Rebecca Armitage, which was Reese's Book Club pick for December. And I Nearly missed this one because I judged the book by the COVID and I thought that the COVID read a little Princess Sparkle, Girl power. And I did not think it was what I wanted. But then I saw Sarah Jacobson, who writes the Big Feelings newsletter, talk about reading this, and she compared it to the Royal we, which is another all time favorite book. So I was very intrigued. And I think this book got the wrong cover. The COVID feels so juvenile, but the book has a lot of depth. It's about a British princess who is living off the grid in Australia, training to become a doctor. And New Year's Day, she's on this camping trip. She's about to kiss her crush, and all of a sudden a helicopter comes down from the sky and an emissary informs her that her father and brother have died in an accident and he must escort her back to London because she has now become next in line for the throne. Her grandmother is the queen. And there's a lot of fun elements to it. You know, there's a lot of fashion and, like, royal real estate and this romance B plot with her crush in Australia. But then there's a lot of depth to it as well. You know, it talks a lot about the darker side of the tabloid industrial complex. Her mother was a character with kind of a tragic backstory, very akin to Princess Diana. It also deals quite a bit with Britain's legacy of colonialism. And so if you're thinking of royal books on a spectrum where the Royal we, which is very fun, and capery, is on the left side side, and then the much darker, much more serious, the force of such beauty is on the right side. This, to me, felt squarely in the middle. And I enjoyed this so much. I really, really liked it. And I feel like other people might be missing out on it because of the COVID too.

A (73:15)

This sounds great. I've really seen it around a bunch and, you know, it's good enough for Reese Witherspoon. It's probably good enough for me.

B (73:22)

Yeah. Apparently you're in your AT C phase and I'm in my fake royals phase.

A (73:27)

We need to find a book that combines the two fake royals at sea. Yeah, someone write it. Get on that.

B (73:33)

And then I also read Last Night in Brooklyn by Sochil Gonzalez, which is out April 21st. And this is set in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, in 2007, kind of in the lead up to the financial crash. It's about two women who are both born in Brooklyn. One of them is in her late 20s, and she's kind of trying to Figure her life out. She's engaged. She's not sure if she wants to stay in the relationship. She's just gotten her first big job and she falls in with this crew of people in the neighborhood that just kind of like blow open her life, her horizons, and then gets introduced to this other woman who it follows, who it sets her on a path with this up and coming fashion designer who has what appears from the outside to be this very glitzy life. And the book is very much about gentrification and it's very fun. I'm trying to figure out how to pitch this without spoiling anything, but I enjoyed this a tremendous amount. And I think I specifically enjoyed it because of the specificity of the setting. And I'm very curious to see how this works for other readers who do not live in Brooklyn and do not have as much familiarity with the neighborhood. I mean, to be clear, it's set in 2007. I was in college in 2007, so I didn't live here. But now I know kind of the landmarks that the book is talking about. But I enjoyed this tremendously.

A (75:00)

That sounds great. I have been seeing this one everywhere as well. It's getting so much buzz.

B (75:04)

Yeah, I'm really excited for it. It's also, for the most part, a very fun book, which I feel like, I don't know, I feel like we're in a very sad girl lit phase. So this felt like a great antidote to that. But if none of those appeal to you or you just can't get your hands on them yet, which I understand is frustrating. We do have our January book club pick, which is Best Offer Wins by Marisa Cascino. And this is about a woman living in D.C. who is trying to get pregnant and trying to buy a home with her husband. And neither of those things is going very well. And she gets a tip about a house that's about to go on the market that she decides is her dream house. And she goes to increasingly intense and illegal measures to get this house. This was so unique because it's a real estate thriller. I felt like it was fully Scaredy Cat approved. I couldn't stop turning the pages. So if you feel like you've maybe gotten out of the habit of reading and you're looking for something that reads really quickly, I think this is totally going to be it for you. I've seen a lot of people talking in the BFF group and just on the Internet in general about how pacey and gripping they found this. I can't wait to discuss this the last Wednesday of the month.

A (76:18)

I'm so excited for this. And if you would like to discuss any of the things we talked about today, you can join us in the Facebook group, which is under Bound On Paper Podcast. You can also find us in the BFF group formerly known as Geneva that is linked in the show notes. That's under Bow Paper Podcast. We're also on Instagram at On Paper Podcast. I am on Instagram and substack Olivia Mentor, if you would like to pre order my novel Little One, you can do that. All the places, all the ways we are in the final stretch. So I would really, really appreciate your support. And if you'd like to see me on tour, you can find all those dates on my website, which we'll link in the show notes. And if you'd like to see Becca and I together, we're doing an event at the Strand on February 6th and tickets are running low, so grab those while you can.

B (77:04)

Oh my gosh, I can't wait. Definitely make sure you have Little One pre ordered. As everyone knows, I'm a scaredy cat. Thrillers aren't my home base genre, but I loved this book. I absolutely devoured it. I couldn't put it down and I don't think we've said this yet, but it bears repeating. It's going to be our February book club pick. So make sure you're ready with your copy to discuss. As far as finding me on the Internet goes, I am on Instagram ecamfreeman. I'm apparently also on threads talking about heated rivalry ecamfreeman and my newsletter is@beccafreeman.substack.com and we'll see you next week.

A (77:42)

Bye Bye.